Thread 719020325

Reminder that Unreal Engine is a good engine, bad programmers (jeets) are the problem

He'll retract his statement when we convince redditors that "bad coding" is a racist dog whistle. Like drinking milk and the "OK" gesture.

>>719020425
>unc still posting decade old racist memes
*skull*

>>719020325 (OP)
If it's bad development practices than why does every single UE5 game with, no exception, Run like shit?

The unreal engine has what is likel the BEST performance profiler in the industry. It is also a free engine used by tons of inexperienced devs who never spend a single second working on optimization.

>>719020325 (OP)
UE5.
UE5 is the problem here.
Version five, and its shitty, TV media production -oriented default settings.

UE4 runs fine out of the box. Identical scenes will run 400% faster in UE4 by default, and since there's no Lumen causing bloat and noise, nor Nanite literally DUPLICATING meshes, things will look better as well and won't need upscalers.

BTW, here's UE3, from 15 years ago.

>>719020325 (OP)
I've been working with Unreal Engine since 1999 and I can tell you with 100% certainty that UE5 is a piece of shit. It looks like shit and it runs like shit.

>>719021446
>>719021475
This. Current prime example is stellar blade. That game runs on UE 4 and looks good yet doesn't run like shit.

>>719021696
Days Gone uses custom UE4 fork, and it looks borderline current-gen, while also running 60fps on PS4. And said game has grand open world design + large enemy mobs.

>>719021475
>i [LARP HEADCANON]
Proofs or gtfo

>>719020325 (OP)
The only UE5 game I’ve played recently is the Persona 3 Remake. It ran at a solid 60hz but a cell shaded remake of a PS2 game is the lowest possible bar.

>>719022634
Same as how the best looking and most optimized game on RE Engine is a fucking port of a 15 year old DS rom that is entirely 2D.
Grim.

>>719021336
I'm an unreal dev and the profiler is brilliant. If you can't make a game run well with it you don't deserve to make games at all.

I will never buy a game made in UE5

>>719020325 (OP)
So why has no one including the guys who invented it managed to actually make it work well?

>real ue5 has never been tried
funi

>>719023321
the profiler can't save lumen and nanite. you WILL enjoy the smear and the noise and the fake pixels and fake frames

>>719020325 (OP)
does it really matter what the cause is if the audience still gets served games that run in a shoddy manner either way? it's not like the devs are suddenly going to wise up and get their act together

Performance yes, you can make the UE5 run well on a fucking vega8 IGPU (i have a vega8 igpu and can attest to it).
Now you can't make it LOOK good.
It's a massive pile of effects that depend on TAA being good in motion and TAA is not good in motion, unless it's a very slow, deliberate motion.
If your game go any fast, shit break apart.
All TAAs (including DLSS), do the same shit:
Get previous frame, deform it with motion vectors/AI magic to make it look like the current frame, combine current frame to it.

For example the TAAU/DLSS magic upscale shit is made by storing the "previous frame", as say a 1080p image, while the current frame is a 540p picture, then you deform the previous frame to look in terms of animation etc to look like the 540p one, and you combine the real 540p pixels on the mess.
If you keep the camera still, the different 540p pixels will eventually update all the pixels on screen (in 4 frames in this case), and you will have a perfect 1080p picture.
If the camera start to move, the "deform the last frame" issues will start to pop up, both with the deformation itself not being perfect, and specially with the things getting onscreen only existing on the current frame, so you get a portion of the screen that is either low resolution or some mankind horror beyond comprehension generated by AI in the case of DLSS.
And the faster you go, more shit gets onscreen.
Also also notice how i said animation. none of the "deform the last frame" techniques can deal with shit like illumination changing, so you just get a blurry transition between lights.

>>719020325 (OP)
Show me a UE5 game that actually runs well. With actual graphics, not some 2D indie shit.

>>719025067
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ygx56pFaK0

It runs with a high frame rate.

>>719025067

Valorant runs at something like 200+ FPS on integrated graphics.

