Thread 719136056

PAY JAPANESE DEVS WHAT THEY'RE FUCKING WORTH

ecelebs are objective cancer tho

I thought indie devs wasn't a thing in japan due to patent laws

>>719136213
This.

>>719136056 (OP)
>professional athletes make more playing in stadiums than the people who built them

>>719136056 (OP)
Are they retarded? for every 10 streamers making money, there's hundreds maybe thousands with less than a hundred viewers. Top streamers will make money just by existing ffs

>>719136378
A better analogy would be they earn more money than the person who invented the sport they're playing

>make reactslop so streamers will play the game
>nobody who watches it wants to buy because it's obvious the only appeal is reactslop for people with an audience
>how could this possibly have happened to me?

>>719136056 (OP)
TRVTH.
>>719136431
The indies that actually make the content for these leeches just want a tiny cut from the hundreds of millions that those 10 streamers make playing their game.

It's not just a JP indie dev issue. Streamfaggots like Assmongold charge, what, 50 grand to play your game on stream? Many developers are NOT seeing that marketing paying itself back much less making the game more profitable. only GaaS streamerbait shit might see good sales because twitchfags will buy an earlyaccess gaaslop just on the off-chance they'll be able to play with their favorite e-celeb.

There is always the nuclear option but the first studio that hits that button will turn the entire internet against them. Streaming/vidya playthroughs can absolutely be taken down if a studio cries copyright infringement. Really the answer to "is this copyright infringement?" is "Does consuming this content make someone less likely to buy the product?" And.. a whole playthrough for an entire game? Yeah. No need to buy a game if you've already watched it all. There will be people crying fair use and creative transformation but that won't hold up if they play the whole fucking game. Same reason why you cant just upload a movie to YouTube, have your picture in the corner the whole time, say "yeah that was alright" at the end of the movie and get away with calling it a review. If people watch the whole movie there is no reason to go out and buy their own copy.

But it is the nuclear option and it's there. If the devs want to push it so streamers can't make money with their game they can. The only reason it's been getting a pass until now is no one has pressed it.

>>719136626
That's not what's being said in the article. The article says that the developers want a cut of the revenue generated by streamers who are streaming their game. It has nothing to do with advertisement.

>>719137052
>The only reason it's been getting a pass until now is no one has pressed it.
Hasn't Nintendo done this?

>>719137146
For what? For one of their games? I dunno. I remember people were thinking Sony was about to go nuclear when No Man's Sky leaked.

>>719137146
every game studio in japan does it to their streamers. If youre a streamer you have to ask for permission to stream a game from the devs or their publisher

>>719136329
Are you retarded there are atleast a million looking like ps1 horror indie games alone.

>>719137052
the problem with this line of reasoning is that the money lost from potential buyers not buying the game is more than made up from the metric fuck ton of free advertising you get. There is already an industry built around this with streamerbait games

>>719136056 (OP)
>japanese do something
>pay them a decent amount
>another jap pops up and says he'll do the same job for less
>he actually will
>pay less
>and less
>and less
Maybe Japan should not make inferior products?
Did they ever think they might make money if they're not mass producing AI art Visual Novels?

>>719136056 (OP)
license background music that can't be turned off and dmca anyone that streams it

>>719136329
Stop listening to NDS ecelebs anon, at this point the JP indie market is exponentially bigger than the westoid one because westoids are too busy making pedoblox/goycraft "content" to make indie games now, and the remaining garbage is just deckbuilder roguelites.
You just never see any of it due to a multitude of factors, mainly JP indie devs tend to loathe goyjin and the AAA companies like SE and crapcom pandering to them, localization costs thanks to trannylators being too expensive and not wanting to just phone in MTL, and some settling for publishing on the jp nintendo eshop and calling it a day.

>>719136056 (OP)
no one finna even know about those indie games if streamers weren't playin them.

>>719136056 (OP)
Those streamers would make more money talking over the cars going by their window than the devs do making shitty games. The games part is not needed so neither would revenue sharing.

>>719136056 (OP)
I'm genuinely surprised no one has done this yet. If you stream my content, I demand a cut if you make over a certain amount.

>>719136056 (OP)
The solution is to just not blanket-allow streamers to stream your game
Have them go through getting permissions via a signed profit-sharing contract

>>719136056 (OP)
they're right
so many people who were creators gave up on it because it was more profitable to be a "content creator"

>>719137275
Technically speaking yes, but the only ones that actually enforce it are nintendo and faglus, sometimes SE but they stopped doing it after FF7DEmake flopped.

>>719137052
>The only reason it's been getting a pass until now is no one has pressed it.
Japan literally has a culture based off corporations waving this very button publicly in every streamer's face, and if they don't ask for permission and in some cases follow very specific,anti consumer guidelines like with FROMSOFT they are at risk of getting ruined financially.

So if I stream a game now how much will I earn?
Fuck, japs are dumb.

>>719137721
you would have to already have immense power.
So that'd basically leave Rockstar & Nintendo (both probably will soon enough)

>>719137676
>no one finna even know about those indie games if streamers weren't playin them.
It doesn't matter if people get to know those indie games if they don't buy them because their favourite streamer played it and the viewer feels they don't need to play it

>>719137384
I'm not lawyer but that doesn't really matter, does it? Like the streamer can go "Bro it's free advertising, look I even have a chart here that proves that me playing this game has lead to a huge influx of sales." but that's really nothing to do with anything in the eyes of the law, right? They usually try to take something like that in isolation and solve it to the letter of the law. Doesn't matter if it lead to sales, uploading an entire playthrough or streaming major parts of the game would still get stuck with copyright infringement, yeah?

I'm kind of devil's advocating here. Doing something like that would be dumb and could ruin the company but as far as a lawsuit of this nature is concerned sales are totally irrelevant, right?

>>719137721
All that happens is they don't stream your content. Many many other things to stream that don't cost money.

>>719137676
Japan does have journos giving publicity to smaller stuff akshually.
It isn't like the west where all "influences" are paid to only focus on AAA goyslop and literally nothing else.

the complete mess that gaming is right now is exactly what gamers deserve. I can only hope things get much worse

>>719137384
Unfortunately that tends not to be the case. People who watch streamers generally don't buy the games they watch on stream. But like everything it's all caveats and outliers all the way down. If you're an actual nobody with no marketing budget then getting your game in front of streamers might be the only way anyone other than your mom knows about your game so it's worth handing out free keys and hoping someone bites. But if you've done some marketing and god some hype, streamers can kill your sales. You don't get enough paying customers to make up for all the ones you lose now that they've seen the ending/seen asmon shit on it/decided it wasn't as good as you thought previously.
Similarly the big boys have tried all sorts of this, like Nintendo went full retard and banned all streaming globally without express written permission, Atlus placed limits on how much you could show, setting all the anti-streaming flags on the HDCP to annoy console streamers and such... and while "I've got 1000 subs, give me free keys" people think they are important, the reality was that Atlus and Nintendo said this scheme was GOOD for sales. Streamers are a net negative. Unfortunately the negative press from the wall to wall "Nintendo is teh suxx0rs" and general bad feeling was considered worse than the lost sales so they backed down. Somewhat. I believe if you're a corpo streamer nintendo will still come after you if you monetise without permission, but they don't bother going after the indies.

Streamers free ride is coming to an end, the publishers will get their cut soon.

>>719137850
what do you think an indie dev is?

