Thread 717749816

Leaving room for the imagination is fine, especially if the game is better overall because less time was spent making the individual pores of each character visible

>“Whatever you now find weird, ugly, uncomfortable and nasty about a new medium will surely become its signature. CD distortion, the jitteriness of digital video, the crap sound of 8-bit - all of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as they can be avoided. It’s the sound of failure: so much modern art is the sound of things going out of control, of a medium pushing to its limits and breaking apart. The distorted guitar sound is the sound of something too loud for the medium supposed to carry it. The blues singer with the cracked voice is the sound of an emotional cry too powerful for the throat that releases it. The excitement of grainy film, of bleached-out black and white, is the excitement of witnessing events too momentous for the medium assigned to record them.”
- Brian Eno

I dont mind low poly but warping is fucking shit, i agree

>FFX programmer
>screenshot is FFVII

>>717749951
Wait til you find out how adorable the modern idea of "transcending history" will be in 20 years

>>717749893
leaving room for imagination = inability to create something thought provoking

can anyone out argue this?

>>717749951
in 20 years we will have devs scripting in the charming unreal 5 stutter (all 3 types) and smearing simulated DLSS + FXAA vaseline onto the graphics

>>717750106
You thought “journalists” suddenly stopped being retarded or something?

>>717749816 (OP)
>I don't get why people not want extreme realism in their games?
I'm so tired of japs, maybe 2 nukes were not enough

>>717750106
He's talking about PS1 games
Which VII is
X isn't

>>717750106
>>717750372
probably because ff7 was the debut ps1 ff game and they're talking about ps1 games, something to consider

>>717750408
>extreme hyperbole
are you jewish?

>>717750106
>>717750372
You are actually retarded. The subject of the headline is the texture warping which was very prominent in PS1 games like FFVII. It makes more sense to put a picture of the topic of the article, rather than a picture related to the person talking about texture warping.

>We worked so hard
Yeah that's why we want those games

>>717749816 (OP)
personally i would like a game that looks like late ps1 early ps2 cutscens

>>717750589
That’s unrelated

when will these indie hacks start making PS2 tier games.

>>717750264
What? But letting people imagine things id literally the opposite of not being thought provoking. Imagining things means you're thinking. Are you dumb?

>>717749816 (OP)
I'm tired of pixel shit, they should go after ps1/2 more

>>717751012
>>717751061
PS2 didn't look like that

>>717751247
yes it did.

>>717751247
It did

>why do you like those crappy old graphics instead of stock UE assets shat out by 100,000 indians before being blasted with the worst lighting possible
you can always trust the masters over at SE to ask the big questions

>>717751058
>create book called Thought Provoker
>every page is blank
hideo kojima here no need to drop your jaw in awe

>>717750854
I'm inclined to agree with this, it's disappointing that no one really tried this.

>>717751285
>>717751306
show me a game that had those ugly white/black lines on the geometry

>>717751012
>>717751061
the texture work here alone is more complex than entire indie game worlds, you can't expect hard work from indie shit

>>717751698
oh fuck off you timewasting autist

>>717751731
just use ai slop to generate them. it's abstract enough where it wont matter.

>>717750457
>>717750470
>>717750589
NTA but you are all retarded
> FFX programmer
> PS2. which had no floating precision issues
> talking about FF7
> PS1 game he had 0 relation to

retards

>>717751482
well there was that mario 64 mod that tried to recapture the look of the promotinal renders which looked kinda close

>>717749816 (OP)
>why do people want thing that look like thing they like

>>717751983
it didnt redo the geometry so it looked like shit.

>>717749816 (OP)
to be fair, texture warping does look like complete shit in 99% of cases

>>717751482
Fantasian should have had the ps1 cgi graphics not that generic shit

>>717749951
low fps, crashing bug fests, kernel level anti cheat, gaas gacha monetization, non functioning vidya mirrors, non interactive environments, yellow pain
will be nostalgic gold in the future?
mind blown

>>717751908
>PS1 era games
>Use pic of one of the most popular PS1 games by the same company
Seems pretty understandable to me why they would use FF7

>>717752241
how are any of those a limitation or part of a "new medium", simpsonstard?

