Thread 718489864

There is no concrete reason to disqualify these from "being retro."

Every attempt to do so has been based on "feeling" and not something with any actual substance.

>>718489864 (OP)
Classic car comin thru ;) Yeah it has heated seats, air conditioning, locking seat belts, child safety locks, computerized diagnostics, and a fuel efficient design but it's over X years old so that means it's basically as classic as a 69 Charger.

>>718490198
Now *THIS* is a retro car. Yeap, they don't make em like they used to.

>>718489864 (OP)
dude, the 360 released 20 years ago, many users on this webshite weren't born by that point even. Not only is is is retro indeed, but you must be seeking a grave and preparing your testament by this point

>>718489864 (OP)
being "retro" means nothing in this day and age

>>718489864 (OP)
Because we haven't moved on as a industry from gen 7
Every gen after it has been a extension
We are still in a heavily monitised industry that cares more about marketing than actual game quality
Online gaming still is the main focus
Mechanically we haven't moved on either, the biggest games today play almost the exact same as they did in 2008
If you want a more solid answer, we are still on HDMI, wich the 360 and ps3 used

>>718489864 (OP)
>ps1 takes 8-10 years to become retro
>ps2 takes 16-20 years to become retro
>so the ps3 should... be retro right now?!?!?
You failed math class didn't you?

Maybe the problem is that as time goes on stuff gets "solved" more consistently so newer products are more derivative of the refined versions than the ones still trying to figure it out.

By the time of the PS3 and 360 video game development had settled into a fairly stable state. It was the first generation to succeed a generation where all the major players were the same as the previous (so no 3DO, no Atari Jaguar, etc. - essentially no "also rans" that made anything close to the mainstream recognition of the big players in the space). So everyone else knew their place and the room for experimentation had crossed that threshold where simply going with the flow was better than trying to innovate.

>>718490198
>Classic car comin thru ;)

The defintion for classic cars has universally been 25 years so yeah a 90sAccord is technically a classic car

because its 2025, retard

>>718490605
>the biggest games today play almost the exact same as they did in 2008
It's easy to say this (and it's true from a broad perspective) but there's a lot of little things that have changed in how any developer, much less a big developer, will present certain ideas/mechanics. On paper they play the same, in practice an actual game from 2008 would have a SHIT TON of extremely tiny tweaks to make before it was truly indistinguishable from a modern contemporary.
Sure we can joke about how an entire generation grew up with Fortnite, GTAV and Skyrim being "current games" but you really can tell that they're not anymore. They're not retro yet, but bits and pieces of their design have started to slip into being dated. Time IS moving. It's just glacial now.

>>718489864 (OP)
What's your definition of 'retro'? Cause there has to be a meaning for that word to be useful other than just a synonym of 'old'.

Putting a disc into a console? That's so retro.

>>718489864 (OP)
Retro isn't just the amount of time from when something was first made, it's from when it fell out of the general public's view. For 7th gen that didn't really happen until ~2015 or so, and generally something isn't considered retro until about 15 years after it's time, so I'd say they still have about 5 years til then.

>>718491020
Representative of a different era with different standards to what we see today. Essentially a world apart thanks to the passage of time and to revisit it would be like stepping back to an age where it feels foreign by comparison.

>>718490964
I understand where you're coming from , small details in game design changes but games whenever a new generation came around would end up looking and playing completely different to what came before, for example a game like Burnout 3 would not have been possible on the PSX no matter how many graphical tweaking you do

>>718491020
Meaningfully different from what we currently have, primarily or solely due to age.
>but actually game design was solved on the PS2 and literally nothing has changed since so retro stops with the ps1!
If games still were exactly like they were on PS2 this board would be a LOT less miserable.

>>718489864 (OP)
GTA V. I would call the early years of 6th gen retro because it clearly used different game design philosophy but anything made after 2008 essentially plays like modern games.

The hardware advances are what give the distinct vidya eras their own visually distinct identity. You can tell 8bit consoles apart and the jump to 16bit was a significant one. Same to 32bit.
Once consoles reached the 6th gen the advancements have started to hit diminishing returns. This era of gaming won't be recognized for its hardware advances but for its cultural one, as thats when gaming became a lot more mainstream of a hobby.
To simply call things retro due to the passage of time does a disservice to what it means to separate from what is contemporary/modern gaming.

>>718491374
So what you're saying is online connectivity was the one true downfall of gaming.

>>718489864 (OP)
>There is no concrete reason to qualify these for "being retro."
>Every attempt to do so has been based on "feeling" and not something with any actual substance.
See, I can post retarded bullshit too.
GG EZ

>>718491337
I don't understand why retro is only allowed to change when big changes happen to the medium as a whole. It means "X% different from contemporary design", whenever contemporary design changes the threshold for what is retro MUST change, no? The reason retro slowed down is because contemporary design changes super slowly now.

