Thread 719003432

Why is Final Fantasy VII's only good product Final Fantasy VII?

>>719003432 (OP)
What?

this was good

>>719003591
No it wasn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdCeQa3mM5E

>>719003432 (OP)
And yet they will be defended to the death by people who would have loved them no matter what. All they want is more time with the characters. It doesn't matter if it's tedious, boring, nonsensical, badly written, insulting to your intelligence, utter trash. You could make a 100 hour game set in Seventh Heaven and they'd like it, because they get more time with the characters. At some point they became obsessed with the characters, but don't actually care about the story or the game they're in.
Is AC good? No, but it gives us more time with the characters, so they like it.
Is BC good? No, but it gives us more time with the characters, so they like it.
Is CC good? No, but it gives us more time with the characters, so they like it.
Is DoC good? No, but it gives us more time with the characters, so they like it.
Is 7R good? No, but it gives us more time with the characters, so they like it.

>>719003762
soul

Dirge of Cerberus is fun

I liked Advent Children.

>>719003771
Well at least in FF7R Aerith is still alive. Helped people get over nearly 30 years worth of trauma...

>>719003432 (OP)
Because nostalgia

>>719004935
So are you saying that...what are you trying to say?

>>719004365
7R Aerith is a cringey anime cunt and a complete affront to the character. she deserved to die so badly.

>>719004935
Explain yourself so I can more thoroughly say you're wrong, whatever your point was.

>>719003771
What's wrong with liking the characters?
Also no media is perfect, some of those had their good and bad points, overall enjoyable, and yes, they give us more time with the character , so it's ok.

>>719006353
I think he's saying that the interest in giving the characters more screentime came at the expense of producing something that added meaningfully to the world of Final Fantasy VII. You got to see the characters more, sure, but it created a story fork that we'd probably have been better without.

>>719004365
Prepare to share Cloud's mental breakdown on part 3's first chapter.

>>719006469
Sequels tend to do that.
You either accept the additions and pile them up to the overall lore or you get to be a nostalgia freak, being a Negative Nancy all over the place, like in these kind of threads.

>>719003771
Crisis Core was good thoughbeit

>>719003432 (OP)
I liked the FF OVA with the Zack backstory. I forget what it was called.

>>719006909
what was good about it other than the fact people liked zacks general personality despite the lifeless stilted voice direction.

>>719003591
>Zack gets shot by three guys after days of being run down
>dies without saying a word to Cloud, leaving Cloud to piece together everything that's happened to him alone
>"Nah, that's not cool enough."
>"Now, Zack fights a gorillian guys, dies, and then gives final words to Cloud about honor and dreams and then he ascends to heaven while J-Pop plays and also-"
Ruined. Sometimes less really is more.

>>719007069
Satisfying gameplay loop, short and sweet missions, materia experimentation was very enjoyable, Minerva was an excellent superboss, final battle against the Shinra legion was a phenomenal test of skills.

>>719007069
Speaking for myself, I liked the expanded lore on Loveless. I didn't specially care for Genesis but I loved the added background on that insignificant play. The posters of the OG always stood out a lot for me.
They could've presented Angeal and Genesis in a less corny way, "dreams and honor" got old really fast, but I loved it overall.

>>719007302
It was, in fact, not cool enough. Going down swinging against an entire mechanized division was a brilliant way to close out the story of a SOLDIER. Being killed by the ordinary troops that even Cloud can solo by the dozen at the start of FFVII was both illogical within its own canon and generally pretty stupid. SOLDIER 1st classes should not die so easy.
Now those three guys are what was left after Zack fought unto the brink of death.

>>719003432 (OP)
Because no FF game under Sakaguchi's leadership was intended to have any expansion.

>>719007802
True. I dislike a lot of things they changed, but Zack dying to some rando fodder was stupid. He was really strong and a real soldier infused with Mako. How is he dying to 70 HP guys?

>>719006818
This

>>719003771
True. Even the guy who always gets mad at this post admits it.

>>719007687
>materia experimentation was very enjoyable
significantly worse than FF7s materia system by an indescribable margin.

>>719006353
>they give us more time with the character , so it's ok.
Exactly

>>719003432 (OP)
Rebirth is objectively kino. Remake is dogshit though

>>719008319
As long as it's true there's no reason not to post it

>>719006818
>>719008364
lmao

i unironically liked playing dirge even if it had the dumbest plot of the post-ff7 games

>>719003432 (OP)
It was a closed story in a very developed world that had nowhere to go. Some stories they have some unseen land that wasn't visited or some question in a character's past that was unanswered. FFVII didn't have anything that stood out as a hook to make new stories.

>>719008535
both have the same problems.
and rebirth miraculously managed to have worse graphics and worse cringey writing than part 1.

Is there ANY point with trying to reason with an autistic lorefag when he starts talking about how x or y couldn't happen "because of character levels"?

>>719008464
Lots of things are worse in comparison, but that doesn't make it actually bad.

>>719008853
You just making up things to be mad about in your head now, or what?

>>719008853
There's no point in talking to lorefags at all but especially when they start talking about powerlevels

>>719003771
there's 5 billion ivalice games but yeah keep focusing on ff7

>>719008853
Ironically given how that game works FF8 was probably the worst image to pair with that message.

>>719008948
>>719007802
>>719008321

>>719009040
See, this is what we call a strawman. The things you're pointing to aren't the things you complained about. One guy wanted a hero to die a hero's death. You interpreted this as something about him being level 100 I guess.

>>719009021
Oh dear. Well, somehow I think I'll pull through.

>>719008779
>both have the same problems.
no they don't
>and rebirth miraculously managed to have worse graphics and worse cringey writing than part 1.
no it doesn't

>>719006818
This is a strawman argument.

>>719009179
True

>>719008853
Character stats and levels are non-canon unless otherwise stated. Your characters get stronger by certain things you do in game mechanics (finding and equipping new materia, learning skills, enhancing their techniques by training against monsters, buying new equipment, etc) but the level of that strength is obfuscated and should always correlate to what makes sense in the plot. So in most RPGs if your characters were only strong enough to beat slimes, but by the end they're smacking down eldritch entities we can only measure their strength by what happens with the heroes and villains in cutscenes and setpieces, not necessarily what happens in combat (unless there's cutscenes and setpieces in combat that can be used to determine strength; your actual attacks don't matter)

>>719008979
Because it's been almost 20 years since the last one and people doný pretend to like the bad ones just because they recognized thing.

>>719009176
Always fascinating to hear from the 7R fans who spend 12 hours a day "no u"ing everyone who isn't positive enough but not even trying to counter any points. Really illuminating and mind changing.

>>719008556
But it's not really true, none of those titles are "utter trash". Some are quite nonsensical but not tedious, some are badly written but not boring. Some are really doubling down on japanese antics that work with lego characters but not with realistic ones, but they are fun. Some are just a barebone idea made full game/movie or too over the top, but it expands the lore in an interesting way, etc.
And yes, they give us more time with the characters, so the bad things get ignored in favor of the fun ones.

>>719003771
Painfully accurate
>>719009253
This

>>719009306
>yes, they give us more time with the characters, so the bad things get ignored
Very true

>>719009253
FFXVI was a covert Ivalice game.
You heard it here first.

>>719009269
I'm not trying to change your mind, I don't give a fuck if you like the game or not. the fact of the matter is Rebirth is beloved by most people who actually played it and it's a MASSIVE upgrade over Remake in every way

>>719009176
Don't make me post the faggy musical shit. Yuffies plane song, the pub song, the fucking gold saucer cringe fest.
and did you miss how embarrassing them botching Aeriths death scene was?

>>719009207
Which does end up really weird when the lore does acknowledge the characters getting absurdly strong, but doesn't really explain why.. In FFXII, your party has to run from imperial troops a lot, then the final sequence of the game is basically going Rambo on the heart of the arcadean empire, personally assassinating the emperor (after plowing through his legion of bodyguards) who is himself hopped up on magic steroids, and in the cutscene the common street rat protagonist we've been following just smacks the hulking magical demigod flat on his ass with one swing of his sword. How? Who knows. Sometimes you don't think about it, video games have to have the hero win.

>>719009421
>I don't give a fuck if you like the game or not
And how many hours do you spend in 7R threads each day replying to negative posts?
>the fact of the matter is Rebirth is beloved by most people
And yet your insecurity never quite goes away

>>719009423
I never said or even remotely implied that the games perfect. none of that brings the game below the 9/10 that it deserves.

>>719009585
>And how many hours do you spend in 7R threads each day replying to negative posts?
you think I'm the only person who likes Rebirth on /v/? I come into FF7R threads once in a blue moon at most

>>719009468
I toyed around with the idea of the loicense board being canon giving your characters access to spells and equipment they weren't previously able to buy from vendors. License points to let you buy new things being canon rewards from clearing out Hunts and notorious monsters.

Ignoring that though, you explore a lot of old ass ruins and dungeons finding rare equips and while Vaan and Penelo canonically were probably not allowed to have Espers, I don't see why Ashe would have any problem doling them out to the rest of your party.

>>719009614
>woah woah woah, nobody said the game is perfect! but I will shut down literally any criticism anyone has of it on sight

>>719009749
Really? You should come here more to post your insights and takes like "no it doesn't"

>>719009797
where did I shut down criticism of the game? I have my own criticisms of it, such as it's pozzed and has some of the most disgusting npc's I've ever seen
it's still a great game despite that

I never come here and I don't care what anyone says or thinks. But watch this.

>>719003771
Who gave this guy the codes to the truth nukes?

>>719009179
If it's a sequel, by definition it cannot have the same plot, or it would be a remake, thus it has to create a new conflict within that same setting with the same characters involved or not.
The new conflict can be related to the original plot or be completely new but it all adds to the original lore, background of the characters or history of the setting, expand it or even retcon it.
Of course, you may like it or not, but that's how sequels work.
It's a fact.

>>719009614
it means the games writing is so bad it's even worse than part 1 (I didn't think it was possible to write a plot worse than part 1)
it even doubles down on the multiverse timeghost retardation. remmber how shills were like
>don't worry timeghosts are gone now. part 2 will be so much better now that fate is changed, it won't just be "FF7 scenes but done much worse and missing core aspects" like part 1
and sure enough part 2 is just lazily and systematically butchering scenes from FF7 to the point it ends with Aerith at the forgotten capital but now with stupid time ghosts flying around.
this shit is beyond parody. people were joking when they said they'd just shove those idiotic things into the most iconic scene in gaming but the retards actually did it.
it's enough to take it to a -100 out of 10.

