Thread 719123774

>Do you think America and Russia will still be enemies in the future? Somehow, I doubt it
Was she stupid?

>>719123774 (OP)
She's a retard and everyone trying to recreate her vision is exactly why the world goes to shit. MGS4 was about accepting that the world can never change and to let things develop normally.

>>719123774 (OP)
>Do you think Russia won't randomly attack its neighboring country?

MGS4 is better than MGS3.

>>719123774 (OP)
Unfortunately she was right.. but wrong about how humanity would come together. She saw borders but the real, and ultimate power, has always been the wallet. The rich are now our Patriots, playing games with our world. And they have ensured nobody will ever rise up against them with culture wars being propped up by social media.

>>719123774 (OP)
That wasn't really the point she was trying to make.

>>719123774 (OP)
Shifting alliances happen all the time. America and Britain were enemies until they weren't. America and Japan were enemies until they weren't. The only 2 factions that will be enemies for eternity are Isreal and Palestine. The Boss's whole motivation is that she couldn't reconcile the Earth she saw in maps and the Earth she saw in space.

>>719123774 (OP)
We were on track for that in the 90's but boomers mind broken by decades of propaganda on both sides of the curtain couldn't let go

>>719124064
Everyone is our enemy

>>719123774 (OP)
Fukuyama the end of History yada yada you know the drill. When MGS3 was written the Cold War was over for more than a decade at that point, Russia survived a major crisis in the 90s, country was opening up, it was well integrated into the international community, it was signing deals and trading with the EU, economy was growing fast, Putin wasn't the big bad boogeyman that he is now. It was looking good, nobody could have predicted that America would declare Russia the enemy again and start shit with them.

>>719123871
I still dont even get what was her vision

>>719123774 (OP)
She was right. Trump and Putin are literally BFF.

>>719124641
World peace. So of course Big Boss wanted to create free endless war and Zero wanted to create Ai controlled endless war. Good job guys.

>>719123968
there was a brief moment in the early days of the internet where the commoners had a chance but life was too good, now they control that too

>>719123968
That's short sighted, you need to look at the entire cycle.
>Nation forms
>Rich group forms
>centralise wealth and power around themselves
>Use their wealth to manipulate government becoming oligarchs
>Poor masses become reactionary
>Government panics over increasingly extreme public
>Government either points all blame on the rich, arresting/murdering and confiscating their wealth or is replaced by a government which does
This cycle has happened countless times, and it will happen countless more. At the end of the day government holds the monopoly on violence not the rich.

>>719124941
>World peace
And that will be achieved by calling Ukrainians pig nazis and invading their country and killing all their men?

>>719123774 (OP)
After the end of the Cold War Russia can not be considered an enemy of the US.
Maybe an antagonistic regional power but nothing special.
Hell if you look at the numbers and how poor the USSR was you could make a good argument they were never real enemies.

>>719124641
It's been like a decade since I played it, but IIRC it was a world without borders where every country is allies with each other. So essentially world peace, an idealistic pipe dream.

>>719124941
To be fair BB only goes down that route in/post TPP after he gets emotionally and mentally wrecked over and over. He starts off wanting to be left alone then just creating an "Outer Heaven" for his men.

>>719124064
>America and Japan were enemies until they weren't
Japan is a conquered and occupied state. A defeated and enslaved enemy is still an enemy.

>"Today's allies are tomorrow's enemy"
Literally a line from the game, not sure where you're getting that she didn't understand that endless conflict was inevitable.

>>719123774 (OP)
>everyone tries to create the vision of some dumbass female soldier who even fought in wars while pregnant(what a retard)
>world proceeds to go to shit

go home!

>>719123774 (OP)
>Was she stupid?
>muh no borders, no nations
she was a leftwing retard, what do you think?

>>719125482
Actually I'm curious why did the Patriots do endless war anyway. I get why Big Boss was all about that shit eventually but like, why do Zero and the AI do this shit?

