Thread 718584685

But why?

Just a few years ago it was widely considered the best metroidvania of all time.

You can only choose one why pick the pale imitation?

>>718584685 (OP)
>considered the best metroidvania of all time
Yeah by fucking redditors lmao. Metroid codified the genre and will always sit at its top. It’s nothing to be mad about, all three games are good. You just can’t beat the best.

>worst game in the poll.
>gets surprised when nobody votes it.

zoomer foomer toomer woomer coomer foomer goomer boomer yoomer soomer loomer joomer Shut the fuck up

>>718584830
lmao this

>>718584685 (OP)
I was a huge fan of Hollow Knight… until I played Super Metroid and realized it was way better.

>>718584685 (OP)
Because they are casuals raised on moviegames.

Super Metroid and SotN are so easy to the point where you can just bruteforce and facetank everything in the game and still never die. Both are by far the most easy, casualized, and accessible entry in their series.

Hollow Knight is brutally hard, particularly in its bosses, and demands you take note of your surroundings and tread cautiously because the tiniest mistakes can lead to death.

So are these bot threads or what? It's just the same people jerking themselves off endlessly and sprouting the same copy pasted opinion while whining whenever someone dares to go against it?

Also SOTN is so piss easy that you're a legit cuck if you put that game on the top of any list. Fucking movie tier game.

/thread

Hollow Knight was always overrated

To any indie devs in this thread that are procrastinating, stop making these games, you'll never top super, it simply can't be done

>>718585017
>Also SOTN is so piss easy that you're a legit cuck if you put that game on the top of any list. Fucking movie tier game.
Super Metroid is far easier

hK dosen't even deserve to be on the same poll as those 2.

>>718585005
Super Metroid is actually way harder than Hollow Knight.

>>718585162
based

>>718585005
Hollow Knight’s stolen soulsfaggotry mechanics don’t make it a better game.

>>718585017
>complains SotN is piss easy and movie tier
>praises Super Metroid where you can facetank enemies the entire game and your healthbar barely gets a dent before the game floods you in health pickups
You cannot be fucking serious...

Super Metroid is literally one of the easiest action games of all time, even by modern standards. If the bossfights didn't require the tiniest modicum of effort that they do, it would legit be less than 1/10 in terms of difficulty. And bossfights are like 2% of the game, so the other 98% you might as well just be blindfolded with one hand behind your back.

>tranime image
Ah... that explains the retardation

>>718584685 (OP)
>CoD
>Battlefield
>roblox fps map by juanmiguel2010

Why is this so FUCKING HARD

the best metroidvania ever made is not even a metroidvania

>>718584685 (OP)
Because I'm actually old enough to be your dad and prefer games I grew up with.

>>718585171
No, it isn't, not even in the slightest. Super Metroid is one of the absolute easiest action game in existence.

>>718584685 (OP)
but you say zoomers never played other games beside HK
why would they vote the other two?

>>718585171
Not in a casual palythrough it isn't. SM in a playthrough where you organically collect all of the powerups you reasonably find becomes very easy, and the enjoyment is in the exploration and atmosphere. I say this as someone who considers SM nearly perfect and my favorite game of all time. You can do challenge runs where you collect less items or sequence break to increase the challenge but in the experience most people will have, it is not traditionally very challenging the way earlier metroids in the series were.

>>718585005
I would rather do self-imposed challenges or play modded versions of Super Metroid and SotN than ever touch Hollow Knight tho
Difficulty isnt everything

>>718585393
Lady Ethereal was one of the most kino bossfights I have ever fought and I fought a lot

>>718585572
This. I would rather play super metroid map rando 500 times than subject myself to this temu crap

>ITT: ‘h-hard means good!’
Hollow Knight overstays its welcome in a way that SotN and SM don’t. The mind-numbingly slow traversal between repetitive poke-jump-poke boss fights sucks balls. It’s not about it being “too big” so much as feeling like hiking through tar. It doesn’t help that the Knight is also just a fucking boring character, thematically and mechanically.

hk's combat is so boring though, too barebone

>>718584685 (OP)
>if you pick one thing it means you must hate the other
Im fucking disgusted by this modern tribal zoomer behaviour.

>>718585843
>modern tribal behavior
You think this is new?
>no but uh it's so much worse now-
It's always been this bad and it's never just been vidya.

>>718584685 (OP)
Hollow Knight is a extremely overrated game. If it was just a standard metroidvania, it maybe would have been better, but no, it just had to incorporate Dark Souls elements into it. The DS elements heavily clash with the metoidvania elements, resulting in a slow, boring slog of a game.

>>718585843
>boomernigger casually forgetting the nintendo/sega tribalfagging
Let me guess, you're actually 25 (aka a self hating zoomertranny)

they weren't even born yet when hollow knight came out, they just latched on to the silksong meme

>>718584685 (OP)
the real reason is ardent hollowfags are extremely annoying and shit up unrelated threads, and have slowly turned board opinion against them.

>>718586030
nah, it definitely got worse with social media

Only literal retards liked HK. It has always been babby's first metroidvania, and what's worse is that it's not even a good one.

>>718586548
It just got more visible. You're attributing a basic flaw of human nature to a generation. Hate social media and I will join you, but do not pretend retarded tribalism is limited to a single generation.

>>718586030
>It's always been this bad

I gave them the option between a solid gold bar and $50. They pick the fucking gold every time. Its like these fucking zoomers hate money or something, I don't get it.

>>718586906
Didn't some guy do this with silver a while back and all the retards picked the candy bar over the silver?

I don't think most normalfags even know how much gold is worth, or how much the price of it has risen over the past few years as we entered the completely fake and gay clown world economy.

>>718586798
In terms of people being tribalistic and thinking you hate one thing if you prefer the other? Yeah, that's not a zoomer-invented mindset and it's not any worse than it's always been, you just get to look at tiktoks showcasing the worst of humanity and shake your head until your generation succumbs the way boomers looked at facebook and shook their heads until their generation succumbed.

>>718586030
please tell me more about the past, 16 year old faggot

>>718587051
ragebaiting and engagement farming made people more aggressive towards others, zoomtards grew up watching sociopaths on their phones. Things also got worse IRL, time is not a flat circle

>>718584685 (OP)
a zoomer who played HK as a teenager or young adult is now in a totally different phase of their life. They've moved on. Like I loved TFC/TF when I was young, a damn near decade later TF2 came out and while it was objectively great, it didn't hit the same way.

>Just a few years ago it was widely considered the best metroidvania of all time.
>source: I made it the fuck up

>>718587581
Objectively TF2 is a worse game

>>718584828
Castlevania added the rpg elements

>>718585269
Souls mechanics get copied because they're good.

>>718584685 (OP)
SotN and Super Metroid have staying power due to iconic visuals and music, Hollow Knight is fairly bland in a sea of copies.

