Thread 717909508

Why is he the villain again? Both of them.

>>717909508 (OP)
Because he's old

he wants me to stop playing video games

Because Big Boss humiliated him 20 years ago.

>>717909605
just like my dad fr

>>717909508 (OP)
because mom said so

He isn't.

The only villain in the game is Maelle/Alicia.

>>717909508 (OP)
He's an antagonist but not a villain. E33 is a villain protagonist game.

>>717909756
That would be Verso

>>717909815
Right answer

>>717909756
Pa*nters are the villains. Writers did nothing wrong.

>>717909508 (OP)
He isn't
Both are 100% justified and take no joy in it

>>717909825

Verso is the hero of the story

>>717910030
No he isnt

>>717909902
Didnt the writers burn a kid alive and kill someone?

>>717909756
Aline is the only villain
Alicia resorting to escapism is understandable since she's 16. That is a grown ass woman with a huge responibility as the head of the painters council. She said fuck everyone and everything, jumped in her son's canvas, gave life to a ton of people and made them suffer just to be with a fake verso, who also suffers. The moment she gets ejected she comes back knowing she would die. She also painted alicia in the worst possible way, still burnt, still scarred by the trauma of losing verso, while everyone else either stays the same or is even more intimidating

This game somehow managed to rip off FFX and Lies of P.

>>717910184
Painters get the oven. As you see they're quite crazy.

>>717910081
Yes, he is. I'm sorry you missed the point of his entire character.

>>717910461
>painted verso=pinocchio
>real verso=Carlos
>Maelle=Projected Sophia
>Alicia=Real Sophia
>Renoir=Gepetto
literally the same story with paintings instead of puppets

>>717910314
It's been months. Both Aline and Alicia are terrible. Move on. Clea's the only woman in the family functional and smart enough not to get involved in their petty painting squabbles.

>>717911495

Clea is the best character in the entire game

>>717911495
>Clea's the only woman in the family functional and smart enough not to get involved in their petty painting squabbles.
>the girl who goes on a murderous spree to avenge her brother is the only sane woman in the family

poor Renoir.

>>717909508 (OP)
Painted Renoir did literally nothing wrong and was right about everything.

>>717911947
He killed Gustave

>>717912024
>killed and ugly guy with a unibrow
Good.

>>717912024

That was a mercy

>>717911737
>goes on a murderous spree
?

Can someone explain the "he can only kill people in a certain age range" nonsense. How exactly was The Paintress able to specifically safe people younger than X years old? All the people are literally just paintings in the first place, how are some easier to save than others?

It makes no sense.

He's not. The entire of the theme of the game is how grief twists your perception of reality. Renoir is the most human (no pun intended) being in the Canvas. He recognizes the humanity and goodness of the Expeditioners, but can't stand to see his family consumed by a fantasy when the real world still exists. He's clearly meant to be a philosopher type character who is always weighing the moral dillemma of actions he takes because he knows how they will affect others."

I can't remember the philosophical problem, but there's one that is basically a 1:1 of how Expedition 33 plays out. Is it right that a single person suffer so that others can leave in blissful ignorance? Or should the reality of suffering be made apparent so no one person has to carry it all? Renoir and Verso are the parallells of solitary suffering, while Aline and Maelle/Alicia are those of blisful ignorance.

>>717912326

Did you not play the game or are you just slow?This was explained pretty clearly.

you need a maximum IQ of 90 to follow the story of this game

>>717912383
Feel free to explain it again. Because whatever explanation they gave in the game wasn't good.

>>717910081
Only a tranny would think this

>>717912487

Don't blame the game for you not understanding something simple. This is on you bud.

>>717912487
there is no explanation. writers didn't think it through. it's just a painted world lol magic and stuff

>>717909508 (OP)
Because the writer wanted it so.
>LOL HE DID NOTHING WRONG
Yes, he did. That's why he's the villain. No need to be a redditor nitpicker, who got offended by the message of the writer. It's fucking fiction. He is the villain because the writer made him a villain, because he's a fictional character.

>>717912326
Aline knew it would be inevitable that either she would die or Renoir would overpower her, and either way Renoir would gommage the canvas. So she intentionally chose to save the younger people hoping they would live their short lives to the fullest, something she never got to do with Verso.

>>717912579
Sounds like you don't get it either and just want to troll.

>>717912579
>still can't explain it
>is some kind of retard who can't even format posts correctly and uses redundant white space
Sub double digit IQ.

nothing worse than a my mom said I'm special, I understood the retarded plot fag

>>717909508 (OP)
Because Renoir is sentimental, egositic and stuck in his ways like a machild.
Aline is a disfunctional mother who's wasting the rest of her life.

