Thread 718263382

Is Umineko good?

if you're 16 and never picked up a book in your life before
then yeah

>>718263382 (OP)
No, trannyshit is never good.

Yes but only episodes 1-4, rest are shit and the VNs were originally written to end at episode 4

>>718263382 (OP)
>demaster

Sure, I especially like the big titty aisloppa of it they make on /trash/

>>718263382 (OP)
dunno
ive busted so many nuts to its porn but ive never read it

>>718263382 (OP)
It has some great characters and cool concepts, plus a very good OST.
The downside is it has some of the worst prose in a published work I've ever seen and the ending sucks.

>>718263382 (OP)
nah

>>718263481
99% of books suck

>>718263382 (OP)
It's a genuine masterpiece and the most impressive piece of fiction ever written.

>>718263382 (OP)
I did not really care for it.
I was really annoyed but the stupidity of male characters in this game. Especially Krauss

>>718263481
books are for before technology existed

Did Hamsterson get filtered yet

>>718264906
>talking shit about Krauss

>>718263382 (OP)
I've never played these have no idea what it's about but I've seen the faces plenty and have to say this totally removes all the sovl the originals had. totally changes the character in my eyes, who in the original looks like someone who is a grown up kusogaki that never got corrected

>>718263481
FPBP

It's very good, but if you're a brainlet, you won't like it. You'll read through it, maybe like a few things about it, then hit a point where you won't understand 90% of what's going on, and then you'll look up a bunch of info on the wiki and say "this is pretentious bullshit and I hate it".

>>718265569
PS3 Beato is better at LARPing as the thousand year old witch. OG Beato is clearly just a mentally stunted teenager. It works both ways.

>better ship than canon
what say you, anon-san?

>>718263382 (OP)
no.
dont bother reading it
Shannon and Kanon is Beatrice.

>>718263382 (OP)
I think the author writes characters very well, and it's easy to get caught up in their arcs. The plot itself seems to be secondary to what he really likes, which is playing with his dolls in his worlds. Which again, he does very well.

>>718263382 (OP)
Drop it after episode 1 and yeah.

>>718263382 (OP)
no?
i read first 5 chapters, each of them 10 hours long
but story is smeared like shit on the ass, there are like 1 hour or story in 10 hours of empty reading.

>>718263382 (OP)
Holy shit, Joseph Anderson gave it a 10/10.
If you told me this would be the game that won the weebs gambit before I would have laughed.

>>718263382 (OP)
When it's good it's really good but it has a bunch of embarrassing moments. For a doujin work written in 4 years by one guy I think it's very impressive overall. Give it a read.

>>718267169
It's really impressive how fast he wrote it. It shows at times, but it's still crazy.

Umineko is still an unsolved game.

We have to find part 2 of visual novels

>>718267015
Based. Umineko is definitely a 10/10 story. The fact that it's still being passionately discussed 15 years later already proves that it's a timeless masterpiece.

What causes people to completely ignore the mystery or even consider the answers to the mystery? Sure, there's a lot more to it than that but fucking hell... If you actually consider for a second how they're constructed and executed you'd be disgusted but instead you continuously have people ignore it. Even Joe, who seemingly got the answer to the mystery relatively fast, failed to apply said answers to the mystery.
I guess the story does a good job that most people don't care or forget about the answers?

>>718263382 (OP)
It has a cool concept but kinda goes to shit in the 2nd half. Also way too bloated.

>>718267808
The answers to the game boards just raise ridiculous questions about every character's moral compass and basic intelligence. It's better to sweep them under the rug and say "Beatrice just made a lot of dumb assumptions that it would all go off without a hitch."

>>718267015
he's just pandering to his internet gf and fanbase

>>718263382 (OP)
It’s pretty good, but it’s very overrated by people like >>718263481

>>718268102
1000% this, I didn't follow most of this playthrough but it's hilarious how much shit he took issue in previous anime games while consistently giving Umineko a pass on everything he found "cringe"

>>718267968
You're right but I do have issues with that:
1)By actually remembering about past mysteries and inputting solutions as you go you engage with that but you end up getting mocked and ridiculed by the writer, a writer who is aware of the flaws in the mystery. I'm basically being punished and getting a lesser experience by actually trying to engage with what started as a mystery story.
2)It's just stories for Ange or for people to remember the family members; why did there need to be overelaborate mystery to it? Wouldn't you want to give conclusion to the reader and explain motives? Well, I guess that was a real issue with Umineko as a whole given that the manga was required to give the reader that emotional/character climax and resolution.

>>718266661
Erika sexo

>>718268208
I think having his gf give him direction and help him process things or answer the smaller things really helped with his experience. Like he could ask if a long scene goes on much longer or the sort. I know having someone there to guide me or to subtly shift the direction of my thinking would have been really helpful for my reading.

>>718268657
As you said, Ryukishi lost the plot (literally) towards the end, and needed Natsumi Kei's help to tie all of the ideas and purpose back together into a coherent conclusion.

>>718263382 (OP)
You're only asking because joseph anderson is playing it. Which is valid, streamers are real people and unironically play more games than /v/ does, but you're not actually interested in Umineko or going to play it yourself.

>>718268102
>>718268863
At the end of they day he probably ended up enjoying it even though he would have dropped it by episode 3 without Mouse. Both things can be true it's fine to get invested in something because of someone you're close with.

>>718267015
one piece status?

>>718263382 (OP)
meh

>>718268885
>Ryukishi lost the plot (literally) towards the end
That's not it, that's just the WTC way: interesting and complex mystery to hook readers in for questions arc and then it gets forgot about, with it not mattering to the overall story by answers arc. What he is trying to tell in the answers arc is sound but it was obvious that the mystery fans had gotten under his skin.

>>718269087
He was also getting a lot of viewers for streaming it.
>he would have dropped it by episode 3 without Mouse
Did he struggle with Chapter 3?

>>718268974
>vn
>gameplay

>>718269965
lol. i take it you never played BlazBlue or Baldr Sky

>>718265048
he finished it today

>Our family was neither good nor evil, Ange
>Grandfather that raped his own daughter and forced her to have a rape baby
>Aunt that murdered an innocent servant while trying to kill an infant
>Kyrie
>Kyrie and Rudolph
>An aunt that abused her child and abandoned her to go fuck a man

>>718268102
>>718268208
He literally cried during the final scene today. Joe genuinely loves Umineko.

>>718270330
least evil wealthy family

>>718263382 (OP)
R07's stuff is very hit or miss for me. Umineko just didn't click with me, I ended up liking Higurashi despite it's issues, and Ciconia is lying dead in a ditch so I never bothered with it.
Some of his side works were pretty good, others I had no interest in. I've soured on him after several retarded decisions in the last 5 or so years

>>718268102
His streams and community will never recover from him publicly edating his discord mod. He was always kind of weirdly close to his mod team/certain members of his discord server but the vibes are super fucked now, and it could only change if he publicly breaks up with her too which will cause a whole slew of bullshit itself.

>>718270478
Yeah and he wouldn't have read more than 20 hours if not for his new discord gf holding his hand along the way and the umitroon fanbase being drawn to his channel en masse. Him crying doesn't invalidate that.

>>718270330
>Anon thinks the older brother should tell Ange the truth of what actually happened, which would cause her to kill herself

>>718270330
What a biased fuck. On a continuum those are very few "evil" events. The probably did some good, too. But they were largely neutral. Taking the worst of people and trying to say they're bad or evil...baka.
>An aunt that abused her child and abandoned her to go fuck a man
The retard child deserved the abuse for being such an annoying retard. The man Rosa slept with is undeniably the smarted character to appear in Umineko.

>>718270478
nu joe viewers are so fucking parasocial and weird. how do you type something like this and not physically wince when re-reading it

>>718270330
I think in one interview right after Twilight of the Golden Witch came out, Ryukishi implied that Kinzo was just misunderstood by history's lies. Genuine lol when I read that. Even the interviewer was awkwardly like "huh, ok..." in the way Japanese people express that.

>>718270330
you forgot Beatrice dating all of her cousins and planning to kill her family because Battler forgot a promise he made when he was like 12

I am literally swhakign and crying that you stated the objective fact that Joe cried during hte stream. you are sick you are unwuell

uh oh melty

>>718270661
if she can't cope with the truth she probably should kill herself desu

>>718270680
rape, murder, and child abuse sound pretty bad to me

>>718270330
and Krauss, who did nothing wrong

>>718270687
I think most of those people are probably from /v/. Saying shit like "his discord gf" as if that is somehow derogatory. You mean his girlfriend that he happened to meet on discord ? So fucking what people meet in all sorts of ways. Insane parasocial bullshit.

it's not a true it's a lie my streamer would never cry stop telling lies about him this siddn't happen you aprasocial creep

>>718270526
Yeah, I get it. None of the answers to the mysteries landed in either Higurashi nor Umineko but at least Chapters 1, 2 and 5 (I like to consider them as 1 self-contained story) is absolutely amazing. I just love how tense it all is, and how I was a little disappointed with the answers to chapter 2 only for chapter 5 to happen. The music and setting was also just perfect. I look forward to see how Silent Hill Furude turns out.