>>718587424
That's plenty enough sample size, brainlet

>>718586030
Nah it has never been this bad. People are far more advocating for their pick and do everything to push down the other instead of "Well i like them both but i can only pick one option."
>>718586386
Consolewar faggotry did exist but a lot of kids liked both Mario and Sonic and did not feel the need to battle over it. You had friends that had the other console and went to their place to play those games.
Now faggots pretend they do not like anything the "enemy" console features. "This guy owns a Playstation he can no longer be my friend." KEKW.
>>718587051
>tiktok made things worse
Way to confirm the statement.

>people unironically getting mad when games have things like limited heals that regenerate at checkpoints, because it's better to have to walk to a merchant every time you want to buy a potion, apparently.
>people unironically getting mad at games where you drop currency upon death, which gives you an actual incentive to stay alive when a lives system isn't tenable
Explain yourselves. These are both really good ideas, that caught on for a reason.

>>718584685 (OP)
Hollow Knight is a very presentation over substance game. When you look past how pretty it is you start to realize how shallow the actual game is.

>200 votes
If a steamcharts poster posted your game with 200 players you would start crying

>>718584685 (OP)
Hollow Knight would have been much better as a linear action game or even a bossrush game.

Its metroidvania elements (or its bastardization of them) are by far its weakest aspect.

>>718588248
Which means what? It's a game where you explore a big world and have an adventure.

>"zoomers"
>poll from /v/
>tiny sample size
bait

>>718588248
HK's bosses are far more nuanced with much larger movesets than Super Metroid where you basically just sit there and facetank them

>>718584685 (OP)
The other two aren't even good lol. Only troons praise them.
Not the best Metroid. Not the best Castlevania.
Hollow Knight would still beat anything you throw at it.

>>718585162
Agreed. Why put it in a poll of mediocre games, it deserves much more than that.

>>718588376
The world is big and empty, your movement isn't very interesting (muh duck tales bounce tho), combat is just a shallow 2d imitation of Souls combat, the level geometry is shockingly boring and almost entirely flat plans and blocks (I don't think the engine can even handle slops)

>>718585297
>>718585107
I never praised Super Metrord, you dumb schizos. It's also not hard but also it IS harder than SOTN, I don't know what you guys are smoking.

SOTN's problem isn't even that it's an overall easy game (easy games can be fun, only tardos have to have everything being as hard as possible) but SOTN is so easy that it actually harms the experience because all these cool monsters and shit are completely and utterly mindless to deal with. They put so much effort into making a huge cast of enemies and then they just appear for 5 seconds, die with zero fanfare or challenge and that's it. Same with all the weapons and abilities that have ZERO actual use or function because the core gameplay is utterly busted.

>>718588897
>muh movement
Who even cares though? Games are about going on a journey, not speedrun tism.

>zoomtard cries that a game is not ........LE HARD

Not an argument.

Why isn't this the trinity of metroidvanias?

Which one wins here?

>>718588961
SotN is straight broken. They did not balance that game. You naturally get to a point where you just steamroll everything. You also trivialise all of the platforming once you have the bat, and the game just becomes a series of rooms filled with easy enemies that you methodically clear out, and stack a huge inventory of items you mostly don't use.

Nerrel won.

All these people saying Hollow Knight plays like a Souls game have clearly either never actually played it or never played a souls game. Honestly probably both.

The hate is so forced.

>>718588989
Movement is how you interact with the game world, so it should be fun. HK isn't fun.

>>718589140
I like most of Nerrel's takes, but his angle that it's bad for Metroidvanias to have money systems or shops is unhinged nonsense.
>>718589217
It feels good to hit shit. It is fun.

>>718588961
Super Metroid is even worse because not only do the enemies die with zero fanfare or challenge, but you can literally just facetank and run right past them, same with all the environmental hazards. They will barely put a dent in your HP before the game throws constant HP refills and HP upgrades at you.

And it's not just the complete lack of challenge, it's also the complete lack of stakes. There is no reason to engage or care about the combat or platforming at all. You fall, you are mildly inconvenienced for a few seconds. You hit a hazard or facetank an enemy, you lose a tiny bit of health you will soon recover anyways. Just about the only thing that actually matters is bossfights (about 2% of the game) and meticulously checking every tile of every room.

I just don't find Super Metroid to have its priorities straight at all, but I guess if you're fab of scanning tiles, then you will.

Being terminally contrarian is a disease it seems.

>>718588989
Good movement can enhance a game.

>>718589142
It doesn't play like a Souls game retard, but it shoehorns in Souls mechanics (benches, dropped currency on death, having to reach your bloodstain, massively oversized interconnected world with no fast travel that is a pain to traverse) that have absolutely no fucking place in the game and actively make it worse.

>>718589264
>It feels good to hit shit. It is fun.
maybe for you, but not for me, i expect more.

>>718584685 (OP)
>metroid
oh yeah rule34 lolz
>castlevania
the anime?
>hollow knight
what is this anyway?

here the inner workings of a zoom zoom brain

>>718589142
The latest midwit gamer meme is that any influence from Dark Souls is bad. Most of these people have not played Dark Souls, or got filtered by the difficulty and proceeded to seethe about it.
Whenever you hear "rollslop" or "parryslop", what you're actually hearing is "I just want to chug potions and tank everything. Stop expecting me to have reflexes".
And here comes the part where the pretend they played Ninja Gaiden

>>718589264
>I like most of Nerrel's takes, but his angle that it's bad for Metroidvanias to have money systems or shops is unhinged nonsense.
he literally never said this..

>>718589358
Good movement like the actual awful walljumps in Super Metroid, or just turning into a bat to clear everything in SoTN?

>>718589458
There is a fast travel, you absolute moron.
You know what doesn't have fast travel? Super Metroid.

>>718589551
He definitely said picking up treasure which isn't also some kind of addition to your moveset is bad for the genre.
As if you can literally only make Metroid, and nothing else.

>>718584685 (OP)
where was this poll posted? i think where it was posted is just as important as sample size

>>718584685 (OP)
not woke enough, srry

>>718587724
maybe. But I moved on from TFC/TF too.

>>718589264
Why should metroidvanias have money systems? The entire point of the genre is exploration -> find thing that allows for greater exploration -> exploration, a cash system is superfluous and doesn't cleanly fit into the game flow, at worst it introduces mindless grinding, especially if you lock important power ups or progression items behind a shop.

>>718589531
Dark Souls is a phenomenal game, most devs just take the wrong lessons from it.
HK very obviously apes superficial elements of DaS presentation and combat without understanding the soul. It's all Dark no Soul.

>>718589706
The stag stations are so few and far, that it's oftentimes better to just to take a more direct route, unless you or your destination are directly near one.