Both abandoned their duties as parents to their children and it's pathetic of Renoir and Aline that Clea had to step in and do their job, while also raising Maelle by showing her that she should indulge in moderation. The parents are extremes and in failing to do their duty they have also failed Maelle, who then feels forced to reject them.

why did they call him the white haired man? his hair isnt even white

>>717910184
>kill someone?
>implying Verso didn't fake his death

>uppity Maelletard
I shan't

>>717912664
Yes, that much was explained directly in the series. But that doesn't explain how or why she was able to do it.
Why couldn't Renoir just kill whoever he wanted anyway? There's nothing specifically different about "young" and "old" people in this setting. They are all just paintings.

>>717910461
Also Spiderman and Dr. Dre.

>>717912670
>>717912671

>Not understanding the basic story and then calling somebody else sub double digit IQ

Can't make this shit up.

Aline weakened by Renoir and Clea. She can only save younger creations as the chroma is stronger. Renoir then erases the older chroma aka creations.

This is all explained in the game very clearly. Next time actually pay attention.

Painted people in the canvas have independent thoughts, moral agency, and capacity for suffering therefore they are real people. The facts that Verso created them and that they don't exist on the same plane as the Dessendre family are irrelevant. Destroying the canvas and killing them is wrong.

>>717912487
>>717912326
You are retarded.

>>717909508 (OP)
It's complicated.

He's not a total villain, nor was he a good guy entirely.

>>717912874
Renoir didn't care and was just trying to gommage everything. Aline wasn't weak enough yet that he could just do that, so she was able to protect what she chose.

>>717912519
>>717911208
The Verso in the game isn't even the real Verso, you cucks. It's just a version painted by Aline and this loser is so pathetic that he's whimpering selfishly to be killed, because somehow that's only possible with total genocide for him. The real Verso would've been a stoic man preserving the world and shouldering it for everyone, not this pathetic excuse of an incel.

>>717909815
Wrong answer.

>>717912905
>The facts that Verso created

>>717912905
Verso didn't create them, he just created the little goofballs, but you're right that it is morally retarded for people to feel pity for the fake Verso, yet they would dismiss everyone else as non real

>>717913064
Yes

>>717909508 (OP)
He was too unwilling to compromise, only thinking about what he himself sees as right with 0 consideration for anybody else.
Just look at his extremely retarded plan. He thought "yeah, I just spend 100 years strangling my wives beloved pets and then surely she will come to her senses and not murder suicide me the moment I kick her out of the painting".
That's deranged. He was lucky that Alicia went into the painting to mix things up.

>>717912896
>>717912956
Aw, the retard is getting mad and samefagging.

>She can only save younger creations as the chroma is stronger.
This was never stated anywhere in the story. You just made that up.

>>717913216

Okay I am done with you.

You are factually incorrect.

so much reddit spacing in this thread. can't all be the same guy right?

>>717913138
If Alicia actually cared about the painted people then you'd have a point, but she only wants to be surrounded by puppets dancing for her amusement. She had the ability to simply give Verso his wish while leaving the rest of the canvas intact. Her inability to do that is precisely why Renoir realized she was just as gone as Aline, and that gommaging the entire canvas was the only solution.

>>717913138
Lumiere existed prior to the Fracture

>>717912905
People who disagree with this think parents have a right to kill their children.

What weapons we getting? The pistol and SMG?

>>717912357
You are probably thinking of The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas, a Le Guin short story?
We discussed this problem during lecture in a Moral Philosophy class in college, but I don't think most people are reading Rawls or Nozick unless they also took classes like that. Le Guin's short story is the best illustration of the core concept anyway.
Glad you made this post anon, I didn't draw the connection between Expedition 33 and the Omelas problem until now. Even if it's a pretty simple story it is nice to keep picking up on new nuances for it. Nice to see decent depth in writing for a game without it devolving into a full on movie game.

>>717913292
Why can't you space posts normally?
Why can't you stop lying to try and look smart?

>>717909508 (OP)
Painted Renoir is a villain. Real Renoir is the hero.

>>717913417
Why do you think this is relevant?

Why doesn't Alicia care about Noco in Verso's ending?
Why doesn't she care about Emma in her ending?

