Thread 717602191

If the old internet beyond the blackwall is such a danger to humanity, why don't they just turn off the old net servers at the plug lmao are they stupid?

>>717602191 (OP)
Because everyone basically went full Adeptus Mechanicus and nobody knows 100% how the Net works, just that it does. So they just cornered of the bad part

>>717602191 (OP)
Because no one actually wants to solve the impending rogue AI apocalypse.
The corps want to keep it contained, study it, and find a way to utilize it. Like the Erebus or Canto.

That's the horror of cyberpunk. We all know its a problem. We all know that its going to kill us if we don't fix it. It would be pretty easy to fix and fix for good.
But then corps couldn't use it to get richer and more powerful.
The greed of people so far above you threatens to destroy everything you know and you are powerless to stop it.

>>717602191 (OP)
>why don't they just turn off the old net servers at the plug lmao are they stupid?

They can't turn it off without shutting down their own net and cripple everyone else who has techwear in them... which is like 99% of the population.

>>717602191 (OP)
because the original setting was made by retards who don't understand modern technology. same reason people can't just turn off external communication on their implants, to avoid quickhacks

>>717602191 (OP)
The answer is that the setting was conceived in the 80s by a guy who did not really understand the internet. The Net is a separate plane of existence, not merely a bunch of physical computers connected together like IRL. AIs (and runners) can inhabit the Net itself without being on any physical computer.

>>717602191 (OP)
i genuinely don't know if they explain what and where the 'bad' part of the internet physically is. i kind of assumed it was out in the wasteland across the US; Nightcity and some NUSA enclaves being otherwise novel areas of stability

>>717602847
>separate plane of existence
That's weird is that why shit like Alt being a digital ghost happens?

>>717602191 (OP)
Because this setting was written by a technologically illiterate person who thinks computers are magic. All the issues with it trace back to that. Some of them are much worse than AI inconsistencies, fort example the whole hacking mechanic which implies that whatever implants installed into a person's body are always accessible though a permanently functional wireless port, which is a gross absurdity in terms of security.

The main difference between fantasy and science fiction, is that latter demands at least some respect towards common sense, while for former it's explicitly stated to be unneeded. Cyhberpunk 2020/77 is a fantasy setting with a science fiction coat of paint.

>>717603083
so you had like 0 idea what the plot was the whole game or what

Because the AI mainframes are in corporate vaults and government bunkers which provide physical protection against being attacked. The setting has dead Smart cities that are completely automated by the rogue AIs and basically they're robot hives.

>>717602191 (OP)
>>717602847
its really a fantasy setting in disguise

Cyberpunk setting can get away with being absurd and retarded because, the core idea of replacing human body parts with metal components and getting an improvement out of that is inherently clowned up beyond any reason. Anyone actually familiar with biology will affirm that. What we call biological life is nothing but a carbon-based nanorobitics, which are optimized to existentially horrifying levels by now. Nothing that human makes or will make in a next couple centuries will be as efficient as a human body. The idea of replacing your arm with some metal surrogate part is comparable to replacing your expensive GPU with an abacus.

The real transhumanism will be about genetic engineering eliminating existing issues with human body, while not getting in the way of its self-repair and self-maintenance. As of anything the carbon is too frail for, wearing a mechanized exoskeleton does exactly the same thing as getting a metal arm, except you keep your arm.

>>717603178
>hacking implants

Not so absurd considering some staple combat implants are in the brain and eyes, just two implants with internal telemetry leaves the implants vulnerable to the outside.

>>717604330
It should be impossible at the hardware level. There simply shouldn't be a wireless modem in the same system as implants interacting with body functions. Building it in is like specifically designing a military vehicle with a dedicated weak spot that blows it up if hit.

>>717602783
>because the original setting was made by retards who don't understand modern technology.
the original setting was made before technology was modern.
the first edition of cyberpunk was set in the distant future of 2013

>>717602191 (OP)
The modern day version of what you're suggesting would be akin to saying 'lol, just turn off every server on the planet.' An impossible task. And in Cp2077, the shit's even more distributed with satellites and everything else.

And fuck Netwatch. Kill those fed cocksuckers whenever they turn up.

>>717602748
It's the most interesting part of the universe to me, personally. Mr. Blue Eyes, Cynosure, all of that; the best content in the game.