>>719137671
God the way you faggots talk is insufferable
And also you have to be a drain dead moron to think Japan has more indie devs than the entire west. There's western indie slop being released every minute

>literally free advertisement
>(((indie))) devs wants to be paid for that
I wonder who are those people, because not a single reasonable person have said that

>>719136056 (OP)
Is this true in the West too?

>>719136056 (OP)
>celebrities make more than solo indie devs

WHAT THE FUCK???

>>719137721
I wonder how many would simply not stream such games if it worked like that.

>>719137052
Big studios don't press it because it's free advertising (especially for multiplayer/gaas). Indies don't do it because they don't have the reach or money to fight against these streamers.

>>719137917
is it really free advertisement if the zoomers aren't buying their game?

>>719137917
advertisement, free or paid, is useless if it doesn't translate to sales
which indie devs are implying is true or the extra sales are so few that it makes little difference

>>719137850
if you look at the credits of some of the games with devs that are complaining you will realize a lot of them are the few hacks that somehow managed to get fired from nintendo despite them having the highest employee retention rate in the entirety of japan

>>719137909
>And also you have to be a drain dead moron to think Japan has more indie devs than the entire west. There's western indie slop being released every minute
the non-porn VN industry that managed to use the switch as a lifeboat after SIE kikes glassed the vita is bigger than the entire current indie westoid market put together

Leave it to Bethesda. They are fine with being the demons. Horse armor? Paid mods? Getting a bite of a streamers pie? Sounds like their brand of money hungry.

>>719137917
>zoomie watches game
>proceeds to not buy it because he's already seen it
Excellent advertisement!

>>719137052
I've only ever understood it as free advertising and community or fan(atic) building.
I'm the kind of consumer who looks up the first 5-10 minutes of gameplay and decides a hefty No in most cases (current games suck so fucking much) but I used to be a child who bought what was ye olde let's player slop because a youtuber I liked played it and pretended it was fun.

Look at image related. It only made money thanks to streamers and children buying it who then didn't play it.

>Same reason why you cant just upload a movie to YouTube
Aren't there channels like MovieClips that just uploads the core scenes + finale to youtube? Did the big publishers ever bully google into destroying that?
It's a hollow experience to watch films like that but it genuinely does what your'e saying about watching a playthrough instead of buying the product.

>>719136056 (OP)
How about you make a game that people actually want to play?

>>719136056 (OP)
Devs, especially those who make single player story focused game should implement like a one year no stream policy.
>b-but streamers promote their game
Those streamers also hurt their sales because a lot of people don't buy the game because they've already watched those streamers played it.
Promoting your game release via streamers only makes sense for online multiplayer game.

>>719138002
>source: i made it up

>>719138062
>Bethesda
????

>>719136056 (OP)
we need to lynch people who give money to streamers

>>719138131
>i need to defend my sloptubers!

>>719137703
The big established streamers, yes, but the 99% are the nobodies with 10 viewers a night. They want some "[Namami Ichio EN] Tranqing Guards in Metal Gear Solid Delta with ma peeps! *emojis*" in the vain hope they'll win the algorithm lottery and get hundreds more people because asmon took a break and markiplier is off doing something else. Konami is getting fuck all from this transaction, it's all flowing one way.

>>719137768
Nintendo already tried that years ago, and it was such a miserable experience for everyone that they dropped it after two years.

I could see the greedy fucks at T2 doing it though if GTA Online wasn't a thing

Make actual games with substance instead of goystreamer slop to play for their goycattle. Its unreal how hard jews won maybe other races simply are just cattle to me milked for everything they got

>>719137931
No, let's plays actually make or break indies that can't achieve viral marketing through other means.
It's a part of why you and the rest of the world knew about Minecraft and Papers, Please and FNaF.

>>719138215
I don't watch video game youtubers or streamers, and I barely play video games because the industry has been in stagnation for well over a decade now.

>>719136056 (OP)
didnt nintendo have an identical meltdown over youtubers like a decade ago
is this a japan thing or an gamedev ego thing

>>719138328
why are you even here

>>719136056 (OP)
I sort of get the argument. I spend a few thousand dollars every year on games. Not a single one is AAA. The only exposure I get to AAA is via streamers. So that basically means I get to experience the game without paying the studio a dime.

>>719137703
Not really. A lot of streamers are the "skill" variety that grind multiplayer games all day. The streamer needs the game and makes a living off it but they don't give a cut to the creators. This will change.

>>719137917
It's usually technically paid advertisements because those streamers usually didn't pay for it. It's all "thank you to $DEV for the key!" because when they aren't streaming they are spamming the inboxes of everyone on itch.io begging for free keys. Steam had to update their policy because the indies were giving away hundreds and hundreds of keys and valve was getting no money. So now they limit how many keys you can give away until the sales start coming in. And the streamers, those so altruistic "free advertising" types all stood in solidarity with the indies by... not streaming games they would have to pay for.

>>719138257
The big streamers are the ones the devs are complaining about because they are making money and those are the ones that don't need games at all because their viewers aren't there for the games in the first place.

>>719137721
How/when did we get to the point where a kid playing video games live on a screen could become a millionaire? I don't pay attention to shit like that, the South Park episode where they met PewDiePie was my introduction to that world.

If you floated that idea to anyone before 2010, they'd have dismissed you as mentally ill
>Someday a kid will record himself playing video games live and millions will watch.
>Not just watch, but donate money to him.
"Is he selling something?"
>Nothing. They just send him money digitally because they like what they're seeing.
"What does he earn? Like $15?"
>Hundreds of thousands of dollars per month.
"You're a crazy person. Leave me alone."

It's absurd, to me anyway.

>>719137090
>>719137721

due to faggot crypto grifters, /v/ and twitter (same thing really) mocked NFT tech which would have enabled royalty payments like this to be a reality.

>>719138542
whats sadder is /v/ is defending the streamers

>>719137909
Weebs are fucking retarded.

>>719137917
Like saying spotify or youtube is free advertisement. Nope. If your going to make money off of other people's creation you need to give them a piece of the profit.

>>719138542
People give money for things they like even when not forced? Anti piracy fags on suicide watch.

>>719137782
>>719137860
By that logic filming yourself going on a ride in a amusement park shouldnt be allowed, because who buy tickets if you can just watch it on youtube

Just copyright strike them :^) Nothing personal. And keep in mind that outside the US, fair use is not a thing, you can pretty much strike any content creator streaming your product nearly everywhere in the World. Sure that means less advertising for your product but also means they're not making money with your creation. Even in the US, it's hard to justify Fair Use unless you add significant value while streaming a game. So you cannot just sit there and do a whole playthrough without adding significant value/commentaries/critique.

>>719138506
Considering how much they charge to advertise a game, any game company should be blessed to have a big streamer playing their product for free... I work in the industry and I directly paid agencies to have streamers promoting our games (AAA products for large publishers, mostly GaaS / MMO / Gacha crap). For a well known streamer in a specific locale (such a Germany, Italy or France), 1 hour of sponsored stream will cost you around 10K€ without VAT, the agency is obviously taking their cut + the streamer has to pay taxes etc. It's not 10K€ net in their pocket, far from it. And I'm only talking about someone with 10K~ CCV or so, which for these locale is high enough to be at the top of the Twitch directory (you don't need 50K+ CCV like in English). A massive streamer like of the calibre of /ibai could easily charge upward 100K€+ for 1 hour stream + couple posts on social medias.