>>718489864 (OP)
i love retro games!

>>718489864 (OP)
They're internet consoles. Half of the content of this consoles is on the internet, in a server.
The way you make money with em is different than the way you make money with older consoles.
From the NES to the PS2, you make money by creating this complete package that is sold on stores, on PS3 and up, you make money by making the player go to the online store and buy small things or the game itself.
It's a gap as wide as the arcade and home consoles.
>but there are complete games on the PS360
Yes, and there's arcade conversions on the consoles.
So while you CAN call em retro, they're not the same as the older consoles, it's a different kind of machine entirely.

Also the games still look more or less the same, so it >feels
wrong.

>>718491532
It isn't the "retro era" and "modern era" as a contrast to one another. "Modern" refers to how modern games are designed and "retro" refers to everything that's a certain amount different from that solely due to its age. When "modern" inches forward, so too must retro.

To me it was the introduction of HDTV connectivity.

Because consoles before this generation simply do not have a way integrally to communicate with TVs we have today, requiring stuff like the OSSC or RetroTink to exist to smooth out that connection gap (since HDTVs trying to handle this themselves has been a grand failure).

But a PS3 or post-Xenon 360? One cable that still works now as it did back then. Without that aspect of being divided from today's tech it's hard to sell it to me as being "from the past".

>>718489864 (OP)
>no reason to disquality these from "being retro"

Except for the fact that GTA V was released on the PS3 and 360, and it's still the currently played main title.

>>718492041
Resident Evil 4 released on the Nintendo Switch in 2019. It crossed four generations (and since the Ditman glitch works on literally every port it's clearly the same code too) before they inexplicably decided enough was enough and remade it instead of porting it yet again.

>>718491934
Personally I think "retro" is the wrong label to use. You can break up retro games into distinct categories that are themselves gated by the advancement of technology.
The line between current gaming and where this arbitrary line where retro ends hasnt budged and its because of factors that aren't dependent on the amount of years its been, yet the word still carries the meaning of "old" with it.
I'm not going to bother myself with coining them, but the 2000s was a very different place in gaming than both decades surrounding it, I wouldn't call the consoles and within those times to be retro because I believe it was a more cultural thing from before the internet became shit.

>>718491842
Who's trying to claim the Wii or the PS3 is the "same kind of thing" as the N64 or PS1? Calling them both "retro" doesn't even begin to imply they're equivalent. "Retro" right now refers to 50s-style diners and 80s-style roller rinks at the same time, that's not because of any commonality in the establishments beyond "this is no longer in style".

>>718492347
That's what inevitably happens when you try to use the same label to define it.
>console X and console Y belongs to the same group

>>718492461
So do you think a PS1 and an Intellivision are more similar than, say, a Dreamcast and a 360?

>>718491532
The jump to HD was still a big deal imo, we went from texture work and simple geometry to to heavy use of shaders and games actually looking photorealistic. And that's also the generation that brought online gaming to the masses.

>>718491395
Zoomers forget the early 7th gen consoles had very limited storage and there was all kinds of cost cutting wanketry around that, which made devs reluctant to depend on it. By late 7th gen PlayStation and XBox had fully morphed into gimped PCs.

It's a borderline era like the 80s for Classic Rock. You have some things still made in the old style alongside new shit which is clearly something else.

>>718492617
That's a pretty good counter argument, but i will have to say yes due the dev intent.
In the intellivision and PS1, the plan is to make a self contained product that is sold on stores.

On the Xbox 360, you don't have to sell the game on stores, or even sell the game, it can be literally free, and it can have a playable demo, or even be a full game that when you copy to a flash drive turns into a demo when you run it on another console. The internet factor allows for a lot more monetizing strategies.
If the dreamcast had better storage than the VMU, it probably would be able to pull it off as well, but it don't.

>>718493036
>Zoomers forget the early 7th gen consoles had very limited storage and there was all kinds of cost cutting wanketry around that


Only because in 2005 250 GB of storage for something being sold as a consumer electronic was infeasible. You could get storage sizes that big but they were retail HDDs meant to be purchased by the end-user. OEM prices for that kind of thing was not affordable at the time so they had to settle for sub-100 GB storage sizes for consumer devices.

>>718490887
according to wikipedia age is not the base requirement. For a 90s accord that no one has interest in restoring for aesthetics or as a time capsule keepsake than it isn't defaulted to being a classic just because it's over 25 years old.

>>718492302
>Personally I think "retro" is the wrong label to use
Same. "Retro" is the wrong label to use for a closed set with a fixed end in general. But that's because I think such a closed set is worthless to try and define. We already have the numbered generations, if you want to talk about games from before the Xth console generation then just fucking say that.

