Thread 718900482

Now that the dust has settled, can we agree that the original paid mods thing on Steam would have been preferable to the current meta where mods are behind a Patreon paywall?
If you're too young to remember, in 2015 Valve and Bethesda partnered to allow mods to be sold on the Steam Workshop for Skyrim. They were faced with heavy backlash from gamers, who found the idea of having to pay for mods absurd. The idea was quickly dropped and they had to apologize for it.
Fast forward to now, most worthwhile mods are behind a Patreon paywall, and have to be pirated. Some are entirely unaccessible for free, others lock the 'complete' version behind a subscription to the author's Patreon, and others still timegate it so that only subscribers get access to the mod for a few weeks or months.
Isn't the current situation worse than what was proposed back then?

>>718900482 (OP)
>fags just hold their shit behind monthly subscriptions while locking the distribution behind private messages and watermarks so they can track when someone decides to play good Samaritan
Merchant level antics right here.

I don't support the current situation either. I have never paid for a mod and I never will.

No because I just pirate them

>>718900683
not always possible for niche stuff

the only mods i would every pay for is stuff like enderal and tamriel rebuilt.

>>718900482 (OP)
>Backlash from gamers
You mean the modders? Lmaoooo
Modders are scums of the gaming industry.

>most worthwhile mods are behind a Patreon paywall
I've literally never seen this, although I don't play skyrim garbage

>>718900482 (OP)
In hindsight the paid mods thing is inevitable. Gabe was just ahead of the curve and tried to centralize it on Steam.

Modders are the biggest fags on the internet. Mods should be open source so it's forkable and auditable but instead they power trip because they think their spaghetti code and kit bashed models are worth anything.

if your game has mods like this, you are playing a shit game

>>718901497
maybe you should learn to make your own mods

>>718900482 (OP)
We don't have the sort of civilised society where such a system for paid mods on an official platform could work, and there would be too much overhead required to properly maintain and police such a system that it becomes financially unviable for everyone involved. If modders want to beg for donations that is fine, and the primary issue involved with something like a Patreon system is mostly around the fact that at some level they are having to utilise assets or systems they don't have a license for. There is arguably a legal gray are depending on how a patreon/subscription mod system could be setup and how old a game it is for, but you aren't going to beat corporate interests that can afford the most jewish of lawyers and lobbyists.

>>718901076
>not always possible for niche stuff
be the change you want to see in the world anon

beat banger encore mod
https://litter.catbox.moe/tmijoklxuwtdqi3g.zip
credit to random guy on f95 thread

>paying for mods
>pre ordering digital games
Why are gamers the biggest retard coonsumers on the fucking planet, my brain literally can't understand no matter how hard l try.

>>718902176
Because they have no standards.

>>718902176
Modders and their consumers are subhumans.

>>718902176
This but people buying for commissions. Why the hell would I spend $100 dollars on a drawing when I can make my own with AI?
Artists have really scammed people with sob stories and ethics.

>>718902478
>tfw people are paying commissions on AIshart
Grim

>>718902310
Yeah, but we live in an era where we have so many games to play, gamers larp as much they want, but are incapable of voting with their wallet, l wonder where this started to happen, movies and music enjoyers doesn't throw their money mindless like us.

>>718900482 (OP)
Paid mods won't work while people post copyright content, that's the only reason valve stopped it.

>>718901497
Modders feel like they're pretty damn close to the answer of "How little power can you give a man before he goes mad and abuses it?"
Because christ almighty, the shit you see them do sometimes. Still, there are a lot of cool guys in most modding communities too, it's just the gigafags stick out the most.

>>718902602
Video games are capable of becoming Skinner boxes, which encourages this sort of behaviour, unlike music and film. Anyway, Disney live action slop makes billions at the box office.

>>718900482 (OP)
No.
mods should never be paywalled. paywalled mods should be leaked and the creators named and shamed. the fact that the current situation exists is because all the cucks that are willing to accept it. really goes to show how spineless people are.

>>718902695
Yeah, but even these movies doesn't make the same amount of capital like games, and even these movies are removed from streaming, pirate sites will host them, but games...

>>718902602
Parasocial relations and the concept of communities certaintly doesn't help in this regard. The sheer amount of variety and niches covered means that you are bound to find something that speaks directly to (You). Just because the top end high rollers are blowing themselves out with their glorified money laundering schemes doesn't mean that you have to directly partake in their bullshit. There are more games out there right now that you couldn't play even if you had a few extra lifetimes to spare. Mods that are capable of making said games last longer just equates to more value in the long run. Providing the game itself is enjoyable enough to warrant that level of tweaking and personal adjustment if you decide to mod it yourself.

