Thread 719037583

Finally finished the demo so I can comment on some stuff.
First things first there wasn't really a single actual "puzzle". I don't really consider "match the related symbol you find in the enviroment in their implied order as found" a puzzle. Have you ever worked a low level goverment job where they explain certain political concepts to you? Stuff like "what is a voting district" And then theres descriptions on the right and then the name of the thing being described on the left for example? And you basically have to match the description to the concept, based on some training video up on the projector screen?

Yeah if you know what Im talking about, thats the effective equivalent of the "puzzles" in this game. And nobody would consider what I just described, a puzzle in real life. So its no more a puzzle in a game.

My only cope and hope for this, is that, its just a tutorial level that youre not going to be exploring much anyway once youre done, so dont make it too interesting. I especially have to cope, because again there way way more combat than any problem solving, traversal or navigation.

So, to talk about combat...I think there are some nice ideas. But I've got a couple problems.

First of all, enemies deal too little damage I think. Theres no such thing as "objective" difficulty, if youre not too stupid to be unable to think beyond yourself, what one person struggles with, another might breeze through. But theres actually another layer to "difficulty". Some people may take longer to beat something in a game, because they play in a particular risky or callous way, deliberately trying to use as few mechanics as possible (or to use more of the demanding mechanics over the simpler ones).

So once you introduce this complication, somebody whos actually better than a player who just attacks once, and moves back against every enemy, or facetanks and spams heals, may find the game more difficult (hilariously I literally just witnessed this exact thing happen when watching Forsen play Hollow Knight, he found the game easy while doing the 3rd trial of the colosseum and verbatim said "I'd rather the game not just let me mash and facetank if the trial is going to be long" It actually isnt verbatim, im paraphrasing. But I found this hilarious as somebody who during the colosseum deliberately tried to stop myself from using the double jump as much as possible, and would always look for openings to heal and dodge instead of face tanking, which left me vulnerable of course, since it meant I required more attack opportunities to kill an enemy, which in turn means more opportunities for the enemy to kill me, even despite the fact that the game gives you a lot of "free openings" to heal against non threatening enemies to build up soul on, atleast thats what I realized watching Forsen.

So hopefully you understand with this. That when I criticize this games combat, its less that its "too easy" in any objective sense and moreso that I think theres an imbalance in the risk vs reward.

In a game where you have so many options to heal, EVEN if one is inherently riskier (heal pulse) youre bound to get it off atleast once or twice by accident, that its enough not to rely strictly on healing items. Combine this with the fact that when you die and revive, you get back to full health, and enemies dont even respond and...with all this said, two things need to change for the game's combat to make sense imo.

1. Either increase enemy damage significantly, so that it FEELS LIKE (means) you actually need as many healing options as you get to overcome such vulnerability.
2. Make it so that when you revive, you revive with a fixed amount of health below 50%

or both—

—obviously if you do both, damage numbers need to be tweaked. Maybe you revive with 60% health instead, to maintain the damage threat of enemies. Now that I think about it, im not sure you can get away without doing both, since youre getting free heals and are able to bruteforce encounters with sheer trial and error whether you pick one option only or the other.

why dis nigga talmbout bideogames?

>>719037791
Because its a videogame board /v/ for videogames...

I haven't played the demo but I'm mildly interested in trying this out if it's anything like the developers hyped it up to be in terms of level design, exploration and no hand-holding.
I've already given up on the idea that the combat isn't boring dogshit.

>>719037858
>if it's anything like the developers hyped it up to be in terms of level design, exploration and no hand-holding.
You wont see that in this tutorial, theres simply not enough for the exploration to really reveal itself. Id describe the demo as the semi equivalent of Dark Souls 1 from Undead Asylum up till maybe the first Undead Burg bonfire.

Youre not realizing why DS1 is the best game ever in that amount of time either, havent even encountered your first shortcut yet.

>I've already given up on the idea that the combat isn't boring dogshit.
closeminded retard. the combat is just imbalanced, its not bad conceptually, some interesting ideas, especially when youre fighting the umbilical cord projections. Give those guys way more damage and that fight feels like a mini boss

>>719038250
Yeah, I figured the tutorial wouldn't be a good demonstration of that, I'll leave it to proper impressions

>Closeminded retard
Sorry, man, combat looks boring as fuck. Sick of soulslike gameplay and this looks like an extremely mid implementation of it. Basically China-tier.