>>719009423
>faggy musical shit
Opinion utterly bagged and trashed to the dumpster fire.

>>719008364
>>719010087
Based!

>>719010087
>sequels can be good... or bad
Fascinating

>>719010326
Usually sequels tend not to be liked in general. But you cannot expect a sequel not to add onto the setting lore and, sometimes, those additions tend to flesh the world or characters, and, sometimes people like to know more about the setting or characters even when the medium presented is not very good.
I don't like very much DoC as a game, some over the top designs, scenes and lines are too much. but I loved all the added background lore, setting and the core motivations of the plot.

>>719009269
We did but you never listen, or just brush it off as nonsense.

>>719010087
You're a disingenuous faggot, and you know it.
The strawman part is calling anyone who doesn't like a sequel a nostalgia freak who is negative for no good reason. Terminator 2 is a great sequel that expanded the lore and subverted expectations and people loved it. The shit movies that came later were called bad because they were bad, not because the audience were nostalgia freaks.

>>719003432 (OP)
Because FF7 OG has a linear noire-thriller story, while all the "compilation" spinoff bullshit is just a strut-exercise, like the MCU, just because people likes seeing their beloved heroes. And Ever Crisis is a clear rappresentation of how this is done just for money-grabing.

>>719010194
you lost
I still support pirating all SE games until their (((ethics department))) are all publicly executed

>>719010975
DoC is not a good game but I give it a pass because it expands the lore and we get to see Vincent from ff7 saying and doing things. It's called character driven storytelling.

>>719003771
Just consider Ever Crisis. Is THIS concept used for gatcha (so money-grabbing) purposes. Is crystal clear.

>>719004363
It has none of the original feeling the story of FF7 had and tried to pass to the players.

>>719008364
>>719010849
This

>>719009114
The guy who wanted him to die a “hero’s death” is a retarded secondary, and Zack dying to 3 randos was more impactful on stating the transience of human life in the same way the other deaths in the game were. Aerith died suddenly and shockingly, and Avalanche died like dogs too. Zack going out like some le epic anime hero is childish and antithetical to FF7’s characters all being listless or delusional hapless losers.

>>719003432 (OP)
Before Crisis is also good.

>>719003432 (OP)
You know you don't have to like or even play every piece of media?
Example, you like X, but don't like the vibes on X-2. You don't have to play it, and it does not have to ruin X for you.
Similarly, you might want XV but just read a recap for Kingsglaive or the anime. You don't have to consume everything, only what you like.

>>719011082
>There is actually a second COOLER Sephiroth hidden deep underground
>There is actually a second COOLER SOLDIER force hidden deep underground and you will never guess what they are called
This is bad, actually

Why do you always see retards saying Zack shouldn't have died to regular soldiers with guns because of his stats but nobody says Aerith should have lived because she could survive being stabbed in battles?
I guess the remake should have had her being killed by an army too just to make it more """realistic""" considering her power

>>719008535
I liked Remake more than Rebirth.

>>719011387
>damn, this [thing] isn't very good
>um, you know you don't have to interact with [thing] at all, right? think about that next time you want to criticize [thing]

What is even the point of resorting to this cope

I have never played a Final Fantasy game and thought to myself "Damn, this needs even MORE padding, and more plot slowdown points"

>>719003432 (OP)
>create something
>don't understand what your fans like about it

Many such cases

>>719011387
Knowing that the good ending of X-2 ends with Tidus randomly being resurrected is enough to mar my perception of 10 slightly

>>719007802
>>719008321
The implication was that Shinra was hunting him and Cloud non-stop. Even if Zack is superhuman, he's still a man at the end of the day and will get tired. Besides, even in the cutscene where he dies, there's some fighting noises offscreen before the three guys shoot him.

>>719007302
The original version is more realistic, in terms. The spin-off retconn is just disneyan bullshit.

>>719010953
>The strawman part is calling anyone who doesn't like a sequel a nostalgia freak who is negative for no good reason.
If I don't like something to the point of hating it I tend to stop engaging with anything or anyone related to it.
If I like the sequels of whatever franchise I don't need a debbie downer telling me I shouldn't like them just because it's his opinion.

I'm starting to think the limitations of FFVII made it seem significantly more then what it is. or it's just the lack of sakaguchi that plagued post ffx
The more I see the "actual creator's vision" (as if, you know they're just building on or modifying what they initially had vs THIS WAS ALWAYS their plan), the more I realize holy shit they actually caught lightning in a bottle.

>>719011082
DoC expanded the lore in a ridiculous way.

>Deepground being a bunch of retarded, violent assholes
>also we made another Sephiroth, diluting what made Sephiroth special in the first place
>also, Hojo uploaded himself to the internet and then immediately died after revealing himself
>also, Vincent is an even bigger cuck than we originally thought

>>719007069
I must say: originally, when Crisis Core got pushed into the market, I simply didn't care, for he was just a hidden/secondary character on the OG.

>>719010975
EC is free to play.

>>719011816
It's okay. He kicks a Blitzball and dies and then comes back as an even ghostier ghost than before. Also there's a love triangle now.

>>719008364
>>719011886
BASED!

So this is the power of jimbo discussion when hes left alone and “just wants to discuss final fantasy “, specially one that he supposedly like
Interrogate, falseflag and strawman, shutting down any praise or not even praise, just nothing negative

This is his dream thread

>>719007708
I don't understood why they added Loveless since the OG. In that game is cited 2 or 3 times, but has nothing to do with all the rest, for it is not explained at all what was it about.

>>719003432 (OP)
Because it was already perfect as it was. In this day and age of brand recognition there is always the need to make a prequel and sequel and explain every minute detail.

But what it ultimately does, is to take away from the impact and mystique the original work has and it often cheapens it

https://youtu.be/22Dqy2jVqY0?si=IBnTWXzc72w52I4d

>>719008464
Truke

>>719012068
They needed a "world myth" I guess, and Loveless posters were a prominent reference used when depicting Midgar and a theme of speculation in the old forums. It was up for grabs.

>>719008364
this is unironically the argument being made by a fanboy ITT

>>719012723
That hasnt happened, but you chose to believe so.

>>719010087
It's a spinoff. FF7 story ended with FF7. The rest is a money-grabbing character-flauntering exercise done by SE.

>>719011816
I never understood this.
If I don't like a sequel I ignore it, it doesn't change my perception on the original.
Like the seasons of a series, I enjoy the ones I like and forget about the ones I hate.

>>719012897
Exactly. People just shouldn't mention it if it's bad. Never say anything about it at all. Especially if there are people who do like it and might have their enjoyment ruined by the negativity.

>>719011616
How many things in this world that you don't like?
When are you going to complain about that all?

>>719010194
FF7 Remake is written better than FF7 Rebirth, for the mystery-searching vibes, are there, in some sort of. And the fact that they have twisted the plot, just introducing a memorable character able to know the future, fuel the possibility of having her fate changed, and even if it seems convoluted, it still has some straight forward story on it. Rebirth is just "we change everything just to change nothing, for if we do, the CloTi fanbase will shit on our heads".

>>719013040
Good point. Fanboys act like anyone with a criticism spend their whole lives miserable and attacking everything. When the reality is they're only going to say "oh yeah that sucks" if it comes up in conversation. I guess they need whatever strawman they can use to protect themselves.

>>719013017
THANK you

>>719012894
AC is a sequel, CC and BC are prequels. DoC is the spinoff.
7R is a remake.
And all companies like money, anon.
That's why they are companies for profit and not NGO's

>>719013194
In my mind SE can do no wrong because I am a grown up who understands companies exist to generate profit

>>719013130
I don't even follow half of the Compilation.
Go accuse fanboy somewhere else.

>>719011981
Yes, you install it and in that very moment it's free. Otherwise you have to pay money to enjoy what you have already downloaded, otherwise it still be there, but you can't use it (and it must be there, for anti-cheat checks, when you play with other players).

>company was about to go under
>make one last game as a final hoorah
>name it final fantasy
>sells so well the company is saved

>>719013394
>I don't even follow half of the Compilation.
You should, it expands the characters and the world and story

>>719013017
I say it once, when it's out.
I may be upset for a month, but not years after, still complaining to anyone saying anything positive.
In your position, I would have posted
>shit taste
and ignored the thread after.

>>719013194
7R isn't a remake, it's a timeline fracture pretending to be a remake.

I just hate the FF7R gaslighting though.
>UHM ACKTUALLY ALL THE CHARACTERS ARE THE EXACT SAME AND THE PLOT IS PRETTY 1:1 ON THE SAME SCENES
I mean it's pretty in line for FF7 but I find it hilarious how many people gaslight in FF7 community.

>>719011230
Sounds like some sophistic bullshit to me, chief. Zack was a SOLDIER 1st class, he should not be subject to "the transience of human life", he is literally superhuman.

>>719013403
But I played for QUITE a bit and never spent a dime. The gameplay just wasn't for me, too grindy and repetitive.

>>719013443
>You should, it expands the characters and the world and story

Pretty sure that's what this thread is taking umbrage with.

>>719013535
I have a strange feeling you have posted many many MANY times about something you dislike anon

>>719013636
Yes it is mostly the same, and the story is still progressing with the similar bits. Some important story point is changed though, but it's okay nonetheless. I don't treat the game like a Bible.

>>719013695
autistic secondaries not welcome

>>719007708
>I liked the expanded lore on Loveless.
you must have loved how Genisis made it sound like some deep shakesperian masterpiece.
and then rebirth turned it into a trashy, badly written anime just like everything else in that game.

>>719013609
In the end, when the third part drops, it's gonna be just a expanded remake of OG, no timey wimey on MCU shit.
Screencap this.

>>719013865
My primary goal when destroying all 7R criticism on sight was to protect the games industry from moving away from AAA blockbuster FFVII games towards an MMO, GAAS, gacha, paypig future that square will create in its place. But if their mobile games are failing too... what's my mission?

>>719013865
no it's not wtf. stop gaslighting me

>>719013947
It will be kino if that turns out to be true. But it will be kino also if it doesn't. At the end of the day, we'll get to see the characters and spend more time with them, and that will be kino.

