Thread 718057914

whats the difference between a roguelite and roguelike?

>>718057914 (OP)
It doesn't matter because nothing a genreboxer thinks ever matters.

>>718057914 (OP)
>Roguelike
A game like Rogue. Turn-based, grid-based RPG with permadeath.
>Roguelite
A game of literally any genre, that offers semi-random power-ups over the course of a single "run", no truly permanent death, and meta progression between "runs".

whats the difference between /v/ and /a/?

>>718057914 (OP)
theyre the same thing but you use roguelite when you don't want to piss off the roguelike autists

>>718058060
A game of literally any genre, that offers semi-random power-ups over the course of a single "run", no truly permanent death, and meta progression between "runs".
What's it called when it has all this but no metaprogression

>>718058079
/a/ - anime girls
/v/ - mentally ill dudes thinking they're anime girls

one is more like rogue

I don't care what it is and you are gay if you do.

There are two types of roguelikes. Type 1: old boomer ascii shit. Type 2: everything else

>>718057914 (OP)
Lites have meta progression, while in likes the only progression between runs is your knowledge.

>>718057914 (OP)
A roguelite has metaprogression. A roguelike does not.

>>718058125
/a/ is also garbage.

>>718057914 (OP)
roguelikes are games like rogue
roguelites are everything else

>>718058376
Metaprogression is not actually a necessary condition of a roguelite.
It's just that most of them do it, because, well, it generally makes up for a better game.

Roguelike is a very strict category, consisting of a bunch of necessary conditions. It HAS to be turnbased, it HAS to be purely procgen, it HAS to be top-down, it HAS to be an RPG, it HAS to have permadeath.

But roguelike is a very vague and broad category, with only two necessary conditions (it HAS to have permadeath and it has to be strongly proc-gen). All the other criteria for rogue-like are conventional but not mandatory. Meta-progression, RPG elements etc... are typically part of rogue-lites, but not mandatory.

>>718058784
>it HAS to have permadeath
Nope.

>>718058923
>>718058923
Both roguelike and roguelite are defined by their use of permadeath. Together with use of procedural generation, it's the only necessary condition they share.
Existence of metaprogression isn't exclusive with permadeath, by the way. Permadeath means that you can't retrieve CURRENT run after dying. It does not mean that all progression systems are reset.

>>718059169
Permadeath isn't requiremed for a game to be considered a roguelike.

>>718059249
>Permadeath isn't requiremed for a game to be considered a roguelike.
Are you just a 5 years old saying the opposite of what the other said to stretch the conversation out just a little longer?

>>718059383
I'm stating the fact that permadeath isn't required for a game to be considered a roguelike. See: tome4, elin, elona, coq, mystery dungeon.

>>718057914 (OP)
There's no difference. Nobody cares about Roguelikes so they are irrelevant as a distinguished term. Everyone refers to the generalized meaning of games made up of individual runs, where losing runs is part of the progression.

>>718057914 (OP)
Dark souls has NG+ and information based powerups therefore it is a roguelike.

>>718058060
A roguelite doesn't need to have meta progression and can have true permadeath. It just has to stray from being a roguelike.

>>718059625
>doesn't need to have
If you remove genre-defining features, it stops being a -like or -lite, and just becomes a game from some random genre.

Marvel vs Capcom 2 has Rogue and I like her, so it's a roguelike.

>>718057914 (OP)
Once upon time, there was a game called "Rogue". A Roguelike is a game exactly like Rogue, where Roguelite only has a few mechanics that resemble Rogue.

>>718059680
>If you remove genre-defining features
Yeah. Like being a grid-based, turnbased with simulturn, RPG. With randomized worlds that reset upon death or victory.
Those are all things that are infinitely more important than "permadeath".

>>718057914 (OP)
>roguelite: you get better on each "run", no abusing quickloads, when you die it's over.
example: Sonic 1/2.
>roguelike: a game that takes after rogue. Tile-based or ascii, turn-based, resources, dungeons.
examples: dq, FFI-V, pokemon green.