>>717751472
>He can't differentiate between complete emptiness and something missing from a whole
I guess it doesn't really make a difference whether your brain has a nut in it or is just completely emptiness either since you're retarded regardless.

>>717751698
lol

>>717749816 (OP)
To be fair I don't get why'd you'd want to imitate one of the uglier PS1 games in terms of character models when kino like Vagrant Story existed.

>indie game tries the ps1 aesthetic
>has warping as an option
>turn that shit off instantly
I don't get it either.

>>717752610
hi hacktsuno, don't you have a remake to work on?

>>717752241
Those are not smart solutions by talented artists to circle around technical limitations due to a growing medium rapidly expanding its horizons and possibilities. Instead your list are caused by incompetence, greed, management issues and more on a declining industry.

>>717752454
That is not what fag in >>717750106
was drawing attention to

dev who never coded for PS1 does not get a say in this

>>717749816 (OP)
These old boomers (not millennials) and corpo suits seriously just do not understand nostalgia at all it seems. I don't buy that they understand at all. If they did we wouldn't see them butcher so many of these demasters and demakes. We also would see old games on digital storefronts have much better emulation.

People get attached to their old favorites because it brings fond childhood memories you retarded ass old fucks. We like these games exactly as they were and many of us will even defend these games to a fault. Being completely bias in making excuses for an old game while criticizing anything newer that might have a similar feature, storyline, moment, etc. This shit isn't complicated goddamn. Its nostalgic, and no I am not being ironic or false flagging.

>>717749816 (OP)
I'm going to be honest. I just don't give a shit about graphics. FF7 proves that your game can look like complete dogshit but if you tell a interesting story and have fun gameplay it still can succeed.

I'm tired of waiting for 5-10 years for a game just so graphic fags can jerk themelves off about how "real" this dumb shit looks when I just want good games with a actually decent development cycle.

>>717749816 (OP)
In the case of FF VII, the idea that the game has charm is pure nostalgia. That game is ugly as hell, especially when it comes to the chibi 3D models. They don't fit the game, the theme, the fucking scenarios, they even change models during battles because they don't fit the battles either, but at least the devs had the good sense to swap the models for something acceptable.
The only thing you have there that's somewhat decent is that some pre-rendered 2D maps were made with some artistic care and aren't that bad if you look at them in isolation from the rest.

>>717753007
On a technical level FF7 is dogshit. The excellent aethetics and art direction vastly make up for it so the game overall looks good to this day still.
I will molest you for such a display of insolence.

>>717749816 (OP)
TRANS SISTERS NOOOOOOO HE FUCKING CALLED US OUT!

>>717751012
Too expensive still
Have you seen how much it costs to get even a fucking sprite artist, dude

>>717752965
>dev who never coded for PS1
it clearly says he workedon Xenogears right in the OP you illiterate monkey

>>717753007
>FF7 proves that your game can look like complete dogshit but if you tell a interesting story and have fun gameplay it still can succeed.
This is true to a point. A game has to have graphics and animations at some level if its of the caliber of FF7. The reason its story worked and has millions of fans is that they were able to capture a lot of animations and emotion despite the paper origami chibi character models. And then you also had the FMV's and much "better looking" in game battle models.

I really do not believe this game could have been conveyed as well if it had SNES era pixel sprite graphics. It sure as hell would not have sold as much copies.

>>717752965
and what games did you work on faggot that lets you dictate who gets a right to an opinion?

>>717752848
what are modern smart solutions?
Everything boils down to being more lazy because thanks to the abundance of processing power and ai upscaling/framegen.
Let alone everyone using the same engine and assets

>>717753007
yep. though for most, graphics will always be a selling point. people will buy new games because they look nice, so big companies will always try to appease them.

