Thread 717792087

Are the monsters in Silent Hill actual people or just figments of your imagination?

>>717792087 (OP)
I'd argue that the monsters are real, so long as you ignore the Bad Ending in SH1. The monsters actively kill, harm, and chase characters besides the protagonist in each game. Also, the monsters often symbolize issues related to characters you don't control. I don't think they're humans either.

I always viewed SH as being a version of hell/purgatory depending on the game. A separate dimension of sorts that pulls people in, but will leave the area itself seemingly untouched. It's the reason people comment on the town normally being a decent vacation spot; because none of this stuff really happens in reality. Whether it's the cult's doing or some mental hellscape, the world and creatures are very real, but to that specific dimensional pocket of sorts.

>>717792087 (OP)
They're all mental projections turned flesh.

>>717792473
>I always viewed SH as being a version of hell/purgatory depending on the game. A separate dimension of sorts that pulls people in
It's none of that.

>>717792087 (OP)
i think whats cool about stuff like this is that you dont really know if they're real or not, or even a mix of the two. the vagueness makes it more fun for some reason

>>717792654
>It's none of that.

Don't really think there's a definitive answer anon. All evidence that goes to it being a mental projection could be used to argue that it's a pocket dimension of sorts that creates monstrosities based around an individual's experience. Which could be an outright description of a hell.

Like I said, I viewed it that way. Especially since you have characters who are pulled into other versions of Silent Hill without any real consideration of who they are (see SH4).

>>717792961
>Don't really think there's a definitive answer anon
There are. Official and documented.

The town's region is known to be "spiritually strong", with a natural power the natives used in their rituals, and the pioneer Christians that settled in would later adapt.
SH1 has one alpha projection, Alessa's, who was clearly influenced by said power since birth.
2 is an aftermath of 1, with the entire region's power being sort of cracked, running on auto-pilot. This' why there's multiple micro-projections going on at once, often merging and influencing one another.
3 goes back to 1, and SH4 is another case of external alpha projection consuming all, further solidifying the "someone's nightmarish delusions come alive" statement.

>>717792087 (OP)
They're real, but only for you.

>>717793302
Literally everything you posted could be interpreted with demonic forces in mind considering what the cult summoned in SH1. It could also be pocket dimensions, mental projections, tons of things. Don't let your autism make it black and white anon. Half the point of the series is interpretation of themes and how everything works.

>>717792087 (OP)
SH1 they are monsters from Alessa's nightmare
SH2 they are symbolic
SH3 some of them are cultists

they're zombies created by the UFOs

>>717793714
this

>>717792087 (OP)
>Silent Hill 1
The Monsters are real. You are dragged into the Otherworld of Alessa and the enemies you face are manifestations from her psyche.
>Silent Hill 2
The Monsters are not real. Instead of Alessa's Otherworld, Silent Hill creates a side-story where in its dormancy, it attracts multiple other characters and introduces them to their own manifestations.
>Silent Hill 3
The Monsters are real and just like in Silent Hill 1, you aren't in the player character's Otherworld. Instead, you're in Claudia's Otherworld with manifestations from her psyche that represent her views of Alessa instead of Heather.
>Silent Hill 4
The Monsters are real. Some parts are unclear if they're in the Otherworld or not, but what is clear is that each area is a part of Walter's nightmare with its monsters being his victims.

>>717794853
They're also real in SH Homecoming, many characters face the monsters together there too.

Angels to some, demons to others.

Silent Hill F(lop)

general red flags:
>80€ for a AA game from a chink studio (their first own game after only doing RE:Verse)
>UE5 (asset store animations & unoptimized af)
>japanese setting (silent hill PHENOMENON)
>piss easy puzzles, with hinako telling you the solutions
>constant 'anime' grunting
>enemies look like straight out of homecoming / downpour (dolls, mine bats)
>every enemy gets introduced by screeching into the camera like a soulsboss
>only one ending on first playthrough, you have to play it several times to get the whole story
>not even a mainline SH, but a spin-off (just a rebranded horror game)

gameplay:
>action-focused SOULSLOP
>RNG stats faggotry (currency called 'faith' can be traded for gacha buffs like in book of memories)
>hit-stop on every hit (enemies don't actually react to being hit)
>teleportation-tier dodging
>no guns, only melee weapons
>weapon durability (you have to repair weapons with repair kits; you can only carry 3 weapons)
>focus mode after 'perfect parry' with slo-mo; sanity meter depleting on every action; at 0 sanity inability to move, meaning you might get softlocked; (konami didn't want to show these in gameplay footage)
>most enemies cannot be outrun, you have to fight

story:
>female protag (schoolgirl drama with woke gender theory themes)
>hinako refuses to 'abide by the patriarchy' by rejecting her role as a female while also being the most beautiful in her class (lmao) and being bullied by her envious peers for it
>hinako's sister was "ruined" by marriage (anti marriage, anti-natalist)
>hinako's parents are in an abusive relationship (anti-relationship, anti-monogamy)
>extremely woke with the most outragious content deep into the game, so that you can't refund anymore

SH 1 REMAKE WILL BE KINO THOUGH

>>717792087 (OP)
Spoilers below.