>>719013951
If your major fear is companies moving to mmos gaas and gacha paypigging because anons on /v/ kept criticising AAA games, do you spend a lot of time protecting assassin's creed and god of war and stuff too or do you only protect 7R

>>719013881
Ad hominems are arguments for the weak minded.
Face it, Zack deserved a more impressive showing. And he got one. And it was well received. Because that is appropriately cinematic.
In other words you're just wrong on every level and being pretentious as fuck to pretend you aren't.

>>719014142
Only 7R

>>719013695
so what?
he was tired and weak, he'd just taken down a bunch of soldiers and then 3 of them shoot him in the back when he's checking on cloud.
sure that's not enough to kill a soldier but it does knock him down and then they pump him full of like 100 bullets.
You think he should survive that?

>>719013636
>UHM ACKTUALLY ALL THE CHARACTERS ARE THE EXACT SAME AND THE PLOT IS PRETTY 1:1 ON THE SAME SCENES
I would actually entertain your idea that the characters are slightly different or plain up different, but you dont take it as that, you want to pretend they either flanderize them or they are plain worse, and thats simply just not the truth.

>>719013636
I remember when people were all "Um, actually, Shinra blew up their own reactor in the original game, too." and trying to justify that with how Jessie was talking about how the bomb wasn't supposed to be that strong. Completely ignoring the scene that occurred later where Jessie fucks up yet again with Cloud's ID card.

>>719014176
Yes because in an anime the badass mc should say "it'll take more than that" and then he fights a billion guys and uses his special move and cloud is like no wait, if you use... that... your life force...! And he says heh I only wish I could go to the ice cream parade with that someone one last time... and cloud says "someone... you mean...?" and the music plays and it rains because its a sad scene and he blows up 100 helicopters

OG version of events just doesn't make sense

>>719014176
>he'd just taken down a bunch of soldiers
See, that was what was added. That is what the improvement to the situation was. Try and read a conversation before joining it.

>OG FF7
>you find a giant swamp snake impaled on a tree and is left to wonder how strong Sephiroth had to be to do that and how brutal was the fight

>Rebirth
>Sephiroths ghost teleports in front of you, goes ";^)" and uses his jedi powers to lift the snake out of the water and throw it in a tree

>>719014161
>Face it, Zack deserved a more impressive showing
That's why it's poignant you fucking retard. He deserved better and didn't get it because at the end of the day he was used by the bad guys.

>>719014409
>OG ff7
>they show you proof number #2134238523678 that sephiroth is strong, as if we needed another thing

>Rebirth
>Sephiroth slashes the midgar zolom away which infers Sephiroth needs Cloud alive, and once Cloud learns finishing touch you can even extrapolate that maybe Cloud was the one that killed the snake under sephiroth control, which adds another layer

>>719014209
they're definitely way stupider and 100x more cringe.
the writing is low brow and trashy as fuck. the 3 girls literally start doing a fanservice cringe dance for peripatetic Japanese incels for no reason and it's completely jarring and out of place.

the OG characters would never do that. because they're not schlocky "teehee anime girl" fanservice dolls.

>>719013907
No, I like legends based on reality and that's what loveless is in FF7.
The rebirth version was awesome and also has lore implications from that part of the story, it expands it further.

Who in their right mind didn't like the loveless play in rebirth? It was an awesome adaptation of the OG play.

>>719014492
adds another layer of shit, that is

>>719014519
Whatever man, suit yourself

>>719014463
Not how it was shown in FFVII, anon. In FFVII he was just a vehicle to get Cloud to Midgar. Basically, Crisis Core had to do the job of making a plot device into a complete character. In the process, they had to embellish the plot device events, because a complete character going out like a plot device is really grungy from a writing standpoint.

>>719014541
Jimbo falseflag

>>719014463
this. somehow this is too complex for CC autists

>>719014409
>>719014492
In rebirth a posessed Cloud is the one that slays the snake.
Just pointing that out.

>>719014463
Blows my mind that someone could be over the age of 18 and still not understand this

>>719014403
wow it's astounding the amount of fucking idiots who HAVE NOT EVEN PLAYED THE OG.
watch the OG again. he draws his sword and runs off screen to kill a bunch of soldiers before he comes back and gets shot to bits.

You know nothing about the OG.

>>719014641
>SOLDIER 1st class dying alone to random mooks is uh "poignant" or something..
Never write a story in your life.

>>719014369
>I only wish I could go to the ice cream parade with that someone one last time
LOL accurate.

>>719014641
You will never meet a Crisis Core fan who doesn't have autism or some other neurological defect or emotional issues. It's fascinating.

>>719014683
I don't remember the precise details of a single cutscene very late in the to game that I last played 15 years ago, oh me oh my. However, pretty sure there were never more than the 3 dudes shown, and it's up to you to envision that there was a greater battle.

>>719014492
this is some real "the curtains were blue" shit.

>>719014519
>because they're not schlocky "teehee anime girl" fanservice dolls
They were, they were just blocky teehee anime girls with cubes for hands and limited animations.
Aerith and Yuffie specially

>>719014704
>>719014369

>>719014807
Pointing at your strawman isn't a very clever or compelling argument anon.

If crisis core Zack scene scenario was in the OG, you wouldnt question it, you would have loved it in fact.
Let that sink in.

>>719014779
Love this classic argument
>They actually wanted the story to be much, much worse but the hardware limitations meant they couldn't. There was always supposed to be infinite helicopters and guys with bazookas in that scene.

>>719014161
>Face it, Zack deserved a more impressive showing.
Wrong.
Zack is not necessary to the story at all beyond Cloud.

>>719003591
This one and Dirge of Cerberus is PROPER cringekino.
FFVIIR is just an adverisement for racemixing.

>>719014879
Anon, stop hallucinating arguments in your head. I'm the one stating that there was nothing more shown.

>>719014879
lmao they truly believe it as well, mind boggling

>>719014884
>plot devices are umm good characters actually

>>719014915
I was agreeing with you, stop being so jumpy

>>719008364
>that image
CONSUME. OBEY.

>>719014950
Exactly. He's not a character. He doesn't need to be.
It's pointless fluff.

>>719015006
He needed to be if he was going to be the main character of a prequel, anon.
Suping up his death scene was entirely narratively appropriate in light of that.

>>719013636
of course as soon as I posted this the GASLIGHTERS come into full force. it's like they don't have any awareness jesus fucking sephiroth.

>>719014823
Strawman? Your argument is that it doesn't make sense for zack to be taken out by mooks and he needs/deserves a bombastic sendoff

Nu VII is full of way too many cringy Japanese tropes.

>>719015049
Less "doesn't make sense" and more "is immensely unimpressive and mundane". Not every adjustment has to be from a point of strict necessity, anon. Flair is its own quality.

>>719014806
Aeirth never does any cringe pre-corepgraphed incel dance for pathetic anime spergs. because that shit has no place in FF7.
and Yuffie is immature but not at all a teehee anime girl she had way more fire.
She doesn't just talk about stealing shit, she does it and Yuffie is absolutely savage in making fun of Vincent. all the charcater give each other way more shit and their conversation are far less sanitized like the "teehee" fag dialogue in 7R.

>>719015038
>the main character of a prequel
Which wasn't necessary.

>>719015006
But he is now and he's a great addition to the cast.

>>719015123
Highly disagree. Pointless character that adds nothing.

>>719015090
>is immensely unimpressive and mundane
It's genuinely more shocking and interesting to have the sad, understated death than the most retarded shonen shit possible. Anyone can hammer out a parody of that garbage effortlessly. Flair my ass, it's generic as hell.

>>719003771
Evidently true

>>719015116
Video games are rarely made out of necessity.

>>719015226
It was not at all shocking nor interesting. I don't know why you believe it to be.

>>719013907
RABURESU
CHAPTA WAN: RABU

>>719014776
I have begun to notice that

>>719015259
Yeah man, I meant video games as a whole and not the specific story we're talking about.

Go eat a sandwich and take a nap, you're tired.

>>719015093
They are legos, anon. Their movements are limited if you compare them to remake models, but even then, they are still expresive and both lego aerith and lego yuffie are the ones that get the most expresive japanime movements. You just didn't notice back then.

>>719014867
The thread is full of people saying they dislike the OG scene, so this doesn't hold up at all. Clearly people ITT have no issue with saying they don't like things about the OG.

>>719015116
It was, people were craving for a playable 3d game within the ff7.
It was a no brainer movement outside of a sequel or remake.

>>719015352
Anon, the point that it was unnecessary to make is the most useless point imaginable. We're not at a Square Enix board meeting discussing what projects we're going to greenlight. It has been made, and it had reasons to be made the way it was. That is all.

>>719008979
They stopped making them after FFTA2, and every single one of them besides revenant wings can be treated as a standalone title or is even up front about being a reinterpretation of the setting. Meanwhile FFVII games are hardly even about the world it takes place in, they are just about FFVII

>>719015363
I didn't notice the cringe out of place musical numbers because they weren't fucking there.

>>719015483
Yes, autistic friend, I am aware of what has happened in reality. Thank you.

>>719015197
He doesn't need to add anything else other than his point of view on the story.
Like any other character.

>>719003432 (OP)
It's the only one that wasn't a cash grab but a legit passion project.

>>719015548
He has no point of view to the story. He was dead.

And then they created these absolute batshit scenarios to make him even more grand and powerful than was ever necessary. Which comes around to just make the ff7 story make less sense.

It's shit.

>>719014541
>It was an awesome adaptation
where the fuck was the thought provoking shakespear writing genesis was quoting? so Loveless is just some pure brainrot garbage no one would ever watch?
pick one. oh you'll just eat up any dosghit square shovels out? ok I see.

>>719015547
The sun is also very bright and the sky is often blue. Why are you wasting bandwidth making useless posts, if you're so concerned about necessity?

>>719011380
It's so good that even people creating the story of FF7 Remake forgot part of the lore, so much scattered and clown-painted it is.

>>719015510
They spun T-posing out of the stage, anon.
On their tip toes.

>>719015093
Your complain is about something so trivial.

>>719014409
Sephiroth killing the snake isn't even impressive after him throwing buildings and shit.

>>719015836
he threw buildings in the original too just offscreen. if you pay attention to the dialogue you see it was there all along.

>>719015790
cringe fan service that apeals only to the lowest autistic scum of the fanbase shows you how far a franchise has fallen and how little integrity and respect for the source material the devs have.

>>719015701
The Genesis part is the interpretative dancing and opera, while the second part is the last chapter, the one that is popular because it has a love story.
Damn, you know nothing

>>719015927
I remember that he says
>cloud I'm going to throw a building at you 20 or so years from now in a really shitty movie.