>>717753458
There are no modern smart solutions, only old games have these. Limits (of which there were plenty) breed creativity and artstyles. Pixelart is the most obvious example. Since there are no limits nowadays there is no creativity. Lack of a strong artistic vision makes most games look like homogeneous dogshit too.

They ask for it because they don't want to pay 1000 dollars for a gpu to run nu games.

>>717749816 (OP)
The only problem I have with modern attempts at replicating PS1-style graphics is that they always end up pale imitations.

>>717750106
>Do we post an image from Threads of Fate to illustrate the point properly
>What the fuck is a Threads of Fate? Imma gonna just put FF7 cause its gamer-core

>>717753565
>Since there are no limits nowadays
The limit is market forces. The fact that nobody wants to buy Unreal Slopper 10 for $79.99 will force studios to be more creative, or else they'll die off.

>PGXP ON
Still not perfect but bearable.

>>717753991
This, modern low poly is an embarrassment

>>717753991
That's because they're forcefully making it worse than it would be by default with modern tools. It's not a natural result of a creative process.

>>717752241
yes, but only because the stuff in the future is going to be much worse

>>717754032
Mint was such a cunt and her sister was superior

>>717753991
It’s the lighting, it’s always the lighting, they don’t do vertex lighting so everything doesn’t exist in the same environment

>>717749816 (OP)
How can they "avoid warping" is that not a true limitation of the console?

>>717755001
>It’s the lighting, it’s always the lighting
this could be said for 90% of "why does it look bad" questions ever

>>717749816 (OP)
Nostalgia (is gay) and it’s easy to author

>>717753991
they are too clean, every indie low poly game ends up looking like megaman legends with 6x resolution enabled on an emulator. and i haven't seen a single indie genuinely try to have real people's faces plopped onto a model like every other low poly game did

>>717755437
Yes, but for example, if you split up polygons into smaller chunks it is less obvious at the cost of requiring more memory and/or CPU time to do more vector math. Many games would dynamically do this as walls/objects got closer to the camera.

>>717755708
True, but the nuance here is low poly models used to use Vertex Colors and baked light maps and now they use per pixel realistic lighting which is why everything has that washed out bullshit look.

>>717750289
Kek. This would be hilarious

>>717749816 (OP)
Thats teh difference between devs and players

The devs, when it comes to making videogames specially back in the day
They never INTENDED to make the games look the way they look always. It is always about limitations. We ran out of time/budget. We didnt know how to make this thing work, so we settled for this. We wanted to do this but we couldnt. Etc

Meanwhile, the players who play games when they are kids, take all of these problems as normal. no problems at all. They are perfect games, charming, and it makes me remember my childhood, aka nostalgia.

>>717751430
kek

>>717751845
>>717751731
Our graphics teacher told us it's just stupid to try to recreate textures that you can find outside of your house.
Just grab a camera and start shooting, anon. That's what Valve most likely did.

>>717749816 (OP)
I wonder how the devs of the early shooters feel about the movement glitches that people got attached to

anyway I think the retro aesthetic thing does have potential value in like segments of a game like a dream sequence or a game within a game but making a whole game of it does seem a bit silly

>>717751482
There were some efforts to make things look like those n64 mario promos right? what ever happened with those?

>>717750264
leaving room for imagination is literally provoking thought.

>>717753795
light and shadows look to flat in my opinion
colors are too washed out as well

>>717757302
it won't look cohesive. a lot of these old PS2 games already used public photo libraries just that they painted over them with a bunch of brushes.

>>717752241
none of those are the result of limitations, they're just bad

>>717753172
Just Cloud's sword being as big as him in 3D was enough to sell the game because Berserk wasn't a thing outside of Japan in 1997/1998.
There were a lot of new japanese over-the-top attributes and other stuff introduced to Europe which wouldn't have been as successful as 2D sprites.

