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Anonymous No.718899768 >>718900341 >>718900412 >>718900489 >>718902528 >>718902587 >>718902592 >>718902710 >>718903208 >>718903274 >>718903321 >>718904112 >>718907393 >>718909891 >>718909928 >>718910086 >>718910303 >>718912040 >>718912484 >>718912517 >>718912626 >>718913028 >>718914228
Why is it okay to have a good Drow (Drizzt) but fans got triggered by a good Mindflayer existing?
Anonymous No.718900003 >>718900245
All Store spotless be killed on site. All Mindflayers should be killed on site. Just because someone somewhere managed to find the one out of 500,000 friendly one doesn't mean you spotless go talk to one. Simple as.
Anonymous No.718900245 >>718903468
>>718900003
>All Store spotless

what
Anonymous No.718900341
>>718899768 (OP)
Drizzt shouldn't have survived Menzoberranzan
Anonymous No.718900412
>>718899768 (OP)
Drow is a faggot he is the definition of neutral evil.
Anonymous No.718900489 >>718901721
>>718899768 (OP)
Drizzt isn't a good drow. He's the champion of Lloth sewing chaos in the world
Anonymous No.718900521 >>718903351
What's the cure for such disorders?
Anonymous No.718900548 >>718900868
DND sucks so bad now. It's all been downhill since 3rd edition.
Anonymous No.718900802
Because Drow are just dickass elves, a normal race of people with a horrible culture, and mindflayers are literally soulless abominations, parasites from beyond the void who are obliged to eat peoples' brains to live.
Anonymous No.718900868 >>718901836 >>718903262 >>718913821
>>718900548
I still remember my friend's older grognard brother having a meltdown about third edition, how we weren't playing "real dnd" when it first released and how he insisted we keep playing AD&D. It's weird but I sort of agree with him now, AD&D was much better for in person play in my opinion, 3rd was bogged down with bizarre rules like grappling and insane trap options. However, 3rd has the best looking core handbooks to this day imo, that shit was tight.
Anonymous No.718901087 >>718907196
I don't care any more, D&D has been kitchen sink fantasy for longer than most people playing and developing it have been alive. Of course there are objectively, irredeemably evil species, because it's cool to kill them. Of course an objectively evil species can be redeemed to be good, because monsters in your party are cool

Whatever
Anonymous No.718901721 >>718901813
>>718900489
sowing
Anonymous No.718901813
>>718901721
no, he's filing many many frivolous lawsuits
Anonymous No.718901836 >>718902227
>>718900868
3/3.5 was peak
Anonymous No.718902227
>>718901836
it had it's flaws though
fighters being as arse as they were unless you really knew what you were doing (aka dungeoncrasher shenanigans ) sorta brought it down, a core class like that shouldn't be arse

to the point where the genuine advise to anyone wanting to play a fighter in 3.5 is "just play a warblade instead, trust me"
Anonymous No.718902413
Anonymous No.718902528
>>718899768 (OP)

mind flayers are ugly, drow are not
Anonymous No.718902587 >>718902702 >>718902851
>>718899768 (OP)
Drizzt is reddit as fuck and him and his supporting crew miraculously surviving and being focused on was an early symptom of everything wrong with DnD. Good Mindflayers are even more retarded. Baldur's Gate ended with Throne of Bhaal
Anonymous No.718902592 >>718902693
>>718899768 (OP)

ole dirzz has like 15 books.

Hes just a super mary sue, i mean like harry potter before he was a thing. like.

OMG YOU CAN COUNT LAL THE COINS OMG

OMG YOU CAN LEVITATE IMMEDIATELY OMG

OMG YOUR PWIFL CLOAK IS SO SWEET OMG

Then hes just like, fuck this i wanna be the guy.