As a publisher we'd constantly suck all streamers and influencers dicks to try and get featured on the most popular channels. We would fly streamers over, invite them to events with everything paid for (4 stars hotel, restaurant, flights, you name it). It's cheaper for me to fly someone for couple days for a studio tour and get them to talk about our game than pay them directly for a sponsored campaign...

>>719137917
>free advertisement
Some streamers play games on member stream, where only paid members can watch those

>>719138670
>if you can just watch it on youtube
You're going to laugh, but sometimes I watch the Simpsons ride at Universal on Youtube. I can sort of imagine how the cart moves during certain segments and it's like maybe 70% as good as actually being there.

https://youtu.be/lLjvopgPR_E?si=Pe_BUE9Y56Qi8JKF&t=153

>>719138542
>Someday, a man will earn money by trading pieces of paper
"What's on the paper?"
>Groups, Guilds, Companies, Corporations
"Physically?"
>No, just in theory
"How does he make money then?"
>Oh he buys the paper when it doesn't cost much and sells it at or before Bart spikey hair syndrome kicks in
"But... it has nothing to do with the company?"
>And then there'll be this thing called Shorting which is where you buy the paper but only pay for it after you sell it...
"You're a crazy person. Leave me alone."

There are other oddities in life, like charity. You yourself get nothing by putting money into it, it may never be spent on helping people, but someone is earning 5-6 figures, maybe 7, on managing that "Not for profit" charity.

Could you imagine if someone was paid a lot to carry a pigskin around a clean cut grass field?
Or that people pay to watch it in the flesh or via a boob tube, because they... like what they're seeing?
What about child gymnasts who compete in a rare event called the Olympics and only a few times before they're too old to make the judges hard- I mean to not have broken their bodies yet?

>>719136056 (OP)
>I want people to see and appreciate my work.
>No, not that way!
How about they get a job instead of dabbling in being an artist?

So was Nintendo right all along?

>>719138542
I would be interested to know what a normal revenue split (corporate ads/etc VS viewer donations&subscriptions) for the various sizes (~50k viewer stream / ~5k viewer stream / ~50 viewer stream) of streamers is.

>>719136056 (OP)
I mean... he's not wrong that content """creators""" are leeches

>>719138543
>muh NFTs would've cured cancer!
Sure they would, grifter.

Anyway, this argument makes perfect sense in Japan because you need express permission from the creator of a game to stream it. Nintendo could straight up say "you're not allowed to stream Super Mario 64 anymore", and all Japanese speedrunners would be forced to quit the game overnight.

>>719136056 (OP)
I mean is your game that good if watching it provides a similar enough experience to justify not playing it yourself?

>>719139278
>normal revenue split
I should clarify that I meant income split as in "what % of money made on a 5k viewer stream is from corporate ads versus viewer donations/subscriptions/bits/etc"

>>719139157
>Could you imagine if someone was paid a lot to carry a pigskin around a clean cut grass field?
Hey, that's absurd to me too. The whole celebrity thing is hard for me to wrap my head around.

Nice justification for why you sent a streamer your mom's money though. Show it to your English teacher for some extra credit.

>>719139214
unfortunately in current year, yeah.

>>719139473
>Nice justification
I didn't justify anything except the olympics one, which is a justification for ending it.

TOTAL
STREAMER
DEATH

>>719137917
it's the typical redditards that whine about exposure

>>719138215
>i need to defend my quirky depression rpgs!

>>719138163
>Those streamers also hurt their sales because a lot of people don't buy the game because they've already watched those streamers played it.
Is there any real proof of this? This is like people who say spoilers ruin books or movies when all research shows the opposite (and if it did, it's usually because it's something that's hated or made fun of).

>>719136056 (OP)
Anybody can be a game dev code monkey not just anybody can be loud and annoying in an entertaining way.

>>719136056 (OP)
Make better games you fags. No i'm not interested in your streambaits or yet another metroidvania clone or card battler make something unique and new.

>>719139672
Spoilers do ruin them. I don't even like out of order story telling where they show the ending first and then explain how they got there. It sucks. A lot.

>>719137671
YWNBJ though

>>719138586

No one is defending them, we're just pointing out that all your reasons for crying about their existence are fucking stupid.

>>719139157
I'm pretty sure the victorian era nigga could understand child gymnastics just fine, considering they had gymnastics back then.

>>719139831
to this day i still dont get how goyim and troons consider that a hurtful insult

>>719139672
Like piracy's harm on media, it can be hard to quantify because someone's exposure to a media does not mean they would have ever bought it if they were never exposed to it outherwise.

>>719139401
It's not even that they're "forced", but japanese tend to be respectful of a corporation's wishes in general.
It's only been relatively recent that the west has been putting out guidelines about fanart, but the japs have had that for a long time. When a company says they don't want their game to be porn'd up, 90% of artists stop doing porn, single-image and thinbook alike.

>>719139773
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/spoiler-alert-spoilers-make-you-enjoy-stories-more

All research shows the opposite. Games in fact are the most likely to benefit since you can't real "spoil" the act of gameplay. Watching people play Mario 64 is fundamentally different from playing Mario 64, and streaming can't give you that effect.

>>719139954
>research shows
>experts say
>studies suggest

>>719138390
It will not. If anything they should be paying the streamer.

>>719137721
They could do it but then nobody would stream their game and when you DMCA a streamer who does not comply, you earn a bad reputation

I hate game developers even more than I hate streamers.

>>719140071
This. I especially hate indie devs more

>>719139870
You are "goyim" too though.
Unless...

Not defend streamers but most of these indie games aren't worth playing let alone buying in the first place. The streamer is the reason these people are watching the video not the game. It is sad however that a big streamer probably makes more money then 99% of indie devs but you can't stop fools from giving their money to streamers.

>>719138328
And for some reason you STILL wont play Kingsfield
I cant help you if you wont help yourself

>>719140159
also i play FIFA all day

>>719140048
>>719138390
This is how we ended up with publisher run eSports circuts

If you made a game that can be watched instead of played, and you lose nothing of the experience, you didn't make a game.

>>719136213
That's a culture and values issue

>>719140190
no i hate kikes too, i just agree with them that the average westoid is goycattle
i simply disagree with the notion jews have to rule over it all

>>719136329
It's called doujin games and it's huge.

>>719139954
>research
>one shit study with awful stories that rated below a 7/10 at best, with a pool of less than 1000 people, the vast majority of which were female
>entire paper is 2 pages long and has the flimsiest of controls imaginable, and all but ONE of the stories was well within standard deviation (i.e. there was zero difference in rating between both groups)
This is the kind of paper people point to when they say that psychology is a fucking joke, and you're still quoting it, 14 years later.

>>719140237
as opposed to the other mega corps? ok....

>>719140048
It will. Streamers have no legal ground to stand on.

>porn slop
>horror slop
>open world crafting slop
>rpgmaker slop
>paying for any of this garbage
Nah I'm good. I'll just watch vtubers play them and be done with it.

>>719140279
Culture and values in America are rooted in Christian protestantism. I can see that putting a stop to career streaming pretty quickly.

I wouldn't hate indie dev if they're focused on the game part more rather than being pretentious, preachy, and obsessed with "teh massage!!"

>>719136378
But that's wrong. The stadium owners make a shit ton of money.

>>719136056 (OP)
Isnt this more of a slam on the indie devs, think about it.

>I would rather watch some talent less fucking hack asshole play your shitty game and make fun of it then ever play your trash game.

>>719140476
They will just stream something else. Streamers don't need legal ground to stream those games because they don't need those games at all.

