Thread 718862672

Why did he never question the bullshit of Liquid possession by Ocelot? His IQ is 180

>>718862672 (OP)
He was just too tired at that point.

a 90 iq retard like kojima can not properly write an 180 iq character. there is a bottleneck.

>>718862672 (OP)
It was bullshit but he believed it

>>718862672 (OP)
Ocelot is a double triple quadruple schizo agent shitposter

>>718862672 (OP)
He has a 190 spacial IQ but iq is an aggregate system, he has a linguistic iq of 90. thus the phrasing everything in questions.

He literally questions it the first time Ocelot pretends he's liquid.

Why did everyone believe Solidus' body was Big Boss even though he was missing the wrong eye?

>>718862672 (OP)
he didn't care about it at that point and just wanted to kill him

>>718863064
All mgs characters are dislexic, so it looks right.

>>718863029
he wasn't pretending there, the guy was actually being possessed in 2
notice how his hand is made of flesh in 2 while in 4 it's a mechanical prostesis
he got rid of Liquid's arm between games but kept up the charade after learning how to behave like him

>>718862672 (OP)
Ocelot actually was possessed by a ghost during MGS2. His dad is a ghost.

Everyone in MGS4 acted like they received a lobotomy.
No one was in character.

>>718863007
questions?

i meaaaaaaan

he fought psycho mantis in mgs1
saw meryl get posessed
saw a cyborg ninja going apeshit

he'd believe the ocelot liquid shit at that point anyways

I liked the traumatized whores who get naked and mix components of FOXHOUND and Cobra enemies.

>>718863029
He actually was possessed in 2 but got the arm replaced with a replica and then pretended to be possessed afterwords.
>but why?
Kojima

>>718862672 (OP)
Does it ultimately matter if he's possessed or merely pretending?

>>718863662
He's probably gotta know about Ocelots father too, even if he doesn't know they are related.

>>718863516
Probably because everyone but Otacon and Snake were playing theatrics to act for the Patriots and eventually fool the system.
Drebin, Rat Patrol and Ocelot (for the first half) were directly or indirectly taking orders from the Patriots. Roy and Rose were playing dumb to hide Raiden's kid from him and the Patriots. Ocelot (for the other half), Eva and Naomi were acting retarded to keep the Patriots distracted from the reak goal. Raiden, Big Boss, Snake and Vamp were just old, dying, depressed or all of the above, so they didn't really care aside from finishing their rivalries and stop the Patriots.

>>718864108
>actual posession in2
>retconned in 4 to be hypnosed

Lmao kojima god damnit

The achilles heel of smart people is their inability to fully grasp just how stupid something can truly can be, Ocelot's plan was so retarded it became brilliant

>>718862802
/thread

>>718862672 (OP)
Because the entirety of mgs4 is kojima screaming nano machines while piss drunk and swinging a bottle around. Anything he hits with the bottle got retconed

>>718862672 (OP)
Why would he? He fought actual psychics before, probably knew Ocelot's dad was a medium or heard stories and reports of stuff like that. Just assumed it was some more weird psychic bullshit

>>718864420
No it wasn't a retcon. He was actually being possessed by a ghost through his arm. But between 2 and 4 he had it removed and exorcised and got a robot arm. But he used hypnosis to implant a Liquid personality into his brain in order to keep tricking everyone. For some reason. I forget what his plan was actually.

>>718866132
>I forget what his plan was actually.
It's ok so did Kojima

>>718862672 (OP)
Liquid genuinely was possessing Ocelot during MGS2.

>>718866298
I doubt he ever had an idea for Ocelot through most of the games aside from him always being a double quadruple agent for someone every time. By 4 it was just Liquid/Big Boss' plan of endless global war. Wild West all over the world, or whatever the fuck he says in 4.

was it foxdie that make snake age so rapidly or some clone failsafe they put in him?

>>718866670
All three clones aged rapidly, with Solidus having it the worst.

>>718866132
>But between 2 and 4 he had it removed and exorcised
Bravo Kojima

>>718866670
Originally it was because he was cloned from a 60 year old man so he's from "old stock"
Then it was retconned and it was just genetically engineered to age fast.

