Thread 718169895

Do you like magic in souls games?

>>718169895 (OP)
I like it, but why is it always so generic? It feels like just by movement alone, they could have tried so much stuff, but no.

>>718169895 (OP)
Love/hate relationship
On one hand, it's kino as fuck but the fact it's limited by casts/mana is retarded to the point that either you know your planned route and what's coming up or else you only really use it for bosses

it's why I play with infinite casts/mana and use low tier spells

No, I hate blue
But I do like the purple magic they put in ER because purple is based

>>718169895 (OP)
Sometimes. I really liked a lot of the cosmic themed spells in Elden Ring, summoning meteors, black holes, Singularities etc.

>>718169895 (OP)
I only used it in Das1. In DeS I just went with the whole unga bunga club/greatsword combo with heavy armor. I did like it in 1 but I also was a bit of a spellsword, using melee and magic together. I also refused to wear some of the silly armor choices like Dusk's little helmet thing or some rings.

I guess I did "magic" in Bloodborne with 99 Arcane but again, a spellsword with some occasional magic like Executioner Gloves and Blacksky Eye. Also Kos Parasite, a Fire Saw Spear and Electric Kirkhammer were my bread and butter.

>>718169895 (OP)
I like it when it has cool animations like in DS2 and ER. In DS1 and 3 you just wave your wand/staff around like a weenie

>>718169895 (OP)
The gook who made dark souls 2 was also heavily involved with ER.

This gook fag had a huge bias for Magic and against melee. The lock on points for the bosses suck, the camera is outdated, and melee range still is trash.

You can tell it was all designed for Magic and it makes the game incredibly easy.

No.
It's another resource to juggle that I don't think justifies itself, especially for what's considered "easy mode."

>>718169895 (OP)
It's the only playstyle I enjoy. I can't force myself to like melee builds; I've tried.

>>718172043
>spoiler
You didn't beat the game. In fact you didn't even play the game.

I need to vent. I'm about to go Hollow in real life because of this fucker. I have 36 Faith but my Sunlight Blade on a +10 Lightning Heide Spear adds literally 0 (zero) damage to him despite apparently having a Lightning weakness. All his attacks two-shot me even with my best Dark resistant armor and GMB. I bought every available Human Effigy in addition to the 20 I had coming into the questline and I still couldn't beat him. Half the time Havel took me out before I could even reach Darklurker. I legitimately think this is a lot worse than Bed of Chaos. At least that boss saves your progress and doesn't cost a goddamn Humanity each attempt. Now I have no souls, no effigies, no brightbugs, and no Lightning Urns with nothing to show for it.

>>718169895 (OP)
No, especially not in Elden Ring. If you chuck spells in Elden Ring you are literally retarded and should play something else.

>>718171969
Try Nightreign. The caster character fixes a lot about From spellcasters.

>>718169895 (OP)
No.
The big, flashy spells are usually not worth using, especially when running through an actual level, too mana expensive. So you end up just shooting the pussiest little blue magic missiles at everything and it kinda sucks.
I love magic users and I played one for my first DeS run. It was fine, but my second run was a knight and it was so much better.

>>718173285
Beat them all, actually
Well not ER since when you realize how easy it is to fuck over the AI due to it button reading, it's too easy

Also technically never did beat Sekiro since the game is boring as fuck

>>718173708
DeS at least had mana regeneration. I don't think that's even a thing in the later games.

>>718173809
>spellchucker retard can't play the game where it can't chuck shitty spells
No shit

Incants are better. You get cooler stuff.

>>718169895 (OP)
hehe borger king

>>718173392
STR is the actual retard easy mode build in ER

>>718173871
Its not, they want you to rely on limited spells. DeS introduced stuff as simple as NPCs moving from a new location but its a lost art in garbage like Elden Ring.

>>718174063
You do realize that outside of SotFS, Sekiro is literally the easiest fucking game they made, right?
every single boss has a hard counter in a tool. You can run past 99% of enemies without an issue. It's the only game that actually had proper hit boxes and had the AI play somewhat by the same rules.