Plus with the low penetration of accessible, always-on broadband connectivity and the class of Internet speeds that were available to those who could had access to it meant that digital distribution for consoles was not the major interest of the industry at the time. Sure it was possible but the early days would have targeted games measured in MBs, not gigs.

As mass storage came down in price both for OEMs and consumers it made digital distribution more viable so the need for large storage pools was increasingly relevant for consoles (PS3s allowing user-serviceable storage from the start and the 360 eventually adopting USB storage to counteract their integrated storage option being tightly controlled by MS).

>>718493107
If the intent to make a complete product was some sort of delineator, then was Banjo Kazooie not retro? They intended to make you buy it alongside Tooie to access all the content in Tooie. It was only due to hardware changes in the N64 that they abandoned the plan, but nonetheless, Banjo still was made with the intent of being part of an otherwise incomplete game.
Or for that matter- Pokemon? Actually, since one could argue that even without the option of completing the Pokedex, the Pokemon games are still "complete games", what about Pokemon Stadium? Without an actual Pokemon game to plug in you're missing more than half of the game.

>>718494061
You add ANY sort of network and developers immediately go full "hello goyim!"

>>718492302
It's a valid descriptor for pre-contemporary. Arguably anything before the 2010 wokeshart is now 'retro', but in terms of gameplay and graphics I can see people arguing that GTA V and ME2 aren't retro because games basically still look and play the same.

>>718494513
*GTA IV

Real cut off should be when SEGA withdrew from the supporting their own consoles. 7th gen never when you have physical games that aren't even complete and require online downloads to be playable. Thats a bridge too far over even 6th gen.

>>718489864 (OP)
Feeling is the only thing we can know. Everything else is just an assumption based on a feeling. Even the words you're reading on the screen may not be real, they're just what you're brain feels are there based on stimulation from your eyes.

>>718489864 (OP)
I had both of these damn things hooked up with analog AV out. They're fucking retro.

>>718495286
Most games look like shit on AV because they're designed to big 16:9 televisions.

Most. Virtua fighter 5 looks fucking amazing on the Xbox 360 AV on a CRT TV.

>>718493036
I remember PS3 games still being fully on the disc and not requiring much storage beyond maybe a 500MB install. I never got any trouble with storage, by the time digital sales became more common the consoles came with plenty of storage. I think the situation with the PS5 is much worse with games taking upwards of 200+ GB install sizes. But storage still being 1TB with the OS eating a chunk of it.

>>718489864 (OP)
I was 20yo when the 360 came out

>>718495635
>Virtua fighter 5

Gawd, talk about a series that can't move on.

>>718497967
They just did an remix thing of it right?

>>718490198
>>718490280
Yeah, those are legally antiques. Are you fucking retarded? The meaning of words don't change because they don't fit your preconceived notions of what's correct.

>>718498543
Incorrect.

>>718498207
Not "just", it's a port of a PS4 version of the game with upgraded balance. That was a total reskin of the PS3/360 game from 2011 (VF5: Final Showdown).

>>718490198
Classic implies it was once valuable. This is a cheap car, it was never valued, it was never considered good. Compare the price on Ebay of a Voodoo 2 to an S3 ViRGE (or anything made by S3 really). One is a classic, the other is and was a cheap pos.

>>718499354
That's hilarious

>>718489864 (OP)
Nothing has changed from 7th gen consoles to now other than significant drops in quality.
One can argue that 6th gen was still sort of experimental, but even that is still very close to modern gaming.
The current standards are mostly just adaptations and degenerations of the standards that PC set in the mid-90s.
That's just what happens when the market decides to hold back its capabilities so it can continue to pander to gimped hardware and controllers.

>>718500172
The virge is also a classic, due its excelent 2D performance, and having the "infamy" of the 3D engine.
The virge doing 2D, voodoo doing 3D combo was VERY common.
That car is probably like some early ATI rage or something trident.

>>718489864 (OP)
Retro is when something new is imitating something old. If I make a 16-bit pixel art game today that's retro.

Something actually old is not retro. It's vintage.

>>718501789
I usually think of that as "throwback".

>>718489864 (OP)
I agree that seventh gen is retro by now, but I still don't fucking want it on /vr/.
Having PS2-babbies on /vr/ is bad enough, adding PS3 would take the place from unusable to nuclear wasteland.

My favorite retro game, Skyrim

>>718493036
>It's a borderline era like the 80s for Classic Rock. You have some things still made in the old style alongside new shit which is clearly something else.
anything made before July 31, 1980 is classic rock, anything after is not.

>>718501789
vintage is a faggoty ass word
ill continue using the word retro

Old is a pretty good word.