Thread 718896002

How did Kojima write a compelling Mary Sue?

>>718896002 (OP)
>gets her kid stolen
>gets manipulated into a bunch of bullshit
>has to kill her bf
>gets killed by he apprentice
Do you not know what a Mary Sue is? They’re not allowed to fuck up or suffer.

>>718896002 (OP)
wouldn’t naked snake be a gary stu since he beat this mary sue

>>718896002 (OP)
>>718896084 pretty much fpbp
She is also portrayed somewhat villainously throughout most of the game

It sucks that "strong female character" has become a pathetic woke stereotype because this is a good example of it being done right. Not all capable female characters are woke stereotypes, although I'd forgive anyone under 20 for thinking that's the case since that's all hollywood has done for the last 6 years

>>718896654
wouldn't blinky be a spadunky since he beat this bloogypop?

>>718896705
Shut up, woke faggot.

>>718896745
no blinky is a ghost

>>718896792
Yeah I'm really woke for defending MGS3, the most woke of games

>>718896002 (OP)
Don’t worry, he retroactively made her insufferable by proxy in the next 2 games.

It's fine and actually a GOOD thing if villains/antagonists are a bit of a mary sue. It's only bad if the protagonist is a mary sue.

It's more satisfying when they eventually lose in the end if they're overpowered geniuses and seemingly favored by the heavens.

>>718896002 (OP)
I never felt anything about the Boss. From the start it felt like I was supposed to care about her only because I'm told to (by everyone's and especially Snake's worship of her) but I couldn't take it for granted, I needed to see something I can feel about strongly and nothing was really there to connect with. After the first two MGS games her story just wasn't that impressive, sure it was sad but so are most character stories in these games, I couldn't see what makes her so special. The ending of the game fell flat for me because I never had a reason to care about her tribulations or her ideals.

>>718896002 (OP)
strong cheekbones = well written

>>718897110
I love that the entire storyline of Metal Gear is literally two autistic retards completely misunderstanding the fairly simple idea of
>damn I wish people would stop killing each other over arbitrary problems they invented
Big Boss:
>Clearly that means I should recruit child soldiers and create a mercenary haven so that war never ends
Zero:
>Clearly that means I should install a one-world government and financial dependence on endless proxy wars

>>718896002 (OP)
Because what makes Mary Sues terrible is that they completely take over an amateurish narrative and grate on the audience. The Boss is barely there except in the background as a villain that complicates Snake's feelings about the mission. Her being the bestest that there ever was doesn't serve to make the story boring and predictable because she only acts a few times through the story, we have no idea about her actual motives, and killing her is the end goal. As a character her place in the story is largely defined not by her perfection but by the effect she has on other, less perfect characters. That's how you write a compelling Mary Sue.

>>718896002 (OP)
You don't know what Mary Sue means

>>718896002 (OP)
All of Cobra unit were supernatural X-Men.

>>718897775
Zero is the one who stupidly thought that the only solution to corrupt uncaring governments was to form an Orwellian nightmare shadow government and take over the world. Big Boss wasn't really trying to carry on her will, her death just made him realize how much he hated soldiers being used as disposable tools by governments no matter how virtuous they are.

>>718896002 (OP)
Mary Sues are only a problem when they are the main point of view character. Its less an issue if they are the villain, or a mentor, or the Sherlock to the main character Watson.

>>718897583
if anything i think the worshipful tone makes it harder to warm up to her as a character

>>718898375
it's the fact that underneath it all she's just a human being desperately trying to prevent nuclear armageddon, willing to even sacrifice her life to sell the Russians on a completely bogus cover story that she defected, that makes her compelling. At first all you see is the legend, but by the end of the game you find out she really is just a soldier doing her duty, no matter what it costs her personally.

>>718896002 (OP)
He didn't.

I like how people instead of admitting that in hindsight that this character was a woke girlboss, they want to say "well she wasn't THAT bad compared to what we have now" or that "she is how you properly do a strong female character".
Why do you dudes even want a strong female character in the first place? Are you a fag? I want women to be women and not playing pretend as men.
Why are people so afraid to give an honest reflection on games they liked in the past and admit it might have helped push the overton window and culture to what we see today? Nostalgia?

>>718898618
>I like how people instead of admitting that in hindsight that this character was a woke girlboss
bait is supposed to be believable

>>718898521
you don't see the legend, you get told there's a legend, that's the issue.

>>718897084
Is this in Delta

>>718896084
Mary Sue just means competent woman

How did Snake overcome his admiration for The Boss to kill her? The title of Big Boss felt undeserved because he didn't really grow and change enough over the course of the story in order to find the courage to kill her.

There was no big realization about himself, his place in the world, or a time where he reflected on what it means to be loyal to ones country for the boss' death to feel that impactful for him. Yes her death changed him later in life but in mgs3 we really don't see how he overcame the internal struggle to kill his mentor.

>>718898959
>How did Snake overcome his admiration for The Boss to kill her?
He thought she really was a traitor at the time.
>The title of Big Boss felt undeserved
Yes, exactly. It's a title that he despises more than anything because it's an albatross around his neck that he murdered his own mentor without realizing she was only acting a role from the start. It's only later that he finds out she was actually a plant all along. When he salutes her grave at the end, Big Boss knows the full truth and is a broken man.

>>718898959
I guess the point of the story was that it didn't matter if Snake somehow found the courage to kill her because the government was basically forcing him to kill her or else. He never had a choice and by the end of his journey they congratulated him, promoted him, and then discarded him only to later use him for their own gain once again. He and the boss were used and it didn't matter if he cared for her or not. She was his objective given to him by the country he thought he knew and trusted.

>>718898751
retard

>>718898618
You're right in the sense that she would've been received badly if MGS 3 released today, but the difference comes from intention. Everyone knows when Kojima puts a girl boss in his game, she is a character first that has a reason for being that way and her character is in service to the main character and the overall story. When a studio full of dyed hair dykes do it, they do it to send a message that women are flawless and stronger than men. None of it has meaning. None of it service anything. It's just there for the developers and not the audience.

>>718899619
>Kojima: We're gonna put a badass chick in the game as an antagonist but also ally of Snake
BOOOOO!
>and she's gonna have huge fuckin tiddies and only wear a bikini and pantyhose
YEAHHHHHHHHH!

>>718896002 (OP)
he didn't
she wants you to leave the world as you saw it
that makes no fucking sense
she doesn't want no evolution just stagnation and no borders cause shes a dumb cunt that took russian cock
really shes the worse thing kojima came up with next to strangelove and all the pw/v characters