Thread 718745641

>Heihachi came back twicie
>Bison came back
>Terumi got resurrected in the BlazBlue gacha through Hazama, which was also gonna have Ragna, the previous MC, come back
>Mortal Kombat will either just revive people, or use alternate versions like MK11 an MK1
Does Death even mean anything in a fighting game?

Well there's Kliff from Guilty Gear, and that's about it really.

>>718745641 (OP)
No, and that's why they're going the way of cape comics irrelevancy.

nothing matters in tekken
you had jin going hitler and literally starting ww3 and two games later he turns into a fucking angel

>>718745641 (OP)
Fighting game devs care about fighting game lore about as much as the average person does

It's almost as if fighting games don't need a story and in fact the story can even be harmful to the game

>>718745641 (OP)
I mean, I get wanting death to have consequences but you also can't remove popular characters from a roster permanently

>>718747260
>yeah, sorry...

>>718745641 (OP)
The original King and Armor King died for good, so there's that. But both got a replacement.

>>718750781
kuma too

>>718745641 (OP)
3 times actually

>>718750781
What?? King and Armor King is dead?

What about Jack and Silver Jack?

>>718745641 (OP)
>Cervantes came back twice in the old timeline and once in the new timeline (there was not even an attempt to explain the second old timeline resurrection)
>Astaroth came back either once or twice in the old timeline depending on how you look at it (the SCV version is a copy without the memories of the original) and once in the new timeline
>Siegfried turned into Nightmare twice and Nightmare found new ways to appear even after Siegfried completely shook off Soul Edge's influence, first as a disembodied suit of armor and then by possessing another man
>but when Sophitia died, she died for real and stayed dead until the timeline reset (no, the impostor doesn't count)

>>718745641 (OP)
Why the fuck did they give him that Steve Harvey ass mustache instead of his original one?

>>718752384
>another man
wasn't that raphael

>>718752556
Pretty much, but it's the same story as with Amy and Viola. They share VAs, some chunks of character models, and it's heavily implied in the lore but with no definitive 100% confirmation.

>>718745641 (OP)
No, because players won't buy if their main isn't in.

guilty gear did it really well

bedman died in xrd, so people thought he wasn't going to return in the next game, but then they brought just the bed for strive

the lore implications are really sweet too, his wish to protect his little sister was so strong that, when he died, his mechanical bed inherited his will, so in a way he still keeps watch over her as a guardian angel (which is why the character is called "bedman?" with a question mark)

>>718747260
Hitler was a misunderstood angel

>>718753182
It is a pretty cool bed

>>718753182
I remember when people joked about bedman returning without the man, and the madlads at arcsys actually did it

>>718745641 (OP)
>Does Death even mean anything in a fighting game?
Not really. As we've seen with Geese Howard, even if you kill a character there's nothing stopping the company from having them appear in a sequel with a halo over their head or calling them a "Nightmare" character.

>>718753375
geese at least they tried to justify with the jin scrolls and the nightmare was just a nightmare

>>718753182
he was always a dogshit character with a stupid kit and bringing him back in any way is twice as fucking dumb

>>718745641 (OP)
it's the precursor of the gacha problem
>I like this character
>tf do you mean he's gone forever
even if you just 1to1 reuse his move set there's the problem of
>why not just make him playable again
also usually it's not JUST the move set that makes a character appealing but also his aesthetics (visuals, sound, etc) so there's never a decent replacement

Leaving out the most iconic characters is always a bad decision.
Who cares about the "plot" in fighting games anyway.

>>718745641 (OP)
>Does Death even mean anything in a fighting game?
Option1: permanently remove a character from the game just to appease a vocal minority of retards who care about the lore too much.
Option2: not throwing away years of animations, resources and player enjoyment of the game

>>718745641 (OP)
Death means nothing in any long running series.
Ever read the Spiderman comics? Don't, btw. But characters constantly die, it's treated extremely seriously, trying to tug at your heartstrings, then they come back many issues later and the explanation for why is complete horseshit.
The status quo must always be kept. There are certain characters people just expect to be there.

>>718745641 (OP)
Bro, they're fighting games...

desu heihachi might as well be gone after they turned him into a stance character

>>718747260
>you had jin going hitler and literally starting ww3 and two games later he turns into a fucking angel
I see nothing wrong with this.

>>718754416
most of heihachi's moves got new animations in 8 anyway

>>718745641 (OP)
Geese is still dead in City of the Wolves.

>>718754416
Option 3: Have the character playable but still canonically dead like I dunno, Kazumi Mishima?

>>718752384
Well out of those characters, only Sophitia can be counted as human

>>718753182
>then they brought just the bed for strive
I really enjoyed reading this sentence, thanks anon

>>718745641 (OP)
No. It's a fucking fighting game. Every single game is a self contained universe

>>718745641 (OP)
-Capcom isn't moving from the World Warriors unless there's something drastic.
-Heihachi is the most popular Tekken character. Part in that's he's entertaining and part because they fucked Jin up character wise.
-Death in MK has been wonky since Ultimate MK3 after they brought Johnny Cage back.

