Thread 718902630

We can't have 2 mainstream ARGPs you gotta pick 1

>>718902630 (OP)
Diablo 4 understands the essence of the genre far better than POE2, which like its predecessor is designed to be an endless grind.

>>718902630 (OP)
I hate GGG more than Blizzard, so I'd take Diablo 4. Both companies deserve to die, though.

>>718904553
so what is the essence of the genre?

>>718904692
endless grind

>>718902630 (OP)
I liked the bit I played of PoE2 but the particle effects consistently killing my FPS pushed me away and I haven't went back to it.
D4 was mindless fun but I stopped caring.

How is Grim Dawn?

>>718904692
Making a character, having an idea for a build, and powering the character up. POE is about grinding: grinding through the campaign to get to endgame, grinding maps at endgame, grinding for loot, grinding for currency, grinding the league mechanic,...

>>718904692
spamming one attack over and over so you can get a pellet from the machine and thinking you're good at video games.

>>718904810
I quite like grim dawn but it has its flaws. There is not much difference in playstyles, it's more of a numbers game. It's also pretty ez if you know what you're doing. You can't go as fast and shit generally doesn't get as crazy as PoE. There is much less endgame content although there's still a good amount. It's very balanced and nothing all that extreme is possible. Despite that, making builds in GD is a lot of fun. The community ("season") mod is good if you want more endgame.

>>718902630 (OP)
We already did and it's poe1

POE 2 is closer to Diablo 2, which is the best ARPG ever made, whereas Diablo 4 is just corpo committee made slop. Not to say POE 2 is good though, I mean it is, but it's not anywhere near as good as it should be

>>718904553
d4 is not an arpg at this point
there's no comparing these 2 games. You can attempt comparing LE, Grim yawn and many others
you can compare lost ark and d4 at this point. And d4 would still lose to LA

>>718904692
>click click click click click click click click click click click click click click clack click click click click click click click click click click click

>>718907951
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TovqogviVU

>>718902630 (OP)
POE would be perfect if it didn't turn into MMO-lite slop. Unfortunately MMOslop is the fate of all ARPG type games eventually after enough feature bloat. Including looter shooters.

>Play exclusively one game genre
>there's 2-3 very decent games in the genre
>.... NO I GOTTA MAKE WAR

>>718904692
the only genre I can play as THE necromancer

>>718902630 (OP)
D4 had too many hands involved in making it. I assume it's going to be bad, so I didn't play it. I don't know if I missed out. After D3 I don't want to get burned again

>>718902630 (OP)
actually we can. in fact we should have more.

you unfortunately do not understand the free market.

>>718902630 (OP)
diator 4 is not a mainsream arpg, its a dead game
the only choice is between poe1 and 2

isnt D4 the same Attack power/Amor power for every class slop like D3? what 'rpg'?

>you gotta pick between trash live service garbage and trash live service garbage
No thanks. I pick Grim Dawn and Chronicon.

>>718902630 (OP)
I'll just go play grim dawn or something. These two games suck ass.

chinkslop marketing shill is here every day with these cringe threads

>>718909135
>diator 4 is not a mainsream arpg, its a dead game
boomer here who hasn't played diablo since 3 (on launch)
is diablo 4 that bad?

poo2 is shit but has potential
d4 is unsalvageble

>>718906192
>POE 2 is closer to Diablo 2
No it is not, POE1 was, like a decade ago if even that.

>>718904970
>Making a character, having an idea for a build, and powering the character up
are you implying that this doesnt exist in poe

>>718913767
It is okay, but it really doesn't know what it want to be which hurts it the most. There are vestiges of like 3-4 different iterations of d4 in the game all stitched together into something working.

>>718908070
Kind of thiss. (((retention))) and content stretch ruins the poe and we still did not recover from 3.15 disaster or whatever it was.
For some reason I werent exactly excited about a balance patch since then.

>>718913558
>last human user of the bot-exclusive website spotted

>>718902630 (OP)
i just play project diablo 2
no point moving from here

>>718913767
It cant exactly pick direction or what kind of game it wants to be so it tries to do everything and, therefore, obviously, is either mediocre or shit at everything.
Story is nonsensical and is not exactly giving people what they even want/expect.
You dont fight diablo in diablo game and you dont fight mephisto in mephisto-themed DLC, and no dog does not count. This is nonsensical and done for no other purpose than "subvert expectations" or whatever current writers consider a peak literature. Because it surely as fuck not "we do not want to use prime evils too early". Its 4th game, ffs.
Gameplay wise it cant decide if it wants to be ARPG or MMO daily themepark with events and useless busywork.

Ironically PoE2 FUCKING SOMEHOW fell into a lot of same pitfalls.
For examble they said multiple times that PoE1 story is nonsence and they want to do it better. PoE2 comes out and plot goes fucking retarded right after Geonor fight. Things barely make sense (you have to accept a lot of retarded shit for story to play out) and is barely better than PoE1.

>>718913767
its not an arpg
same exact story as with d3, its a wow with a top down camera
it has zero choices, gameplay dictated by meta, all items are boring stats stics and infinite dps bugs every season
also giga milked + seasonpass + dlc + mtx shop in a paid game

>>718904692
zero to hero

>>718902630 (OP)
Is D4 mainstream if it has like 5k players?

>>718915558
Problem is blizzard chickened out of making it lost ark like top down mmo, which honestly would be better direction than this noncommittal pussyfooting they do with d4.

PoE 1 every time and it's not even close. Better builds, bosses, itemization, crafting. It's a game for galaxy brain chads.

Diablo 4 fucking sucks, Blizzard hasn't made a good game in like 15 years. It merely rides off the success of Diablo 2. Cookie cutter garbage for dad gamers and consoletards.

>>718915985
they have no capablity to create anything of value since dei killed them

>>718902630 (OP)
Both of these are absolutely dogshit and not real video games. Go play an actual video game and stop making dumb bait threads

>>718915383
POE2 was clearly in dev hell and got scrapped several times over, last year early access build was put together in half a year to push at least something out, you can't convince me otherwise.

>>718902630 (OP)
ARPGS are like bethesda games. They're for dumb casuals who don't want to play anything but want to shit up /v/ regardless.

>>718915882
I thought it had 200,000 players

>>718915383
>For example they said multiple times that PoE1 story is nonsense
said who? poe1 story is pretty straight forward.
>start out as bum exiled to derelict continent
>make your way and grow in power level until encounter black legion (gravicious, piety, dominus)
>smash through it and make your way into the beast, containment prison for all the big bads of wraelcast
>smash the beast and release everybody
>get back to oriath for revenge flick
>big bad all across wraelcast wrecking havoc. turns out oriath (the island) was a cannibal den complete with its man eating god before the templars
>now trek across the continent again to contain all the big bads unleashed from prison
>confront cannibal island and smash it
>the atlas, end game, is a device opening portals into infinite loops of alternate worlds with infinite variations of outcomes. that also inhabit cosmic entities like the maven
>they also contain previous characters, like zanas former party members, that grew too powerful and were consumed by the desire of infinite slaughter for infinite power (typical arpg character)

only parts about poe 1 world building that are iffy are mostly league mechanics bolted on to the core mechanics. like heist or settlers

I dont get these complaints about arpg stories being always bad. root cause seems to be most arpg players have the attention span of a goldfish and would much rather start mapping at level 1 in a free roam format with zero plot. some even seem to take pride in skipping every piece of text, no matter how short they are

>>718902630 (OP)
If you're dumb enough to play diablo you should not be on this website and with the addition of async trade poe is no different than diablo in terms of being for dumbasses. The smaller games, like grim dawn and last epoch, are even worse.

>>718916337
PoE2 tried to be something other than that and the result was the player count getting cut in half or so.

>>718902630 (OP)
You shouldn't be playing ARPGs at all.

>>718916535
>said who? poe1 story is pretty straight forward.
Devs. You are looking into it from the wrong angle. You are going from hobo to beating random corrupting guys to slaying literal gods to eldritch cosmic battle on the pace that make power trip anime looks nonsensical.
I do not even remember which GGG devs said they basically regret going full godslayer by the middle of the story and one of the reasons PoE2 exists (apparently togetier with new animation tech) was said story rework. It was back prior or during first exilecon so things changed a lot as >>718916337 said.

So Diablo iv then

>>718908008
This unironically would have been good to have on loop in the background for bow druid pre-rework in median xl.

>>718902630 (OP)
poe2 is just slower poe which is ehh. d4 is built like a f2p mobile gaas sloppa and it shows. much rather play titan quest 1 with more enemies mod when I get the urge to kill some time

>>718904970
look d2 was like this because there were no respecs so you'd have to go in with an idea that im making a fireball sorc or frozen orb sorc
you shouldn't have to lock yourself to a single build or idea anymore

>>718902630 (OP)
If you insist OP. I have made my choice.

is D4 finished? i didn't play it yet, figured i'd let them fix it up first

>>718902630 (OP)
Just play a real video game instead of this crappy genre. If I had to play ARPGs in their current state I feel I'd get more enjoyment out of pulling off one of my shoelaces and practicing tying knots for a few hours instead. It would simply be preferable to not play video games at that point. And no, diablo 2 isn't good either.

>>718902630 (OP)
sooner not play either

>>718918179
Kinda, hemorrhaging leadership, constantly layoffs from M$, player turn out for each season is less and less.
They already leaked their next expansion will feature Paladins, no one cares, news gained no traction.

They're prob pivoting to Diablo 5.

>>718902630 (OP)
Easily poe2. Even at EA state it's better than D4. Waiting for August 29.

The genre refused to move forward and POE is no different. Diablo 2 was and will always be when the genre peaked. Hell POE2 has LESS features compared to the original diablo 2(grim as af)

>>718919180
i meant finished as in a finished videogame. but that expansion thing answered it anyway

why not both?
why not more than two?

>>718919224
PoE2 and D4 are the same exact casual garbage. You can't parrot the whole D4 bad thing when GGG casualized the entire game after Chris left, it's the same exact dogshit now and you're better off playing neither. There is nothing poe2 does that d4 doesn't, its not an actual video game like poe used to be.

>>718919387
One is way too many to begin with. If you're playing 2 arpgs you don't have time for anything else.

>>718908214
diablo 3 is better than poe2 and d4 combined

>>718902630 (OP)
Diablo hasn't been worthwhile since 2. Obviously it's PoE2, regardless of your feelings on it, exclusively because of how fucking terrible Diablo IV is.

>>718919525
Diablo 2 isn't good either unless you played it on release, online, with actual people. It's a terrible game to play now.

>>718919581
If you don't like D2 you simply don't like the entire genre given that basically every ARPG afterwards followed in its footsteps.

>>718919406
>You can't parrot the whole D4 bad thing when GGG casualized the entire game after Chris left
Yes they can.

Streamer said DIV bad and POE2 good , except both of them bad.

>>718906192
it's not finished yet. the base mechanics are there for it to become the goat arpg.

>>718902630 (OP)
both are shit play diablo 2

>>718919651
>If you don't like D2 you simply don't like the entire genre
Sure that's fine. D2 is an objectively bad game for retards that was praised for being a social game. I'm totally fine with this whole genre being bad, because it is.

>>718919804
D2 is not a better use of your time. It's absolutely braindead, basically a screensaver.

>>718919945
If you don't even like the genre, why are you in this thread?

>>718920096
How is it a "genre"? Where is the gameplay? What is the gameplay of diablo 2?
>mash m1 without looking at screen
>hit max gold
>gamble at vendor for res gear
>farm countess for runes (optional)
>rinse and repeat
Where is the video games?