>>719123774 (OP)
japanese have a very childlike view of geopolitics, you just have to nod along

>>719123962
No, it's really not. It's homoerotic as fuck and retcons like 30% of the story from other games just to NANO MACHINES

>USA attacks Cuba
.......
>Russia attacks Ukraine
>Communist China attacks Real China
NOOOOOOOOOO

>>719126335
>ruins the Liquid arm thing for no reason
what a retarded game

>>719124641
she realized that she had sacrificed her family and happiness for a spook and wanted that to stop being the way of the world

>>719126492
Not even a real spook. The fucking CIA.

>russia and america were allies but not anymore, i hope everyone can be friends one day
that's her vision for the world. go home jack!

>>719126335
>It's homoerotic as fuck
seems like the average MGS

>>719123871
This. You can't change the world, you can only change yourself. Do nothing for "the world", do only for yourself. If you reach the ultimate truth through becoming the ultimate version of yourself only then can you hope to inspire change in the world. Ching Chong Bing Bong Ching Chow Chang.

>>719123774 (OP)
She was fucking right,
do you Gen aspie faggots not understand what the US/RU/CH are all trying to do by now?

>>719126713
nothing is gayer in the series than Otacon and Snake living together and having a daughter

>>719126398
Yeah man, that great totally not retarded plot point, that's what we needed to protect. That was MGS4's biggest flaw.

>>719126950
>nothing is gayer in the series
Volgin, Vamp

>>719123774 (OP)
This was written in like 2002 bro

>>719126387
>Real China
it didn't attack itself

>>719126950
retard, volgin fucks men in three and touches wieners

>>719127087
also the president in 2
touching wieners is how people say hello in mgs

>>719127087
>>719127023
they're all bad guys so I just thought it was natural

>>719127130
Plus Vamp is bi and was fucking Fortune's dad. And maybe Fortune herself

>>719123871
>MGS4 was about accepting that the world can never change
war has changed

>>719126950
>nothing is gayer in the series

>>719127259
war never changes

>>719126290
Zero took away the lesson from The Boss that violence and war happens when people disagree with each other to the point of fighting, so you instead need a powerful force controlling the world to prevent more world wars, including possible nuclear war. Zero decided it was the best course of action to use AI to determine how to guide the world and prevent violence, including information control as explored in MGS2, and control of military equipment in MGS4.

>>719126647
i meant spook in the stirner sense, but that works too

how come russians are cool with being the bad guys in every other military-themed games?

>>719127519
they aren't but since they have almost fuck all for a gaming industry they just take it in stride or they'd have nothing to play

>>719127390
Okay yeah. But why use all that control just do war forever. That seems like Big Boss's thing. Why were those two even opposed at that point if the end result was basically the same.

>>719127645
major tom made clone babies and really ticked off bad boss

>>719123774 (OP)
Unintentionally the funniest joke in MGS3.

>>719127519
russia being stronk bad guys is better than russia being depicted as being weak or irrelevant

plus they make their own games where nato are the bad guys, its just that no one in the west has heard of them because they're usually crummy slavjank

>>719126893
>what the US/RU/CH are all trying to do by now?
Russia is just doing retarded gay shit because dictators tend to get bored and full of themselves, the US has no plan for the future and China is just Phezzan.

JENIUS JOKIMBA

>>719127864
Yeah it's that simple little /v/anon

>>719127645
NTA but I think the Patriot AI went woke after he went into a coma and just did their own thing. Now why 2000IQ AIs think forever global war is the best way to achieve Boss' vision is beyond me.

>>719123774 (OP)
They were before millennials ruined the internet witht heir incessant whining. You could casually chat up a Russian in CS or Halo or whatever no problem but as soon as kids raised on Call of Duty propaganda got their hands on a mic and started posturing over everything and annoying everyone with their juvenile views on geopolitics nobody bothers communicating anymore.

>>719128039
Maybe they got confused and thought they were supposed to make Big Boss's vision real.