>>718263382 (OP)
only if you want to play as a gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay protagonist

>>718270998
yeah man they're the weird parasocial ones, not the 40 year old with like four kids who divorced his wife and immediately started playing ff14 and reading anime visual novels with his discord kitten

>>718270661
>Your mother was a murderer and I spaghetti'd my brain. I'm sorry, Ange.
Nope. Time to leave her to the psycho aunt who plans to nuggetize her.

I can't believe there are people from /v/ in here... fucking diisgusting
go back where you came anonymous freaks

>>718270952
Anon, they lived mostly peaceful lives so you can't hold a single lapse of judgement over them forever. Why aren't you considering all the good they did to balance that out? You sound like a hater to me.

this dude is actually schizophrenic kek

>>718263382 (OP)
its good but also really overrated

>>718270680
>my retard child makes an annoying sound when I am being abusive, clearly escalating to beating the shit out of her will help
Both you and Rosa are retarded.

>>718270680
I'm sorry your parents beat you, anon.

>>718271081
I didn't even know he played FF14 because I dont religiously follow his every stream. But what he does offstream and the reasons for it are none of my or anybodies business. You have no evidence that he initiated the divorce, and even if he did, again, it is none of anyones fucking business I won't engage with the topic further than this post.

>>718271192
I do believe that you can atone for mistakes, but the more heinous the act, the higher the bar to clear. I'm hesitant to say that most of the cast's biggest mistakes would've been redeemed in my eyes.

Rosatrice would save Umineko

I am really curious how R07 handled the new Silent Hill. It's the first time he's ever written an actual AAA video game.
He's good at writing horror so I have high expectations.

>>718270768
Yeah, trying to justify a father raping and impregnating his child is crazy. He also talked about how it wasn't all rape and that Beato2 wasn't able to understand her father's feelings. This coming from a guy that was supposedly a social worker.

>>718271012
>I look forward to see how Silent Hill Furude turns out.
Haven't really been following it, but of the setting at least piqued my interest, of course.

>>718270995
It's funny how Krauss looked the most suspicious at first and then turned out to be maybe the only Ushiromiya adult who wasn't deranged.

>>718270995
Being a normie that loves your wife and child, that isn't cheating or trying to fuck someone over, is the greatest offense that you can do in that family.

>>718271509
>Yeah, trying to justify a father raping and impregnating his child is crazy.
He never did that. Nice bait though, made me reply.

>>718271595
I only watched the first two umineko streams but Krauss did strike me as being different from the others somehow. Nice to know there may have been a reason.

>>718271595
>>718271597
Krauss abused his siblings and massively contributed in making them worse people. He got better as he got older, but he inflicted a lot of damage in the past.
Also, he embezzled Kinzo's money.

>>718271612
then who is Yasu's dad? the butler?

>>718271379
>You have no evidence that he initiated the divorce,
I would even go so far as to say it was likely the other way around, since he said the reason for them falling out of love is the same mystery reason for why the W3 video is taking longer to come out than most of his Discord tranny mods.
He's probably fucked in the head in some way. Maybe he randomly passes out and folds origami. Or the town (Moncton) made him stupid.

>>718271247
I never said beating her was the best solution (abortion best with orphaning second best) but I hated Maria so much that I could only cheer when she got beat. The noises she makes is annoying, that she is apparently precocious and so knowledgeable about magic is obnoxious, and the fact that she's such a retard that she gets trick to go along with the murders/mystery is also annoying. But no, I'm meant to feel sad that she gets beat? I'm meant to hate Rosa for disciplining her daughter?

>>718271281
>>718271410
I'm being facetious but at the same time, that would be how Eva would think about her family so her point about not good or evil is valid.

>>718271710
Learn how to read, retard.

>>718270330
W-Without love it cannot be seen! Just believe the lies chud!

>>718270995
Krauss also did nothing right

>>718271710
>Lion is stillborn
>Genji and Kumasawa cover it up and bring in a random baby from the orphanage to trick Kinzo
That would've been a sick last second twist. All of the agonizing over blood relations rendered pointless.

>>718271486
Hinako a cute

>>718271710
She wasn't Kinzo's daughter. She was the reincarnation of the witch Beatrice, and it wasn't rape because she loved him and consented.

>>718271703
>embezzled Kinzo's money
Sure, and he also concealed his death. He's hardly completely innocent, but still a lot better than his siblings.

>>718272107
without love it cannot be seen...

Someone tell me I just misunderstood episode 8's message and explain what it was trying to say.
I cannot fathom how "fantasy and delusion is good if it helps you cope actually" is a good message in any capacity, and that thousands of umi fans agree with that.
Also still can't understand how anyone is sympathetic to Beatrice after all these years, she's a deranged cunt. And Battler falling in love with her is even weirder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENL0nPskSao

it has a good OST but its way too fucking long for what it is

>>718271912
he was nice

>>718272219
If your family consist of a bunch of deranged assholes, and your own mother planned on killing you, I feel you've earned the right to believe whatever it takes to keep you from eating a bullet sandwich.

>>718272219
No, you got it right, but will be called a loveless goat for putting it in those terms and not agreeing with it.

>>718272219
Only the most damaged people take the message 100% at face value and worship it. You can ignore it. As for Beatrice, I can fix her. Yes, her. I fixed her.

>>718272219
Let me ask you this, speedreader: Your whole family has been dead for 12 years and the public has portrayed them (and you) as demons with no redeeming qualities. Would you rather keep agreeing with the public that shits on your family and be obsessed with cursing them for the rest of your life or would you rather remember the positive moments you had with them in your short childhood and try living a fulfilling life without (literally) killing yourself over things that happened in the past and that you couldn't change anyway?

>>718272219
Beato literally did nothing wrong.

>>718272219
You pretty much got it. Escapism only gets you so far. I guess in the context of an infamous incident that remains a mystery the best thing you can do is settle on some made up answer to help you sleep at night. The trick ending is also superior because she takes control of her life. I know just how bad escapism can be, but in the moment, it's comforting and then keeping the escapism becomes addicting.

>>718272640
Beato did quite a bit wrong, but in her situation, I'd probably do mostly the same thing.

>>718272107
>child
>consented
You can only choose one, Kinzo.

>>718272640
she led george on

>>718272219
>I cannot fathom how "fantasy and delusion is good if it helps you cope actually" is a good message in any capacity,
I can understand that.
What is completely retarded, however, is the message that no one "outside the catbox" has a right to speculate about what happened. Why the hell not? Should historians never write books about past events because the truth might be traumatic?

magic is real btw

>>718272784
This

>>718272578
I would rather accept things as they are and move on, rather than pretend my only two options are delusion or suicide.

>>718272578
No, I would accept that a lot of my family sucked (especially after seeing the literal truth of what happened as Bernkastel shows it) and that the public is stupid for blaming me too. I would then try to find a new family (or friends) of my own.
I do not need rose tinted glasses where I pretend these real people who existed were actually completely different people, like the fucking ridiculous happy grandpa Kinzo in episode 8.
Every time I've seen a fan defend this they present this weird dichotomy of "either accept delusion or you will be miserable". No, that's not the case, you can move on in healthier ways, Ange is still very young with a long life ahead of her.

>>718272787
>ignoring the context of the setting
It's not about historians, it's about True Crime weirdos who exploit a tragic incident because it's their hobby.

>>718272578
Except that's a false dichotomy. You can try and life a fulfilling life whilst also accepting or agreeing that your family were monsters. Trying to find answers to the mystery only creates agony. Closure is the name of the game and all escapism does is temporarily solve the problem. She'll likely be confronted with people that knew her family that will challenge the positive memories formed about her family which will cause everything to resurface again.

>>718263382 (OP)
It's good but extremely overrated and overlong. Also is this thread really like 50% people talking about this VN because an eceleb streamed it? Fuck I hate zoomers.

get a load of THIS, anons

>>718273163
>Realistic cellulite
I respect your game, but I'll pass

>>718268102
So he's gonna read Higurashi all the way through next? Great

>>718273163
My incest-made uncle/cousin can't be this hot

>>718272784
nobody would've died if George just fucked her like a boyfriend should

>>718263382 (OP)
Yes but it overstays it's welcome so hard. There's so much bullshit you have to get through for the "magic murder detective" stuff that's actually enjoyable and just when that ball gets rolling a new plot aspect will bring it to a screeching halt for several chapters. I would absolutely adore a refined Umineko that's only Battler and Beatrice doing their showdown murder mystery solving. Everything else is so fucking boring compared to that. It's like you get one bite of the best cake you ever tasted and then you have to eat 10 full cakes of shit until you're allowed another bite of the good cake.

>>718273276
no that one is problematic

>>718273154
>Also is this thread really like 50% people talking about this VN because an eceleb streamed it? Fuck I hate zoomers
sadly yes. Every Umineko thread for the last month is just /v/ reacting to someone streaming Umineko

>>718272787
It's a critique of the readers that care about the mystery element to this story. Funny how he spends significantly more time bitching and creating caricatures of said fans than actually giving readers and the characters themselves the answers to said mystery. The theme of the story is caring about the whydunnit, somehow caring about the howdunnit or the whodunnit is unacceptable and must be goat behaviour. Basically using that logic to cover the very poor answers.

