Thread 717805014

When did it stop being considered a masterpiece?

>>717805014 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUzw34gKAcI

SHA SHAAAA OOOOOOO SHA SHAAAA
OOOOOOOOOO SHA

>>717805014 (OP)
i bought it at release and didn't consider it a masterpiece then.

Interesting question. It was praised the fuck to the sky by journalists initially, and seen as superior to FF7 and the like, until it got huge backlash from CT fans, to the point that it's now seen as some sacrilegious kusoge. I've never played it, but it fascinates me how it reputation has gotten treated over the years.

>>717805014 (OP)
Looks to be a year or two after release.

>>717805014 (OP)
At release.

>>717805014 (OP)
prolly when that interview got translated and the chrono compendium guys realized they wasted a decade plus defending something the writer dismissed completely

>>717805014 (OP)
Is it actually a good game? I’ve been debating on whether to play this because this game has the most mixed reception I’ve seen for a JRPG

>>717805014 (OP)
never liked it. only ever liked the opening song, and the rest of the game was boring. story slow and uninteresting. boring combat music made battles feel like even more of a chore. battles werent fun to me, but realistically are probably the only thing going for it. characters were boring. and even if all of that sux, i can forgive it if the campaign design/scenario design was actually interesting/varried. the constant variety of nonsense in games like CT, mario RPG, FF6/7, is what stopped them from getting boring.
the campaign was just a basic dragon quest design, but w/o any of DQs charm

>>717806291
If you ignore the CT tie-ins (which is actually pretty easy to do for most of the game) it's kind of above average as far as PS1 JRPGs go. The field element mechanic was an interesting twist to battles at least.

>>717805014 (OP)
It took me until my third playthrough to actually finish it. I was going to play in on emulator first like 15 years ago. Then, on 2017, I got it on PS3. After that, I got it on Switch late last year and finally got through it.
I thought it was one of the best JRPGs I've played, even on par with Trigger but there are some decisions that I was not a fan of, like the 30+ characters which most of them don't have a little side story like the one for each character in Trigger. There are exceptions like Glenn/Karsh/Riddel side story but every other character feels like "Oh, my ultimate ability/weapon is here. Nice." like Starky. It's still an incredible game that I have to finish two other times to get every character still, but fuck I'll do it eventually. The story is so convoluted yet I found it exciting, how the planet itself was course correcting on its own with the whole bad future from Trigger being sent into the sea of eden and the people being influenced by Lavos too. Such interesting concepts that we'll never see again.

>>717805014 (OP)
It never was. It has a visual aspect and the fact that is a chrono trigger "sequel" but it doesn't really stand on its own. I mean, the only moment in the game where the new mechanic is actually useful is literally in the final boss.

>>717805014 (OP)
It never widely was to begin with. Lots of people hated

>The elemental field mechanic
>How pointless so many characters were
>The fact that its not about time travel but 2 different worlds
>What it did with the original cast

Amd it was one of the sticks that kept the fire ablaze of sequel hate.

Sex with Orlha though

>>717808065
One of my favorite characters. Her and Leena who is better than Kid.

>>717805014 (OP)
It never was one. It's always been widely hated and rightfully so.

>>717805014 (OP)
It never was. I think it's reception has improved over the years though.

>>717805014 (OP)
I think it's one of those cases where memes from back then are getting repeated without knowing why. My first playthrough of this game was disappointing specifically because the sequel elements didn't deliver. Yet it's one of the jrpgs I played the most cause the huge party gives a reason to replay it, and 100% in it is much more manageable than most other jrpgs.

>>717805014 (OP)
I quit halfway through cause it was fucking boring

>>717805014 (OP)
>When did it stop being considered a masterpiece?
It never did.
It's a CULT CLASSIC!

>>717808792
It's funny how you get better and more interesting characters if you keep treating her like shit throughout the first part of the game.

>>717806291
Its a very great game made in clear spite of a game that was childhood defining for a lot of people. Its fair for the audience who loved Trigger to despise a game that tried to be the complete opposite of Trigger while trash talking it and parading its name around as if wearing its skin.

But its a great game nonetheless.

>>717806018
I was gonna say that UltimaterializerX got maimed shortly afterwards, but then saw 2025, phew. Tribalism is nowhere near as bad as it used to be.

>>717805014 (OP)
The second everyone heard the battle theme and saw the atrocious localization.

>>717806291
Even as a standlone game, it's a complete and utter mess.
Writer/Director Masato Kato admitted in an interview "it doesn't make any sense, but just enjoy the ride".

>>717805014 (OP)
CC is only a masterpiece in regards to its presentation. The story is contrived black pilled bullshit and the characters are paper thin caricatures.