>big name actors earn more from making movies than the important backstage crew
wtf??

>>719140503
At least friendslop actually makes them interesting to watch now. Too much yapping in normal streams

>>719140529
>teh message
Anymore it's mostly just a showcase of their favorite hentai tags.

>>719136056 (OP)
Do it, devs should at minimum get 50% of the revenue, no make that 70% they're actually the ones making things, not the glorified neets leeching of their work and society

>>719140642
>devs
You mean publishers

Whores literally paid more than skilled engineers, programmers, artist etc.

simps are pathetic. they give away money to the worst most manipulative people

>>719138542
It's entertainment plain and simple. A live performer who sometimes interacts with their audience. It is either a show of personality or skill.

>>719140668
Well yeah, but even the publishers did more than streamers at least publishers put down the money for it

>>719136056 (OP)
It doesn't work that way. You pay this man money and he get his sluts to shill your product.

>>719139278
I shoulda just asked AI the first time.
>
Looks like it's about a 60/40 split between corporate and viewer money.

>>719136056 (OP)
It's amazing how quickly /v/chuds flip flop on the shit they cry about as long as it attacks their biggest jealousy targets. One second it's "LE YOU'LL OWN NOTHING" meme crying about lack of ownership, shilling SKG, etc etc then it's "Actually yes because I dislike streamers your game purchases should actually not be your property and the devs should get paid if someone watches you play it"

>>719140751
And yet they still almost died from Nintendo's DMCAs

Just tried my first stream!
Got one indian viewer asking for my discord
I didn't know it was so easy to stream shit

>>719136056 (OP)
>pay me to advertise my game
what the fuck

>>719136056 (OP)
Isn't it usually the opposite? People who might buy and play a game will be interested after seeing a streamer shill it. People who REALLY want to buy and play a game will actively avoid streams to block spoilers. People who would never buy a game don't matter. People who might have played a game but don't after watching a streamer play it probably didn't like what they saw which in that case the game studio/publisher failed to trick that customer into buying a shitty game.

Same reason why anime voice actors earn more than animators.

>>719136056 (OP)
Twitch streamers make the bulk of their money through donations, objective donations, which you legally can't touch, so the only money would be the paltry dogshit ad revenue split with Twitch itself and it's not going to be that much.
Nintendo tried the same shit and again it didn't amount to anything. If Nintendo couldn't touch the donation money, and nobody can, just give up.

If your game is pure streamerbait and doesn't have an audience outside of that I don't have a lot of sympathy for you, nip or not. Westoid horror indie devs are literal children who just want their favourite streamer to play their game and that's less embarrassing than this.

Pic unrelated. Some pussy as a treat for looking at this post, here u go anon :)

>>719140529
There's literally no reason to play/buy these kind of "games" If you're already seen it with your favorite streamer or youtuber

>>719140941
source before you get blasted

>>719137416
Nobody's talking about this aspect of it
Japanese business culture is speedrunning legal slavery
They already have a huge problem with black companies running their shit like sweatshops
Japanese business culture is not something to be emulated, it's something to be studied from far, far away.

>>719140586
I believe he means the people that actually assembled the stadium, not the handrubber that tricked the government into paying for it

>>719141012
Basedogi Maru, enjoy buddy.

Indie devs would never dream of buying ads for their game and instead cry about people playing them on fuckin Twitch.
>Japanese
Easily discarded complaint.
These niggas think it's "modding the game" to play Pokemon in a way that wasn't intended, no game code changes necessary.
These niggas think you should go to jail for emulating SNES games lmao

>>719136056 (OP)
Those developers have no leverage as long as there are competing developers vying for streamers attention with lenient policies and even sponsored streams to draw their audience's attention to their own products. Stream the game you get paid extra for or stream the game demanding payment plus tip?

>>719141112
>the word filter kicked in
top kek

>>719140505
>Culture and values in America are rooted in Christian protestantism.
*were
Modernity has reduced culture and values in the West to materialist neoliberalism. Streaming is the ultimate form of media to complement this worldview. It's trite, low effort, easy to consume, overabundant slop that gives just enough stimulation to keep you engaged but keeps you lethargic enough to avoid doing anything productive. It's amazing how easy it is to waste hours upon hours watching or listening to a stream in the background and only come out of it with maybe 10 or 15 minutes worth of moments that actually matter.

>>719140880
The problem is the streamer will play through it, and the retard watching isn't watching because of the game, but because he's a retarded cockmongler for the streamer.
So watcher gets their parasocial jerkoff
Streamers gets their views
Dev gets 1 purchase no matter how many views

>>719137052
dis nigga never heard of the "holo"caust when hololive got hit with legal notices so they literally deleted every single VOD

>>719141230
Then they weren't interested in buying games in the first place.

>>719136056 (OP)
When will anybody learn that the people who watches streams are there for the streamer and not the game being played. And none of them are buying/playing games because streamers are their primary form of entertainment and they're fine with that.

>>719141230
But by your own words if retards aren't watching because of the game then the game doesn't matter and isn't providing any value to the stream, only the streamer is.

>>719136056 (OP)
>Look up article
>The 'game' is yet another japanese train game where the gimmic is the destination signboard changing
>Most of his other posts are him complaining about clock app spam on the eShop

He's just salty that his game's a slow seller for kids

>>719141357
This. I'm watching the big boob anime girl with the soft voice, I'm not gonna play Cozy Afternoon Teatime Adventures or whatever the hell. I was never the customer for your game.

>>719136056 (OP)
What a dumb position, streamers reach more people since watching is free.

>>719141230
Why did the dev make a game that was so shit that you could sufficiently experience it by watching someone else play it?

>>719136056 (OP)
>Buy car
>forced to pay Ford every time I use my dash cam
hmmmm
nope

too bad asshole, people watch streamers for their content, your content is your game.

>>719141357
One of the most common streamer complaints is that they're stuck streaming a game they've grown to hate but they can't switch because when they do their audience and income plummets.

Not everyone is a titty streamer that can stream literally anything, A LOT of streamers are completely reliant on a specific piece of media and they don't share a dime with the creators.

>Make a game
>Interactive medium
>Watching someone else play it is sufficient to experience it
You didn't make a game

>>719136329
They are a thing and it's more that bigger companies choose to ignore them because killing the entire indie scene would be extremely bad image-wise for their companies. It would also result in a mass exodus of their AA market to China which their government is actively trying to prevent.

Doujin games are outright allowed to put extremely popular characters into sex games and sell them at booths with their creators at Comiket and nothing happens to them because of selective enforcement.

>>719141201
This is a dumb post but I can't be bothered to explain why

>>719141575
Not just a piece of media but also a genre of media.
A streamer I watch was trapped in Soulslike hell long after they quit caring about Souls games and found all of them boring rollslop. Doesn't matter, the monkey gets paid to dance for nickels and if monkey stops dancing, monkey makes no nickels.

>>719141201
To the extent there's any culture to speak of, that's still the tradition it's based upon. The fact that tradition has become taboo and "outdated" is attributable to Marxism, and it's not going to get any better until America learns to reject the Marxisms they've been taught since youth. Until then conversations will become more hollow and parasocial behavior even more normalized.

>>719141646
I mean it's the same deal in the western market.
The difference is that the "doujin" market in the west was limited to Nintendo fangames and Marvel character comms with their tits out, both of which got enforced heavily, and everyone else doesn't care because being a derivative loser fuck who has to steal other people's characters to sell their shit work is generally seen as a negative thing due to the western value of "originality". Only Funko-pop/Amiibo-brained retards thought otherwise.