>>717913010
Renoir's impression of Verso is that he's a lying liar who does nothing but lie lol

>>717913138
The problem your argument has is that everyone else is already dead at the end. Verso is literally the last true, living Lumierian. Sciel and Lune are just copies of the originals who were already killed. Whatever agency the previous inhabitants had doesn't matter, because they are all dead. What Alicia resurrects is a parody of the originals, to fulfill her narcissistic fantasies. You are trying to create a moral dilemma of, "What about all these other people who will also die?!" when they are already dead and gone, so there is no moral dilemma. The only things arguably still alive are the creations of Verso, who are fine with whatever Verso would have wanted.

>>717914097
>What Alicia resurrects is a parody of the originals
They weren't real in the first place.
They were just a mass "chroma". And she just put that chroma back to how it was before her dad broke it. I fail to see how it's any different.
They went from being a painting, to being a painting again.

>>717913216
based retard shitposter who makes the world a worse place with every post he makes

>>717914097
It doesn't matter if they're copies or the original and it doesn't matter why Alicia created them. The instant they're created, they have agency independent of her. They have experiences, make memories, and decide. If she copied them a thousand times, all of those copies would be people too.

>>717909508 (OP)
>real Renoir was literally cucked by this

>>717914097
Except they have knowledge Alicia doesn't have. So either she got real lucky or their chroma carries their memories, knowledge, feelings. Akin to a soul. They were resurrected, not cloned.

>>717914594
Then why can't Alicia respect that in her own ending?

Big Pierre cock

>>717912326
Renoir is erasing everything in the canvas, the paintress redirects his attack on the oldest citizens of lumiere

>>717914594
>agency independent of her
Except for the part where she forces a reluctant Verso to play the piano.

>>717914982
>>717914870
Because she's mad with guilt and can't abide anything but the perfect life she's imagined for herself to escape it. That's wrong too, but it doesn't make Renoir right to destroy the canvas.

>Alicia directly causes the death of her brother and the destruction of her family.
Woman moment.
>Aline further exacerbates the problem.
Woman moment.

>>717909508 (OP)
the only "correct people" in this game are verso's soul & lumierans. everybody else is a selfish sack of shit that either wants to exploit or destroy them.
both endings suck balls, it needs a 3rd true ending where not everything is a bleak tragedy.

>>717915342
E33 is one of the few videogames that understands women.

>>717915385
Golden Ending in the GOTY edition trust the plan.

>>717915463
Nah the game leans into the forced emotion realm, similar to Ori for example, a balanced ending can't happen.

>>717915665
I know sadly :(

>>717915418
And beta men like Renoir and Verso. Renoir is a bad father and leader so the women in the family disobey him, he also had to be saved by his wife for lacking control. Verso is a mopey lying manipulator, might as well be a woman.

>>717914982
headcanon

>>717915937
>Renoir can't get women to do what he wants
>beta
>Verso gets women to do what he wants
>beta
Guess you just can't win

>>717912024
Yes, but it was Verso's fault really.

>>717913762
They're two sides of the same coin
Paint renoir doesn't want his family to die as much as Real Renoir doesn't want his family to wither in the canvas

>>717916469
But actually it was Gustave's fault.

>>717913010
>The real Verso would've been a stoic man preserving the world and shouldering it for everyone, not this pathetic excuse of an incel.
the boy who is a fragment of real verso's soul wanted to stop painting when painted verso asked him if he wanted to stop

>>717912760
Maelle go the bathroom NOW! you are SHITTING yourself

>>717915224
Renoir tried just hiding the painting at first when Aline became obsessed with but she was still able to find it. Can't blame Renoir for resorting to destroying the painting when Aline was basically killing herself spending so much time in the painting.

>>717917172
I don't blame him for prioritizing the life of his wife over the lives of random innocents. I'd do the same. Still doesn't make it right, nor does rationalizing those innocents as not actually being alive to justify it. It's starting to sound to me like Painting is a terrible thing that no one should ever do.

>>717917012
because of the nevrons and all the death caused by his selfish family

>>717917689
Is he even aware of those things? Seemed to me like he was just tired.

>>717917552
>Still doesn't make it right, nor does rationalizing those innocents as not actually being alive to justify it.
Renoir doesn't do that though. He evebln apologizes to the party when he's freed for dragging them into his family drama. Doesn't stop him from trying to destroy the painting though but it's not like he dismissed the painted people as not actually being alive.

>>717917801
did you talk to the other soul fragments all over the canvas? of course hes aware, confused, and hurt by it

>>717916432
Both are true. Renoir is a bad father and head of the home. Verso offers the party hope but lies and manipulates them throughout.

>>717912905
>and that they don't exist on the same plane as the Dessendre family are irrelevant.
That is relevant. The painters are higher beings worth more moral consideration, just as humans are worth more moral consideration than other animals.