>>718920257
That doesn't answer the question. If you don't care about these games, why are you in this thread?

>>718920096
I liked Sacred (first one), can we go back to arpgs being Sacred?

>>718920096
He's right and it's pretty annoying that people blindly praise diablo 2 like it's the second coming of christ when it's like a 3/10 game with cool music

>>718920341
3/10 would be something that barely functions even as intended, you are a contrarian.

>>718920338
I gave you an answer. Now tell me how diablo is a genre. What is the gameplay that defines it? It doesn't have any gameplay.

>>718920397
>I gave you an answer.
No? Where did you answer "Why are you in this thread"?

>>718920397
>What is the gameplay that defines it?
Number go up.

>>718902630 (OP)
>still no paladin, still no news about the paladin
this game sucks

>>718920456
So you've got no defense for praising this garbage for post about every single day for months if not years. Got it. These are exactly the games that shouldn't be played.

>>718920257
>what is the gameplay of [title]?
>you just click pixel
>rinse and repeat
>where is the video games

>>718920772
Are you going to answer my question or not?

>>718919804
/thread

Install every new season
Stop playing once it gets boring

Simple as.

>>718920816
If you can't defend a single aspect of the genre why is there a permanent general on it? This is pretty degenerate. No one should listen to you, huh?

>>718919180
>They already leaked their next expansion will feature Paladins
there's been no such leak, someone found some code that could hint to that, but too vague to be of any value

>>718920950
nta but why can't you answer a simple question lmao. how sad are you to get into a thread about a genre you don't like only to complain about it. fag misery

>>718920950
Are you going to answer the question or not?

>>718920797
Except that's not how real video games work. For example, people like to meme that a fps is just clicking on heads, but an fps that is just that is bad and won't be remembered.
https://youtu.be/sw5YbWQ8KcM
The gameplay mechanics that pushed ARPGs from "just clicking on heads" were the social interactions and trade, and those have been optimized away. There's nothing unique or memorable about any of these games, in fact the people in these threads screech about poe's orb system constantly when it's the actual gameplay part of the game. The retards dictating poe2's direction want that shit gone entirely and want to passively be spoonfed upgrades. It's not video games. You don't like video games.

>>718921121
Fuck off Chris, go bath in your millions and sniff your VISION farts somewhere else.

>>718921337
Not a single argument to be found here. You don't want to play a video game. These generals are a waste of catalogue space. I answered your questions in detail and fully explained my position. You have nothing because you don't actually play any real video games.

>>718902630 (OP)
It's not simply about preferring one over the other, it's about objectively recognizing that one represents everything wrong with the current state of the industry.

>PoE
Devs sound like they have some semblance of an idea of what they're doing. They're by far one of the most transparent studios out there and it's not even fucking close. The way they communicate clearly with their audience and are upfront when something is an issue is almost unprecedented. There are even indie studios and devs that fail at this level of communication and openness to feedback.

>D4
Like most other bloated AAA studios owned by large western publishers, too many people working there either don't know what they're doing, or are actively sabotaging the whole project. Who knows if Rod Fergusson leaving will improve things, but the way they're already fumbling with the Discord shit and axing the campfire streams entirely is already a red flag.

>>718921582
>Devs sound like they have some semblance of an idea of what they're doing
Not any more lol

>>718921582
>Devs sound like they have some semblance of an idea of what they're doing.
PoE2 is so half baked that completing the end game gave you an "atlas unlocked" achievement because it's a spaghetti coded mod for poe1.

>>718921424
Nobody responds you in a good faith because you went into a thread clearly hating the subject. You preemptively shrugged off possible reason people could enjoy said genre, and you cannot even answer a simple "why are you even here", which I will be at least third anon to ask.
Who the fuck is going to discuss game or genre with someone who does not play said games?
>>718921582
>>718921651
It looks like at some point PoE2 lost "strong leadership", aka the person who sets up the said "vision" and ultimately decides how the game will play out.
Like, we had some retarded dev that was adamant on uniques not having life on them unless having life as an unique "theme", which was one of two reasons overwhelming majority of unique items are fucking garbage even if you find them during actual leveling (other being socket pressure which PoE2 at least fixed).
Same with current giant-ass zones. Everyone and their mother told GGG current A3 and some other zones are fucking retarded. Even GGG agreed that zones are just too large for no reason and nothing will make it fun. Their solution was not changing of algo, but adding sprint because probably, as with uniques, some rat in high level development team refuses to back down on his vision of those huge empty act zones for whatever reason.

>>718922026
>good faith
Whenever someone starts spouting shit like this you can just tell they're operating on the level of a mollusk and don't think about anything they consume. An argument is an argument, doesn't matter who makes it or why. You aren't some moral arbiter who arbitrarily decides what's right or wrong. This is purple haired lesbian behavior, being triggered over reality because it hurt your feelings and goes against your ideology.

>d4 bad
>jonathan is a fucking retard
i'll just play poe1 for its annual season and move on

>>718902630 (OP)
Okay POE2 easy.

>>718922313
They're going to ruin poe1 next, mercs was already super questionable and threw currency and uniques at people like Halloween candy.

>>718902630 (OP)
only the dadist of dad gamers like diablo 4
wanted to like it but its trash
the devs dont know how to be creative or have fun
doubt they even play the game

>>718921582
>Devs sound like they have some semblance of an idea of what they're doing.
Not so fast check this shit out

>POE 2

Also

>Hot amazon with abs in Diablo IV

simple as.

>>718922391
Mercs are going core arent they? Hell they even make link skills something but a party play utility, GGG loves this shit.

>>718922406
>only the dadist of dad gamers like diablo 4
How is that different than poe2? People only brainlessly parroted the dad gamer thing because they thought it was going to be like poe1 and it's not. It's more like diablo 4. Now poe is bleeding players, it lost like 95% of its playerbase, they're doing free weekends just like d4, and it's steam rating is plummeting.

>>718922204
It's funny that you still can't answer the question.

>>718922489
>lost 95%
To be fair their 0.2 peak was like 50% of initial and that patch was absolute fucking garbage even compared to sorry state 0.1 released in. I wonder how many people trading will bring back, because I seem to under/overestimate how important is trade for some people.

>>718920339
Can we go back to name these games hack'n'slash?

>>718922547
Your question was answered and I said more about arpgs and how they actually work in this thread than anyone. You can't be honest about why you waste time on this garbage because then no one would play it and you'd look like an idiot. You can only try to dishonestly deceive people and awkwardly step around actual discussion, ultimate poseur behavior.

>>718922662
Please point to the post where you answered "Why are you here if you don't like the genre?".

>>718922590
>I wonder how many people trading will bring back
It was enough to make me drop poe entirely and I think the people who wanted async don't actually play very much. If anything I think it will be a big hit on Chinese servers.

>>718922714
>>718921121
I already made a case argument for what the appeal of poe was and why genre is misleading.

>>718902630 (OP)
>Love getting stronger and watching numbers go up.
>Love looting.
>Hate crafting
>Hate live service always online seasonal trash.

I belong...nowhere. only Titan Quest and Grim Dawn have ever made me feel happy. Any other ARPGs for brain dead people like me?

>>718922778
That's not what my post said. Reread it.

>>718922454
>Not so fast check this shit out
What? D4?
>Hot amazon with abs in Diablo IV
Yes, I too exclusively play isometric games to goon at characters barely visible during actual gameplay.

>>718922662
>why
it's fun to watch number go up and pick up rare drops to explode enemies faster and watch number go up, that's all

>>718922828
You're post didn't say anything of substance, it's just petulant whining that you're pretending is a gotcha. The catalogue is very small, if you can't even do this much you shouldn't be here.

>>718922861
How is that any different from gacha?

>>718922883
So you still won't answer the question?

>>718922926
it's free and there are no fomo mechanics (im talking about sacred, d2, and titan quest)

>>718922817
No, genre is pretty much dead outside of live service garbage and mods. I did not enjoy any of "pixel" arpgs (hero siege and another one) either.
Grim Dawn devs fucked up by announcing their DLC years before they are ready.
Fuck they STILL have no release date, and we do not even know what exactly takes them that long.

>>718922926
Well, big difference would be the method of said power acquisition. Some people enjoy the process, some people enjoy crafting builds for themselves/others to use or fix said builds.
>how is that any different
Its like saying that some mobile P2W pvp arena shit and RTS are the same thing because core idea of both games is to win your opponent.

>>718922998
Lots of gacha is free, uma musume only utilizes p2p for pvp. It's an extremely cynical view of games, don't you think?
>numbers go up so I'm happy
It's no different than countless phone games and idle clickers. Why not play factorio where you're physically sticking your hands in the meat of it all and modularly increasing logistical input and throughput via your own machinations? You kills tens of thousands of enemies in that game and progression is relentlessly ever going upward.

>>718923165
>some people enjoy crafting builds for themselves/others to use or fix said builds
None of that is in poe2 and it's gone in poe1 because the whole game is just rushing HH into MB then spamming cluster gems.

>>718923225
Why stay in a thread if you don't like the genre the thread is about?

>>718923282
Well, generally I agree, clusters and especially (((chase uniques))) are fucking garbage. Even then
1) Its still about hundred hours of active play to reach that state, and it requires probably at least few thousands of hours of game experience to reach that pace.
2) You are not exactly forced to use them if you do not want to, the different question is "outside of pavlovian RNG shit is it even anything interesting for you to do after you played this game for 3-6-8-14 years", which isnt exactly a game's fault either.

>>718923225
gacha f2p'ness is often a facade - they eventually go mask off and ask for money to progress. I don't like that. I did play factorio and liked it. sometimes I just want to turn my brain off and see numbers go up though. idlers or clickers are too passive and don't know when to stop, losing me completely when the numbers reach levels of 1e10+

>>718923545
>gacha f2p'ness is often a facade
In the example given its not.
>sometimes I just want to turn my brain off
But all the games you play are like that.

>>718923779
If you don't like the games why are you here?

>>718923836
Because I know more about them than you do and this is a board for discussing video games, not flagrant fanboyism, which is against the rules and a reportable offense. Next question please.

>some seasons launch bugged to near unplayable states
>the players WILL beta test in the PTR otherwise the season launches fucked
>expansion did a stat squish at bricked 90% of all uniques that are still bricked to this day
>expansion cost 40% and gave us a 25% bigger map with the same content of the original game along with a class nobody asked for (some poe seasons give more then this and the game free and this is a SEASON not expansion)
>major bugs can last multiple seasons even when people constantly bitch they want them fixed
>no diablo in diablo
>no cow level in diablo
>no set items in diablo (the games been out over two years)
>TEMPERING EVERYONE wants it changed and or removed "everyone"
>players ask for better end game and the D4 devs google a poe end game fight and add phases to D4 bosses thinking this is what they meant when its not
>the end game meta right now is buy/trade for duped boss mats for the ONE boss that doesn't have phases
>dupes
>diablo immortal gets cool cross-overs and D4 doesn't
>when D4 does get a cross-over we gotta pay for it while diablo immortal gets it for free (D4 had to buy berserk skins if they wanted them & immortal got them for free)
>its known that the mass majority of the players are unhappy with the game and the response to this was to overhaul the in battle pass system
>many feel that not only is this one of if not the most predatory battle pass system to date but its also a downgrade to the original in ways
>the game (though not common) will throw a pop-up to visit the in-game shop which can and has killed players (hardcore players)
>they have patched the in game shop which caused lag while patching killing players (hardcore players)
>poe has mercs, D2 has mercs, D3 has mercs, D4 mercs that aren't mercs and instead a walking cosmetic, you cant equip them, they are just walking shitty buffs

As a shit eater I promise everyone PoE2 is better, im pretty sure Diablo 4 is already in maintenance mode right now

>>718923779
never heard of the game in your example. couldn't care less about some gook tripe to be honest
>all the games you play are like that
you only know I played three hns games and factorio

>>718923940
>D3 has mercs
Wait D3 has WHAT? Since then?