>>719136329
You think Touhou isn't an indie game?

>>719141575
That's true but it's usually for multiplayer games which definitely help the devs by streaming their game unless they are very negative about it.

>>719140804
It was Capcom's actually

Post those jap indie games if they're so great.

>>719140305
>>719137671
>at this point the JP indie market is exponentially bigger than the westoid one
Not even remotely close.
It's still huge but ironically it's being strangled by console companies, not bigger video game companies, because the entry bar for putting your games on console has risen since the PS4 era. Strangling the indie game scene as it sanitizes itself.

> mainly JP indie devs tend to loathe goyjin
Wrong again, They would love goyjin money if they were allowed to fucking sell it. They loved it during the PSP era and it's what kept many small companies afloat that had no future like Compile Heart post losing Puyo.

Meanwhile, the west:

>>719141919
Elin 2, One Way Heroics, and uhhh....

>>719136213
Correct.

Kinda funny they just proposed the same idea that Nintendo got flack for doing years ago. I think it was called their creator program? Streamers might be getting screwed at least on the ad revenue portion. Twitch implemented a view botting ban and viewership across the board dropped by 24% compared to last week.

>>719136213
Fippy Bippy, having a twitch account should be a capital offense

>>719141843
>I mean it's the same deal in the western market.
It is but it's no where near as lenient as it is in Japan. If you go to a certain building at a certain time of day during a certain year, pretty much all copyright violations are ignored. Everyone has a gentlemen's agreement on it. Not even the largest Japanese companies dare violate it.

Meanwhile put Mario in a free Garry's Mod map over here and Nintendo is trying to nuke your house from orbit.

>>719141938
>the entry bar for putting your games on console has risen since the PS4 era
How do you figure? On my Internet, there's nothing on the PS Store but indie shovelware for miles, much of which looks distinctly oriental.

>>719141575
How is this an argument? It makes no sense.
It's like saying A LOT of streamers are completely reliant on supermarkets for food and they don't share a dime with the farmers or truck drivers.

>>719141690
>t. streamer brainrotted retard
>>719141737
>The fact that tradition has become taboo and "outdated" is attributable to Marxism
This process has been in progress before Marx and is rooted in the Enlightenment.

>>719142017
Some do, see Tatsunoko/Gridman and Disney, though that gentleman's aggreement goes both ways, and artists usually don't make stuff if the IP owner doesn't want it existing.

>>719136056 (OP)
How bout devs start by making a game that's worth buying and playing ?
People watch e-celebs play those games because they aren't worth a cent

>>719141919
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMzV286K3HU

>>719141938
>the entry bar for putting your games on console has risen since the PS4 era
Nigga how? If anything it's gotten LOWER

Someone even compared it before. Back on the wiiu days a game like binding of Issac would be rejected (it actually did happen) nowadays you can literally buy it right now. Not to mention all the generic ai asset flips

>>719142070
>How do you figure?
If you don't remember PS4, Nintendo Virtual Arcade, or Steam during the PSP era then the difference is night and day. Digital games didn't need to abide by the rules of payment processors and were only subject to the quality control of the platforms they were sold on, most of them weren't even rated by the ESRB. You could buy Vita games that were rated CERO Z straight from the PS Store they were outright tiddy games.

>there's nothing on the PS Store but indie shovelware for miles, much of which looks distinctly oriental.
You say "indie shovelware" I say "That golden era where the big Indie devs in Japan were able to sell whatever they wanted to whoever". I rather have the Steam Greenlight era back than having to justify what games I want to buy to Paypal.

>>719141974
I wish they did that
Twitch without nintardo games would be so much better

>>719142191
holy fuck my ears how do people listen to this shit

>>719140202
the fuck is a kingsfield

>>719142193
>Nigga how? If anything it's gotten LOWER
There's literally a thread on the front page about how if your platform sells a game that Visa/Mastercard/super gigga nigga banks don't approve of, your entire platform loses its ability to use money in general.

Meanwhile in the PS4 era you could buy Cero Z games straight from the store, no questions asked. You could buy games like pic related with zero ID required and nobody said shit about it, Sony was actually happy you bought it on their platform. A game featuring mostly a cast of high schoolers in a fighting game would get insta-cancelled today.

>>719142316
and I mean explicitly high schoolers, and half of the cast were in bikinis or had outfits like that picture.
Guess who cared? no one. That's the power of indie games and why strangling it was also strangling themselves.

>>719136056 (OP)
The vast majority of streamers are not making more money than game devs

Japanese boomer devs needs to understand that a streamer IS the appeal. The people who watch them would have never bought your game either way.

It's like complaining about pirates with the lost sales fallacy. The vast majority of pirates pirate BECAUSE THEY CAN. And forcing them to buy a game is literally never gonna happen.

Your game will be niche will be niche. It will ALWAYS be niche. It's the risk of being an indie dev unless you somehow hit big and that's okay as long as you have a audience that will buy it even if it's small

>>719136056 (OP)
>FUCK STREAMERS
This, but unironically

>streamers
usually based
>devs
usually liberals and troons and vegan

>>719142201
If your game isn't age rated then it shouldn't be sold on a platform that children use.

>>719141919
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo91lG9r_Sw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30wWC_Y8Tsk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkMXVyZABJw
I doubt any of these are actually coming out but I still hold out some hope they will.

>>719142628
> streamers
> based
only because its profitable not to be now

>>719142695
>Varvarion
Stop reminding me this shit exists, much like MMXC I'll never get to play it.

>>719141112
What the fuck is CandFans

I stand with Japanese devs.

>>719142462
Also streamers are indie devs best chance of making it if they care that much about their game being a breakout success like amogus, fall guys

>>719142462
It's not a lost sales fallacy, it's a "I'm going broke despite my game being a smash success" type of problem. The success and popularity is not being capitalized into profit.

>>719136056 (OP)

i dont understand can someone make a food analogy please

>>719136329
It's only if nintendo, God of Japan, targets you.

>>719142695
I meant because its is profitable to be now

>>719137052
>>719137146
Nintendo did this in the mid 2010s, and it was a disaster. During the Wii U era, it made it so it was essentially impossible for there to be Nintendo youtubers and streamers. There was every incentive to shit on Nintendo for social media creators, and no incentive for people to glaze them.

>>719136056 (OP)
simp economy

>>719142795
>make and prepare food
>guy who eats it gets paid to eat it more than you who prepared it

What games should I play to jumpstart my streaming career, /v/?

>>719136431
And?

If it were up to me, every japanese dev will be USD millionaires

>>719142857
FOTM and a good editor.

>>719141690
You're a retarded nigger but i can't be bothered to explain why

>>719142628
>grifting eceleb
>based
lmao

>>719142793
If you're an indie dev it shouldn't take you going broke to make a game, you most likely have a job. Unless you're like cuphead devs and mortgaged your own house because you kept running out of money

>>719142857
Your VODS don't even have to be that good, people can listen to the most braindead retard streamer live but you need a hook like making meme edit videos on Youtube.

>>719142878
But I don't have friends to play friendslop.

>>719141646
>bigger companies choose to ignore them because killing the entire indie scene would be extremely bad image-wise for their companies.
Nintendo going all out against Palworld

>>719142857
Friendslop is the current trend

>>719136056 (OP)
thats because streamers are paid fake money from a bubble. twitch has never once been profitable
gamedevs earn real money from paying customers

>>719142950
Go to the streaming site of your choosing and look at the trending.