Silent hill was a place built on some native american holy site which made people go crazy. Anyone who goes to silent hill ends up imagining things that arent there.
Its a projection of their biggest fears and what they see varies from person to person.
In angelas world silent hill is on fire. James ends up seeing Angelas dad but shes probably seeing him differently.
As for Eddie he imagines the world hates him for being fat.
This is also why Laura doesnt see any monsters brcause she is too innocent.
Maria is also not really there either, thats why theres no interaction between her and anyone else but james.

>>717793302
zoomers don't know this though, as the stuff was censored for being offensive to indians lmao

I'd imagine some of them are real but I don't believe it would be impossible for the town to make you believe a person was a monster either.
Alternatively, maybe they're reflections of real people in the town but aren't physically them.

>>717792087 (OP)
both

>>717792087 (OP)
They are manifestations of the town but still very real. Though the first monster James kills doesn't fight back at all, and if you return to the place later in the game it's taped off like a crime scene.

>>717795852
>Its a projection of their biggest fears and what they see varies from person to person.
Man, so if i go to Silent Hill, i'll see myself high up in the sky on skyscrapers constantly near balconies while sea sharks chase me down?? s-s-sign me up!
(i have fear of heights and fear of the deep ocean lol)

I wish they went with the purgatory angle

>>717792087 (OP)
>Muh survival horror gaym
>Muh 5 bullets
>Muh inventory focused slop
This shit genre can't die fast enough

>>717792087 (OP)
I think the movie, in all it's glorious slop, asks a very good question. Can you ever truly leave Silent Hill or will a bit of yourself be trapped there forever?

>>717792816
no what's cool about it is that it's all real and actually happening, that's the horror angle of it. it's not scary if it's OOOOHHH JUST ALL IN YOUR MIND. who cares if a cult is going to summon a demon god and usher in the apocalypse if it's ALL IN HARRY'S MIND???? who cares if Heather is going to birth a demon god and usher in the apocalypse IF IT'S ALL IN HER MIND OOOOH SO SCARY!!!!!

>>717793435
the town has a history of paranormal things happening there. was everyone who ever encountered something spooky just hallucinating it? that's fucking retarded. the series doesn't work if all the main characters are just crazy hallucinating everything. it's not scary if it's not literally happening.

SH has a set meaning, everything isn't "open for interpretation" so you can imagine things that aren't there. things like weird horror rooms that don't serve a story purpose and just exist to creep you out, or the non-interactive monsters like the prisoner are things open for interpretations. the events of the games and the mechanisms of the series are not, these are all explained.

>>717792087 (OP)
How fucking hard is it to understand the concept of mind turning into matter? That's all the town, and its power, does. It is both imagined and real. Maria was "born from a wish" and does not exist in the perspective of anyone but James (and spirits/spiritually aligned people like Baldwin, whatever it is that you believe he is), but she is absolutely a living being that occupies physical space. Furthermore, she receives third-party influence (Memories from Maria that even James did not know about, like her friendship with Laura) despite being "bound" to James. Even more so with the Maria ending in consideration, where James leaves town with her, fated to repeat the same mistakes again. She is both imagined and real. The same applies to everything in the series. The rusty bloody hellscape in Silent Hill 1 is related to Alessa's physical and mental scarring, the monsters are literal nightmares of hers and things she hates, and everything is very much real.

>>717792087 (OP)
In 1 they're demons that manifest based on Alessa's torment. In 2 they manifest in forms that torment sinners. In 3 they manifest as sexual/fetal creatures that herald the rebirth of Samael in corporeal form. In 4 it's based on Walter's victims and delusions. In everything else, they're aping the movie or missing the point

>>717794853
>>Silent Hill 2
>The Monsters are not real.
yes they are. everything the town manifests is real. the entire point of Silent Hill is that it's capable of giving flesh to dreams and subconscious ideas that aren't meant to be physically real, tainted by the power of the demon god summoned by the cult. it's why the manifestations are so disturbing and twisted.

>>717797431
>I think the movie, in all it's glorious slop
I think the first movie was great, they did a great job with the atmosphere, it's just the plot that went a bit weird to say the least and diverged from the game's lore a bit.. the ending was also kinda meh at best.
im quite optimistic about the next SH movie; the director is quite a fan himself.. i hope he does the SH2 plotline justice

>>717798051
the main reason the SH movie was good was the cinematographer who isn't working on this one, instead it's some 20-something no name

>>717798015
They are not real. If somebody goes to Silent Hill during the time in SH2, they will receive a personalized hell for them which may or may not include monsters.
If two people go, they'll each get their own to death with with their own monsters.
Unless Person B has an extreme reaction to something, they can't influence Person A's otherworld and vice versa, so if Person A has no monsters and Person B has monsters, Person A will be safe due to not needing to avoid things.
In SH1, 3, and 4, these monsters are all from a single source affecting multiple people and don't require any significant interference in order for two people to see the same thing. It's only SH2 that has this, hence why Laura can just run around without issue or why SH4's escort quests are so fucking annoying.

