Thread 717756475

>says there's more to life than picking the blue option or the red option
>game rewards you for consistently picking the same colored options
How could Kreia betray me like this?!

She needs rape correction

>>717756475 (OP)
>HOW COULD TRAYA TRAY ME

>tells you not to just blindly pick red or blue
>is full red herself

>>717756475 (OP)
And you wonder why all two of her disciples stabbed her in the back.

>>717761121
She claims she was one of Revan's teachers, too

She genuinely just wants you to think for yourself. And if your final conclusion is "You know, I think I want to be a good guy actually" she literally praises you at the end of the game.

>>717756475 (OP)
>muh rewards
you still have more to learn

>>717756475 (OP)
>>717762151
Don't care. Which choices give me the lightsaber crystal with better stats?

>>717756475 (OP)
Ludonarrative dissonance

>>717756475 (OP)
The point wasn't that you shouldn't utilize either side of the force and be completely grey. Kreia had 2 major points:
>she wanted you to make choices for yourself, not to just follow dogmas or make arbitrary decisions based on your side or predisposition
This is why every time you do something, she scolds you. She's not actually flaming you for your decision, she just wants you to explain why you did it so she can make you practice mindful decision making and so you show that you aren't just doing it "cuz someone/something told me to."
>she wanted to literally kill the force
Kreia believed that the force was a crutch and/or a handicap that prevented those of strong will from truly achieving their potential, and that by using the force to achieve your goals, you are inherently weakening yourself. Yes, she used the force because she also practiced and "ends justify the means" mentality. Also, if you want to go deep on this, she also probably wanted to just exterminate all life itself since destroying the force would literally kill every living thing.

>>717762146
She wanted you to think for yourself, but she also wanted you to choose to be by her side so she could use you to kill the force. Her praising you was only because you showed that you were stronger, and she remained true to her belief that the stronger should ultimately win out.

>>717762509
Jedi Guardian with Double-Sided Saber (not dual blade) is objectively the strongest lightsaber build in the game. I forget the exact crystals, but just take stuff that ups your attacks and your chance to land attacks. Master Force Speed + Master Flurry with Double-Sided Saber will one shot even the tankiest enemies on hard mode.

Take the greatest Jedi Knight, strip away the Force, and what remains?
You don’t even have any good skills Exile. You know like nunchak skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills. Girls only want Jedi who have great skills. Meditate on this.

The real answer is that Kreia is a failed sith and she's tied her own mind into knots trying to justify dropping out of the game as a sort of philisophical evolution, rather than her being a bitter loser after getting double teamed by Nihilus and Sion.

>>717761967
so that's why revan was schizophrenic in SWTOR

>>717756475 (OP)
I treat Darth Traya as non-canon and as the devs rushing to the finish line with a forced boss fight. This reveal destroys her character because she spends the entire game shitting on both sides only to come out and tell you she's a secret sith.

>>717765243
You can get enough influence with her in the opening hour on Peragus to trigger her "I'm going to betray you in the end" dialogue

>>717762665
>>she wanted to literally kill the force
This is bullshit she made the fuck up to set herself up as your villain and lead you to Scion
She wants the end of the Jedi, the Sith, and the Force's influence on the galaxy, not to literally nuke the Force

>>717765243
The whole fucking thing was a complete work to set you up to learn everything she can teach you and save the galaxy
Hell she would have absolutely been content to have you show the remaining Jedi what you've learned and how it can move the order forward into not relying absolutely on the Force, but they shut out anything you ir she says and tries to kill you instead, which makes her change to setting herself up as the final boss instead so you can start the order fresh

>>717765629
Anon, the Force is literally interwoven with all life in the galaxy. If you end its "influence" on the galaxy, you are literally ending life itself.
>not to literally nuke the Force
And yet she specifically sought you, the literal wound in the force that has the unique capability of not just killing things, but literally eating and destroying the force into an infinite void.

>>717756475 (OP)
She doesn’t ask you to not choose red or blue, but to think about why you choose red or blue

>>717766372
She sought you because you've had the Force's influence removed, not to use you as a bomb

You have failed me
Completely
And utterly

>tracks down and Force Bond with the Exile
>this puts him on Sion's shit list, forcing him to kill Sion
>points out that now his Force attunement is coming back Nihilus is going to kill him eventually, forcing him to kill Nihilus
>strongly suggest that the Jedi Council could maybe do something useful for once, setting them on the path to recover the coward assholes
>either the Exile spergs out and kills the Council or they prove themselves so worthless she has to kill them using the Exile as her weapon
>sets herself up as the final boss using the Force Bond as coercion to get rid of the last person she wants dead: herself

>be 13 years old
>do dark side route
>kill all jedi masters
>think kreia is going to be proud of me
>"YOU HAVE FAILED ME"
>literally tears you apart
>scene ends
>feel really bad for pissing off kreia

>>717756475 (OP)
She wants you to understand why you make the choices you do, and to make them because you thought them out. Blindly picking red options and blue options upsets Kreia because it reminds her that the force is the thing making the actual choices, it's a PTSD thing.

