Thread 719083471

Isn't funny how nobody praises a game for it's game design, and everyone praises a game for it's graphics?

Imagine a movie not being praised by her cinematography and story but simply by how pretty the actors looks.

>>719083471 (OP)
>nobody praises a game for it's game design
what???

>>719083471 (OP)
shit analogy

>>719083471 (OP)
>By how pretty the actors looks
Happens all the time
And a more apt comparison would be the movie's CGI and vfx which people absolutely do praise all the time.

>>719086024
>Happens all the time
In fact /v/ will praise a game for how pretty the actors look lel

>>719083471 (OP)
For the same reason, paintings and statues aren't art either

>>719086475
your painting and figurine about furry anime girl sucking a giant dick isn't art.

Video games aren't art for the simple fact they are games. They have mechanics, objectives and rules. Art doesn't have this. Art is something that has no meaning except the ones we give it. There is no objective or rule to the mona lisa, you prescribe the meaning to the mona lisa

>>719083471 (OP)
>simply by how pretty the actors looks.
Sums up how people enthuse about every single Milla Jovovich movie.

>>719086548
No, of course not
And the reason, the only reason, is that they're only appreciated for how they look

>>719086696
This is complete circular twaddle.
>Music isn't art because it is intangible and art is tangible
>I can touch a statue, and that's art, but I can't touch music

>>719086903
>>Music isn't art because it is intangible and art is tangible
No one said this

>>719087197
I'm saying it. That's what art is. All art is tangible. Prove me wrong.

Video games can be treated as art for all intents and purposes so to argue that they are not art in spite of that seems, at best, an academic distinction of no real consequence, and at worst a disingenuous attempt at prescribing what video games are allowed to be.

>>719086696
Then modern AAA should be considered art because there is no gameplay.

People with a narrow definition of art are all pretentious retards.

>>719083471 (OP)
>nobody praises a game for it's game design
kill yourself immediately, retard

>>719086696
>Art is something that has no meaning except the ones we give it.
Yeah, maybe the modern canned shit you are used to or something like that, all real art is encoded with messages, nothing was actually made just because.

>>719088465
If no one can decipher the message then does it really have that meaning?

The retarded problem at the heart of the entire "video games are art"-discussion is that every faggot on both sides of the issue are evaluating games wrong. You'll have the pro-art faggots going all "muh writing, muh voice acting, muh soundtracks, muh CINEMATIC EXPERIENCE", to which the anti-art faggots reply "not as great as muh classics tho!!!!", and they will grunt and drool and happily fling their feces, completely ignorant of the fact that they're completely retarded in their assessment. Games are an art form that is completely "new". Reducing it to one aspect that is kind of similar to existing forms of art (soundtracks = music, writing = literature, voice acting = theater and film, etc.) is about the dumbest fucking thing you could do, because games are all of those and none of those at the same time.

A game needs to be evaluated as a game - the entire experience as one cohesive whole, which includes gameplay and mechanics. Once you move away from trying to pick at the individual pieces of a game and trying to evaluate them as art, where obviously they each come up short because they were never designed to stand on their own, and start looking at games as a complete package, you can start having a conversation. Do all the facets of the game mesh well? What is the experience like? These are the questions people should be asking, not do some fucktarded shit like point at whatever cinematic slop normies think has good writing and go "HURR DURR IS JUST LIKE BOOK!"

>>719088737
Yes, because it's clearly meant for cultured people or initiates of certain doctrines, all great painters were part of one or multiple esoteric orders and were delivering knowledge to the masses through them, whenever they would voluntarily or involuntarily receive it.

>>719088876
>all great painters were part of one or multiple esoteric orders and were delivering knowledge to the masses through them, whenever they would voluntarily or involuntarily receive it
Damn
Modern video games really are art, then

>>719088465
>all real art is encoded with messages
So something you gave it, the message you think it has is different to the message someone takes from it

Gameplay is an art on the same level as painting, cinematography, or poetry.

