Thread 717488684

Why was this series forgotten?

Nomura's autism takes too long to manifest and is so complicated devs need to delay for years at a time.

>>717488684 (OP)
Took too long to release KH3, games after KH2 were made for portable consoles, KH4 is vaporwave.

Because they don't make any fucking games

>>717488684 (OP)
Because it honestly deserves to be forgotten
Kingdom Hearts was always mediocre, but since it was Baby's First Action RPG for many people, they have pair bonded with the series.

>>717488684 (OP)
Whole trilogy should have been on PS2.

>>717488684 (OP)
>Had to wait 7 years for KH3
>KH3 just ends up being mostly buildup for KH4 with teasing that started around 7 years ago
>6 years later and still nothing
That's 13 years of building up towards KH4 and we still don't have KH4, and that's about 56% of the series' lifespan at this point. At least One Piece gives you content to be entertained over.

>>717488684 (OP)
KH3 was a disappointing mess that somehow managed to shit on every single story arc they created with the various spin-offs.
Why the FUCK would you make a game where 95% of the actual story happens in the LAST LEVEL, NOMURA WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING

Everything after 2 was a mistake.

>>717488684 (OP)
Cause i played the first one in my early teens and now im fucking 34

>>717488684 (OP)
square enix and disney nosedived in quality since then

>>717488757
>KH4 is vaporwave
KH2 and DDD already had Tron

Because nomura ruined it after the very first one but made it unredeemable with bbs

>>717490621
Still the best world. Coded should've just been a Tron game imo.

>>717488757
>KH4 is vaporwave.
TGS revival trust the plan

>>717490754
Tron is such a cool setting, too bad the new one will probably suck + takes place on the real world

The story became so confusing and convoluted right as they were pumping out spinoff after spinoff.
Nobody gives a fuck anymore, and the idea of this FFxDisney multiverse is tired and old by this point.

>>717490898
Tron really just gets worse with each movie. Tron 2 was a generic snooze fest and sapped the grid of all of its color and atmosphere.

>>717490047
KH2 was late 2005. KH3 was 2019. It's more like 13 years, and now it's been 6 and I'll we've seen is a teaser and some screenshots.

This franchise absolute died with KH2, SE doesn't know how to do anything right.

>>717488684 (OP)
Ask Square they're the ones who announce games too early

>>717488684 (OP)
it's THE essential millennial core video game franchise alongside FF and those people are now pushing 40. the scope and the trends of the industry have changed so much since it was big that it has inevitably been left behind. just like most IPs that were popular in the early 2000s it is a victim of the passage of time- not all media can be an evergreen behemoth like Pokemon or Call of Duty. in 20 years time we will look back at the souls like craze in a similar manner.

>>717491112
People memes about KH3 taking too long, but it was just retarded people dismissing games as being spinoffs when they weren't. BBS was highly story relevant, and even DDD has more exposition towards the main plot than KH3 did. KH4 is the actual problem child with all of these teasers that started 13 years ago, and having nothing to tide us over. It's a complete joke.

>>717491573
Maybe they should've made them more convincing as standalone games then, or better emphasize their importance to the overall plot? The only retarded party here is SE. They crashed and burned an IP with great potential.

>>717492763
I'll continue to believe that fans who ignore games and don't even get curious about them after waiting for 14 years deserve their suffering. No remorse for those who didn't know what the fuck was going on in KH3 if they were there from the start.

I trust Nomura-san.

>>717491573
>Had to own a PSP and a 3DS just to get plot relevant information
Even fucking Chain of Memories was pretty much integral and that was on the GBA

I dont think 3 is bad, but the spinoffs before it should have never existed.
It should have been a KH1-->KH2--->KH3.

>>717493323
They already killed that simple progression after the first game by doing Chain of memories.

>>717493312
That was the excuse before, but you had 1.5 + 2.5 leading up to KH3.

>>717493456
>Had to buy two sperate games at full price and force yourself through shitty spinoffs just to understand the story
Thanks, Nomura

>important lore in a shitty mobile game
gee i wonder why

anything after 2 (read: 2, not 2FM) is irrelevant.