The issue is Hollow Knight's map is like 5-10x bigger than it should be, it's just a massive bloated labyrinthine piece of shit, and even makes mapping out areas you've been a tedious slog. It also does an extremely poor job of subtly guiding the player like Metroid games do. Instead it just goes
>let's make a giant fucking labyrinthine maze, throw up 100+ gates requiring different powerups, and put random non-plot-critical bullshit behind 95% of them
so each time you get a new powerup, you do loops of the whole map checking every single gate seeing what paths can now be opened, and repeat with each and every new powerup.

As a metroidvania game, Hollow Knight is genuinely awful

>>718584685 (OP)
Hollow Knight is a great game and all but I mean it's against 2 GOATs so that's not really a fair comparison. A poll with other contemporary Metroidvanias would be a better comparison.

>right about Hollow Knight
>right about TotK
>right about gyro
can anyone stop him?

>>718590321
Why shouldn't they? What is this presumption that every game in this "genre" is supposed to be Metroid?
Hollow Knight specifically was heavily modeled on FaXanadu, I know that. Is that a bad game?

>>718590524
I like that. I like when a game expects me to go on a journey, and learn my way around the map. I don't even really like fast travel as a thing, and think it should be given as a gift in the latter half of a game, if at all.

>>718590925
You should never justify an additional system or mechanic with "why not?", that's just a gateway to bad/superfluous systems that don't make the game better. Every design choice should have intent.

>>718591108
Okay, why have money in any game? Why do RPGS even exist? Why aren't they all Megaman?
This is a nonsensical angle to take to critique something.

>buy why is there money in Hollow Knight?
So you can buy things in the shops.

>>718584685 (OP)
it was always a reddit game

>>718587904
Hahaha this fucking shtick again. No it fucking didn't. Nobody seriously considers rpg elements to be essential to a metroidvania. Yes, there are castlevania inspired metroidvanias, no, a metroidvania does not need to be inspired by castlevania to be a metroidvania (like fucking metroid for example).

The only reason the vania part exists is because Castlevania fans used the terms "classicvanias" and "metroidvanias" to distinguish between the two types of castlevania. From the get go metroidvania simple meant "a castlevania game inspired by metroid." The name just sounded cool so it stuck.

>>718584685 (OP)
not based enough, sorry.

So La Mulana is just forgotten now?

>>718591370
Lmao

>>718591081
This sums up pretty succinctly why Hollow Knight is so shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUrUceYSgmQ&t=94s

>>718584685 (OP)
I mean it has always been a shit game and i'm not a zoomer

>>718591307
>Comparing apples and oranges.
RPGs are not Metroidvanias

>>718591370
This
Based an basedpilled

>>718591373
Last time I downloaded that game from 4chan it ended up being some furfag platformer with a cub anubis

>>718591636
MOOOOOODS

>>718591373
I love La Mulana, but it will always be niche. I wish more games were willing to be as unashamedly inaccessible as it

>>718591738
It's just 2 pigs and a piglet bro

>>718584685 (OP)
Nine Sols is a BETTER metroidvania than Hollow Knight, and that game botched the exploration part.

>>718591636
L O N D O N

>>718591848
No shit, sherlock
>nigga is afraid of getting banned
kek

>>718589458
The only actual part here that I agree was dumb was the getting to your shadow part. Everything else is a non-issue or a good thing.

>>718584874
This. Autosage all threads with zoomer in the op, fucking PLEASE. This shit doesn't even make sense.

>>718592032
>Everything else is a non-issue or a good thing.

>>718585363
Because the game world is not built for Supers physics and mechanics

>>718591483
I've seen it. He has a narrow conception of what games like this are allowed to be.
I personally like that Hollow Knight has a big meandering world with superflous side areas and design that tends to make you feel very lost. That's a feature to me. Not a flaw.
Someone like Nerrel will forever refuse to see that, because he has a weird narrow conception of what "Metroidvanias" are supposed to be. As if there's a rulebook, and people can't just make a video game.
As if Metroid itself isn't kind of a footnote in the larger genre of exploratory platformers, anyway, and wasn't beaten to the chase by Xanadu and Jet Set Willy, and then followed promptly by FaXanadu, Wonderboy 3, Castlevania 2, Frankenstein on NES, Bionic Commando, and Battle of Olympus, before Super Metroid existed and anyone ever utter the words "Metroidvania" sometime in the fucking late 90's.

>>718592264
so much words for a game that fails in being fun.

>>718592384
It's more fun than SoTN. It forces you to engage with it's mechanics, instead of cheating.

>>718584685 (OP)
>Choose your favorite from these 3 games you like
>Well I suppose I like Super Metroid the most
>WTF are you saying you hate the other two!?!?!?

>>718592264
>I love tedious slogs through massive, labyrinthine samey corridors where missing even one bench (with no map, mind you) puts you at a massive disadvantage and means you lose 30+ minutes of progress upon death, and where that single death also means losing all your currency, and having to retread all the way back through that massive area again to find the exact spot you died, which must be reached before dying again, or else you lose all that progress permanently
I don't know how anyone could enjoy that, but you do you.

If you are going to take heavy inspiration from a classic game, you should at least understand why those mechanics were in place and what made those games so good. Instead, the Hollow Knight devs just mash in elements from Dark Souls and Super Metroid with no care of how well they are implemented or how it contributes to the overall experience.

It's just a shame that we never got Hollow Knight's movement, combat, and bosses in a linear action game or bossrush, instead only as a large, bloated, time-wasting piece of shit metroidvania that completely misunderstood the entire appeal of the genre.

So what are some actual fun metroidvania indie games. I’ve played the two Ender games and Nine Sols and Hollow Knight.

>>718592946
>>I love tedious slogs through massive, labyrinthine samey corridors where missing even one bench (with no map, mind you) puts you at a massive disadvantage and means you lose 30+ minutes of progress upon death, and where that single death also means losing all your currency, and having to retread all the way back through that massive area again to find the exact spot you died, which must be reached before dying again, or else you lose all that progress permanently
YES.

>>718592980
see >>718592118

>>718584830
But a lot of people voted for super metroid for some reason?

>>718593062
It feels like going on a journey, and it feels like losing has stakes and I can't just reload my save and be back where I was in thirty seconds, which is to say it feels like a real adventure.
I can articulate why I like this. All you can say is "game bad because I'm a stupid retarded casual who hates losing".

>>718584685 (OP)
>hate
nobody knows what it is
didnt the first game came out a decade ago?

>>718593170
>>718592980
It's not just that, it's mostly how poorly Hollow Knight does overall progression, in combination with that.

Hollow Knight does an extremely poor job of subtly guiding the player in any way. Instead it just goes
>let's make a giant fucking labyrinthine maze, throw up 100+ gates requiring different powerups, and put random non-plot-critical bullshit behind 95% of them
So now each time you get a new powerup, you do loops of the whole map checking every single gate seeing what paths can now be opened, and repeat with each and every new powerup.

And again, vast majority of these paths lead to near pointless filler garbage like a one-way shortcut with no cutback, a gate that leads to a previous area, a lore tidbit, a merchant that only sells a few items, a rotten egg, or a bit of currency. Very seldom is it actually a plot critical item or upgrade, or even just something you care about in the slightest.