>>718923958
What are the last 3 games you played? I know you're playing crap because the board is full of crap, it's just that easy.

Sex with Risu

>>718902630 (OP)
>top-down
>action
lol

>>718923914
>Because I know more about them than you do
Hard to believe considering you've spent 90% of the time bitching and moaning about their mere existence. Sounds like you're just using that as an excuse, though you've been doing that this whole time anyway.

>>718902630 (OP)
We can't have one good ARGP, because we have two shitty ones.

>>718924037
darkest hour, kf1, abiotic factor

>>718924204
Show me a thread that's not just a picture of box art or a banner that's not just flimsy pretense for casually engaging with the worst slop imaginable. Look at the catalogue and find me the games that aren't that. Those are the games worth playing.

OP image is literally copied from a clickbait article.
https://medium.com/slay-the-meta/diablo-4-vs-path-of-exile-2-a-newcomers-honest-comparison-a0cab297b8d0

Rest assured, any OP like this is a game that should be avoided at all costs.

>>718924307
So 2 rpgs, the most hyper casual passive genre, and a survival crafting zoomer game. Excellent.

>>718923019
tl;dr they are currently so successful that they can afford to continue enabling their notorious feature creep and adding in MOAR and working on it for as long as they want
>https://forums.crateentertainment.com/t/fangs-of-asterkarn-development-update-june-2025/146114

>>718902630 (OP)
Man they are both so ass. Instead of making the best arpg ever they are in an arms race to make the most retarded piece of shit game ever made.
And they are both neck to neck.

>>718924398
He's working on it because he can't afford to make a new game in a better engine and the dev is a notorious astroturfer and liar.

>>718902630 (OP)
Give me POE 2 with the combat of Lost Ark. Or just Lost Ark but developed by people instead of corporate money-sucking robots.

>>718924504
>he's working
>Crate is one dev
What in the absolute retardation is this?

>>718902630 (OP)
Poe 2 has one of the best campaign modes in the ARPG genre. Even the three acts that are currently available feel like they were worth the money I paid for the game

>>718924560
Go finish your shit game dude

>>718924376
they're fps games though. you totally do not seem miserable

>>718924398
To be fair I encourage this approach, but only if I wont read "well we did not sell enough, time to sell our asses to big corpo or we will have to shut down" afterwards.
Like certain retarded game about epochs did recently despite even being moderately successful.

Still have no idea where
>they are currently so successful that they can afford to continue enabling their notorious feature creep
that steady income flow even comes from, unless D4/PoE2 is such garbage new people flock to traditional ARPGs by the word of mouth alone.

>>718922590
I quite like POE2 but I fucking hate the trading system. Dealing with bots, AFKers, price fixers, and all the other bullshit sucks. Just let me buy the damn item. Traditional trading forums have their own bot problems but I'll take that over what we have now.

>>718924642
The dev literally stated like a year ago that he's broke.

>>718924589
>make up random semantic lies
You will always be a psychotic 14-25 year old newfag.
>>718924642
They've gotten numerous offers from publishers to buy them out but the owner of Crate is immune to greed and doesn't want to deal with that.
>steady income flow
They sold ~1.5 mil copies of Farthest Frontier IIRC, the exact details of FF profits is in the post I linked you. Not sure where that weird shitposting newfag came from.

>>718923545
>gacha f2p'ness is often a facade
You realize poe economy is driven by rmah Chinese trading right?

>>718924741
>You will always be a psychotic 14-25 year old newfag.
I'm 35 years old. I've been here longer than you've been alive, sadly.

>>718924741
Grim Dawn is complete slop and the only person who posts about it here is a militant brony.

>>718924839
>make up random lies
You will always be a psychotic 14-25 year old newfag.
>>718924863
>only person who posts about it here is a militant brony.
Whoa another newfag rears its ugly head.

>>718924898
You're the newfag and you're only here to astroturf. I, an actual oldfag, remember the asshole rogue janny spamming the game constantly and banning anyone who said anything negative about it.

>>718924898
Grim Dawn sucks ass dude. It has zero gameplay.

>>718924994
>only one person on all of 4chan talks about Grim Dawn
>janny janny janny
Are you the newfag nigger making up members of video game dev teams? You will always be a psychotic 14-25 year old newfag.

>>718924782
yea that's why I don't play it

>>718924741
Yeah I know crate arent greedy guys and Zentai is actually quite communicative, had a chance to talk to him few times as he often visits places related to GD like some streams and such and is pretty open about things he can talk about.
>they are currently so successful that they can afford to continue enabling their notorious feature creep
Oh, I did not read further into thread and only ran trough initial misadventure post about the general DLC scope.

Actually, now I am also genuinely surprised how well FF sold, I was under an impression it would flop because its a game in complete different genre and usually such turnaround ends bad for small dev teams, and I also never exactly saw discussions about game either. Guess they had really good data analysis before shifting their next project into that direction, huh.

>>718924994
I remember getting banned for posting a webm of myself playing the game and saying it was bad.

>>718925120
Lets totally organically out of the blue turn this into a grim dawn general now which is magically immune to all criticisms, and can only be blindly praised and never discussed. I'm sure theres about to be one hundred totally organic posts about how grim dawn is the best game ever.

>>718925101
Yah Zantai is cool. Obviously jaded by having to deal with fucking retarded internet randoms for around decade and a half but it is what it is.
>an impression it would flop because its a game in complete different genre
Hell I would expect it to be their most successful (and well, it was). The owner of Crate initially got his job at Iron Lore because he was so good at Age of Empires 2 at the time so I'd trust the guy to make an RTS. I think he even typed up some longpost years back about how/why the RTS genre is dead (costs lots of money and has been turned into a primarily multiplayer genre, iirc.)

>>718902630 (OP)
>try dibbles 4 as druid because i like werewolves
>get a legendary two-hander with double dmg basic earth attack
>standing still holding down the basic attack is more efficient than anything cool i could do
ok maybe trap rogue will be fun without being shit?

>>718902630 (OP)
Why did the ARPG genre become an overly-complicated slot machine? Why didnt anyone ever think to make a decent, fun, single-player experience or a good PvP system like Nox?

>>718925089
its funny because GD does a lot of things well and usually appreciated even by PoE players.
I'd get if it we were talking about Sacred or fucking Dungeon Siege (3 heh) and someone went shizo, but not GD or TQ of all examples.
>>718925261
Yeah, I was going from the fact genre isnt exactly extremely popular, especially nowdays, especially compared to blockbusters like moviegames, gacha and all, but I guess drought of games in said genre makes fans more focused on new releases.

>>718925449
Because Nox isn't even an ARPG and it's an unfinished idea guys game that people have nostalgia goggles for because it's quirky. And it's not even a single player game, it's supposed to be multiplayer. It's like Magicka, but dogshit. But you don't play games so why would you know about that?

>>718925120
no community has more faggots than poe

>>718925454
>GD does a lot of things well
It doesn't do a single thing well. The entire game is a passive experience and plays like a single player mmo. This is such an odd thing to say. It literally plays like a Korean grinder.

>>718925449
Because it literally started that way and next things basically worked on pervious iterations.
In terms of general spiritual succession:
Diablo -> Diablo 2 (lol lmao) -> LoD -> Sacred/TQ -> GD/D3 -> PoE -> D4 -> LE -> PoE2
I hope I did not fucked up order with things like LE and GD because they were in EA for eternity.
I fucking wish we get Sacred game with at least TQ2 level of control/polish, it might be _fun_

>>718925642
Cope and seethe, name a better ARPG

>>718925454
It's all newfag rhetoric toward games they don't like. I've seen the deterioration of any civil discourse worsen in real time over the past many years. Anyhow thanks for the conversation. Right now Crate is doing so well that they are working on
>new engine (for GD2)
>GD+the expansion
>Farthest Frontier
>a survival horror game

>>718925742
Any thing with an active economy.

>>718925768
You're getting a little too obvious with the samefagging again.

>>718925204
To be fair GD's main issue is its still fucking TQ engine in essence, and its limitations are fucking laughable, I guess Crate will have to expand engine a lot because so far it cant do a lot of things, like they did already with initial GD release.
I was modding GD a while ago but there was some funny shit where skill tree were limited to 32 entires or something, and Crate had to create a different template for GD's much more cramped skill trees to work properly.
I believe even currently GD still has some really funny limitation on amount of level tiles (i.e. how big map can be) because at some point engine just cant read more.

>>718924994
>>718925118
>>718925204
>>718925642
>>718925772
>>718925831
You're getting a little too obvious with the samefagging again.

>>718902630 (OP)
poe2 not even close, even in its release state

>>718925768
Yeah thank you too.
I am now at least not as concerned about GD DLC. Without FF sales it looked like they stretched too thin and we might never seen their initial "we will make FF and some other to kickstart GD2 because engine holds us back" plan I remember they had.

>>718922831
>Yes, I too exclusively play isometric games to goon at characters barely visible during actual gameplay.
Nice.

>>718925873
>To be fair GD's main issue is its still fucking TQ engine in essence
Its main issue is is having a vapid talent system where you have to level up the same ability 20 times, awful repetitive and static open world zones with no regard for level design, (why not just procgen them at this point) MMO style quests, and atrocious itemization. And you should feel really bad for calling people newfags when you clearly are one.
>>718925649
Nox is literally right here dude. Excuse the quality because this footage is super fucking old, like 10+ years old. I don't know why people have forgotten entire eras of video games but jerk off old shit. I don't know who's to blame for this. Its like normalfag tourists from twitter moved into 4chan that clearly haven't been consistently playing video games over the years.

>>718904692
Not grinding Baal runs, that's for fucking certain.

>>718907951
What video game doesn't involve pressing buttons?

>>718926550
You don't know shit about ARPGs, nig-nog.

>>718905083
Show us your lvl 100 HC character that spams a single button

>>718902630 (OP)
name a more incel genre

>>718926550
To be fair I do have good impessions about nox, and magicka even had a large following when it was "actual", but for some reason whole industry just threw away and forgot everything magica invented/popularized and instead essentionally decided to buttfuck Diablo's corpse by adding entities and featurecreep it.

Btw right now PoE2 devs are trying to figure out how to make combo skills work for almost a year already, and even your webm has answer on that question.
1) Make combo shit feel cool.
2) Make combo shit effective in what it does.

>>718902630 (OP)
D4 is dead as fuck anon.

>>718926896
>its supposed to be shit, you're a newfag if you dont eat shit!
then all arpgs are bad and dont deserve to be played then

>>718926501
I'm surprised they ever even decided to make Fangs (of Asterkarn). They said around the release of FG that expansion packs have diminishing returns regarding profit. I thought that the release of Diablo 4 was so poor that maybe it attracted more fans looking for something different to fill the gap but hell I don't know.

>>718927007
You got it. The genre is being led by fat retards who got fixated on Diablo 2 and can't move on from trying to chase that primitive high.