>>717604791
>Mr. Blue Eyes
Fuck I completely missed that. I scanned an NPC that was named like that but couldn't get to him.

>>717604553
The brain has net access so there's your gateway right there, any implant duplexed to the brain is now vulnerable. Even without conventional protocols implants would necessitate some form of wireless communication just for diagnostics, a problem with IMDs being built today, even a simple RF protocol is vulnerable.

>>717602191 (OP)
Most of the old net is running off hardware humans no longer have access too
>>717602847
Not entirely, the net needs infrastructure its just that a lot of it is now hidden around the world in dead zones no one can get to or destroy. The setting was already fucked before the blackwall.

>>717604791
>lol, just turn off every server on the planet
Cutting cables connected to AI infested servers would be more than enough. Or cutting power to them. Or in the worst case scenario, few ballistic missiles into where they're situated. Nuclear payload isn't even needed, ICBM kinetic bombardment is destructive enough and almost impossible to defend against.

>the shit's even more distributed with satellites
Anti-satellite ground-based missiles are a real current year tech, not even cutting edge ones.

>>717605126
No one has the capacity or desire to unilaterally nuke everywhere old tech might be. Also by this point some of it has definitely gone full WAU and may be mobile or so well protected by automated systems it cant be destroyed by conventional means

>>717605114
>The brain has net access
A physical switch that disables it should be the basic part of any combat implant kit then.
If you look through some selection of at least somewhat successful sci-fi authors, you will notice that most of them are engineers or scientists by their background, and those who aren't will still be well-educated about those subjects. However, there will be absolutely no correlation with profession or competence for fantasy authors, nor it's needed. But when a fantasy author attempts to write science fiction while not equipped with correct modes of thinking needed for that, you get shit like this.

>>717604553
I think what anon was getting at is you can hack anything that receives data, and eye implants receive data. It's not inconceivable you could cause a buffer overflow or some other bug with the right input.

>implying the old Internet wouldn't just disappear after 30 years of no physical maintenance
Servers break all the time.

>>717605101
Mr. Blue Eyes can never be directly interacted with. IIRC, he only shows up at three points in the game: Watching from a balcony when you talk to Jefferson Peralez at the end of his quest, Watching you from a higher level in the spaceport when you're doing the PL finale path there, and In the Afterlife club when /v/ takes the Living Legend ending to rob the Crystal Palace, but that's in a cutscene.

>>717605126
>just destroy the servers and cut the cables, bro
Do you have any idea how retarded you sound? Do you know how much hardware exists, even today, you'd need to take out? And how much of it is miles underground in protected bunkers?

>>717605918
Yes, I forgot about that too
>Horrifying death AI rape daemon swarm from hell is no more, because air conditioning at where it was hosted decided to shit itself

>>717606154
>Do you know how much hardware exists
Everything that consumes electric power is accounted for. Don't tell me cp77 setting is full of charity power companies which supply electricity to vast amount of unknown entities for free.

>And how much of it is miles underground in protected bunkers?
Sever a cable connecting the bunker to an outside world. Dismantle whatever radio equipment sticking out. It's free to exist by itself and not bother anyone until its air conditioning breaks and servers melt. Theoretically, this installation can communicate with the outside world using very long wave bands similar to ones used for communicating with submarines IRL, but the equipment for this type of communication is so exotic and physically large, singling it out is a non-issue.

Alt is utterly diabolical, that kind of AI is legit scary and proof that every single server hosting the old net needs the plug pulled even if that means blasting this shit out of areas that don't comply or can't comply due to being automated.

Surely the "new" net content wouldn't be hosted on the same servers as the "old" net? that would've been a retarded choice that no one would make.

>>717605690
Too many variables to speculate on:
how does the lockout trigger?
what components are shutdown? how?
can the lockout itself be blocked remotely?
are there backup protocols to access like NFC or radio?

I'm not trying to be overly charitable to the writer just challenging that one example which I don't think to be definitively implausible.

Noteworthy excuse to bring up, since you mentioned sci-fi authors: about a particularly famous sci-fi author, Philip K. Dick- he had no engineering background and practically no higher education at all- he didn't finish his first semester at Berkely. Despite this, he is still showed great prescience, 'predicting' future tech in his novels.