>>717766372
Anon, Kotor is built on the foundation of TotJ. And in TotJ the most severe Light Side power the Jedi have is the ability to completely sever someone from the Force, forever. The one not-quite-a-Sith guy they do it to survives intact, he goes back to being a good guy but as a Force Sensitive he's never completely at ease with being cut off from the Force completely.

The Exile did this to himself, just not completely. Kreia's entire fascination with the Exile is that he proves that someone can willingly end their reliance on the Force but at the same time her whole plan to manipulate and coerce him into action relies on their Force Bond. He's living proof an individual can decide to tell the Force to go fuck itself and then bring the Force back into their lives if they want to.

>>717765343
>"I'm going to betray you in the end" dialogue
first time I hear of this, can you find a video of it?

>>717762665
>since destroying the force would literally kill every living thing.
Nah mate, the Exile himself is proof that life can exist beyond the force. She also wants to kill the force because it literally writes the fate of trillions of beings. The force creates powerful force users in the Jedi and Sith, these guys inevitably concentrate great power into themselves and will repeatedly pull the entire galaxy into their conflicts.

>>717765243
Darth Traya isn't a reveal, it's not her "true self" like Sidious was to Palpatine. Traya was her final role, the one who holds the knowledge of betrayal. Just like everything else, it was about teaching the Exile a lesson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__gLIyeQYDU

Thread theme

>>717766520
She wanted both, she wanted to kill the force and the Exile was proof it could be done.

kreia was unknowingly or otherwise trying to prepare the galaxy for the yuuzhan vong. we know canderous has met their scouts

>>717765243
bro she literally explains she’s playing the role of le baddie so you can realize your fullest potential and make the decision to decide the fate of the galaxy you choose to make, earned by your right as the victor

>>717756475 (OP)
>old woman nags about everything you do
Is this what being married is like?

>>717768880
4000 years before the Vong showed up, you mean

>>717768880
Shit lore

>>717768989
just enough time for the galaxy to recover from the unexpected and sudden loss of the force

>the Force is constantly causing galaxy wide wars that result in billions of deaths because it's schizophrenic and keeps empowering evil space wizards
Kreia is right fuck the Force

>>717769297
I wonder if this what George imagined when he called it Star Wars.

>>717769297
The Force didn't do that. People did that. The Force can be unbalanced or fucked with by people in all sorts of ways.
She's just a Force luddite. If it weren't the Force, she'd blame technology or whatever for making it "too easy" to cause mass problems

>>717769470
Even without the force there would be plenty wars but rarely would they span the entire fucking Galaxy. The only reason people can even do that is because they have the force.

>>717769297
Smartest kotorfag with the mind of a 13 year old edgy teenager, faced with baby's first problem of evil, because mom won't let him smoke and forces him to do his homework instead of videogaming and masturbation.

>>717769578
Force users are so rare that the force becomes a legend that people aren't sure it even exists during the original trilogy. They don't need the force to have mass war.

>>717769470
The Force absolutely exacerbates the problem.Pretty much every galactic war on record is the result of a Jedi v Sith conflict of some flavor or another.
>>717769640
The difference between this and the usually "problem of evil" is that the Force is absolutely a quantifiable entity within the galaxy instead of a vague divine omniscient being.

>>717769875
The Republic might have been formed by normies but it is repeatedly stated that it is the Jedi who support and protect it. Without the Jedi the Republic could never exist like it did and of course Palpatine took the Republic and turned it into the Empire after removing, re-educating and reintegrating them into the fucking soil.

Besides, before the Ruusan Reformation and the Rule of Two the Sith would turn up in the tens of thousands every couple centuries or so.

>>717769895
You are a fucking retard. The Force doesn't make anyone do anything. People have free will and a choice, and they are responsible for their actions. Just like in real world, people fight and go to war all the time, only they can't use telekinesis or shoot lightning out of their fingertips. It's always Jedi v Sith, because it's fucking Star Wars, and people want to see Jedi and Sith fight - signature element of Star Wars setting. The core message of Star Wars is CHOOSING to be selfless and kind, not that there is some kind of evil demiurge in control of everything. KOTOR is dogshit fanfiction, perversion of a mythological fairy tale crafted by Lucas, made by rotten, edgy retard Chris Avellone, who hated Star Wars and made an OC mouthpiece to voice his butthurt. Anyone who likes that crap is a retard.

>>717769875
The Empire and all the conflict arising from it is due to the Emperor being a power hungry Sith. The Republic lasting in a state of relative peace for a thousand generations is because the Jedi Order were propping it up as peacekeepers. The war that ended the Republic was masterminded by the Sith even if it exploited legitimate issues, issues that were allowed to continue under the status quo created by the Jedi.

>>717756475 (OP)
The thing you have to understand is that Kreia is old, not wise. She's a fucking dumbass.

>>717770197
Lucas created the concept of a Chosen One, doubled down on the PT and OT being the fulfillment of Prophecy and Destiny, meaning Lucas directly says the Force caused the Clone Wars, the Empire and the destruction of Alderaan all so it could kill Palpatine.