>>717493651
It's even worse because the important lore is always in the shitiest of games.
They don't even play like the original kingdom hearts yet they are still required play because of the stupid lore so you understand 3.
It's fucking insane.
Like if you are going to do lore in other games the least you can do is make them play at least resembling kingdom hearts not this shit.

>>717493595
KH really should've been an anime. At least in that case you could ignore the terrible Disney world nonsense as filler and skip it, and you wouldn't have to wait years for more of the actual story.

I liked Days

>most of the KH4 is going to rely on a mobile game you can't even download any longer
Thanks Nomura

>>717493813
It would've easily been the best game in the series if not for the gameplay

>>717493856
Missing Link was supposed to fill that gap right? Now that's dead too. Not sure wtf Square is thinking anymore.

>>717494029
They could outsource it with an anime adaptation but hurr durr we gotta tell it through a mobile game that will get shutdown like UX did.

When is KH4 releasing?

KH4
>Replaced the villain from KH1-3 with comic relief Marvel quipping mobile gacha character who appeared in 2 cutscenes in the actual games for 6 minutes and 36 seconds
>Organization XIII is replaced with mobile gacha characters who have cardboard one dimensional personalities and appeared in 1 cutscene for 2 minutes and 55 seconds in the actual games
>In order to understand backstory you need to play mobile gacha (WHICH IS OFFLINE NOW)
>Another mobile gacha that was supposed to contain crucial backstory got cancelled
>QTEs
>Strong woman representation
>Unreal Engine 5
>Nomura is retiring and giving away the franchise to literally who
IT'S OVER

>>717494370
In the year 2038

>>717494370
If it was releasing next year they would've shown another trailer by now, but there's fucking nothing. If they don't have anything in this year's Game Awards expect 2027-2028 at the absolute EARLIEST.

>>717494370
Maybe late 2026 at the earliest or something. Their new business plan has "major titles" planned for the period of apr26 to mar27 but there's also still DQ12 & 7R3 so depends on what gets their priority.

>>717488684 (OP)
1. The plot is extremely convoluted.

2. In every new game, there is a constant change of rules.

3. Rules can be broken because "muh power of heart".

4. Clones, people stealing names, or whatever. Constant recycling of the same characters because you thought they died but then, oh that wasn't the real one, and similar kind of bullshit.

5. Games scattered between several platforms, requiring you to buy every device possible (weren't Coded and χ only for phones?)

6. Some remasters were only videos because they had the rule of "one game per year" (remasters included) and they didn't have time to remaster everything, so if you were waiting for 358/2 Days, you can fuck yourself.

These are a few reason that came in mind on the fly. I bet there are many more.

>>717488684 (OP)
I love KH2 more than KH1, but they NEED to go back to KH1-style gameplay; by doing this, it will make game development a lot quicker. They also need to start using the old Disney movies and Square Enix games for worlds; if they don't want to keep relying on old content, they will probably need to remove the Disney side of KH and move on to different things because it is very clear to me and many other people that KH is in a very bad state at the moment, and we know they can't keep making these games because every new Disney movie and TV series has been complete shit.

knowing that there were thousands and thousands of former keyblade users killed a lot of the magic for me. strange reason, but part of the charm of 1 was you felt like a once in a lifetime hero with a special gift, now he's just like a generic jedi or something.

>>717495183
There were three keyblades in KH1.

>>717495270
cool so went from 3 (1 of which being a god) to tens of thousands

great argument you dumb FUCK if you respond to my posts again i'm going to write you up.

3 killed all of the enjoyment I had of the series. I just hope they take the lessons from the Re:Mind data org fights and Yozora because the combat in those sections are actually really fucking good.
SE just needs to fucking stop with giant heartless as the bossfights, or at least pace them out a bit better. I can't remember if 3 had any boss fights against a Disney villain (Read: The actual villain and not their heartless).