>>717606748
>everything that consumes power is accounted for
What is this brainlet reasoning? Power can be stolen. It can be generated secretly. People can simply fucking forget what power is going where. Your entire retarded reasoning depends on the people doing the removal having this total perfect knowledge of where all cables are going, where all power is going, and then being organized enough to somehow remove it without obliterating civilization in the process.

Do you even realize how stupid you sound?

>>717606869
The entire thing in CP2077 is you have the 'new' net compartmentalized and not connected, at all, to the old net. How this actually works is a gray area, but the only known boundary between the two is the Blackwall, which is an AI itself that keeps the old net stuff from getting in.

>>717602191 (OP)
Old net isn't regarded as "the internet" today, same as netrunning isn't logging into a PC and logging into Facebook. It's filling a bathtub full of ice and putting on a suit to not overheat and discovering new frontiers in space. Beyond the blackwall is essentially digital hell full of rogue demon AIs

You guys who live in Realspace; you move so slow. Me I like Netspace. It moves fast. You don't get old, you don't get slow and sloppy. You just leave the meat behind and go screamin'. First system I ever hit, I think they had some weeflerunner playin' Sysop for them. I burned in, and jolted the guy with a borrowed Hellbolt, and did the major plunder action all over the Data Fortress. Somewhere out there is a guy with half his forebrain burned out. I wonder if they ever found the body. I wonder if they'll find mine the same way...

— Spider Murphy, Cyberpunk 2020

>>717602191 (OP)
Because the servers are a in hell, OP. Did you think demon was just a name for malicious programs?

>>717603178
>Some of them are much worse than AI inconsistencies, fort example the whole hacking mechanic which implies that whatever implants installed into a person's body are always accessible though a permanently functional wireless port, which is a gross absurdity in terms of security.

Wait till you hear how secure IoT crap is in real life.
Hint: there's absolutely NO security whatsoever. Just because something is rational doesn't mean it will happen.

>>717604791
>The modern day version of what you're suggesting would be akin to saying 'lol, just turn off every server on the planet.' An impossible task.
Holy retard.

>>717607518
Lmao it seems that you have no clue how the infrastructure of human society operates and believe that complex systems requiring immense amounts of manpower simply to maintain grow on trees.
It's the power supplier's job to know where their energy goes, and they are very interested in being good at it since their profits directly correlate with that. Same with ISPs and knowing the network they operate. For any space inhabited and maintained by people, there will always be enough of them to know local situation and be able to explain it.
That is, unless you're at the same level of general technical literacy as this setting's author. Not even IT knowledge, just awareness of how the society around you works.

>>717603178
How is Biotechnica supposed to make an honest living if they can't serve you new ads through your biomon at any time? Of course their shit is going to be permanently connected. Everything makes sense when you assume corporations aren't merely incompetent but actively malicious. And it works for the game's setting too.

>>717604553
>Building it in is like specifically designing a military vehicle with a dedicated weak spot that blows it up if hit.
You mean the thing that happens in real life all the time because it's cheaper?

>>717602191 (OP)
There isn't an 'old' net, the net everyone uses is utterly infected, everyone is just using a sequestered and domified 'safe' network.

It's like if you tried to connect to the internet today with WEP and got hacked by a full evasive worm, long since activated, roaming and autonomous.

>>717608386
Cyberpunk has orbital solar power plants that beam energy back to Earth as microwaves. See the quest with Panam where you crash the AV.
Electricity is so plentiful and most corps are so preoccupied with other shit that it is reasonable that some might just get stolen to run the old net servers.

In addition, Delamain's quests show us that repair drones exist and are quite competent, so maintenance for these sites is accounted for.
They are capable of being entirely self-sufficient.

>>717608386
>it's the power supplier's job to know where energy goes
>people know the local situation

Ah, so you're just a teenager that has never worked a real job with actual adults. Please allow me to give you a reality check: Things are far less organized than you think.

Here's some other glaring holes in your reasoning, lil bro:
>power can still be stolen, which just tells utility providers another place is drawing more energy (assuming that place even knows they're being robbed)
>people maintaining systems rarely understand the totality of the system itself; just their narrow part of it
>all power generation is known and reported to the same authorities (it isn't)
>ISPs know where their cables are (generally), but they can regularly lose plans or forget (try dealing with commercial telecoms and you'd understand this)
>ISPs aren't doing deep packet inspection on everything in their network, so you'd never have a way of reliably knowing you turned off 'the bad servers'

And so on. Not even in Japan, where they're hyper detailed and professional, could you accomplish a task so absurd as 'find, isolate, and destroy a specific set of networking equipment.'