>>718057914 (OP)
Left: Roguelike.
Right: Roguelite
Your simian brain should have evolved enough pattern recognition to figure it out just from this.

>>718059383
Aren't the mystery dungeons considered to be just dungeon crawlers?

>>718061410
Oops, meant for >>718059443

>>718057914 (OP)
>>718058079
What's the difference between playing a game where you take the role of the MC and RPG?

>>718061410
>considered
By whom? Retards who think permadeath is a necessary component of a roguelike? Maybe, I wouldn't know.

>>718057914 (OP)
>Rogue
Top down, turn based,grid based, one life dungeon crawler with randomly generates dungeons.
>Rogue Clone
The same thing but it's not rogue.
>Roguelike
Same general idea of one life and random levels but the format can change. Doesn't have to be turn based, top down, grid based, etc.
>Roguelite
The same thing as roguelike but with progression that carries on after death instead of a full reset.

>>718061410
define dungeon crawler

>>718057914 (OP)
A Roguelike is a procedurally-generated RPG dungeon crawler with permadeath based around seeing how low into the dungeon you can go.

A Roguelite is just a game which uses RNG and procedural generation to design its levels instead of a developer.

A Roguelike uses procedural map generation to maintain a degree of uncertainty and the unknown in the game.

A Roguelite uses proceedural generation to create infinite slop.

>>718057914 (OP)
The difference between a roguelike and roguelite is like the difference between an RPG and a game with RPG elements. It's a hybrid genre that requires a certain number of mechanics borrowed from Rogue.

>>718057914 (OP)
Roguelikes are shit.
Roguelites are shit.
Therefore, yes, I would say that there is no difference between the two.

>>718057914 (OP)
>File Deleted
what was it?

>>718061972
>one life
>>718062029
>with permadeath

>>718061698
>muh appeal to authority

>>718062029
> Roguelike is...
> Seeing how low.
Wrong, it was usually a quest based dungeon crawl with procedural generation aimed to simulate D&D gameplay. You should stop talking about shit you don't know anything about.
Roguelike has to have the following:
> Level progression either class or skill based.
> Currency mechanics.
> Weight/Hunger mechanics.
> Turn based movement (I go, you go.)
> Permanent Death.
Also Roguelite:
> Death but awards at the end for upgrades.
> Usually action based.
> RNG is used for maps, loot and monsters.
> They usually remove hunger from their gameplay.
If your game has post-death progression other than unlocking classes or other play options directly at character generation well you have a Roguelite.

>>718062314
You saying that roguelikes need permadeath to be considered one is as "appeal to authority" as it gets. It's a misconception born from the asinine definition (that isn't even a definition but a fucking spectrum lmao) made during the low-functioning autist gathering known as berlin interpretation, parroted ad nauseam.
I've given several examples of games that cannot be called anything other than roguelike that have game modes that don't end your game when you die.

>>718061039
>Mystery Dungeon
Not a Roguelike.
>One Step Heroics
Can be played as a Roguelike but has metaprogression and the ability to save.

>>718062231
Generic anime girl looking confused

>>718062583
Metaprogression and ability to save.
> Roguelite.
That's literally it and you are right about the Mystery Dungeon its just a dungeon crawler without any Roguelike elements.

>>718062521
The Berlin interpretation substantiates their position that permadeath is required by pointing to a wide range of games that followed Rogue or were modified versions of it that considered it a core feature. That's not an appeal to authority, that's an argument. An appeal to authority is when you point to a Wikipedia page and say "see, it says it's a Roguelike" without further elaboration.

>>718062583
>Not a Roguelike.
What is it then?
>has metaprogression and the ability to save
So?
ToME4 also has metaprogression and difficulties that give your character more than 1 life so you can continue after dying. Does the game magically change its genre when you select a different option in the menu?

>>718062694
>What is it then?
It's a dungeon crawler.
>Does the game magically change its genre when you select a different option in the menu?
Yeah, actually. DCSS has Wizard mode but you wouldn't see anybody saying that's the same game.