>>718902630 (OP)
PoE2
>owned by chinks
>actually good
>camera angle got improved
>more content
>actual depth so it dont get boring after 1000 hours
>f2p

diabling 4
>owned by woke dei microsoft who only care about niggers and women
>0 content
>world and dungeons built with 5 second stopgaps to pad playtime
>terrible zoomed in camera
>lgbt cosmetics
>druid m/f looks the same because they are ugly woke bastards
>gameplay, art leads are fat ugly brown women and others with no videogame experience
>niggers in sanctuary who happen to be leaders
>skill trees are "this" or "that"
>$60 expansions to an already shallow game
>they/them storyline
>all maps look same
>i"mproves rolling by 0.125% when shocked by an elite while being overweight" type of loot

Poe2 wins hands down. It is currently incomplete and largely dogshit, but has juge potential. 0.2 lightning spear was a blast to play, most other builds are tedious shit atm. 0.3 sounds like build variety will be much better, but the endgame content is still way too sparse. By 1.0 I'm confident it'll be as good as poe1 was ~5yrs ago.
Poe1 is still the best arpg, but I'd say its now so bloated and min/maxxed too much
Grim Dawn is worth a single playthrough but too slow
Tq2 has potential
Le is mid but has potential, i dont like the itemization so far

>>718926926
Well, it we are talking recent leagues, LS EE smite trickster is essentially that.
But pretending that you just toss a smite on a shadow and cruise to HC ubers is fucking disingenious. And without actual game experience you will still throw on things like UExarch even if someone hands you down all the shit it needs to feel immortal.
|| I thought I hated A8 Sirus back in the days, but it was just buggy. Gods I hate UExarch ||
>>718927110
Yeah I was really surprised that they went for DLC for game that was, even by their admission, is a maintenance mode (it still got patches and new additions on a regular basis, but still playerbase did not feel that great overall).
I guess no matter how you look at it, its still number 4 game in the genre after PoE/Diablo/LE in terms of popularity (I doubt GD and TLI has any playerbase crossing, they are basically opposite games within genre). So they can be certain they will have sales even now.
Hell, even that one weird TQ DLC revival project somewhat sold.

>>718927391
>poe2 (((vet)))
>sees (((potential))) in a shallow 2 hour long game made by germcucks who are pandering to the woke and has actual niggers in it, when the content goes so far to only offer the character two fucking spells
marketing hours, huh?

>>718927442
> ||
Dear gods I fucked it up.

>>718927491
I'm not a marketer, I'm just a poe mazzie

>>718927391
This is the objectively correct opinion to have. Just needs to include D4 as dogshit not worth bothering with.

>>718902630 (OP)
I prefer diablo 4, but both games are kinda shit.

>>718927660
I don't even think about d4, my irl bro played it and I played the beta for 2hrs but thats it

>>718927491
Wait, I am not exactly an ancient greece historian, but werent there niggas? They are basically share a water border with africa and at VERY least should've had slaves. Aethopia and sheet too.

>mfw diablo 4 is so shit that blizzard tried to hold an e-sport venue for it in Korea and nobody tuned in nor showed up for it
https://imgur.com/a/diablo-4-live-event-korea-kgYS6o3

>>718902630 (OP)
For me it's path of exile.

>>718927967
Yeah, those super advanced niggas who not only were able to cross Sahara, but also were great sailors. White men were envious of them and erased them from history books. Are you fucking retarded?

>>718928512
clearly photos from before they opened up. nice try, chud

>>718902630 (OP)
D4 is an ARPG. Poop2 is... something else. It will never be good as long as Troonathan is around.

>>718902630 (OP)
Official /v/ ARPG ranking.
PoE 2 > PoE 1 > Last Epoch > Titan Quest 2 > Grim Dawn > Titan Quest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excrement > D4

>>718926896
You got btfo

>>718928626
>mfw it was streamed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ9j4IBrQ8Q

>>718928569
'Ethiopia' is literally 'blackface', heh.
I understand that MUSA OF MALI WE TREAT WOMEN GREATLY is fucking insane, but at the very least there is no way greeks never seen or met niggas.
Were things in TQ2 bad? I did not care about story and mostly focused on gameplay so, admittingly, I skipped almost all dialogues after first boat. Also fuck talking horse loredump.

>>718929019
>asmongoloid clips
i don't know who's more retarded fact that this event was empty or that you watch this you 20iq nigger

>>718923940
I have no idea how people are still playing D4. I loved D3 after RoS and seeing how much shit has regressed in D4 is insane. The game looks awful, has a terrible story, and feels like shit to play. Open world for a diablo game is also fucking retarded.

>>718902630 (OP)
d4 is like a korean money milking game using the husk of diablo as a host. PoE2 seems to be trying dark souls style combat married with PoE systems. Pretty sure there is going to be endless bitching because PoE 2 devs must nerf and break builds if they want to maintain the slow and deliberate gameplay.

>>718902630 (OP)
Titan Quest and Grim Dawn for me

>>718902630 (OP) (OP)
Official /v/ ARPG ranking.
D2>D4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excrement > POE2 and POE1

simple as.

Seems like most people ITT don't actually like the ARPG genre and that's okay! there are plenty of other fun games for them to check out

>>718930250
Post 5 seconds of thrilling diablo 2 gameplay

>>718929926
>mfw your blood pressure rises at the mere sight of another man

>>718930452
wow pog

>>718930349
shit games doesn't spawn entire genre and 25 years worth of people trying to make their own copy
that being said, d4 is not an arpg, it's pathetic high budget mobile live service(money scam) game. That's also why people don't want d4 discussion in thrads about LE, PoE, Grim dawn and other arpgs

>>718930534
told u

>>718930485
>frogspoter being 15iq zoomer watching ecelebs
checks out

>>718930556
>LE, PoE, Grim dawn and other arpgs
All of these are also shit. It's like how people say
>BUT SKYRIM
In oblivion and morrowind threads. Now post 5 seconds of thrilling d2 gameplay.

Last Epoch?

>>718930614
>mfw you think im less intelligent yet here you are thinking about me and replying to me

>>718930630
D2 have 25 years. Im telling you the known facts.
you being a contrarian zoom zoom wont change a thing if industry tried to copy D2 success for 25 years with PoE as an example of a bald guy wanting his own d2. Unless for your zoomer brain 'exciting" gameplay is shit flashing on screen every nanosecond or your fried brain will collapse from lack of impulses

>>718930841
is fun

>>718902630 (OP)
>2

d4 absolutely clears poe2

Diablo has been dethroned ages ago and yet people still pretend it's the best arpg ever made.

>>718930953
>the known facts
What known facts? Call of Duty is a 22 year old franchise. Does that mean it's good? If I play diablo 2 right now it's dead. No one is playing it. Chat is dead quiet, the lobby is empty. Old things should be viewed more critically than new things. You praising an old game I played over 2 decades ago is not valuable information.

>>718931580
Streamer said so so it must be true!

>>718931829
It's been confirmed by Asmondgold, so shut up fool.

>>718931819
shit franchises doesn't live for 2 decades with shitton of others trying to copy it
stop beign contrarian on purpose, you look loike a zoomer faggot

>>718931912
>shit franchises doesn't live for 2 decades with shitton of others trying to copy it
Call of Duty is right there, dude. Hell the same company owns it now. It's obvious what it is.

>>718931912
>BLIZZARD INVENTED TOP DOWN CAMERA AND KILLING MONSTERS, PAY RESPECT
jesus, relax already

>>718927658
That's actually an alarming amount of time spent in a video game. I hope you are doing OK in life.

>>718932550
>best known titles in the genre are result of devs wanting either more of d2 or creating their own d2 as per their own world
>EEE YY SHITZARD DIDNT INVENT TOP DOWN
it's like telling you zoomer faggot that sky is blue, when you ask about more i say because of rayleigh scattering and then you say sky isn't blue unless i spoonfeed you whole definition of what it is. No, instead of being retarded on purpsoe spend those 5 minutes actually using google instead of expecting everyone to write wall of text about common knowledge

>>718932665
for me this is respectable amount of time and opinion of such gamer is more valuable than some normalfag scum with 40 hr tops crying on plebbit to devs to change things

I'm here for yesterdays thread to tell you that you don't have to pick, whichever game dev realises their mistake and releases a Paladin class is the one to play.

>>718927932
based

>>718902630 (OP)
Diablo 4 by a mile. POE feels like work.

>>718932813
Instead of playing video games you've been consuming a narrow scope of dogshit for the past 20+ years. You aren't knowledgable enough to have an opinion on anything.

>>718932813
>their own d2
I doubt anyone want their own d2 because d2 is a dead game.

>>718919496
Finally someone says it.

>>718922454
Does D4 even have Amazon yet?

Immortal > IV

>>718933273
>>718933278
>20 years of gaming history didn;t happen because im butthurt in 2025
some historical figures have impact on modern society to this day and them being dead doesn't change this fact
if you need someone to explain you common knowledge, then there's not even ana rgument to go about with you

>>718933441
>I've been a normalfag for 20 years so I don't have to think about what I'm playing and if it's really as good as I think it is

>>718902630 (OP)
D4, it just feels better to play.

>>718924016
Followers, as in a Templar, a Scoundrel, and an Enchantress.

>>718933495
>still noa rgument
>please spoonfeeed me on thigns anyone who wasn't born past 2010 knows already or have seen people arguing about it for years
your next line will be quake vs unreal reference mr zoomerfag

D4 Barb is fun. POE2 warrior is infuriating and hes black

>>718933621
I was born in 1989. My english teacher met her husband in diablo 2. That's what blizzard games are really about. None of that exists now. Its just an emaciated skeleton of itself, the whole genre is.

>>718925449
I wish Nox worked on my PC...

>>718928998
Where?

>>718925541
Man where's Magicka 3

>>718933378
It has a barbarian which is all your boiler plate He-Man melee classes rolled into one and jungle warrior spear class which has that classic Amazon body type
All the women but Necromancer and Druid are pretty fit if it's aesthetics you're looking for.

ARPG games not only require 1000 hours on practice / laboratory mode but also an almost equally long time of off-game research
>Analyzing and memorizing mechanics
>memorizing wikias and PoB
>watching, studying and analyzing streamers
>Hunting, reading and memorizing blogs and essays made by ARPG experts.
But even if you do all of the above you won't be able to play unless you have "the gift".
"The gift" is basically having the mental speed to be able to
>React to the enemy's action
>Analyze the current situation
>Evaluate your options
>Execute the optimal action, which can be something as simple as a Flask or something as a complex as a logout macro
On a time frame of 1/60 of a second, basically 18 milliseconds, with an error margin of 54ms. We're talking about a genre where positive and negative edge (the time a button takes to go from the press to the electric circuit inside the button / controller being closed, and the time it takes from the button being released to the button being back to its neutral state) are very important and taken into account.

So playing ARPG games are the closest in real life to a shonen protagonist having to survive years of hellish superhuman training but only managing to become powerful because he possess the innate power required to actually put said training to use.

>>718933786
Likely the part where you threw a tantrum and didn't have response after screeching that everyone who disagreed with you is a newfag for 20 posts and blatantly samefagging.

Shoutout to Torchlight and Torchlight II

>>718933842
Dead and in IP jail thanks to paradox. Fun fact: That footage is from Wizard Wars, a game that can no longer be purchased anywhere. As of last year people have figured out how to bootstrap the game onto community servers and it has a small following apparently.

>>718933002
Man I don't remember the Street Sharks looking like that

>>718934110
So that's why it's still not on GOG.