>>717609636
Also good points as to why that guy is a complete brainlet.

>>717608386
The point of 80s cyberpunk is that the complexity of society increases so much that no one person can possibly understand it and the systems take on a will of their own, expressed without regard for individuals comprising that system. It's satirical, it's deliberately heightened to the point of absurdity. It's the paperclip maximizer.
A power supplier knows where energy is flowing. But any individual grid operator doesn't. It's too complicated of a system for any one operator, or even any one local grid to make sense of. So you have to do your thing and then trust that the system is actually working as intended. And so that creates something that can be exploited.
If you're complaining that this isn't realistic then you're missing the entire point. But if you can't grasp the fundamental anxiety of being at the mercy of inscrutable complex systems created by humans but that nobody can actually control, then you've got terminal NPC syndrome.

>>717604553
>dedicated weak spot
>what is a day 0 exploit

Also remember the implants are made by corpos who are engaged in constant shadow wars with each other. One corpo steals a design along with an exploit, or just some spy couriered an exploit to a rival.

So the geniuses at Militech that created eldritch horrors from beyond the Blackwall didnt even pull the plug off when they were shutting the project down? And the site itself isnt even properly cut off from the rest of the city?

>>717603801
This, basically. Even the viruses are called deamons and the blackwall itself is shown to work very similary to how the warp from 40k does

>>717604074
I agree with you on organs and the nervous system and other complicated parts of the body but a robot arm is totally doable and would be much more robust and easier to repair than a muscle one.

>>717602783
more like this post was made by a retard who doesn't understand when Cyberpunk was first made

>>717608657
>You mean the thing that happens in real life all the time because it's cheaper?
how else are they going to beat the russians in turret tossing?

>>717610882
>created eldritch horrors
Militech built a prison and the means to trap the eldritch horrors from beyond the Blackwall, then bend them to their will.

Like the old trope of a wizard meddling with powers beyond his comprehension to enslave a demon.

All the site, Cynosure, was meant for was to trap an AI and give them something similar to Arasaka's Soulkiller. But every time militech tried, the AIs cooked their researchers, tried to escape, etc, and Militech just said fuck it and mothballed the entire place.

>>717611009
>the blackwall is the warp
Only in that there are things in there you don't want to let you, and that you shouldn't try going in. Hell is a much better analog for what's beyond the blackwall.

>>717602748
>what's banking
Anon, I... you'll have a rough awakening one day, realizing the worst of grimdark fiction is nothing compared to Clownworldm

>>717609745
>(try dealing with commercial telecoms and you'd understand this
dear fucking this hurts on so many levels.we don't even have proper documentation on how cabling needs to be done for internal test servers and nobody notices it because nobody knows who even still uses it.
Hell, recently one customer lost their encryption key for the entire systems configuration

>>717603178
>permanently functional wireless port, which is a gross absurdity in terms of security.
Because corporate et all in fiction wouldn't keep a backdoor accessible 24/7, right? Corporate et all doesn't keep a backdoor accessible 24/7 IRL, right? Nigger.

>>717612461
>Corporate et all doesn't keep a backdoor accessible 24/7
something something huawei something something CCP

>>717605918
>>717606187
It's explained in the game that many secret data centres were built during the corp wars, and they lost track of many of them, similar to the sea mines. When Bartmoss released the AI from containment they took over these data centres and backed themselves up to several locations so they couldn't be easily erased. They took over the security systems and presumably have maintenance robots they can use to fix any hardware issues. You infiltrate at least two such facilities in the game. IIRC it's also implied some AI may have access to nuclear weapons and to hunt them down would risk provoking nuclear retaliation.

>>717603178
>Because this setting was written by a technologically illiterate person
>whole hacking mechanic which implies that whatever implants installed into a person's body are always accessible though a permanently functional wireless port, which is a gross absurdity in terms of security
Fucking imbecile.

