Thread 719088306

>Villain is evil because... he wants things to be organized properly!

What's so bad about that?

He is raging against the divine order.
He seeks to prolong the existence of magic in the land, and to remain at the head of it all in a similar vein to how Melkor tied himself to all Arda.
The idea that Eru Illuvatar could care for men more than Eldar, Ainur, and Maiar and have them chosen as the beings to create the second music over him disturbs him to no end.

>>719088306 (OP)
Lawful villain tyrant villains who actually genuinely give a shit about law, order and stability while holding ideals like loyalty and honor in high regards despite being ruthlessly ambitious are easily my favorite type of characters.

I WILL DESTROY YOU WITH THE REST OF THE POWER RANGERS

>>719088693
you've never read a single solitary sentence from LOTR have you

>>719088306 (OP)
He wants to sort a library alphabetically instead by category.

>>719088693
what does that have to do with sauron

>>719088306 (OP)
Because when cities don't look like Detroit it's fascism.

>>719088761
>>719088796
>NOOO YOUR POST MUST BE ABOUT LORD OF THE RINGS

>>719088587
>>719088693
As see in the Last Ringbearer

>>719088818
So the orcish hoards are MAGA?
Honestly makes sense given how the Orc and uruk hai were killing each other the 2nd their overlord wasn't around.

are Hobbits or Dwarves children of Illuvatar too

“In my story Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible. He had gone the way of all tyrants: beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth. But he went further than human tyrants in pride and the lust for domination, being in origin an immortal (angelic) spirit.* In The Lord of the Rings the conflict is not basically about 'freedom', though that is naturally involved. It is about God, and His sole right to divine honour. The Eldar and the Númenóreans believed in The One, the true God, and held worship of any other person an abomination. Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants; if he had been victorious he would have demanded divine honour from all rational creatures and absolute temporal power over the whole world.”

>>719088306 (OP)
Didnt he turn evil because of a woman

>>719088858
I mean yeah, who do you think is on the thread image?

>>719088924
>Hobbits
Yes
>Dwarves
Aule's, but he adopted them.

>>719088306 (OP)
Never under any circumstances let autismos get anywhere near real power. You think 7,000 years of retards was bad? Spergs would be worse.

>>719089030
>if someone posts pepe you must only talk about frogs from then on

>>719088693
the best way to play Kingmaker

>>719089169
Who?

>>719088973
He turned evil because his master Melkor told him that the way to achieve the order he desired was to fucking conquer everything and kill everyone who resists.
When Melkor was banished, he just continued his work.

>>719089356
The guy who people want to finish grrm's work once martin kicks the bucket.

>>719089421
So it wasnt because he was denied galussy

>>719089454
I don't think Sauron ever gave a shit about pussy

>>719089421
Well, he did say he was sorry to Eonwe, but ran away when Eonwe told him he must stand trail as well.

>>719089489
Did you not watch rings of power?

>>719089437
If he's so good then why does he have to finish other people's work instead of creating his own?

>>719088693
t. sociopath

>>719089545
>you are not a retard?
No

>>719089572
You're retarded.
>>719089169
His stuff is some of the best I've ever read

>>719088306 (OP)
He's a swordgrabbing lefty.
So that he can oppress and enslave people without resistance.

>>719089437
>people
Look I don't like Sanderson having become disillusioned with him but people repeating this are proving they're literal retards.
Sanderson has said on record that he never even finished the first book of A Song of Ice and Fire because it was "too much for his mormon sensibilities" dude also has his shitty-ass Cosmere-MCU shit to shit out now. Anyone who honestly thinks he should finish grrm's work is a literal fucking retard because Sanderson has said he'd never touch it with a ten foot pole.

>>719089682
But its canon

>>719089732
eat shit

>>719089683
>best ive ever read
Simply put: You need to read more if you honestly think this. The same way people who only read Eragon and go "THIS IS AMAZING!" have only likely ever read Eragon so they have nothing else to compare it to.

>>719089750
SauRRRRRon wants his Galussy...

>>719089572
Brandon Sanderson has already created his own fantasy series, the reason people want him to do gurm's work as well is because he also finished the wheel of time fantasy series when Robert Jordan kicked the bucket.