>>718592239
Yes it is, despite using fusion graphics the map layout is completely different. The hack author just has a problem with overtuned damage values and gimmick sections.

>>718584685 (OP)
Did you conduct your poll after government mandated bed-time in China?

>>718593645
Subtly guiding the player is for pussies. Throw me into a world and let me get lost. I want that.

>>718585005
>brutally hard, particularly in its bosses, and demands you take note of your surroundings and tread cautiously because the tiniest mistakes can lead to death.
That's a funny way of spelling "throws dumb bullshit at you and forces you to backtrack through a gauntlet of respawning enemies and environmental hazards if you make a single mistake."
Tedium =! difficulty.

>>718584685 (OP)
Metroidvania fatigue
I still love genre roots and OGs, but everything else is melted into annoying slop

>>718584685 (OP)
Super Metroid is overrated. Zero Mission and AM2R are better. The majority of "Super Metroid" fans haven't played a single other Metroid game.

Symphony of the Night is overrated. Aria of Sorrow, Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin, and Order of Ecclesia are better. The majority of "Symphony of the Night" fans haven't played a single other Castlevania game.

Hollow Knight is overrated. Every single Metroid and Castlevania game is better. The majority of "Hollow Knight" fans haven't played a SINGLE other Metroidvania game.

I'm tired of hearing about fucking Super Metroid, Symphony of the Night, and Hollow Knight when so many better Metroidvanias exist.

>>718593969
>oh no. don't make me do platforming in this platformer.

>>718594073
Maybe it would help if the platforming was fun.

>>718584685 (OP)
The only thing that surprises me here is that SoTN isn't leading the poll, that game was perfect.

>>718585026
no such thing as a metroidvania, they are metroidlikes. calling it a metroidvania is like calling fps games doom of dutys.

>>718594042
>The majority of "Super Metroid" fans haven't played a single other Metroid game.
I've never once met someone who had played Super Metroid and didn't also play Zero Mission and Fusion. Yet, I've known people who played the GBA games and didn't play Super.
Fusion fans are the ones who live in a bubble as far as Metroid fans go.

>>718594042
I've played dozens and HK is one of the better ones, if not the best.

>>718584685 (OP)
It sucks ass, I could tell the first time I played it. Thats why I dropped it after the giant bug boss. The map is too big, the atmosphere is super one note, the combat felt terribly shallow with very linear character progression. Forget symphony of the night, hollow knight cant even contend with the least of Igarashi's contributions to the genre.

>>718584685 (OP)
I'd be more interested in seeing how it rates against its contemporaries

>>718585017
it's just Shazamfags trying to get ahead of the crashing wave of Silksong about to take over the board

>>718584685 (OP)
/v/ doesn’t represent the overall consensus. Even still I like all 3 games fairly equally. I’m not obsessed with ranking everything I play.

>>718594042
>Zero Mission
It's okay but it has little to no replayability for me. Super metroid just keeps getting even more fun to keep playing over and over the world is so interconnected and you keep learning new ways to traverse and skip around. Even just the basic knowledge of how to mockball super missiles makes you feel good
>AM2R
Also just okay but I think it is way too fucking bloated which is why I could only stomach playing it once, kinda ruined the atmosphere that the original had.

>>718584685 (OP)
>235 votes
lol
lmao even

>>718593952
I mean that would work fine if the game didn't have hundreds of arbitrary gates thrown up everywhere that have to be approached in a specific order using a sequence of hidden upgrades.

Also the game is extremely samey for how massive it is, rooms are just generic, unmemorable and just all blend together, even much worse than in Super Metroid, which is especially an issue as HK has a much larger map and zero form of player guidance

Additionally, there is a lot more "snaking" in HK's map design so if you need to head in a certain general direction, it's near impossible to tell which path leads there without a map, because paths constantly weave and snake around in every which direction. Seems like a minor nitpick, but really makes navigation a total fucking pain in the ass and basically a waste of time before you get the region map.

Essentially, Hollow Knight is just a game with very little thought or understanding put into its world layout from amatuer gamedevs that don't understand game design principles that have been around for decades.

>>718594042
>Super Metroid is overrated. Zero Mission and AM2R are better
if you play them once
I can't of a game that does sequence breaking better than super metroid : you're never quite sure if you're breaking the game or not

>>718592969
All the Castlevanias, all the Metroids, Blasphemous, Guacamelee, Ori, Yoku’s Island Express, Crypt Custodian, Steamworld Dig, Prince of Persia the Lost Crown, Supraland. Just look at the top rated and best selling under the metroidvania steam tag.
I feel like I’m on the only one on /v/ who actually digs into this genre past the surface.

>>718595318
>I feel like I’m on the only one on /v/ who actually digs into this genre past the surface.
>lists a bunch of surface level castlemanias and recommends the top rated/bestselling under the genre tag
>including a goddamn Ubisoft game

>>718585017
every single thread like this can be traced back to the same guy
good luck trying to figure out his motives
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/filename/eyepatchman%2A/

>>718595502
OP here, never heard of that guy in my life

>>718588961
Genuinely confused why people are arguing with you. Both are easy games but SOTN is just obviously easier than Super Metroid. Even though they’re easy I’d still say both are better than Hollow Knight.

>now
game was always shit for anyone that wasn't a shill

>>718595496
PoP is actually good.
La-Mulana, Ender Lillies, Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth, Blade Chimera, Treasure Adventure Game, how obscure do I have to get?

>>718584685 (OP)
>strawpoll that can be voted in infinitely from a dubious source
>Why aren't you mad about what random people think
Wow this sure is a post

>>718585005
HK is for faggot crossdresser discord groomers

SotN isn't even the best Igavania. It's AoS or OoE if you're a hipster. The glazing Super Metroid gets is baffling, fuck the quicksand.

>>718595880
Perfect for /v/ then.

>>718595695
it's decent but Ubisoft doesn't deserve a single cent for anything, ever.

>>718584685 (OP)
Hollow troons are delusional.

>>718585363
Even after I finished it, I'm not sure if this part of the game was a softlock that I just managed to glitch my way through
It is a fucking kino hack despite this however

>>718584685 (OP)
>I like pancakes
>wow why do you hate waffles??

gang rape hollow knightfags

>>718584685 (OP)
Sample size of 200?

>>718585786
The Knight is the first non binary video game protagonist ever show some respect.

>>718584685 (OP)
The genre is called METROID-VANIA. Therefore the metroid and the vania are higher on the social totem pole than the other games. Normalfags will sooner let their sons wear dresses and chop their dicks off than risk not being a part of the popular opinion.

>>718584828
>Yeah by fucking redditors lmao. Metroid codified the genre and will always sit at its top. It’s nothing to be mad about, all three games are good. You just can’t beat the best.
It's also selection bias, reddit skews millenial which means that zoomers aren't voting.
Data holds this to be true due to the votes going to games loved by geriatrics.