>>719137146
Not quite the same thing. Nintendo shut down some of the Melee players who were playing on emulators in a paid tournament, and demanded that some speedrunners apply properly rather than giving them a blanket OK.

.

>>719137860
There's a reason why publishers give streamers thousands of dollars to play their game.
The only ones complaining about it are indie devs making meme games that just entertaining on a stream but that no ones actually wants to play.

>>719142793
Not that anon.

I get the frustration from the devs, but this happens in all media. Highly regarded content just flops all the time for no reason. Talented artists, musicians, actors, etc often end up working 9-5's because they just couldn't make ends meet. It sucks but it's the way of entertainment.

It's developer entitlement that they think releasing their dream game should automatically set them up to coast to their next release.

>>719136056 (OP)
I've always found it funny how streaming music, shows, and movies is a bad thing but streaming games is perfectly okay. Music in the game that plays in the background for 5 seconds would get you in more trounle than streaming the game for 50 hours.

>>719142967
Twitch has made more millionaires than the average working class per capita. It's a luxury hit or miss job like being a talk show host.

>>719138860
>We would fly streamers over, invite them to events with everything paid for (4 stars hotel, restaurant, flights, you name it). It's cheaper for me to fly someone for couple days for a studio tour and get them to talk about our game than pay them directly for a sponsored campaign...
Funny, this is the same shit they used to do for games journalists back in the day, since, before streams it was gaming magazines that influenced the buying public.

>>719142996
You can have a gorillion ways to play a game, there's only one way to listen to music or watch stuff.

>>719142989
It is a problem but it can be stymied. Streamers, when they make a certain threshold on your vidya, should pay a cut to the devs if they so choose.

>>719142996
That's because the music industry is ran by the most Jewish people around. Those motherfuckers don't play around, they sue you for having like 3 seconds of an unauthorized clip of a track playing in the background

>>719143025
If you were a streamer I'd make you the next Zoe Quinn, Anon.

>>719142857
Are you good at popular competitive multiplayer games? Otherwise play new games that are popular like silksong when it comes out. Your goal should be to get a collab with a big streamer as that's the fastest way to success.

>>719136056 (OP)
I don't think it's specifically the game that makes the streamer money. They can literally do anything and still make money...

>>719142923
Ok, it's a "I'm still broke despite my game being a smash hit" type of problem. It's a "I went the extra mile for an audience that hates me" type of problem.

>>719143089
No
I didn't like the OG HK
Can't I just play what I find fun?

The west got friendslop
The japs got VNslop and horrorslop

>>719143106
How you expect devs to make profit anon? How many games make a smash succes to the point of being rich. Not many people. Most people will never make that kind of money even if the game is good.

Even in a hypothetical scenario like if you're a streamer and have to pay 2/4th payout to the actual dev of the game if you're a popular streamer it still won't be enough

>>719142857
I tried to go vtubing but that shit is also expensive to get started plus my voice sounds fucking retarded. I'm doomed to stay in my wagie job playing vidya.
https://vocaroo.com/1vlkXhSrPGq4

>>719142837
Also
>doesn't say what restrant it is outside of maybe pointing the camera at a sign for a couple seconds

>>719136329
indie devs were a thing in japan before anywhere else in the west.

>>719143310
The PC boom did not happen for Japan until the 2010s.

>>719136056 (OP)
Female browsers, contact me on Discord. Tag: j1bunw00

more so if you enjoy videogames, anime, and all artistiic and creatiive—whether it's loIi, Pokemon, Fate, Dragon Quest, Limbus Company, Bravely Default, Fire Emblem, /m/ series, Kemono, SMT, Mega Man, Monogatari, RWBY, Digimon, Disgaea or series like , Sonic, 3D SFM, Castlevania, Touhou,and more.Danganronpa, Monster Hunter, Final Fantasy, and more

>>719143332
>what are Japanese pcs

Why can't /v/ just make their own streaming group?

>>719143364
It was just all VNs and porn

>>719143343
I wonder if anyone actually fell for this

>>719143129
I mean you can play what you want and maybe that's a good thing since you might be more entertaining by not forcing yourself to play what's popular. However success will be slower or even less likely to happen at all. None of this matters though if you aren't entertaining or a nepo streamer since I assume you aren't a hot girl.

>>719141938
>Wrong again, They would love goyjin money if they were allowed to fucking sell it.
Half of the indie non-porn JP devs I follow on twitter explicitly refuse to localize their indie games out of gaijin hatred.

>>719143385
Touhou literally got started as a pc98 series, not to mention a plethora of others

>>719142857
Get an editor that's willing to get paid in scraps but is talented and make /v/ jokes. It's how Sseth did it.

>>719143385
Not all of it. The very few non-vn jap pc developers quit mid-2000's and switched to consoles because of lack of sales.

>>719136056 (OP)
Every single nippon game has shit code, so I think they're actually making too much money

>>719142857
You needed to worm your way through the friend circles of popular streamers years ago to be successful. Probably not too late to do that but it's that or win the algorithm lottery and hope that momentum pushes you far enough to build a core fanbase. Also you still have to be entertaining. If you're a funny fat tub of lard, then stay fat because chances are you're only funny because you're fat and a punching bag.

>>719143464
shit code can be excused if the game is somewhat good.

>>719143464
Jeet code is worse and sells more

>>719143264
It sounds fine, you probably hear it deeper/graver in your head like everyone else.
You can also PNGtube to start

>>719143429
Most of the time it's only because they can't be assed to get it translated. It's the same with Koreans and Chinese wanting to play JP games.

>>719136056 (OP)
Nice idea for new business model

>>719143429
No they don't. You're a retarded culture warrior that doesn't even play these games, much less speak Japanese.

>>719143534
I think I'm gonna start a playthrough of Dark Souls and see where that leads to. It's a popular /v/ game so I hope you fags watch it too.

>>719143429
Most indie dev japs I seen are alright with foreigners, even if they don't understand understand Japanese and just played it because it looked cool

>>719143264
As a mouthbreathing neanderathal who also wants to get into vtubing, your voice sounds fine. Good even, compared to some of the vtubers I've seen out there. Just take some time to practice and get outta your own head.

As for cost, take some time and learn how to rig live2D. It's not too hard, would save you a ton from the start, and would get your foot in the door with some connections way down the line. Other stuff like iPhones and graphics cards will always be around, and if you do make it big, you can just redebut with a proper 2.0 later.

>>719143654
Do PS3 Demons Souls

>>719143751
I don't have a PS3

>>719143264
Don't they have a board for you vtubers? Getting caught up in how you sound is silly when you should be concerned about if you are actually enjoyable to watch. Most vtubers aren't very good entertainers and instead rely on voice/model so if you are then you have a good leg up on them.

>>719137052
People are only mentioning nintendo but atlus, the team that made danganronpa and the retard behind steins;gate did this as well.

>>719137860
More often than not it's due to the games simply not being good enough to make people buy them despite watching hours of it's gameplay

>>719144036
/vt/ is literally filled with stalkers and doxxers, fuck that noise. I'd rather just be on /v/.

>>719136056 (OP)
So just stop making video games and just become streamers then? Dumb fucking nips.

>>719143579
Why would anyone pay to stream a game they already paid to own?
The result is obvious, people would rather not stream your game over games that do not charge you twice.

>>719136056 (OP)
Devs wanna get paid what they're worth? Maybe sort out the asinine wage disparity between the regular employees and the fucking executives then.

