Thread 718313276

What is your opinion on the normalization of gamepads in fighting games?

>>718313276 (OP)
>normalization of gamepads in fighting games
What?
Gamepads have been used in fighting games for 35+ years.
Shit you can play street fighter 1 with a joystick, a predecessor to a gamepad.

>>718313276 (OP)
>top left corner, top right corner, bottom left corner, bottom right corner of the joystick
>all in less than 0.1 seconds
how the fuck are you supposed to do this?

>>718313629
You just skip your shower schedule in order to practice

>>718313451
>Gamepads have been used in fighting games for 35+ years
yes in casual settings. But if you were serious about competitive play you used a fight stick. It's only recently that games have incorporated single button special inputs and auto combos to accommodate gamepad users

>>718315076
you mean a hitbox
either way it doesn't matter what you use as long as it's not an analogue stick, dpad is fine

>>718315076
>But if you were serious about competitive play you used a fight stick
gamepad is better in competitive play. A hitbox is better than both.

>>718313629
you just move your finger fast

>>718313276 (OP)
Execution difficulty is irrelevant when neutral skips are strong

>>718313276 (OP)
>>718315076
all the strongest NA players since SF5 use gamepad
mena, punk, idom all won evos and capcom cups and they all used gamepads long before modern mode was a thing
nobody ranks high consistently with modern mode in SF6 anyway, it's a complete non factor in the competitive scene

>>718315076
>But if you were serious about competitive play you used a fight stick
lol what?
Are you retarded?
Pad is a perfectly viable input. Shit most games are played on fighting pads its only try hard faggots or people who grew up in arcades, japs, who play on fight sticks.
The best players in the world in games like tekken or street fighter all play on pads and not simple input shit you fucking retard

Ryu needs to poo

>>718313276 (OP)
>gamepad
non issue
>Modern
Obnoxious for instant supers but it's so immensely limiting it's gone right around to being useless

>>718315472
What's the difference between a hitbox and a regular pc keyboard?

>>718313276 (OP)
Just make it a category.
Game mode: simplified/normal
And both players play by the same rules.

>>718317759
Everyone got a downgrade in this game except for Juri who looks the same, and Mai Shiranui who got a full upgrade

>>718317161
About $200

What a retarded thread

>>718315076
>But if you were serious about competitive play you used a fight stick.
The only people who used sticks competitively did so because they were used to arcade layouts, not because sticks are a better input method, sticks have always been the worst input method due to the massive travel distance of the stick itself, which is why stick players are nearly extinct in the modern competitive landscape.

>>718315472
>>718315674
>>718318607
The game was designed to be played with sticks. Using digital buttons for movement is a form of cheesing the mechanics. It's the same as playing with a keyboard and mapping your supers to a macro key

>>718315674
>mena, punk, idom
what pads are they using? ps4/5? any mods?

>>718313276 (OP)
whats the Z button?

I'm ok about making fags seethe for anything
We live in a outrage culture war timeline
And that's a le good thing™!

>>718319201
it's just a normal ds4/5
mods are not tournament legal

>>718319050
sure thing bro, everyone switched to modern because of your post and fighting games died

>>718319050
>The game was designed to be played with sticks
???
FGs have stopped being designed around sticks since the late 90's

>>718319050
>The game was designed to be played with sticks.
Anon, the majority of fighting games are designed for consoles first due to the global market, most of them don't even get arcade releases anymore. And even then, you could win with pad for everything that wasn't Street Fighter 4 due to plinking to hit one-frame links being easier to do on stick/hitbox. And even then there was that guy who won SF4 at EVO on pad.

>>718315076
Straight up not true. Gamepads were used competitively in plenty of games but were most popular starting in SF4.

The reason? We finally had arcade equivalent games that could be played at home, and people's first exposure to the game was at home. Japan always used sticks because they played the games first in Arcade (All versions of SFIV released in arcade in Japan prior to console releases, which gave Japan a huge head start and is one of the major reasons they dominated), but when it came to the West the arcade releases were smaller and more niche and so most people had to wait for the console ports.
SF4 was the last hurrah of the arcade fighter. SFV was released on consoles worldwide and even more people got into the game just by buying it on their playstation or later PC.

Nowadays though most competitive players play on hitbox. Gamepad is rarer but some people still play on it. Fight sticks are basically extinct because they are objectively worse.

tl;dr - Gamepads got popular in SF4 (before any modern controls) and nowadays hitboxes (aka leverless) are most popular.

>>718315472
>A hitbox is better than both.
You fell for marketing. There's never been a dominant player on hitbox.

>>718317161
Ergonomics and the ability to easily plug them into a console. Most hitboxes are designed for PS5 and then have an adapter to be used on PC, or the inverse. A keyboard is a lot more iffy and you never know if it will work or not.
You can play at a high level in your house on keyboard but there is basically no shot you can take it to a tourney.

>>718319687
>FGs have stopped being designed around sticks since the late 90's
1. This is false, arcade cabinets have continued to feature sticks for most games
2. Even if you argue that the games are no longer designed for the arcade cabinet first, the underlying base mechanics have been inherited from the games that were designed for them. The motion input system for street fighters has not fundamentally changed since 2, hence it is a system that was fundamentally designed and balanced around sticks and not digital buttons

>>718319892
Yeah, okay, I'll just look at the Evo footage where basically everyone in top 8 plays on leverless.
Arcade Sticks are outdated and useless. They were made because controllers from the 90s sucked ass for fighting games and gave boomers nostalgia. Nowadays a gamepad or leverless are objectively better and no one plays on them.