Essayfag you have two options or else I'm going to call you a nigger: Format your fucking posts better or give people a reason to respond to your insane ramblings instead of calling you a gay nigger faggot who watches Destiny (which you provably are)

>>719037583 (OP)
terrible advertisement I'm never reading this shit and the title seems like kike trash

seemed like an interesting premise with some of the names involved, but then i saw the demo and it looked like the most janky floaty shit ever

You alreayd made this thread when Shit is Ass demo was released

Nobody cares about this nothingburger game
Buy an Ad
etc

>>719037583 (OP)
I thought the combat was absolute fucking dogshit so I uninstalled and removed from wishlist

I feel like this game is going to have all the right ideas but fail in the execution
also releasing right before Silksong is a death sentence in itself

>>719039220
Yeah nobody is actually going to play shitsong, swallow knight sucked and nobody liked it

>>719039036
>give me your most schizo /v/ poster
>not so schizo

>>719039036
>nooo you need to have children so we have more cattle to exploit nooooooo
Anyway the game isn't about that, it's about (civil) war and shit

>>719037595
i have soulslike fatigue

>>719037583 (OP)
>Have you ever worked a low level goverment job where they explain certain political concepts to you? Stuff like "what is a voting district" And then theres descriptions on the right and then the name of the thing being described on the left for example? And you basically have to match the description to the concept, based on some training video up on the projector screen?
What in the actual fuck are you talking about? Also, you've never had a job and this description shows that clearly. You are so retarded that it is funny.

>>719037595
>and verbatim said "I'd rather the game not just let me mash and facetank if the trial is going to be long" It actually isnt verbatim, im paraphrasing.
god, you type like such a fucking retard.

Whats with all the OP dogpiling in this thread? Thought this would be an actual videogame thread based on the title

Demo is shit, Game will be shit.

>>719041563
why are you talking in third person? you know why people are shitting on you. you've gone through these motions enough times in the last year or two, if you still haven't figured it out by now then you never will.

>>719041825
thats not me tard

>>719037583 (OP)
Was going to make a thread but I see there already is one. Specifically was going to ask if anyone else got the game already. I was confused because it came in the mail just now. Did they fuck up? I won't be able to play it until late tonight.

>>719041825
I don't think I meant to make this post. I don't think that's OP samefagging.

>>719042110
>>719042168
very believable.

>>719042154
>Did they fuck up? I won't be able to play it until late tonight.
Yoooo please keep us updated and give your thoughts when You do, especially the ones pertinent to my thread, like whether the exploration and puzzles aspect expands beyond the demo, or if the combat sees any balances, or general changes (maybe new enemies that are more threatening in the ways i described would be necessary).

i truly did wish this was a place that talked about videogames intelligently indepth so that i could know whether my ideas and thoughts make sense, but its honestly more important whether the game saves us from modern game design favouring action over adventure, but still pretending its adventure.

>>719042906
>i truly did wish this was a place that talked about videogames intelligently indepth so that i could know whether my ideas and thoughts make sense
it is impossible to tell whether your thoughts and ideas make sense when you articulate them the way you do. the problem isn't everyone else, it is you. look inward.

>>719043081
I know youre a retard troll baiter, but anyway, so what was wrong with what was said.

>>719042906
Ok I'll do that and if thread dies before I can make another in coming days or I will. Knowing that they messed up makes me wish I could sit down and play it nonstop famn

>>719043210
I will be looking out for it. Hope I dont miss it.

>>719037583 (OP)
>eternal dark soul slop gameplay

Test

>>719043596
for what?

>>719038383
>sick of soulslike gameplay
I doubt you've even played more than 2 of them

>>719039657
You probably haven't played more than 2

>>719044136
You doubt incorrectly

He doubts correctly

If dubs GOTY

if trips true GOTY

>>719037583 (OP)
Damn I tried but I’m not reading all that. The art looks very cool to me though

>>719045857
>Damn I tried
Did you really? Or did you realize there are easier threads to read and engage with, since if you knew how low quality this board is, youd know, youre not really losing out on much by reading this waste of time mass of text either

since this thread is gay and going nowhere and everyone hates OP, let me take over. which of these games should i play next?