>>718267015
I never would have thought that someone like him would rate Umineko a 10 out of 10.
Didn't he hate Silent Hill 2 because of the unreliable narration?

>>718263382 (OP)
Yes its pure kino.
>>718263481
>durrrrr what about books tho!!??
Sub 60 iq

>>718273536
He didn't have love then

>>718272736
See the Trick ending is obviously the one I agree with most, but I hate that it's treated as the obviously "bad" ending, with all the fanfare given to the dogshit Magic ending. The way Ryukishi presents all these unhealthy coping mechanisms as something positive makes episode 8 feel genuinely vile to me.

>>718273536
yeah but he wasn't encouraged to play SH2 because of his internet gf so he hated it

>>718273510
>creating caricatures of said fans
The dialogue from the goats are literally things his actual readers said. He was mocking them because some of them were retarded and he's a bit of a troll. Imagine taking banter like that personally.

>>718273536
We got a brief glimpse of what this dude acts like when he reads a beloved story and doesn't nitpick it like a disingenuous contrarian, but it came at the cost of his community being ultra cancerous. Hopefully the umineko faggotry peters off and the streams can go back to being comfy but it's probably too late now.

>>718273578
I like to imagine that after Ange gives over control of the company to Okonogi she gets in the car with one of his men and drives her off to the montains where she is killed because she is of no further use to Okonogi. The X years later is just her final moments of her life as she lays dying.

>>718272219
escapism can be a useful tool if you're simply not ready to face a difficult truth yet. I think that's fine as long as the end goal is to eventually accept it and move on.
Whether or not umineko pushes it as a temporary thing or promotes "nah, just keep coping" is a different story.

>>718273452
Rika and Satoko continue putting in the hard work to keep ecelebs and other troons away from Higurashi. Truly the superior Ryukishi work.

>>718263382 (OP)
You'll either love it or hate it. It's 100 hours long too, enjoy!

>>718273812
>The dialogue from the goats are literally things his actual readers said. He was mocking them because some of them were retarded
Yet he paints with a broad brush, meaning that he isn't only making fun of the retards. I don't know how that can be the takeaway given that he also uses Erika and constatly takes jabs at those kind of readers with the likes of Featherine. Just bants, though XDDD

>>718272578
What if someone lovechadded read up to Episode 8 thinking magic was 100% real

>>718273972
don't forget Mion's dick jokes and threat to toss Rika into the red light district. Also Irie

>>718274157
Magic actually IS real in Umineko's universe. Sayo was abducted from the afterlife by Lambdadelta.

>>718266661
FACT

>>718272219
read the manga

>>718270680
lol

>>718273950
>I think [escapism] fine as long as the end goal is to eventually accept it and move on.
That's not really how it works. If you use escapism, it's not something you ever want to deal with. So either you have someone/thing that makes you confront it to overcome the problem, or you're in a situation where escapism can no longer continue and have to face the problem. Given that avoidant behaviour is a response learned to a stressor, you'd never choose to address the behaviour if continued escapism is a possibility.

>>718263382 (OP)
Umineko and Higurashi both do something really impressive, which is wrap up a fucking retarded ending in a very emotionally satisfying package after the reader spent such a long time with his stories that they will generally enjoy the ending in the moment even if they go on to be more critical of it upon reflection. Ryukishi is a super talented writer in that regard and I'm not being ironic. I teared up multiple times when reading Umineko, including the ending, but I actually can't stand how stupid it is now.

>>718274442
Does it show Ange actually coming to terms with reality eventually or does it keep the same "just pretend lmao" idea?

>>718274871
You're just too easily manipulated by good music and voice acting. I never reacted emotionally to Umi's ending at all other than listening to the credits song on its own, episode 8 is the lowest point of the experience by far.

>>718274903
She fully recognizes reality, but still chooses a future where she can be happy. It's much better handled.

>>718274903
it has actually the true ending and final conclusion, no kidding

>>718275190
>>718275214
Well, it's been nearly 10 years since I read Umineko and I still feel no desire to ever reread with how bloated it is, so if I ever wanna re-experience it in some form I guess I'll go with the manga then.

>>718274871
It's probably because you're wrapping up a long journey, which I assume you at least somewhat liked if you finished a long vn like Higu or Umi. Like Matsuribayashi having the main enemy force of higurashi lose to a mountain of home alone traps was stupid, but I still found the ending satisfying despite how the chapter fell short in several ways.

>>718274871
I honestly didn't really care for the overall stories, the character writing/interactions are just really really good
R07 is an expert at making likeable characters

if magic is real does that mean Beatrice was a real girl?

>>718275304
you really just need to read the final chapter

>>718272219
its message is appealing if you believe men can become women

>>718275521
Always was. Don't let the troons tell you otherwise

>>718273578
It also feels thematically inconsistent because magic is portrayed as an unhealthy coping mechanism in the first four episodes.
>Maria's "magic" is coping with her abusive mother through imaginary friends, making her even more dysfunctional and bullied by the kids in her class
>Ange basically inherits Maria's coping mechanisms and imaginary friends and runs from reality, also fantasizing about killing her classmates with magic
>Eva turning into a witch is the resurfacing of the massive chip on her shoulder she had as a kid, when she devolves into a sadistic psycho who brutally kills her family
>Yasu as Beatrice just plots mass murder and slaughters the Ushiromiya family across multiple episodes

is there legitimately a reason to play the visual novel over the manga? I understand people like the voice acting, but it also seems like people think the manga does quite a few things better and is better paced

I have convinced myself to do one or the other this year, but still haven't really decided which. a little pissed I got spoilered by some anon with the [spoilers]I AM A WOMAN[/spoilers] scene on the front page a few months ago

>>718275987
Yes, the music. I didn't even have voice acting but the music is excellent.

>>718275718
Yeah it would not surprise me if the intention at first was to portray escapism as a temporary help that should not be abused, only for Ryukishi to go all in on it in Chiru after the death of his friend or whatever. At least that's the feeling I always got but man did ep 8 suck ass.

>>718275987
Treat the manga like Umineko 1.5. Don't skip the VN, even when it has shitty moments.

>>718275987
the music is the best part

>>718275987
The music is god tier. I can't think of a single VN or game with a better soundtrack than Umineko.

>>718276385
If you truly think this, then you need to play more games. I can think of many which are better than Umineko’s

Umineko is the ultimate filter for most of our modern society individuals.
A society of rampant bad faith, divine moral justice, faith mocking, gossiping and non existent truths turned into facts.
No wonder places like reddit and 4chan would get filtered the most.

I love it when female artists draw anime girl fanservice.

>>718273163
her rage bait are massive

>>718276462
>I can think of many which are better than Umineko’s
Name three

>>718276554
Anon, when the plot hinges on "this guy kept his daughter captive for 20 years and produced a rape baby with her that would go on to slaughter everyone," it actually is true. It's not moral posturing.

>>718276576
>ange goes commando while wearing a short skirt
slut

>>718276554
4chan was ground zero for EN Umineko discussion thoughbeit.

So at the end Battler forgetting everything about himself to point that it causes him to become crippled if he remembers is literally magic right? Because that feels very bs desu

>>718277119
Aurora/Ikuko is a literal evil witch. She is the true main villain, and kept Battler away from Ange.

There are no answers. It's a fantasy story, not a mystery.

I got so attached to the characters already in Episode 1, that the magic cast introduced Episode 2 onwards was a pain in the ass for me. I wanted to see the family more in depth, but NOOO Ryukishi really had to give the 7 sins girls and the rest a bigger focus when they aren't even real.

>>718276737
Chrono Cross
Final Fantasy 9
Panzer Dragoon Orta

Post the image, you know the one.

>>718277459
This one?

>>718272219
Just look how people defend the Maelle ending in E33.

>>718263382 (OP)
Yes and anyone who says otherwise is just being a contrarian for the sake of it.

>>718263382 (OP)
It's good but it tricks people into thinking they're reading a mystery novel. That is why after EP1 tea parties I just went with the flow with my brain half-turned off, and EPs 4-8 were a full-on fever dream I barely remember.

>>718266661
why is erika so perfect, anons

I hate Umineko with all of my soul

holy meirabroken

>>718277638
It is really funny to compare Umi's endings to E33's. While in E33 I still feel the devs presented escapism in a negative light and were nudging you to Verso ending, they treated both opinions with respect and seriousness.
Meanwhile in Umineko, it's "either you love escpaism or you get this gay short fake ending where Ange becomes a jaded cunt, enjoy."

>>718275987
>believes contextless shitpost meme pretending to be a spoiler
no wonder you'd rather read something that gives you its themes and answers bluntly, come on
it's like going "do I watch the thing or do I read the fanfiction someone made that gives it a conclusive ending"

>>718277119
>Battler and Sayo take a boat off of Rokkenjima after Battler's parents massacred everyone and Eva revenge killed them
>Sayo decides to kill herself by drowning using a gold ingot she ties to her body since she can't deal with the fact that she caused the bloodbath and is probably still hung up over the incest
>Battler chases Sayo into the sea because he loves her, however Sayo still drowns and Battler resurfaces on the mainland, most likely suffering some form of brain damage due to being oxygen deprived for so long before resurfacing
>Either he is immediately found by Ikuko on a highway after being hit by another car or he wanders for a bit and is then found by Ikuko after being hit by a car
>Ikuko pays off a doctor to look after him off the record, at this point "Battler" is effectively dead and he starts living as Tohya
Brain damage is handwaving it so they don't have to fully explain something in the last episode, but apparently identity death due to brain damage is a possibility so it isn't necessarily real magic. Cognitive disorders are weird.
What I find weird are people who think Ikuko is Sayo.