Fuck those books were retarded.
Anonymous No.718902693 >>718902902
>>718902592
he can't be a mary sue because he's the protagonist of his own series. he's just a god moder original character
Anonymous No.718902702 >>718902770
>>718902587
good mindflayers are no more retarded than good bhaalspawn which is kinda you know, what the entire series is based on
Anonymous No.718902710 >>718903830
>>718899768 (OP)
>Why is it okay to have a good Drow (Drizzt)
It isn't.
Anonymous No.718902770 >>718902939
>>718902702
Mindflayers are brain eating alien slavers who are connected to a hive mind. Bhaalspawn are random people who Bhaal fucked into existence who have a higher than normal craving for violence and blood
Anonymous No.718902851
>>718902587
>is reddit as fuck
what does that mean? I don't use reddit
Anonymous No.718902902 >>718903038
>>718902693
>he can't be a mary sue because he's the protagonist of his own series. he's just a god moder origi

A “Mary Sue” is a term from fanfiction and storytelling criticism that describes a character who is unrealistically perfect to the point of breaking immersion.

Key traits often associated with a Mary Sue:

Exceptional abilities with little explanation (e.g., mastering skills instantly, always being the strongest/smartest).

Universally liked by other characters, often without earning it.

Central to the plot in a way that makes other characters feel secondary or irrelevant.

Few (or no) real flaws — or flaws that are superficial (like being “too nice” or “too pretty”).
Anonymous No.718902939 >>718903067
>>718902770
bhaalspawn are literal pieces of bhaal which is how he can use them as a scheme to return from being killed

they've got the souls of one of the most evil gods ever
Anonymous No.718903006 >>718903123
Did bg3 set up a sequel like bg2 did? I’m not saying is the developer working on a sequel, I meant did they place a problem that could get picked up in a subsequent game
Anonymous No.718903038 >>718903127 >>718903456
>>718902902
is that the tvtropes definition? because i don't recognize tvtropes. mary sue is only applicable to fanfiction characters, not characters in their own series
Anonymous No.718903067
>>718902939
>they've got the souls of one of the most evil gods ever
No they do not, the quite markedly are their own people without any control from Bhaal, and have violent urges which can be rejected and suppressed. The villain of the first game literally wanted to usurp Bhaal.
>But Bhaal made them to return from being killed!
Yeah and they all have to die for that to happen he doesn't give a fuck about any of them in fact he actively wanted them to die
Anonymous No.718903123
>>718903006
nothing outright no, unless they intend to use Durge as a future villain
I think Larian knew very well from the start it was unlikely they'd work on a sequel
Anonymous No.718903127 >>718903197 >>718903310
>>718903038
Combat & Skills

Nearly unbeatable in combat; one of the best swordsmen in the Realms

Master of dual-wielding, archery, stealth, and survival skills

Exceptional agility, reflexes, and speed bordering on superhuman

Routinely defeats stronger or more experienced opponents

Outshines allies, even those who are powerful in their own right

Morality & Personality

Rejects his people’s evil ways, framed as uniquely virtuous

Always noble, selfless, and compassionate

Flaws are noble in nature (too merciful, too self-sacrificing)

Rarely portrayed as morally wrong or misguided

Serves as a philosophical commentator through journal entries

Relationships & Reputation

Wins loyalty and trust despite widespread prejudice against drow

Easily forms deep bonds with humans, dwarves, and elves

Admired or romantically desired by multiple characters

Respected and eventually revered across the realms

Charismatic without needing to work for it

Special Powers & Uniqueness

Possesses innate drow abilities (darkvision, stealth, magic)

Wields iconic, enchanted weapons (Icingdeath and Twinkle)

Has a unique magical companion (panther Guenhwyvar)

Nearly always central to major victories in the narrative

Benefits from strong plot armor — rarely suffers permanent loss

Authorial Framing

Backstory makes him inherently “special” (a good-aligned drow)

Cast as a tragic yet idealized outsider

Journal entries elevate him as a moral authority

Repeatedly survives impossible odds, often through authorial favoritism

Narrative consistently validates his worldview and choices
Anonymous No.718903197 >>718903259
>>718903127
author's OC =/= mary sue

i'm sorry anon
Anonymous No.718903208 >>718903417
>>718899768 (OP)
Nurture vs nature. Drow are evil due to culture, Mindflayers are evil due to their nature. It's a lot harder to go against your nature then to correct your wrong nurture.
Anonymous No.718903259 >>718903307
>>718903197
Yes — in fact, the term “Mary Sue” originally described an original character.