>>719015494
>revenant wings
the funniest part is if that shit was the same game except that it's now part of the FF7 line with its cast and setting, you'd see a lot of compilation cultists praising that shit

>>719016059
RW was interesting for what it was, if it came out today I think there would be people praising it regardless for being a weird RTS

>>719015836
Tseng killed the snake in og

>>719015995
So a shakespear play that suddenly erodes in intelligence and depth and becomes a brainless anime.
Call me crazy but I don't think people would act like this piece of shit had artists integrity if the play fell off that hard.
I feel even more embarrassed at genesis for quoting it.

>>719015949
What is wrong with a little fanservice?
There are other things worth criticizing but you chose to babble instead.

I had no idea Crisis Core was making so many secondaries seething red. I remember the new version was received very well, as the original had some issues. SOLDIER 1st Class obviously deserved a death fighting a lot of grunts, that was the whole point of 1st Class - guys so strong they were superhuman, the rest, like Cloud (before getting his augs) were relegated to be simple grunts. Makes sense Shinra would need an army of grunts to defeat materia wielding supersoldier.

>>719016262
he got to the cave via chocobo or more likely vehicle.
Sephiroth killed the snake because he walked the swamp without a ride and thus was attacked.

>>719009423
>>719015510
>>719015701
I'm seeing a pattern here.
What offended you so much about the play exactly?

>>719016396
when it completely destroys the integrity of the charters and turns them into insufferable anime drones and dancing monkeys devoid of humanity... everything.

square penix bent the knee to blackrock

>>719016549
Yes dude, the three young girls that are there to have fun in the gold saucer shouldbt act like happy girls trying to have fun
god, shut up man, aerith yuffie or tifa arent deppressed hoes, and the story isnt some misery porn like Exp33

>>719013194
CC and BC are not prequels, but spinoff prequels, for such characters are not present on the original FF7.

>>719013609
Another way to the word "Spinoff".

So there's some dude who's REALLY mad about Remake and Rebirth existing the past few days? There's been a lot of spam being angry about them out of nowhere every day recently when there hasn't been much talk about it and it's weird

>>719013742
And why is grindy and repetitive? To force you buy their "cheats".

Because FFVII was an absolute mess of a production that was restarted twice and was perpetually scraping up against deadlines and budget limits. The creative team and the Square brass were in constant conflict over cuts, and the devs put in hours and hours of unpaid overtime to get the product out the door. That we got it at all is a testament to the passion and talent of everyone involved. You can't just set out to recreate that result, especially not with the corporate attitude Square now has for it.

>>719016747
Why do you fags always resort to this shit when you have no argument? You don't need to pretend only one person doesn't like the game

>>719016790
But you don't have to, that's the point.
I just quit and now I watch lore stuff on youtube.

>>719016632
so in order to prove they're not "deppressed hoes".
when girls walk into a place everyone should immediately start doing fully choreographed fag dance sequences, that lack any sense of no subtly, completely unrehearsed to terrible music.
including a cringe sailor moon transformation sequence.

yeah I think that happened the other night when I went out. the staff must get pretty tired of doing that with every rendom bunch of girls who walk in. totally natural and not at all schlocky garbage for the most pathetic losers im society who own body pillows.

>>719014593
Caking up all the things how they have done, stripping Cloud epical moments to give them to Zack, only to create a story for that character, that didn't have a valuable one, is just stupid.

>>719017281
It's always a copepost when you see "angry this exists"
The posters he's talking about are saying what they don't like about the game are explaining themselves, so he pretends they're all one person and they aren't saying anything at all, it's just one guy screaming. It's a pathetic strawman that hopes to dismiss everyone's points in one go with no counterpoint.

>>719014656
I have seen Sephiroth throwing that snake on the tree, not Cloud.

>>719016747
The dude has been mad and the source of most threads on this board since remake.
I say autism.

>>719003432 (OP)
>FF7
>good
>>719003591
absolutely based. Zack is the only good thing that happened to this godforsaken compilation

>>719003432 (OP)
Final Fantasy was supposed to stay as self contained games free of any of that direct sequel/prequel shit that plagues everything else. The moment they went back on this was a mistake. None of these games have been better off for it. I don't want to consider any of this shit canon. Whether its 7, 10 or any future FF game.

>>719017387
Get out of my thread if this is the only bullshit you're able to concoct. Come back when you have a point to make.

>>719017435
Sad strawman cope >>719017387

>>719016610
More like Blackcock

>>719017483
If I left, nobody would EVER say anything bad about remake ever again, right? Since it's all me, and I'm just angry it exists? lol
>>719017387
Exactly.

>>719015038
No one asked for that and in the OG there's none of what you see on CC, for it's a spinoff prequel. How they call FF7R? Remake... so a spinoff, for you cannot remake a thing that it has already be done, without creating a "spinoff".

>>719003432 (OP)
probably because Sakaguchi was only directly involved with the original game.

>>719017483
>my thread
You made a thread about compilation and 7R being shit? Based!

>>719017336
>when girls walk into a place everyone should immediately start doing fully choreographed fag dance sequences, that lack any sense of no subtly, completely unrehearsed to terrible music.
Yes because thats what ff6 did with celes being able to sing
thats what FF8 does when squall dances
Thats what ffX-2 does
Its meant to be just a fun moment in a place where fun happens
What the fuck went wrong with you, man

>>719017336
It's actually quite common in theme parks, mostly disney.
Sailor moon was just to give yuff another outfit.
You hate fun, don't you?

>>719017635
kek

>>719017625
Sakaguchi wasn't really "directly involved" with FFVII. He wrote a draft story which was basically unrelated with the end result and he gave thumbs up to things, it was almost entirely Kitase's story.

>>719015197
It is only considered "great" for he is predestined ending with Aerith, in order to let the CloTis wet themselves. The fans have ruined the story, with their nonsense bullshit.
Just consider that people that auto-proclaim themselves as strong connoisseurs of the FF7 lore, managed to say that in the beginning of FF7 OG, Aerith had already another Aerith saying what was going on. These people hates so much the original story, even if they claim they're aware of any quick of it, that are happy about the retconn praticed on the Remake project, that completely rape the original spirit of the story itself.

>>719003432 (OP)
Too big, too popular, too misinterpreted, too many years ago.
There's plenty of media which are somehow misunderstood by the people who created it.

>>719017415
You saw Cloud fade to black and suddenly Sephiroth appeared and the serpent wasn't holding Cloud anymore.
Huh

Thinking about it, what's the RE7 of Final Fantasy games? VII too?

>>719017636
>ff6 did with celes being able to sing
1. fuck off you stupid lying nigger. I've played that game she doesn't randomly start signing.
she has to take part in a play as bait to wait for the antagonist. doesn't even want to do it. it doesn't come out of nowhere it has build up with huge context and plot justification for happening. it's executed 1000% better.
2. it's all irrelevant because none of the shit you mentioned is FF7. in fact FFX2 is fucking cringe trash.

>>719018194
>it doesn't come out of nowhere it has build up with huge context and plot justification for happening
You get to gold saucer and a number is happening. I would say thats completely justified.

>>719017568
If you stopped making threads shitting about rebirth I doubt anyone would be talking about the game at all to be honest. And I say that as someone who likes the games, there would be just the ocasional lore thread.

>>719018387
I didn't make the thread, talk to >>719017483

>>719017935
>in the beginning of FF7 OG, Aerith had already another Aerith saying what was going on.
Nobody says that

>>719007802
>>719011823
I like the original too.
Being persistence hunted to death by faceless goons from an evil megacorporation is more interesting than an overblown heroic sacrifice.

>>719018760
This guy are sick

>>719015654
It's a pure nonsense. We are talking about Zack that went with Cloud as a grunt and Sephiroth, to the Nibelheim reactor and, in the OG, he was weak as shit. The Zack that had followed from that moment, cannot be "strong" and "powerful", if he was shit in that moment and then it got put in a jar and washed with mako.

>>719018841
The fuck are you talking about

>>719015654
So the fact that he died in that way, on the OG, is needed because it creates the noir drama that SE never fully understood. He died in such a vile way for he was not strong, even if he was a SOLDIER. He died without saying anything to Cloud, for that kind of death was functional for the fact that Cloud heard Zack talking about the future life they would have had (like Aerith was doing, and Tifa pointed it out), being happy and hyped about that, talking about he would move with Aerith on her house, but there was her mother, so it was a bad idea and maybe finding out somewhere to live with her and maybe with Cloud, while both doing the merc job (if Cloud managed to recover from the comatose state). All abruptly ended in such an harsh and brutal way. The leit motiv of the game is being a noir story.

>>719018874
>>719018048
>he was weak as shit.
Not really, he gets bested by sephiroth, but other than that has a greater mental and physical fortitude than Cloud.
He wasn't affected by Jenova cells or the lifestream mental overload.

>>719018272
if you walk by as some corney performance is on do you jump in there, not get tackled by security, get given a costume and know all the moves?
trash absolute trash.

>>719019638
They get invited to join. They didnt butt in.

>>719003771
true except that nobody likes DoC

>>719017315
The original concept of the game is that one. (You) have decided to give up and watch things on YT, but original mechanism of the game is to flaunter characters here and there, just to grab money, all things that had anything to do with the original story of FF7. It's like there's people that likes Hitler and decides to decipt him in various situation, that never happened on reality. That's just fiction and you can't consider them part of the world history, for they're totally invented. They're just based on a character that is considered beloved or valuable of attention from a group of people.

>>719019703
because the incel devs wanted them to dance like monkeys.

>>719017625
That's fore sure. It's the missing piece of the puzzle that made FF7 story so great, and expecially the fact that he lost her beloved mother probably all in a sudden and he put his broken heart feelings googles in order to construct the story that ended to be the FF7 story.

>>719019716
>true
yeah

>>719018172
>significantly different game designed to chase trends after a successful game damaged the brand
Literally every single FF game after XIII? unless XVI actually does get followed up soon then it would be the only real equivalent

>>719019827
Aren't you a little ball of rage.
Just that little scene makes you fume so much? No wonder you hate the game, I'm impressed you even got that far without dropping the game.

>>719017781
There's the clear elements in FF7 of someone that created a story where characters (Aerith and Zack) talked about their future life and suddenly and abruptly they finish up dead.