Signalis hit so hard in the graphics department.
>just enough detail to be spooky and understandable
>not overwhelmed you can't tell what's important without it glowing.

>>717752023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lav8wgQP9rc

>>717753795
looks nothing like KH1 and KH2 cutscenes

>>717749816 (OP)
BASED
Fuck lazy 8 bit sprites and PS1 "art style"

>>717757535
Yeah, of course you modify to reach desired result but making something like tree trunks from scratch is just idiotic.

>>717749816 (OP)
>old man yelling at clouds
>back in my day we used to put in painstaking effort to whip our niggers raw only for it to be called "wrong." Nowadays.

>>717750289
I don't think so. Non of the games are good or memorable.

2015 was the last good year for videogames. So if there's ever any nostalgia it will be from games of that era.

Bloodborne,witcher 3, dying light, Arkham Knight etc...

Most kids today play indie games.

>>717750264
Deliberate artistic choice, either provoked by hardware limitations or the imitation of such, is something that can be done well or poorly.

>>717749816 (OP)
I forget which game it was but I once noclipped out of the map by accident and I thought I had stumbled into some sort of secret. As a kid I accepted everything I saw was 100% intended, even bugs and glitches.
Of course I later realized that all games are effectively compromises between what could be done and what the devs really wanted to make. What saddens me is how many old school devs don't seem to embrace that those compromises are in their own way praise worthy. Like how Mikami doesn't like when people praise the tank controls in RE1. For him it was a compromise but for the players it was a new experience. Who knows if RE would've been the behemoth it is had they went with the original FPS idea.
All that said I think the texture warping was something we just kinda of stopped seeing after a while. It's like how our brains just sort of delete our noses from our sight even though it's always there.

>>717750264
Leaving room for imagination allows one to expand and engage with the content. It let's you think and digest and interperete what you've seen. And through that the subject provokes thought while encouraging you to ask questions and also leaving room for your answers to fit.

>>717754815
I want to make Mint a mother, I'm sure she'd be great at it. Popping out a few kids would mellow her out a bit

>>717753041
FFVII is largely carried by how influential it was. It visually looks like ass. Compare it to FFVIII, which has visually aged a lot better.

>>717760047
>It visually looks like ass.
It's very charming. The toy-shaped overworld models, the jagged anime battle models, the pre-rendered backgrounds. Beautiful in its own way, much more so than VIII, with its more realistic and consistent models.

>>717757124
I feel you’ll never understand artists/creatives unless you try to become one yourself.

The creative process is an enormous labor, almost akin to raising a child. And as such, there are going to be imperfections that personally bother you as the creator, even if they don’t bother other people.

>>717757638
Every time I see this Hitchcock quote I can't find any fault in it. This and Michelangelos quote on unfinished works of art being more perfect I agree more with every year

>>717753795
this is not phong shading and the hair is fake transparency.
it has shitty dithering instead of the genuine transparency classic CG rendering had.

>>717760482
That’s not Hitchcock, but I agree that the real redpill of art being that past a certain point, the pursuit of realism is a meme.

>>717749816 (OP)
To be fair towards this guy, I don't think I've ever heard of a PS1 dev talking about using the texture warping to their advantage. It was always something they just had to accept about the system.
In a weird way the warping might've added a bit more movement to the games. Nowadays they can mimic real time lighting and winds and all manner of hair and cloth bouncing around. With the PS1, the warping somewhat filled in that gap.

>>717760482
That's Jean Renoir

>>717760792
There's a certain irony that you'd write that while posting a clip that shows hair and cloth being moved by the wind

>>717750289
Bold of you to assume we will move on from UE to something good so there won't be native stuttering.

>>717760792
If PS1 devs were able to make their games look like modern games, they would. I know there’s the argument of limitation breeding creativity, but not every one of those creative solutions is necessarily one the creator is happy with.