>>717918340
The only thing that makes humans worth more moral consideration than other animals is the depth of their capacity for suffering. There's no reason to believe painted individuals experience inherently less suffering than Painters. Painters are playing God. They create lives every bit as profound as their own all just to play with like toys for their amusement.

>>717911495
Clea is unnecessarily bitchy. Youd think an adult woman wouldn't take her frustrations on a 16 year old if her mental was strong.

>>717913614
I would NEVER walk away from an omelette

>>717909508 (OP)
He's not? Maelle is the bad guy, through and through.

Because the dumbfuck doesn’t know how to talk to his wife or daughter, so he decides to destroy his dead son’s VRchat and kill the sentient chatbots inside. Dumbass conflict, and the game having a choice of ending is so out of place

>>717910461
And all those games ripped off books from The Bible

>>717917552
>Painting is a terrible thing that no one should ever do.
Maybe it's the writers stance too, could be the reason why they're in conflict with painters.

Painted people are not real.

>>717914226
That says nothing about "chroma is weaker in older creations".

>>717914571
Why do mentally ill retards like you samefag so much?

>>717922942
The painters aren't real people either

>>717909508 (OP)
He rejects women's infantile, reckless behaviour.

>>717909508 (OP)
He isn't.

>>717909508 (OP)
Painted Renoir's basically a bodyguard Aline made to protect her, and ultimately a bit player all things considered.
Real Renoir isn't a villain and entirely justified in what he's doing.

Painted wasn't the villain, he was fucking stupid though, why didn't he just tell the Lumierians the truth about the Gommage

Verso literally shows no character development nor growth.

>>717926293
Verso can't grow, he's dead

>>717909508 (OP)
Anyone else feel this game and all the character designs feel pretentious as fuck?

>>717914226
Why are you posting something that fucked your own argument over?
Aline's chroma reduces every year because Clea's Nevrons trap the expeditioners' chroma inside the stone corpses instead of dispersing them back into the atmosphere to be re-absorbed by Aline. So Aline has to reduce the number of people she can save every year, and she calculated that the old ones will die soon anyway, so she stop saving the oldest ones year by year.

>>717912781
Death of the author. Moreso, it's fucking idiotic to not to apply it to this games specifically: game where authors' (those who paint) intentions are put under scrutiny. Appealing to authorial authority for this game is just.. you understood the game wrong way.

Sequel when?
I want to see the Strongest Painter invade France

>The painters' power can obviously influence reality of the real world
>Floating paintings and shit
>Alicia commented that skilled painters like Renior can 'paint over' the fire damage in the mansion
>Their daughter is still a one-eyed bacon

>>717926606
Have you played it?

>>717909605
Nahh yehh whudda hehh

>>717927229
>Strongest painter
>can only paint buildings and inanimate objects

>>717927392
>>Alicia commented that skilled painters like Renior can 'paint over' the fire damage in the mansion
Not at all what happens. She says Clea can repaint the walls but that's only in a very conventional sense. There are still construction platforms, they are rebuilding the place in a very mundane manner

Reminder that Verso did nothing wrong.

>>717926986
Doesn’t this technically mean that if there were no expeditions, there’d be no Gommage?

>>717927508
Who do you think painted the mimes?

>>717928260
I think I read somewhere that no one painted them. They’re just unexplained anomalies that appeared in the canvas for unknown reasons.

>>717928260
>>717928483
Aline.
Mimes can't speak, it's a mockery of Alicia

source: Me

What's the point of these threads if all you get is
>X is the bad guy
>Nuh-uh
Repeated ad infinitum and nobody ever wants to understand the other party's point of view? Is this supposed to be fun or something? Arguing the same way, every thread, in a circle?

>>717928641
But Painted Alicia already exists as a mockery of Alicia.

Aline was kind of a bitch for holding that much against her daughter.

>>717928741
It's fun to hear someone else's view, even if you are not convinced to change your own

>>717928741
Renoir was right
Edelgard was right
Maruki was right
Ardyn's anger is justified
Malos was right
Dutch Van was right
Dagoth Ur was right

>>717928865
>Aline was kind of a bitch for holding that much against her daughter.
and people would want me to think that Alicia would have a great life outside the painting with a bitch like that as her mom.

>>717929136
It's okay you beat the shit out of her and force her to destroy the last remnant of her son against her will.
It's obviously going to make her nicer and more stable, as we all know that is how getting over grief works.

>>717929312
or how you force Alicia out of the painting and on that shitshow of an house she's in. now THAT's an healthy enviroment.