>>719018760
Discussing with the italian fangroup of FF7, this thing came out from a guy who said being a veteran of the FF7 lore.

>>719019716
>>719019991
Hey
I like half of the story

>>719019448
No one doubt about that, but because he was already a SOLDIER, so just infused with mako. But the fact is that when Zack confronted Sephiroth, after the Nibelheim fire, he got kicked out by Sephiroth. Only Cloud managed to complete the task, so even in that case, he showed not being strong at all, but weak.

>>719003591
Zack is one of my favorite protagonists in the series. Absolutely carries that game on his own because Genesis and Angeal sure don't and the other characters are barely relevant. Game's kinda just okay, though

>>719019736
Are you on drugs, what the fuck
That whole post made no sense.

the remake for me was the perfect definition of "slop". i will judge you if you like this crap. dead faces, mmo type quests, tunnels, carried by old music. its just bad and didnt cause any type of nostalgia in me (music is cheating like i said)

>>719020007
except RE7 is a neat direction and also really cool.

>>719020236
If someone says they are a veteran always assume some kind of misconception of the lore because bad translations.
Even more if they renounce the compilation because it contradicts some of those errors. I've seen such cases.

>>719020350
To be fair, Cloud caught Sephiroth completely unguarded from the back.

>>719020473
>mmo type quests
i dont remember having to kill 100 enemies to get 100 enemies asses

>>719003432 (OP)
>Flawless deep combat
>Great characters
>Great story
>Great art direction
>Great OST
>Waifus
>Good graphics
>Lots of content
>Memorable moments that stay with you long after the game ends
This is a 10/10 game
>>719003591
Based but Reunion is better

>>719019716
god i wish this were still the case

>>719003591
i got filtered in the winter stealth section so no its trash

>>719022187
Git gud

>>719022446
it made me drop the game so it must be trash

>>719022528
nutshell /v/ experience.
You must hate a lot of games

>>719022661
my completed to did not finish ratio is 3.64

>>719016610
All the background NPCs were outsourced to the turd world. They all look like total shit when you compare them to the named NPCs you interact with. So jarring.

>>719003432 (OP)
The whole idea of the remake in general is pretty, pretty good (and in many ways excedees the original in terms of logic), but i think in some things revamped in terms of presentation. I'll will post them now.

>Chapter 1
Overall the same, except rewrite the scene of the bombing. In the vanilla version, the bomb doesnt do shit and Shinra willingly destroys its own reactor. In my version of that scene, Avalanche successfully manages to disable the reactor, but it doesnt trigger a big explosion. We see a scene of president shinra and Heidegger discussing this. President Shinra asks about the protection against bombs, heidegger says it didnt work and the president is pissed. He instructs Heidegger to destroy the reactor completely then and walks away, implying: It's a pain in the ass to fix the reactor or even unfixable and the president doesnt want avalanche to win without any casualities, so they willingly escalate things so the public reception of avalanche is destroyed. Just a fix in presentation to get the idea better.

>Chapter 2:
Overall the same but: the first sephiroth meeting. In my version of the cutscene, Cloud takes les time to walk to sephiroth, and they no longer have a conversation. Instead, Sephiroth just walks and walks away, and we get one scene of Sephiroth looking back at Cloud, with a serious/expressionless look (basically pic related, which the scene of Anakin Skywalker looking at the camera in revenge of the sith). Scene ends, sephiroth banishes and Cloud is like "wtf was that". All of this, triggered by the fire, are memories from nibelheim that we see when the sequence starts.
Second, i would remove Sephiroth appearance when you meet Aerith, completely.
Im not quite sure what to do with the whispers, specially since i dont know whats part 3 gonna do, but i dont want to "just remove them bro".

>>719024602
>Chapter 3
Change Sephiroth expression from happy to serious when he attacks cloud through Marko (i keep these scenes where Sephiroth doesnt talk because its perfectly fine for Cloud to have these personal visions. It is PTSD after all, one-sided). Remove the sidequest of cat finding.

>Chapter 4
The same. I dont think it needs changing. Probably just tone roche down a little, but keep it light hearted and crazy.

>Chapter 5 and 6
Mix them into one (for those who dont know, chapter 5 and 6 are the train / underplate section, and it goes too long). However, dont make it like the original where they get off the train and immediately find the entrance to reactor 5. There has to be some plotting around the party having a plan to find the entrance, following stamps graffitis.

>Chapter 7
The same

>Chapter 8
Remove the whispers at the beginning "saving Cloud" from the fall. He just falls and has the vision of his true self with sephiroth intervening. Reduce the time you spend walking to Sector 5 with aerith, probably just remove some small detours the game does. The general idea of having Cloud bond with Aerith is core and should be kept. Remove the sidequest where you have to find the kids but keep the part where you have to beat the hedgehog pie king.

>Chapter 9
Reduce the robot minigame amount from 3 to 2, and make both a little trickier to do. Hard mode no longer forces you to do them.
Change wall market music to the opressed people (remake version, the one you hear when you meet the bandit group. It is perfect), but keep the honey bee inn music when you get near it. Add male strippers to the honey bee inn, make it degenerate and gay, yes, i am serious, that should be the whole point. Remove the scene when you get to Corneo's mansion and they sleep you with sleep powder, instead you just walk where Tifa is.

>Chapter 10
Reduce the amount of time you spend in the sewers, just make it a little smaller.

>>719024669
>Chapter 11
Reduce the amount of time you spend in the train graveyard, just make it a little smaller.

>Chapter 12
Delete the whispers completely except when you are about to get to the pillar, theres a scene where Aerith is trying to connect with the planet and the whispers appear to block you. I like that because it gives you the idea that Aerith knows exactly what they are and that they are connected to the planet, they are not just random ghosts, its subtle and it gives the idea that aerith is begging the planet to let them save sector 7 and not just go through the motions. Delete the scene with Aerith helping betty back. Remove the music playing when the plate is falling. Add a scene of the upper plate perception of the plate fall for impact purposes, my suggestion would be Jessie dad and mom having one last touching moment before they feel an earthquake and bam, it goes to black.

>Chapter 13
Add smoke and more debris when you visit sector 7 destroyed. Add NPCs crying for their missing loved ones and kids NPC crying like "wheres my dad, wheres my mom", implying a lot of people died but not necessarily everyone, its natural that some had the time to escape. Keep the scene of Sephiroth haunting Cloud since it is my favorite, but change his dialogue slightly. Make it more "personal" to Cloud, not like exposition to the player. In the Vanilla dialogue hes making a point on Cloud strong desire to be strong and a hero, but fails to do so, showing seph desire to break him. In my version, he would say something more general like "You failed. What kind of hero are you? You are pathetic" as he walks towards Cloud with a serious look. More like his own mind is fusing two of his greater fears/PTSD.

>>719024758
>Chapter 14
Leslie stuff is now a sidequest. You just get the hookshot and can finish the chapter immediately if you want to. Make all the sidequests accesible and not linked to each other, letting the player choose what to do.

>>719024842
>Chapter 15
Change nothing, it is my favorite chapter.

>Chapter 16
Add a couple of optional places you visit and engage in some small minigames. Make it more apparent that the only reason Hojo remembers Cloud as a non-soldier is because of Sephiroth showing up. Keep the scene of palmer seeing sephiroth, but make it clear that it is a clone. Remove sephiroth vision in the VR, it doesnt play a role. Red XIII is calmed, not given memories, and he knows the whispers because they play a role in the planet future and since hes from cosmo canyon, he knows something.

>Chapter 17
Hojo no longer puts you to a test, instead you explore his lab and fight monsters that got freed. By who, you ask? Jenova. In the vanilla version, at the beginning of the chapter you get told by the mayor that in order for you to escape you have to run to the top of the building for a chopper. In my version, the mayor instead tells you that avalanche is attacking but you should just escape, but that he just recieved news that something happened in the floor you are in and that you should be careful. Something attacked the personnel, there are bodies everywhere and apparently the tracks go up, the mayor doesnt know because the cameras arent working. Cloud think this is sephiroth/jenova and they decide to check it out. Thats when you go through Hojo's lab finding all kind of monsters, eating scientists corpses and stuff, you follow basically the path of destruction until you get to Jenova's tube and you get the confirmation. That implies the removal of the scene where you find Sephiroth next to the jenova capsule and block Cloud attack at the beginning of the chapter. You get topside and things happen the overall the same, but delete Barret stabbing scene. Instead just have him support in the fight versus Jenova.

>>719024901
>Chapter 18
Remove the whispers saving you from the falling chopper when you are escaping. Now, Motorball is a proper boss. You fight him in the bike, and you think you won, but then you get to the end of the highway, motorball appears, send the vehicles away and fights you properly. Now, instead of finding sephiroth waiting for you, you find him carrying jenova, floating, you basically catch up with him. For the first time in the game, he smiles back and aknowledges Cloud/Party and specially Aerith, triggering the whispers and everything happens. Removed Zack entirely from the ending. Only the harbinger is the final boss, not sephiroth. Sephiroth and Cloud fight at the end of the Edge of the creation is playable, but it is a fight you lose. He parries everything Cloud does and you cannot do anything to him. Sephiroth basically plays with you juggling you, laughing until Cloud is 1 hp, thats when you get a new limit (multislash or something similar to omnislash but not THE omnislash) which triggers the cutscene where he blocks it and sends your sword away, and thats when the fight stops and we get the "lets us fight Destiny together" scene and stuff. MAYBE make the battle winnable in hard mode, for gameplay purposes.
The last scene is the same except this is done at the end of highway rather than in Midgar area.
I dont know what to do with Zack, i dont know if it should be introduced in rebirth or at the end here, but i like the idea of him and his depressing "alternate world" in rebirth so i dont know.

Alternative design, closer to the OG: completely remove the whispers, completely delete all aerith/sephiroth foreshadowing scenes, and moved jenova Dreamweaver fight to the end of the highway. Make it more epic by having jenova trap you and a countdown will start where jenova will start engulfing and growing until you lose if you dont beat her.

Yeah it sucks when companies and individuals land on a cash cow due to an original piece of media being good and then they just muddle it because they want more money and realize that consumers are largely cattle that believe "more = gooder." But in the end it's dumb to worry about that because those people outnumber you 100-1 and prefer seeing their favorite characters in new stories even if they're dogshit as opposed to leaving those characters trapped in a singular good piece of media. Like with Persona 3 I have seen a significant number of people basically begging Atlus to make a sequel where they save door-kun so there can be more le epic adventures. You can't win against retards.