>>718584685 (OP)
It has been 8 years.

now post the reddit results

>>718594042
99% of all Super Metroid discussion is by people saying how overrated it is, at this point I'm convinced it's a parroted Youtuber opinion.

Outside of this thread in particular the only time it's brought up is by fans of another game in the series (Usually Fusion) trying to snipe it out of nowhere.
It is in fact, not overrated if anything it's underrated.

>>718584685 (OP)
man, i remember when super metroid and sotn were my favorite games and hardly anyone else knew about them or had played them
how times have changed

>>718598009
>metroidvania
action adventure platformer

>>718601037
Fusionfans are like Pokemon fans when they see Digimon threads. They both exist as timeless series by themselves and have potential to overlap but the insecurity of one makes it impossible for them to see it without putting it down.

"Fusion doesn't have the exploration depth of Super therefore I MUST destroy Super at all possible opportunity" Despite Fusion excelling at other things.

>>718601615
They hated him because he told the truth.

>>718584685 (OP)
It's never been the best metroidvania. It's never even been close.

>>718584685 (OP)

>a few years ago

Buddy, its been almost 8 years. People got tired of waiting and moved on with their lives.

See you in 2033 when Hollow Bug 3: The Sequel to the Prequel releases finally.

i really dont get the HK hate. maybe it was a bit overrated, but the hate? it's not rational. it's a good game. is it castelvania fans who are pissed another game got a moment in the sun? i don't get it.

>>718602374
Hollowtroons are annoying little runts, so it is morally correct to hate them and their game.

>>718602483
ok so is it that? is the fanbase bad? i've never seen them.

Super Metroid looks like shit even for a snes game. Why play that when you can play the GBA games?

Symphony of the Night is so boring and easy I dropped it after the reverse castle.

Hollow Knight is a game I played multiple times and I did everything except for path of pain and on top of it I watched hours and hours of content about it.

If you have a brain there's no contest, Hollow Knight is the obvious winner.

>>718602545
See the comments section in >>718591483, actual cancer.

>>718601653
I don't think about Digimon at all. Never played it, never will. It's not interesting in the slightest.

Aria is better than Symphony and it's not even close.

>>718602374
no one hates vidya
people just hate the retards praising it like blind fanboys. i hope at least thats my case

>>718602374
It pisses off autists who couldn't beat it.

>>718598009
>Normalfags will sooner let their sons wear dresses and chop their dicks off than risk not being a part of the popular opinion.
So what you're saying is that Metroid and Castlevania are for feminine men, got it.

>>718587904
Indeed, forever cursing us with the mediocre "Metroidvania" genre.

>>718584685 (OP)
>Zoomers now hate Hollow Knight
Maybe the game wasn't as popular as you thought to be

Why are HKfags always bitching about Metroid?

>>718587904
Thereby ruining the genre.

>>718603678
>maybe the game who sold millions of copies isn't popular

>>718603859
There's probably 10 times more people who have played the other two games than hollow knight, and even then, hollow knight only feels like something if you watch 10 youtube videos explaining the story and all secrets, if you play all of the three games, you won't achieve the conclusion that hollow knight is better than the other two.

i fucking hate super metroid wall jumping
fuck those little critters and fuck wall jumping
still a really good game though

>>718603678
You vastly underestimate how many 30+ are on /v/ anon.
4chan is fucking 22 years old this year.

>>718593132
Super metroud doesnt intentionally waste your time with its awful combat like hollow puke does.

>>718604942
I'm 28 if that matters, and I haven't played any of the 3 games listed there, but if I had to pick, I wouldn't pick hollow knight for the simple reason that's first a soulsshit and second, it forces you to watch some youtube video to understand what happens in the game, which shouldn't be a requirement in whatever year it released.

Nine Sols > HK

>>718604660
super metroid has my favorite wall jumping of any game

>>718602374
I hate the game, I played it and thought it was deeply flawed. The problem comes when people treat a 4/10 trainwreck as some kind of 10/10 masterpiece, that winds up with me re-rating it down to a 2/10.

I hated Undertale, but I rated that a 0/10 before looking at all the praise for it, so it didn't lose points for the fat tumblr fanbase. Generally I don't care much about other people's opinions on a game, the last one that was as bad as HK was Katawa Shojo, which was a mediocre 3/10 VN that I re-rated down to a 0/10 when people praised it.

>>718605385
fuck off furry

>>718605691
Retard take holy shit

>>718605706
bugfucker

>>718584685 (OP)
So what makes Hollow Knight so beloved? I've played it for a couple of hours and didn't really like it as much as other metroidvanias.

>>718605986
I'd like to know that too because I struggle to play it because it's just so boring.

>>718594042
holy shit the games that came out later and iterated on SotN's game design are better???? who would've guessed????
you're fucking retarded for saying DoS is better than SotN though

>>718605986
zoomer's first metroidvania

>>718585005
Mostly this. I'm a full /vr/ boomer and I can tell you that SM and SotN were only good because we had nothing better, and now they're considered good both because everyone tells you they're good and because of the good presentation on both. There's no point in playing them today other than speedrunning, where you can at least have fun with the engine which is admittedly fun to run around for both games. However, Hollow Knight is also a mostly casual game other than a few challenges in the endgame, it's just that it looks hardcore compared to the other 2.

I said this in the original thread and I’ll say it again, the third in the trinity is either cave story or Batman Arkham asylum.

>>718605986
It's very solid. I'm over 30 and played all the metroids and castlevanias prior. It's just good. People on here just think that going against popular opinion is inherently insightful.

>>718606551
You mean Rabi-Ribi? That was a weird ass typo.

>>718584685 (OP)
This is the millionth thread you've made about this.

Hollow Knight is insanely boring and uninspired, literally not worth anyone's time

>>718584685 (OP)
If you start those 3 games, you will notice how most players are stuck on the default cave.
HK is very boring and you can easily get lost because the game cant into one of the best things about the genre: exploration and being able to reach several new places depending on where you go.
HK is too restrictive. I gave up on it and played Blasphemous instead. Kino.

>>718605216
If you haven't played any of the games then why the fuck would your opinion matter in the slightest? Are you fucking retarded?

>>718605528
i love the mechanic and super metroid but i didn't like the implementation. it just felt ..off somehow and unreliable. i sucked using it. fucked up one in three or four jumps so i'm just salty for my own shittiness

Aria > SOTN
Suck my fucking dick

>>718606837
I talked about HK with a few people IRL and we all had different paths to reach the ending. Getting lost in a metroidvania is a plus, not a minus. Blasphemous is a cool game, but a shit metroidvania. All exploration there is restrictive, you have access to 3 bosses and areas only IIRC, then 3 more, and you explore mostly in the sense of backtracking to find items. There's no way you think HK is restrictive and Blasphemous is better at this.

dissonance sucks

>>718584685 (OP)
I prefer castlevania

>>718604634
>There's probably 10 times more people who have played the other two games than hollow knight
Hahaha. No.
How fucking delusional do you have to be to believe that? Going by official sale figures the opposite is likely to be true.
>if you play all of the three games, you won't achieve the conclusion that hollow knight is better than the other two.
That's a you problem. I dropped Symphony because it was boring, too easy, zero challenge, rehashed shit with the inverted castle.
I have no intention of playing Metroid, it looks bad.