>>718900482 (OP)
didnt that 25 cent apple bring in that one dude like a few million steambux?

>>718900482 (OP)
Nah I prefer they're on patreon so I never have to see them.

>>718900482 (OP)
The idea of paid mods isn't a bad one in and of itself, GabeN is right that money is how the community drives work.
That said, it was handled incredibly poorly with mods that relied on other mods, or just outright stealing content.
The same issue remains to some extent, a lot of games rely on modding frameworks (BepInEx for Unity shit, REFramework for Capcom games) and how are those to be handled? Will users have to pay for the framework? Should mod makers have to pay a licensing fee if their mods use the framework? Will everyone and their mother attempt to make their own framework so they can avoid these issues or to become the "de facto" framework and profit off everyone else's work? It's fucked.

>>718900482 (OP)
The fact of the matter is, if a modder wants to sell his work then he will. Sperging out at Steam for making the process a little easier was pointless.

>>718900482 (OP)
No, and you're a retard.
Allowing paid mods as it was proposed back then would've incentivized publishers to build their games around the idea, since they were getting a cut from every sale.

>>718902668
terminally online loners who hard dump all their time into one thing receive a crumb of validation for the first time.

>>718900482 (OP)
Mods were selling on patreon before the steam thing

No
Steam worshop was fucking awful and I am glad its aborted

>>718905730
having to pay a subscription on patreon is worse tho

>>718906097
I don't need a steam goy account to unpack mods from patreon

>>718906821
you need a patreon goy account

>>718900482 (OP)
Id rather pay the mod creator than let bethesda arbitrarily give creators a one time fee and then reap the profits longterm

either way, inagine if commhnity bugfix mods got locked behind a paywall? Top tier jewery that

>>718900482 (OP)
no. I don't buy mods. maybe I'll donate to the modmaker, but I will never pay for them upfront

>>718900482 (OP)
>Fast forward to now,
The current situation exists is because Bethesda changed to an anti mod position and don't officially support mods.

>>718907531
wrong

>>718907597
False

>>718907691
Your image just proves you're wrong. What does Oblivion Remastered, which came out this year, have to do with mods being sold on Patreon, something that's been going on for years? Also this isn't just about Bethesda games, other games like BG3 also have a bunch of paywalled modes.

>>718907038
No I don't

Isn't paywalling mods supposed to be illegal? You're basically reselling part of someone else's game.

>>718900482 (OP)
"this payment feature" ripped off both customers and modmakers. customers would eventually pay for broken shit, while modmakers got only a tiny share from the sales. nothing wrong with selling mods on patreon or whatever, where you know that this is not a scam

>>718900482 (OP)
no one found it absurd, it was a bunch of children and third worlders who thought that paid mods would "corrupt" the mod makers and result in all mods worth a shit becoming paid, but in reality just couldn't/didn't want to pay for shit

Let me tell you about grand theft auto 5 roleplay servers. People are literally subbed to mods. so monthly they can pay up to 500 dollars just to have access to some faggots scripts, models, maps etc. The second they unsub they lose access to the material.

WoW modder here. I only host on curseforge because it's the only platform that pays me. Nobody else was lining up to make the mods I made, so, if you don't like it go learn to code and make your own.

I miss the 2000s Half-Life mod scene, just isn't the same anymore

>>718905018
nigga gaben is a obese fucking jew
of course he thinks money is the only way money turns
look at him would anyone give a shit about working for him if he didn't have steam bucks?
be real gaben knows he is nothing without money thats why he copes by thinking money is how everything works because he literally has nothing else to offer to world

>>718910036
>of course he thinks money is the only way money turns
world* turns
sorry i was laughing too hard while writing this

>>718900482 (OP)
in current year when wealth disparity is at an all-time high, i actually prefer the patreon situation and have no problem with paying someone between $5-$30 for access to their whole back catalog. my gripe is only with people who sell their mods for like $5 A PIECE. that's fucking insanity.
>t. regularly sub to DBXV2 modders on patreon

>Understand it's important to get shit to developers
>Understand it creates a really quality environment of usermade shit if it means building useful skills for potentially making shit that you'll license to put into the game, officially.
>Understand that nobody else can be trusted with modhosting all the way back in 2011 with people being fags
>Fucking only give the source 2 sdk to WINDOWS USERS
>Bethesda completely managed to rebrand on the blame on Valve when the whole fiasco was that Valve explicitly had the better system.

