Thread 718157559

What is so hard about making a platformer with ball physics. Why does modern Sonic forgo the rolling

>>718157559 (OP)
Level design suffers from it.

>>718157559 (OP)
Can't they just abandon sonic as a shitty concept and make something new that isn't doomed to be shit forever? Why can't things just die?

this gif whelmed me for 3 seconds now extend that to 20 hours and I'll buy your product

>>718157697
Because anything with Sonic sells to the autists who cant let go. For example, you'd expect a spin-off game catering to already dwindling fangroup like Sonic Racing to flop (mario kart clone but somehow even more bland with no real differences except sonic skins), but it sold 3x more than Total War Warhammer. And TW:WH was THE new game for an entire genre (strategy games), not just a quick spin-off game catering to small niche (arcade racer genre enjoyers who are such Sonic autists they put Sonic being in game above game quality)

>>718157559 (OP)
Too complicated for journos and casuals, just give em a go fast button.

>>718157697
It's a great concept, but nobody does rolly physics. Idk why. I can chalk it up to Sega being lazy, but even like 90% of fangames and clones just do boost shit mach-speed running garbage. It's like they missed the point of classic Sonic.

It's sad that I have to play Marble Blast to get even a taste of what 3D Sonic could be like. However Marble Blast lacks character and being a ball ALL the time isn't so great. Changing direction is slow, going uphill sucks, jumping is weak, and you always bounce when landing which can fuck you up a lot. That's why switching between two modes can be great.

>"this aimless open garbage would totally work as a full game and not a shitty 2 minute tech demo guys!"
>game's development never continues
>look at what was worked on for the second level
>it's a straight line
lmao never trust twitter trannies when they tell you that sonic fangames are good and "totally owning sega, guys!"

>>718158320
The Sonic fangame scene is full of style over substance zoomers. They're more obsessed with the idea of making Sonic look cool while living out headcanon's rather than making the gameplay of Sonic good.

>>718158884
trvthnvke

>>718158884
black pill: and?
Sonic is cool, but sonic gameplay is ass and there is nothing you can do about it without turning into a racing game. You simply can't make a platformer based on speed.

>>718159110
Why even make a fangame then if you're not in it for gameplay? Just make a fucking animation.

>>718159618
the fun is playing something that is cool

>>718158562
It does suck that the dev ended up being a lazy narcissist.

That still doesn't change the fact that I liked Utopia. I've enjoyed a good 30 minutes of dicking around. Nothing wrong with that. I think adding missions could easily improve the replayability of a single stage. Stuff like time-trials or collect 100 rings quickly. Also nothing wrong with a more linear difficult level. If they don't want it to be just a straight line, they should opt to make it more "vertically" challenging.

Idk if the intent here was to be "open-world". I mean you still go from A to B, you just have a much, much wider pathway. It isn't the same as Frontiers. Just because the stage is big doesn't mean it's open-world.

>>718159783
>The gameplay is bad but it's good actually if you make it fun

Might want to rethink what you think a blackpill is.

>>718160273
>Might want to rethink what you think a blackpill is.
and that is why you are not ready for it

>>718157559 (OP)
Ball physics suck ass in 3D. Sonic only works in 2D.
The ideal Sonic gameplay would either be something like Haste, or parkour-based like Mirror's Edge, but in neither case does Sonic being a hedgehog make sense so those concepts are better off for different and better games than Sonic.

>>718157559 (OP)
>What is so hard about making a platformer with ball physics. Why does modern Sonic forgo the rolling
Sega has incompetent developers. You’re talking about Lizuka, for example, who went on record saying when playing Mario 64 he was lost and didn’t know where to go. And that the mechanics of the old sonic games were too complicated. This is a skill issue. Add in Sammy’s tendency to save the most money possible and you have a shitty series

>>718157697
>Can't they just abandon sonic as a shitty concept and make something new that isn't doomed to be shit forever? Why can't things just die?
Sonic made 900 million dollars in merchandise revenue according to their financial reports.

>>718159976
>It does suck that the dev ended up being a lazy narcissist.
the problem is always the same with these fangames
it's easy to make any style of gameplay seem fun for 10 minutes on a playground level
that doesn't tell you whether that gameplay is strong enough to carry a whole game, which is the actual difficult part

>>718158884
unfortunately yeah

>>718158562
It’s always the same cycle. Twitter hypes up some Unity sandbox that looks shiny and calls it “the next step in Sonic,” everyone claps, and then it dies in pre-alpha because the devs can’t design a fun stage that’s more than a glorified skatepark. Half these fangames are just Sonic Teardown but with slopes. If you can’t build interesting level progression beyond A-to-B with ramps, then congratulations, you’ve made a tech demo, not a game.