>>717495362
Look, I hate the lore from the mobile games, and I hate how every main character gets a keyblade, but there were 2 keyblade users in KH1, and Sora having one wasn't that special even if we only ignore the shitty mobile game lore. Also, Sora, his clones, Riku, and Kairi were the only ones who had a keyblade until BirthByShit.

>>717495270
Isn't one just a darkness equivalent while the other is a fucked up version that isn't THE keyblade?

>>717495183
>>717495602
I'll just say I don't hate the idea of thousands of keyblade users on principle, because I think if done right having the idea of (You) being the first keyblade wielder in a long ass time after the war wiped all out could be fun... then the actual events of BBS happens and kills that idea.
It could be my bias of 2:FM clouding my judgement because Lingering Will is such a fucking cool concept.

>>717488684 (OP)
Because it peaked here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8RCNgZWAeQ and nothing comes close to reaching this high. Doesn't help that Xehanort ended up being a wet fart.

>>717495541
Only Davy Jones. I think Remind will be something to build off of. The response to at least those bosses was positive and it probably wouldn't hurt to lean into them more for the main game as well now that the whole punishing difficulty as a selling point has become more popular.

>>717495541
>I can't remember if 3 had any boss fights against a Disney villain
The Titans from Hercules if they count. That's the only one I remember though.

Kh peaked with sora in smash.

>>717495710
>>717495727
The BBS niggas should've died; they should've been the "What if Sora, Riku, and Kairi were super strong keyblade users, but they failed to defeat the villain because they are not as close to each other as SRK" type characters. Think of Naruto and how Obito and Pain were like Naruto, but they both took a different path, which ultimately led to their downfall.

>>717495838
>>717495920
>Titans
Kind of cool, but spits in the face of "Sora is weaker in 3". Still a giant boss fight at the end of the day
>Davy Jones
Not a bad fight.
Man, there is so much about base 3 that I must've blocked from my mind.

>>717495662
No there is the keyblade that unlocks hearts while Sora's *Riku's* key does not have that ability

>>717495992
*is weaker at the start of 3.

>>717488684 (OP)
>KH1
>2002
>KH2
>2005 (3 years later)
>KH3
>2019 (14 years later)
Gee, I wonder why nobody cares anymore?

>>717494537
Give me DQ Builders 3!! Fucking Square Enix!!

>Is the worst Nort
At least the other OG org people have a slight nostaliga factor and Terranort gets to have a cutscene with Lingering Will.

>>717495727
All those batshit theories we cooked up...take me back.

>>717496174
I like him because he's a dickhead and KH needs more characters like that. Young Xehanort is the most boring one.

>>717496174
>Is the worst Nort
But enough about young xehanort

>>717495727
Rewatching this, it made me realize how underutilized keyblade armour is in the series.

>>717496243
>>717496258
I legit forgot about Young Xehanort.

>>717496174
HJO as Vanitas and Nimoy as Xehanort are literally the only enjoyable thing about BBS though. As terrible as the gameplay, the writing, and the level design are, at least the villains are consistently enjoyable any time they're on screen hamming it up. Young Xehanort is infinitely worse, probably the worst written character in the series, with the only close competition being Ven.

>>717496405
I feel pretty much the same way about BBS

>>717496085
with all the focus on HD-2D games, rumored 7 remaster and 12 still being in dev hell I would forget about that for many years

>>717488684 (OP)
Because Squareenix, like most major devlopers, forgot how to make video games.

Kingdom Hearts III gave people a good jumping off point. Yes there are sequel hooks and mystery boxes. But Sora defeated Xehanort's army and saved his girl from the jaws of death. He even says before the credits that his whole journey was all for her. For all intents and purposes, the saga is complete.

IV is in development, but with the Missing Link gacha being cancelled and Nomura talking about his eventual retirement, I don't know what the future looks like.

>>717496038
I bought a ps3 for KH3

>>717497043
I bought a vita for Monster Hunter.