>>719020325 (OP)
>please don't make us lose our jobs because corpos will eventually realize how bad of an engine unreal is and start switching to in-house software that we're too dumb to learn

>>719025324
>>719025245
these are UE4 games that they converted to UE5. They don't actually use any of UE5's terrible slow features

>>719025245
>400p
>40fps
nigger

>>719025405

For what i know i'm pretty sure Robocop launched on UE5 and wasn't ported, seeing as it's a singleplayer game.

>They don't actually use any of UE5's terrible slow features

By that i assume you mean Lumen and Nanite?
Lumen itself is the fastest form of realtime ray tracing we have, i cant think of a game that does ray tracing and more performant.

Talos Principle 2 for example uses Lumen and that runs at 1440p60 with no issues on my PC. Fortnite also runs at something like 80 FPS as long as i'm not using the hardware version of Lumen.

Nanite is a weird one because it's actual performance cost is pretty small, it's something like 2ms. The thing is it causes other issues that can reduce FPS if you don't make your game with it in mind.
Quad overdraw gets really bad with masked materials that are using Nanite, so you either dont use Nanite on them or you actually model your geo for Nanite properly.
Nanite is also just virtual geometry, which is used in a couple other engines already, e.g Alan Wake 2 uses it as well.
It's not as if Epic made something unperformant, they just added support for a feature engines are gonna start phasing in with due time. it's up to the developers to use them properly.

>>719020638
Because everyone tries to use a shit feature of UE5?
Op picture is factually correct, trying to cut corners by using shit like lumen or nanite will inevitably lead to having a shit clunky game that runs at -40 fps.
You can't just turn on new technologies and expect benefits, that's not how they work. You have to learn to work with them in the first place, just like any fucking tool.
The majority of devs don't even try to make their games run well, because it's your fault for having a shit computer.

>>719025402
What is the alternative?
Inhouse engine? And have a dev time of another 3 years added onto your AAA title, and probably around 100 mil extra in costs?

Like it or not, but engines like unity, UE even steams own engine, are a necessary evil. They all come with massive drawbacks, but holy shit do they also make it possible for games to exist.

>>719025905
What did game developers do before Unity and Unreal?

>>719021446
Nanite requires a completely different workflow if you want to take advantage of it.
Just turning on nanite and doing everything like youd do with UE4 will result in a catastrophic failure.

>>719023940
Fortnite

>everything every developer has ever done with this engine is shit
>"It's the dev's fault"
Yeah the engine devs
For 99% of games using this piece of shit engine is like using a nuclear reactor to fry chicken
When the next witcher game eats shit everyone will understand.

>>719026006

They used Renderware, or built off of the Quake engine or had a big enough team to make their own game engine.
Stuff hasn't actually changed, devs just have more options now and making your own game engine is a monumental task if you intend to catch up to what Unreal can do out of the box.

>>719026006
They made engines from scratch, the problem is modern programmers, even leads and seniors, are far too fucking stupid to learn the nvidia api or a render api, let alone assembly.

>>719025791
That doesn't explain EVERY SINGLE ONE of the games running on UE5 runs like shit. There is not Outliers. Which shouldn't be the case. There is always an exception to the rule. But there is no exception to UE5 being shitty. Every single UE5 game runs like shit. Doesn't matter who develops with UE5. The game will come out running like shit.

>>719026236
Assembly is basically a "just write simple functions that the compiler will fuck up" since the PS1.
Also the actual workload to get shit running did grow up quite a bit with vulkan/DX12/GNM/whatever the fuck sony calls their API etc.. but one could come up with an "renderer API" that does effects etc and nothing else.
But the real limit is not here.
The real limit is on the other workers, not programmers.
Scripters, map makers, 3D modelers, artists.
They all only know unreal engine and/or unity, and you would have to train em in your own in your own level editor and your file formats and your toolsets and your languages and your and your...
It was easy when everyone in the team of 20 was a programmer, now you have a shitload of small specialized jobs that never come close to touching the C++ portion of the game, and are relegated to the C#/blueprint shit.