>>718157697
They often do just die. Sonic has been shit for huge stretches, but ShadowXGenerations is pretty good, so now isn’t the time to kill it.

>>718158884
Isn't style over substance the entire premise of Sonic? If you want substance play Mario.

>>718159110
>You simply can't make a platformer based on spee-
MAMA MIA

>>718158320
I'm looking forward to Isopod Game. You play as pillbug able to move around normally or roll into a ball. Its not quite as speed-oriented as sanic, but it still fits your criteria pretty well. Search it on Steam if you're interested

>>718161617
>a fun stage that’s more than a glorified skatepark
But I like skateparks. What more do you want?

>>718157690
This is complete and total bullshit. They can build a game designed with it in mind. How come nobody says this about open world game such as the Asscreed games? I think a Sonic game like in the gif OP posted absolutely can work. They just have no desire to make such a game because they are hacks and they just want to keep milking the IP with shit games.

>>718162552
You got your answer up here >>718160782

>>718159110
On picrelated, he JUST met up with the guy and reconciled with him for stealing Snake.

The best Sonic game (by a milestone) already perfected the 3D formula.

>>718161842
>become invinicible the second you start going fast
>character automatically follows most surfaces, even going up walls, reacting to danger is optional
>people keep accidentally running into harm? no problem, we'll make it so you can't ever die
sound like a lot of compromises had to be made, can hardly be called a platformer when your character runs up walls, flies, and there's no punishment for falling off, like the man said, it's more of a racing game considering people only care about rankings and time because there's no challenge in simply finishing a level

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3BlXt7Isy4

Sonic Team nailed it the first time and perfected it, and then decided not to use it.

I think the average Sonic fan wants Sonic Dream Team, but on console.

You may enjoy games such as Super Monkey Ball and Crumble

>>718163053
Terrible slippery physics and broken air acceleration and no real slopes only handicap ramps and shitty billboard graphic cutouts and tunnel levels

>you can fix it yourself!
You can say that about any game then.

>>718157559 (OP)
sonic was always about spectacle more than anything else. the 2D games played like a rube goldberg machine, and the 3D games are just trying to get you to go
>WHOA
with as little input on your part as possible and therein lies the problem. I still think sonic gt is the closest thing to a "pure 3D sonic" experience anyone could get and it's not even a full game.

>>718163252
you betafags just want to press B at the nearest angled surface and fly into the stratosphere to skip half the level, that's your definition of fun

>>718163516
Skill issue

>>718163793
Skin tissue

>>718163072
>can hardly be called a platformer when your character runs up walls, flies, and there's no punishment for falling off

>>718162552
At that speed you'd have to make retardedly huge levels. Why not use classic sonic's physics?

>>718163713
>have spin dash
>use it
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THATS NOT HOW YOU PLAY LE HECKIN SAWNIC

>>718163578
They just didn't evolve Sonic properly is the problem. I don't know why they felt they had to stick to the ring collecting concept either. Mario with SM64 changed in that grabbing coins now heals Mario and he also had a health bar. But for some reason Sonic had to have his health system function identically to the 2D games all this time. You aren't entirely wrong about spectacle though but this could have worked had they embraced that aspect earlier. Sonic doing cool tricks and running through an obstacle course like he's an Xtreme athlete would have been a fine way to go back during the Dreamcast days. Instead they gave us a mish mash of ideas and concepts and not nearly enough Sonic.

>>718163924
a bit disingenuous innit?
mario can only """fly""" with a powerup, tottino can go full vertical any time by running for two seconds then pressing up
you post an example of one of the very rare instances in which mario can run up walls, once again peppino can do this anytime
mario falls into lava or into a pit or hits an enemy and fucking dies, macaroni is literally immortal outside bossfights which don't involve any platforming

>>718157559 (OP)
It's hard to make 3D games because they require a lot of 3D assets

>>718163924
I always thought the cape ruined mario world

>>718158320
I didn't play Marble Blast fully, but Marble It Up is a lot better in comparison, the physics are similar but the level design allows for much more. Optimizing the runs can be pretty fun (except on those collectathon levels, but they are just a few and you can skip them)

>>718157559 (OP)
Lange is a faggot

>>718161007
>the problem is always the same with these fangames
>it's easy to make any style of gameplay seem fun for 10 minutes on a playground level
>that doesn't tell you whether that gameplay is strong enough to carry a whole game, which is the actual difficult part

>>718163072
>people keep accidentally running into harm? no problem, we'll make it so you can't ever die
Play the game

>>718165950
>least disingenuous pizzacuck
explain how pizzaface adds platforming
>have to outrun the enemy to the exit
yep, sounds like a racing game to me

>>718165687
Sonic needs more than that because his movement relies on the terrain

>>718157559 (OP)
I'm so pissed this will remain eternally unfinished. This is the Sonic game I wanted ever since I was a kid.

