Thread 719023446

Which is more important in a game, having good early game or having good endgame and finale?

Having good early game is easy. Good endgame is a rare thing.

if you want people to get to the endgame, you need a strong early game to hook them in

they are both equally important
one of the reason Larian games suck is because the first act or two are fucking incredible and the final act or two are absolute liquid shit

Every single game that frequently appears on top 10/20/50 games of all time lists has an insanely strong early game and a turbo shit endgame/ending

Every single one, people just don't finish their games but they do replay them from the start often

A good ending can salvage a bad start but a bad start can't salvage a bad ending.

>>719023446 (OP)
It literally isn't possible to have a good endgame and a shit early game. If it isn't fun at the start, it isn't going to magically get better

>>719023446 (OP)
For reviews scores and awards you just need early game.

>>719023721
>a bad start can't salvage a bad ending.
Wise words

>>719023854
Thanks I wish I was drunk.

>>719023446 (OP)
Endgame. It’s understandable that things usually tend to start off a certain way, since the beginning for everything is basically focused on introductions.

>>719023446 (OP)
Fromsoft usually nails both

>>719024035
Repetitive arcadey games don't count

>>719023446 (OP)
Early game. You can rush through a shitty ending if everything before it is great. See: Stalker SoC

>>719023446 (OP)
singleplayer game: early
multiplayer "eternal" games: endgame

>>719023446 (OP)
Diablo, Diablo 2 and WoW were hard carried by a kino early game, so I'm inclined to go with that

Nowadays you see way too many early game peaks because it gets good reviews. Mechanically the endgame is more important.

>>719024035
wtf are you talking about
DS1 shits the bed on the ending
DS2 shits the bed on the beginning and middle
DS3 shits the bed on the beginning and end
Bloodborne shits the bed on the end and tacked on chalice dungeons
Sekiro shits the bed on the beginning and end
ER collectively is 80% shit and 20% good content recycled around an empty world
the only consistent one is Demon's Souls
and that's ignoring Armored Core's absolute atrocious track record too

>>719024072
Stalker was bad from start to finish

>>719023446 (OP)
Good early game 1000% nothing makes me want to drop a game than "it gets better 50 hours in" just for the end game to be absolute dogshit

>>719024397
>Sekiro shits the bed on the beginning and end

stop being brown, please

>>719023738
DMC4 qualifies imo, the game is garbage until you unlock everything

>>719023446 (OP)
Depends on the genre.
For contained games with a concrete end point, setting a good foundation is important if you actually want your game to get played.

>>719023446 (OP)
Mid game

>>719024514
Easily. Blood Palace Simulator 2008 failed where it's predecessor succeeded: making a good game.

>>719024469
just because the final boss is good doesn't mean the entire engame procession isn't trash
>dude cinematic qte boss
>dude poison swamp
>dude cannon snipers
most of the environments are disposable and could be in any other From game, the only great ones are the mountain and the dream world

>>719023446 (OP)
Most people aren't playing endgame. If that's your whole game it's fucked.

>>719023446 (OP)
Early game grabs you, midgame has an addictive loop, endgame is satisfying. Sore de ii.

>>719024913
Zero actual games like this

>>719024840
you sound fat and lonely

I noticed that a lot of games tend to fall apart ~70% of the way in, it feels like they go "uhh well time to end this I guess" instead of having a guided and satisfying rise and fall rhythm

>>719023738
Ffxiii
As if "it gets better 20 hours in" isn't a common jibe.

>>719024397
>Bloodborne shits the bed on the end
what are you talking about? Bloodbornes ending, the vanilla and old hunters, are both amazing. Confirmed never having played them and only watched youtube videos.

>>719023446 (OP)
you've already bought into the game by the end and sunk cost fallacy will carry you to completion anyway so yeah early game is more important

>>719023446 (OP)
Endgame is more important to be honest.
An early atrocious part can be made up if the rest of the game is amazing, as there can be ways to skip to the part you actually want.
An atrocious endgame though is like getting blueballed, it just ruins the entire climax.

>>719024840
>>dude cinematic qte boss
>>dude poison swamp
>>dude cannon snipers

None of these are part of the endgame. Endgame is Owl, then Dragon and then Isshin

>>719023446 (OP)
Both are important, but for most people you need a strong early game to keep them playing. Personally i prefer a strong endgame and will sit through a shit early game if i have too.

>>719023446 (OP)
only overhyped hunks of shit pretend to only have one
decent games have both

>>719023446 (OP)
good midgame is more important than either.

>>719023446 (OP)
Kenshi is the perfect example of a game where the early "rags to riches" journey is so fun no one cares that the endgame is empty and pointless

>>719027081
Based.

i love the hobo phase in singleplayer games
meanwhile end game is usually some lame grand boss fight, or pointless busy work and ending never feels satisfying anyway
the road is better than destination

>>719023738
*Twilight Princess raises hand*

>>719023738
Silent Hill 3

>>719023446 (OP)
A good ending can save a bad beginning but it does not work the other way around. The finale is what people will remember the most anyway and a slow start can act as a filter that separates the wheat from the chaff of the playerbase.

>>719025073
Bloodborne is the only valid criticism in that post. It just fucking ends out of the ass after the wet nurse with no buildup to anything. And Old Hunters doesn't have a real ending, it's not like Ringed City.