>>719144198
If you want to make lots of money out of the thing I made, I want a cut.

>>719136056 (OP)
I mean, yeah
>literally any other industry
>have to purchase a license to make money off somebody else's work
>streamers
>just yoink whatever you want, except for music/movies/shows because those are the companies that will sue you to the ground
Let publishers decide of course, but I wouldn't fault a game company for restricting streaming their games.
Reaction slop is a way way worse case of this, and given that most of it happens on youtube and that youtube has a relatively good system in place to detect copyrighted material already, I don't know why there aren't more youtubers pushing for youtube to implement a revenue sharing system for reaction leeches.

>streamers vs devs disparity on product revenue
>but muh execs

>>719136056 (OP)
NOOOOOOO STOP ADVERSTING MY GAME FOR FREEEEEEE REEEEEEEEE PAY MEEEEEE!!!

>>719144368
There is a strong pro-streamer lobby group that hinders that from happening.

>>719144403
For it to work it should only be limited to livestreams and a certain revenue threshold

>>719136329
What the actual fuck are you talking about.

>>719136056 (OP)

>Get free advertising for your game

OY VEY! PAY ME MY SHEKELS GAIJIN!

>>719144036
After the hack everyone of any worth left /vt/ anon, that place is worse than /v/ now

>>719144557
Ah that's why that board seems to be slower then I remember it being.

>>719144403
>for free
It's only free if the streamer actually likes/wanted to get the game. Most of the time streamers don't even buy this shit, the companies give them keys, not just for themselves to play it, but to give away to people watching them too.

>>719136056 (OP)
Blame Nintendo. They started this.

Streaming was more fun when it was a side hobby for people. I remember coming home from work in 2011 and streaming on justin tv to 30 people and it was a blast. Monetization fucked the internet, you don't need to get paid for doing anything aside from real work.

This is a honestly fair ask because with how it stands, less people are incentivised to make games and be creative and more people are incentivised to be lazy slobs playing games for money and lacking in any creativity whatsoever.

Wealth disparity has destroyed many industries already, no reason to assume it wont do it for games, you could even argue it already has, since all the good dev talent has left or retired and the only people making games now are either incompetent cogs in a machine or some autistic indie dev whos ideas dont match the reality of their talent.

>>719144787
Blame capitalism paired with the gig economy mindset.

>>719138408
Streamers and youtubers actually do openly complain if a publisher doesnt give them a key for a game when they make money from patreon and twitch donos, its disgusting to hear.
They really are leeches.

>>719140596
actors wouldn't get paid what they do if the studio didn't believe they'd make more money back from ticket sales and/or streaming it.

>>719144332
That's fair in theory, but streaming isn't exactly the same as reselling your product. If someone streams your game and brings in thousands of viewers, that can directly translate to sales you wouldn't have gotten otherwise. It's not like they're stealing your code or assets and selling them-it's performance around your work, not of your work. If you start charging streamers like they're running a commercial enterprise with your game as the product, they're just gonna move to games that don’t require paying a toll booth.

>>719136056 (OP)
based
make them pay royalties on non-transformative single-player content

>>719138860
Literally no major streamer would even touch a game they arent being paid to stream. And if they do they do it in the hopes the devs pay them.

>>719145118
i'm gonna be honest, do we have actual proof that people streaming a game allows it to sell so much more? I can't recall the last time I watched someone play a game I wasn't initially interested in, then bought it myself. Expedition 33 had tons of people streaming it on launch, but we can't prove that lead to more profits. It's underestimated the amount of lazy faggots who watch people play games instead of actually experiencing it for themselves nowadays.

>>719145118
Counter argument : it also translates to lost sales from people that would have saved to buy your game to see what it's about, but are no longer going to because they just opted for the cheaper option of watching someone play the game rather than play it themselves.

>>719136056 (OP)
To be fair this seems reasonable, i.e. if you want to stream a game then you need a license from the dev / publisher to do so, that's just like how it works for most things?

>>719145226
Clips from the streamer is marketing
The retards actually watching the stream were never the target audience

>>719145203
>royalties
no, just all income, period
this parasitic shit won't end until it becomes wholly unprofitable to do so, and the only way you do that is to completely remove their ability to make even a single cent off it

>>719145226
>It's underestimated the amount of lazy faggots who watch people play games instead of actually experiencing it for themselves nowadays.
and you underestimate the people that buy and say they're going to play and then it sits unplayed in their library forever
there's a lot of those freaks that buy games and never play them

>>719136056 (OP)
If the devs are so butthurt... then why don't they just become Streamers?

>>719136056 (OP)
Now that used games have been killed with digital distribution they can no longer cry about forced revenue sharing with Gamestop so they found a new victim to launch a campaign against moaning for proceeds they never earned. Asians believe in communism in some manner always. Just make a better product, bro. Try getting good at capitalism, bro.

>>719145313
For multiplayer games streaming as free marketing absolutely works. For single player games? fuck no. Especially ones that hinge on you experiencing shit for the first time, there's so many games i'll never play because I watched someone else do it.

>>719145226
>do we have actual proof that people streaming a game allows it to sell so much more?
This had been out for two whole years before receiving a huge boost in sales thanks to streamers during the Covid era.

>>719145454
i'll give you multiplayer games, but this doesn't translate to single player ones.

>>719137721
They probably can't because streaming would be a derivative of the original work. For example Sega would have no chance of being able to directly make money off of streamers playing Sonic 06 because it is an inherently broken game. Nobody is watching these streams to experience the game directly, they are watching the streams to experience the reactions to Sonic 06's brokenness.

Sega wouldn't be able to argue Sonic 06 was made intentional to get this final result since that would be them admitting they purposefully sold a ""defective"" product to the masses. Both customers and retailers who order those games could sue Sega for that.

Obviously not every game is as shitty as Sonic 06. But that's the Pandoras box they will open if they go down this route. Think about what would happen if CDPRJKTRED had tried that stunt with Cyberpunk 2077 when it first came out? Better yet what if the No Man's Sky devs attempted this?

Truth be told indie devs shouldn't get too greedy here. These Streamers are already giving them free advertising for their games. I'm not sure they are ready for legal labyrinth of rules they would need to adhere to in order to get residuals from Streamers. That would mean guaranteeing anyone who streams their game is getting a complete product that functions as intended. If it goes off rails at any point they become potentially liable.

>>719145378
>make game
>stream game themselves
>infinite money glitch

>>719137958
>Big studios don't press it because it's free advertising (especially for multiplayer/gaas)
My brother, it's not free AT ALL.
Devs pay big streamers to play their game. The values can be absurd, like $10k+ per long session to each streamer. Even indies do this, so dev in OP is either out of the loop or just stupid.

>>719145621
>a derivative of the original work
If I stream myself watching Twilight and make fun of the movie the whole time, I still get copyright struck, retard.

The issue is that trying to get money out of streamers makes them extremely unlikely to play your game, and streamers are a form of advertising. It's so bad that most new releases pay half the streamers on Twitch to play their slop for an hour or two, at sliding rates based on viewcount.

Nothing is stopping you from taking down all footage of your game online, it'll just take forever or cost a lot of money to have someone send DMCA requests for you.

The only way you could really do something like this is if you make a game that is wildly popular, and THEN tell people they can't stream it anymore without giving you a cut. But then all the influencers will just cry about how unfair you are and your sales numbers will drop like a rock as their child audience review bombs you.