>>719046415
>which of these games should i play next?
definitely whichever one op would write essays about

>>719046415
You never played Dishonored? Fuck, go have a good time then.

>>719046415
>Samurai Jack
was going to buy it, but they removed it

>>719037583 (OP)
TLDR. You're not gonna get people to read your reviews if this is how you structure it. Stop wasting my time.

>>719046575
naw. always meant to, never got around to it.
>>719046631
i hate that licensed games get pulled off the store so often. a really wanted to get the riddick games on steam, too. but those are also gone. and the platinum transformers game. didn't care about korra, but it is a shame it is unavailable as well.

>>719046859
>if this is how you structure it.
whats wrong with it?

>>719037583 (OP)
im actually gonna play it just because my husbando elias toufexis voices the main character

>>719048601
who?

>>719048694
>uncultured swine on my /v/ not knowing who elias is
i never asked for this.

>>719048850
Im just here to talk about videogames man

>>719049043
elias is videogames tho

I played the demo and the story and aesthetic ad vibe all seemed great but actually playing it seems like it will be very boring and tedious. I'd rather just watch it on youtube.

>>719049936
Yeah nobodys disagreeing with you here. Its just about whether its a game with a bit of a meh unassuming start, or whether its broadly indicative of the game

>>719037583 (OP)
Hey essayfag, I appreciate you trying the demo. Last time I told you I had the same apprehensions about the puzzles and posted an answer but you vanished and thread died. Same fears and hopes that the demo isn't representative of the whole game.

About combat difficulty I had to bump it to Hard. General theory, that most people probably agree with on this board, about Asian vs Western games. Japanese games (arcade) excel at tight mechanics and balance, West (computer) is more about game systems or gimmicks, player agency or immersion. I think you see that difference when you look at Souls knock-offs with the Korean and Chinese ones being focused on fun and flashy gameplay but not capturing the world design, and the Western ones being more focused on exploration or adventure gimmicks but having sloppier combat. That applies to a lot of other genres.

Only a West dev would mix souls-like with OW-like.

I expected the combat to be mediocre. Janky but overall OK, a few novel mechanics, fun for a demo but might get tedious over whole game. Balance is not tight. Heal pulse introduces risk-reward but too easy to rely on. Lazy save points placement. Lack of enemy variety.

I expected combat mediocrity and so I'm way more curious about if the investigating and exploring parts live up to expectations. I don't expect to excel either, but just be a bit more thoughtful (and elegant) than average AA/AAA.

I was excited for it when I first saw previews and Belletete sales pitch. It echoed what I kept thinking about for my ideal adventure/detective game. Frustration with Soulslike genre going in wrong direction + lack of combat in my mystery games. Mash-up proposition that perfectly lines up with my subjective tastes but I expect execution to be... too safe. I call that the AA limbo. AAs are weird because they're typically just shittier low budget clones of AAAs, instead of big-budgeted indies. Terrified of risk-taking.

Did you end up playing that GoW clone?

>>719037583 (OP)
It's the first puzzle in the game, they're not going to pull a Wizardry 4 here and filter 90% of players in the opening room. What did reward exploration was the kids' hidden item, the ram gate, and two other gates you find in the demo that you can't open yet (unless you brute force the combination for one), and the hidden mod in the truck.

>>719037595
This I agree with, the availability of healing made it far too easy. But it is still the tutorial area so I'm sure it'll get harder later.

>>719042154
If they fucked up and sent out copies 10 whole days early they better catch on and just release the digital version ahead of schedule.

>>719037583 (OP)
The demo was awful.
>We are a hard-core game and won't show you ANYTHING
>Now here's a long shitty expo dump cutscene
Then the game finally starts and the controls suck and everything feels like ass. This game is heading straight for the gutter.

>>719051932
>OW-like
how is this game anything like overwatch?