>>718278161
and joe is gonna hate E33's ending even though Umineko's made him cry

>>718263784
post

>>718278261
That's a given yeah he hates anything without her stamp of approval now.

>>718278241
Ikuko = Sayo is just a fun super fucked up theory. It belongs more in the realm of fanfiction than canon. Battler trapped with this disguised monster like he's in the book Misery is a cool idea.

>>718278358
tbf she said E33 was her goty, i think he's just retarded and ironically the type of low grade weeb midwit that he and his community constantly shit on

>>718278161
Umineko is a well written and soulful story while E33 is slop made by hacks.

>>718278358
she likes e33 though

>>718278241
Sometimes when I read summaries of an answer arc episode I think about how people unironically believe the game's mystery is solvable by the end of episode 3 or 4.

>>718278241
>but apparently identity death due to brain damage is a possibility so it isn't necessarily real magic.
Right, I forgot about the car accident. And alright, I dont know anything about mental disorders, so if its actually possible, good enough for me.

>>718278545
Depends what you mean by "the mystery". Identifying the killer and motivations I think is solvable (personally I was close to it but dismissed it as feeling too cliché); solving the specific murder methods I find must mathematically be possible but only insane lunatics would go in such flights of fancy that they could do so and it's almost just being lucky at this point. "I imagined this insane theory- oh I was right"

>>718278507
I'll give you soulful, "well written" I'm more mixed on. It has its moments but when it's bad it's real bad. E33 was way better.

>>718278513
>>718278483
Oh, so that's why he insists it's somehow an 8/10 despite hating on the story constantly and clearly not being invested. Still don't think he'll like the ending much though since he's caught up on the midwit debate of "are they REAL or ChatGPT people??" as if that's remotely interesting.

>>718278261
he's just stubbornly refusing to accept anyone from the canvas as sentient for whatever reason

>>718278698
he's not even caught up in the debate, he thinks the game textually purports that the people aren't sentient therefore nothing really matters. the moral dilemma will be lost on him and he doesn't really seem to like or care about the dessendres so nothing about the ending will land for him. 8/10 btw because he's afraid of pissing off fans any more than he already has

I think Rosa actually survived Rokkenjima

>>718278698
>E33 was way better.
You're either retarded or baiting. Either way, you should kill yourself.

>>718278667
Answering "who is Beatrice" is definitely possible, episode 3 is a huge hint and then episode 4 I think further solidifies the theory. In order to figure out how all of the murders up to that point happened, it just depends on if you're able to figure out that the servants are all in on it which you can then use with the knowledge that any scene up to that point without Battler in it isn't necessarily reliable to determine that most of them come down to "the killer just killed them and everyone involved in it is lying to make a closed room."

>>718278959
calm down joe mouse isn't here to supervise your opinions on video games

>>718278241
>Battler and Sayo take a boat off of Rokkenjima after Battler's parents massacred everyone and Eva revenge killed them
I take issue with your wording because Eva shot Natsuhi first and it definitely wasn't a coincidence that Hideyoshi then also "accidentally" shot Krauss right after. The two of them were absolutely planning on doing the exact same thing Kyrie and Rudolf did if they hadn't been beaten to the punch.

Ikuko keeping Battler locked away is a metaphor for Joe being forced to play weebshit by his 'cord mod gf or however the Angeburger is flipped

>>718279065
Damn, he truly is Joettler.

>>718279059
I personally refuse to believe that Eva would ever just kill her nieces and nephews in cold blood for money.

>>718278959
Umifans when someone doesn't agree to choke on tranny cock for 30 hours a week

>>718278924
That she did, and later she sought out Battler to make Maria 2

test

>>718279191
Considering her treatment of Ange, who was completely innocent, I have no trouble believing it.

I believe that George would eat his cousins and aunts if he was really hungry.

>>718279494
fat fuck

I can fix her

>>718279059
In terms of how good of a person the Ushiromiya adults are it's Eva > Krauss > Rosa > Rudolf. I do agree with the other anon that Eva wouldn't stoop to murdering the kids, and in the tea party she and Hideyoshi first start trying to think of how they can cover up the murders and get everyone out. It's only when Rosa escalates things that it seems like Eva is going to continue killing, but Kyrie cuts them off.

>>718279585
Maria actually is a ghost controlled by Beatrice, as Rosa fed her to George on the ferry. The stuff hidden in obscure interviews.

>>718279713
>Eva above Krauss

>>718279851
Krauss' heavy abuse of his siblings is literally why everything started.

>>718279895
I thought Kinzo fucking his daughterwife and making an incest baby is how everything started

Everything in Umineko happened because of Hitler

>>718279895
Everything starts with Kinzo. Everything. Except the Voyager Witches and Featherine I guess but basically everything about Rokkenjima.
>>718280012
Kinzo killing the Italians to take their gold is how everything started.

>>718279713
Not a chance. Eva's treatment of Ange is as bad if not worse than Rosa's treatment of Maria. Krauss being a bit of an ass as a child doesn't even approach that.

>>718279678
how

>>718280097
Technically it's Archduke Ferdinand getting shot

>>718280012
Genji never had to bring Yasu back to the island. I think he had something in mind.

>>718280097
Truly all a comedy of errors. Gold would have stayed in Italy had the Grand Council of Fascism not vote Mussolini out
Speaking of, it got me wondering, how does the average Japanese man view WW2? Umineko talks about the Salo Republic like its based to have kept fighting on, but I guess it was from Kinzo's perspective, so not sure how much of that is the authors actual way of seeing things

>>718280356
That's going a bit far. I would say the Marco Polo Bridge Incident instead.

>>718280217
Are you forgetting that he helped cover up Kinzo's death for several years to delay the inheritance? Announcing his death would have prevented the entire thing because either Sayo would show that she solved the epitaph and is the rightful heir, or Sayo would have kept quiet and the siblings would proceeded with distributing the inheritance.

>oops, we just shot two of our rivals accidentally
>ignore the convenient timing of that
>yep, two people shot dead one right after the other, both total accidents
>haha, we're totally not planning on shooting the rest of you once you're distracted and we can reload, relax

>>718280531
Krauss needed time to get his moon tourism off the ground

>>718280517
Based on my completely 2nd hand understanding through consuming tons of japanese media: japs generally do not see themselves as the "bad guys" in WW2, just people fighting for their country who lost. War crime denial is pretty common even among otaku media authors.

>>718280562
This is the actual reason Eva never told Ange the truth. She shot Natsuhi in a fit of hate and rage. There was no accident.

>>718280531
Please. You're dreaming up scenarios to dump the blame for everything on Krauss. There's no reason to believe things would have gone perfectly if the old rapist's death had been revealed. He is to blame for concealing that and embezzlement, both of which are not nearly as bad as what the other siblings did.

>>718278241
Wait a minute. Where was it suggested that Sayo survived getting shot in the vault? Is that to explain how Battler knew how to escape with the boat?

Also I thought I remembered Bern saying the Kyrie massacre theory wasn't the real account.

>>718280531
Krauss's real crime is not realizing two of the servants are the same person. Extra less forgivable considering his daughter constantly interacted with and befriended them. You would think he would keep a paranoid eye on Jessica least any of the servants (or Jessica) try to do something untoward

>>718280982
>Also I thought I remembered Bern saying the Kyrie massacre theory wasn't the real account.
Did she say that in red though? I cant remember

>>718280562
Why wasn't this transparent

>>718281245
Krauss hardly cared about his family. Natsuhi was in charge of the servants, and her constant migraines didn't help her identify men and women. Jessica was the #1 question mark, but that's up in the air.

>>718280982
Yes, it does involve Kyrie somehow not realizing that she failed to shoot both Eva and Sayo dead, but it is the truth. Battler was never killed in the tea party, so presumably Sayo ran out of the vault after regaining consciousness, found Battler, and explained the situation, leading to them running away together. The manga confirms it as well by showing it in Eva's diary which is confirmed to have the truth of what happened. Ignoring the manga if you don't want to accept it as the official answer, Bern's red truth of "That this is all truth... isn't necessarily so" does leave some wiggle room but it doesn't outright deny that the tea party isn't what happened, which works for Bern because she still needs to use Ange and wants her to cooperate. We also have to take into account that Eva refused to tell Ange about it, and whatever information was in her diary was enough to make Ange attempt suicide. Lastly, if you treat Umineko as a mystery, that means there has to be an answer you can get from the text since it is one of the questions the game spends a lot of time on. The episode 7 tea party is the only game that lines up with the world of 1986, episode 3 can't work because Battler died, and every other episode is out because Eva dies.