>>719127519
Nobody cares if russians die, not even the russians.

>>719127645
control, remember the boss wanted a "nation without borders and the AIs go about that by using the endless wars to fund their goals, take control of the various organizations, nations, businesses, industries etc etc that control the world at large. Its not actually zero that wanted that, its basically the AIs going rogue and doing their own interpretation of zeros interpretation of the boss's wishes

>Pokemon Goes to your house
>Facts checks your Russian disinformation
>Exposes you as a Russian agent from the Kremlin oblast
How do you respond?

>>719124641
Her vision was literally, "I'm just following orders, just like any good soldier." She is the exact type of person who would be hung after a tribunal for war crimes. Her vision is literally the exact opposite of both BB's and Zero's, (who both tried to set up circumstances where soldiers would not be ordered to kill and sacrifice blindly for the world elites) which is why it makes no sense that they both deepthroat her cock so hard; they both should despise her for being a weak little bitch.

>>719127978
It is. There's no grand design here, just a bunch of flawed countries led by equally flawed people who do whatever they want with more or less regard for the people they're ruling.

>>719128306
Yeah, do they need endless war to do that, I mean with all the technology and methods of societal control that they have it seems the war is unnecessary if all you want is just control.
>>719128367
Well for a while didn't Big Boss actually dislike her at the end of Peace Walker, until he came back as a zombie of course.

>>719128039
In one of the MGSV secret tapes zero said to a comatose BB he already lost control of the AI back in the 70s.

>>719123774 (OP)
I mean she was right, but i don't think even Kojima thought of Russia successfully installing a puppet as the US president who then upends the entire geopolotiical alliance map while sucking Russia's dick would ever happen.
The la le lu li lo sure as hell wouldn't let that fly.

Although speaking of Russian aggression and metal gear. Say Militaires Sans Frontières existed today, would Big Boss get involved in Russia's illegal and unprovoked attacked on Ukraine and help the Ukrainians?

>>719126196
actually its everyone taking her vision extremely literally, for some reason.

>>719123962
MGS4 is a movie

they ARE allies, THD is sponsored by both

>>719128589
He probably would if they paid him enough, but more likely NATO/USA would pitch in together to contract him against Russia instead.

>>719128695
Would you fight against a super power directly? At best he went against their proxies.

>>719128589
You'd think typing your mental illness out would help you realize that you have an unnaturally skewed views of the world :/

>>719128426
yeah good point but... desu lets also not BS ourselves, this shit isnt exactly the most well thought out plot either. I bet you even fuckin kojima doesnt know why it has to be endless war

>>719124078
born to late to really expierience that time
must've been nice with all the talk of hyperpower and end of history

>>719126950
otacan is a bitch but gets pussy in every single fucking game even his own stepmom cant stop herself

>>719123774 (OP)
The Boss was right

>>719125292
>Hell if you look at the numbers and how poor the USSR was you could make a good argument they were never real enemies.
I truly believe the USSR stopped being a legitimate threat after the Cuban Missile Crisis. That was the last possible moment they could have competed industrially with the US in an actual war. After that, the US so far eclipsed them in wealth and power that it wasn't even a contest. The US planting the flag on the moon was just the capstone to a complete and utter victory.

>The Boss's vision was basically let people do their thing. Leave them alone.
>Everyone who knew the boss thought she meant that the world must be controlled by a shadow government!
>Forever wars!
>NANOMACHINES! AND GENETIC ENGINEERING!
The Boss must have be spinning in her grave fast enough to power a universe as she watched everyone she knew go full retard.

>>719128769
Because the superpowers weren't directly engaged in any wars during the 70-80s when BB was operating. Remember that BB has nukes on his base. He's not scared of the US or Russia which is what Kickstarts the plot of MG.