>>719027705
TP is literally my favorite game and the endgame is meh. Once you get past City In The Sky, you're basically funneled through two mid-tier dungeons with pretty good bosses...for TP, anyways. Now, the run of the game from post-Midna's Lament all the way up through City In The Sky? Chef's kiss shit.

>>719029979
>It just fucking ends out of the ass after the wet nurse
i cant tell if you are retarded or literally just didnt play the game.

>>719023721
So true sis
Gonna post this on my facebook

>>719023446 (OP)
Endgame. People spend more time in endgame than in early game.

>>719023446 (OP)
good finale and endgame is required. you cannot have a good game with a bad ending.
a bad early game is just a filter for faggots who aren't willing to actually give something new an honest try. the early game doesn't need to be good because it only exists to familiarize yourself with the game world and become the protagonist.

>>719030772
Unless they never get to the endgame due to the early game being so shit.

>>719030924
>you cannot have a good game with a bad ending
Alien Isolation is great for 80% of its runtime but the last 20% is a complete wash. I could also say the same for Fatal Frame 3 now that I think about it.

>>719023446 (OP)
Everyone experiences the early game.
Only about a third will ever get to see the endgame.
The worse the early game the fewer people will get to the endgame.

>>719031017
guess what

>>719023446 (OP)
First impressions are more important so I would say early game is more important. Few games do a good endgame, I think about most grand strategy games where the start and setting up is more entertaining than the slog of the late game and managing all that you unlock.

>>719030275
Explain then, what makes getting to Mergo a good end point to the game and where was the buildup to it? How is Mergo connected with the Moon Presence?

>>719031090
Both of those are good games despite their shit endings?

>>719031230
they're not good games anon. you have bad taste. i'm sorry you had to find out this way.

>>719023446 (OP)
Earlygame, for more replayability
Endgames are always shit anyway

>>719031332
But they are good for the majority of their runtime. Very good, even. They just shit the bed at the end.

>>719030772
This isn't true unless it's an autistic indie puzzle/platformer with discord/wiki secret hunting, or an RPG with some shitty grind at the end.

>>719023446 (OP)
Early game and endgame is only a concept for live service slop like ARPGs and MMOs. You don't use these words when discussing real genres like WRPGS, JRPGS, Action Games, Action Adventure, etc.

>>719023446 (OP)
Terraria has kind of an inverse problem
the very earlygame and the very endgame are both kinda mediocre, but the inbetween is great.

>>719031787
>You don't use these words when discussing real genres like WRPGS, JRPGS, Action Games, Action Adventure, etc.
Yes you do, almost all of BG3's criticism can be summed up as
>act 1 gud act 3 bad

>great early game
>great midgame
>weak endgame
You know it to be true, /v/.

>>719031787
What an asinine thing to say. If a game has a beginning, middle and end then it can apply. I don't think you thought this one through.

>>719031787
Maybe not always using the worlds "early game" and "end game" but the concept of it having a really slow or shit start and "it gets good X hours in" exists and is thrown around a lot, along with people saying the ending was a slog or in some cases it being ruined by the ending of it.

>>719031787
you are a fat fucking retard

>>719030938
That's so true, many games have 10% of the players finishing the game. Yakuza has up to 89%, really baffled me.
>>719031663
Yeah, should've mentioned rpg. Grind can be reduced to a minimum and it might be fun. Just respect people's time.

>>719023446 (OP)
>good endgame and finale?
This and it's not even close.
A game that builds to something and ends in a satisfying note will ALWAYS be better than one that has great start but loses steam as it goes on.
How often do people complain about an aids final boss when recommending a game?
And just to draw from other mediums. It doesn't matter how well was your run, if you trip at the end, you'll be laughingstock of the race.

preferably they're different enough that both feel fun and fresh so the game doesnt get repetitive

>>719032550
No one has ever disputed that the island wasn't a big step down in quality outside of the regenerators.

>>719033191
Only shitty RPGs have a long endgame grind.

I think endgame is more important. I know /v/ liked to rag on "it gets good so and so hours later", but honestly I find it feels way way worse when the game just falls apart midway, up to and including the end.

>>719023446 (OP)
I noticed that with older games the beginning is usually a highlight but modern games tend to get things going for them towards the end when you unblock all abilities and the game becomes more challenging.

>>719023446 (OP)
early
source: dark souls and terraria

>>719023446 (OP)
Both need to be good. Shitty early game just means your game gets dropped early, but a shitty endgame will taint the lasting impression of your game. A movie with a shitty ending will always be a shitty movie even if the rest of it is perfect.

>>719034993
Endgame grind isn't a good endgame

can someone summarize every argument in this thread as one apt food analogy please?

>>719036178
imagine being at computers

>>719036178
appetizer bad dessert gud

no appetizer gud dessert bad

>>719036178
Smartest catposter

>>719036178
>Appetizers are the most important so you keep ordering
>The dessert is most important because it's what you will have the best memory of
In actually, the most important thing by far is the entree since it's the only reason you came to the restaurant to begin with.

>>719036693
Anon you're not supposed to give a proper response, this is a false dilemma, you HAVE to choose between the start or ending.

>>719036693
OP didn't ask which was MOST important, he asked which was MORE important.

>>719023446 (OP)
A "good early game" should be standard, or the early game should be short. The end game decides on if the game is actually played for longer than a week.

>>719024184
But WoW only lasted because of its endgame, comparative to all these other MMOs that ultimately went f2p due to lack of subs

>>719023738
Dungeon Crawlers are just that. Party combos don't get fun until you are sufficiently advanced in skill trees