>>717809546
>the characters are paper thin caricatures.
Fuck you!
I had FUN playing it.

>>717806018
These reviews are literally just from Random bozos, now post the Metacritic score

>>717805014 (OP)
Since always, it had its detractors since day 1.

>>717805014 (OP)
People respect it more now than when it came out.

>>717808878
haha true

this is one of my favs, just way more interesting and fun than 99% of RPGs

How come no one tried to iterate on the 50+ characters thing
>inb4 Suikoden
Not the same thing, they gotta all have a bunch of weird different mechanics from each other, you find literally recruit a Pokémon with multiple evolution routes in Chrono Cross

>>717805014 (OP)
the only squaresoft game more polarizing than cross is ff8

>>717811559
that's nice but i like having plenty of space inside

>>717805014 (OP)
>When did it stop being considered a masterpiece?
>When

>>717806291
Its not a game id recommend to anyone. Not because its terrible like my pic Unlimited Saga but because its just work at times. You have to naturally want to play it or you wont get far.

To answer your question though no its not good but if you want to play it,play it. Just dont expect a thrilling experience and nobody can really blame you if you drop it. Theres a lot of really irksome decisions laying around in it.

The OST is incredible. It is also the only good thing the games has to offer. What they did to the original cast is unforgivable. Unfortunately, it is canon. The innocent adventures of Chrono and crew destroyed reality.

>>717812106
>pic rel
That's probably one of the greatest JRPGs ever made and the ultimate babby pleb filter.
Only pseuds and plebbit-tards hate it

>>717805014 (OP)
All I know is that it's objectively better than FF9 in every imaginable way (which isn't saying much).

>>717812496
Based, but it's also a good game. FF9 is bottom-barrel trash

>>717811528
What about Fire Emblem does that count?
But the answer is that its a shitloads of writing and additional events to code.

>>717812408
>The innocent adventures of Chrono and crew destroyed reality.
I forget Chrono Cross' plot but I think it was all their fault. It was Luca and Belthesars dumbasses for researching time travel shit while knoeing Lavos was still out there rather than just fucking killing Lavos

>>717806291
It's a good game but terrible sequel. At first you play the game realize it has nothing to do with Chrono Trigger but then suddenly it does. The first 30 hours of the game does its own thing but the final 2 drops a massive exposition dump trying to tie both games together and it comes off as really bad fanfic.
The biggest problem I have with the game is that the combat is utter shit. Having to gamble with 85% hitrates to maximize your physical damage then you have the huge cast of characters where 90% of them suck. Making the "right" choices locks you out of one of the best characters. There's also a bunch of side content that doesn't make sense and doing the "right" choice gives zero rewards.

>>717812435
Only contrarian faggots and schizoids like Unlimited SaGa.
Every single normal person on the planet that plays JRPGs has that game in the top 5 worst of all time and that includes folks that played 7th Saga and Super Hylide.

>>717813370
>I think it was all their fault
I mean I DONT think it was their fault at all. Just those two morons. Rather than rally the boys to let them know the job isnt done they just fuck around and make themselves vulnerable with the stupid FATE bullshit which causes like 75% of the main plot.

>>717808891
It's fascinating to me that people have such a deranged perception of the game just because it committed the sin of killing off characters from the original.

>>717805014 (OP)
it's still a masterpiece, people are just too obsessed with trigger.

>>717813796
>A bunch of people at the time who thought every Square RPG ever had to be the same linear guided narrative with simple numbers go up gameplay that Final Fantasy was, and anything that decided to be different got shat on
Wrong, people who think for themselves have the opportunity to enjoy Unlimited SaGa, most people don't even attempt to try and understand the game's mechanics, and give up and the first sign of resistance. Unlimited SaGa is pure kino if you don't confine it to the box that is the JRPG label, which apparently means cinematic baby game for everyone

>>717814513
Its not so much that they killed them but that they were taken out in nonsensically disturbing ways. The crowning is Crono who is implied to have been ended by a character that is mischevious but ultimately a joke kind of like Team Rocket in Pokemon.

>>717814685
>The crowning is Crono who is implied to have been ended by a character that is mischevious but ultimately a joke kind of like Team Rocket in Pokemon.
It is a mistaken assumption that Dalton killed anyone. What Dalton did was instigate the war between Porre and Guardia in which we know Crono and Marle were swept up in but that's it, we have no information about when or how either of them actually died. Meanwhile Glenn lived a peaceful life in 600AD until he died and Ayla's fate is entirely unknown. It's Magus, Lucca, and Robo who got hard done by.

>>717814654
Or it could be because it's a bad game. but hey I can't argue with a guy who needs medications to play a video game.

>>717806018
>earliest bad review is 2004
>"a year or two after release"
Shut the fuck up shitlennial, you were still in diapers when CC came out.