>>719128836
I think it's part attempt at criticizing the war on terror and America and their use of PMC's but it's also like a meta thing about endless sequels and how tired and depressing and soulless it gets. But it doesn't really make any sense with all the shit he established in universe, and it's really only because of the reveal that Zero and pals were the Patriots that you end questioning why did this happen. Like if it was a mystery, or some sort of deluded Big Boss followers instead of the guys directly opposing him, it would make more sense.

>>719127978
>>719126893
>The elites are le complex
We need to stop this romanticism of the rich and powerful when they're really just as simple and boring as the rest of us. Their "grand vision" is the equivalent of a rat who can't stop pressing the button to receive more cheese.

>>719128840
Giwtwm

>>719128141
there was never tension between the west and russia before call of duty came out

>>719128840
that's why he tried the gay lifestyle but even then it's failed cause suddenly naomi wants to bang him (and then she ded)

>>719129174
Thanks for proving my point about pathetic millennial midwit pedants who trip over themselves for lame and easy "gotchas" over actually trying to engage and understand with other humans.

>russia is le weak
>this means the usa, the nation that lost against three nations of peasant, is strong
they're all weak. every modern military doesn't grasp how to wage modern warfare. you've got people throwing drones at each other from miles away but there's no real way to prevent your enemy from hiding behind civilian and international infrastructure and make a decisive strike so it's just an incredibly slow meatgrinder and hoping the other side makes a mistake while the other side does the same. war is so gay.

>>719128982
>The US planting the flag on the moon
People really believe that shit was real huh.

>>719129308
Hey you're not me. Why do you have my username.

>>719129340
what about israel?

>>719129340
I mean context does matter. The US lost due to political pressure at home. Like I'm Vietnam the Vietcong even admitted they were ready to surrender after getting fire bombed over and over. If tlthe US went all out it would be similar to Israel vs Palestine (and everyone else in the region kek) where the latter gets rolled. And this is without nukes either

Meanwhile Russia is out there engaging in a full scale war and bombing hospitals and civilians and shit and are stalled out by corrupt peasants.

>>719128379
Do you not understand that these people are swayed by various factors? Factors that are more complex than even /pol/ & /x/ can decipher?

>>719128367
That's not her vision. That's just her prioritizing the mission over her relationship with Snake

>>719124641
leaving the world as you saw it
yes it is that stupid

>>719129496
it understands the underlying problem. it doesn't give a shit about it's international image so it can hitlerstomp shitskins without problems. what are politicians gonna do, nuke the region? the trick to modern life is just not giving a fuck. if i went to the rothschild manor and suicide bombed it who could stop me? if i got together a gang of 20 guys with an ak and went to town on a random town in africa playing a warlord who's gonna give a shit?

>>719125482
>world without borders
So she wanted globohomo

>>719129502
If you're so smart you'd realize the Russians are forcing Ukraine into an attritional war, Germany lost World War 1 without a single Allied infantryman stepping into Imperial lands in Europe.

>>719129704
Are you going to?

>>719129502
they lost to the political pressure at home precisely because they bombed hospitals and butchered villages looking for enemy spies

>>719129759
no because i give a shit about my life so i'll slowly rot here playing league of legends

You ever think maybe The Boss didn't really have a vision?

>>719129750
3 day special military operation
2 more weeks until total hohol death
Etc. etc.

>>719129704
yeah it all works out until you get drone stiked by the US or france after burning down an african village

>>719128442
so the real big bad is strangelove cause she wanted to fuck the boss
every game after 4 the story got even worse

>>719127915
I fucking hate how small they made Volgin. He is not intimidating at all.

>>719128661
with better gameplay then 3, too bad you could not play the good MGO

>>719129830
If you think what the US did in Vietnam is comparable to what Israel and Russia are doing then you're simply ignorant. I have relatives from Vietnam who lived through the war. The US had its share of atrocities, but overall it stayed it's hand.