>>718900482 (OP)
mods should never be paywalled, they're made for games that don't belong to modmakers and utilise the game's assets or assets ripped from entirely different games, in the case of fallout 4 weapon mods
>b-b-but-
get a real job if you want to make money off coding lol
>>718910241
most paywalled XV2 mods are porn shit and some highly customized slop, so its ok

>>718900482 (OP)
>mods on steam
lol
>mods on patreon
lmao
get a job instead of trying to nickel&dime a hobby. fucking hate paid mods
t. modder

>>718909451
are we ready as a culture to admit that GTA V roleplay is just Roblox for Dads?

>>718910513
GTAV and RDR2 roleplays are basically made for boomers and incredibly insecure men who use voice changers and almost exclusively roleplay as 7'6" handsome gigachads.

>>718901393
Costume modders in particular are pretty notorious for doing this. Fighting games, gacha games, wrestling games, basically anything that uses 3d models. Though that also provides us with hilarity when someone publically leaks their shit. Some of them just completely lose their shit. There are a fuckton of GTA5 modders on patreon too, outside of the weird fivem escrow enviroment.

>>718910513
>>718910570
GTA (Online) is world of warcraft for people who are smart enough to realize WoW is dogshit but not smart enough to actually play a good game.

>>718910570
I don't think you can really blame anyone for using modulation/changers in GTA. Like, 99% of the RP servers mandate voice or they boot your ass off.

Do modders just not realise that inserting monetary gain into a hobby will make it worse by 100x times? They make a big deal out of protecting their minor Patreon income (which involves editing files of a different game lol), and have massive meltdowns once it inevitably leaks.
Wait until the day Bethesda or some other studio will notice the paywalled mods and then proceed to cut you off completely, so they can create their own retarded system.

Can somebody explain this lawlet why paywalling vidya mods is legal but paywalling written fanfiction is not?
Unless I'm a retard and both ard illegal, just less enforced in the former's case.

>>718910869
Legally Bethesda (mostly) can't actually do jack shit besides attempting to force people into a licensing agreement for everything they'll hypothetically make after playing a game (which is not at all how copyright law works)
The bigger problem is paywalls are shit as monetization (specifically for things like mods or small programs) compared to tip jars.

>>718911038
IF you create the assests and stuff, you own it and the files are yours. FF you own a few characters and whatever else, theres a huge difference.

>>718911038
You own your software and assets
You DO NOT own someone else's assets.
You CAN provide software that uses someone elses assets but can't distribute them yourself.
Fanfiction necessarily only exists with the assets of someone else's work, although you could quite easily just put in the work to actually substitute the IP with your own.
There's a lot of DnD alternatives that work this way.

>>718901497
To become a modder in a first place, you have to be brain damaged autistic retard as a mandatory prerequisite. A man without cognitive impairments will not do work like this for free in his free time. Hence, how they behave.

>>718911112
>Legally Bethesda (mostly) can't actually do jack shit besides attempting to force people into a licensing agreement for everything they'll hypothetically make after playing a game
Thank god.
>The bigger problem is paywalls are shit as monetization (specifically for things like mods or small programs) compared to tip jars.
Yeah, I agree, tipping has been working out so far.

modders should adopt the rimworld model, where the dev farms cash from tipping and do mod commissions for fat buck

We're at the point where a formerly free manual transmission script for singleplayer GTA V has its own fucking DRM. So yeah I'd say all paid modders deserve the rope.
https://oversteerengineering.com/licgen-readme

>>718911207
Also to bear in mind Copyright law almost exclusively applies to commercial endeavours or where a sufficiently large non-commercial endeavour could demonstrably cause definable damages.

>>718900482 (OP)
No, because that greedy fat kike Gabe opened pandora's box by bringing it into public consciousness and mainstream discussion. He is the very cause of it. I'm tired of all the people constantly trying to suck Gabe off whenever he makes shit moves.

>>718911381
what the fuck

>>718911813
dumb frogposter

>>718900593
Actual secure watermarking is hard and isn't even done in porn where there would be actual money to be made from it and where you can get actually sued by actual corporate lawyers if you get caught (or rather no because it's not proof in court anyway), why do you think some 16 year old who does nude mods for skyrim would do it?

>>718900482 (OP)
Steam is fucking terrible as a mod platform and I can still mod the shit out of my games for free, just because others cuck out to get one extra costume mod amongst the thousands doesn't mean I have to

>>718911207
>You own your software and assets
I find it insane that mods for a game is covered by this and that the reason why is that American courts misinterpreted the Threshold of Originality clause in the Berne convention