>>717798928
If the monsters in SH2 are just mental projections then there would be no way James would be able to see the abstract daddy

The monsters themselves are real but their appearance changes depending on who sees them. Angela would view pyramid head in a similar James saw her father. They can also be invisible for some people hence why Laura can’t see them

>>717798928
Abstract Daddy fight literally contradicts this lol. the manifestations are real. not everyone sees the same thing always, we can see that the Nightmare is different for Eddie and Angela. but that's just reality changing around them. everything is always on fire, always frozen for those characters, that's how the town changes around them. without Alessa the power tainted by the demon god has run amok so people who visit the town influence it the way Alessa did, just on a smaller scale.

>>717799319
>>717799686
It literally does not contradict anything

>>717799736
if none of the manifestations are real then James wouldn't be able to see the Abstract Daddy at all because that's one of Angela's manifestations, and if the monsters aren't real how could James see someone else's monster?

also Masahiro Ito confirmed that we only see manifestations in SH2 from the subjective point of view of James. Angela sees the Abstract Daddy differently from James.

>>717799686
Otherworlds being slightly influenced by other people is a subtle but reocurring thing throughout the series. 2 has the other "sinners" otherworlds bleed into James', Eddie with the corpses and cold rooms and Angela with the flesh and fire. 3's is pretty blatant, Claudia brings it out but Alessa's influence quickly takes hold through Heather. 4 has that freaky Eileen room and perhaps something else I can't recall right now. I'm sure there's some small Harry influence somewhere in 1 too.
This is unrelated to the discussion, I just thought it was interesting.

>>717799319
>"Seen from the point of view of James Sunderland, it serves as both an abstract manifestation of Angela Orosco's sexual trauma and the memories of James's terminally ill wife."

Abstract daddy is just a representation he has.
Angela probably sees him differently.
Each monsters represents a coping mechanism for their traumes

>>717792473
>Also, the monsters often symbolize issues related to characters you don't control
Only really applicable to SH1 and some sections of SH2.
I think Silent Hill is a Freddy Krueger type deal if he was a place instead of an individual, and it definitely works with the relation of the deeper otherworld being tied to REM sleep.
So there's the base level of brain fuckery which requires you to first lure the guy into the town so you can exert your influence on them. For what goal? No fucking clue whatsoever except human suffering

>>717800237
Pretty important that the entire first game explicitly takes place in a hell formed around someone else's consciousness.

Also, valtiel. He's not formed by anyone's thoughts or a representation of anything. He's an actual guy. Same as leonard, though he's an odd duck.

>>717800221
Yes James and Angela both see abstract daddy as different things, but the fact they both see him proves he’s real


Angela would be able to see Pyramid Head but he would look different for her

>>717800030
my favorite sequence in the entire series is the prison to the maze in SH2. the maze is fascinting to me. it reminds me of how people could glitch cartridge games to render things using random junk memory like the negative worlds in Super Mario Bros. for NES, or stuff like Missingno in Pokemon. like the situation is so insane, you're so deep in the subconscious that the spiritual power of the town can't render what's happening and it's just using random "assets" from around the town to try to make sense of it all.

>>717800221
>Angela probably sees him differently.
Masahiro Ito said as much on twitter last year when the remake came out when he was discussing the red coloring on the Abstract Daddy. also because the justification for Abstract Daddy appearing as a filler monster in the hotel (they just needed some 'new' monster to mix things up) is that James saw something of himself in the monster, while Angela sees her rape, James sees his smothering Mary.

>>717800237
>Only really applicable to SH1 and some sections of SH2.
some manifestations in SH3 were more related to Alessa and Claudia than Heather. SH4 was also all based on Walter and his victims, not Henry.

>I think Silent Hill is a Freddy Krueger type deal if he was a place instead of an individual, and it definitely works with the relation of the deeper otherworld being tied to REM sleep.
pretty sure Keiichiro Toyama described it this way, the reason you have the Nightmare segments is because it works like phases of sleep due to the demon god sleeping in Alessa.

>>717800440
makes me wish Maria got a chance to interact with the other characters, would have been interesting to see her play off of their inner demons.

>>717800440
Wrong.
The whole story of SH2 is about a lonely schizo fag who is un denial that he murdered his wife. He goes to Silent hill to randomly murder some random fat guy who killed a dog. Meanwhile theres a random traumatized femcel woman wandering about threatning to cut herself up. All of them are imaginig things that arent there.
From Lauras prespective they are all retarded and she should stay away from them.

Sad story when you think about it likw that but thats really whats going on.

>>717797286
Dangerousky based

>>717800908
because the way the town works is it manifests things from the darkness inside of you, if you're young, innocent and lack that darkness the town holds no power over you. her brain is also underdeveloped, it specifically taps into subconscious portion of the mind. the asylum director notes in SH2 talk about this, how there was a patient who was always slipping into the nightmare, how some of it is down to the individual person.

>>717792087 (OP)
What does he smell like?