>>718163982
And? Most of these games have that anyways so I don't get your point.

>>718166762
woah this rollercoaster simulator lookin good

>>718166057
>Super Mario Bros is a racing game

>>718163982
Only if your goal is to make Sonic go fast on a flat plain

I think Sonic is in a unique space to work really well with open world design, considering how important building momentum and feeling fast is. Frontiers toyed with the idea but didn't fully commit.

Hell, they could steal the Ghost of Tsushima idea for guiding players to locations by having the captured animals Sonic saves guide him towards points of interest.

>>718162552
>I think a Sonic game like in the gif OP posted absolutely can work. They just have no desire to make such a game because they are hacks
funny how nobody ever has managed to do this, not even the legions of autistic fans pumping out fangames every day
it's almost like... it doesn't work
but hey, if you say it's because everyone but you is a stupid hack, why not show them how it's done?

>>718157559 (OP)
spindashing is fucking broken in 3d sonic
>pinball physics and floaty physics means any obstacles can be easily bypassed by jumping around them
>ridiculous acceleration trivializes the need to build speed, breaking time attack. in 3D, level design is expansive and open and you always see ahead of yourself, so mandatory loss of momentum hardly happens unlike in 2D games
>spindashing makes you effectively invulnerable against most threats. this is a no-no in a platformer. imagine how trivial ninja gaiden (NES) would become if you had permanent spinning

>>718167526
Air drag

>>718167448
I think the level design would be very difficult to nail. Even I have a hard time imagining it.

ball physics you said?

>>718167481
Or, you know, making 3D games is hard and takes a lot of time.
Even so:
https://youtu.be/RuuDOw0CSk8?si=uW3B0E9hpGCRAxUI
https://youtu.be/GGqVfZur5ds?si=4kEVV1ur1zmM6ceh
https://youtu.be/zT2JOAx7UyY?si=1eEH3J24rlRImvof

>>718168225
>posts two demos and SA3 at home
good job proving my point

>>718167959
Part of the problem is people are stuck with an idea of Sonic's moveset. But if you want to open up the world, where Sonic's speed can really show, you need to make him more agile instead of relying on loops and whatnot.

But if you did something akin to how Sonic moved in the CD intro you get more possibilities. Sonic can vault off peaks, repel off trees, even potentially skate on water when he goes fast enough.

Even most open world games have the open world playground full of little 'jungle gym' segments that require precise movements. Frontiers tried that but it was still too mired in what they associate Sonic with. Unironically give him some parkour abilities and now vast swathes of the level can those jungle gym type courses without it seeming out of place.

I also think you could add a mechanic wherein you could burn rings to slow down time for faster split second turns and dodges while still feeling like Sonic.

>>718168331
>They don't count because I said so
It's less embarrassing if you just don't reply

>>718168352
>
But if you did something akin to how Sonic moved in the CD intro
we already have SRB2 and sega is not going down that route

>>718168481
SRB2 isn't really open world, but it does nail the vibe.

>sega is not going down that route
Yeah, which is dumb of them.

>>718162552
every single fangame so far stands as evidence to the contrary. >>718161617 explains it really well. >>718157559 (OP) and >>718161007 illustrate the dull emptiness and pointless tertiary stuff. >>718163578 is better than the others, but still all spectacle and no real threat or skill. and dont even get me started on how every roboblast video is 90% in the air with no need for any sort of slowdown or precision. theres no GAME with that shit.

>>718168480
>They don't count because I said so
none of those games resemble the OP, which is what you asked for
you specifically said "you can make OP into a full game"
you then provide tech demos (that don't even resemble OP) as proof
you are the dumbest mouthbreather on this entire site

>>718168352
I think Sonic's moveset could work in an open space but you still need to design the open world around it and that's the hard part. Giving Sonic more moves would make designing the open world even more difficult I think.

>>718163070
>those 4 steps with his arms back in ninja run mode
byoutiful

>>718163516
it's better than anything official and slopes are coming to the next major patch anyways

>>718168909
>Giving Sonic more moves would make designing the open world even more difficult I think.
On the contrary, giving him more moves lets him do more. As it stands any open world sonic is hindered by the fact his moveset is currently built for 2D games and strict hallways.