>>718280893
shut up Natsuhi
you aren't a real Ushiromiya

I.am one of the few that can sympathize with Rosa by having an absurdly mentality disabled sibling. What she did was wrong, but I can understand what drove her into such a position, especially as a single mom

>>718271595
Krauss was instrumental in creating these monsters that we call the ushimoriya family. Not only did the other kids also need the money but they completely refused to relent due to how much they despised Krauss due to his abuse

>>718263382 (OP)
>Is Umineko good?
It makes no sense

It's pretty good. The western fandom, including on 4chan, has been utterly abysmal for the past 5 or so years.

>>718263382 (OP)
For me? yes

>>718267015
Who the fuck is this? And why do you talk about him in every umineko thread? I watch reactions too for like hype or emotional moments in anime but that's not the same as watching a dude talk about a 70 hour novel like what's the point are you guys learning something from him like, chatting with someone once in a while as they read a mystery VN sure but following a streamer and caring about his opinion, discussing his opinion, like what the actual fuck and now he's in every thread. Why? Is he the new PewDiePie or something? Or are his fans just shilling him here nonstop. This is mental

>>718263382 (OP)
That's a man

>>718284091
>I watch reactions too for like hype or emotional moments in anime
It IS the same. People don't have friends any more so they have surrogate streamer "friends" that allow them to pretend. Whether it's short form or long form, it's all reaction content meant to simulate friendship either way.

>>718263382 (OP)
It's a mixed bag. I really love the character writing, but the pacing of the story felt extremely tedious. The main twist is also pretty divisive.
20/10 OST though.

I was about to play it, but I heard they don't *actually* give an explanation to how the murders happened. Is it obvious enough to infer what happened or is there still a decent amount of guess work you have to do?

>>718284885
There is a very flowery explanation in the VN. If you understand the rules you can use those as a basis to figure out the murders you haven't personally figured out at that point. The manga gives an actual explanation for every murder.

>>718263382 (OP)
No, it's not a video game either.

>>718284885
You are given hints as to how some of the events of the game happened or if they even happened in the first place, and the main twist is a pretty major hint that explains a lot, but you'd still have to deduce most of the stuff yourself.
Manga adaptation straight up gives you the explanation, as far as I know.

>>718275319
My nigga there maybe one remotely likeable character in the whole VN. Jessica is the only character who isn't either irredeemably awful, annoying as hell, or both.

>>718263382 (OP)
naw
just like higurashi it's extremely good in the beginning but is a terrible mess by the end
higurashi was more disappointing though because it as 10/10 kino up until the rooftop swordfight out of fucking nowhere

>>718270526
vn devs never seem to know how to finish something
both literally like with ciconia and figuratively like with higurashi's absolutely shit ending after the previous entire VN worked as a fantastic thriller and horror game

>>718271081
oh my God I forgot about that
what a pathetic faggot

>>718272219
Who said that clinging onto fantasy and delusion are good? The game specifically trashes everyone who clung onto that and Ange was no exception because her so-called 'truth' was the delusion that Eva was the culprit, and at the end Ange acknowledges that her family might be dead and they did horrible things but they were just people in the end.

>>718286407
I like this interpretation but it feels too kind, when all of episode 8 is Battler making a bullshit happy version of the family as a fantasy for Ange to be immersed in. It REALLY seemed to want me to think that that was a good thing, despite earlier episodes (pre-Chiru) contradicting it.

Umineko is good the same way that Sanderson books are good. They're fucking phenomenal and groundbreaking if you're just getting into the respective genres but you'll soon realize they're pure slop once you actually read good vns/books.

>>718286884
By "genre" here do you mean murder mysteries or VNs in general?

>>718286934
VNs in a broader sense.

>>718286827
What Battler wanted to show (Granted, I don't exactly agree with him either) was that what you remember isn't necessarily the truth and even less so when it's told from the perspective of someone who doesn't care the way you do. Eva is exactly that for Ange because she forgot that her aunt genuinely tried to get along with her and it's simply not logical that Eva 'always' hated her when she fought for Ange's custody.

>>718263382 (OP)
Yes, it's a good tranny fucking simulator. Battler believes in the magic of a nice bussy.
The funny part is that they fucked up Beato's dick after he got born and decided to just turn him into a trap with otherwordly dick smegma cleaning abilities. No wonder the old man was going all "OHHHHH BEATORICHE".

I don't watch Joe but it'd be fun to see his reaction to this callback from the very beginning of Higurashi.

>>718287085
Then how do you interpret the Magic/Trick ending split? Just cynicism VS acknowledging other (more positive) perspectives?
To me it's so clearly rooted in the idea that "reality bad, fantasy good" and that's why I fucking hate it. I could see myself accepting it if there were more pointing to your interpretation being what R07 intended, but "truth and illusions" is a recurring theme of the whole thing so I kinda feel you're being too charitable.

>>718281558
>That this is all truth... isn't necessarily so"
She actually doesn't say that in red, she says that's what the red from ep 7 was going to be, but honestly I just read that as Bern gaslighting Ange into working with her.
Ep 7 is the truth but it's not the whole truth. It's the same as with the red scenes from when Bern tears the guts out of Claire. When Will uses theatergoing on Kinzo, everything you see is truth, but you'll notice it cuts to the italian's POV before the surprise attack (hiding the fact Kinzo proposed it to whatever that lieutenant's name) or the Yasu breakdown during the Kinzo scene. They're hiding the ugly parts, but bern was only showing the ugly ones.

It's really funny reading threads like this. Most of the fags here dont even know about the fact that R07 changed the plot of the VN halfway though solely because people figured out the twists early. Or how it went to shit after the main editor died.
He's considered a joke with the jp imgboard crowd

>>718287550
Seeing everything as just a trick closes your eyes to the truth as well. There's no doubt that Ange has many enemies and that her family sucked but there's a line between a healthy amount of skepticism and hope and rejecting everything based on your biased perspective while calling it 'truth'.
Look at how Ange reacts when she finds out the truth and rants about how everything was supposed to be Eva's fault; isn't that just as delusional as the Ushiromiyas being nothing but a fun and happy family?

>>718263382 (OP)
nope. the pacing is terrible and the "mystery" falls apart by episode 2

>>718277878
Good for you.

>>718270330
Nah. I don't believe any of that happened.

I dropped it half way through because i hated the direction it was going. Making the first chapters be just ficitonal in universe killed it for me. Beato's best iteration was just battler's fan fiction, how the fuck can anybody keep being invested in anything that happens after that

>>718287930
Sure, I just don't feel like there's a good enough middle ground presented by either ending. Either Ange is a completely jaded bitch who the game straight up makes fun of for being like Erika, or she gives in to all the fantasy bullshit.
I don't think you should need to accept "magic", or witches, or Battler's fake made-up happy family just to see some nuance in Eva's behaviour and some hope for the future.

>>718288163
Yeah this was a major thing that made Chiru hard to get through for me. You literally just have to accept that none of what's happening actually happened, games get abandoned halfway, characters don't even always act in-character or some of the murders would make no fucking sense. It's dumb.

>>718278475
I like this theory. They both are writers for the story, Ikuko uses red text at a "human world" conference, she shepherds Battler through therapy writing just like she does purely for her own processing. I think it fits just fine given how insane she is, shedding her old personas one last time.
>>718278241
Never considered the gold ingot. One last cursed ass use for it meant for death. I really like that.

>>718273510
He walked this back in the later manga chapters if you care

>>718266661
>All you need to do is agree with the person who's right about everything

>>718288235
That's fine with me, I just think Battler's absurdity is exactly as ridiculous as asserting that the Ushiromiyas were 100% nutjob murderhobos and Ange needed a reminder that she doesn't even remember or understand Eva that well in spite of living with her and on a certain tangent, I get it because my parents used to tell me that I once swallowed a fish and I believed that until they told me they were joking lol. Ange was in fact running away from the truth just as much as Yasu, she just made the excuse that she was trying to find it.

>>718288367
I think this probably the final truth of the story and why Ryukishi could just reveal who the culprit was in the manga. Even with that, your biases might say that Yasu is Ikuko or you might turn away and say there's no way Yasu survived. For all the faults Umineko had I fucking loved how it shows how difficult truth actually is.

>>718266661
Their relationship is good precisely because they don't get together. Van Dine was right. Romance has no place in detective novels.

>>718289153
Christ, George, there's no need to become a feeder and make everyone else fat just because you can't lose weight yourself.

>>718280217
Eva's treatment of Ange comes after George gets killed, which I feel makes it impossible to consider how she would normally act. She's "tainted", so to speak.

>>718289357
I'm feeding her because I want CHILDREN. There's nothing more in life that I want other than CHILDREN. I can't wait for my marriage with Sayo to GIVE BIRTH to children. My LOVE for my FUTURE CHILDREN is all that matters to me. Come Sayo, let's prepare our future house for what will be my only joy in life: my CHILDREN with you.

1) If Eva loved Ange, why did she torture her?
2) How did Yasu know Ange would be sick?

>>718288986
Well regardless, thanks for being the one reply to provide a valuable new perspective anon. I still kinda hate the endings but I can see how someone might like them without being a total delusional weirdo if they choose to interpret it your way.