>>718755678
Amazing

>>718745641 (OP)
Nobody gives a fuck about the story. Cool, bad ass characters is all that matters. Now putting staple franchise-defining characters like Akuma and Heihachi behind DLC paywall, now that's some bullshit and why I've been buying my fighting game codes through grey market cd-key sites. Fuck Capcom and fuck Bamco.

>>718745641 (OP)
Change in franchises is limited to the first five or so years during which the IP gets new media, then it stagnates and all developments are locked in place forever.

>>718745641 (OP)
It's a fighting game. Nobody wants to lose their main. Hence why games like Virtua Fighter is "just a fighting" game that doesn't hassle with story, to preserve the gameplay.

>>718752384
Soul Calibur 5 was an absolute mess in general. Sophitia got off easy by dying in that plot.

>>718759424
Has a newcomer inheriting a retired character's moveset ever succeeded in winning over the players? Specifically when the newcomer isn't just a thinly veiled clone of the original.

>>718759409
Blame the players themselves. Capcom tried to move on with SFIII.

>>718755553
The whole game is dead so nobody cares.

>>718749706
He genuinely feels like edgier yet somehow smarter Sasuke lmao

>>718759637
I guess if a game uses the same core cast more than once the players will never learn to move on.

>>718745641 (OP)
Replacing a character with "the same but different" function only works if that character wasn't that popular in the first place. Nobody gives a fuck about T Hawk so no one cares if he gets replaced by Lily. I like Guy but most people don't care so he got swapped out for Zeku and then Kimberly.
If you try it with someone people actually like, like Magneto or Sakura or whatever, then people don't like it. If you try it with someone like Ryu or Ken you're committing game suicide.

>>718752492
it got burned off in the lava, duh.

>>718760543
But he didn't fall in the lava.

>>718761056
yeah, only his mustache did.

>>718759954
>If you try it with someone like Ryu or Ken you're committing game suicide
Capcom almost did

>>718762060
Is anyone honestly that invested in Ryu's character?

>>718745894
Justice too

>>718752384
isn't she in but with a mask in 5?

>>718753182
They really should have named him Manbed.

>>718762159

Apparently so since they can't make a Street Fighter or Capcom crossover fighter without him.

>>718762719
that was Soul Calibur skinwalking as her iirc

How did he survive the dip anyway?

>>718759634
Hwoarang was more loved and quite different.

>>718762883
Elysium disguised itself as Sophitia to manipulate Patroklos. Patroklos had a huge oedipus complex.

>>718745641 (OP)
Why do they bother to kill characters in the first place?

>>718761056
apparently , kazuya didn't see the tekken monk rescuing him whereas he was watching heihachi falling in lava

>>718763186
And also a siscon.
but can you blame them? I mean look at them, they're both literally perfect and only a Malfested would say otherwise.

>>718745641 (OP)
In Fatal Fury (not KOF)
It matters.

Geese died in Fatal Fury 3 and canonically they never brought him back.

consider what matters more in a fighting game:
a. some plot I'm not paying attention to
b. playing as the character I want to play as

>le + on block man returned
>Charlie Nash still dead

>>718764154
Nash exsists to die

>>718745641 (OP)
No. Count all the people who permanently died from plot Shun Goku Satsu, then count how many survived it.

Is Jun actually alive or was it just Jin seeing shit?

>>718745641 (OP)
persistent death in a fighting game story was always retarded since people want to play as their favorites

>>718765410
Yep. She was in a coma after beating Ogre.

>>718745641 (OP)
fighting games don't need a story that progresses. people want to play their character.

>>718766164
At least she has the excuse of never leaving a body. Kaz literally threw Heihachi in the lava and he had no devil gene to bullshit him out of it like it happened to Kaz the last time.

Didn't Heihachis dad die and never came back and probably won't.

Donpachi or whatever.

>>718745641 (OP)
Well MK did try killing off characters but people freaked out when they couldn't play as Mileena anymore

>>718767083
Jinpachi is a final boss monster and those usually don't return since their point in the story is to be killed.

>>718753324
I dunno, I find the head of the bed very weird

I prefer the bedman from the concept arts

>>718759634
Barely anyone remembers this, but Astaroth started out as a clone of Rock.

>>718745641 (OP)
Heihachi IS Tekken.

>>718763837
And yet he does this.

>>718753269
>>718754904
*tips fedora*

>>718745641 (OP)
fighting games should have never went 3d
looks awful every time

No. A popular character is bound to be resurrected, as it attracts fans back to the series they liked.
But even if their "death" is softly known as temporary, just the risk of stake of having said character be missing for a couple of instalments is ""risk"" enough to generated engagement among consumers and fans in general.
Of course, when repeated to much, especially involving the same characters, it gets old fast, e.g., Heihachi dying and returning for a third time anytime soon.

>>718745641 (OP)
>Has been stated since the 90s he can infinitely revive as long as psycho power exists in the world
>WHY DOES BISON KEEP COMING BACK???
you dumbfucks keep pretending you care about the lore but you really dont

>>718745641 (OP)
no, but their story modes have always been capeshit tier dogcrap and all the latest entries are extra trash that only stockholmed retards still play anyways so who cares. Let the cattle enjoy wasting money on returning characters for the 1000th time.

>>718770824
Still weaker than a little girl

>>718749654
You always have an option to replace a character with sexy female version of them. Honestly more games should do that.