>>718862672 (OP)
he's well past the midwit bellcurve so he just takes ridiculous scenarios in stride

>>718866752
>>718866790
so foxdie literally did nothing to him after mgs1?

>>718866670
He literally says it's Werner Syndrome when talking to Meryl.
The FoxDie thing will just make have a sudden heart attack at any moment if not deactivated.

>>718866827
Basically correct. In MGS4 there’s a subplot about how it will mutate into becoming contagious so that Snake is a walking bioweapon, but it doesn’t go anywhere.

>>718866964
>>718866956
God all these years I always thought it was Foxdie that made him age in 4.

>>718866827
Yup. FOXDIE was set to incubate at a completely random value that no one knew, but then it just didn't and Snake died from old age.

>>718866964
That was why he was gonna kill himself at the end, to prevent that. But then Big Boss told him some bullshit that Naomi or Sunny or someone did meant he didn't need to worry about it.

>>718863391
>he got rid of Liquid's arm between games but kept up the charade after learning how to behave like him
What's the point of this? Doesn't it needlessly complicate and stretch out the process of Liquid returning? Feels like Kojima made a bizarre switcheroo because people guessed the story ahead of time.

Liquid was too good a villain to kill off in MGS1. I wonder how the series would have been if he somehow survived.

>>718866132
>your old boss possesses you through his arm that was transplanted onto you
>decide to just cut it off and get another one offscreen
honestly, that's pretty funny.

>>718866548
4 was about destroying the robo Illuminati, in his heart of hearts Ocelot was a freedom loving patriot. He was just a psycho about how he went about it.

>>718866964
>>718867074

>>718867074
>>718867287

Yeah I’m not a fan of the choices MGS4 makes regarding Foxdie and Liquid, among other things like making the MGS3 crew into the Patriots. The game has some great scenes and neat ideas but overall I had my most enjoyment from its stupid online multiplayer.

Because even Kojima didn't know about it for the first 3 games

>>718862672 (OP)
>His IQ is 180
OP...

>>718867287
In the first draft of MGS2 he was just gonna have Liquid be the villain after faking his death from FOXDIE. But then MGS2 became really crazy and meta. The arm thing was on element I was never sure about. I've heard some people claim it was meant as a parody or a joke which is as good explanation as I can think of so fuck it, yeah whatever. But then when he need a villain for the grand finale in 4 he was kinda fucked and had to just use Ocelot mixed with Liquid's mind. It does seem he really regretted not bringing Liquid back as just a guy, ghost, robot, zombie, whatever. Having the final fight in 4 with Ocelot is great but it doesn't work as well as it would have if it was the actual Liquid, or even like Big Boss.

>>718867287
It's behind the scenes stuff but the japanese voice actor for Revolver Ocelot died mid production so they had to rush some kind of excuse to make Liquid "in control" all the time.
The english dub didn't get that memo so it's still Zimmerman instead of Cam Clarke who voiced Liquid Ocelot.

>>718867614
>2031
>MGS4 remake
>BB unit completely overhauled, better backstories, more earlier encounters and buildup
>plot points tweaked to not be so retarded
>game ends as it should have with Otacon and Snake getting executed

>>718862672 (OP)
>Why did he never question the bullshit of Liquid possession by Ocelot? His IQ is 180
Snake was never much of a thinker, he just rolled with the punches and dealt with whatever shit life threw his way. Plus he had already fought a psychic in Shadow Moses. After witnessing something like that, it ain't a stretch of the imagination to entertain the possibility of spiritual possession.

>>718867287
It's never really explained to the basic theory that the fanbase came up with is that Liquid's spirit kept possessing Ocelot in random circumstances and making a mess out of everything, so, with the advancement of artificial muscular prosthesis, he had Liquid's arm removed and replaced it with one of those advanced prosthesis to regain control of himself. But he also figured that when properly managed, Liquid would be enough of a wildcard that the Patriot AIs wouldn't be able to predict his plans, so he submitted himself to hypnotic therapy (therapy given by who?) in order to believe he was Liquid, and thus act more like him and become unpredictable enough to foil the Patriot's plans once and for all. This is just headcanon tho.