>>719089545
That's as non-canon as it gets.
The directors made it as non canon as possible because they didn't want people who read the Silmarillion to know what's going to happen.
Thereby ruining Tolkien's vision.

>>719089732
In what way?

>>719089823
Missing the point. Sanderson was a turbo WoT nerd and Harriet specifically chose him after reading Elantris. Sanderson hasn't and doesn't want to read A Song of Ice and Fire. He'd never finish a series he didn't give a shit about.

>>719089804
The galussy belongs to Celebron aka TELEPORNO.

Make way for some REAL fantasy

>>719089879
I agree actually, ASOIAF is better left unfinished, adds to the mystery.

>>719089956
Given Martin likely intended the CotF to be biological bullshit is what pisses me off the most about the setting. When Old Nan makes the comment about "No one knows if the Winter brings the Others, or if the Others bring Winter" was peak mystery. The Others were better as being a living natural disaster and living embodiment of Winter itself, not this bullshit he likely intended.

where we dropping boys

>>719089907
I googled this and it reads like otome garbage

>tolkien
hack
>grrm
no talent whatsoever
>sanderson
should never be allowed to use a pen or keyboard ever again
>wolfe
the pseud's favorite. a complete nonentity, means absolutely nothing to me

>>719090070
I listened to the audiobook with my GF and it is the definition of romantasy slop

>>719089907
>Rebecca

This about dealing about trauma isn't it?

>>719089545
>Did you not watch rings of power?

>>719090050
Either the Shire or somewhere deep in the Gondor heartlands.
I imagine you don't get random corsair and orc raids there.

>>719088306 (OP)
he kind of stopped caring about that when he became morgoth's fuccboi

>>719088306 (OP)
>great deceiver lies to you

Woah

what is /v/'s opinion on Thomas Covenant

>>719090050
Dol Amroth, for that sweet swanknight armour.

>>719090195
It filters people within the first act.

>>719090050
Sea of Nurn sounds pretty relaxing this time of year.

>>719090228
Would you recomend? My Dad told me to read them years ago and I never did, but I absolutely loved the author's sci fi series The Gap Cycle.

>>719090221
Yea but you would have to deal with Umbar nigers trying to burn and pillage your shit all the time.
Doesn't sound very comfy.

>>719089894
Celeborn the guy that she forgot exists?

>>719089907
Women's reputation will never recover from this. You can call typical male literature inane but it never gets as vapid as this.

>>719089676
NTA but sociopaths are the embodiment of neutral evil. As in, they're 100% self-benefit obsessed. A sociopath could never be lawful evil. A sociopath could pretend to be lawful evil for power, but at they're core all sociopaths are neutral (or chaotic)

>>719090050
>not dropping in hobbittown for that hobbit kitties

>>719088941
>Eldar
Did Tolkien rip off Warhammer 40k? Wtf

>>719090221
>mod for Warband completely mogs an official LOTR product

WTF

>>719088587
What the fuck was Melkor's problem? Just sing, bro.

Yesterday I ordered from a bootleg Lord of the Rings themed restaurant and I ate an Aragorn sandwich that was beef, cheese and mushrooms with butter.

It was very delicious.

>>719089907
The wave of female written "fantasy" novels that in reality is nothing but glorified smut is a trend that isn't dying fast enough.

>>719090515
>>719091496
It makes more sense if you know that the author was literally know for writing smut before writing the fantasy books. It's more smut masquerading as fantasy than it is fantasy with a twist of romance.

Today I shall inadvertently cause the downfall of another Elven kingdom.

>>719090462
That's what the homies in Perlagir are for. And besides, there's nothing more glorious than pure-blooded dunedain trashing their mutt cousins.

>>719091589
I read this as a kid without knowing it was related to LOTR. The only thing I remember is the main character having sex with his sister.

Pick a kingdom, you have two-hundred years to prepare for the Witch-King of Angmar

>>719089795
Sounds like someone whose only ever read lord of the rings. But that's fine, right?

THE BLACK NUMENOREANS

>>719088306 (OP)
Everything tends towards entropy
*hits bong*
Trying to keep things in order is a sin against the universe... it's literally disobeying the laws of physics
*exhales*
If you really cared about universal law you should be setting fire to everything at all times

>>719088306 (OP)
I'm sure there's some gay argument happening in this thread but I just wanna say that Sauron's armor in the movies is cool as fuck.