>>719016747
>So there's some dude who's REALLY mad about Remake and Rebirth existing the past few days? There's been a lot of spam being angry about them out of nowhere every day recently when there hasn't been much talk about it and it's weird
No one has actually answered this yet, only reeled in anger over its accuracy so far.

There's plenty of legitimate criticisms, and people used to post them a lot when the games were relatively new. But there's been a deluge of this coming out of nowhere daily the last few days, all with the exact same style of posting and follow-up posts. Why is this one guy so damn angry about Remake and Rebirth to resort to this?
It's indeed really weird.

>>719017281
It's an accurate post.
Why do you always respond angrily when someone makes a truthful statement? Are you OP?

>>719017281
Whats your opinion on>>719003771

>>719026230
Probably red-faced nonsensical baby rage, like he's reacted to other stuff.

>>719026230
Like everyone else I agree with it. I once saw someone get very mad at it but all their points only proved it to be true.

>>719026631
its pretty weird to see having a personal fit over >>719016747 yet something like >>719003771 is completely fine

>>719026230
I ignored that post. I tell others to ignore it and I'm not a hypocrite who replies to it lots of times and even brings it up to complain about it in threads where it hasn't been posted. I ignore it. You should do the same.

>>719026740
If I don't like a post I don't bitch about it forever. I say it's shit, accept it's not for me, then move on. It's not healthy to obsess over things you don't like.

>>719026740
Well one is about videogames and the other is about a paranoid delusion where there's only one 7R disliker in the whole world and he has no arguments

>>719026927
>Well one is about videogames
Its not, its throwing a fit over an hypothetic group of people that made him mad just because they like something he doesnt. And he goes through all these mental gymnastics on why that is instead of just accepting people like things.

>>719024602
>It's a pain in the ass to fix the reactor or even unfixable and the president doesnt want avalanche to win without any casualities, so they willingly escalate things so the public reception of avalanche is destroyed. Just a fix in presentation to get the idea better.
It doesn't work with the intentions.
In your version the president is "lol whatever", the remake version is a better framing of "let's see what these yahoos do, and amp it so we can blame them and we don't care about the city because we have neo-midgar plans" doubling down on the later plot point that the president explains when they are captured at the building
>>719024669
>Change Sephiroth expression from happy to serious when he attacks cloud through Marko
Impossible, Sephiroth has a resting :3 face. Also it portrays his smugness and cruelty at seeing Cloud suffer.
>Chapter 9
My complaint on this would be to fix Johnny's quests, he has two appearances tied with the dress choices and other tied with the start of the dress quest and dress reveal but they are disconnected with different outcomes. It was a mess.
>Chapter 15
Too long
>Chapter 16
I missed a more lively building, like the store where you can see the vehicle video or a nod to a flyer of the Happy Turtle but I guess we needed a controllable Tifa section.
We need the whole VR because meteor needs to be introduced somehow as a foreshadow, if not there would be no mention and the logo kinda loses it's sense and who is more tyed to meteor than sephiroth.
>Chapter 15
Get rid of half of the drum, I agree.
>Chapter 18
>Remove the whispers saving you from the falling chopper when you are escaping.
I don't know, it cements the "this is not your fated death" with the whole group.
>Only the harbinger is the final boss, not sephiroth. Sephiroth and Cloud fight at the end of the Edge of the creation is playable
Hard disagree. Sephiroth is the iconic final boss, making his fight unwinnable would be frustrating.

>>719026927
You're an idiot. Nobody claimed there's only a single person who disliked the Remake games.
They were pointing out, accurately, that this all started getting spammed continuously the past few days out of nowhere all with a simliar posting style, then the other anon tried to deflect by pretending to say what you just said "Oh, only one person dislikes it".

Being disingenuous doesn't trick anyone.

>>719027065
>In your version the president is "lol whatever"
But i specifically said they are pissed off and tries to escalate things so they dont win cleanly.

>>719027028
Haha yeah can you imagine getting mad over a videogame opinion

>>719027085
Don't cry

>>719027270
Correct. Don't.

>>719027085
>Being disingenuous doesn't trick anyone.
Sure bro, now post "he's so mad remake exists" 100 more times, and broadly imply that applies to anyone in any 7R thread who criticizes it

>>719003432 (OP)
what's good about it? it's pretty dogshit if you aren't a mouthbreathing downy

>>719003771
truth nvke
never stop posting this

>>719027028
He's just baby raging and whining.
He's likely OP with how he tried to deflect, honestly.

>>719027172
The thing is he doesn't care, he doesn't care about the city or the people. In OG this is stated later, in remake it's only put at front earlier while making a more sympathetic Avalanche in a post 9/11 story You know it's true

>>719027401
Thanks so much for being here at the perfect time to back me up on all my posts dude

>>719027370
I see no reason to as long as it's accurate

>>719027340
>broadly imply that applies to anyone in any 7R thread who criticizes it
Nobody did that.
Hence: trying to deflect.
You keep conveniently omitting the "out-of-nowhere continuously the past few days"-part because it completely undermines your attempted deflection.
But it is sort of funny watching you flail about.

>>719027401
>He's just baby raging and whining.
And what exactly are you doing?
>STOP POSTING THAT STOP BEING MEAN TO REMAKE AAAHHHH

>>719027440
>after pretending that the post was about "one person disliking Remake", deflects to others doing the same
Ah. Projection. That's why you were going that stupid route.
Always seems to be the case.

>>719027480
>>719027553
Two different posters

>>719027523
I'm fine criticizing Remake. I do it myself sometimes.
I was calling out the weird daily behavior that started a few days ago.
Which you keep conveniently omitting.
Hence: Baby rage and whining.
Plenty of us criticize Remake/Rebirth.

>>719027604
No they're both me. Half of the posts in this thread are me.

>>719027469
I think it's very telling that the people who get most angry at it never seem to be able to refute it. They don't even try, so they just start schizoposting in anger.

>>719027604
No, those are me.

The one you pretend that was one person replying to themselves was your projection.
You're not very good at this.

>>719027659
I think the truth touches a nerve. If it was wrong they wouldnt work so hard to discredit it without actually responding to its points. All they can do is cry aboit the meanie who posts it.

>>719027624
>I was calling out the weird daily behavior that started a few days ago.
You mean >>719021927?
Or does that one not bother you?

I'm not famliar with this newest schizo.
This doesn't seem like Barry. This seems like an autistic oldhead.
Any lore knowers?

>>719027659
What's wrong with liking the characters?
None of those titles is "utter trash". Some are quite nonsensical but not tedious (AC), some are badly written but not boring (CC), some are really doubling down on japanese antics that work with lego characters but not with realistic ones, but they are fun(AC/7R), some are just a barebone idea made full game/movie or too over the top (DoC, BC, AC) but they expand the lore in an interesting way.
The bad points get shadowed in favor of the fun ones. That happens when you have a really interesting world. All of them had their good and iconic moments, and the bad facepalm ones, but overall they were enjoyable, and yes, they do give us more time with the characters and that's ok.
There is your refute. Gonna make a pasta now.

>>719027784
I only take issue with the negative pasta, the positive pasta has my blessing. Hypocritical? Yes. But then again I am the same guy who told everyone else to ignore the negative pasta. And here I am.

>>719027784
What do you mean?
I wasn't around at that time. I have no idea what you're even trying to get at there.

>>719027817
You're only proving him right

>>719027817
Exactly. All 7 media is good because they let us spend more time with the characters.

>>719027817
If you had a brain you wouldn't be a Final Fantasy fan so there's no point in us discussing this further.

>>719028031
Final Fantasy 7 fans are literally the worst and most obnoxious fanbase in all of gaming.
Been that way for decades.

>>719028031
He has spent hours, no, days, seething at that pasta. Nothing matters more to him than destroying it. Don't discourage him.

>>719027784
Not sure why you didn't asnwer. I don't get some of you schizos.
>>719027883

>>719027916
Nope, the point of the pasta is that all of the compilation cannot be possibly liked under any circumstance.
That the only reason people like it is because it gives us the characters again.
Not because the expanding lore, new characters or situations, no, only the characters.
It implies you cannot like CC for new characters like Zack or Cissney or enjoy loveless lore expansion or enjoy the battle system.
No, It implies you love it because it has Aerith and Cloud, and Yuffie appears for five minutes.
Implies that you like DoC only because Vincent is in it and the gang fights for 5 minutes before the end in a cutscene, not because you liked all the backstory with Lucrecia or kinda enjoyed the gameplay and gun customization.
I can see the flaws in the compilation, I have eyes, but they are not as bad as the pasta makes it to be.

>>719022187
You literally only need to spend 5 mins trying and failing, then the story moves along. Cry moar, git gud, seethe, dial 8, die mad about it.

>>719028031
You don't play the franchise I guess?

>>719028802
You remind me of a guy who once said he was done and would be ignoring the pasta and telling others to do the same

>>719028802
Okay? But at some point you have to accept people have different opinions and stop being angry about it. It's just videogames bro.

>>719028802
>all of the compilation cannot be possibly liked under any circumstance.
>That the only reason people like it is because it gives us the characters again.
Very true

>>719027817
AC is complete shit along with Dirge lmao.

>>719028802
>loveless lore expansion
lmao

>>719029061
It's actually pretty good and opens quite a lot of worldbuilding.

>>719027413
I get the idea, but one thing is not caring and another is be there anyway to CHOOSE to destroy your own reactor.

>>719028968
These threads wouldn't be created daily since a few days ago if OP could accept people have different opinions, and some people might like those new games.
/v/ has a very large number of obsessed schizos these days

>>719028885
I've been here since a couple days ago.
I'm just waiting for part 3 leaks.

>>719014980
>CONSUME. OBEY.
Nigga, it ain't even serious. It's all just entertainment at the end of the day which you got the choice to watch/play or not.

>>719029150
And if you have to criticize 7R, what would you say?

>>719016747
>So there's some dude who's REALLY mad about Remake and Rebirth existing the past few days? There's been a lot of spam being angry about them out of nowhere every day recently when there hasn't been much talk about it and it's weird
Stil logicallyl undisputed
Weird how that is

>>719029176
He chose to drop the plate, that's worse than a reactor.
It just shows it earlier.

>>719029325
I... I...