>>718862672 (OP)
He learned it's best not to question anything and just go along with it

>>718868179
>BB unit completely overhauled, better backstories, more earlier encounters and buildup
Also fully naked, just like Kojima had originally wanted them to be.

>>718868898
The latex was hotter

I’m a simple man but i just find it cool that Liquid was able to learn about the Patriots thru Ocelot throughout the plot of mgs2 which prompt him to repossess ocelot at the end to chase after them in the metal gear ray although he doesn’t question solidus’ involvement besides him just bringing up that he gets possessed by liquid from time to time

is mgs4 playable on pc?

>>718868916
How bout translucent latex then?

>>718868991
Yes, through emulation. RCPS3. Best played at 30fps locked.

>>718869071
why not with 60?

>>718868179
>game ends as it should have with Otacon and Snake getting executed
That's a stupid ending

So let me get this straight. Ocelot manipulated everyone in every single game? He's been the background antagonist this entire time, why?

METAL... GEAR...?

>>718869767
>Will of the boss
>Which is his mom
He's a mommas boys

>>718869364
You need a pretty powerful hardware to brute-force this and there will still be instabilities because, from what I've heard, emulation of this specific title isn't all that stable yet and it's super demanding.

>>718869972
It's not a title issue but an emulation issue. The PS3 was shit hardware wise, powerful but shit.

>>718869972
how powerful? got a 7800x3d and a 3080

>>718869767
it was all for big boss cock

>>718870313
I think you might be good. You'll possibly experience some rare drops below 60, but otherwise I think you'll be good.

>>718862672 (OP)
it doesn't matter if he's liquid or ocelot, Snake's mission is to stop him. All there is, is the mission. Didn't you learn from MGS3

>>718862742
lmao this, he is probably full of shit at that point.

>why is old snake getting stressing over beautiful women lol XD
>17 years later
>young pretty thing gets on the bus
>I get both stressed AND depressed

>>718869767
Yes... Mr. President.

>>718870363
alright

/v/ doesn't understand the rule of kino

>>718862672 (OP)
Better question, why would he give 2 shits about The Boss when all he knows about her is that she was such a stupid fucking cunt that she couldn't even explain her philosophy in a cogent manner and led to everyone fucking the world over to "fulfill her dream" and it was only saved by a schizophrenic Ruskie who was just pretending to be retarded but really just wanted to fuck over the Boss' dream because he was yandere for BB's dick.

>>718863064
That was a translation error. In Japan eyes are read from right to left.

>>718866132
>I forget what his plan was actually.
Tricking Patriot AI into thinking he got completely possessed by Liquid.
One of Patriot AI (JD) thought he'd eventually destroy one of five Patriot AIs (GW) so he could be the new human leader of the Patriots, which is something JD wanted so JD aided his quest to destroy GW. Liquid hates Big Boss so it was natural for him for wanting to be the big bad leader of the globalist Illuminatis.
What JD didn't know was that Ocelot was faking it, and he made sure to aid Naomi and Eva before brainwashing himself, so they could sneak-in a virus that would destroy all the other AIs including JD, when trying to kill GW.
"Big Boss world = free world without illuminati but total chaos and wars", so Sunny fixed that by making sure that virus kept part of AI that maintained infrastructures to keep the world from going to shit.

>>718869767
>He's been the background antagonist this entire time
Protagonist actually, he did nothing wrong in working to bring down the patriots.

>>718870624
Snake ultimately doesn't, he just happened to be the only guy to understand what she meant outside of Venom maybe. Circumstances just put him in a position to stop Big Boss and tge Patriots.

>>718870624
DNA. It's a meme passed on from Big Boss.

>>718871018
You mentioned venom? The schizos are coming.

>>718867669
>among other things like making the MGS3 crew into the Patriots
I kinda liked that part. People seem to forget it a lot, but the prequel section of the series is about the villains. It's not interesting if they start out as cackling evil-doers. The Boss's good intentions getting warped through time is the whole point of it, you need good and relatable characters following their conscience into ultimately villainous roles to make that stick.