>>718319864
>>The reason? We finally had arcade equivalent games that could be played at home
There were arcade perfect games long before SF4, arguably as early as the PS1

>>718317161
Latency. Keyboards have unacceptable amounts of latency

>>718320126
My post was already getting too long, but SF4 also had tolerable online that could be used to train and do sets against people that were semi-close without much issue. I used to play with a friend in Texas (from Florida) and it was decent enough. Obviously Florida to California was barely playable and to EU or Asia was unacceptable.
And a lot of older ports of fighting games could come close but still had to cut frames of animation or downres sprites/backgrounds. Also the tournaments (which got actual mainstream attention) in SF4 used the console versions. Everything was pointing at consoles/PC becoming the main platform and SFV solidified it.

>>718320061
Fighting games have been overwhelmingly ported to console since the late 90's to the point some console versions started to become the definitive versions right in those years.
>The motion input system for street fighters has not fundamentally changed since 2, hence it is a system that was fundamentally designed and balanced around sticks and not digital buttons
This is complete nonsense since sticks do not fundamentally allow more motions than digital buttons let alone more precise motions, which is exactly why hardly anyone uses them anymore, fighting games were designed around sticks as a necessity for the specific hardware manufacturing standards of the arcade industry and not because they were an ideal input method, after the arcade industry crumbled in the mid-late 90's devs had no longer any reason to pretend otherwise.

the better player will still win so I don't really see a problem

>>718320061
>>718320535
Dude is acting like in order to do a move you had to hold the stick at 36 degrees exactly and then a 72 degree angle and then 95 degrees. The sticks were 8 ways, the same as a d-pad lmao.
The only fighting game I can think of with 360 degree inputs is Smash Bros, like Melee with fox's up-b, but even then they still make leverless controllers for Smash.

>>718320116
>Yeah, okay, I'll just look at the Evo footage where basically everyone in top 8 plays on leverless.
Everyone who didn't win

>>718320257
What? Don't gamurr keyboard have absurdly high polling rates?

>>718313276 (OP)
>the normalization of gamepads in fighting games?
That's been happening since SF2

>>718320535
>sticks do not fundamentally allow more motions than digital buttons let alone more precise motions,
Neither of which are relevant to the point at hand. The point is that sticks were the controls the games were fundamentally designed around for the intended game experience, not that they are the highest performing input method. In fact, as you have pointed out, the problem is the opposite.
Let me give you an analogy: along with fighting games, another type of game that was traditionally seen at arcades were Light gun shooters like Time Crisis and Virtua Cop. Like it says in the name, these games were designed to be played with a lightgun that you point at the screen. Now if you were to port these games to PC, you could map your mouse cursor to where the lightgun sensor would be pointing, and it would be better and more precise, in fact it would be so much better as to trivialize the game, to the point anyone would be able to pick up and beat the game at the hardest difficulty without breaking a sweat. The problem then would not be that using your mouse would be ineffective, but that it wouldn't be the same as playing the game as it was designed

I use my keyboard to play fighting games

You guys are being pedantic. OP was clearly talking about modern controls. Also if you go to any SF tournament most people are using sticks. Hitboxes are technically better but people prefer the feel of a stick of a controller more.

>>718313276 (OP)
It was always a weird stance behind it. Fighting games used to be only in arcades, therefore arcade pads became the norm, and whilst fight games did come to consoles eventually, there was still a strong arcade scene as well as reinforcement by companies pushing out limited edition sticks in bundles and brand options for sticks as well.

If anything, it's similar to how with the WII you got wii sports. It wasn't that people sought out fight sticks to use as much as the experience of the stick was tied to the game, which is a stigma that's been disappearing with all the wins on pads or gimmick controllers hitting the news like wheels. It's very similar to GCN controllers for smash, where it's intrinsically tied to the experience rather than needed for it.

>>718321818
How? I did that back in like 08 when i first emulated sf3 on MAME and i fucking hated the feeling of it.

>>718321210
They're dogshit when it comes to latency because gamers want programmable keys and macros. Nobody really designs gaming keyboards to be latency free because why would you? There's no demand

>>718322170
I dunno man, I press the buttons to do combos and stuff. Perhaps it helps that I've got a reasonably expensive keyboard?
I've owned a stick and a gamepad and nothing else feels quite as good.

>>718322218
Bro what, the average gaming keyboard has 4000hz latency. That's absolutely fucking nuts. Far, far better than a gamepad. You even get some at 8000hz. Which is just overkill unless you're playing at 500fps.

>>718322837
I don't think polling rate is a good way to measure latency in keyboards

>>718323163
Should we just off vibes then?

>>718323302
You measure it

>>718323461
But keyboard keys have travel time. Meaning you could generate false latency readings by swapping in really soft springs.

>>718323582
Traditionally people have used LEDs to negate travel time, key lights up when it's pressed

>>718323461
Still, competitive FPS games are orders of magnitude bigger than fighting games. If keyboards were laggy, wouldn't CS pros be using a hitbox for movement instead of KB?

>>718322170
Good chance you were on a mushy membrane keyboard back in 2008, you can get a nice tactile mechanical keyboard for cheap these days

>>718317161
See
>>718317984
Posts like this are cope
>>718322218
>>718320257

Buttons feels nicer than keyboard though

I think it's pretty funny how fighting games have been simultaneously trying to simplify specials but also bloating the mechanics and button count out the ass. Somehow it's supposed to be harder for beginners to learn to do quarter circles and z-motions than 3-4 separate system mechanic buttons plus dash and throw macros.