>>718585005
!!! TRVTHNVKE ALERT !!!

!!! TRVTHNVKE ALERT !!!

>>718607331
>There's no way you think HK is restrictive and Blasphemous is better at this.
It is.
Because I'm stuck in the shitty cave and gave up several hours in.
I have beaten Blasphemous, Aria, Symphony and they do it better.

>>718591870
The exploration is the only good part of HK. The bosses were just tedious

>>718605986
>>718606091
>art
>music
>characters
>gameplay
>level design
>exploration
>atmosphere
>lore
Everything.
I wonder what kind of person has to ask that question. Sad.

>>718607543
Calling HK
>brutally hard
can't be a TRVTHNVKE even if he's right about everything else

I see no Hollow Knight praise anymore. Only daily hate and disbelief at popularity threads

>>718607331
Hollow Knight does an extremely poor job of subtly guiding the player in any way. Instead it just goes
>let's make a giant fucking labyrinthine maze, throw up 100+ gates requiring different powerups, and put random non-plot-critical bullshit behind 95% of them
So now each time you get a new powerup, you do loops of the whole map checking every single gate seeing what paths can now be opened, and repeat with each and every new powerup.

And again, vast majority of these paths lead to near pointless filler garbage like a one-way shortcut with no cutback, a gate that leads to a previous area, a lore tidbit, a merchant that only sells a few items, a rotten egg, or a bit of currency. Very seldom is it actually a plot critical item or upgrade, or even just something you care about in the slightest.

Combine that with the Souls shit like benches that are very few and far between (and easily missable... or broken... or locked...), losing all currency on death, very limited fast travel, and snakey twisting paths that make determining a general direction near impossible without a map, and you have one of the most tedious slogs of a game in existence.

>>718587904
It honestly did not need it

>>718607897
>So now each time you get a new powerup, you do loops of the whole map checking every single gate seeing what paths can now be opened, and repeat with each and every new powerup.
And that's a good thing.
Write down the places that are blocked so you can go there later.
>>718607897
>Combine that with the Souls shit like benches that are very few and far between (and easily missable... or broken... or locked...), losing all currency on death, very limited fast travel, and snakey twisting paths that make determining a general direction near impossible without a map, and you have one of the most tedious slogs of a game in existence.
I don't see how any of this is a problem. Do you not want any challenge in your games? It's not even a hard game.

>>718587904
In which case Hollow Knight isn't a metroidvania, since it has no RPG elements. Should be called a metroid-like.

>>718585297
Anime website faggot. Now and always

>>718608236
I think of it as a spectrum of more Metroid or more Castlevania, but ultimately it’s any navigation focused action adventure game with a progressively expanding ability set.

>>718588495
Its always bait.

>>718608217
>Write down the places that are blocked so you can go there later.
>just write down hundreds of gates in a giant labyrinthine game with a map 10x bigger than it should be where all the environments look near identical, all so you can find some pointless bullshit at the end of vast majority of the paths
Right... so much fun.

>Do you not want any challenge in your games? It's not even a hard game.
Do you not understand the difference between challenging difficulty and an incredibly bloated and tedious slog?

Just play Nine Sols instead

>>718608217
You name 20 separate issues completely unrelated to difficulty, while actually even praising the game's combat and bossfights. Then the responses are just memespouting retards:
>GIT GUD
>SKILL ISSUE
>FILTERED
>SCRUB

Why is literally all discourse nowadays like this?

>>718584685 (OP)
Tendie board. They haven't played any of these games, by the way.

>>718607848
It’s just the /v/ contrarianism cycle because silksong is finally releasing

>>718609029
hk is on switch and sotn isnt

>>718608719
>Right... so much fun.
Yes.
>Do you not understand the difference between challenging difficulty and an incredibly bloated and tedious slog?
I do. Do you?
>>718608967
What are you talking about? I didn't talk about difficulty, I talked about challenge. You don't understand the difference between the two, come back when you do and stop wasting my time.
So tiresome.

Bloodstained is better anyways

>>718584685 (OP)
>3 billion people in the world
>235 votes
Kill yourself.

>>718608217
The best comparison I can give, is that actual good challenging hardcore games are like a stern father who wants what's best for his son, or a drill sergeant who knows the importance of discipline, or a master of his craft who has no patience for those who slack off.

Whereas Hollow Knight is more like that annoying shitstain kid that everyone hates that just screeches in your ear constantly and acts like a total dickhead at all times for no reason

>>718609412
Stinky brown ESL poster, do not engage

>>718609710
Retard alert! Retard alert!

>>718609412
Allow me to reiterate:
You name 20 separate issues completely unrelated to (challenge created from) difficulty, while actually even praising the game's combat and bossfights. Then the responses are just memespouting retards:
>GIT GUD
>SKILL ISSUE
>FILTERED
>SCRUB

Why is literally all discourse nowadays like this?

I mean I agree your first playthrough is rough. If you replay it knowing what order to tackle areas, it’s a brisk 12 hour experience I’ve enjoyed many times. I’m probably autistic though.

>>718609554
That's a you problem, your description doesn't represent my experience.

>>718609808
I beat it in 14 hours my first run blind and still found it a completely tedious slog.

Game is just dogshit outside of bossfights. The map feels borderline randomly generated, and the gates arbitrarily strewn about equally so. Everything looks so samey and generic and there is just no rhyme or reason to any of the world layout, yet they still feel compelled to make exploring as grating, tedious, and full of backtracking as possible.

>>718610080
yeah, it lacks the care in other metroidvanias where the world layout aids exploration

>>718609939
Because you enjoy playing a shitty Sisyphus Simulator that completely disrespects your time like the cuckold that you are.

>>718610080
That’s every metroidvania though.

>>718610223
Ah yes, thanks for telling me about my life without ever having met me.
Or maybe it's because your description doesn't represent the game at all.

>>718584685 (OP)
I don't like the characters and the art direction, they're ugly

>>718590524
>Does not know you can place teleporter beacons at the point in the game that most of the map is explored
>Does not know of map markers
>Does not know how to use map markers
>Complains about amount of content in a game

Yeah, I'm thinking criminally retarded contrarian faggot who missed the game when it came out, then heard about it by excited fans and decided to hate it because he has not played it.
What a faggot lmao.

>>718605986
It's pretty and atmospheric. That's about it, baby's first metroidvania and baby's first hopeless setting.