>>717752241
THE FUTURE IS NOW MY BOY. They remade Oblivion with all that crap and people gobbled it up like it was fucking Christmas.

Wait for the sames hit to happen to Skyrim.

>>717749816 (OP)
>nation that coined the term wabisabi, doesn't understand it
pottery

Hyperrealism has its place, but the older games lack of fidelity is the same with how writers are taught to "Let the readers imagination fill in the gaps". You're not there to do all the thinking for them. That wobble invites a suspension of disbelief, as well as add a dream like vibe to the environment.

>>717760959
My irony transcends even myself.
Honestly hadn't noticed it until just now.

>>717749816 (OP)
I don't get it either. Ps2 graphics are way better and more charming

>>717761107
True, but it’s not always intentional. Sometimes it’s a happy accident and pulls off a good effect, but sometimes it’s an unfortunate limitation. The overworld models of FFVII look awful for example, despite the battle models looking alright.

>>717753991
here's your ps1 indie game bro

>>717761139
I think you might have a point, though. Static scenes are really boring to look at, so even the slightest movement can add something. A scene like that - very heavily controlled - can afford all sorts of manual effects, but a random area in a given level probably can't. The PS1 couldn't afford to have trees or grass move in the wind as a general rule, but you could sometimes get a sense of movement just from the polygon warping

>>717761294
Thats what Wabi-sabi is.
its the acceptance of the transient and imperfection. Its not intended, but it works. You roll with it.
>I think pringles initial intention was to make tennis balls, but when they came in a truck full of potatoes showed up. Pringles was a laid back company and said "Fuck it, cut em up."

i really love that low poly games are getting popular but i wouldn't mind ps2 style stylized graphics either.

>>717761560
I want to see low-poly games that don't care about adhering to a specific platform. And not those fucking untextured ones that always look like ass

>>717761560
PS2 graphics I think hit that perfect sweetspot between realistic detail and stylisation.

>>717761560
This, fuck ps1! For me it's japanese ps2 graphics

>>717749816 (OP)
But FFX was a no-overworld-having, walking-around-with-swimshorts-and-tshirt-in-the-snowy-mountains-wearing, FF8-nostalgia-coping pile of garbage...

>>717760817
>>717760635
So it is. Regardless it doesn't change my opinion on the quote. The only time hyper realistic should be used is completely foreign worlds

>>717760482
I have gotten to the point if I get to something in a video game I really enjoyed i oftentimes just drop it right there. I am happy with that as the conclusion and the rest of the game can be what ifs or maybe in my mind. I am even starting to do it with movies where I stop 80% of the way through

>>717761997
>figusharts broly and vegeta
ngmi

>>717761052
>If PS1 devs were able to make their games look like modern games, they would
>not every one of those creative solutions is necessarily one the creator is happy with

Thank god they couldn't. Artists a lot of times are obsessed with perfection and don't understand that it hurts their work. To talented people limitations are always an advantage and not a hindrance.

>>717752965
>Says that he worked on Xenogears
>"dev who never coded for PS1"
/v/ is full of retards that can't read

>>717750106
Xenogears and Dew Prism are psx games you retarded zoomer.

>>717749951
still never seen a single person wishing we could go back to the bloom era

>>717765513
There’s some nostalgia for it, but more for the content and vibe of the games rather than the aesthetic.

>>717749816 (OP)
>we worked so hard on our twink simulator

>>717750264
>out argue this
lol
>>717751472
nothing but blank pages is the opposite of provocation

>>717749816 (OP)
Basically none of these games repeat the unfortunate side of these eras, I can't think of NES influenced indie games that have adapted slowdowns or sprite flickering for example.

>>717765513
Give it time. Soon the people who were kids in the ps360 era will be fuddy-duddy 30-somethings and we'll see a resurgence in good o'l brown n' bloom cover shooting.