>>719091496
Fun fact: Male writers are using female pen names to get book publishers publish their books, because book publishers have been rejecting pretty much 95% of all male writers the past decade or so, for the sake of diversity.

>>719091650
I like when his sword spoke to him.

>>719091785
Cardolan innit.
Biggest remaining population. Easy to get supplies around on the big ass river that I'm not even pretend to know how to spell correctly.

>>719088306 (OP)
You will never be a tyrant's right-hand.

>>719091785
I guess Cardolan, they kind of won in the end since it was their weapons and curse that slew the Witch-king

>>719088941
sauron got the numenorians to worship melkor
he was perfectly fine being melkor's servant

>>719092607
didn't he only do that because he was going to declare himself Morgoth reborn

>>719089298
LE Abadar worshipping Inquisitor with evil goat wife was good fun.

>>719088306 (OP)
Tolkien saw industrialization as absolute evil, stark difference between London before he left to ww1 and after he returned really did a number on him.

>>719089732
JRRT died in 1973, pretty sure amazon wasn't around back then to ask him to write a script.

autists are evil

>>719092851
This femboy just wanted wings. He has no loyalty for anyone.

Sauron is a factorio engineer and I mean that in the most morally damning way possible.

>>719092342
>HIS JUDGEMENT'S HAND

HOLY BASED

>>719088761
>>719088796
I'm aware that Sauron is a delusional bitch who thinks he's pulling a fast one on Morgoth. I just meant in general. Funnily enough characters inspired by Sauron are more like what I described. The Overlord for example.

>>719092683
That, plus he got a kick out of making the Numenoreans worship basically the antagonist of the beings that granted them that land in the first place. Remember that towards the end of Numenor the Valar were so pissed they were sending out giant clouds specifically to strike lightning onto the Melkor temples.

>>719093571
BANE?

>>719093571
I liked it. Especially the kings speech to his son and the noooos from his Aretha Franklin wife.

>>719088693
Soooo Hitler?

>>719094696
No he was lawful good

>>719092852
So his sons content isnt canon either?

>>719094696
>>719094821
Hitler was neither Lawful nor Good, fascism is textbook CE. Right of the strongest, laws are arbitrary, war for war's sake

>>719095053
Look, you can be edgy and like villains if you want, but in DnD terms, fascism is chaotic (it's destabilising) and evil (it kills innocents)

>>719088306 (OP)
Sauron is literally the Devil's right hand man in the LOTR setting. He doesnt' want 'order' he's straight up demonic and very possibly a homosexual too.

>>719093571
>thing that canonically didn't happen until 2000 years after the downfall of Númenor

>>719094346
Dr Wormtongue, I'm Istari

>>719094850
Eewww, don't try to create some false narrative of Christopher being like Frank Hebert's dumbass kids. All Christopher did was sift though and interpret the mountain of disorganized, partially duplicated and autistically annotated manuscripts and notes for the half a dozen unfinished middle earth projects Tolkien left behind when he died.

>>719094850
No, literally who says that? All of Middle-Earth canon was written by JRR. Christopher never even claimed to produce anything "canon" so this isn't even something debatable, it's common sense that everyone agrees on.

I'm reading The Silmarillion now and shit is so cash. It's just a giant lore dump and it gets my peepre harder than mithril. Way better than LotR books

>>719095997
That's also what Brian Herbert did. He wrote the sequels to Chapterhouse based on manuscripts his dad left behind.

>>719090050
For me it's Nargothrond, I'm cavecitymaxxing

>>719095567
No, Sauron's whole deal is that he's absolutely fucking autistic about order and was only serving Melkor because he hated how the natural world was so disorderly. Sauron had a desire to rule over all in perfect order, Melkor just wanted everything fucking ruined because he was so mad he couldn't create on his own. Tolkien once compared the two by saying that if Sauron won he would have gone mad trying to turn the world into a perfect unchanging machine, while if Melkor had won he would have gone mad trying to endlessly destroy everything only for new things to arise.

Is Arda itself is Morgoth's ring, doesn't that mean he can't be truly killed until Arda itself is destroyed? In that sense he did kind of win.