It'd be like if Mario hadn't gained all his moves in 64.

>>718169302
My god, first SRB Persona, now this? What will they think of next?

>>718169365
but sonic already have a ton of moves
>running on alls
>homing attack
>snapping onto vines, handles, and bars
>squeezing under low gaps by somersaulting
>bouncing like a ball on platforms to attain height
>triangle jump
>jumping on the walls of shafts
he doesn't need 180 somersaults since sonic moves forward all the time. long jumps are already covered by momentum-based physics (which also trivialize most of the platforming and cause levels to span like 10km in length to compensate)

>>718157559 (OP)
There is no innovation anymore because there are enough types of games that are proven to have commercial potential, that there is no profit motive to experiment. This is on top of the fact the gamers are even more closed minded compared to enjoyers of other mediums. A certain style of game needs to be done x way or it is "objectively bad design". If you try to make a unique control scheme that requires learning, most people will just write you off at the bat.

>>718169365
>giving him more moves lets him do more
... yes... thats the point. it makes it far more complicated. you need to create situations where these moves are useful. also, you need to ALWAYS remember ALL of the things that he can do. if you dont, then you've once again fallen for spectacle and forgotten the game/challenge. you cant just launch into the stratosphere at will and skip the whole level. the more you allow it, the more you have to build against it, as well as control the frame of reference and direction/objective.

lets take your mario example. when they went from 64 to sunshine, they had new moves for mario to do. this meant that in order to create actual obstacles for him, they had to take those new moves into account. any and all measurements for obstacles before were meaningless, and they had to reconsider everything. for every move you add, you need to reconsider everything so that the move doesnt trivialize everything. its a lot more complicated than you're giving it credit for.

>>718169365
Limitations breed creativity. I don't want another BOTW-like. Frontiers Sonic already is able to skip a lot with his simple moveset.

>>718168886
>rolling physics
>slopes and ramps
>speed
>open 3d levels
Please, entertain me, explain what is missing from the games i showed that don’t make them resemble the OP. What about Utopia’s gameplay is not being done in those fan games? Or do they not count if they don’t literally have the blue rat and green hills or are not Utopia specifically?

>you specifically said "you can make OP into a full game"
First of all, nta
Second, he said “I think a Sonic game like in the gif OP posted absolutely can work.” Keyword being “like”. How hyper specific are you trying to make it just dismiss every example that hurts your argument?

>>718169961
>knuckles
>tails
>mario world with the cape or blue yoshi
>srb2
yes, flying is always baby bitch mode where you dont engage with the level.

>>718169961
>>718170242
This is why S3&K had to dedicate large parts of every level to making Knuckles-exclusive alternate routes, and why in turn Sonic's level design suffered because it locked him down to one or two routes instead of multiple paths like Sonic 2.

>>718169949
>running on alls
Only ever used in set pieces.
>homing attack
Is used like a crutch.
>snapping onto vines, handles, and bars
Is very underused, and should be a bigger part of gameplay in any hypothetical open world Sonic.
>squeezing under low gaps by somersaulting
You mean sliding?
>bouncing like a ball on platforms to attain height
I wouldn't really call this a move, since it's mostly done on spring pads.
>triangle jump
Once again only really used in specific set piece spots.
>jumping on the walls of shafts
I don't know what you mean by this.

You could easily convert a lot of these to make them work great in an open world, the spinning on poles and stuff especially. Image using a little tree for a big burst of quick speed, or being able to run atop treetops.

>>718170106
I'm not disagreeing with you, I just think it can be done.

>>718170180
I don't think Sonic would ever be BoTW-like.

>>718168839
Yeah, fuck fangames for not having budgets or teams willing to spend several years working on a concept that clearly takes longer to get down than solved design issues like 2D Sonic or hallway 3D Sonic. Hell, SRB2 has been worked on since Quake 1 was still considered new. One of the fangames I remember being impressed by was I think called Sonic GT and even then it was just two levels and a boss.
Utopia is fun proof of concept. Three issues is that it's arguably a bit too big for its own good since there's a lot of empty space, enemies aren't aggressive enough, this was something I liked in GT in how enemies actually tried to keep up with Sonic's speed, and the obvious lack of any kind of objectives. Utopia, as a traditional go from A to B, would be pretty boring or the complexity of the levels would have to be drastically increased. But as a more Mario style collecthathon with a lot of different objectives and NPC's to talk to for missions and challenges, I'm not seeing the problem.