>>719129928
>Falls back into immediate cope and seething
Sorry you lack brain capacity, hope it's operable

>>719123774 (OP)
It's just Kojima's nip cope coming out about WW2
>HUERR DERR THERE'S NO TRUE EVIL IT'S ALL RELATIVE

>>719129750
But Russia has more men to lose. Modern war favors defense and Russia will lose 3x the men Ukraine does in every battle.

>>719129986
dude. zipperhead. that's all you need to know. it's a slur designed entirely around torturing viets. why? because they tortured so fucking many.

>>719129989
Hey I already said 2 more weeks until Russia wins (+3 years and counting).

>>719129986
What Israel is doing isn't even comparable to how wars have been fought for the last 2000 years. They say people are starving in Gaza? Yeah, because it's a siege of a city. People starve in sieges until they surrender or the siege is broken.

>>719129986
they naplemed those jungle monkeys

>>719123774 (OP)
She was right: Trump would throat Putin's pud if given half a chance

>>719129986
Alright then, why did the US pull out?

>>719130084
Yes I already said the US committed atrocities. Again that's still nothing compared to Israel and Russia dropping bombs 24/7 on schools, retirement homes, hospitals, daycares, residential areas, etc. In fact as a Vietnamese I wish the US would've just napalm'd the fuck out of Hanoi and be done with it. At least then Vietnam wouldn't become this shitty vassal state to both China and the US.

>>719129986
What the US did in Vietnam alone is definitely worse than Russia right now but no where near what Israel is doing. Of course Israel is only able to do that because of the US. And the US instigated the Ukraine war with Russia. And the US has about a hundred thousand other massacres and crimes in it's history from Guatemala to Korea to Afghanistan to Indonesia to Iraq to Cambodia to the Philippines, on and on and on.

>>719123774 (OP)
>China is somehow a third of Philosophers' Legacy instead of one the relevant WW2 allied powers because Kojimbo couldn't asspull a way for glorious Nippon to be included
lol

>>719129986
>take a walk on the beach
>oops stepped on 1 on millions of active mines dropped by america

>>719129348
Nta. I am the most racist high iq person in this thread. I'm not sold on a moonhoax. I feel like other countries would have been able to discredit it. I don't know if that mirror reflector thing that's up there works, but I'm told it does when I do 10 seconds of googling. Idk bro. Don't be a well poisoner or have better proof.

>>719129928
We're not saying Russia is fighting smart, but it can afford to meatgrinder its troops until it gets what it wants but Ukraine is entirely reliant on foreign supplies and can't afford to take big punches
It's demographic suicide on Russia's part and it will show in a few decades but by then Putin and the current ring of oligarchs will most likely be dead so they don't really care
We're not dealing with military masterminds or the spawn of Satan, we're dealing with stubborn fools who have positioned themselves such that they can't let go of the reins until they die or else they'll die before they want

>>719129929
or i could be slightly smart about it and apologize for cutting down nordstream while promising to pay reparations to the people relying on that cheap gas to get through the winter and then just never pay effectively blackmailing the region into giving me what i want

>>719130203
snake even tho eva brithed him had to have a japanese mother for some fucking reason
doesn't look japanese cause kojima knew it was stupid

>>719130184
i have this weird feeling you don't actually know how this war is going down

>>719130186
>The US instigated the Ukraine war
Reminder me which country has deployed soldiers into Ukraine again?

>>719130313
tatics orge did it but ofc that was fantasy shit

>>719130293
I do think Russia will win eventually, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking this was the original strategy. Putin clearly intended the war to end in 3 days but ended up stuck in this meat grinder. It's why he went from no ceasefire to
>Okay give us Donbass and we will stop

>>719130313
kingdom is le good and empire is le bad is peak writing though

>>719123921
Both sides are wrong. EU/America shouldn't have tried to put a proxy in Ukraine, Russia probably shouldn't have started the shooting. The jew/free masons that rule the West are upset they didn't actually own Russia and war is a good black hole to wash money and test shit out. The entire was shouldn't have happened and it's fucking retarded. The EU should be less aggro with Russia, it's a shithole filled with people who haven't had a functioning government since the Bolshevik jews seized power.