>>718289579
Nice Reddit screenshot bro

>>718289673
YEAH ERIKA-CHAN YEEEEAAAH

Does anyone else find it funny at the very end when Battler signs his name on a "Donation form" at the orphanage to give a gift, and then is allowed into the Golden Land aka is allowed to rest in peace with the rest of the dead? Just like in chapter 3 where he almost signed and lost the game. Really enjoy Ryuu added that little line as if Battler's getting tricked to accept magic one last time, or just being cheeky alluding to that.

>>718266661
Isn't she just an embodiment of the cat inside Battler's room while writing the chapters/books?

>>718289657
You're welcome. I accept that the story and the endings are divisive for a reason but the truth others see need not be my own.

>>718289723
I like the theory that Banquet's ending correlates to when Tohya became disabled.
>>718289785
No, that's Bernkastel.

>>718289673
Pumping

the people shitting on the magic ending in the thread are a bit disappointing
The point is that Ange is preparing to spend the rest of her life in misery and Battler is just saying to her that if her dead family were able to speak to her now none of them would want that. They would want her to be happy and move on from the tragedy, that's all.
The point of the sea of kakera in the story is to show things could have worked out differently, that there were plenty of possible outcomes where these people (even her fuckass parents) lived good lives and didn't kill anyone.
Adding to this basically all the evil events in Umineko were caused by suffering that was passed on to the next person: Kinzo was pressed into succeeding the family, he abused his kids, his kids abused their kids, and so on. Sayo is a monster, sure, but also never really had a chance at a normal life, that's why we see the potential of how great and nice things could have been with Lion.

I could type a lot more about this but I doubt I'm gonna change anyone's minds here lol

>>718289673
I literally wasn't going to screenshot it but it was a webp when I went to save and I was just so fed up man

>>718289785
Erika was a real girl who went missing and Tohya decided to write libel of.

>>718263382 (OP)
No. Could be decent if all the meta commentary would be removed from all the "books".

>>718290087
>I literally wasn't going to screenshot it but it was a webp when I went to save and I was just so fed up man
if you use a chromium-based server you can get extensions to have a "save as png" option when you right click on images

Only retards think magic is real.

>>718290087
I don't think people shitting on the magic ending even understand what the story was saying about magic and how it can't do what you can't do yourself. Everyone who used 'magic' to run away from reality got BTFO because they didn't have the capability to do shit and refused to accept what they could do, and Ange accepting magic is actually harsh for her because it means she had to accept that her family wanted her to live and happiness is something that she'll only grasp if she makes it herself.

>>718290239
>is a magical witch's bitch
Erikafriends... what do we think about this??!??!

>>718290219
what's the origin of this? I'll admit- I read through the whole thing by watching it on youtube, didn't actually use the game program, meaning I didn't have access to the bios. Was this information in them?

>>718290219
Erika's situation gets kind of glanced over when she's just a girl (who was college age so older than you'd think) that died in a tragic incident and probably was completely normal in real life, but she got turned into the most hateable possible detective in the forgeries just because it happened close to Rokkenjima.
That doesn't get commented on unlike how the public realise they're toying with a real tragedy.

>>718290407
It's her episode 6 tips profile

>>718290321
And adding onto this, if we consider the Yasu = Ikuko interpretation as being true that would also show that Yasu would never be able to be a blonde bombshell goddess nor would she ever be able to make love, but those were things that she simply clung to. In truth what she wanted was validation that she had a right to exist and the entire story would show that Yasu had to fight for that happiness her entire life after trying to kill herself and destroying so many lives that she can never make up for. Or did she do that in the end by closing the door on the tragedy of Rokkenjima?

>>718290635
Thank you, I basically had no context here and had assumed she was an entire fabrication

>>718290438
>hateable
lovable*

>>718290741
>she was an entire fabrication
All of the stories are just a fabrication.

>>718290087
Just use an online webp to png converter bro. Better yet pester the jannies into adding webp support since it's such a common format these days.I know from the hack that they're too incompetent to do that but still I'd be nicer than having to convert everything manually.
Also I don't think people will disagree with your outlook on the ending so much as how it's presented and executed in Twilight.

>>718290087
When I said I hope I misunderstood the ending I meant it. I always hated the feeling of "escapism good" that it gave me, and the more I thought about it over the years the more that bad taste worsened. I do think the actual message could've been far, far better communicated if this wasn't what Ryukishi intended but thanks for sharing a different take.
Beato is still a garbage love interest btw and Battler deserved better. I don't think any amount of ending discussion will dissuade me from disliking her.

>>718290821
Sure, but according to that bio, she's a fabrication from a fact- that a girl had disappeared in a cruise that passed nearby. I assumed she was in her entirety something made up within the context of the story

>>718290821
but the "pieces" are based on real people

>>718290087
I'm so used to seeing the threads be shit that it's nice seeing a series of posts here about this ending that approximates how I felt it was meant to be read

It might feel like cheating, but I feel like the yasu = Ikuko can't be true simply because of the whole marriage situation. (They were supposed to be married, but female staff begged Ryukishi not to do this)
If Yasu was Ikuko, I feel like he could have smoothed it over/explained it/never had pushback in the first place.
I do like the idea of Ikuko = personification of the rules Beatrice. What color would you write in to correct a script? Tohya used blue to propose theories based on his vague memories and she corrected it in red (since she had Eva's journal)
There's probably things that doesn't work with the idea, but if you view the whole meta world as a writer's room thing, I kinda like it even though I would never think it's actually true.

>>718280352
my cock

>>718290881
NTA, but escapism is something absolutely deranged like Natsuhi and the one-winged eagle in her heart because there's no fucking evidence for it. We like Ange might forget that the Ushiromiyas were having the worst days of their lives in those final two days and stories outside of that such as Maria's story with Rosa didn't paint a happy picture either, but the truth that the Ushiromiyas wouldn't have wanted Ange to die with them doesn't have to clash with the Ushiromiyas not being the best of people.

>>718290923
I wonder if female staff pushed back at it just because marriage in Japan would carry expectations that Yasu can't do in the first place (So it wouldn't be that healthy). I also like the idea that the red is akin to editor corrections and that the red can lie since editors can be biased too.

>>718263481
Unironically this. I feel the only people who sing this thing's praises are those who haven't actually read the damn thing, or haven't consumed much literature in general.

>>718263382 (OP)
Yes but the answer arcs were a mixed bag

>>718290881
I know being told 'read the manga' is a copout but I do think it coming out significantly later than episode 8's release did allow Ryukishi to organize his thoughts better. I clipped some relevant pages from chapter 33 of episode 8's manga

>>718291332
Joe has read many literature and even he said that Umineko is a 10/10 masterpiece.

Reminder that every person who calls Umineko a bad mystery cannot name a better one. I read some of those golden age detective "masterpieces", and their mysteries are worse than Umineko's.

>>718291730
I acknowledge that Umineko rambles about shit a lot and it stumbles in places, with that said I call it a masterpiece because it made me contemplate how complicated truth truly is.

>>718291731
You should be able to solve this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpHcE-Oxzg0

>>718291332
I've read a decent amount and I still really like Umineko. For me it's enjoyable for the creative and well thought out story telling devices that it has. I can still acknowledge that it's deeply flawed. It hasn't been brought up itt but to me the fatal flaw of Umineko as a literary work is that any framework you construct to tie narrative elements like the metaverse together starts to fall apart when you try to reconcile it with Ange's assorted plotlines in episodes 4 and 6.

>>718263481
True.

>>718291731
*blocks your path* (I actually like Umineko but this is a banger)

>>718291730
And I know a Steve who agrees with my opinion. Now what? Who the fuck cares about some guy named Joe.

>>718292253
>reading A. A. Milne book and it's not Pooh
we got a hipster over here
I'll try this out thanks anon

>>718291730
who?

>>718292487
Joe Dante

>>718287904
>Or how it went to shit after the main editor died.
That's because BT was probably the one doing the actual writing.

>>718290334
You can't prove this, therefore it isn't true.

>>718288986
>your biases might say that Yasu is Ikuko
My bias says that Battler was the one that actually died and Yasu assumed Battler's identity

>>718290334
I want to lick her toes

>>718292530
Okay. Why is his opinion important?

>>718289558
>I know my "woman" can't have kids, so I'm going to make a joke about having children and grandchildren
What the fuck was his problem?

>>718292487
Joseph Anderson, the greatest critic on YouTube.

>>718263382 (OP)
It's fucking awful. The set-up for the mysteries is good but the solution is so bad that it ruins them. The characters are all unlikable assholes but the story wants you to feel bad for them. The message of the story is so fucking retarded that it makes me hate the whole thing.

>>718293525
He was the epitome of 'Does he know?' though.

>>718293956
But anon, you don't have to believe that they're terrible and unlikable! That's the beauty of having the story take place in a mystery box! No one actually knows what's inside. And if you try to find out your a heartless goat.

>>718293861
A retard. Got it.

>>718293956
Correction, they're assholes but I also felt bad for them.

>>718293460
Because he made Gremlins and Gremlins 2

>>718287904
That's why it became a clusterfuck with conflicting information. How are you supposed to find the truth if all the paths to it are mixed up by the writer changing his plans right in the middle? Not to mention the completely outlandish trannification of Beato.

>>718294267
>Not to mention the completely outlandish trannification of Beato.
How is it outlandish when the tragic case of David Reimer happened in the 1990s?