And yes, big studios use blueprints too, when porting dragon quest to the switch, they actually had to port all the blueprints to C++ to get enough CPU performance to run the game well on it.

>>719020551
Deadass fr fr no cap our shizzy will never stop being rizzy

t. 28 year old zoomer

>>719020325 (OP)
If it smells like shit everywhere you go, might be time to check the bottom of your own shoes

>>719022198
Nigger, why are you lying?

>>719022198
>60fps on console
kek
Days Gone is locked at max 30fps on PS4/pro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlHI9qXa3G4

>>719020325 (OP)
It's true at least on lighting. Very many games just use the default settings which makes every game look similar.

>>719020551
my zoomer femboy bf texts me like this and it makes me laugh every time. literally typing out *skull*, not the skull emoji.

>>719023956
>turns off lumen
>turns off nanite
what now, anon man?

>>719021446
>default settings
found the problem

>>719026084
Doesn't that also have performance issues?

The main problem with Unreal is that it's designed to showcase all it's features with minimal effort. Epic wants people to create a new project, load up the editor, and see a cool open world with nanite/lumen running at 30+ fps, and that's what they give you. It's never been easier to make a (bad) game, but it's just as hard to make a good one.
Bad devs don't understand what you're supposed to turn off and what you're supposed to tweak to get default Unreal out of it's "demo" mode.

>>719020325 (OP)
>Gloria (((Levine)))
article ignored

>>719025405
valorant is a ue5 game. they just turned off every single ue5 tech. literally that's all it takes. no lumen, no nanite, no deferred rendering, no niagara. they literally just turned 5 back into 4.

>>719029791
>>719025405
>if you turn off certain features that means it turns into a different engine
lmao the shit /v/ says

>>719021446
ue3 was woefully unoptimized boilerplate garbage, so much so that it killed ut3. rocksteady was forced to gut it completely to achieve reasonable performance, arkane too with dishonored. it's fucking fascinating that engines have gotten so bad there's nostalgia for absolute trash now

>>719029876
>if you turn off certain features that means it turns into a different engine
holy fucking indian reading comprehension lmao.

>>719020325 (OP)
If by default the performance is terrible then it's a bad engine. It shouldn't be the studios responsibility to fix the engine's issues, that's the whole point of using a licensed engine. They should fix the problems they create themselves but stuttering and bad performance should not be the default.

Unity never had this issue and the barrier of entry was much lower.

>>719030708
>changing the default settings is too hard
Jesus christ, have hiring standards dropped THIS low?

>>719030708
>Unity never had this issue

L M A O

>>719031446
UE5 problems go deeper than a few checkboxes, you either have to cut down on visuals with a chainsaw or actively develop your game to mitigate those issues.

>>719031626
>t. nodev

>QUICK TO THE UNREAL ENGINE 5
>WOOOOOOOOAHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAHHHHHH OH GOD OH GOD OH MY GOD
>PETER WHAT THE HELL
>JOE JOE GET INSIDE THE SHADERS ARE STILL COMPILING

>>719031750
>please do the needful and redeem the unreal engine saar

>>719020325 (OP)
If nobody can do it right, then the tool is flawed.
It's like with C developers who are like "you just need to be careful and smart!" and then they write memory leaking shit with 300 exploits just trying to add two strings together.
A tool that consistently makes people produce shit result is a shit tool.

>>719031826
LMAO looks like i was right

>>719020325 (OP)
OK but I haven't seen even 1 UE5 game that actually uses the fancy UE5 features that both runs well and doesn't look like smeared slop. I will continue to believe UE5 is nothing but hot trash.

every AAA game dev keeps saying ue 5.6 will save everything but there isnt a single game with it today and even then who the fuck cares the damage is already done to everyone else who got conned to using5.1-5.5

>>719022968
>old DS rom that is entirely 2D.
The entirety of ghost trick is actually 3d. The remaster for pc was easy because they sed the high def models they originally made