>>719129348
Even the soviets believed it. It'd be harder to fake it than actually make it

>>719123774 (OP)
But we aren't enemies with Russia.

>>719129634
And do you think these people have a magical crystal ball? Putin doesn't know what the fuck is going on in Ukraine, he's just guessing based on very flawed information from his sycophants. How much of it is people covering up their mistakes and fuck-ups? How much is misinformation from other countries? Consider that a goldfish was able to outperform Wallstreet by pure chance. When it comes to complicated systems like economics, war, and politics, everyone is just faking it until they make it.

>>719130559
Aggghghghgh I'm going to fuck kill oyu how dare you not root for my favourite football team slava palestina

>>719129340
>lost against
Brainlet take. Americans went in there, slaughtered civilians for no reason. Grew bored with burning trillions on slaughtering random people. Went home.
That's not losing. That's being retarded and evil.

Eva must have been flat as a board before the implants

>>719130536
>ACKshually, russia should be allowed to dictate Ukraines allies
Go to bed, Putin

>>719123774 (OP)
zero being shoehorned into her and snakes story never made sense they barley interacted with eachother

>>719130536
>The jew/free masons that rule the West
Anon, they rule Russia too. The fact that you are looking at this from a "us vs them" lense already proves they pulled the wool over your eyes.

>>719130614
I'll pray for you tonight Philosopher bro.

>>719130745
They were supposed to be old friends from WW2 and formed the Fox unit together. But they never come off as that close and this relationship, and Zero in general, isn't really expanded or explored in later games so it doesn't work.

>>719126321
>japanese have a very childlike view of geopolitics
and most of races have an even worse view your point?

>>719130880
>oh no my hecking grorious nippon is being insulted!

>>719128661
You mean kino?

>>719128661
Based

>>719131035
have you heard your average american talk about world politics? i legit think some of them are on the spectrum

>>719131297
They were raised on anime of course they're on a spectrum.

>>719123774 (OP)
The real problem is that this character didn't exist in any capacity prior to 3, so future games scrambled to clumsily integrate her into the story via making everyone obsessed with her and her 'vision'.

>>719131530
They didn't really need to do that. She wasn't really important to the rest of the games and characters until the later games after 3 reveal that Zero and the gang were secretly the Patriots and they were all fighting over the Boss's will this whole time. She fine as just part of Big Boss's origin story.

>>719131731
Exactly. Adding a new important character later in a series and retconning it to make them important rarely goes well. This goes for Zero as well, and I seriously doubt that Paramedic was originally meant to be Doctor Clark.

>>719129340
I don't think you have a full understanding of total war and what it really means.

>>719123774 (OP)
at some point russia were so friendly with us they asked to join nato. she's not stupid but the politicians really fought hard to drive a divide between us and them

>>719123774 (OP)
In 2004 this line made more sense

>>719126321
My biggest gripe with the plot honestly is the following
>Is Big Boss against Zero?
Yes
>is Cypher/Zero cia?
Yes and no
>so is Solid Snake working for the CIA also?
Yes and no, he's part of Foxhound though
>isn't Liquid part of Foxhound also?
Yes and no, he's actually the leader of a rebel version of Foxhound
>Didn't Big Boss form foxhound?
Yes.
this fucking lore is spaghetti

>>719123774 (OP)
She's right in ways you cannot even imagine, and I'm not talking about Orange and Banan

>>719130536
Fuck off, Vatnik. Only people with working indoor toilets are allowed on this board.

>>719123774 (OP)
Would be pretty hilarious if Russia and America teamed up, became one nation and steam rolled the rest of the planet to create a global empire.

>>719124641
Apparently her vision was basically this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNnFFKv_NyI

>>719128982
>After that, the US so far eclipsed them in wealth and power that it wasn't even a contest.
Well obviously, they got the Philosopher's Legacy.