I absolutely hate Diablo 3 and 4. I have played PoE since its closed beta 15 years ago.
And if I could only play one of these 2 and had to give up on the other... at this point I would pick D4. PoE 2 is just not fun. Every design decision seems to be in opposition with their original design. The whole game is also designed from the ground up to be an infinite grind where the infinite is the main focus, its not trying to be a fun game first where you would want to play a little more. Its a miserable slog, where you hope to get something fun down the line, but that something rarely appears.

I think the devs also know they cornered themselves with PoE 2, at this point its a pump and dump, which is probably why they are opening up the beta to everyone and not just paying customers. They need funding, and if the graph of peak players drastically drops after the first league, it would spell doom for the company.
Meanwhile PoE 1 grew nearly consistently with every single league release.

>>718933770
do you need twitchviewers and active multi to let's say, play dungeon keeper or battle isle?
do you need Pitagoras alive to use his equations? no?
D2 have small, dedicated fansbase that plays to this day. yet botting with baalruns or manually fishing for that perfect rolled etheral uniques. It got more alive durning d2r and gets small bump every new ladder. The point is, you can play d2 offline and a lot of people before d2r and after does it. D2 doesn'y need to be alive, it still having onlien community further proves how great is the game that you have boomers playing it 25 years later. Meanwhile you have modern games getting dead year after release, or getting plug off becuase of mmuh always online bullshit
It's also a common fact, that d2 sold gigantic amount of copies for it's time, when gaming was for nerds and losers, making shitton fo studios trying to make their own d2 version to copy the sales. Also game was just this good, that some people like Chris Wilson decided to create a whole studio and make a D2 clone called Path of Exile. Or Last Epoch. Or many other games that either died durning development or didn't make it after release. Every single arpg after d2 was comapred to be either worse or better than D2. In grand scheme of things d2 being alive or not in 2025 doesn't matter, just like historical figures who made civilization-wide impacts despite being dead for centuries

>>718934170
Check your memory then: he was the eldest brother of the original Street Sharks.
Then they had the orca guy and shit afterwards but at the beginning it was him, tiger bro, hammerhead CHAD and the orange nigger who kept smashing stuff.
then came the extreme dinosaurs
all of which is far more interesting that either of these garbage games

>>718934291
Yep, its one of the few popular old games that has the esteemed position of having a Steam ghost page:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/202090
Its a pretty absurd situation, this was unironically a big loss and likely did have a big effect on the trajectory of game design. I always laugh when people say games used to be better, this would never fly now.

>>718934350
>D2 have small, dedicated fansbase that plays to this day
It doesn't though. Its dead and the only people left are weird degenerate blizzard fanboys that buy shit on d2jsp and duel all day.

There is an ARPG
It’s called Diablo 3

tonguing mahirposter anus

>>718934338
Are you talking about how the map system is designed, or...? I guess I don't understand how you say you've been PoE1 all this time but call PoE2 an infinite grind.

>>718934504
>it's only alive if it fits my tastes
yeach, sure, it just like a zoomer needing 100k twitch views to paly the game

>>718934668
PoE is shit now too that they added async trade.

>>718933884
Too bad, friendo; You seem to have confused me with someone else.

>>718904692
click on enemies
click on loot
rinse and repeat

I actually hate the damage Diablo 2 has done to the genre
Sadly PoE2 tried something new but people didn't like that, and now only rest of the wicked can save us, but sadly the devs are retarded.

>>718934702
good, the famous player inteeraction was 50% automated peotrade message and trade or trading with a bot
and if you wanted to buy bulk shit to farm most optimal way was using some retarded discord server makign it cancerous as fuck
I would take async any day over that fucking trove fuckery

>>718934779
>animeperson.com

>>718934406
I mean I recall that particular toy not looking as bulky. Did it get a redesign at some point?

>>718934842
>*flames*

>>718934839
Just play d4 if you want to mindlessly progress. Its the same damn game now lol

>>718934702
One of these days I'll understand why async trade makes people so assblasted.
The best option would have been a full rework of the "crafting" system and adding a way to target farm things, but you shouldnt expect GGG to do anything right.
Async trade will be fucked by default so that they can say "see it doesnt work" and roll it back.

slop genre for brainrotted retards

>>718934504
POE2 is barely ahead of D4 despite the recent patch. Ain't no way D2 isn't #1

>>718934878
I'm not sure, honestly,
Maybe they had different models depending on the country and shit?

>>718925449
Nox was too good for this wretched shitball planet full of chemical drenched demon spawn, rapeapes and cultists.

>>718934975
but enough about from software and anyone copying them

>>718934702
>>718934912
Why not just play SSF? Sperging about trade literally makes zero sense.

>>718934929
>One of these days I'll understand why async trade makes people so assblasted.
You won't because its gone now and you'll never to get to play the game for real. You'll never be in a position where you can look down from the top, fully grasp everything that's happening, and see how cool the economy was.
>The best option would have been a full rework of the "crafting" system and adding a way to target farm things
PoE2 did rework the crafting system and make it much easier for retards to use. The game has targeted farming, the 0.1 economy actually crashed because of targeted farming.
>Async trade will be fucked by default so that they can say "see it doesnt work" and roll it back.
I sure hope so, because that's the only way I'd play poe again, but I doubt it. The console versions of poe have had async trading for a long time and they suck ass.

>>718902630 (OP)
i'll just keep playing diablo 2 like i have for the past 24 years

>>718935143
>Why not just play SSF?
Gauntlet is the only time I play SSF. Its boring and repetitive otherwise. 3.25 gauntlet was a masterpiece.

>>718934596
Everything.
In PoE 1 loot was never as scarce as in PoE 2, even very early on, when boss farming was a thing, you were getting more loot and better loot than what PoE 2 is balanced around.
And not only that, PoE 1 started off rough, it was in a bad shape, but most if not all leagues added player agency.
FFS one of the earliest big additions to the game was a crafting bench. Where you could guarantee a stat on your item even if it was a mediocre stat.
PoE 2 is a departure from that design, look at their solution in this league. You get more tiers of currency that adds more random shit. No guarantees ever. Designed to be an infinite grind.
Meanwhile the first one was an infinite grind only if you wanted perfection, since at any point you could settle and move on. And sure technically you can argue that with random currency you can also settle and move on, but there is no floor with random currency. Its devious as fuck.

>>718935067
OHONONNONONONO FROMSOFTSISTERS?!?! THESE TRUE ARPGAWDS ARE MOGGING US?!?!?
>>718925449
Just check any discussion around D2 or watch any of these Diablo and PoE streamers, they actually fucking hate fun, they want games to have infinite slop content, like to them doing 9999 baal runs is what peak content should look like.

>>718935067
reddit npc response

>>718935223
>Where you could guarantee a stat on your item even if it was a mediocre stat
This is exactly what runes do in PoE2.

>>718925449
>>718933774
Is this game on steam?

>>718935159
in a row?

They realized nobody would buy the D4 DLC just for the new content, so they threw in a rune system to prevent your existing characters from reaching max power. They re-balance the existing content to keep up with the power of runes. If you ever want to come back to this game you have to buy the latest DLC.

>>718934912
no, fuck off
i prefer poe1 vs poe2 vs LE, vs grim yawn vs whatever all day
d4 doesn't fit in this discussion, d4 niggers can fuck off to fight lost ark

>>718935153
>You'll never be in a position where you can look down from the top, fully grasp everything that's happening, and see how cool the economy was.
Oh, so its about the retarded idea of being "superior" because you amassed some pixels.
See, I'd even acknowledge feeling like that if you were able to work the real economy to your favor, or, if we were to go extreme retard spaz, if you managed to do so in a game with any economic depth behind it
but you're telling me you're mad because now people dont have to interact with this retarded system that only benefits bots, streamers or tft nolifers
See, I dont think the system will dissapear because it caters to rmtfags as it goes, but even if it did, it would be a net benefit as long as it squashes cockroaches like you.

>>718933864
>check ok builds before league start
>follow one
That's all you need to clear 99.9% of content

>>718935231
>>718935326
kek, fromfags assblasted

>get to poe2 ch3
>it's the aztec jungle

hey wait a minute this is wallmart d2

>>718935405
to a degree, i play it for 2-3 months every year when i get the itch

>>718935223
poe 1 used to be an actual grind where finding a chaos orb was a big deal and no lifers were the people who had 6 link items.
boss farming wasn't really a thing because it too too long to kill map bosses, if you mean atziri you had to farm sac frags in vaal side areas or buy them(they were expensive).
regularly killing map bosses didn't become a thing until shaper and the atlas was added.
the crafing bench required you to farm DAILY master missions to level up the masters to unlock crafts on their benches.

>>718935512
>Oh, so its about the retarded idea of being "superior" because you amassed some pixels.
Nope. It's being able to perceive a dimension of the game you aren't even aware of yet, and now never will be. Its like looking at the inside of a pocket watch. But hey, if most people will never see the inside of it then why not just make it ugly and mass produce it for everyone, right?

>>718935153
>>718935753
I never bothered with trading in PoE (neither in 1 or 2). What is it about the economy that you think it was that good and how does async ruin that?

>>718936764
i think the only time the average person would really be affected would be the few times a league when a random unique becomes the new 'meta' for a day and speculators try to buy out the market spiking the price.

>>718936764
Amassing wealth in PoE is like a puzzle, and every league the puzzle changes. Some people achieve this through market speculation, others find interesting niches in the system to fill. Firstly, you have to understand that power in PoE is not DPS or damage mitigation, its divs per hour. Even in SSF its divs per hour. This is because all drops in PoE are extremely liquid. A ton of garbage drops can be turned into a a really good item, because the orb system offers a lot of modularity. Secondly, trading is not simply buying and selling items. It's paying attention to *why* and *how* those exchanges are taking place. Like you can whisper someone and ask them why they bought a shit jewel with a specific affix from you, and there's a pretty good chance they'll tell you, and its likely part of a scheme where they've discovered a niche and are just amassing an item and crafting it. Like here's a fairly recent and simple example.
https://youtu.be/Y5uLo74eNao
This guy is just crafting magic rings. Real simple, real easy. But someone has to do this to fill this specific niche, and the less people that know about it the more profitable it will be. People don't know where items come from so they pay more for this stuff than its worth. Now imagine you discovered a certain highly specific affix configuration on an end game wand base, and you just moved tons of those and made hundreds of divs per hour. You could do something like that, or something as stupid as combining essences. The game is full of all kinds of potential wacky schemes like that. Its a community wide effort to plug holes in the economy until it turns into a finely tuned optimized machine where you can get everything easily. Its really complex and interesting, and rewards having a lot of creativity and market awareness. Its all about balancing overhead and profit, and as you progress you conveniently get access to more and more tools to do this.

There's so much going on its hard to fully explain.

>>718915113
Theres a realistic peak in Diablo. ARPGs arent supposed to have you playing it every day the entire season.

>>718902630 (OP)
I haven't played poe2
but I hate the builder skill and spender skill system d3 and d4 have adopted

>>718939123
It’s the same in POE 2. They just call it “combos” instead but same idea

>>718939123
D4 skill tree is the most outdated and boring shit ever made.

>>718902630 (OP)
The real answer is Sacred. Maybe sacred 2 only until you get to the concert and then uninstall.

>>718939687
Oh you don't like Blind Guardian?

>>718939398
whenever I go play d3 or d4 for a week or whatever just to scratch an itch I always build avoiding that builder/spender system as much as possible
>>718939621
I don't think d4's skill tree is good or bad but I do think a lot of the skills and their upgrades are boring. I have a bigger issue with dumb shit like lucky hit

man im so so so happy whenever mahirofriend posts here
he is like ray of shining in this dark dark bored
too good for these retards
i wish i could talk with him more but its okay

>>718937861
>Anime nigga
>so retarded think trading is hard
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
IT'S SO COMPLEX LMAOOOOOOOOO
SO COMPLEX YOU NEED A BOT ARMY LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>718939753
My favorite band, but the game got pretty meh after the concert. I probably should have phrased to uninstall AFTER watching the concert.