>>718868179
>Otacon and Snake getting executed
For what exactly?

>>718870624
i always thought boss's ''charisma'' and ''philosophy'' being the whole driving point of the series was the most retarded and forced narrative in the entire franchise

>>718871018
>outside of Venom maybe
how so?

>>718871283
Singing a US navy boat full of staff and crashing a giant ship into new york, they got blamed for the events of MGS2

>>718871848
There's some lore about her basically solo'ing World War 2 so she became le epic legendary hero. Then Snake dabbed on her and he inherited the epic title even though some of his own soldiers were better than him.

>>718871217
>>718867669
But you needed to play peace walker in order to get the full story. Unsure where Portable Ops fits

>>718867669
Mgo was the peak of online games, I remember that I spent at least 5500 hours, I never played a game so much

>>718872143
PO is before PW and shows how Big Boss learns to command soldiers and gets the funds to create MSF

>>718869570
>>718871283
They were wanted terrorists at the beginning of MGS2 already, the original ending of MGS4 had them being executed which is why you had Here's to You as the ending song, it was licensed for that purpose and left in even though it makes no sense with the actual ending.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOVkYAxHvkk

>>718870624
her philosophy, if you can even call it that, makes perfect sense it's just simplistic. everyone misinterpreting it is a retarded way to force reverence while still having some big convert conflict for future storylines.

>>718863029
>>718863391
Why did he take all the spiritual shit out of the game? He kept some of it with psycho mantis being there, but I would’ve preferred liquid taking over ocelot and having cam Clarke reprise his role, and vamp just being a vampire.

>>718872775
>They were wanted terrorists at the beginning of MGS2 already
I thought they were an internationally recognized philanthropy group who's sole purpose was to make the world more peaceful by preventing the proliferation of metal gears.

>>718872583
What do you think of fox hunt? Apparently is cloak and dagger but both teams get cammo and one of the teams has to collect their weapons from the map.

>>718862672 (OP)
Because it was actual possession as evidenced by Ocelot being the son of The Sorrow. Between MGS2 and 4, Ocelot removes the arm and gets a bionic one as you can see in the final battle of MGS4. It's been 17 years. You retards STILL don't get it, lmao.

>>718863391
not quite. It's actually sort of a discrepancy. His hand was cut off just above the wrist in MGS 1 and Liquid's arm is grafted there more or less but just refers to it as his arm.
In MGS 4 the artificial graft you see connects Ocelot's arm to Liquid's hand.
I don't give a shit.

>>718871283
Terrorism
Destroying army buitl metal gears worldwide is technically illegal, as well as the tanker incident which was officially declared to still be Snake's fault in-universe

>>718864108
>>718864420
>>718866132
>>718866298
>>718866548
>>718867410
>>718866773
>>718867325
>>718870741
he sucked liquid's soul into his body and threw the rotting hand away. he just lets liquid use his body.

>>718862672 (OP)
Anon he fought a psychic in MGS1. By MGS4, he just didn't give a shit anymore.

>>718872143
The other games give you the 'full' story but I think MGS3 stands on it's own perfectly well to explain why big boss and company got up to their shenanigans. It's pretty easy to draw a line from big boss refusing to shake the president's hand to outer heaven.
>Unsure where Portable Ops fits
"wow making my own military nation sure seems like a cool idea also I met gray fox"

>>718873005
The cypher takes a picture of snake and leaks it online and the patriot controlled outlets spin all the news stories claiming that snake and otacon were responsible for the tanker incident and that they were now rogue terrorists.

>>718867287
The meta reason was probably because by MGS4, Ocelot had become a much more important character than Liquid, and they couldn't allow Ocelot to play second fiddle to him. Liquid was only the central antagonist in one game, and a relatively minor threat in another. Ocelot was a major antagonist in all the Playstation era games up to that point. So they had to get rid of Liquid in order to make Ocelot the true de facto final boss.