>>718170415
they cant even make a single level to exemplify their precious concept. its not about budget. its about their vision always being about the thrill of a rollercoaster and nothing else. zoom zoom zoom. thats it. massive airtime to skip the whole level, tons of irrelevant shit littered all over like a skate park but has no bearing on the objective (getting from A to B), non-threatening enemies (or no enemies at all, lol). its all about the thrill of things whooshing past, and/or the thrill of the view while in the air.

>>718170378
>sliding?
sa2 had somersaulting. heroes changed it to sliding but replaced spindashing with the gay, inconsistent garbage known as "rocket accel"
>I don't know what you mean by this.
climbing vertical shafts via wall jumps. super mario 64 has this too (e.g. rainbow road)

>>718170362
Go look at a level map of the average sonic 3 level compared to a sonic 2 level. Sonic 2’s levels are way simpler than you seem to think

>>718170180
Why is it ok for Mario to get 5 different flavors of jump for his 3D game but God forbid sonic be able to grab ledges

>>718168225
Spark doesn't look like it has rolly physics. Loop-de-loops don't really count. Rascal is fine, maybe too fast for me. Lina feels like the right pace and has more variety in curvature, including walls.

Overall, my assessment is that these characters are all really fucking ugly that it makes me want to throw up.

>>718169949
Sonic has never had all these moves in one game and half of them are basic movement abilities that should be standard for any 3D platformer

>>718171101
Again, fuck them for not putting in the time for the game they wouldn't even be able to make a cent from, right? Something like SRB2 is an exceptional outlier, not the norm. Some of those issues you mention can be tweaked. Like the speed doesn't need to be as high, specially if the level isn't as big. Gravity can be heavier to not have the player fly across the level. You could even take some cues from the Rush games and how you can do tricks in the air Tony Hawk style which could fill up a meter to allow extra moves to be unlocked.
Posts like yours are like going back to 1995 and saying 3D Mario would never work.

SRB2 is Sonic perfected. You don't need any more than this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVVYnSE-N7M

>>718171374
Mario's speed is more limited

>>718171454
> these characters are all really fucking ugly that it makes me want to throw up.
Just say you’re gay

>>718171374
ledge-grabbing literally kills your speed. what's worse, climbing animations are irksome. it makes no sense to design levels around it when you can just add springs that thrust you just high enough to clear ledges

>>718157559 (OP)
Sonic had.......a rough trannysiton to the third dimension...to be frank.....

>>718161779
>resold censored version with shadow dlc
now it's the perfect time for it to die

>>718171593
>slowly badnik bouncing over the intended level design
SRB2 would suck infinitely less ass if they actually did add a homing attack, SRB2 is one of the best arguments for the Homing Attack
if Sonic Adventure 1 or 2 played like this they would've been panned
people overstate how much being a ball is "important" to Sonic and forget about simple fucking RUNNING

>>718157559 (OP)
Sega are just lazy. They could make SA3 at any time, they just don't care to.

>>718171828
Plastic bimbos turn me off. And her design is a mess. She doesn't get a pass just because she's a girl.

>>718172027
>Rewarding enemy placement memorisation and precise gameplay with skipping difficult sections is bad actually
I'm glad some of you retards will never make a game

>>718172047
They made it in 06

>>718172424
06 is and adventure reboot.

>>718172312
>enemy placement memorization
Or you could just avoid them entirely

>>718172604
But that's no fun, is it? Momentum and bouncing exists in good Sonic games for a reason.

>>718171806
And? 3D sonic already lacks a lot of basic movement abilities that has made platformining one note throughout Sonic's 3D history. There's less skill expression in 3D Sonic compared to Mario because Sonic has little to no movement tech and no moves to facilitate movement tech

>>718171976
>ledge-grabbing literally kills your speed
Not if you do it Rayman 2 style.

Make Monkey Ball with larger scale levels maybe?

>>718172842
Ah yes, the exciting momentum of floating in the air like you’re underwater and dashing mid air like you’re dante

>>718172424
Yeah it sucked, do it again but put some effort in. Instead of rushing the holiday deadline and splitting the team in half to go work on the auto runner wii games at the same time.

>>718173073
no one plays monkey ball anymore

>>718171536
yes, fuck them for having no passion and no real vision/understanding. they quite literally CANT make their idea work.

>>718173086
Yes. Sonic games are platformers where you fuck around with physics for fun, and enemies are nothing more than objects for you to bounce off of like a pinball around the level, because it's fun.

>>718171976
It's not about designing around it, it's about giving Sonic the ability to not get fucked over from missing a platform by an inch, or getting screwed over from slipping off a ledge. This isn't a complicated ask, it’s basic qol

Still my favourite Rouge art.