>>718937861
Thanks for the explanation. That sounds cool for people who are into that kind of stuff, but personally, it's totally out of my wheelhouse.
As a "low level" player or PoE rookie, that's part of a meta-game that's way too specific and niche for me to even begin to comprehend how I myself could engage and have fun with it, when I'm still in the phase of trying to understand the game itself. If I ever do interact with the trading system, I simply want it to just werk, and async trading seems like a good solution at a glance.

It sucks that's a trade-off that must happen. They did say they're going to see how the new trading system will fare in PoE2 before they transfer it over to PoE1, so I bet a bunch of adjustments are going to be made before they fully commit to this idea.

>>718904553
lol
lmao even

>>718936764
>no asyns trade
>you place item for sale
>receive billions whispers in two seconds
>change price to x10
>receive few millions whispers in two seconds
>change price to x100
>receive few whispers in two second
it do be like that

>>718939761
Telheres no upgrades to skills in the tree, it's just more conditional bullshit or some measly % increase.
There's no cool modifiers like D3 had with the runes, it's a few steps backwards from that skill tree.

I like D4 more right now. But im sure i'll like PoE2 more once its fully launched and feature complete.

>>718939976
>it's totally out of my wheelhouse
That's what ARPGs are though. If you aren't doing that then you aren't really playing the game. Even D2 was that. Spending hundreds of hours grinding is not ARPGs.

>2025
>/v/ now defends D4
you contrarians are not even funny

>>718940247
>live service game
>feature complete
What does this mean? Even PoE 1 continue to receive new features, ergo game isn't feature complete despite being like 13 y.o.

>>718940715
I guess all classes, weapons and acts?

>>718940715
I mean I am waiting on 1.0. With all the planned classes, ascendancies, weapons and nodes added. Then ill take the game seriously.

>>718939976
some things in poe really reward player knowledge, they aren't required in most cases but once you start to notice patterns in builds or crafts you can exploit the market pretty easily if that interest you or you need some quick currency.
the the influenced ring video that guy posted. i did something similar week 1-2 in 3.26 with crusader influenced moonstone rings for FRoSS builds.
the bases were expensive but you could buy a random ilvl86 influenced base, harvest reforge the influence to crusader, toss some essence on it until you have es, es%, eva, lock prefix, and reforge the suffix for an easy 6-8 div profit.
i honestly don't see async trading upsetting the market that much and for most people it will be a huge benefit.

>>718939687
>>718939753
>Sacred
Those games are boring and easy.
The vampiress and seraphim have nice tits, tho.

>>718935394
GoG

>>718940512
Be that as it may, I just don't care enough about that one aspect that it would completely ruin these games for me. But I'd wager most people feel the same.

I'm curious though, if manipulating in-game economies is the end be all of this genre, then where would other games mentioned previously - like Titan Quest and Grim Dawn - rank in your list?

>>718941000
>i honestly don't see async trading upsetting the market that much and for most people it will be a huge benefit.
Look at how virtual economies operate in games like WoW and OSRS. That's what async trading leads to. And a simplified trading system is already in the console versions of PoE and its unfun dogwater. This will also crunch the value of many items in the game due to bottom floor on the resistance. This, in addition to really questionable moves like "marketing tabs" really doesn't help me see this as anything but an enormous unfun disaster to appease idiots.

>>718919496
Diablo 3 is really really really much better than 4. Its obviously not D2 but D2 is still king of all ARPGs.

>>718941147
>where would other games mentioned previously - like Titan Quest and Grim Dawn - rank in your list?
0/10, I consider these to be games for hyper casuals who think stuff like asscreed and bamham is a masterpiece. In fact, I really don't see the difference between Grim Dawn and Death Spank, I think Death Spank may be more of a video game than it is.

>>718941254
poe 1 already has easy trading and its botted to hell.

>>718925449
but you had plenty of fun single-player games like victor vran and many other that fly under big radar of /v/ shilling

>>718941586
Is that the one with the Geralt voice and the Motörhead DLC?

>>718940680
isn't poe2 the contrarian choice doe?

>>718941770
no because poe2 is actually good.

>>718941386
>Death Spank
It's crazy you'd think to mention that game. I remember playing it on PS3 way back then. I'm no hardcore ARPG player as I've made it clear, but I'd certainly place Grim Dawn way above it because I know for sure I had way more trouble with it than something like DS.

BamHam may not be a masterpiece, but it's still a very good game.

>>718904692
being a dogshit game made by indians and gook with zero class customization where every "talent" tree is a straight line with zero choices

>>718926550
another shitter filtered by the best ARPG

>>718941885
>BamHam may not be a masterpiece, but it's still a very good game.
I'm not going to have a conversation with a nitwit then, thats gross and no one should take you seriously

>>718941413
Trade bots ironically keep a league alive for gamerdads who play an half an hour a day. No sane player will stop mapping to sell 1c items from their dump tab past the first weekend

>>718942025
No one that posts box arts and banners has an opinion worth listening to. They always clam up when you ask for 5 seconds of thrilling gameplay.

Look at the catalogue right now. Imagine if every thread that didn't have gameplay in the OP was removed.

>>718941747
yes, I think single-player focused ARPG died in recent years because everyone want to make PoE clone now and milk trillions while doing nothing

>>718941884
Rofl don't make me post gameplay

>>718902630 (OP)
Am I faggot
>inb4 yes
if I rely on only 2 skills, Lightning Bolt and Arc? I dunno, I have only 1 persistent buff skill gem, but all available buffs seem to be useless.

>>718942256
>only 2 skills
yeah thats 1 too many, you dont understand the game yet

>>718932665
Married, 3 kids, and that's just my steam playtime, i have another 4k+ from before it existed.
Mind you, this playtime is over 12+ years or whenever the closed beta started and also includes afk in hideout time

>>718942484
That just makes things worst doesn't it

>>718942231
Hi contrarian

I gave titan quest 2 a go and while it was fun for the short time I played it I quit because if you rebound left alt you couldn't do shit like [jump across cliff] which was eventually required to progress

>>718937861
playing ARPGs for the ECONOMY is utterly alien and antithetical to the entire point of the genre.
ACTION
ROLE PLAYING
Not 'Jew Simulator', Jesus Christ.

>>718902630 (OP)
Last Epoch

>>718942039
>>no one should take you seriously
>he says while wearing the thin veneer of le hardcore gaym3r
It's okay if the tendies are getting cold and you don't feel like taking no more, anon. But that misplaced sense of faggy elitism will get you nowhere.
Unless you're part of an exclusive society that shapes game development to your liking, then entertaining a conversation with "nitwits" is your best option, otherwise you'll just have to sit back and watch the things you enjoy taken down one by one because you failed to bring anyone to your side of the argument.

>>718943620
Where's the action? Where's the role playing? ROLE playing in a ROLE playing game is your ROLE in a party. Numbers go up is not an rpg, ever generic movie slop AAA action adventure game has that. Even the new donkey kong game has that.

>>718925873
>I guess Crate will have to expand engine a lot
They are working on new engine, which will be used for non-announced yet RTS and (in a long future) Grim Dawn 2

It was the peak of the genre and they killed it.

>>718944035
I really enjoyed it. private server can't come fast enough

>>718943925
>ROLE playing in a ROLE playing game is your ROLE in a party.
Wrong, dickhead. It's coined from THEATRICAL roles.

any good mobile arpgs? downloaded soul knight prequel and torchlight infinite

>>718944242
No it's not and gygax specifically said LARPing is for women.

>>718902630 (OP)
POE2 feels like there is so much love put into the game. Now maybe they didnt please every single autist with classes, builds, endgame etc...

But the game is still fucking amazing. And its only going to get better. Its not a bunch of boomer execs making a game, its guys that like what they do and want to share it with others.

/thread

>>718944389
Look, this genre is plainly not for you. Go play the stock market if all you want is to trade.

>>718942231
post some gameplay of diablo 4 :^)

>>718944472
>And its only going to get better.
POE1 only got worse, so I wouldn't count on it ever getting better. They've been working on a single game for a dozen years and balance is always fucked, itemization sucks, and they're only now trying to fix their stupid trade economy. GGG are terrible devs who got lucky.

>>718944472
POE 2 is slower and the melee classes are A S S

>>718944639
Gygax specifically said larping is for women.The people first to cry tranny are always the first ones to be repulsed by male oriented hobbies like market speculation and model trains. Of course the retarded soibois here are repulsed by PoE's economy, their manly spirit is non-existent. Look at all the internet tough guys here crying the game isn't handicap accessible. Well, now that there's a wheel chair ramp installed I shan't be playing it any more.

>>718945617
Who's LARPing here? From my point of view, it's you, Mister Internet Tough-Guy.

>>718902630 (OP)
Neither. Diablo 2 still king.

>>718945767
You are a woman trapped in a man's body. I'm gunna go play Mushihimesama and design railroads in factorio.

>>718944035
Fun but shallow. The raid bosses were stupid and the abrupt cancellation was sad to see. The "replacement" marvel games have been utter shit

>>718945853
You're insane and retarded, and probably a nigger too.

>>718945924
I'm a white giga chad.

>>718946008
You're a brown whore.

>>718933531
For some reason I completely forgot about it and I played D3 a lot especially during pre torment days.

Any and all "a"RPGs would be better as actual aRPGs, and by that i mean 1st person perspective action roleplaying game. Like Morrowind, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, Deus Ex, Thief, etc. Yet instead they are always geared toward being a slot machine, and worse still, a gearbox made of slot machines, that is disguised as a "game". Fuck that. Fuck this looter-RPG shit. Because that is the true name of this sub-genre - gambling simulator.

>design a game
>put gambling into it
>game is shit
Yet at any time you will have SOME folk go
>git gud
>you need to optimise
>just use bots
>lol/kek filtered
or
>b-but its early access!
>b-but they will fix it
>b-but its only the 0.1 patch
>b-but its a big *buff*
>w-were so back!
Dopamine-addicted zombies. That is how the mechanic works - gets you addicted to *wow-its-nothing* via long-term and intermittent positive reinforcement, dopamine seesaw.

>>718945835
Diablo 2 is boring

>>718946268
You meet them along the way in the first two acts and they are optional afterwards but useful as an extra unit that you can equip and set abilities.

>>718946128
You're a gay bottom who's too casual to play real video games.

>>718946438
>First person
kys

>>718945835
>>718946539
It is boring. You know when it is not boring? When you dont have to grind for pittance that is loot. When you can make funky builds that work because you are not restricted to arbitrary rules and bullshit gameplay that developers made.
The only good things in Diablo 2 are things that have nothing to do with gameplay: music, art, atmosphere, story, UI design. And that is usually what is good about other games that clone off Diablo 2.

>>718947058
No, i would rather kill you, and developers that make that slop, and then people who play and defend that slop.

>>718947169
I don't disagree with the other parts of your post thoughever. Just the first person part.

So die one thousand deaths.

>>718947074
So this is the modern "gamer" that wants million legendary drops per minute? Gear progression being somewhat slow is what makes Diablo 2 playable to this day for so many people.

>>718946985
You suck cock because you like the taste.

>>718947278
Autistic people

>>718947282
>she can't post a single real video game
fufu

Diabolos 4 won
Rod the God left us
But Diabolos 4 still wonnered

>>718947452
Rote memorisation is all you can do, niggertranny nonce.