>>718862672 (OP)
Snake sees plenty of weirder stuff on the daily. You wouldn't buy Liquid's possession after meeting Octopus and Mantis?
There's also the fact that it was genuine before Kojima made everything nanomachines in MGS4. Metal Gear Solid always had supernatural elements

>>718873382
I don't think Ocelot was really cut out to be the final boss honestly. Great character but not really a fit for final boss of the series to me, and not for Solid Snake in particular. Which is why he had to lean on the Liquid possession to set up more personal connection between the two, which I never really got from Solid and Ocelot even though they fought a lot.

>>718873263
>gets spotted by ONE camera
>life ruined
lol

>>718862672 (OP)
This nigga lived through several years of continuous hideo bullshit, evil arm possessing old foe seems almost normal by comparaison

>>718862672 (OP)
Why is he saluting Big Boss's grave?

>>718873731
Genetic memory

>>718873554
Ocelot was effectively the connecting thread between all the Playstation games. This is why his boss fight goes through three phases, each referencing one of the three games. At first he plays Liquid from MGS1, complete with the the game's health bars and music. Then he's a callback to MGS2. Finally, the facade is mostly undone. The final fight isn't just meant to be closure for Snake, it's meant to be closure for Ocelot too. Just as Ocelot is playing the role of Liquid for Snake, Snake is playing the role of Big Boss for Ocelot.

>>718872143
>Unsure where Portable Ops fits
PO fits in the trash can and nowhere else.

>>718862672 (OP)
Cause Ocelot's hair changed when it happened and stopped once Liquid changed arm. The possession was real

Same reason he thought this guy with 0% genetic relation was his dad

>>718873854
I get the idea I just don't think it works, I don't think the attempt at connecting multiple games and characters through the two really fits either all that well

>>718874074
He starts speaking in a british accent also, which confirms it

>>718873731
I honestly find it weird that Snake showed so much respect for Big Boss in MGS4. He had nothing but contempt for who he knew as nothing but a crazed warmonger and loathed himself severely over his connection to him. If anything he should be saluting Frank's grave.

>>718867039
Honestly that’s on you. It’s never implied that it’s FoxDie, plus we know Snake is a clone and real-life animal clones have this issue.

>>718874170
Eh. I mean that's where the root of a lot of MGS4's flaws come from, isn't it? MGS4 was sort of meant to be the big finale for the series, the thing that ties up all the loose ends. So it keeps tripping over itself trying to be that ultimate finale.

>>718874290
I think it's because he didn't really quite know how to end things. In the end, Big Boss was not just the man who taught him everything he knew as a soldier, but also his father. I think it was just Snake's way of burying the hatchet before he offed himself. Sure, Big Boss made a ton of bloody mistakes, but I felt that Snake was sort of past the point of hating him.

>>718865861
The plan is that he was pretending all along.

>>718873005
They were terrorists in the eyes of government destroying government property and probably committing numerous felonies and billed as ecoterrorists in the media. They call this out in MGS 2 when Raiden calls them out
>- that's not grassroots activism, that's more like terrorism!
>I admit that.
Hal is a financial criminal among other things.

Ocelot's plan like Eva was to recover Big Boss and destroy the Patriots network, along with killing Zero. Ocelot mantling Liquid took it further by invoking Outer Heaven and wanted to create a global state of anarchy by free citizens. Naomi was also involved because she was adopted by Gray Fox after he killed her parents, and both financed by Big Boss.

The plan was to use Naomi to get close to Hal and modify Emma's virus on the recovered MO disc from MGS 2 to retarget all of SOP beyond GW. SOP is a fully automated system that is programmed in part to exist in a feedback system that manipulate funds and social causes in the global economy that maintains itself while funding projects according to Zero's agenda for the Patriots. It is the crypto Jew. It goes haywire when it eventually exploits perpetual war in the world to carry out its program. War and the MIC is wildly profitable. The global economy needs perpetual war and suffering to sustain itself, which is not what Zero intended, it just happened because AI is stupid.

Ocelot's plan, as CEO of a multinational private military conglomerate, was to bait Snake, a wanted terrorist, into annihilating SOP and putting the global economy and thus society into collapse, while taking all blame for it.