>>718294267
The story themeing might have changed but the mystery hasn't. There's too many thingspointing to the same answer in ep 1-4.

>>718293460
he created looney tunes back in action

>>718293861
https://youtu.be/0lhy9QnBHmo

The official solution is cemented in episode 2. Alternatives like Rosatrice work in episode 1, but in 2 onward only Shkanontrice does.

>>718275987
I haven't read the manga but the 100+h of the visual novel are in no way worth it.

>>718292058
I read about that case. It's fucking wild. I was able to lock (and unlock) myself from inside in a basement using my long arms and agile hands. But this is probably a case of "sexual bondage going wrong", someone else had to be there.

>>718275987
The manga is good but it removes the single best thing about Umineko, the OST

>>718293861
>the guy who guests on Mouse's stream
He's okay I guess?

>>718278282
That's all I saved
https://litter.catbox.moe/jhcf039gm3iohplz.png
https://litter.catbox.moe/3jydt41r6otzru0p.png
https://litter.catbox.moe/z2mxji3xqyn07kmb.jpg
https://litter.catbox.moe/wczia6f4zyxeqw35.jpg

>>718291220
Sex would literally fix Rosa. Like seriously

>>718294958
To this day he defends this rant btw

>>718295486
i know the latter two are AI, but are the former two?

>>718295486
Here's one I genned recently

>>718295618
Of course he does, why wouldn't he

>>718295308
I think it's more likely he was forced in in a threatening manner like at gunpoint. Secret agent schizoing here, but if he was killed by people from that world, they had an entire week to clean up the crime scene.
The fact police never got to look at the front door is weird too, but they could have just let him in.
If a dude with a gun told you to get in a bag, you'd probably get in, one is certain death the other seems fine, bet he probably didn't know he'd die in minutes once the bag was locked.

>>718295805
he could have let them (culprits) in*

>>718272219
Anon you should read The Little Prince. You'll understand many things in life and Umineko better

>>718295676
Pretty sure all of them are

>>718295865
ismt that the one what withthe blond twink from that moon game?

Why the fuck is it called a game if all you do is read?

>>718296147
I played a game? My version was enchanted and I was truly immersed in the world of a fantasy/mystery adventure.
See? I can say it in read
>>>/umineko+is+a+videogame/

>>718296147
Episode 8 has professor layton gameplay. It just has a 100 hour intro

>>718296147
Many fail at reading. Truly a greater filter than rollslop.

>>718272219
The second the story started to glorify Marias subjectivity I knew this one is going to end nasty

>>718295687
>Kept the metadata for the prompt
Based. I'm stealing this

It's garbage. Dropped it on Ch6.
Incredibly fappable characters though. Aunts are built for sex.

>>718295924
Is it a hat or a boa constrictor.
In the end ryukishi, many weeks and even gooks love the Aristotlean ideas of the little prince on truth and the realities within perception and subjectivity that have to be considered and bridged between people... And love

>>718281282
Because 4chan didn't support rendering transparency in PNGs.

>>718263481
Umineko has aspects that are really good, but this is definitely true. It's an alright novel, which makes it fucking godly by video game standards.

>>718263382 (OP)
It's good up to 4th ep. Mediocre till 6th. The rest is garbage.

>>718272219
Speedreader-kun...

>Umineko
Yikes!!
>Higurashi
Now we cookin'. Any plans to merge all the episodes into one easily accessible package???? I'm on Steam btw........

>>718290438
Erika forgeries were all secretly written by her brother, who fucking hated her.

>>718285905
The rooftop fight is a top 5 Higurashi scene thoughbeit

>>718285905
imagine having taste this shit

>>718278667
>I think is solvable (personally I was close to it but dismissed it as feeling too cliché); solving the specific murder methods I find must mathematically be possible but only insane lunatics would go in such flights of fancy that they could do so and it's almost just being lucky at this point. "I imagined this insane theory- oh I was right"
"No, that can't be it, that's too stupid" was my bane.

>>718298648
It marks the moment the story went into battle nonsense, so no, it is not.

>>718298648
It's unironically better in the anime. It's a slog to read through in the VN.

>>718298648
its a good scene that goes on for way too long. half an hour of *CLANG* *CLANG* got boring.
The bomb defusal running around the school was cool though.

>>718298794
For me, calling something too stupid means you have reached some kind of answer already, you just want to believe there is more to it.
But yeah Umineko is filled with these moments, especially with the individual solutions for each murder where I can vividly remember thinking "okay this only works if there is a lot of bullshitting involved and none of it happened as told... or I'm just missing a small detail mentioned before".

>>718280524
That means Higurashi and Umineko are connected after all...!

>>718275987
The VN ending has the superior form of presentation but Battler and Beato's final moments in Rokkenjima hit so much harder with the full context the manga provides

>>718280352
Brick to skull.
>>718288306
I genuinely find this cute.

The length of it makes it bad. The mystery just goes away and the characters just become dull and repetitive

>>718299163
Fug George could have hid Battler's letter.

>>718287904
>Most of the fags here dont even know ...
The same shit you've posted in every Umineko thread for 10 years? Yeah, we know, thanks.

>>718286050
I feel like that's a larger problem with japan in general. What mangas/anime had satisfying endings in the past 15 years?

>>718298846
>>718298893
>>718299007
ALL WORTH IT FOR "NEXT TIME LETS FALL IN LOVE A NORMAL WAY" LINE

>>718294267
The plots of each episode were what chamged but the overall story/mystery/history remained unchanged. For example, Banquet was written because the OG version of episode three, Land of the Golden Witch, had to be scrapped for being too hard to solve based on the fandom reaction to episode two at the time (most people were taking the magic scenes at face-value and wondering how it couldn't be real).

>>718270478
Hearing him choke up got me too ngl. He's normally so calm on stream

>>718263481
everyone who says shit like this doesn't actually read books but wants to appear to have a superior taste on a basket weaving forum because he's such a loser irl he cannot get clout anywhere else
bet you fucking read the summary of finnegans wake just to pretend you actually understood it and pretend you actually enjoy shit like pathologic

if kyrie's gun was the broken one, doesn't that mean rosa is also still alive

>>718301109
This, I love actual literature like Frankenstein but Umineko is still incredible in spite of its meandering bullshit.

>>718277392
lol

>>718301109
TRVKE
Finnegans Wake is incomprehensible to me but I still try all kinds of literature and appreciate it all in its own
I love Umineko personally

>>718301247
Beato did some fuckery with the guns where they have both live and bean bag/blank ammunition inside. Rosa was definitely killed with a live round somehow, but the rest were bags.

>>718301680
I thought it was because she had a broken gun (one of the Siesta rabbits being dead)

>>718301770
Rudolf had a broken gun. Kyrie got the one meant for Natsuhi in Ep1 (full of blanks). How she killed Rosa with it is a genuinely good question.

>>718301906
Blanks can still kill a person.

>>718300795
Same, man. When someone who always keeps their composure just breaks like that, it hits different. It’s not just sad-it’s *real*. You feel like all the walls dropped for a second and you got a raw glimpse of the person underneath. Makes the story moment land even harder.

>>718301109
Pathologic is fucking amazing tho?

>>718302103
Please make real friends outside of watching bad streamers, I beg you

>>718302103
Based and lovepilled

>>718276554
wtf are you talking about. umineko is gigashilled on these spheres of the internet

Pathologic is only good if you play the original PC-ROM version

Notice how the whole thread people have been talking about the Ushiromiya family and their servants, and NOT the gigantic roster of pointless magical girls or the stdh fight scenes. This is the problem with Umineko - it starts out with a strong strong premise and proceeds to fuck that up by bloating itself with meaningless anime bullshit that also completely destroys the tone.

>>718303539
I agree, those parts could be pretty funny but they ultimately dragged like hell.

>>718294237
And? You're typing as if that's relevant at all.

>>718303539
I will never stop saying it: Ryukishi's writing would be 100x better if he dropped the metafiction shit and just did a straightforward character drama.

>>718303539
There isn't much to say about fights or the witch furniture characters, it's all spectacle with barely any real internal logic. All you can say is whether you felt they were entertaining or not, and personally yeah I found that cool.
Ep8 would have been terribly dull if not for the spectacle.

>>718263382 (OP)
I don't know, it needed more anime battle scenes to solidify the power rankings of the characters.

So has Ryukishi ever explained why he made one of the main protagonists of his previous VN into an evil kinky lesbian in Umineko?

>>718304152
It’s like okonogi and amakusa being reused and never explained

>>718303746
This. Him trying to have it both ways by talking down the reader for caring about the mystery or ignoring it turns me off from the story completely. It's fucking insulting.

>>718303746
Eh, I do think the metafiction stuff is the most interesting aspect of Umineko. It definitely becomes too convoluted but I appreciate the ambition. I think it's why I prefer it to Higurashi, which is essentially a more straightforward character drama but its message and the overall story feel basic in comparison.

>>718304152
Pretty sure if you look on the wiki and do some detectivework youll find the short stories he wrote about Rika in a fragment becoming the witch, Frederica Bernkastel

>>718263481
FPBP
its some chuuni garbage, also its unironic trannyshit

>>718270680
Based and correct take. I refuse to believe R07 was at any point a social worker based on how he wrote Maria.