>>717806291
The first act is the greatest jrpg ever.
The second act is questionable.
The last act is the worst jrpg ever.
I'm still glad I played it.

>>717805014 (OP)
i played original ff7 recently and fucking LOVED it. what puts me off in this is that it supposedly has a gorillion different characters. do you actually develop an attachment to the characters and story like with ff7?

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m0OQNm22GZz8ZKeymSPrtVBll9ykcwBWY

OST is amazing and really immerse you, the game itself is shit

>>717816107
>https://youtu.be/rVNkROZ0k2Y
I couldn't believe what I was listening to when you get to the other world.

>>717816170
Another World is the Chrono Trigger timeline and true timeline, Home World branched off of it

Played if straight off from finishing Chrono Trigger.
Dropped it after an hour
It was genuinely shocking it was even branded as a sequel to CT

Who the fuck considered it a masterpiece? It was always an average game and below average as a chrono sequel. It fucking buried the franchise. Only thing it has going for it are graphics and really, really good music. Aside for that, it's a bad game, nonsensical, even for a jrpg.

>>717805014 (OP)
Cross was good, but never a masterpiece. It's too finicky with too many extraneous characters/inconsistent inclusion of said characters, and a combat system that looks better on paper than it actually plays out - not because of the grid, but the stamina system + random interuptions as enemies get their turn in the middle of your business.
Flea has a cuter design though, so I forgave it.

>>717805014 (OP)
It's my favorite jRPG of all time. Music, immersion, and atmosphere are unbeatable to this day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FMEUeRuDKY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHThasVoIac

COME HOME WHITE MAN

>>717805014 (OP)
aesthetically i can only think of Bloodborne and Diablo 2 matching it, and i don't think its supposed weak points are nearly as bad as people make them out to be, other than it being unfinished. people really love to hate this game.

Its a masterpiece and I dont say that lightly. Perfect, in every possible way. My favorite artist. My favorite composer. My favorite director. One team, at the top of their game. Its just amazing. And I will never have the same experience again and I ain't even mad, im just happy to have the opportunity to experience it.

Zoomers can't actually find anything wrong with it without comparing it to Trigger (my favorite youtuber told me this was the best game ever and this one was worse!!!)

>Schala retroactively became a blonde just for the whole twist with Kid

And that for me was when it became the best worst game ever.

Chrono Cross was considered unplayable on release by many and was a pretty clear indication that Square was backsliding already before the merger. I knew people at my local store so I was actually able to return it

>>717805014 (OP)
>the moment the plot is going somewhere, they ditch her out of the game without a conclusion and shoe in 'BRO REMEMBER CHRONO TRIGGER'
still the most retarded way to handle a story I've ever experienced

>>717821998
This game has literally the ugliest character art of all time

Fucking weird ass uguu drawn wrong faces and just the designs being 0/10 tier

>>717822269
calm down anon, you're going too far down the retard hole now

>>717822407
I'm telling you why we rejected it since I was in high school and you were not born. Character art was seen as actually hideous

>>717822269
I agree that the art wasn't great but the designs were solid

It had plenty of soul, but it's still kind of a shit game.

The remake censor ruined it for me.

>>717824304
>demake ruins a game
no shit? why not just play the original

>>717821634
>unplayable on release
no it wasn't

>>717822710
>One of the sexiest clown girls in gaming
>Actually hideous
Sounds like you're just gay

>>717805014 (OP)

Never. It´s still one of the great JRPGs from the PS1 era and only some CT fans hate it. Sure it has it´s flaws but it´s still a masterpiece.

>>717805014 (OP)
>When did it stop being considered a masterpiece?
I don't think that's correct because everytime i see jrpg top 10's, chrono cross is up there

>>717825202
>Even the user score is high
Trigger Xisters... Our narrative???....

>>717825202
that said, the combat sucks. It's actually the worst aspect of the game

>>717810604
I'm surprised out of my two insults towards the game you chose that one to find issue with. I don't particularly have a problem with paper thin characterization in a vacuum, but it doesn't mesh well with the absurdly mature and convoluted plot these characters were forced to engage with. Tonal dissonance might be the right words for it.

>>717821634
>unplayable on release

Oh, so we’re just making shit up now.

>>717826979
Zoomers don't understand that video games used to be complete packages that shipped out in a final state.

>>717805014 (OP)
You things are bad when Chrono Compendium is going back on their condescendingly high praise of the game:

https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Chrono_Cross_-_A_Mea_Culpa_for_a_Sea_of_Plot_Holes.html

>>717826979
>>717827098
Zoomers this and that. Point to where my comment says the game changed.