The original plan for MGS 4's ending had Snake and Otacon arrested, convicted for their terrorism (doing the needful), and being executed for crimes against the state and humanity. The cop out was having the system destroyed but everything miraculously working out and not changing anything.

>>718874290
>I honestly find it weird that Snake showed so much respect for Big Boss in MGS4.
He doesn't, though. He's clear that he thinks Big Boss is a piece of shit despite the public's fascination (one of MGS4's few good bits of dialogue), and even when Big Boss shows up again Snake (rightfully) assumes he's going to have to put down that one-eyed fuck again.

>>718874290
Kojima wanted to suck Big Boss's dick after MGS3 and made MGS4 revolve around him

>>718874589
Also, I think it was meant to be a symbolic gesture. A lot of the reason things ballooned out of control was due to the cycle of spite, anger, hatred and vengeance that started from the Boss's death. A lot of the actions of both Big Boss and Zero were partially motivated by those negative emotions. Snake saluting Big Boss's grave at the end, I think, was meant to showcase a definitive end to the cycle. Solid Snake was the product of a vicious spiral of spite and anger, but he let go of those feelings and forgave Big Boss.

>>718862742
This
Also It's not like Snake hadn't seen a lot of supernaturalish shit; I wouldn't be surprised if he sort of moved it to a "just don't think too hard about it" level of his mind

and then MGR came along and set a narrative following that original plan - Stuff seemed to work out at the end of MGS 4 but then cyber technology goes off the rails and becomes widely available, the war economy actually accelerates and becomes even more profitable as numerous old and new pmcs are contracted into proxy wars, state defense and contract killings by corporations, governments, and private citizens.

>>718875089
I refuse to acknowledge MGR.

>>718875009
This reads like a ChatGPT response and he does the salute in the beginning of the game (before Big Mama's giant infodump of death)

>>718875160
Doesn't really negate anything I said. Snake didn't really hate Big Boss anymore. He was just tired and dying and wanted whatever little closure he could get. His true feelings notwithstanding, there weren't really any other loose ends keeping Snake anchored anymore, at least not ones he had any real control over.

>>718862672 (OP)
Why did he died if he is so smart

>>718874609
>The original plan for MGS 4's ending had Snake and Otacon arrested, convicted for their terrorism (doing the needful), and being executed for crimes against the state and humanity. The cop out was having the system destroyed but everything miraculously working out and not changing anything.
The ending as it is with big boss and zero appearing out of nowhere was fairly whack, but that seems even less satisfying. The things left on the cutting room floor are sometimes there for a reason. Assuming it's even true, my metal geartism runs deep but I've never heard anything like that. Do you have a source?

>>718862672 (OP)
Because it wasn't bullshit and he could obviously tell when speaking to his own brother? Retard.

>>718875089
>>718875143
I want to remind everyone that MGR is the canonical end of the metal gear series (for now). That means everything in metal gear is building up to that game, how everyone isn't seeing MGR as an massive insult to the franchise is beyond me
>The beautiful moment in MGS3 where you have to kill the boss in a field of flowers? That's all so that Sundowner can say "give war a chance"

>Solidus explaining Raidens backstory and how he was an experiment to test free will, along with all the trauma Raiden got from the war? All so that he can say "It's time for jack to let her rip" in a very stupid way

>The moment in MGS where Liquid talks about making his own destiny? It's all so that Armstrong can throw around Raiden like a football

Portable ops was good actually story wise it was better than piss walker at least
And has one of the best songs in the whole series in Calling to the Night
And the twin ladies make my dick hard, as does Paramedic's model with her massive knockers

>>718875462
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/tgs-07-kojima-speaks/1100-6179757/
The closest I can get is this, but there's at least one jp interview where he went into more depth.
Nobody liked the idea of killing the protagonists.

>>718873731
Have in mind he was about to kill himself so I always supposed this was a way to say goodbye to the only family he ever had.
You could argue Liquid was also his family but he knew him for half and hour and LIquid spent all that time trying to kill him.