>>719051932
>General theory, that most people probably agree with on this board, about Asian vs Western games. Japanese games (arcade) excel at tight mechanics and balance, West (computer) is more about game systems or gimmicks, player agency or immersion. I think you see that difference when you look at Souls knock-offs with the Korean and Chinese ones being focused on fun and flashy gameplay but not capturing the world design, and the Western ones being more focused on exploration or adventure gimmicks but having sloppier combat.
I would be inclined to agree intuitively but I don't think this assessment is actually right whatsoever when looking at what Souls-likes have been released. Hellpoint is the best souls-like for exploration and that's a European game, but then the next two contenders would be Dolls Nest and AI Limit which are Japanese and Chinese respectively. Then it's a hard veer off into all the overly action-focused shit where there's a mix of western and eastern games. The most notable exception here would I guess be Lies of P which is a glorified boss rush hallway simulator coming from worst Korea.

>>719037583 (OP)
>>719025395
>you are a genuine subhuman retard. Genuinely not even of human intelligence. Can confidently dismiss everything else you say after
wasn't even a reply to my post, but you calling someone else a "subhuman retard" when you continue to reddit space on 4chan is really fucking funny

your dogshit threads are only valuable for the schizophrenia you continue to put on display, and you are, in fact, a subhuman redditor retard.
I will be ignoring and filtering all of your dogshit threads. You have failed to foster any meaningful discussion, cope for all eternity and die.

>>719037583 (OP)
Buy an ad and stop shilling your shit game.

>>719051932
>About combat difficulty I had to bump it to Hard.
My whole criticism is based on having played the game on the highest difficulty.
>General theory, that most people probably agree with on this board, about Asian vs Western games. Japanese games (arcade) excel at tight mechanics and balance
I disagree. But I understand the dilineation a bit. The west is much bigger, a lot easier to generalize. Arcade games are too simple interactively to even judge "tight" mechanics. Even a simple rail shooter like Sin and Punishment has way more interactivity than the average rail shooter. And even then, I wouldnt even consider the game tightly designed because of how thoughtless its healing/lives system is.

Something I've learned going back to play a lot of old games is that they are not remotely intentionally designed, they are strongly shaped by their limitations at the time. I forgot which game convinced me of this strongly, but most old games are "difficult" accidentally.

A game like Celeste and Hollow Knight are much more tightly designed than 90% of Japanese games.

The fact that Hollow Knight corpse mechanic, not only limits soul gained, but also needs to be attacked (and loses you Geo) is supposed to be a GRAND punishment, for how easy it is to gain healing from just attacking enemies, and how generally easy it is to attack enemies.
The soul mechanic exists to RESTRICT the "openness" of some other mechanics and therefore tighten the standard you have to play at, combine this with the bench also punishing you for dying, having to beat ALL the enemies that troubled you along the way with less soul to heal from and every attack is more meaningful, when youre fighting for the right to fundamentally play the game at a fair level.

Games like Ikaruga, and Sin and Punishment would be "tight" without the senseless lives/healing system. Because there isnt much there to restrict in the first place it just is what it is.

>>719046415
My vote's on Dishonored, I'm sure the reddit faggot OP would love to essayfag into a void about it too; shit most of us already know bc we've experienced it ourselves amd he's retarded.

But also lil gator game and TUROK BAYBEE
Play em'

>>719051932
Dude can't even stop reddit-spacing to samefag lmao

>>719051932
>and Chinese ones
Also Wuchang before the patch is proving a genuine exception to this. Even fromsoft cant get their level design right anymore. Ever since Bloodborne (post). Was genuinely astonished with Wuchangs thoughtful level design.
>Lazy save points placement.
Yeah, I never expect games to get this remotely right. I can literally count like 3 games on my finger that even do this thoughtfully, and one of those games isnt even necessarily good at it, its just interesting.
>but just be a bit more thoughtful (and elegant) than average AA/AAA.
It honestly needs to be more than that, they hyped themselves up way too much in contrary to modern AAA design. Like seriously, go watch that video where they talk about puzzles and dungeons. It cannot simply be "above average". It needs to be distinct and tightly designed. It needs to be something that sticks. How many options even are there? Technically speaking based on what ive seen Hell is Us doesnt do anything too different from skyrim puzzles and dungeons, and if it can only go a bit over that, then its not only definitely not adventure enough, but itll leave no impression on adventure game design.
>I call that the AA limbo.
I understand a bit what you mean after hyping myself on Echoes of End. Looked like it genuinely wanted to be different with its greater focus on puzzles, but succumbs to that same AAA folly where every puzzle is essentially "interact with every obviously interactable thing on the screen blindly and youll solve the puzzle" also way too many contexual interactions. Reduces complexity when youre going for enviromental/naturalistic puzzle design.
>Did you end up playing that GoW clone?
No, for the reasons above.