It's like you only play DS3 or some shit
But melee > magic for almost every souls game with the except of bloodborne where the gloves just wreck everything

>>718174168
>um actually, the way you're supposed to play makes the game easy!
No shit, hence spellchucking retards being extra retarded
>>718174237
>UM SUCKIRO IS ACTUALLY EASY!!!
Then why can't you play it, spellchucker?

>>718174343
Because I didn't see the point in doing NG+
I tried it for an hour or so and the charmdidn't make a difference really since I was good at blocking

my apologies if you considered 'beating the game' as just beating NG, I only considered it with NG+ and refusing the charm

But the tools are like spells but that's not the problem really. Ichimonji breaks the game in half and what can't be beaten by that and tool abuse can be beaten with the one monk art that fucks you around through the air

>>718173372
Clear bluestone ring +2 and chloranthy +2 help. Though yeah that boss is still a bitch. Casting is def the way to go.

>>718173809
>never did beat Sekiro
>>718174635
>UM actually I got into NG+!!
Which is it, spellchucker? Or are you a faggot anon stepping in to defend random retards
You're either gay or lying

>>718169895 (OP)
Sorcery is usually either overpowered or at least strong.
But it is also usually really boring to use because you only get various types of blue lasers with a minimum of unique spells otherwise.
Miracles/Incantations are usually way more diverse and interesting, by comparison. Even if often they're a bit weaker.

Elden Ring has this particularly badly, because Pyromancies were folded in with Miracles for the Incantation category, so you get access to a crazy amount of unique spells when leveling Faith compared to what you'd get from leveling Intelligence.

>>718173372
Didn't see this, sorry.
Lightning miracles are great against it
it's actually a proper endgame bonus boss, as in to be done just before Nashandra or at least after the four Old Lords so be around level 100+ at least

>>718174770
Right, it's not beaten since it's not done without the charm, anon
It's like saying you beat DS2 and never did it on NG++ where it all changes with extra enemies

If want to be technically retarded, sar, I did indeed beat Sekiro on NG, just not beat it on NG+

you do realize you're trolling, right?

I miss in ds2 how strong faith was at launch. They nerfed it to hell.

>>718174920
>OMG HE CALLED ME A SPELLCHUCKER, I HAVE TO LIE!!
lol
>If want to be technically retarded, sar
lmao
>that spacing
lmfao
Kill yourself, projecting pajeet spellchucker

>>718175114
>asks you not to troll
>you quadruple down and engage in the ray-cism
yikes!

>>718175149
Will spellchuckers ever not be retarded and brown?

>>718174812
ER sorceries still follow the magic karasawa beams idea from Souls for the most part, but they added a lot more variety in terms of everything so it's nowhere as boring as it used to be in the past, especially since they slapped some old pyromancies and hexes in the INT/FTH niche.
FTH did get the lion's share of novelties though, that much is sure, not to mention how catalysts are no longer stupid fucking bells or some used up handkerchiefs

>>718175385
>>718174812
I think the biggest issue in ER is that sorcery literally has pebble and arc, at the start and arc is generally the best mana to damage for groups and can carry you easily

Faith doesn't really get anything outside of the starting spell that you can spam in melee. Even then the only 'good' one it gets is the black fireball that does the DoT

Ultimately Faith is held back by high mana costs compared to the basic black bitch two sorceries that sorcery has. Even including Raya Lucaria Acedmy, sorcery can still carry you against the harder enemies. An extra pebble or two isn't that much more of a cost.

it's even good against the fucking dragons with magic resist due to how fast it can cast

Miracles are utter shit in response

>>718173446
no it doesn't
the spells are exactly the same

>>718169895 (OP)
The first time I played DaS1 I did a str/fai character. I struggled through the game and finally beat it.
My second character was a dex/int and I absolutely btfo'd the entire game.part of it was knowing the game much better and the other part was 900dmg soul spears. I've rarely had so much fun playing a video game.
I'll always enjoy being a souls wizard. Magic is incredibly fun.

