Thread 718204881

Why is it so controversial to be able to talk down your enemy using reason and logic? Not only is it a roleplaying game with options but Humans have been doing that in times of war for thousands of years.

If u west, then u can't east.

because dialogue trees hold back gaming. the only way to execute this well is with a complex parser but it's not really feasible

>>718204881 (OP)
The hoard of browns that inhabit /v/ only see violence as the answer to any problem. It's the 80 IQ lifestyle.

>>718204881 (OP)
Because shitposters dont play FNV or Fallout games period.

>>718204952
If only caesar had considered this before mobilizing an entire army, what a goof

>>718204881 (OP)
The problem was never Lanius leaving.
Consider it from his perspective: He just watched an absolute GOD demolish his entire invading force. By the time the courier reaches him he knows he has no chance. "muh supply lines" (which is a Barter check btw) is a way for him to save face, get out and lick his wounds while he still can.
What DOESN'T make sense is:
Why the FUCK would the courier let Lanius leave? There is no logical reason for the courier to not kill him on the spot. There is no upside to letting him live and a shitton of obvious downsides. He will just come back with a bigger army later.
If I was the NCR, House, or Yes Man and I saw the courier destroy an entire invasion but let the commander leave and let him regroup to stage a bigger invasion later, I'd be furious.

>>718204881 (OP)
Conceptually, there's nothing wrong with this. It works in Fallout 1 where you have to actually have evidence and piece together your argument yourself from a selection of choices. It sucks when you just arbitrarily assign points to speech and then just select the speech option brainlessly to fast talk an army's general into retreating who should logically know that to do so would mean his own death.

>>718205362
Lanius is either going to get furiously reprimanded by Caesar if hes alive and either die or Lanius will leave or fight his way out. Then he’ll take his followers if he has any and become a warlord, sowing division in the Legion that already exists. Graham fucked up once and got tossed into the Grand Canyon while on fire, Lanius is not going back to his position as Caesars top henchman.

>>718204881 (OP)
It's only controversial because it's poorly implemented in New Vegas. The player has perfect information and just clicks the big numbers for a free win assuming they meet some skill prerequisites
It's not controversial in Fallout 1 where there's other variables like gathering info beforehand, imperfect information, both a special threshold and a proper speech check, and unmarked speech options you actually have to read

>>718205536
>mfw the fort gets ravaged by the securitron army during the 2nd battle

Im fine with speech checks. But they should either
A)Not tell you which is the speech check option
B)Not always = Win

>>718204881 (OP)
>Why is it so controversial to be able to talk down your enemy using reason and logic?
Fairly unrealistic, most people are entitled to their opinion and only argue to push their ideas, not argue in good faith

>>718205656
This

>>718204881 (OP)
Sure bro, I bet Mao Zedong could have just talked Chang Kai Shek into accepting communism if they sat down to tea ceremony together.

uhhh heard of supply lines bro? maybe look into it

It makes sense to talk down The Master because he/they/it are intelligent and want to make the next stage of humanity to do good but don't know he/they/it fucked up.
It doesn't make sense to talk down Lanius because he's an insane tribal warlord who is part of a dysfunctional raider tribe who are intentionally made to only understand and respect brutal violence.

>>718205362
>Why the FUCK would the courier let Lanius leave
Because he's a nice guy and he likes him

>There is no logical reason for the courier to not kill him on the spot.
There doesn't have to be. People are not entirely rational actors. They can do things for stupid, emotional reasons, like being a big softy for guys with metal masks.

>>718205536
Why the fuck would you ever be fighting the battle at Hoover Dam without killing Caesar first?

>>718204881 (OP)
In the context of talking down Lanius from fighting and getting him to retreat it makes no sense. What Lanius is convinced of is what could happen should he continue to push westward, that doesn't mean he needs to retreat from where he stands. As it is it just makes the Legion look like pussies who got punked out by a mailman.

>>718206441
>but don't know he/they/it fucked up.
People forget this part, the Master's speech check required obtaining key items before hand. A combat build can just fuck him up with what they have on hand but a non-combat build has to fill out some checklists first to bypass the final encounters (which are balanced around combat builds). New Vegas should've had quest lines about subverting the Legion's intelligence networks, sabotaging their supply lines, and fomenting unrest further east so that they would be forced to pull away and leave pretty much nobody but locals for hoover dam.