>>719088759
This is pretty much true and is also the reason it's never worthwhile to discuss this

>>719089904
No

>>719088759
Wagner's conception of a complete artwork seems relevent.

>>719083471 (OP)
I care only for story in game and film if its illogical i hate it

>>719087419
>Prove me wrong
It's just semantics. Open a fucking dictionary.

>>719083471 (OP)
yes sure I agree games aren't art
now get the fuck out of my hobby

>>719083471 (OP)
Kill yourself, cris.

Art is when you can get subsidies from the Ministry of Culture or some other governement entity.
Nobody does that for games, therefore they're not art. Same reason why gambling isn't an art.

>>719090310
It's infuriating how both sides of this entire argument always manage to be just so fucking wrong about it, too. Taking an individual aspect from something that is blatantly a complete whole, and then using that to argue in either direction, is so mind-bogglingly stupid, I'm genuinely baffled that it's even part of the discussion. Like, who gives a fuck that Last of Us or whatever has good writing? What about the other 80% of the fucking game?

>>719090614
Precisely. Yeah, you can listen to just the music of the Ring of the Nibelung, and it'll be good, but it won't ever land the same without the narrative, the actors, the visual spectacle, and so on. The complete work is what is important, and what should be judged, not any individual component.

>>719086696
sounds like art is easy mode entertainment for casuals

>>719083471 (OP)
art exists to evoke emotion
literature evokes emotion
videogames evoke emotion
literature is art
videogames are art
how they achieve their goals is semantics

>nobody praises a game for it's game design
lots of people do that though

OP is a negroid

>>719090823
Welcome to my fucking point, doofus.

>>719090928
A lot of countries do that for games.

>>719090928
Video games do actually get subsidies from various governments

>>719090951
>It's infuriating how both sides of this entire argument always manage to be just so fucking wrong about it, too.
Why do you imagine you're not part of the argument? You're on the side of "games are art", too. You're making good arguments for it.

>>719083471 (OP)
Art is a meaningless word. It's only ever used to show that somebody really likes something. It never actually says anything about it. It's worthless and only retards use it.

>>719091357
If anything, I'm part of an argument that doesn't exist. I'd place myself in the "video games could potentially be art, if we ever bothered to evaluate them as games" camp, but the rest of the conversation isn't there yet.

>>719083471 (OP)
>Isn't funny how nobody praises a game for it's game design
Fuck off.

>>719088759
>>719090310
I'm happy to see I'm not alone at least. I'm still not going to do anything with that, since I don't feel like swimming through a sea of shit to have the better discussion anymore.

>>719091714
I'm there. I think most of the "games are art" camp is quite ready to join you if they're not already there, and that you're raging against a /v/ stereotype. Of course, /v/ isn't really ready for that conversation but that's due to the prevalence of the anti-art crowd here.

>>719092209
>and that you're raging against a /v/ stereotype
Nah, it's just as prevalent outside of /v/. You'll have plenty out there who'll cite games like MGS4, TLOU, Nu-GOW, and who knows what else as examples of "games as art", almost always reduced to just the writing and/or voice acting, without even asking whether these games deliver on all the other aspects of a video game at the same level. The notion of "good writing/music means it's art" is a very widespread one.

>>719092456
People have inherent biases about what "good gameplay" looks like just like good music and good writing. If not more so. If the average person accepted games as art, all they'd do is start calling games they think are really fun "art" more often.

>>719092456
Those are just normies with shit opinions on art to begin with, but that does show that the notion that games are art has penetrated the mainstream

>>719083471 (OP)
>nobody praises a game for it's game design, and everyone praises a game for it's graphics?
what?
being a graphixfags has always been mocked

>>719091280
>>719091250
Then they're art.

>nobody praises a game for it's game design
If you go to the MoMA you'll see that they picked plenty of minimalistic and arcadey games to represent vidya as art.