>>719096228
>>719095997
>>719094850
Christopher was an active participant in The Hobbit and LOTR's creation. People seem to forget this. He was essentially the editor and helped his father in various respects like making sure the phases of the moon were consistent. He drew the fucking maps. Tolkien sent him / read to him drafts and asked for feedback. Middle-earth was almost equally his in the shaping.

>>719094696
>Soooo Hitler?
>holding ideals like loyalty and honor in high regards
He betrayed half his original supporters

>>719096375
In the end of days, the Dagor Dagorlad, he will escape the void and be definitively slain by Turin and Arda will be remade unmarred

>>719096189
Chat, for real?

>>719091496
Yes and men enjoy hentai games and fanservice. Fuck off with this puritan stupidity.

>>719096485
If you like history and mythology it's genuinely God-tier shit. If not it's probably going to be pretty boring. I'm in the former camp so I loved it.

>>719091589
He wasn't the one causing the fall though, it was Morgoth and his "curse".

Feanor did absolutely nothing wrong

>>719088306 (OP)
hey man you can say what you want about the empire but at least the emperor makes the warp gates go on time.

He was an elvish lord who got cucked by one of his faggot half brothers who allied with men to defeat him. Of course he’s pissed off that he’s been defeated 7 times before

organization implies collectivization which is anti-individual freedom which is bad. Fascists and Communists are guilty of this.

*puts you in the cuck chair for years*

>>719096375
As an ainu it's doubtful he can be "killed" at all in any meaningful way, regardless of being bound to Arda (as all ainur are, not only he). His true form is as an incorporeal, immortal soul, that only takes a physical form, when convenient, that serves as nothing more than a vessel and avatar. Sauron and Saruman don't really die at the end of LotR, they lose all of their power and their bodies and they're essentially reduced to impotent ghosts doomed to wander the shadowy twilight between life and death until the end of the world.

>>719088892
I think you meant to type BLACK PANTHER anon

>>719096742

That's why you should always structure your hierarchies based on competence rather than identity.

>>719096760
The only one who one who cucked was Morgoth by Manwe lol

>>719096945
>eats your trees
what now lol

>>719096860
You shouldn't structure hierarchies at all

>>719089169
Sanderson is straight garbage and I don't understand how people like him.

>>719096696
He didn't go back for Fingolfin, instead burning the boats. Nigger tier mentality. Fuck him

>>719096473
>Dagor Dagorlad
did Tolkeinfags really

>evil guy is sauron
>his henchman is sauronman
truly Kojima-esque creatividad

>>719096945
T-Tulkas sama. I kneel

>>719097067
No because it's actually called dagor dagorath, dagorlad is the shitty gravel pile area in front of the black gate of mordor.

>>719097210
>Samwise Gangrene
>would literally lose his limbs for Frodo
Kojima-san you've outdone yourself

>>719097231
>leave Son Goku to me

>>719097231
There’s always a bigger fish

You now here THAT particular marching battle theme in your head…

>>719088306 (OP)
HAAAAAAAAAAAACKSOOOOOOOOOOOON

>>719088306 (OP)
cool it with the apologetic discourse, Adolf
>>719088587
lmao OK nerd

>>719098263
holy kino Jackson why

when I was a kid I remember watching Fellowship in the cinema and that begining scene where Sauron sends soldiers flying his mace was the coolest thing ever to me, I still love it

>>719096764
Sauron and Saruman died.

The main distinction between Vala and Maia is that the later can't enter Arda without becoming influenceable by it.

Valars when they enter Arda they can / are made to leave some of their "essence" into Arda. That's why Morgoth can't be killed - he IS Arda, as much as the other Valar who shaped it are.

Maias can resurrect from death, yes, but valars can quite literally choose to have them die permanently, at least in lotr it's implied that becoming physical again require help from the valar. In the book Saruman's essences tries to travel to the Valar lands and is dispersed by a divine wind, which the chapter specifically implies to be a final death.

>>719098528
Because the narrator is talking about Sauron who forged the rings and then you see this skeleton armor dude walk amour just swinging his chungus around. The delivery was too good

>>719098263
The Return of the King in general has some of the more questionable choices in the trilogy, I'm kind of glad the movies ended there.