The DLC basically just gives you infinite levels at a certain point.
I'm already past the softcap on INT and am just putting levels there because I have nothing else to do with them.
Should I just Larval tear and put anything past 60 INT into Faith and start fucking around with Incantations? Or is 32 Faith too low to actually do anything useful at this point in the game?

>>718169895 (OP)
>Soul arrow
>Great soul arrow
>Heavy soul arrow
>Great heavy soul arrow
>Lighting spear
>Great lighting spear
>Sunlight spear
>Fire orb
>Great fire orb
>Chaos fire orb
magic in souls games is so fucking boring and monotone holy shit

>>718169895 (OP)
The games have gotten a lot better with spell variety. Fucking ds1 and having like 10 different soul arrows was ass

>>718175589
>I think the biggest issue in ER is that sorcery literally has pebble and arc
Who the fuck ever uses Glinstone Pebble and Arc? Am I back in 2023 where retards were ranting about some dubious FP to damage efficiency meme?
They're dogshit, I could made a case for maybe Arc but INT has so many ranged AoE options you shouldn't use Arc past the first hour or so.
>Faith doesn't really get anything outside of the starting spell that you can spam in melee
Bloodflame Talons alone proves you wrong
>Miracles are utter shit in response
INT has NOTHING that can match the sheer DPS of spells like Ancient Dragon's Lightning Strike or Pest Threads spear, lmao

>>718175850
no, go to 80 int

>>718175850
80 is the second softcap for str/dex/int/fai/arc
But academy glintstone staff is the best part
Then I'd go for staff of the great beyond and pump faith so you can use it to cast both sorceries and miracles
Lusat's is technically strongest but only use it for bosses since it uses more mana

>>718175950
Hi again

It was the best in demon's souls and only got worse from there. Elden Ring magic is actually horrible

>>718175850
INT softcap is 80 not 60

>>718169895 (OP)
Yes
>>718174812
Retard

>>718176063
Technically the absolute strongest staff in the game is prince of death at 80 INT and 80 FTH
it's stronger than Lusat's

>>718176284
True but isn't that only with like 80/80? And only lets the player cast sorceries?
Anon wanted to do miracles so I suggested the staff to get both

And I mean Lusat's for pure int

>>718175850
Go to the 200 cap if you want, 60/60 INT/FTH gets good firepower thanks to the Golden Order Seal and the Staff of the Great Beyond.
You're going to lose some potential DPS compared to pure INT but you do get a lot more options, 70/70 is also not terrible either if you want to sacrifice some stats somewhere else for higher damage but I personally wouldn't recommend it, it's much better to invest on more END imo so you have enough stamina to cast and move more.

all dragon incantations are so cool, if it wasnt for the dragon moan and png flash i would actually use them

>>718169895 (OP)
Not. I did one mage playthrough in DS1 and disliked it so much, I avoided magic entirely up until Elden Ring. In ER, I used Bloodflame Blade on my spiked caestus and that one purifying spell, but that was it.

>>718176642
Dragon spells are cool but most of them come with some major caveats.
Dragonmaw has bullshit posture damage but it takes a million years to finish the spell even at 70 DEX and the aiming is rather poor, Dragon Claw has lower posture damage but higher damage and it's even slower and more unsafe.
Most breaths got nerfed badly but they're still largely good simply because they let FTH cover all possible elemental weaknesses, they shine more in PvP than PvE nowadays but Agheel's, Borealis' and Theodorix' are still heavy hitters if you get all the hits in.
Greyoll's Roar is the GOAT debuff incantation and really solid overall outside of the poor damage and Bayle's spells are still buggy trash nobody should ever consider using since they've got three ways split damage, dogshit hitboxes and are overall wholly inferior to Dragonmaw and Dragon Claw.

Then there's Placy's ghidora beam which for some reason doesn't count as Dragon Communion and is only good for the lightning fast jumping AoE in PvP, honestly the Dragon communion spells on their own are fairly dubious, they're carried hard by the Dragon Communion Seal which is the real broken shit even after it got nerfed badly.