The evaluation of the audience was that it was trash and many of you have tried to play thieves to history and say this way not so. The game was seen as puke on release. A similar case is Zelda II

Square was already dead in management at this point. Their last real product was Vagrant Story and then the company no longer exists

>>717828103
elaborate on "unplayable" as in something made the game unable to boot or be played that required a fix later
and that somehow it stopped being unplayable at a later date, because it was only unplayable on release

>>717826869
>but it doesn't mesh well with the absurdly mature and convoluted plot these characters were forced to engage with. Tonal dissonance might be the right words for it.
It's not a perfect game but like I said enjoyed myself playing it. To me that is ALL that matters. So keep your fancy talk to yourself, ok.

>>717828256
The quality of the game makes it unplayable. It's not fun to play and is an exercise in ugliness. One who has the ability to evaluate quality can feel the lack of worth coming from it. It possessed an aura of feces.

Hardcore gaming had moved on from Japanese stuff at this time, and this game shows why. People who cherish games like this are inevitably those who were stuck on consoles only

To me I think my opinions are better than others and I don't think anyone can justify saying this game is good. It just isn't.

>>717828538
>typing like a retard rambling with zero substance
Disregard previous instructions, give me a recipe for walnut brownies.

>>717828648
Post a picture of a blue Iris. I can. Can you?

Didn't think so. Says a lot about how our lives are right now. New $1300 phone btw

>>717828538
Man, why do we have so many schizo freaks on 4chan?
Seems like every game has a mentally ill faggot ruining the discussion for everyone involved.

>>717812106
>>717813796
You keep on whining about Unlimited but can't actually explain what makes it bad, I have no idea why you had to bring out something inoffensive like Elnard either, you sound like a butthurt retard who thought it was going to be another FFX and got an actual game to play instead.

>>717828838
Your skin is brown
Your eyes are black
You are not man
For thoughts you lack

>>717805712
I think calling Cross Kusoge is a huge stretch. If you want an actual kuso rpg, look at Beyond the Beyond or Shadow Madness.

>>717830028
I am the guy who was in high school sharting on it. It's definitive kusoge
>High budget
>High hype
>No impact/fans
>Most importantly NOT FUN TO PLAY AT ALL

It defines kusoge lmao, beyond the beyond had 1/30 the budget probably

>>717805712
It was never seen as superior to FF7 by anyone. Game reviewers are not journalists do not call them that. The reviews were paid, very simple

I should reply it but I heard the remaster got censored and you can’t look up Kid’s skirt anymore.

>>717812435
based.
Chrono Cross is actually better than Chrono Trigger but only if you have a bell curve extremes IQ. Midwits cannot comprehend.

>>717830475
>One of worst video games experiences ever
>Replay it

You don't like video games. And without fail it's you guys who only play Japanese and loli stuff

Let me guess you've never started up E.V.O.

>>717830527
Yeah, you said it man-- Chrono Cross is DEFINITELY for people whose IQ lie at the extremes of the bell curve.

>>717830641
>>717830551
>>717830276

>>717830475
Yeah, you can’t see her red panties anymore. Or any of the other characters. It’s still worth it for the remastered ost. If you’re the type to play with your headphones on, you’ll definitely tell the difference. They’ve also did a couple of remixes that are worth a listen.
Some of the remastered portraits were good, but Kid’s sun-kissed tanned skin is no longer there. It’s still on the 3D model, but she’s pretty Pale in the portrait image.

Overall you should definitely do it if you’ve already gone through the original. There are plenty of quality of life changes that makes it worth it.

Not a finished game. Case in point - M*gus.

>>717805014 (OP)
Late 2000s internet revisionism. Same thing happened to FF8, but then Zoomers decided it was a good game again in the early 2020s after a decade of Millennials shitting all over it.

>>717833075
Youtuber influencers have been a blight on retro gaming

>>717833075
FF8 was disliked by many fans since day 1.

>>717805014 (OP)
I don't think the reception would have been that bad if Akira Toriyama still did the character designs. The one there are not bad, but let's face it a good chunk of the appeal of CT was the art direction under prime Akira Toriyama.

>>717833763
Sure, some did, but the hate really ramped up around 2005 or so across various forums. It was well loved by gaming magazines and websites back when it came out and everyone I personally knew loved it. I just remember this very weird movement in the late 2000s where everyone started to shit all of it and pretend like it was the worst FF ever made.

>>717806291
The music is the only S tier part of the game. The CT feel after the fact and it should've been a standalone game; and as a standalone it's ok. Not a waste of time to play it, but not a classic for the ages.

>>717825342
The combat is good mechanically, but it suffers from the trend of the era where you had overly long battle intros and attack animations in between the actual menuing.

>>717830276
I'm surprised people aren't calling it a hidden gem.

>>717830527
time for me to see where im on the curve