>>718206441
>It makes sense to talk down The Master because he/they/it are intelligent and want to make the next stage of humanity to do good but don't know he/they/it fucked up.
Imagine if someone walked up to you while you were at work and told you your company was fake and gay
Would you instantly stop working and kill yourself? Is that really the very first thing you would do?
THIS is why talking down someone fucking sucks. For it to work, it relies on your opponent being both retarded and trusting to unreal degrees.

>>718204881 (OP)
>Why is it so controversial to be able to talk down your enemy using reason and logic
What could I possibly say that would get you to stop making threads on this dogshit game every single day for years on end? Think about it and realize how retarded this fantasy is. All of these glorified western VNs where you walk 10 miles to do 2 brief skill checks then beeline to the next marker are all the same. They're grim, casual power fantasies where retarded teens can pretend to be moral arbiters. A wandering fedora priest delivering the word of "facts and logic."

>>718210224
I mean he didn't notice his new race were impotent. That's one of the first considerations you should have for new species.

>>718211324
Why do you think this passes as conversation? Is this satisfying to you?

>>718211324
Exactly, so it required three things in order to make sense:
1) A character intelligent enough to come up with this plan, execute it, and also be open to conversation to overlook something glaringly critical
2) For this intelligent character to instantly believe a stranger who introduced themselves as an enemy, usually at gunpoint
and 3) For this enemy's single conversation to unanimously and instantly sway this intelligent character to the point where they immediately surrender and undo their life's work on the spot

It's ridiculous.

>>718205656
So instead of Lanius from Fallout New Vegas you'd prefer someone more like Ulysses from Fallout New Vegas?

>>718204881 (OP)
Every single one of these threads is exactly the same and they have been for years. Move on to something else already. You could have an AI post for you and there would probably be more variety.

>>718211512
Are you mad because you are also from an impotent species? Cuckus Chuddicus perhaps?

>>718204881 (OP)
Every single Black Isle/Obsidian game is designed to make dumb teens argue on the internet. That's literally all there is to them.

>>718211224
based mahirochad

>>718204881 (OP)
There are too many RPG threads. Even 95% less RPG threads would be way too many.

>>718211224
>all western RPGs have you walking for hours from witty skill check to witty skill check
>all JRPGs have you grinding for hours until you trivialize the rest of the game
What RPG subgenre targets non-autists? Does such a thing exist?

>>718204881 (OP)
Because you convince the guy who is hellbent on not making the same mistake as the last Legate to make the exact same mistake as the last Legate this is the opposite of reason and logic but they couldn't write anything smarter. It's even funnier when the current state of the NCR is on the brink of collapse and the Legion fucking knows. They wouldn't hold shit, and taking the dam would shut down House permanently. There is no threat.

>>718211795
Yeah, they should make a board for that or something.

>>718211884
If there was it wouldn't be worth mentioning because clearly this genre is not suitable for /v/ and people cannot help but make threads on the same dogshit every day. There is no RPG that would make the existence of threads like this tolerable, better to bin the entire thing.

just a reminder

>>718212012
No one cares about some faggy lore a gay Californian socialist shat out in a single day dude

>>718210224
It's been a long while since i played 1 but to be fair...isn't the master psychic? AND you need the info beforehand right?

I'd guess he reads your mind a bit, sees you're not bullshitting, and realizes he fucked up beyond belief

Not that that excuses Lanius or anything

>>718212154
Not defending NV, but that argument is shitty and you're twice as retarded as the thing pictured

>>718211795
/v/ shits on good genres with actual gameplay but then discusses storyfag rpgs in like every thread

>>718212367
>t.

>>718212462
>Posted a picture of himself
Sorry
I was wrong

THRICE as retarded

>>718205362
He won't come back though. Lanius can't maintain the Legion and Caesar is a dying man. Brutality alone can't run a nation, which is precisely why Lanius is such an effective right-hand man and why he'd be such a terrible Caesar.

>>718210224
When he has hard evidence researched by my very own lieutenant that my company is not only fake and gay but I actively made other things fake and gay in pursuit of what I thought was the only better future, yeah i'd self destruct that shit you fucking retard.
How about you actually know what the fuck you're talking about before you open your dumb fucking mouth.

>>718205656
Fallout 1 and 2 were like that. You didn't know what the speech checks were and sometimes they failed.