>>718176415
prince of death's in 1 hand and golden order seal in the other if you want to go true omnicaster
if you're suicidal it can be achieved a lot earlier than you might think if you're willing to go full glass canon with beloved starlight and only put points into INT, FTH and Mind

>>718177153
>which is the real broken shit even after it got nerfed badly.
frenzied burst sniping was the dumbest thing ever, but it was also hilarious to break it out against someone being flanked by 2 lv 200+ password summons

magic started off being stupid broken, it was like playing with a DEX weapon which had infinite range. Then it got nerfed more and more, until finally in ER it's actually worse than all other starting builds.

STR memes are pure redditcore at this point. You haven't beaten ER unless you've done pure dex. In terms of ease STR> INT> FTH> DEX

Not really. The idea of magic is cool but juggling multiple spells has always felt awkward and tedious in souls games. I was playing Elden Ring a couple weeks ago with incantations and was fun for a while, I kept thinking I'd rather just play something like Dragon's Dogma which is much better for using multiple spells with ease.

>>718177652
>not exclusively putting points into int, fai, and mind as the only way to play wizard
shiggy

>>718177928
I will not abuse STR when fromshit finally makes a game that plays exactly like Dragon's dogma

>>718177928
Dex is the easiest build in ER though.

>>718178181
>no stagger
>no range
nah

>>718177928
DEXniggers get bloodhound's fang and reduvia as crutches early

>>718175850
This MFer is only level 180??

>>718177896
magic didn't get nerfed per se, it's just that ER bosses have a lot more gap closers
which culminates with the DLC in which the gap closers of several bosses are several orders of magnitude more dangerous than their regular moveset so even magic sticks up right next to them

>>718177896
Wrong
>>718178571
Magic staggers reliably since DS3

>>718178704
magic has shit stagger until you get into the mid game and get all the right components for your build (not a blind playthrough), but if you do that then you can do it for any build at all and just do better anyways.

>>718177770
>frenzied burst sniping was the dumbest thing ever
RIP my beloved sniper rifle, at least you can still oneshot people with Unendurable Frenzy tjese days but it's not the same...

>>718169895 (OP)
It's the same as the melee: stiff, full of boring canned animations and effects and lacking interactive mechanics.

>>718169895 (OP)
I like doing a magic run after a regular melee physical guy, though I usually find the magic build is worse and clunkier.

>>718177928
I haven't done it, but I imagine Dex has to be suffering, especially in the DLC where everything has huge poise and zero hit stop against anything that isn't a Great 'XYZ'.
I know you'll do great DPS, but everything has to just poise through your shit and then dick slap you.

>>718179378
DEX can still put Giant Hunt or Stamp on a Flamberge and delete poise, nevermind shit like the Dragon King's Cragblade

>>718169895 (OP)
Blue Dex

>Try magic in every entry
>Just slamming shit with a giant weapon or using low stat requirement shit is more effective
I never really got the complaints, is a it just having some range?

>>718169895 (OP)
I like how the magic is in the lore and there's usually a couple spells I love but mechanically I've always hated it, not enough to not play int characters but enough that I'm always wishing I'd just picked something else. It took until Nightreign for them to come up with a system that doesn't involve excessive slot cycling and they counterbalanced that by randomizing everything so you almost never find a staff with two good spells anyway.

>>718180020
Magic used to be busted in DeS (what wasn't though?) due to enemies being dogshit and some egregiously broken spells like Fire Spray, so STR sissies whined and moaned a lot about it being supposedly easy mode.
Come DS1 you had pyromancies, which ignored stat requirements making SL1 Pyro builds pretty ridiculous in the grand scheme of things, and with the DLC sorceries got some other broken stuff with Soul Beads being able to delete things from a safe distance, but even there DS1 was a broken game where you had to actually look for something that wasn't broken so even there it was all kinda relative and the fame of magic being easy mode was largely due to low IRL INT people who honestly believed their honoraburu knight with a zwei or a claymore wasn't broken shit.
Generally speaking magic in the Souls game was a very mixed bag for the longest time.