>>719053175
then i guess i am playing dishonored next. seems to have the most votes. i do plan to play everything on that list, though. hopefully all within the month, if i have time.

>>719051991
>What did reward exploration was the kids' hidden item, the ram gate
I did get the rams gate, couldnt figure out how to unlock or utilize the ability but it was nice that they rewarded such backtracking, only wish there was a slightly more elegant shortcut but thats nitpicking.
>But it is still the tutorial area so I'm sure it'll get harder later.
Im just not sure this can fix the problem because it isnr just about the healing pulse, its how when you kill an enemy they stay dead and you revive full health.
I also have a feeling youll upgrade health or health regeneration in this game, and enemies even later wont be able to keep up, its rare in games that give you "options" that the balance is remotely tight, even something like dark souls can easily be cheesed if you know how all the stats work. My first DS1 playthrough I put lots of stats into Dex, and so had to spread them thin on stamina, and other stuff. So I had less health on average in almost every boss fight and encounter vs the average streamer. I also only used humanity twice because I just didnt know about it, and activated it once accidentally.

So I have a drastically different experience of the game vs most people who play it now (I also played it offline).
I made a lot of mistakes my first journey and thats part of the adventure. Hell is Us doesnt really seem to have "mistakes" that can be made.
Even in something as simple as outerwild, I couldnt understand what they were trying to say with the jellyfish, so when I pieced it together, it became my most memorable recontexualization puzzle in the entire game.

Wasn't this game that got memed to death because it needs a 5080 to reach 60 fps?

>>719052217
>>Now here's a long shitty expo dump cutscene
The cutscene direction and general mystery might unironically be the most interest part of the game. Which worries me, because It means this could be Alan Wake 2 all over again, me hyping up a game based on the allure of an approach to design or conventions (gameplaywise) contrary to modern AAA design, combined with a cool aesthetic to fawn over. Just for it to...be as basic as AAA for the most part.

>anons getting butthurt how easy the very beginning of the game is and using that to determine the entire quality of the game
What

>>719052337
>>719053380
The general trend is stuff like Khazan, Nioh, Stellar Blade, Lies of P or Phantom Blade, you see how Asian devs are so tempted to bring back soulslike formula to flashier character action and up the ante instead of the "grounded, methodical, dungeon crawling of DeS". And even fromsoft is moving in that direction over time. But even those games that nail exploration, they at best just try to follow the Dark Souls world design template, without trying to change formula too much. "Wuchang, it feels like Dark Souls!" These devs have no other adventure-genre references/influences. Iteration without innovation. I cannot think of such a soulslike that decided to focus on adding puzzles. When it seems like such an obvious way to differentiate in a crowded market.

I was thinking specifically of Lords of the Fallen which got destroyed for having worse mechanical combat, but got interest for adding an exploration/problem-solving mechanic (dual world switching, similar to Soul Reaver, The Medium, and typically it's a mechanic that's used for puzzle-solving). It's a small creative sidestep that says adventure more than action. That's the one gimmick that makes LotF stand out when you discuss all these clones. Broader mix of influences. What HiU is attempting falls more into that category too, let's take the skeleton of souls gameplay but put in more of an investigation game, to try to create a new mix of our own or evoke a broader notion of "adventure game genre" instead of just "Dark Souls" (Belletete mentions Link To The Past or Resident Evil 1 as reference points for HiU, when he'd get more normie marketing points for mentioning Elden Ring). On the opposite side there are the Jedi games, you also see how they took some Souls DNA then tried to merge it into more of a traditional casualized AAA action-adventure instead of strictly adhering to "soulslike".

I don't see Asian devs doing that as much as Western devs. But I'd love to.
Does that make sense?

>>719053669
Yeah but the specs were way exaggerated. It runs fine on lower hardware.

>>719055295
Legit ran it on my steam deck (demo), was surprised how well it ran. So yeah the specs chart probably isnt accurate

>>719055142
Im moreso criticizing fundamental design aspects. I have actually been pushing back against the idea that the tutorial level should be used to judge the entire game. Im still holding out hope the puzzles and exploration develop great, even if the combat might not.