>>718304325
>bro just be delusional lmao without love it can't be seen
This was not a particularly interesting or advanced story worth having metashit for

>>718277638
The difference with Maelle's ending is that it's the ending where a world isn't sacrificed to hold together a single family of asshole gods.
And yes, the painted people are, in fact, people.

>>718304152
They are really bored about being kakeraverse witches and they are the only beings who can understand each other, the only logical outcome is to become close in their own fucked up way.
But also they aren't really evil at all, if it wasn't for them Umineko ends at ep 1 with Battler giving up and that's it, then twice at ep 5 and ep 6 with Battler either still not getting Beatrice or Ange not knowing what was even her role.

>>718263382 (OP)
It's a masterpiece. An unforgettable experience.

It's good.
Sex with Dlanor

>>718303539
What is there to talk about regarding the magic characters? People would rather tune it out and instead focus on the better parts of the story, and how they could be improved or went wrong. Resolving the magic character is always an easy fix: remove them.

>>718303539
You're retarded. The magic fights are Kino, but the story is obviously about the Ushiromiya's. Of course nobody would wanna have lengthy discussions about Chiester 410. Doesn't mean their scenes aren't fun though.

>>718304392
>its some chuuni garbage, also its unironic trannyshit
Why is trannyshit all the best shit, bros? why do people who have never read the novel accuse it of being so?
>everything GOOD is Anti-tranny KINO everything le BAD is trannyslop
What's next, everything down is up-tranny?

>>718283916
That's because of higurashi reboot, and Ciconia's announcement thar made a lot of people read all the WTC.
2013 to 2018 period was comfy.

Cumming on Bernkastel's face when she nipah~s

/v/ thoughts on Golden Fantasia?

>>718304802
and then ciconia came out and it sucked

>>718304702
>DORANOOOOOOOOOR!
>BEAT
>HER
>TO
>DEATH

>>718304783
For me, it's watching people seethe about Zepar and Furfur.

>>718304524
>without love it can't be seen
>What, you don't care about that? Goat! Goat! Imagine being a heartless loser who cares about the story's mystery!
How insufferable

>>718304892
I'd rather she beat Battler's cock. With her hips. Her wide, childbirthing hips.

>>718304783
Calm down Mouse

>>718304848
Ciconia was well-received though

>>718304956
I want to be in the middle of a sandwich with them.

>>718291730
It's just cope because /v/ now has to be contrarian. Umineko is widely respected as a VN despite the fact it doesn't get everything right. Joe accurately identified that Disco Elysium underwent a hasty rewrite but also believes the strengths override the problems, the exact same as Umineko. Turns out if you aren't huffing on outrage bait glue you can have a nuanced opinion.

>>718305075
Sure it was. Whatever makes you feel better.

>>718304325
I think so too, especially considering who's writing it in-universe.

>>718290407
I find the concept of secondaries for VNs very retard. (Re)read it by yourself.

>>718305251
It does have the best pacing out of Ryukishi's first episodes. Both Higurashi and Umineko start off bombarding you with the POV's every thought, even the intrusive ones, and that's a huge part of what drags the hell out of the pacing.

>>718304226
>and never explained
rykishi characters are actors to him. he reuses them even outside of WTC, though the name and the exact chara design may differ

>>718305193
>It's just cope because /v/ now has to be contrarian. Umineko is widely respected as a VN despite the fact it doesn't get everything right.
Bullshit. By the time ep8 rolled around most of /jp/ thought it was going off the deep end.

>>718303539
>ushiromiya family
>each character has their own life, worldview, and troubles leading them to be the characters they are
>magic characters
>created by sayo's delusions
>no real backstory, they exist to serve a purpose
>even the game refers to them as illusions by the end
The only magic characters of note are Virgilia and Ronove because they give more details about Kumasawa and Ronove in relation to Sayo.

>>718305645
It's The Sopranos effect, at the time of its release, the ending was very controversial and caused a meltdown in the fandom.

But as a decade passed, the people who were pissed moved on, the people who jumped in afterwards had the entire story available to experience right from the start so it the consensus became reevaluated to being more positive

Going from chapter 1 of Umineko to chapter 8 results in severe whiplash; such a tonal shift, with like 3/4 of the characters being new. Higurashi does this so much better.

>>718263481
I read dozens of books per year when I was a kid and teenager before Umineko and I still liked it.
The correct take is "if you're fucking retarded then yeah". You can grow out of being retarded fortunately.

>>718305881
>the consensus became reevaluated to being more positive
Maybe a few years ago, sure. You'd have people zealously defend the work and use all the canned responses to silence critics. Sentiment towards Umineko has shifted again to where most people might like it overall but they recognise that it's a heavily flawed VN. You still have people that claim that Umineko is the best piece of writing they have ever read or that it changed their life, but those people are (rightly) treated as deranged.

>>718304804
Calm down, Lambda

>>718305645
A few autists hating it doesn't change the fact that Umineko is still one of the most highly rated VNs and that R07 is a respected author who influenced many other writers and artists. Some of the most beloved games here on /v/ were directly influenced by Higurashi and Umineko.

>>718306252
cope

>>718306074
I don't think so, even this year with the upcoming release of Silent Hill F. The comments I read on the internet, including in this site, say they're mainly checking out the game because Ryukishi wrote it and how they loved Higurashi/Umineko.

>>718306574
Believe what you will. I thought that Hirurashi and Umineko sucked but some parts were fantastic. Won't read anything by Ryuukishi again but will I check out a piece of work that is playing to his strengths? Absolutely; I'm hyped to see what the new Silent Hill will be like. Ain't no fucking way am I gonna play €80 for it, though.

>>718263382 (OP)
Is the steam version any good?

>>718306749
For some reason they don't include the essential 07th mod

>>718271509
He does have a tendency to bothsides things now that I think about it.
Like how Ange was also at fault for being abused because she was mean to her aunt.

I prefer the original sprites because Ange is a little fat. It adds to her character and I feel worse for her being bullied

>>718306749
for some reason they removed animated rain and tl notes, and added fuckass pachinko sprites, but other than that it's the same as the original releases

>>718307740
what are tl notes

>>718307824
translator notes, basically something untranslatable having a note attached to it, for example explanation that everything written in <> was in english in the original japanese script

>>718307918
Oh, but those are in the steam version? I remember that happening maney times

>>718307341
I unironically think it's easier to jerk off to her original sprites because picturing her flabby meaty ass rippling from my pelvic thrusts activates my neurons.

>>718308190
the <> are still in the text yes, but there's no explanation attached to them what they mean

>>718295865
Already read it when I was in elementary school. Don't think it had any impact on me reading Umineko as a teenager and not sure what you even mean by this.

>>718304783
Magic scenes are fun when they have some kind of internal logic or set of rules they try to follow. That's why Krauss vs Goat and Chiester scenes were fun, where Kanon vs Goat or Beatrive vs Vergilia were not.

>>718308794
Assuming you mean the subjectivity / cat box angle based on your other reply: I perfectly get that, the story beats you over the fucking head with it. The problem is once you've had the cat box busted open after Bern shows you the reality in ep 7 tea party, it stops being "subjectivity" and becomes pure unhealthy cope. That's what ep 8 feels like (though the manga apparently goes a different direction with it).

>>718306842
Because it's a fan made mod.

>>718304990
no ordinary human could survive that...

>>718263784
the absolute state of /v/

>>718308794
Because you were a kid, you didn't gave much experience in contrary to your teenage self.
Also, The Little Prince was first popular to adults.

>>718263382 (OP)
yes I played 4 years ago probably won't ever re read though

>>718265048
>he got filtered by Bernkastel's game
Pathetic.

>>718263481
ANIME NIGS CALLED OUT

>>718309347
He loves it though?>>718309347

>>718309282
Yeah I know, have to go to other boards to get the good stuff

>>718263784
Please consider killing yourself.

watch

>>718309347
Why are you lying?

>>718309034
GOG includes fan mods and patches in their official releases...

>>718309186
And Battler is no ordinary human. He's an Ushiromiya.

>>718304810
https://youtu.be/XfNveQcEGqk
https://youtu.be/1nszadDTVuU
https://youtu.be/h58Nw8d8U7E

>>718263382 (OP)
Nortubel > Umineko

>Here's what Ange does in the meantime in the perfect magic ending bro
https://youtu.be/qIHCgdeeo3M?si=Xp_D7wWqoRVz_HFX

>>718310870
ryukishi loves making every woman a fujo for some reason

>>718310928
Hes so real for that

>>718310928
A lot of Umineko ships tend to be yuri-oriented so of course Ryukishi responded accordingly

Rosatrice the truth of Umineko

>>718312063
There is no person I have greater respect for in Umineko than Maria's father. My man capable enough to hook up with Rosa, fuck her raw, and dip without raising the child, nor having to deal with the crazy Ushiromiya family.

>>718312302
>and dip without raising the child, nor having to deal with the crazy Ushiromiya family.
>implying the father isnt pic related
I doubt their is any textual evidence for it, but I will assume anyways

>>718312652
You forgot erikantrice

>>718312887
i hate this dipshit but i respect ryukishi for basically showing off a beta design

>>718303690
Because they're good movies and he made them.