>>717602191 (OP)
The world has been through several wars in the meantime. There are area's around the globe that are nuke zones, biowarfare zones etc, where humans cannot enter but the servers are still running. Hong Kong and South Korea I think are two such places where bio weapons have made them uninhabitable but their geo power stations even though unmanned keep the computers running.
It's worth noting the old net which is just our net today is still there. AI's can freely move around from place to place across continents and cities outside of the blackwall so there are always places to escape to as long as the servers do not have the blackwall protocol either because the servers were made before the data krash or because corps are doing nefarious shit.
For instance in Hong Kong the corporation Kang Tao has allied with Alt to create an AI city in the net for engrams to congregate for some unknown reason.
As to why they don't go around and secure these areas, it would be almost impossible. AI can freely move anywhere outside of the wall, across continents, hibernate in unsecured data terminals or other shit but even worse, the AI that live beyond the wall have been constantly evolving and getting stronger which means dealing with them is incredibly dangerous.
But the real answer is what the Netwatch agent in Pacifica tells you. Corps and the world public as a whole think the AI problem beyond the wall has been solved by the creation of the Blackwall and Netwatch tell people nothing can cross it. This is generally true. But of course there are ways. The voodoo boys manage to send you across somehow and the NUSA has secretly created a cyborg who can just open holes in it at will.

>>717604553
The cyberpunk world has figured out how to interface the human brain with a cellphone. It is fucking over, they have hacked the brain bro.

>>717606748
>Don't tell me cp77 setting is full of charity power companies which supply electricity to vast amount of unknown entities for free.
It's implied they do, no way people in Pacifica are paying for power. IRL, Favelaniggers in Brazil can get power. They just steal it.

>>717609745
>Not even in Japan, where they're hyper detailed and professional
And yet...

>>717612208
Of course.
That's what makes cyberpunk's horror so effective. You can easily see real-world counterparts to the more fantastical elements.

>>717610882
isn't the cynosure facility airgapped from night city and the net? isn't that what it needs songbird for in the first place?

>>717602191 (OP)
great game

>>717615401
>Isn't Cynosure airgapped
Yes, but what the rogue AIs need is Songbird to connect so they can use her as some kind of human bridge to the outside to let them out. Or something to that effect. Her (Songbird) using the Blackwall as an intermediary to communicate with V is a running thing in the DLC.

Who's Zen Master

I never understood how netrunners don't rule a world where everything is run on the internet. Yeah Adam Smasher is 5 tons of indestructible metal with guns on every joint but who gives a fuck if you can melt his brain from the other side of Night City?

>>717619550
You really think Arasaka ain't gonna equip their top attack dog with the best ICE money can buy?

This game was such a flat fart of a depiction, interpetation and adaptation of the series which is probably the only reason it sold so well, the grand majority of players want the most stale, easily consumable shit because it gives them the most comfort out of any possible iteration.

>>717619738
better than fallout 4 and Starfield
glad CP BTFO them

>>717619710
Maybe Smasher was a bad example because he's corporately backed, but a netrunner vs any merc I don't see how netrunners don't rule the roost

>>717611009
The Blackwall is literally a wall. It's the Gellar Field that keeps Humanity safe. The Blackwall is not the Warp. The Net on the other side of it is.

>>717619550
>who gives a fuck if you can melt his brain from the other side of Night City?
pre-2077 net is specifically hardwired, netrunners have to physically jack in.
this both because it was the '80s and everything was still dial-up, and also because having a player just sit at home and play an entirely different game from the rest of the party is annoying.

>>717602191 (OP)

because Netwatch would be out of the job of protecting humanity from it. it's in Netwatch interest to keep the boogyman blackwall alive

>>717620000
Because generally any given team will have their own net runner, and his main job is to run interference on the opposing team's net runner. Hence a big part of the prologue heist being taking the hotel's net runner off the board so Tbug can operate unopposed.

>>717602191 (OP)
I heard that when netrunners jack inside of the net is basically like battle network(dungeons and stuff)? something that CP2077 doesn't tackle correctly

>>717620000
Crews have netrunners and some gangs, like the VDBs, are more netrunners than anything else. But you still need guys to do physical things in person, and netrunners also need to be protected. And you can get cyberware to protect against netrunners. It's very high risk/high reward and few people can do running properly. Think of it like the difference between soldiers and hackers in an army; way more soldiers because grunts are easy to find and train.

>>717619550
The whole point of the AI thing is that there is no overarching internet, things are supposed to be disjointed.