>>718610303
A lot of the modern ones are like that, Metroid isn't. The caveat being that Metroid has really underwhelming, easy, and low stakes combat.

>>718610453
You get like 5 map markers and you have to pay money for them, are you serious right now you fucking retard? How does that help the problem of 100+ gates being present at any given time? That's like putting a fucking band-aid on the titanic

Even having your goddamn location show on the map is gated by a fucking charm.

Just thinking about this shit game pisses me off.

>>718590524
>It also does an extremely poor job of subtly guiding the player like Metroid games do

>"I want more handholding"

>>718584685 (OP)
Super Metroid? Why not Fusion or Zero Mission?

>>718610453
also these teleporter beacons require 900 essence, and most players are unlikely to unlock these on their first playthrough (I know I didn't, which is why I had to look it up just now), and even then it would be late in the game by that point

>>718610678
>100+ gates
Even if you explored the entire map, somehow, you would not have 100+ locked gates or doors.
What if you did not obsess like an autist over every single barred path and just picked a path you could progress in and fully explore it?
Sounds like a mental problem you have, maybe metroidvanias are not for you?

>>718610807
Because we're asking about the best one, of course.

>>718593969
Dont say that youll make the ds1 fanboys cry

>>718610823
So, you find an NPC which introduce a new currency and you get rewarded for collecting it, and you somehow did not hunt enough to get 900 essence? How the fuck do you play games? Any normal person would see that and go
>Wow, cool. I wonder what I will be rewarded with if I collect this currency. I will make an effort to collect as much ass I can and return for my reward.
Maybe metroidvanias are not the genre for you. I suggest Yoshi's wooly world, it might be more up your alley.

>>718610783
No, I just don't want a game with a fucking gargantuan map where the whole thing feels borderline randomly generated, and the gates arbitrarily strewn about equally so. Everything looks so samey and generic and there is just no rhyme or reason to any of the world layout, yet they still feel compelled to make exploring as grating, tedious, and full of backtracking as possible.

Most of these gate have random non-plot-critical bullshit behind them anyways, like a bit of geo, or a rotten egg, or a tiny bit of lore, or some optional fight, or a merchant that sells barely anything, or a one-way shortcut with no cutback.

So each time you get a new powerup, you do loops of the whole map checking every single gate seeing what paths can now be opened, and repeat with each and every new powerup.

Essentially Hollow Knight is just a game with very little thought or attention put into its world layout from amatuer gamedevs that don't understand game design principles that have been around for decades.

defences of hollow knight mostly get down to "git gud" but because the poor design does not manifest as difficulty it gets a pass

>>718611103
Sorry guy, sounds like your brain is not wired in a way that allows you to enjoy metroidvanias. The sense of being lost and slowly and gradually unlocking the ability to reach new areas, slowly having the world make sense as you make a mental map of the world is part of the draw of the genre.
If you do not like that, or cannot make sense of it, then you should stay away from the genre as a whole.

>>718610861
Whether it's 50, 75, or 100, either way it's an inordinate amount of gates strewn all across every corner of the world with no logical or coherent flow. Then every time you get a new powerup you do a big fucking loop checking every fucking gate.

Even if you somehow printed out a massive hard copy of the game map and marked every single one of the nearly 100 gates with the exact lock type as you encounter them, it STILL takes fucking ages to retread all the way to each corner of the map exhausting the few new routes on opposite ends of the world each time, most of which amount to absolutely nothing more than some geo, or a rotten egg, or a tiny bit of lore, or a merchant that sells a couple items.

Again, keep in mind, if you die even once, you lose all your fucking geo and have to retread even MORE to retrieve it. Which, if you even skipped a single bench could be an absurdly long distance out of the way.

It's just such a fucking slog, it just makes me angry thinking about it.

>>718611480
>>718611096
This is not metroidvania design, you shitstain zoomers.

Metroid is not like this. Castlevania is not like this. This is
>retarded indie devs who tried to replicate the classics completely failing to understand their core design principles

Genuinely, I refuse to believe that anyone who makes these types of comments has actually played the original Super Metroid or any of the Metroid GBA games. Hollow Knight is a disgusting bastardization of their design.

metroidvania is when there's a big map. the bigger the map is the more metroidvania it is

>>718604952
That's because Super Metroid doesn't even HAVE combat, unless you're a retard who counts shooting at things sometimes as combat. It's just an exploration game.

>>718584685 (OP)
i played it and it was mid bruh

>>718611480
Hollow Knight is way too large, samey, and nonsensical to make a mental map. There's a reason why all the best metroidvanias have small but dense maps

Hollow Knight is just a big randomly generated lavyrinth with gates and locks strewn about.

It feels like they made a linear action game, but then just hit the big "metroidvania randomize my shit up" button that just smashes and contorts all their levels together in one giant frankenstein amalgamation.

>>718611331
More things that didn't happen for 5 dollars please.

>>718613272
teleporters are the typical lazy fix for a large directionless metroidvania (see: sotn) but hollow knight is so large and slapdash even that can't save it

>>718612003
It's your inability to make sense of the world. I know I had no issues, and I assume the majority of players likewise had little issue.
It's hard at first, but the game has visually distinct zones that has its own music and set of enemies. This helps you keep track of where you are in the world at any time as you familiarize yourself.
While I cannot fathom how one would be unable to make sense of the world in a playthrough, I am willing to accept that some people have some limitations that prevents them from making mental maps.
Thats why I suggest you try another genre.

>>718612202
>It's not because I say it's not.
Get a load of this guy lmao

For me, it's Infernax

Backtrack'em-ups

>>718613272
It's crazy to me that you openly admit that you are too mentally deficient to navigate the map of hollow knight, and that you think it is a valid criticism of the game.

>>718613790
It's this entire thread.

>>718613891
See >>718610080
I beat the game significantly faster than most people and without help of guides and walkthroughs like all zoomers use.

And saying
>yes, the game looks incredibly samey and generic but ackchyually the zones have different background colors and different background music, HAH!
is not some own. You just sound fucking retarded.

It's meant to be a big, stupid, long, meandering, time-wasting, tedious puece of shit game which is why it takes most players 40+ hours to beat despite only having a few hours of unique content.

>>718614252
It's crazy to me that you are an illiterate dumbfuck.

And no, nobody is memorizing 100 gates, their exact locations, and their exact lock types in a game with a map that is massively larger than Super Metroid while being much less visually distinct, and extremely generic and samey.

That's why average play times are so long despite actual unique content being so sparse.

>>718614691
>nobody is memorizing 100 gates
There are like 3 doors in the game you can't immediately go through

>>718614895
Yes, just pretend to be retarded, good idea.