>>718172179
Again, just say you're gay

>>718171593
>slow and stupid floating with fucking moon gravity.
this is such retarded garbage.

>>718173270
Sure, if you ignore 1,2,3, CD, and heroes

>>718173383
Download a random fan level and record yourself bouncing through the whole level if it's so easy then. Surely you can do it if it's so slow?

>>718173767
FUCK
Meant for >>718173240

>>718173292
good. die. fuck you too for being retarded and missing the point. your argument of "small indy dev, pls understand uwu" doesnt hold water. its flawed from a fundamental standpoint, and you can literally SEE it through the VARIOUS other works that people put their best effort into. they tend to share really common ideas and they iterate on them slightly differently to varying degrees. but across the board, they fucking suck ass and lack GAME. they dont need to be a full game with 10-20 fine tuned levels, thats not what im saying. im saying that they cant even make ONE level not be hot garbage under their design idea. there is no merit their idea, because their idea is empty and vapid.

>>718173767
>Sure, if you ignore 1,2,3, CD
You've outed yourself as a tourist who doesn't play Sonic games. No more (You)s from me.
>heroes
lol. lmao.

LOL

please save us rougeposter! this is boring

>>718173383
Moon gravity , that’s the word I was looking for. You’re floating between platforms the size of a suburban park and anon acts like this is precision platforming

>>718173849
>he doesn't pinball bounce on enemies in 1,2,3,cd
ngmi

>>718163070
sonic if he american

>>718173960
I’ve been playing sonic since I was 9 years old in boys n girls club on a genesis. Try making an actual argument

>>718174083
Good luck doing that in metropolis zone or sandopolis

>>718174135
>in boys n girls club
lmao you're brown

>>718159110
Counterpoint: Trackmania has plenty of platforming levels and it literally is a racing game. In regard to that game in particular, a lot of mechanics rely on eccentric parts of the game it runs on, but movement options are incredibly well documented and are diverse enough to make maps where you climb an Only Up style tower pretty popular. There is a world where speed and platforming can co-exist.

>>718174301
Im not, but keep avoiding an actual argument

>>718174354
hispanics arent white
arabs arent white
slavs arent white
etc etc

>>718174427
>still can’t make any kind of response so he resorts to accusing other people of being brown
I accept your concession

>>718173884
Making original 3D games is a far bigger investment than a 2D game. And I have seen several of these random attempts and they are fun to move around in. The only thing that's arguably lacking is an objective and even then they usually have some end point for the demo to be over.

>>718172179
That design got smoothed out recently but she's still a cartoony pinup thing so I'm not sure if that'll do anything for you

Would pic related be a good open world for a Sonic game?

>>718173305
>>718173409
ok you've convinced me she's very sexy. not like I needed much convincing.

>>718157559 (OP)
On the fangame side, it's because 3D games are very hard to make in comparison to pixel 2D ones in regards to sonic because of how it fucks with the logistics of both design and asset creation. Making 3D assets is very time consuming and on the design side, 3D sonics with rolling physics introduce too much variance on what Sonic's possible position could be which makes it hard to curate an enjoyable experience for test audiences since a 10% difference in speed could be the difference between smacking into the side of a cliff and landing on it.
Not to mention all of the out-of-bounds sections Sonic could end up, large portions of Sonic 3's level design had to be dedicated to infinitely tall walls to prevent level skips.

Same op I also hated sonic frontiers because theres no physics or rolling you just full stop when not moving the stick forward and I fucking hate it. The tower climbing highlights how awkward it is to control. Other than that its a gud game ig

>>718174589
ah yes, the fun of an empty skatepark. good for all of 10 minutes. right up there with desktop destroyer.

you either have an empty skate park, where the objective is still "get from A to B", and all of the stuff on the side is irrelevant tertiary stuff, or you have empty hallways, dully whizzing by (and often with WAY too much airtime and air control). boy, the wind sure feels good at the front of the boat, eh rose? whoopdi fuckin doo. "THATS what sonic's about! see? it can WORK" and its the biggest nothingburger, like a single panel for a building face in a movie set.

>>718174936
3d assets dont even have to look good. do really shitty low poly placeholders, but make it work.

except they cant, because of all of the other stuff you said. THATS the bigger crux of the issue. asset making is irrelevant. its actual level design (pair with his actual controls of course) thats the issue.

>>718161617
>>718175429
Why do you guys hate skateparks?