George Lucas said that the Jedi order was 100% in the right

>>717770597
Right of heart, which is where the clones shot many of them.

>>717770445
Destiny does not negate the choice, you absolute cretin. You either follow your destiny or not. Anakin could have chosen not to become Darth Vader and fulfill his destiny in Revenge of the Sith by killing Palpatine when he had the chance. He didn't, because he chose not to, because he was selfish, greedy and possessive. The reason for prophecy existing is to give the story a mythological weight and to say that there are no Sith after Palpatine, he doesn't come back to life, and none of the EU fanfiction counts.

Actually Chara did it

>>717761121
not all of them did, but all the jedi she taught all turned to the dark side
that's what got her kicked out of the order
then she became a sith, but all the sith she taught hated her so they stabbed her in the back and kicked her out of the sith order
then she seethed for some amount of time before trying again with jedi jesus, who told her to fuck off

>>717771070
The Jedi Code, their teachings and their Order itself were flawed, even Zes-Kai Ell admitted that, even if he did let Vrook convince him in the end. I mean several times in their history the Jedi Order had dudes like pic related just show up, make a speech and have dozens of Jedi follow him on the spot and into the dark side, away from the council. Hell even Revan did that with a few hundred Jedi. Kreia taught her Padawan how to question themselves, the galazy and the Order and they decided to leave but did not have the strength of will to also question the dark side. Kreia herself never "fell" either. She walked away from the Jedi when she realized there was nothing more to lean and embraced the dark side so as to understand more of the galaxy.

>>717770698
>Destiny does not negate the choice, you absolute cretin.
You literally cannot know that. Anakin fulfilled his destiny. We have no examples of any characters in Star Wars defying their destiny. Maybe it's true that you can choose to avoid your destiny, but from what we can observe from the universe created by George Lucas, 100% of the time you have a listed destiny, you WILL fulfill it eventually.

>>717771812
Exar Kun convinced a bunch of dweebs he could teach them more than their masters and then had them all possessed by Sith ghosts from a holocron. Revan brought down the Order by defying the Council to do the right thing against the Mandalorians. Out of the two only Revan actually challenged the status quo of the increasingly stagnant Jedi dogma.

>>717772265
You are a cretin and can't read. I suggest you do it again.

>>717758250
Well it's an Avellone game.

>>717772341
Exar Kun wasn't the only example though I forgot the details and Revan was indeed a special case, his intention were pure not just during the Mandalorian wars but also when he returned. There are several mentions in both games about how he never crippled the Republics production capabilities even if he had the strength to do so. I can't help but wonder how it would have turned out if the council had followed Revan into the war, leading the campaign even if he did all the strategic decisions.

>>717756475 (OP)
It's a metacommentary on how the universe is devoid of nuance and enForces a shallow dichotomy of light and dark everyone is sorted into.

>>717762665
How can saberstaff be the strongest when it gets half as many upgrades as dual wielding?

>>717770445
>meaning Lucas directly says the Force caused the Clone Wars
Palpatine did that, using the Force

>>717766738
Pay attention to the dialog there. Kreia asks you if you feel fulfilled and satisfied, having killed the masters. But every option you can choose is simply a variation of
>No. I must kill more.
This shows that the Exile, despite whatever intentions they had in killing the masters, has succumbed to the Dark Side, willingly. There is no catharsis or resolution, and just the same endless hunger as Nihilus that will consume everything until just a husk of the Exile remains.

The only way to be Dark Side and not trigger Kreia to believe you're a failure is to restrain yourself from killing the masters.

>>717770197
>People have free will and a choice, and they are responsible for their actions.
Did Anakin actually have a choice, when he was destined to kill Sidious and destroy the Sith?

He just took a circuitous route to the same destination.

>Mass Shadow Generator exploits weakenesses in Malachor V's geology to kill thousands and crush the planet
>all the Jedi present die screaming save for two who became horrible wounds in the Force itself
>Death Star utterly destroys Alderaan, killing billions of sentients, millions of animals, death and destruction on a scale never before seen
>Vader tanks it point blank without issue, Obi-Wan comments how it felt kind of wack

Old Republic? More like Sissy Republic.

>>717773710
>Sidious needs to use a machine to kill a planet like a fucking nerd
never gonna make it

>>717773710
Malachor killed a fuck ton of Jedi, that's bound to affect the Force a lot more than killing some planet full of Star Wars muggles.

>>717774174
Not to mention years of gruelling campaigns with almost constant fighting. I also don't remember if Nihilus and the Exile where on the planet itself or not.

>>717776767
Right Brianna, left Kreia.

>>717769297
>>717769381
look up the stuff george said about the force and the chosen one prophecy, this is true

>>717756475 (OP)
She's a woman and like a woman her mind is a maze of mental gymnastics to benefit her at the expense of others

>>717770197
Nobody chose to be born Force-sensitive.

>>717778463
How low IQ can zoomers be? Women, hell, 99% of people are very simple minded and easy to figure out.

>eyes covered with veil
>lipstick