>>718947818
>>718947452
>>718947282
>>718946985
>>718946128
>>718946008
>>718945924
>>718945853
You're both autistic retards that have shit taste in games.

>>718947282
wait what game is this?

>>718947243
Go suck-start a nuclear bomb you double Jian.
Or atleast point out the advantages other perspectives have over first person. And no, the only way to do 1st person right is to have full body awareness, and that is not fucking hard to do because its literally the positioning of camera. And may God have mercy on your soul if you insist on 3rd person because
>muh souls-likes
Fuck off. The good thing 1st dark souls did was no map, level traversal and interconnectivity, and set/defined item spawn/drops, the ability to change grip, being able to equip weapons and shield in various combinations, some move sets/animations, and ultra-minimalistic quests. And novelty. Combat was its weakest point (although ds1>ds2 because powerstancing>everything else since in that department).

>>718947889
Dyson Sphere Program.

This is a Diablo III screenshot.

>>718947278
>million legendary drops per minute
How about you dont strawman, anon, and instead
>Gear progression
go snort cocaine through those straws and OD on it, and share some with
>so many people

>>718902630 (OP)
I never played any of this genre till Diablo IV and I do not get it, it feels more like Cookie Clicker rotating through cooldowns than actually playing a game. Don't even feel like I beat Lilith just spamming shit standing still.

>>718948249
He's right though. You say you want builds to be easily accessible and that's literally why D3 changed it so you get a billion loot drop. PoE also took this design without realizing why Blizzard even did it in the first place which is why they had to implement drop filters or else 99.99% of the shit on screen is worthless.

>>718947818
>dood its just memorization, arpgs take so much skill!
>posts blurry image of casual baby game

>>718948505
zoomers will never not be funny to me

>>718948505
>khazan
>casual baby game
As I figured: you don't know shit.

Go to /vg/ and see how fast POE general goes and then see how fast the D4 general goes. You'll have your answer.

>>718948661
There's a D4 general?

>>718948606
Okay, Choon Jung Ma.

Poop Of Excrement II

>>718948661
>>718948727
They migrated to /vm/ because Blizzard conceded to D3fags and accepted their main audience only want to play 1-week to 1-month tops per season. I argue this over and over again because I played D3 since release and earned money from RMAH; D4 is heading the arcade-esque gameplay of D3 with SLIGHT improvement on itemization. Just like D3 when /vg/ first started, the generals lasted one week into a new season before fucking off until the next season and eventually it stopped altogether.

>>718948018
Thrilling gameplay. I clapped.

>>718948904
Also, it didn't help that D3 had community chat so /d3g/ had it's own community chat to talk to regulars like chad crusader Hadoken playing every single season.

>>718948963
You're welcome.

>>718947892
Third person is better because you can see all of your character, and in an RPG or aRPG seeing your character is just as important due to how they look and seeing your growth physically, as it is because it's cooler.

Not because of soulssloppa

>>718902630 (OP)
I picked poe2 already, Im just not gonna play it for maybe a year or something

>>718948904
>>718949024
That's cope. D4 was shit and the fact no one wants to talk about it proves it is shit.

>>718902630 (OP)
i dont play any FREE games because they all fucking suck and thats what Path of Exile is
Diablo is the meta.

>>718948450
You got the wrong idea. Lemme explain because i cannot take this polarity/black-or-white bullshit.

When i say build flexibility, i mean
>being able to craft gear you need or plan for
>being able to mix and use whatever gear you find or craft that fits your build/skills
>being able to buy whatever materials you need from vendor/trader/merchants
>loot that drops most of the time are materials you need for crafting or ones you can sell/exchange for whatever you need
>ability to respec your char so you dont need to run 50 different ones just to get it right OR try another build
>ability to change/transmute items so that that nice unique dagger can become a nice unique bow/axe and so become usable

Loot explosions and need for filters to filter out 99% of drops IS EXATLY WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG AND WHAT I AM AGAINST.
Instead of making loot drops be for most part orbs, PoE1 and PoE2 shower you with junk, because gear treadmil and gambling machine go down the trash chute the moment you get orbs you need/want to craft your items OR that you can sell to vendor for higher-tier orbs. They intentionally made vendoring items pointless except for vendor "recipes" because the moment they do a fair system gambling bullshit crumbles. I dont want 100 shavronne's wraps a minute when i just want 1 decent chest armor, and i want to craft it without any monkey business or that bullshit they introduced in Settlers league called recombinator.
When Sazabi's sword drops in D2, i want to be able to transmog it into a katar or spear instead of sell it to merchant. I want D2 to have Pluggy by default, instead of having to rely on a mod. When i use Lightning Fury, i want it to apply to thrown weapons too, instead of JUST JAVELINS.

But you, you retarded fuck, you think its just about "muh legendaries, more legendaries per minute!".

>>718949040
>because you can see all of your character
Vanity camera exists and does the same damn thing.
>due to how they look and seeing your growth physically
See above
>it looks cooler
That is subjective at best. The only ever argument you could make that it looks cooler is IF the game has extensive platforming.

The only way i can think 3rd person would be good, would be IF the game was akin to Conan Exiles (with better animations) or Dragon's Dogma (old one, not the new one).

>>718948661
lol
D4 made more money in one year than PoE has made in its lifetime. PoE is a smalltime game. But hey, GGG captured the /vg/ tranny audience so it's better I guess.

>>718950113
That's cope

>>718950113
PoE relies on RMT and whales. Mostly RMT and bots. D4 doesnt have the need to stoop that low.

>>718950113
I don't disagree with you but name branding goes a long way with sales and retention

>>718949810
You just want to turn the game into crafting simulator? Disgusting. Some crafting is good, but you are going way overboard. And D2 in particular already has runewords that allow for pretty easy access to specific items you might wanna for your character + more random normal crafting.
>being able to buy whatever materials you need from vendor/trader/merchants
Then what's the point? You are gonna just farm currency to buy all your gear?
>loot that drops most of the time are materials
Again, some crafting is good, but the game should still revolve around killing monsters for random gear drops.
>ability to change/transmute items so that that nice unique dagger can become a nice unique bow/axe and so become usable
When you get a powerful/rare item you are supposed to feel the incentive to start a new character or switch builds. Unexpected drops open new directions of your gameplay.
You literally don't get the genre.

>>718948505
Whatever you may think, you are not cool for playing mature and hardcore games. Vidya is just cheap and casual entertainment and you are a fag for thinking your choice of game means anything

I really like all the elements of PoE/PoE2, the campaign is fun, the loot is fun, all the different builds are fun, end game is fun. What's not fun is having to do the campaign over every 3 months. I'm fine with doing it once, maybe twice in a sort of NG+ type thing but I don't wanna keep doing the shit over and over and over.

>>718944472
Based Tencent enjoyer, they are the only good guys

>>718950345
Diablo has always had a massive RMT market

The red-headed stepchild of the series.

>>718904692
gacha for pixelated weapons and armor that you cant even see.

>>718950604
How hard is it to post 5 seconds of thrilling gameplay? What kind of nitwit plays a game for 2000+ hours if he doesn't find even 5 seconds of it enjoyable?

>>718950440
>you just want to turn the game into crafting simulator?
Not crafting simulator: the game, but for crafting to be part of it without gambling and bullshit odds tied to either. Again, anon, you demonstrate polar/black-or-white view. Please shut the fuck up.
>You are gonna just farm currency to buy all your gear
It becomes one of the ways to obtain gear, yes. You still have to play the game, and level/requirements restrictions on items still apply.

And here is the fucking crux of the issue of the whole thread
>the game should still revolve around killing monsters for random gear drops
>killing monsters for random gear drops
I will repeat this again
>killing monsters for random gear drops
>game
>should still revolve around
>killing monsters for random gear drops

FUCK YOU AND EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO THINKS THAT.

Game should revolve around killing monsters, advancing quests/challenges/whatever, exploring places/maps/whatever, and obtaining loot either from killing monsters, discovering treasures/cashes, trading with merchants, or crafting from matrials you find/obtain (from monsters too).

But you, you stupid insipid fuck, think it should be a pinata crossbred with a slot machine. FUCK YOU.

>feel the incentive
>start a new char
>reroll the build
>Unexpected drops open new directions of your gameplay
What are you, the boilerplate/talking head for every retard dev/company peddling gacha/gambling/slot machines? You sound exactly like that kind of a fuck.
>You literally don't get the genre
First of all, it is a SUB-GENRE.
Secondly, gambling is not a genre in the first place, and any game that has it, aside from it being specifically a casino game (Ceasar's Palace), is better off as a game without it. Maybe one day you will get it though your head that gambling (random gear drops, unexpected drops, "incentive to") has not place in video games. Neither do lootboxes and their kin (for the record).

>>718950847
>gives D4 hambeast Druids
>gives DI gooner Druids
Why.

>>718951746
You ignored everything about runewords and crafting already being in the game. What you describe basically isn't what these games are even about, go play regular CRPG instead. Go play Dark Souls, that's literally what you want, not Diablo.

>>718950661
There was once such a thing as an endless ledge. It was a thing for racing events way back in 2015-2016. GGG (Chris, now Jon) could've easily implemented it into the game as an alternative to doing campaign over and over. Yet they did not. Another way of doing it would be to allow players to start a lvl 60 chars and jump straight into maps, giving such chars pre-set items.gears and resources that one would've obtained in the course of campaign. They did not do that either, even though they did that stuff for races back in the day.
No consolation there anon. PoE1/PoE2 developers (gameplay designers) are retards who deserve to be tortured mercilessly.

>>718951667
Not everyone's a narcissist who records himself all the damn time, you retarded woman.

>>718950803
And that is an issue. Ask yourself. Why does RMT exist in Diablo 2 (or any other game) in the first place? Because RMT is the symptom of the core issue.

>>718950779
>tencent
>good
How much CCP is paying you? Or are you working for them for free?

>>718902630 (OP)
I'd take D4 in a heartbeat. I detest trading with every fiber of my being and I'd rather play easy retarded baby game than grind trade fodder to try to get an item I want. Technically I've also uninstalled D4 and I just play Grim Dawn and Last Epoch though

>>718942256
based ds2 enjoyer

>>718952260
Firstly, why not? You can just have any nvidia gpu passiviely record all the time. Secondly, this is a board for discussing video games, if you don't want to share gameplay why are you here? The fact of the matter is, if you looked at your gameplay you'd likely be sad and disappointed in yourself.

>>718952586
You aren't sharing anything other than how much of a cunt you are. Fuck off.

>>718952586
>You can just have any nvidia gpu passiviely record all the time
I should look that up. I've had a 4070 for ages now and I just always that recording took prohibitive amounts of space and/or beats the fuck out of a disk drive as it caches shit but if it floats it in RAM or something I might actually like recording clips

>>718952796
Nah, I think the reason you don't share gameplay is because you're boring. And your posts are boring as well. You don't want to put in even 5 seconds worth of effort and you're getting mad at people who do.

>>718952883
Projecting from a tranny, as expected. You are subhuman.

>>718902630 (OP)
POE 1 > Last Epoch > Torchlight 2 > Diablo 2 > Torchlight > Diablo 3 > Diablo 4 > POE 2
I never played Grim Dawn. The whole point is about trying to become as efficient as possible which is essentially making a one-button build. POE 2 tries to do roll slop and railroads builds so it ends up failing at both. Unless they make a campaign skip or something I'm not touching POE 2 again

>>718902630 (OP)
Both are shit
The entire genre is poisoned.