>>719055171
>I cannot think of such a soulslike that decided to focus on adding puzzles.
The more I think about it. The more I cant think of any Asian devs that even bother with puzzles besides Zelda and RE, and I am being very very generous with my definition of "puzzles" there.
>"Wuchang, it feels like Dark Souls!" These devs have no other adventure-genre references/influences. Iteration without innovation.
To be fair I think it tries with some of the mimic shrines. I never expect literally any dev whatsoever to go above and beyond a genre. Most devs simply have no actual creative game design principles. They need a foundation to work on first. Which makes sense considering how corparate and risk averse the industry is....is what id say, if not for the fact that games like Starfield and Elden Ring come out despite these studios' liberty for risks, they just keep making the same stuff but "worse" anyway. Who knows what needs to change for things to actually be different. Id like a puzzle focused soulslike too, but I dont even bother to hope and wish for such, because I know itll never come, and because its an RPG, you cant have the consistent "I expect every player to have X at this point to interact with the enviroment" thing that Zelda does. Totk was the closest to that with relegating progression to the acquiring of zonai devices. But it was still open world.
>That's the one gimmick that makes LotF stand out when you discuss all these clones.
Everything you said is actually why im keeping my eye on this series. Ive heard some people say its also one of the few soulslikes that has DS1like good level design, but I just dont quite trust it. And I dont know if the puzzle presence is strong enough to be an interest in itself.
>Belletete mentions Link To The Past or Resident Evil 1 as reference points for HiU
This is why I want to maintain hope. Devs never do shit like this. If they reference RE1 they only reference the resource management aspect not adventure

>>719055171
>I don't see Asian devs doing that as much as Western devs.
I agree and understand, but if this is still about the tight design conversation, Asia has its own flourishes. Like often adding dozens of movesets that are rarely fully or distinctlt utilized, many either being redundant, or exist just to look cool (Mario 64, Sunshine, DMC, Bayonetta, Final Fantasy 7 Materia system, etc.) I just dont think you can delineate a predisposition towards tight design by west vs east.

looks like people who preordered deluxe edition received it today

>>719057006
Yeah one anon let us know in a past threas. Hoping that he plays it and gives thoughts here relevant to my hope based criticisms

>>719057006
isnt it on september 1 for the deluxe edition?

>>719057627
>>719057006
Been playing only for few hours but really liking it so far. Great atmosphere and alternate world. The 90s game aesthetic being used for the hand drawn close up items is perfect.

>>719059230
>The 90s game aesthetic being used for the hand drawn close up items is perfect.
Yeah, I liked it even in the demo, let me know how the puzzles or exploration develop later in the game

>>719059230
Have you made it past the tutorial area yet? How much does it open up?

Ahh I'm annoyed because it's releasing so soon after Wuchang and I kinda need a break from souls combat and my current backlog is too busy rn. But I'm so curious about this one, I want to experience it day 1 sharing discoveries with v bros.

>>719048850
This is the current state of /v/, and the sad part? It will only get worse.
I appreciate your loyalty to Elias is strong enough to buy games just because of his inclusion but this shit looks like hot garbage, I can't bring myself to pay money for it

>>719057006
>Get promised 3 days early access
>Get 10
Damn the stores really fucked up with this one.

>>719055142
>dev puts out demo
>people try demo
>hey wow this sucks
>dude what why are you butthurt

>>719037583 (OP)
All i care about is that supposedly this game is about exploration, so hopefully it has interesting levels to explore and an interconnected open world.
>combat is meh
I literally do not care, i like SH combat, im sure this will be fine. I wamt exploration.

>>719037858
>>719038250
Who cares about combat, as long as its serviceable. The good thing about DS1 was the exploration, i dont care about combat

>>719060654
>Who cares about combat
The person saying $70 for the combat oriented game probably does

>>719060686
This game is only 50 tho

>>719037583 (OP)
I finished the demo when it was released and it's fucking boring

>>719061092
YOU'RE BORING REEEE

been playing dishonored. good suggestion, anons. shit is cash.

Amazing demo until you become the chosen undead and all atmosphere goes to hell (is us). I'm affraid cloning souls was a horrible decision.