>>718174936
thats why everyone just flies over everything in srb2. they dont give a shit. they just go "WHEEEEEE!!!" and call it a day.

I think constraining it to 2d provides a necessary focus to this kind of game. You can constrain the ball physics stuff itself to make a 3d game feasible. I guess if you really wanted to do a 3d game it would have to be a big sandbox or a tony hawk style game

>>718175713
because theres a difference between vapid ball physics in a skate park, and actual skating/tricks objectives that are designed around the skatepark. i can roll a bouncy ball around my bathtub to get the same effect as the former. its not the same as actually playing tony hawk.

>>718175907
I guess you could do a monkey ball kind of thing too where you basically go through 3d obstacle courses. That would be a fun 3d sonic game

>>718175429
Now we go back to the part where you complain these single dev efforts don't have budgets to make proper objectives. Yeah, it's just an empty level with some arbitrary endgoal for the end of the demo, no shit. Making 3D games is a bigger beast than 2D. If you're going to put that much effort into a 3D game you might as well just make it original. Like this one that's in development >>718171828

>>718174936
not to mention sonic's mechanics end up leading to stage design looking too "video gamey." just look at speed highway with its loops

>>718175691
Yeah, it's technically possible to make a Sonic game like that, it would just require a very intelligent and experienced designer and an absolute fuckton of QA.
Having lots of indoor sections would also prevent level skips but that is a very odd constraint to place on a Sonic game.

>>718176362
I think people are willing to overlook the video gamey look of the levels for the bipedal blue hedgehog.

>>718175781
The level is pretty but Sonic's model always looks gross to me in high definition

>>718176232
wtf are you talking about? i have never complained about budgets. budget is not an excuse. if you can slap together that much of a 3d game, you make ONE actual level in your spare time.
>proper objectives
yes, "get from A to B". thats it. thats all the objective that you need, and they do that. thats not the point. the point is that they either waste time with tertiary skatepark shit that doesnt matter, or they make the path/controls the dullest garbage imaginable while trying to claim how "good" it is. all they're doing to closing their eyes and coasting with their hand out the car window. theres literally nothing there. the "physics" isnt whats missing from sonic, and NONE OF THEM can illustrate it "working" without it being the dullest garbage. its just the thrill of the whoosh. thats it. and then why they do try to populate with "enemies and hazards" like srb2, they just completely avoid it by flying over everything. the thrill of the whoosh. thats it.
you. have. NOTHING.
and its not because of "cost".

>>718176362
SM64's levels consisted of platforms floating in the air, complete with revolving platforms and floor switches yet it's one of the most critically acclaimed games in history. Your point?

>>718176920
>IT JUST CAN'T BE DONE
>IT'S LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE
>NO ONE HAS EVER DONE IT
>JUST IGNORE THE EVIDENCE OF YOUR LYING EYES
https://youtu.be/QV3iA2mRGB0?si=yAHLLDiSARIwxC1o
https://youtu.be/15usADvefRM?si=c01g6gm0Vy9jCA83

>>718176012
>add a few pathways
>add ramps
>add enemies
>add some moving platforms
2D Sonic can do it, but 3D can't because...?

>>718177192
looks promising but this game is in development hell probably because of the levels considering none have proper textures

>>718176920
Have you tried Sonic GT? I mentioned it earlier and it has level design, it has physics, it has momentum, you can't just skip over half the level, enemies chase after you. It's more linear than Utopia but the baseline is there.

>>718176920
So is Mario bad because it's just running? I don't get it. Sounds like you hate platformers. Rolling is fun even if it's not super complex. You kinda sound like the guy on the right of this clip

>>718177192
>oh look, a sandbox with endless floating and ten tons of irrelevant bullshit.
but man, look at that speed boost across the ground when they came down on that ramp, right? fucking SICK!
zoom zoom, whoosh whoosh.
thanks for proving my point.

>>718177667
Almost like it's the same fun as doing it in 2D. Are you sure you actually like Sonic? It might just not be your thing.

>>718177667
You're just baiting for (You)s at this point

>>718163273
Yes

>>718177619
mario isnt about just "zoom zoom, go whoosh". its a game designed to be engaged with. you take your time to find things and engage with them. sonic (and especially zoom zoom whoosh momentum sonic) is not the same. its not even apples to oranges, its apples to hammers.

>>718177849
i love sonic 1, 2, 3&k, and sa2. generations was decent.