>>719099035
Or well, I'm kind of glad there wasn't another book to adapt at that point. Of course the movies ended there lol.

>>719099027
Sauron's movie design is absolute peak

>>719099027
>Exposition sequence that lasts for like 10 minutes front-loaded at the start of a movie
>It's cool as shit and instantly sucks you into the world
Crazy that they managed to pull something like that off, there was a lot of skepticism that the movie could actually be good before it came out and that intro alone was enough to convince people.

>>719099008
Reread the Silmarillion. All the ainur, vala or maia, who entered in to Arda were bound to it the same way, and they can't be killed in any meaningful sense. They don't really have bodies, and if the physical form they choose to take is damaged beyond repair they can just make a new one. The only exception to that rule are the wizards, whose souls were inserted in to actual living bodies for the sake of bringing them closer to the children of Iluvatar they were meant to advise. So I guess you could kind of say Saruman died, in that he had an actual body and not just a flesh puppet, but he's still a truly immortal soul that can't perish or be severed from Arda in any way. The wind from the west blowing his ghost away wasn't destruction, it was just rejection. He wasn't allowed to return to Valinor.

>>719099035
it was the sign of what was to come in the hobbit slop movies
still really good but definitely the worst of the trilogy

>>719099035
>>719099165
Yeah, also has the only extended sequences that I feel detract from the movie. The changeup they did with the Paths of the Dead was even questioned by Jackson himself later as "maybe we really shouldn't have included that". Still a solid movie and some of those extra scenes are still really good, but definitely a canary in the coal mine in retrospect.

>>719088306 (OP)
Nothing. It's just that freedomfags believe that causing chaos and being like animals are better because they're free to do what they want. Real humans follow orders.

>>719100136
Hey, cool it with the anti-semitic remarks

>>719097210
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGi9sUpl4lE

is lotro worth playing

>>719100040
Shut up, Palpatine.

>>719091841
*who's
whose is possessive

>>719099735
I could rewatch the first movie over and over just for that introduction
It’s 10/10

>>719099751
>To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing.
sounds more like his spirit was destroyed

so why are Elves basically denied heaven but Men (and presumably Dwarves and Hobbits too) aren't

>>719103829
Because elves are shit heads who live forever and act above everyone else.

It was perfect, but alas, it is also why we can't have nice things. For we shall inevitably squander it.

>>719103829
men are the only ones who go to "heaven"
dwarves are soulless

>>719103936
That's going in the book, laddie. See you in about 100 years.

>>719103829
There's an implication that Elves are literally bound to the Earth in some way and cannot leave it even in death. Tolkien pretty much confirmed that they'd eventually become so weary of the world that the ones that didn't go to the Halls of Mandos would shed their bodies and just wander around as spirits, still unable to truly pass on. Dwarves are ???, nobody knows what the fuck Eru has planned for them after they die.

>>719103936>>719104224
They have souls but they don't have any blissful afterlife place like humans, their souls just wander around a kind of limbo forever. Gimli is the only exception and he was granted access to Valinor because of his heroism.

>>719104664
Valinor isn't the afterlife, it's just physically removed from the world and used to be a real place on it. The Silmarillion says that the Dwarves believe they have their own place in the Halls of Mandos but nobody actually knows.

>>719096207
Stop reminding me that this retard exists.

>>719090943
All according to Eru's

>>719098528
>>719099735
I have my criticisms of the Peter Jackson movies after I read the book, but Fellowship is pretty close to a perfect film and the only one of the trilogy that has any pretense of being faithful to Tolkien before it turns into cgi hollywood slop

>>719105081
I remember when I was younger I thought RotK was the best, but now I recognize it just has some really high points mixed in with some really low points too. Two Towers makes some weird choices but overall still tries to stick to the tone. Fellowship's both the best movie overall AND the one that feels the most like an actual adaptation of the books, it's fucking great.

>>719090050
Beleriand wasn't that big

>>719096207
An even bigger retard than Sauron ever was and you can't even blame it on the Winnower/Veil entirely because unlike Sauron getting groomed by Melkor, the Witness went full autism on its own volition.

>>719096207
>don't know much about lotr
Who is this?

>>719107120
Not LOTR, that's the Witness from Destiny.