POE2 proved the
>Its only shit because you are teleporting around the map deleting entire screens of shit every microsecond
Was wrong. The top down press 1-2 buttons slot machine simulator you might as well play cookie clicker.

>>718952870
>I just always that recording took prohibitive amounts of space
Nah, the nvidia overlay records just like a console does, theres a dedicated hardware encoder. I usually use OBS out of habit (which saves to my HDD, not SSD) instead and sometimes I just accidentally leave it on for like 10 hours. As long as you're not recording in 4k I don't see how this would use a large amount of space.

>>718953043
If you ever played Titan Quest, GD is better Titan Quest- unless you played TQ for the sense of adventuring through the ancient world, in which case GD is a worse version of TQ despite the mechanical improvements.

>>718953043
Please give Victor Vran and Van Helsing a chance.

>>718952054
>runewords
Remind me again of the droprate of runes, and remind me again of runeword that actually are worth it. Go ahead, grind the fuck out of Countess and Lower Kurast to get those. While the concept of runewords is very nice, it doesnt work all that nice in reality.
>crafting already being in the game
In D2? Do you know how shit crafting is in D2? Have you ever even tried it?
>crafting in PoE
Oh
>castrated version of affixes you get on items
>important recipes are locked behind unique maps that you have no idea when/how/if ever you will get to run and even then being able to complete
>recipes removed
>recipes shuffled
>recipes requiring things that are RNG and odds are not into your favour (beastcrafting)
And dont forget the bullshit they did with divine/exalt orbs, the fact that they removed eternal orb drops, and the fact that they made Crafted just give you three affixes (two in reality, because Crafted is an affix itself) instead of five (four). And on top of that they - Chris/devs - never even tried to give clarity on what does what, because "we like for players to get joy out of discovering what does what for themselves" (means insider trading of information and "screw you and that exalt you dropped). Yeah, great crafting, just like Horadric cube. Very nice indeed.
>poe2
>removes crafting
Just slam those chaos and exalt orbs! Let the RNG decide! (totally not a slot-machine).

>go play something else argument
How about you go play a russian roulette with all 6 bullets in their chambers? You will get that loot explosion and excitement of and unexpected drop! And you will be able to respec/roll another char (in the afterlife)!

>>718906192
>Not to say POE 2 is good though, I mean it is
Why can't zoomer brains form coherent thoughts?

>>718951843
You know why.

>>718953136
d4 had a massive launch despite being shit and the poe 2 early access has the 17th highest all-time peak on steam.
there is obviously an audience for these games.

>>718953880
>its shit
>b-but there's an audience for eating shit so its okay!!!!
Where do subhumans like this come from

This genre has always been garbage and people who pretend its not are bad at it. The gameplay has always been bulldozing through monsters without thinking, the only gameplay is in strategizing farming and trading.

>>718953940
1. free-to-play poorfags
2. RMT-farmers from some 3rd world shithole
3. dopamine-burnout junkies
4. shills
5. gambling addicts
6. genuine retards
7. underage (under 21) kids who think its cool to be on the internet and to have an opinion
8. hype-fags

>>718953559
Strong/useful runewords that you can get consistently each time, because they don't require anything too rare:
>Stealth
>Leaf
>Edge
>Spirit
>Strength
>Honor
>Insight
>Lore
>Peace
>Rhyme
>Black
>White
>Hearth
>Bulwark
>Cure
>Smoke
>Splendor
>Hustle
Those stop at Ko, nothing hard to find. Spirit, Insight, White and Hustle are actually way too OP for their cost.

>>718954213
Familiarity breeds contempt. D2 was amazing when we were all new to it, but it's been nearly three decades since then.

>>718954713
Being ignorant of quality doesn't make lesser things amazing. This is why its important not to put old things on a pedestal.

my favorite passtime in D2 was guessing private games and stealing people's shit mid-mule

>>718953136
>you might as well play cookie clicker
Nah. Cookie clicker has more long-term development.

>>718954874
I phrased that badly. whatever. I 'should' have said that D2's best aspects have been overlooked for so long because a lot of people laser-focus on getting to Hell difficulty and endgame grinding ASAP instead of stopping to smell the proverbial flowers. D2 might be utterly retarded in how it handles combat and itemization- but the atmosphere it delivers remains unparalleled to this day.

>>718953940
>stop liking thing i don't like
how would you feel if you didn't eat breakfast this morning?

>>718955707
NTA, but you should consider suicide for using that line of argumentation.

>>718956347
why would i do something you like? i'm not a subhuman shit eater like you.

Are there any ARPGs that would translate well to tabletop gaming?

>>718957186
diablo 1, small scope and it was originally designed as a turn based game.

>>718957186
Some people run their DnD or whatever campaigns as nothing much more than hack'n'slash, where you create a minmaxed character and jerk off to damage numbers of broken builds.

>>718952501
Best Souls 2 babyyyyyy

>>718950076
>Vanity camera exists and does the same damn thing.
No.
>See above
No.
>That is subjective at best.
No it isn't.
>or Dragon's Dogma (old one, not the new one)
There's no difference between the old one and the new one, retardo.

>>718960238
See >>718956347

>>718955639
>the atmosphere
yeah no, this is the wrong reason to have a thread on a video game every single day for months. pick up any other hobby, thats not video games

>>718926926
>you cant criticize a game unless you are a top 1% poopsocking faggot
kys nigger. to get to the point where i'd be able to get lvl 100 HC i would have to sit through thousands of hours of spamming 1 attack. your genre is shit. your taste is shit. POE2 had potential and you dipshits ruined it.

>>718904970
you know you could just play the game, do ubers, and be done right. there is literally nothing else to do after ubers unless you care about a pretend economy/making a new build.

Why do retards that don't even like this genre feel the need to insert themselves into the conversation?

This always happens in this shitty board, whether it's about ARPGs or fighting games. Every fucking time, it's always the same the same manner of speech, same rhetoric and retarded hyperbole. Then you step outside of this website for just one moment and immediately realize the opinions that are constantly regurgitated day in and day out in this shithole are completely irrelevant and fucking idiotic.

Disliking things for the sake of it is no longer cool because it's too obvious you're just repeating the same shit (and often times demonstrably false) opinion from someone else. Why can't you morons be normal for once, or grown a brain?

>>718960983
>thats not video games
It's the one thing D2 did right but millions of people have become addicted to all the shit it did WRONG.

The literal only reason I try to play these games is so I can be a necromancer, but every single ARPG sucks ass and the necromancer gameplay is dogshit.
Just let me be a fucking master necromancer with an army of 500 zombies and skeletons with elite death knights and shiet, but not as an RTS. I want to actually be the necromancer.

>>718963463
>but not as an RTS. I want to actually be the necromancer.
What does this actually mean? You want to hit the 'summon 500 skeletons' spell and then just sit and watch your army rape stuff without your input?

>>718963463
i fucking WISH summons worked like an rts in arpgs, poe2 is the only game that is trying to actually have minion commands.

>>718963049
Filling the catalogue with garbage casual games and pretending you're some hot shit epic hardcore boomer is impolite. The level of vidya you're engaging with deserves maybe 1% of space of the catalogue at most. And it's currently occupying almost 99% of it. Stop whining when you're the problem.

>>718961470
It's because your criticisms are unfounded
you cry about the genre in its entirety
show me a video game that isn't anything but a waste of time
THE WHOLE POINT OF VIDEO GAMES IS RECREATIONAL ENTERTAINMENT, you act like its a fucking job

>>718964140
Total Warhammer Heinrich Kemmler gameplay, but not an RTS. I control my character with WASD, I cast his spells.

>>718963049
because you cookie clicker faggots need a good hard pound-you-in-the-ass reminder that you are no better then the usual gambling degenerates

arpgs are a slot machines. male equivalent of candy crush. zero thought process required and in fact makes (you) actively dumber

>>718965258
you genuinely have to be the most retarded person on earth to not be able to beat endgame poe in like a week or 2 of a league, the game hands you uber bossing gear on a silver platter

God damn it. I'm about to praise Assassins Creed Valhalla and I don't fucking like that.
ACV had the right idea in making all of its gear loot totally unique. No dupes, no random stats- every piece was special.

>>718965386
>you genuinely have to be the most retarded person on earth to not be able to beat endgame poe in like a week or 2 of a league
>thread is full of people crying how they need async trade and every class buffed and melee to be literally invincible and gear drop rates to be upped 1000%

>>718965894
yeah the vast majority of this thread is retarded

>>718902630 (OP)
I rather play this than any of your trannyfied and chinkified shit ARPG's with empty promises.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3086590/Gods_Death__Reapers/

>>718965258
>point proven

>>718926835
>What video game doesn't involve pressing buttons?
Man, it is joke. Why heff to be mad?

>>718966456
>muh empty promises
>Wolcen studio
Retarded or baiting?

>>718967150
>muh empty promises
retarded or baiting or just excrement eating PoE chink?

No, give me more Grim Dawn.

>>718967246
Who even mentioned PoE? Meds, retard.

>>718904745
https://youtu.be/aQDjQhqELHM?si=FH0XFoNGVgjAITUa

>>718967429
a full blown retard got ya

>>718967590
The only thing Wolcen shills are capable of is embarrassing themselves.

>>718967708
You seem to be upset that bad mouthed your beloved early access Tencent game, shill.

what about us torchlight bros?

>>718902630 (OP)
I wouldn't touch any of those games. You'd have to literally pay me on an hourly basis like you do with those streaming subhuman.

>>718968268
Ours is long expired.

>>718902630 (OP)
>rollslop or rollslop
console and tablet mobile games are two blocks down Chang

PoE 2 is cockblocked from being good by 2 things, crafting, and the atlas. Regarding crafting at the moment all we really have, and all we have on the horizon is essentially LE crafting, where you pick up a base from the ground, click a couple things on it, it bricks 99% of the time, and then you throw it back on the ground to wait for the next base.

To showcase what I mean, I will describe the crafting process of making a pretty decent SSF viable 2h phys weapon in PoE1 vs PoE2

Poe1
>Get a white base
>Hit with t3+ phys essences until you hit t3+ hybrid phys
>If the prefixes a fill go for a pre > suff beast or an annul if you have 2 suffixes already.
>lock the prefixes, hit with a veiled chaos
>If you hit a prefix veil you win, if you hit a suffix lock prefixes and scour, lock prefixes again and hit with another veiled chaos
>If you hit 3 suffixes at any point you have to go for an annul
>Unveil any of the %phys mods on phys
>Lock the prefixes again and either wipe suffixes into multi mod attack speed + end charge damage or whatever you want
>Or lock prefixes and reroll speed at harvest bench
>Craft the last suffix if you didn't multi mod
>Quality up and hit with a tempering orb a few times to get %phys effect

This is not the only way, or even the best way to do this (since recombinators exist) but it is one of the MANY ways to achieve a weapon in an SSF scenario that is strong enough to clear all content.

Poe2

>Get a white base
>Hit it with a transmute, hope for a good mod
>Hit it with an augment, hope for a good mod
>Hit it with a regal, hope for a good mod
>If at any point during the previous steps you dont get a good mod you throw item on ground
>Hit it with 3 exalts, hope for good mods
>If you get an item with 4/5 or 4/6 good mods you can use an omen on an item to try reroll one of the bad mods into a good mod
>If you miss the chaos you throw the item on the ground

I'm about to hit character limit but basically PoE2 needs just a lot more SYSTEMS.

>>718968702
rolling in poe2 doesn't have i-frames and spamming it gets you killed