>>718158562
if it was on the dreamcast, you would have eaten it up

>>718171998
Kys /vpol/ tourist

>>718178045
super mario 64 would benefit from a clock. it would actually force players to try

>>718178143
fuck no, it's the other way around
if any of these shit fangames were officially published, these same faggots would be shitting on them instead

>>718157559 (OP)
>YOU CANT MAKE A GAME ABOUT GOING FAST WITH SLOPES- ACK

>>718178134
So why complain about "speed boost across the ground when they came down on that ramp" when that's exactly what the Genesis games did?

>>718178252
>Yes
not him but you're a tranny for defending censorship

>>718178257
You should play Billy Hatcher.

>>718174802
TDM Rouge...

>>718178278
Bad example

>>718178335
it wasnt a complaint, it was illustrating how you disingenuous retards think that such a simple thing trumps all of the other problems with the design of the game. its all spectacle.
>>718178278
why dont you just play a bullet hell if you want to slowly avoid hazards left and right?

>>718178679
Those other games are tech demos, where's the level design. You ask for level design, you get level design, you complain. I give up on this conversation. It's clear nothing sort of a fully finished AAA tier product is going to change your mind.

>>718157559 (OP)
THAT DEMO WAS 10 YEARS AGOO AAAA a,AA ,AAAA,A A a.,AA AAAAA,AAAa aAAA a a.aaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa,aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

>>718178679
>all of the other problems with the design of the game.
Such as?

>its all spectacle.
>>718177192

>>718162552
>They just have no desire to make such a game because they are hacks and they just want to keep milking the IP with shit games.
>>718170415
>fuck fangames for not having budgets or teams willing to spend several years working on a concept that clearly takes longer to get down than solved design issues like 2D Sonic or hallway 3D Sonic
Isn't your point that it would be super easy for Sonic Team to simply just make Momentum: The Game but they're too lazy to and don't care about Sonic? Why can't the so-called "passionate" fans just do it better in their free time if it's so easy? Why has Sonic Utopia taken 10 years without finishing any new levels, if Lange and his team are supposedly smarter and more passionate than the hack frauds at Sonic Team? The fans have it figured out right? All those 1000 page google docs of idea guy bullshit they spammed at Kishimoto should be enough of a blueprint to make the perfect Sonic game right?

Why do none of them follow through on it, then?

>>718179167
no way... well i hope theres 90s 3d sonic nostalgia so we can get adventure sonic at home.

just 1 step away from a Sonic GL like

>>718179046
you're literally too stupid to insult.
their "tech demo" is just "zoom zoom, whoosh".
their best attempt at level design is just "zoom zoom, whoosh" (and/or with extra shit on the sides that theres no reason to ever engage with because it doesnt bring you closer to the goal. "but its such a fleshed out 3d environment, right?!")

its all just empty thoughts and half baked wishful thinking. theres no substance to ANY of it. the spectacle does not supersede the flaws and general dullness of gameplay.
the fact that you think im looking for something AAA is just proof of how retarded you are and how hard you've missed the point. did you personally develop one of these fan projects? because you seem empty headed enough that you might have.

>>718179589
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmx0Hs9a00Q
kino

>>718157559 (OP)
>What is so hard about making a platformer with ball physics.
In 3D? It's terribly counterintuitive, from a design standpoint.
You're spending time and resources on a sandbox that the player is meant to skip over most of.
It's why those indie Sonic-likes never caught on, look up the "good" gameplay of something like Penny's Big Breakway, it's just players literally flying over the actual platforms. It LOOKS cool, but nobody except speedrun autists actually wants to play that.

>>718179238
When did I say it was easy? Of course it's hard. That's why I mentioned SRB2 has been in development for an insane amount of time. If it was easy Sonic Team would've done so already.
>>718179671
It's easy to dismiss any game, specially those still in development, by describing it like a retard. For someone who likes 2D Sonic I'm sure you've heard your fair share of "sonic is just press right to win" and "if the game is all about going fast why do I have to slow down to do platforming".

>>718179990
>It's another "it's ok when Nintendo does it" episode
https://youtu.be/H9Yh8e05ESU?si=w80Djjn-KRbwjhCw

>>718179981
cool. soon there will be doom 3 and duke hukem forever mods

>>718180513
that game was made for you to break its levels with DKs tech. i dont like it because theres no rules for the area your breaking compared to DK64

>>718174649
plz respond

Anyone looking forward to SAGE this year?

>>718181565
Answering questions about level design is really hard because it depends on all sorts of things like, movement ability, sight lines, points of interest...etc.

>>718181565
idk dude I'd have to like, play it

>>718181565
It's hard to evaluate level design in a vacuum since it's so heavily reliant on the gameplay. Specially for a top down view.

>>718181580
yeah. its amazing how the games come out being