The phrase comes from a 1973 Star Trek parody fanfic called A Trekkie’s Tale by Paula Smith. In it, the author poked fun at common fan-insert characters: a 15-year-old Lieutenant Mary Sue who was younger, prettier, smarter, and more talented than the entire Enterprise crew. She breezed through every conflict and was adored by everyone.

So by definition:

An original character (OC) can absolutely be a Mary Sue if they are written as unrealistically perfect, centralizing the story around themselves, and lacking meaningful flaws or struggles.

Mary Sues are often author self-inserts or idealized avatars placed into a pre-existing universe (like Star Trek, Harry Potter, or Forgotten Realms), but they can also appear in entirely original works if the protagonist feels overpowered, universally admired, or implausibly flawless.

The label isn’t about being original or fan-created — it’s about the imbalance between the character and the narrative. If the OC warps the story so that everything revolves around them, that’s when people cry “Mary Sue.”
Anonymous No.718903262
>>718900868
The problem with the grognardism of "new bad, old good" is that at some point it becomes objectively true that new is bad and old is good. It's just hard to say where.
Anonymous No.718903274
>>718899768 (OP)
Drow are still ensouled humanoids. Mindflayers don't have souls. They're literally parasites that extinguish the mortal soul of their host during ceremorphosis. They have to kill mortals to be born. Drow are beholden to no such nature. They're just pricks. lol
Anonymous No.718903307 >>718903375
>>718903259
my mistake, i'm 'arguing' with clanker

lol
Anonymous No.718903310 >>718903375
>>718903127
>Nearly always central to major victories in the narrative
I mean, that's literally every protagonist ever of anything
Also magic weapons are again, something common among protagonists and he's not really unbeatable in combat, he just has the common sense to not fuck with things that could turn him inside out (Elminster for example could beat him without breaking a sweat)

Also wasn't part of the thing that all those good traits just make him a failure of a drow?
Anonymous No.718903321
>>718899768 (OP)
Dark Elves aren't inherently evil. They're each cursed by their bitch goddess.
Anonymous No.718903351
>>718900521
Literal bot thread read these fucking posts man
Anonymous No.718903375 >>718903505
>>718903307

Your just retarded, thats the main issue there. You have a flawed world view. Drizzt durrp urrrrden is a Mary Sue, just as you are tarded, but thats ok, my friends wife was a tard, now shes a pilot.

>>718903310
He fucking beats everyone every time and just is super cool super duper drow guy.
Anonymous No.718903417
>>718903208
nah Drow are evil due to nature as well, not quite on the level of mindflayers but you leave 10 drow to be adopted by decent human commoners, and 9 of them will end up killing their adoptive parents
the 10th will turn out okay though
Anonymous No.718903456
>>718903038
Your definition is not how 99% of people use the word.
Anonymous No.718903467
tencent adspam thread
Anonymous No.718903468
>>718900245
Glitched LMM or translator.
I thibk he meant thieves
Anonymous No.718903505 >>718903557 >>718903648
>>718903375
so what's your solution then "and then Drizzt lost from a drow and got turned into a couch, slowly"
generally speaking if the price of failure is death you can't have your protagonist lose if you want to make a sequel
Anonymous No.718903557 >>718903643 >>718912294
>>718903505
He never fails or loses, he always wins. You can lose and not die, you can not win and have changes, lost friends ect.

He just always wins

mary sue
Anonymous No.718903643 >>718903761
>>718903557
that's just blatantly not true
you do know it stopped being cool to hate on Drizzt about 10 years ago right?
He's not even in the top 10 most well known FR characters anymore
Anonymous No.718903648 >>718903858
>>718903505
Drizzt never ever ever faces any kind of real loss or hardship and he's always the winner in the end. Even children's slop like Harry Potter has the protagonist lose in some of the books and still have sequels.
Anonymous No.718903761
>>718903643
>it stopped being cool to hate on Drizzt about 10 years ago
Probably because everyone with any semblance of standards had quit caring about DnD 10 years ago
Anonymous No.718903830 >>718910305
>>718902710
I cheesed this bastard with the boots that make you run fast while the others had fun filling him full of bows and bolts.
Anonymous No.718903858
>>718903648
to be fair dual wielding scimitars is insanely broken in D&D once youve got the feats and gear for it
Anonymous No.718904112 >>718905434
>>718899768 (OP)
isn't there a whole faction of selune worshipping drow?
Anonymous No.718905434
>>718904112