>>718875509
It's non-canon. And frankly, I think it's kind of lousy worldbuilding. Just a few short years after MGS4, after the fall of the Patriots, not just America, but a fucking mercenary unit was able to get their hands on technology dozens of times more advanced than anything we saw in MGS4? The world of MGR was designed first and foremost to justify Raiden's new capabilities. They needed to be able to justify Raiden being able to slice up RAYs in half with a sword so tech had to be ramped up like crazy in order to allow such specs. And they had to make every single fucking enemy a robot or a cyborg.

>>718875739
>Portable ops was good actually story wise it was better than piss walker at least
No. The story is awful, the level design is awful, almost everything is awful. It should be jettisoned into the sun for its treatment of Gray Fox alone. I still think it's technically impressive to have an almost feature-complete MGS3 crammed onto a PSP within a couple years of MGS3 itself, but that's not really that relevant these days. Ghost Babel is also technically impressive for the GBC, but it's also actually good which is why it doesn't matter how you play it.

Peace Walker also has its problems, but they pale in comparison.
>Calling to the Night
Agreed on that one.

>>718876210
Have they said the game isn't canon?

>>718876373
PSP games would've been better if they played more like MGS1 or 2.

>>718876210
>They needed to be able to justify Raiden being able to slice up RAYs in half with a sword so tech had to be ramped up like crazy in order to allow such specs
No difference from him pushing back Outer Haven in MGS4.

>>718876148
I'm not sure Snake is the kind of guy to put much stake in blood relations over the people you actually grew up with. It's not like BB raised him either, Snake bounced between foster homes and Big Boss was more his CO and instructor.

>>718876456
I agree with that. I said that even when PW came out that it would've been better off trying to recapture classic MG1-MGS2 gameplay than integrating MGS4's mechanics. The base building stuff could have been preserved either way. Even the co-op could have.

>>718876517
It was probably less about family relations and more about letting go of his resentment.

>>718862672 (OP)
Because MGS4 is a poorly written game after Kojima's co-writer left him after MGS3.

>>718876373
>treatment of gray fox
Oh yeah, I knew there was something retarded in there

>>718876683
After his cowriter was murdered, you mean

>>718876683
Yes. The absence of Tomokazu Fukushima is clear as day.

>>718876087
Thanks for providing a source. For the record I think you're a cool dude and these kinds of actual arguments are what I come here for. With all that said

>"One of my ideas [for MGS4's ending] was that, since Snake and Otacon are breaking the law in order to fulfill their justice, I was thinking of having them turn themselves in, and for the sake of justice, they'd get convicted and executed by the law," he explained. "But all of my staff went against the idea, so I decided not to go with that."

I think it's a bit misguided to regard a discarded idea as the "true" thrust of the story. Ideas get changed all the time in development and trumping up some preliminary idea as the truth compared to the released story seems just a bit meaningless to me. A first draft will never be the whole story.

>>718876693
Gene is also pretty retarded.

>>718862672 (OP)
I wouldn't. Nano machines are basically magic not to mention the actual magic in the series.

>>718877009
That's fair. When you look at the setting for MGS 4's plot though, and the call to action - the UN, but probably Roy specifically, is contracting Snake under the table to assassinate the head officer of a multinational corporation, and they say it as much in the game -

to see the ending take a hard 180 at the last minute where everything just works out, it almost seems obvious that they were writing most of the plot with that alternate ending in mind.
Maybe it can be likened to the dilemma of First Blood's novel ending vs the film's, or maybe not.

>>718873008
This is in the remake?
The gameplay is like mgo from mgs5?

>>718877847
>to see the ending take a hard 180 at the last minute where everything just works out, it almost seems obvious that they were writing most of the plot with that alternate ending in mind.
I can see where you're coming from, it just never felt like a 180 to me. It was framed as Snake's last mission and that's what it was, and walking away from very complicated situations with very little complications is kind of the norm for the series, it's about war hero drama and dragging the characters out of that into realistic politics land would probably be a mistake. I think it was the right call to focus on the dramatic closure rather than go through the more "realistic" scenarios. I doubt anyone wants to see snake or otacon dragged to a 12 hour senate meeting to explain themselves before getting executed.