>>719029325
This >>719027065 and get rid of half the children's quest in sector 5, get rid of the second visit to the sewers, don't extend too much the main quests like going up to the plate and the Shinra buildng (get rid of the DRUM), also a shorter train graveyard.
Ironically I liked the Jesse mission and Wedge's rescue.

>>719029409
because it's obviously one schizo doing it the past few days.
but that's just normal for modern /v/. we're mostly conditioned to that type of posting at this point.

>>719003432 (OP)
Passion project vs quick/easy money schemes.

>>719029409
>>719029954
His posts aren't bothering anyone.

>>719007302
>>719007802
I think Zack was better in VII just because of the Kalm flashback where Cloud is level 15 implies that Zack was also lvl 15 when he died.
I also like to think that Mako Poisoning was the reason no one noticed that Cloud was lvl 7 AFTER the Nibelheim incident, even if the flashback said he was lvl 15.

Zack was better as a SOLDIER jobber that, after running and being mako poisoned, is executed by Shinra troops. Fight me.

>>719030057
>quick/easy

>>719030080
I think schizo posts obsessed with one thing spamming /v/ has been a huge problem for ages, but that fight's been lost for a long time now.
that's just the standard state of /v/ nowadays. no real use pining for an older /v/ that will never come back

>>719030057
True, remake is only taking them 15 years to create.

>>719029061
>>719028885
>>719029325
>>719029757
You finally have someone that discusses with you and this is how you behave.
See how i was right on your shitposting? It's always the same.

>>719030093
>Mako Poisoning was the reason no one noticed that Cloud was lvl 7 AFTER the Nibelheim incident
>Something something levels vs storytelling
No one knew he was mako poisoned. Cloud was proficient enough for untrained eyes to pass as a SOLDIER after being experimented on. He had the physicallity of a soldier but not the experience.
>Zack was better as a SOLDIER jobber that, after running and being mako poisoned, is executed by Shinra troops. Fight me.
In OG? sure, I would say he jobbed because of the experimentation and that would be ok, but not because he was inherently weaker.

>>719030246
If his posts made anyone mad they would be a problem, but they don't, so it's not a big deal

>>719030397
Why don't you discuss with them? You'd rather talk to me, about me, instead?

>>719030397
I liked getting those (you)s
Brings back memories of years past. It's been quite a while since I've posted on /v/

>>719030807
schizo spam is detrimental and lowers the quality of /v/
but that's the standard state of modern /v/

>>719031042
/v/ was worse than this, much worse

>>719030807
Anon, a post or thread doesn't have to make someone mad in order to be a shitty post or thread.
Don't be dumb now. Not even saying OP is any of that, but your post is silly.

>>719031112
not really, no

>>719030868
>>719030901
...thats your answer? im already discussing, you wont know which ones are my posts though :^)

>>719031042
I actually have no problem with the post, but the 300 melty posts it generates as someone cries their eyes out and writes up boring exposes is tiresome. They should just post their rebuttal and move on. But instead they spend 5 hours trying to get revenge on the anon who posted it, usually with blatant samefagging. All it does is shit up the thread and prove how much it got under their skin.
Personally I can't imagine being so defensive about a guy saying compilation is shit. (It has its highs and lows)

>>719030750
>No one knew he was mako poisoned.
No one even knew Cloud aside from Tifa.
>Cloud was proficient enough for untrained eyes to pass as a SOLDIER after being experimented on
I think it said somewhere that Cloud failed his SOLDIER test not because of his physique but because of his mental strength, so he would've passed for a SOLDIER physically even if not experimented on.

The OG one is so much more grounded and everything afterwards feels like anime. Just looking at the flashback,
>first enemy is a dragon that deals thousands of damage to you
>Sephiroth takes no damage, doesn't even have a flinch animation
>dragon is one hit from Sephiroth
>all the while heartbeats are playing in the background to intensify the scene
This is what storytelling is about, not what they're doing now. There is NO threat in Sephiroth at all. The OG conveyed every single thing better than the remake.

>>719031123
All posts I don't like are written by someone who is incredibly angry and crying

>>719031285
That's a fair point

>>719031378
Did you reply to the wrong post? What are you even talking about?

>>719031285
I can't tell who is who. It looks like the exact same shit on both sides here.
Which sort of continues to prove the statement that Final Fantasy 7 fans are the fucking worst in gaming there is.

>>719003432 (OP)
it's the only one that Sakaguchi contributed to

>>719007802
In fairness, SOLDIERs weren't really all that impressive in the original game. They were just fodder enemies. If you only take the original game at face value, then Cloud alone was several times stronger than any SOLDIER other than Sephiroth.

Compilation mitigated things a little bit, but even in Rebirth, a 2nd Class SOLDIER is no match for literally anyone in your party, and the Turks are consistently portrayed as the bigger threat.

>>719027065
>>Change Sephiroth expression from happy to serious when he attacks cloud through Marko
>Impossible, Sephiroth has a resting :3 face. Also it portrays his smugness and cruelty at seeing Cloud suffer.
Yeah thats why i added that these sephiroth apparations are more like Cloud perception of Sephiroth rather than Sephiroth himself.
>>Chapter 9
>My complaint on this would be to fix Johnny's quests, he has two appearances tied with the dress choices and other tied with the start of the dress quest and dress reveal but they are disconnected with different outcomes. It was a mess.
I mean...it adds to the replayabity i guess?
>>Chapter 15
>Too long
Really cool atmosphere though
>>Chapter 16
>I missed a more lively building, like the store where you can see the vehicle video or a nod to a flyer of the Happy Turtle but I guess we needed a controllable Tifa section.
It was night time, maybe the public stuff was closed?
>We need the whole VR because meteor needs to be introduced somehow as a foreshadow, if not there would be no mention and the logo kinda loses it's sense and who is more tyed to meteor than sephiroth.
Meteor already appears at the end of the game with the harbinger
>>Chapter 18
>>Remove the whispers saving you from the falling chopper when you are escaping.
>I don't know, it cements the "this is not your fated death" with the whole group.
Yeah but we already have that idea from before.
>>Only the harbinger is the final boss, not sephiroth. Sephiroth and Cloud fight at the end of the Edge of the creation is playable
>Hard disagree. Sephiroth is the iconic final boss, making his fight unwinnable would be frustrating.
I would have saved Human sephiroth boss fight for part 2 to be honest.

>>719030807
Nah, this is a shitty bait thread.
This entire thread has been largely a shitshow. Which seemed to be OP's intent.

>>719031309
>aside from Tifa
Tifa did notice something wrong, but not mako poisoning. In-world, mako poisoning for normal people is being a drooling vegetable. He snapped out of it when he saw her, quickly enough for her to "ignore" it.
>The OG conveyed every single thing better than the remake.
What OG had to convey is not the same of what remake has to convey, the gameplay is different, the mood is different and thepossible knowledge of players is different because of the compilation.
You may like it or not, but it HAD to be different.

>>719031309
>This is what storytelling is about, not what they're doing now. There is NO threat in Sephiroth at all. The OG conveyed every single thing better than the remake.
The original just did what it could with its limited mechanics.
Rebirth uses everything it cant to not only teach the player but also let him know how strong sephiroth is. How he moves, how he fights and teaches Cloud. Its not just "take no damage and do 3k damage".

>>719031727
Lots of people are discussing the games just fine, feel free to join in

>>719031309
Cloud became the lowest grunt rank after failing his tests however in Crisis Core Zack is impressed but Clouds stamina to which Cloud replies that he's a rural boy and is therefore used to hikes and other physically exhausting stuff, hes always been physically capable but I don't know if its ever explained why he failed his tests, he also lifts Sephiroth after being impaled by him and throws him away so Cloud is as much of a Chad as Zack is

>>719032104
nta, but it's pretty much two anons (possibly one self-replying) wanking each other off, while everything else is shit

>>719032143
Low self-esteem and willpower. Cloud is hyper-talented, but has a bunch of psychological complexes even before the trauma that would have made him a really poor fit for SOLDIER.

>>719032028
>Rebirth uses everything it cant to not only teach the player but also let him know how strong sephiroth is. How he moves, how he fights and teaches Cloud. Its not just "take no damage and do 3k damage".
When Sephiroth is a playable character, he is weak as shit and feels like a normal party character, which is not conveying a particularly strong villain. There is no reason for the terror implied when he is just another guy with better materia. They do not fix this in any cutscene either.
>What OG had to convey is not the same of what remake has to convey
Of course it isn't the same MOSTLY, but for the parts that are 1:1, IE the Kalm flashback, they could've done a lot better. They could've made Sephiroth a lot higher level and enemies trivial when he is by your side but chose not to.
The sector 7 escape scene was also downplayed A LOT with no real reason for it but to undo the impact of the plate falling. There are things that are just way too happy and colorful for a story like this in the remakes.

>>719003432 (OP)
It's not.
Remake and Rebirth are pretty damn good, but with problems where and there (but so did the OG if we're being honest).
Every other compilation thing h as largely been trash. I'm surprised they remastered Crisis Core with no alterations story/script-wise.

>>719032652
>he is weak as shit and feels like a normal party character
Hes not, lol. Hes broken as fuck. He can fill his limit almost instantly, his dodge is broken and gives him a lot of mobility. His attacks are fast. His parry is really generous and blocks pretty much everything. This is the difference between OG sephiroth and remake sephiroth gameplay. One is just not playable. The other one you can feel it through his design.
Like, i dont know what you expected. Lets say for a second that it is all wrong. How do you fix it? Do you make sephiroth take no damage at all, soloing the entire chapter? do you make him do 9999 with each hit, completely robbing the player from using him and learn him?

>>719032652
That's because you don't know how to use him. Despite having a pretty mediocre materia loadout and equipment, Sephiroth's fundamental properties easily make him the best character in the game. A lot of his attacks have insane i-frames, he has a bunch of different situational abilities and the base damage of his attacks outstrip everyone else. If you could actually change his equipment, he'd be broken as fuck.

>>719003432 (OP)
Why do people die when they are killed?

>>719031602
>Cloud perception of Sephiroth rather than Sephiroth himself.
In Marco's case it's probably Sephiroth himself.
>it adds to the replayabity i guess?
It's not that, we tell Johnny Tifa is with the Don, he's kinda bothered but ok, then in another place he acts like it's the first time he hears about it and he's all drama about it. It just needed better tweaks in the dialogue branching.
>maybe the public stuff was closed?
It could've been a TV passing the stills in the background where the vehicle exposition was.
>Meteor already appears at the end
>we already have that idea from before
sometimes you need to foreshadow things more than once.
>Human sephiroth boss fight
You either do it only at the third installment or do it all three. I understand why they did it like this tho.