>>717488684 (OP)
dogshit writing. like, seriously terrible, maybe the worst videogame writing of all time

why did they even bother having disney and final fantasy characters if they weren't going to use them for literally anything anyway. the whole thing is so fucked up. All these IP misused about as much as it was possible to misuse them. it's fucking insane

>>717497043
Same.

>>717496784
I think the whole sora dissolving sequel hooks would have worked better if they were more traditional KH secret endings. Base ending everyone gets is just party on destiny islands without sora dissolving. Then have the secret ending be sora dissolving and then the Shibuya scene. I genuinely think that even just that minor rejiggering that doesn't even change any of the actual events of the story would make people like the ending a lot more.

>>717497412
Sora always dissolves in the ending, no requirements.

>>717497241
There's nothing fucked up about 1's story

>>717488757
How many spinoff games are there in this franchise now? How the hell do they release the first two games only to then release the third 15 years later? Are these spinoff games essential? I think they did wait too long.

Obviously KH hasn't been completely forgotten, but the level of enthusiasm is now limited to a fairly small core fanbase. From reading the thread, people seem to be blaming the long wait for KH3, but that game still managed to be the best selling game of the franchise up to that point. That's because of how insane the hype was leading up to KH3's release, where even ecelebs who gave zero shits about the franchise were weighing in on it. So the question is "why isn't it the same for KH4?" I think the answer has more to do with the complete lack of information fans have gotten about KH4 so far. Even if KH3 was a disappointment, Square could have maintained the hype train by showing off how KH4 is going to be much better. But so far, we have seen so little of the game that fans have to zoom in on blurry back ground objects in the trailer to generate any kind of hype. And yes, there has only been 1 trailer in the 3 years since the game's announcement. In comparison, KH3 was announced in 2013 only 1 year after KH3D's release, which already set up the conflict in KH3. In 2015, we had trailers for Olympus, Tangled, and Big Hero 6 worlds. Square delivered at least one trailer a year and a steady flow of updates to keep fans excited for KH3.This also included updates for the mobile game as well as a sort-of demo for KH3 in 2017 with KH2.8. In contrast, since KH4's announcement, we have seen the mobile games removed from the app store, the cancelation of the next major story title, 1 trailer, a few static images, and no confirmed Disney Worlds. There certainly are plenty of other problems I can think of too, particularly with how the mobile games made the story even more complicated without resolving much of anything. But I really do think that Square could have maintained hype by showing off the next game. But the fact that have shown so little makes me believe that they still don't have anything to show.
I now dedicate this thread to Indiana Jones anon. God Bless.

>>717501471
>How many spinoff games are there in this franchise now?
Zero, which is part of the problem. Every game contributes to the plot in some way. But that wasn't clear when those games were released. For example, people expected Days to just be a spin-off where you play as OrgXIII and learn why Roxas is so pissed off in KH2. But then Xion shows up again in KH3, making Days a lot more crucial to the overall story. Nomura's vision is that every game is important to the plot. Genuine fans of KH2 would have played BBS because that was the game shown in the secret movie of KH2. That game is a prequel and very important to the continuation of the franchise plot.
>How the hell do they release the first two games only to then release the third 15 years later?
The conspiracy theory is that after KH1 and 2's unexpected success, executives at Square intentionally sabotaged the franchise in order to keep the company from being taken over by The Mouse. Hence the lack of new console games for 15 years.
>Are these spinoff games essential?
KH1, KH2, KHBBS, KH3D, and KH3+Remind are the "big 5". But you also need to have watched the KHX cutscene movie before playing KH3. Now, KHUX and Dark Road are likely to be vital to the plot of KH4 while Melody of Memory may not be that important.

It's a series that thrives off of theorizing between entries. Even a crumb of which can keep the last scavengers going for another year if juicy enough, but we're currently in a multi-year drought.
People (rightfully) shit on the mobages but if Missing Link came out there'd still be a steady number of "What did Nomura mean by this?" threads instead of "Why did Nomura abandon us?" threads because the worldbuilding of these games attracts autists like flies to shit. It's a game made BY an autist FOR autists.