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Eilistraee

Using her worshippers sword as a monk/rogue/ranger in bg3, shit's tight
Anonymous No.718906972
tencent adspam thread
Anonymous No.718907196 >>718907265
>>718901087
I just want to be evil. Collect female elves via petrifying them in poses freezing their fear in death and decorating my house in game. But NOOOOO that's too far. Its not even rape which is super taboo either which is fair. But introduce slavery and people are like NOOOO lets not touch the past of that American history.
Anonymous No.718907265
>>718907196
Patrician taste.
Anonymous No.718907393
>>718899768 (OP)
mindflayers dont have souls
their actions are analogous to the instincts of insects. They just have very advanced and complex instincts
Anonymous No.718909891
>>718899768 (OP)
this outlier good guy shit has got to stop. this how we got mexican orcs, playable race drow/tieflings. Mind-flayers arent cuddly misunderstood monsters.
Anonymous No.718909928
>>718899768 (OP)
Anonymous No.718910086
>>718899768 (OP)
The worst part of this game are the Tav voices. How am I supposed to play as a Dwarf or Half-Orc when they sound like a fucking high school English teacher
Anonymous No.718910303 >>718910382
>>718899768 (OP)

Never came under impression that he's good, he is just a scientist freed from the hivemind - as in: gaining independent thought. He just challenges the alignment system, and i think it triggers the fans. Matt Marcer's Clorotha was a fantastic twist for a mindfalyer, for example.
Anonymous No.718910305
>>718903830
he comes back to get his shit after awhile.
Anonymous No.718910382 >>718915386
>>718910303
>watches Critcal Role

faggot
Anonymous No.718910504
tencent adspam thread
There is no reality where your partnership with the CCP comes out on top, Hiro
Anonymous No.718911817
>squidward suddenly tries to seduce me only because i wasnt an asshole towards him
ngl this was a fucking massive cringe moment
Anonymous No.718912040
>>718899768 (OP)
"evil monster is actually good" has been overdone. it's not surprising anymore.
people want classic good vs evil now.
seeing fantasy war between races is much more interesting than the "probing into monsters mindset" stuff.
Anonymous No.718912294
>>718903557
>Alexander the Great is such fucking bullshit
>he never lost, so unrealistic
Anonymous No.718912484
>>718899768 (OP)
A story about a good person coming from an evil faction and fucking them over is kino so a good Drow is cool. Mindflayers are ugly creatures without a sovl, why should I care about them? They should frankly not exist
Anonymous No.718912517
>>718899768 (OP)
Rogue illythids are very rare.
I wished they'd flesh out Omeluum more though, he was quite interesting.
Anonymous No.718912626
>>718899768 (OP)
mindflayers are literally lawful evil incarnate, they're objectively bad

amazing to me that they made these things able to be "good" just so that they could make gay porn out of them
Anonymous No.718913028
>>718899768 (OP)
why is it okay to post this thread multiple times
Anonymous No.718913821
>>718900868
I am playing AD&D 2E right now and its shockingly similar to 3.5 lol, just a smidge more simulationist rules and verismilitude but not to a degree where I'd say they aren't comparable.
Throw away initiative modifiers for weapons/spells and spell fizzling on damage and you're basically playing 3.5 PHB-only.
Anonymous No.718914149
DnD lore is 100000% garbage
Anonymous No.718914228
>>718899768 (OP)
>good mindflayer
this (literal) faggot has a hissy fit if you don't go with his plan and defects to the brain he's spent years trying to reject

lmao
Anonymous No.718915141
tencent adspam thread
There is no reality where your partnership with the CCP comes out on top, Hiro
Anonymous No.718915386
>>718910382

Mercer's storytelling is pretty fun, he can't run encounters to save his life though. Shame he went full woke.
Anonymous No.718915682
I respect people who could sit through the entire baldurs gate 3 campaign, I had to give up in act 2