>>718062583
>Can be played as a Roguelike
Then it's a roguelike.
Counter Strike doesn't stop being a First Person Shooter if you only play with the knife. Genres don't change based on trivial elements that can be optional or not, it should be the core/foundation that dictates it

>>718062769
What's a dungeon crawler?
>Yeah, actually. DCSS has Wizard mode but you wouldn't see anybody saying that's the same game.
You're an actual fucking retard, holy shit.

>>718062803
People use genres to describe things. When you remove features that are the reason people are describing the thing that way, a different description can be necessary.

>>718062673
Berlin interpretation is a fucking joke because it tried to define a fucking videogame GENRE as a SPECTRUM.

Riddle me this, you pedantic, brainless shitstain.
A game has two modes: "you die - you start over" and "you die - you start from an arbitrary save point". You begin a new game thinking you're playing the former difficulty, but you've actually accidentally, WITHOUT NOTICING, flipped the selection to the latter. How does the game change? I'll answer how: it doesn't.
How the fuck do you make a "core" feature something that you literally can go hours and hours before noticing?

>>718062839
>People use genres to describe things
Exactly. That's why something as insignificant as permadeath doesn't matter in the slightest.

>>718062769
>Yeah, actually. DCSS has Wizard mode but you wouldn't see anybody saying that's the same game.

>>718062986
Just because you're good enough at the game that you're consistent now doesn't mean the permadeath isn't relevant and its inclusion shaped your strategies. A better example would be if you took someone that never played a game with permadeath and had them play a game with permadeath, you'd see they would be eating shit all the time, though a player used to permadeath can consistently get through, demonstrating there is a noticeable difference.

>>718063095
You think if you speak in pretentious pseud babble that'll make me not notice the fact that you completely ignored everything I said.
Go fuck youself, you have no argument.

>>718063180
I spoke clearly and simply, it's not my problem you can't understand that.

>>718063203
I understood that you couldn't engage with what I said because your non-argument got BTFO by simple logic, but your ego doesn't allow you to drop the matter so you continue with a retarded irrelevant "example" that's nothing to do with my point whatsoever. Brainless shitstain.

>>718063295
You said permadeath doesn't matter. I brought up an example that shows it does. This made you upset so you started shit-flinging.

>>718063330
A game has two modes: "you die - you start over" and "you die - you start from an arbitrary save point". You begin a new game thinking you're playing the former difficulty, but you've actually accidentally, WITHOUT NOTICING, flipped the selection to the latter. How does the game change? I'll answer how: it doesn't.
How the fuck do you make a "core" feature something that you literally can go hours and hours before noticing?

Argue this. You cannot.

>>718063343
>>718063095

>>718063367
You're a sub-80 IQ retarded gorilla nigger.
Your "example" has fuck all to do with my point, because it entails the player knowing whether they're playing with permadeath on or not. I've literally capitalized "WITHOUT NOTICING" for your retarded ass, but I guess that didn't help much, huh? Fuck me are you dense.

>>718063539
It doesn't matter because they're playing like permadeath is on anyway. Your inability to understand or engage with hypotheticals makes it hard for me to care what you think is dense.

>>718063614
>It doesn't matter because they're playing like permadeath is on anyway
Yes, genius, exactly. They play as if it's on, but it's off. Does the gameplay magically change because of that? No, it's still fucking simulturn-based, grid map and procgen.
>Your inability to understand or engage with hypotheticals
The fucking irony.

>>718063704
>Does the gameplay magically change because of that?
Of course it does. Can you use the same strategies in a game with permadeath and a game without it?

>>718063741
Permadeath in ANY genre will make you use safer strategies, retard. How the fuck is that exclusive to roguelike?
The point is that it's so insignificant that its addition or removal doesn't change the genre.
You can at a glance see 1st person shooter and call it so, same with a 3rd person shooter or an RTS. You then try looking at pic related and following your retarded nigger logic it's... what? "Uhhhhhhh.... Ummmmmm....... well if it has permadeath it's le roguelike and if it doesn't..... ummmmm....... well idk I guess I'll go ask the author of this screenshot and then decide..."