>>718614501
If you beat it in 14 hours, that just means you beelined for the main quest objectives without even a thought to explore the world. Maybe the issue lies in your autism that caused you to play an open ended game as if it was a linear game.
You did hornet, found the claws, entered the city, stumbled upon the resting grounds, went directly for the mask markers on the map and fought the hollow knight. Then you put the game down, said done and thought it was shit because there were barriers in the way for you to reach the map markers.

The fault lies in your mentality. You wanted the game to cater to your preferences and assumptions, then got pissy when it didn't. Then you have the nerve to sperg out about your shitty experience here. Actual retard behavior.

>>718584685 (OP)
Hollow Knight is a shit western game.
>captcha:DAJAP

>>718610080
It’s 12 hours for 100% completion btw.

>>718594259
>calling fps games doom of dutys.
That sounds amazing. Were you trying to coin that just now?

Those damn kids and their doom of dutys rooty tooty pount and shooties.

>>718584685 (OP)
>widely considered

No. It has its minority of loud dicksuckers and that's it.

Also reality check: Super Metroid and SotN are the two games that define the genre and they will realistically never be defeated for that reason alone. A new game would have to be 100 times better than them to beat them because they're the sun source of metroidvanias, everything else is a shadow they cast.

>>718615263

Patently false unless you're speedrunning. I played Hollow Shit for 20 hours and didn't even reach the halfway point.

>>718615754
12 hours if you know the optimal route.

>>718615860
On replays. Just saying the first playthrough is a slog, but replays I’ve found more enjoyable.

>>718615079
I played pretty much the entire game blind. Completion was 64% which was just what I found along the way trying looking for main path progression (it all looks the same though). I don't know if that's high or low, and I don't really care as I only finished it just so I could uninstall and never have to think about it again.

Just about the only thing enjoyable aspect of the game was the bossfights, and thankfully I didn't struggle much with them, otherwise the backtracking to them would quickly have become grating. The regular enemies are fine at first, but when you retread the same area a dozen times, you just groan and dread the stupid sacks of shit.

Just so much in Hollow Knight exists for the sole purpose of wasting your time and spitting in your face. It's one of the only games I've played where it seems the devs just straight up hate the player and wallow in their misery.

It's not about barriers to reach map markers, it's about barriers *everywhere*, the entire game is just gate after gate after gate after gate, and you find a powerup, then you do a big fucking loop and check every gate, maybe you marked a couple that seemed important, maybe you remembered the vague area where a few were, but that's all you can do, otherwise it's just retreading the same shit over and over again like Groundhog Day.

>The fault lies in your mentality.
Sure, I wanted a good game that respected my time and had coherent world design, I did not get that.

>>718584685 (OP)
Wow, there are only 235 zoomers in the world?

>>718605986
It's just so good man... Like, SOUL... The atmosphere... the characters... the music... SOUL...

>>718610080
FILTERED

>>718616053

The thing that killed my interest in HK, and ultimately made me abandon my playthrough, was the incredibly slow and boring trickle of upgrades. You have one weapon with like two moves, get a purely numeric damage upgrade on it every 10 hours or so, you have like two fucking spells total, a bunch of charms that barely do anything. The game just doesn't want to give you upgrades. In a genre where permanent upgrades are your main reward for exploring.

>>718584685 (OP)
I've never played it and the only Metroidvania series I really enjoy are Metroid and Castlevania.

It has nothing to do with gameplay, becuase I think the gameplay in all Metroidvanias is bad relative to other genres with good gameplay like action games. Especially newer ones that are more linear and combat focused.The art style and aesthetic along with level design, exploration, and atmosphere are the main reasons I play this genre. Not for the simplistic and easy gameplay. Pretty much every other Metroidvania has dog shit art and the only Castlevania/Metroid games that had a good art style recently where Blasphamous and Bloodstain.

If your character looks like pic related, I won't even bother playing your indie shit. I instantly catagor8ze it in my mind as shit and skip.

Hollow Knight is mediocre as fuck as a metroidvania, I have no fucking clue why retards started glazing it

Man /v/'s taste is so fucking dogshit.

Hollowtroons are just as annoying and distasteful as deltatroons.

I'd go as far as to say they are one and the same.

>>718607714
You haven't done PoH all bindings pantheon and it shows.

>>718620350
>game is hard when you use weakest weapon with every handicap in place
woah... and super metroid would be hard if you skip every single upgrade you possibly can

>>718620526
???
You say this as if you couldn't skip upgrades in HK, yeah PoH all bindings with no upgrades makes it even harder, retard.

>>718612464
>It's just an exploration game.
No way? For real life?

>>718607701
>HK's art
>good
>HK's lore
>good
lmao

>>718584685 (OP)
>hollow knight 28 votes
why would anyone choose that glorified flash game
it's probably the dev team

>>718605385
Honestly yeah, the start is a little slow but at least I’m not bored and wandering around samey caves

>>718620692
skipping upgrades in HK barely makes a difference as your sense of power and progression is so minimal compared to Super Metrodi

>>718612464
Other M tried but that game was full of retarded decisions, namely the NES layout for a fucking 3d game.

best metroidvania of the year coming through

>>718604952
it wastes your time with wall jumps and fucking shinespark though, Super Metroid is just an average game, not even close to being the best Metroid game either

>>718621279
Thanks for confirming you haven't played HK. I knew this from your initial reply, but the reassurance is always helpful.

>>718620937
>Metroid lore
>Castlevania lore
Don't even get me started, retard.
Yes, HK has good art and lore, far superior to the other two games.

>>718594259
>calling it a metroidvania is like calling fps games doom of dutys.
I call them Doom Nukems

>>718621573
seethe

you are absolutely fucking retarded and delusional if you think HK has anywhere near the level of power gain and progression as Super Metroid

>>718584685 (OP)
hey, thanks for reminding me of that, OP.
I think I can beat super Metroid after work in one go.

>>718621573
They're 100% correct dipshit. The HP and damage upgrades you get in Hollow Knight are minimal, your HP doesn't even double from its base value when you get all upgrades. Metroid meanwhile gives you over 15x your base HP value through upgrades, doing Metroid without all upgrades makes an insane difference in difficulty while in HK it's just a minor inconvenience.

>>718617519
1, 2, 3, and 6 are among my favorite games of all time

>>718588212
I think the currency as a whole is bad in Hollow Knight, and only exists so you have something to lose on death because Dark Souls did it.
Everything you buy in Hollow Knight should have been found out in the world by exploring, but instead you find a bunch of trinkets that you need too sell for cash at one specific store then you can go buy stuff. It's tedious shit that adds nothing to the game.

>>718592264
>As if Metroid itself isn't kind of a footnote in the larger genre of exploratory platformers
It named the genre. You not liking the name is irrelevant

>>718620350
You're right that I didn't. I just looked it up and it apparently was DLC. I beat the game when The Grimm Troupe came out. Game was easy. If they added super hard stuff later on, good, but the base game is still easy unless they made massive changes.

>>718584685 (OP)
It's good, but too long for a metroidvania. Silksong will be even more bloated.