>>719032973
>do you make him do 9999 with each hit, completely robbing the player from using him and learn him
sure
or just have him be uncontrollable and annihilate whatever enemy you go against similar to the original

>>719003591
Truth Nuke.

>>719021072
The same thing they answer back to you, for they're all otakus and they know the "holy language" (the japanese) that "cannot be translated without errors". Just a coping method to put down any kind of criticism against their fandom presented as official lore.

>>719033271
The flashback chapter is essentially meant to be a tutorial, so it'd be completely impractical to spend the first hour or so of the game just letting the AI do everything for you.

>>719032973
>>719032998
Sephiroth's whole thing in the OG flashback was that he was portrayed with high stats, master materia, a sword no one else can wield and an unknown force making him better than the best SOLDIERs before him. As soon as you get to Mt. Nibel with the party, the enemies feel weaker than in the flashback and you're practically at the same level power-wise where Sephiroth was.
>That's because you don't know how to use him
>Do you make him do 9999 with each hit, completely robbing the player from using him and learn him?
Why would I need to learn him? I don't recall needing to know his moveset or skills in order to advance at any point in either games.
Also, yes. I would make him just instakill everything and make the flashback shorter because showing off Sephiroth's power being somewhat unachievable compared to your low level is the whole point of the flashback.

>>719033415
>Sephiroth's whole thing in the OG flashback was that he was portrayed with high stats, master materia, a sword no one else can wield and an unknown force making him better than the best SOLDIERs before him
All of these are there though. Sephiroth does far more damage than Cloud.
Do people forget that Cloud, or at least in his version of the story, is still a first class soldier? he cant be that weak either, but Sephiroth has to be in another level. And he is.

>>719014519
>>719015093
>>719015949
>>719016549
>>719017336

Have sex and go outside.

>>719033398
not my problem
maybe they shouldnt have broken the game up so that you have to go through multiple tutorials

>>719021264
Yes, but when he thrown Sephiroth down the reactor, he lifted the guy, even if he was stabbed by his sword. Ok that Sephiroth was almost disembowled. A more element that show how much retarded is the gay-feelings Sephiroth has for Cloud in Remake.

>>719033487
>All of these are there though. Sephiroth does far more damage than Cloud.
Yes, but the whole dissonance comes from you being just as powerful, but with multiple characters, as the main villain. You hit dealing 3k to enemies when you get to Junon.

>>719033576
>Sephiroth got penetrated by Cloud and never recovered
I like this take, though.

>>719032652
>There is no reason for the terror implied when he is just another guy with better materia
He is WAY better once you know how to use him. Dude has a monster set for the prologue compared to Cloud. But you have to know how to play him and no one does on their first playthough. They could've fixed this making him a guest character, but the AI would have to be just defensive or, like in OG, the battles would've been over before they began. This was the tutorial for rebirth, they had to let you fight.

Plus the retcon from Crisis Core does effectively justify the powerlevel adjustment. Zack was strong enough to tire Sephiroth out a bit. Since Cloud is placing himself in Zack's role, it would be stupid for him to be that much weaker than Sephiroth in the flashback. Zack wasn't so weak that he'd get one-shot by some random monster.

>>719033796
I'll argue that there are plenty of points where Cloud is fighting on his own. The whole flashback lost its' meaning with Rebirth. It's also a lot brighter, more colorful and cheerier thematically and graphically eating away at the original meaning of Shinra sucking the earth dry and pumping living organisms full of mako.
It's just a whole different take which fails at following the original themes, if they ever even tried to.

>>719030093
Dude: Cloud was just a grunt. Pratically nothing more than a G.I., and he didn't manage to enter the SOLDIER program. He just managed to beat Sephiroth because he it him in the back and he was really angry for what happened to Tifa. He knew that what was going to do, in that moment, with the sword, probably could have backfired to him so much to kill him, but he didn't care.

>>719030093
Due to this, is normal that Cloud, at the beginning, is lvl 7. He is nothing. But there's no difference with Zack, who still get beaten by any mob they encounter in all the Nibelheim flashback, for he can't do shit.

>>719003591
This game had so much soul

>>719034053
Sephiroth joins you at the exact point he should, when the bridge falls. up from there he is in your party. So either you make the climb a lot shorter or you have to nerf Sephiroth somehow and thats by giving you the possibility of controlling him, yes, he can get damaged, but you have to suck big balls to lose even when you barely know how to use him.
>It's also a lot brighter, more colorful and cheerier thematically and graphically
It is for the departure of the village, once you entered the dungeon trees were dead left and right.
I agree on whatever you may have to say about the mansion, they really botched it.

>>719033796
>They could've fixed this making him a guest character, but the AI would have to be just defensive or, like in OG, the battles would've been over before they began. This was the tutorial for rebirth, they had to let you fight.
Damn, sounds like splitting the game into 3 parts and making it a real time action game were terrible ideas that actively work against what made the original good

Yuffie sex

>>719034610
I've come to realize most of the changes people complain about are because of this, pace and plot elements had to change because the story is now divided in three.
Sephiroth's whole presence being the most relevant.
I particulary don't mind them.

>>719034610
>Damn, sounds like splitting the game into 3 parts and making it a real time action game were terrible ideas that actively work against what made the original good
None of that affects it.

>>719031309
The OG is clearly superior in every part of what they have done now. It's clear.

>>719032143
I don't really think that Cloud didn't managed to enter the SOLDIER program just because he has the physique, but not the mental health. Damn it, the guy was sick everytime they was moving, once via boat, once via truck etc. This isn't mental health, but physical health that is lacking.

>>719035006
>They could've fixed this making him a guest character, but the AI would have to be just defensive
direct result of the real time battle system. seph waiting for you to take your turn, do pitiful damage, then take his turn and make cloud look like a bitch is perfectly natural in a turn based game
>This was the tutorial for rebirth
Direct result of splitting the game in 3. wouldn't need a tutorial in the middle of the story if it was all 1 game

>>719032973
Why learning him, if you can't use him? To not mention that, this could have been done in the simulator, not in the flashback. In the Flashback, you have a story to tell, so if in the OG is overpowered, you make him like that.

>>719035682
That's just motion sickness, and it was clearly a mental thing. After he gaslit himself into thinking he was a big shot SOLDIER, he stopped getting motion sickness.

>>719035906
>Why learning him, if you can't use him?
But you do, in the flashback, and in the VR simulator

>>719035006
Is there a criticism of remake you could read someone post that wouldn't make you reply to say "nope"

>>719034583
Sepiroth should've entered the party at the beginning, decimated left and right, then let you fight them on your own a while and then join for the big bad mid-fight to end it, which should've been a dragon and not the materia keeper. which I think is there solely for fans to recognize it.
As I said, they lost the original tone and purpose of the scene; not to serve just as exposition, but to affirm the threat created by Sephiroth and to put emphasis on how strong he is.
>>719035478
That's not what I mean. Remake and Rebirth have a lot of good additions and are great by their own rights, but the things they change are more for the worse than for the better, in my opinion.

>>719036046
Yes, Sephiroth kills tifa and Aerith revives

>>719035478
It's not superior or inferior, it just has been expanded upon and adapted to a new type of storytelling.

>>719035906
>so if in the OG is overpowered, you make him like that.
He is overpowered.
It's still the tutorial chapter of the game, you have to learn how to fight, otherwise you would frustrate players if a guest character killed everything.

>>719033786
top kek

>>719035864
>direct result of the real time battle system. seph waiting for you to take your turn, do pitiful damage, then take his turn and make cloud look like a bitch is perfectly natural in a turn based game
So let me get this straight, you think they should just discard the action gameplay just because you want a section where Sephiroth recieves no damage? thats the problem. You cant get rid of the pillars of the game just because of an specific thing.
Same goes for the 3 parts system.

>>719036625
The only valid explanation is this. They turned the flashback into a training moment, but the problem remains: the feeling of overpower he has, is faded and not clearly present as it was in the OG.

>>719036062
>then let you fight them on your own a while and then join for the big bad mid-fight to end it
Gameplaywise you cannot do that, you either finish the boss with agency or someone else kills it in a cutscene.
An in-game guest character stealing the kill from the player is not good at all.

What they did had its reason, the tutorial chapter needed to have an iconic boss, so they moved the materia keeper.
They needed to have Sephiroth in your party to be faithful to the OG, but they made him difficult to use for new players so he wouldn't obliterate everything while still being OP.
For good or bad, all the changes are there for a reason, believe it or not.

>>719037042
Well I mean he's objectively better than Cloud in that segment.

>>719037042
>you think they should just discard the action gameplay just because you want a section where Sephiroth recieves no damage?
no i think the choice to change the gameplay isn't an isolated change and has other downstream effects

>>719003771
Damn this schizo is in every thread failing to understand that characters make a story good, not just the narrative. He's trying so hard though, such a 'lil king.

>>719039274
Just ignore him, or filter it. That's good advice, right?

>>719039274
I've seen people mald about that post for days on end so I don't blame him. Also it's true.

>>719012723
The problem with that argument is that the new Star Wars movies took a complete shit all over the characters and lore to put "new characters" in the forefront.
a better comparison would have been if this was a sequel to FF7 and some plucky girl from Cosmo Canyon inherently knew how to use a buster sword better than cloud without ever having used one NOR having any mako infused in her.

>>719039465
but there is a guy saying anyone with anything negative to say should just shut up so he can enjoy whatever new ff7 thing comes along

>>719039627
And he's retarded and so are you.

Wonder how they'll change/improve Cloud in Part 3. In Rebirth, he was easily the most changed of the returning characters. In contrast, Tifa's practically identical even with the addition of some new moves.

I hope they make Punisher Mode a little better. Betwen Prime Mode and improvements made to Operator Mode, Punisher is almost worthless.

>>719040761
Punisher is replaced by Ultimate mode when we get cloud back

>>719040761
Punisher should be changed to a less powerful prime mode with a new ability to up its power, like prime mode was to basic punisher.
Maybe retain an attack based on the possesion of the black materia even when we don't have it anymore.
Also I expect more airborne movements.

My guess is that given the developments in Rebirth, Prime Mode will evolve to more closely resemble Sephiroth's style.

>>719003432 (OP)
/v/ unironically shilled xiii, kingdom hearts 3, xv, xvi and redditbirth