>>718057914 (OP)
A roguelike is a clone of Rogue. It takes heavily after Rogue in gameplay and appearance.
A roguelite is a game that takes mechanics from roguelikes, but is not a clone of Rogue. The gameplay and appearance are nothing like Rogue.
Pic related, it's Rogue.

>>718061039
One Way Heroics is a roguelite, not a roguelike.

>>718064156
>simultaneous turn-based gameplay
>procedurally generated grid map
It's a roguelike.

>>718064036
Nethack thoughbeit was a clone of the rogue engine for sure. You are just throwing semantics and tantrums to try and make a point stand rather than accept a loss. Every single roguelike was a top-down dungeon crawler with a quest to recover some sort of loot from the bottom and ascend back up.

>>718064021
You can try to weasel your way out of this as much as you like, but you admit that permadeath does change the gameplay. Rogue sure thought so, as did many of its predecessors. If you want the game to be like Rogue, and it doesn't have permadeath, it's not very much like Rogue. Rogue's not the first ASCII game on a grid where you're delving into a dungeon. Why appeal to Roguelikes when you have an older history than that?

>>718064238
>You can try to weasel your way out of this as much as you like
That's what you've been doing all this time lmfao, my point hasn't changed since the start of this inane argument. Maybe go read what a genre is, and try to understand why making its "core" feature something you can't notice is dumb.
I'm done wasting time arguing with a retard.

>>718062986
I was going to try to argue against you but I realized you're right. Permadeath is a difficulty option because things that happens after the round doesn't actually after the round. You can't use that type of argument with other genres because the core features of RPGs or platformers can't be ignored

>>718064464
Neither has mine. Your point is that permadeath isn't a core feature and mine is. You can't even understand the other side of an argument.

>>718064464
> You can't notice something its duuummbb..
> Genre is like about graaaaphiiics maaaan. *snorts a line of coke.*
> Yeah like, if you can't see what it is, you can't call it a GENRE.
lmao.

>>718064548
>another retard ventures into the fray
Here's what makes a roguelike:
- simulturn-based gameplay
- grid/tile map
- heavy use of procgen
- rpg mechanics such as levels, equippable/useable items, etc
You could even arguably cut away the last point, but I've just never seen a roguelike without those elements.
It's the only reply you're getting from me, I'm already burnt out on facing unceasing retardation for today.

It's always babies that play games with permadeath without it or people that only play games without permadeath that want the important feature of permadeath in Roguelikes to be removed. Helps their egos.

>>718064901
Reading comprehension of a toddler.

>>718064720
> Noo its not about the permadeath. IT WAS NEVER ABOUT PERMADEATH.
lol. Keep coping bitch and get the fuck out.

>>718064937
That's not something you're supposed to admit online, but I'm generous so I'll help you anyway. I'm making fun of you.

>>718058784
>It HAS to be turnbased
it has to be simultaneous tb
>it HAS to be purely procgen
>purely
nope. ADOM overmap + settlements are static, TOME overmap + settlements are static, COQ overmap is static, elona and elin overmap + settlements are static, sil-q settlements are static
>it HAS to be top-down
ok
>it HAS to be an RPG
ok
>it HAS to have permadeath
no it doesn't. elona and elin don't have permadeath by default and there's no genre to describe them better than roguelike

>>718062583
>DCSS has Wizard mode but you wouldn't see anybody saying that's the same game.
gotta be the stupidest shit I read all day

>>718064901
i ascended nethack a few dozen times and i'm of the opinion that baking permadeath into the genre definition is wrong and stupid. it's a difficulty option, the _underlying_ gameplay doesn't change a bit. you can add permadeath to an fps and you'll still be shooting things from first person, you'll just be more careful. same logic applies to roguelike. idk why it's so hard for you to grasp