>>719145494
It's trickier but it does happen with single player games. Hilarious as it is, your example fits right here too. I had written off E33 as another souless western cash grab until I saw someone play from the opening to when you first get to the overworld.

>>719145494
The biggest singleplayer success that comes to mind off the back of someone reviewing it has been Starsector, which received way more attention and gained a large community following Sseth's video on it.
In general with a lot of indies and some bigger games i've watched the first 30 minutes or so of a streamer/youtuber, decided the game looked good and bought it.
Subnautica is a personal example of mine where I only bought the game specifically because I watched someone play some of it first and got interested. I also know that game was streamed/played by youtubers a shit ton but don't know if it translated to more success.

streaming was a mistake

>>719146451
Streamers are just the new e-beggars, only that 1% of them actually earned money.

>>719145858
>If I stream myself watching Twilight and make fun of the movie the whole time, I still get copyright struck, retard.

You have poor reading comprehension anon. Nowhere in said post was copyright strikes mentioned. The entire point of the post was highlighting that demanding residuals means getting into a legal "labyrinth" that could easily backfire because what makes a game good for streaming isn't always aligned with a developer's intent for the game itself.

>>719146660
This is a meaningless fucking point, because the game itself is copyrighted material. There is no argument for fair use when you are showing a game in its entirety, when 5 second clips would work just as well.

I don't know why you're trying to claim "intent". The streamer wants to play the game on stream, it doesn't matter if that's because they think it's fun, or if they want to laugh at it. That doesn't factor into the equation at all, if I say you can't stream my game without giving me 20% of any money you make during it, it doesn't matter if you're pausing every 5 seconds to make a joke or sitting there in total silence.

>>719142953
japs worship nintendo, they can do whatever they want

>>719136056 (OP)
but they are worth fuck all ? even trying to get a simple port of their games is like pulling fucking teeth.

>>719136056 (OP)
Yet another thing that I'll never give a shit about.

>>719136056 (OP)
>indie devs
Lets see how much money they make when streamers stop playing their games

>>719136056 (OP)
it's weird companies pay shitty e-beggars instead of the other way around.
They should have to pay a fee to be allowed to stream someones game.

>>719137280
those aren't japanese, bro...
just because a troon puts japanese text in the game doesn't make him japanese

today i realized that social media has died
it's no longer a place for nerds to discuss interests and hang out
it used to be that one or two sites die, but now it's all dead as a whole
even things like twitch and youtube are barely different from TV in that regard
money ruined yet another thing, i guess atleast it didn't happen over night

>>719138215
he has a point, actually

there are many """games""" with dogshit """gameplay""" where you literally lose nothing by watching someone play them for you, like those horror slop games from Chilla's Arts, it's like they're screaming to be watched on Youtube

>>719140247
>seeing this while im my wage cage

demoralizing

>>719136056 (OP)
>japanese dev requires revenue share
>nobody plays their game
>people never find the game and it sells fuck all
Great plan

>>719136056 (OP)
based and truth
20% should be going to devs when a streamer plays their game

>>719147462
>today i realized that social media has died
>it's no longer a place for nerds to discuss interests and hang out
it never was, fucking idiot. unless you somehow group old forums and communities under social media for some retarded reason

>>719146994
>This is a meaningless fucking point, because the game itself is copyrighted material. There is no argument for fair use when you are showing a game in its entirety, when 5 second clips would work just as well.

This isn't about fair use, you keep getting hung up on the copyright aspect. This is about demanding residuals which is a completely different beast altogether. Demanding residuals means creating a formal agreement that is legally binding and requires certain criteria to be "satisfied".

>if I say you can't stream my game without giving me 20% of any money you make during it, it doesn't matter if you're pausing every 5 seconds to make a joke or sitting there in total silence.

This response right here is why indie devs are going to get folded. You demanding 20% of revenue first requires you to satisfy that the game you sold to me fits within an acceptable legal framework. For instance can you guarantee streamers who stream your game will be playing a game with no level of serious bugs that could interrupt their schedule? Or how about require no patches that would make it unplayable to completion? Are you prepared for your 20% residuals to be rendered invalid if that happens?

After all you can't demand someone pay residuals for a defective product you sent out to be sold under the guise it being "playable to completion" or "playable without bugs". Now you're stepping into potential fraud territory.

>>719137758
That's only for corporate streamers, not individuals

>>719137779
Soke are just streamer games. Whole Chilla's Art catalog, Puppet Combo, Needy Streamer, and so on. These games are only worth watching someone else play. Other games might make the viewer want to actually play the game. I know o picked up Ganryu 2 due to a stream, and played other games like Jewel Master as well. If the game looks fun to play people will be inclined to play it.

Streamer slop never looks fun to play.

There shouldn't be takedowns, but instead a revenue split. Just like with music.

>>719147541
you'll realize it eventually too

>>719147638
realize what? twitch and all social media were slop for normalfags since conception just like everything made on the internet since 2006

>>719137052
>a whole playthrough for an entire game? Yeah. No need to buy a game if you've already watched it all.
Plenty of Japanese games have segments in their TOS forbidding streaming past a certain point in the story.

>>719136605
this
/thread

>>719136329
What the fuck are you even talking about?

>>719147685
social media existed way before 2006, that's the point i'm making
it used to be good, now it's shit
it was a slow process but that process has come to an end

>>719147545
>you can't demand someone pay residuals for a defective product
If the game runs, it's not defective.

If the game crashes every 5 minutes, you have the choice of giving up, and paying me for the first 5 minutes, or continuing, and paying for however much longer you play the game. I don't know why you think there's some magical contract that insists that the game must be perfectly free of bugs or you don't owe me a dime, you are showcasing my copyrighted work to your audience, you owe me 20%.

>>719147862
social media was always gay shit for retards

forums were kino though

>>719137384
Doesn't mean jack shit if a studio decides to go full dick mode, because at the end of the day, they're the ones holding the copyright.

>>719147903
i'd agree that the target audience was always bad, but the advantage of old social media was that you could atleast use it in a way to avoid the cancer
a few years ago when they all realized that algorithms make money, you couldn't do it anymore and had things forced on you that you didn't sign up for

>>719136056 (OP)
They'll just play more american games and avoid JP stuff then, this seems like a really stupid thing for these devs to try. What do I know though.

>>719147960
If the stream falls under fair use the dev can't do shit

>>719138328
>I don't watch video game youtubers or streamers, and I barely play video games
>posted to /v/ - Video Games
And then anons wonder why this place went to shit.

>>719136056 (OP)
To be fair, the makers of indie shovelware would earn nothing at all, if streamers didn't play their crap and promote them

>>719147862
>youtube before partnerships
>twitch before sub buttons
>twitter with a 140 character limit and no algorithm
are there even any newer sites like this or is the internet simply too big for it now

>>719148101
hownew.ru

>>719136056 (OP)
Make game what is attractive to play and not attractive to watch

>>719147960
"The child not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel it's warmth."

>>719147897
Eh, sounds like it would be easier to just call you cringe, leave a bad review, and go play something else, leaving you with your dick in your hand.

>>719148074
>If
That's a pretty big "if", because that would require setting a legal precedent and that's never going to happen as long as at least one side is too cowardly to push it that far.

>>719136378
actual athletes (Olympics-tier) get jackshit actually, that's why they're forced to open Onlyfans and beg for money on the internet

unless you're lucky enough to be very good at one of the handful entertainment-oriented sports with billions in it, you're probably better off making indie games for a living

>>719148258
Well one of these indie devs aren't going to push it all the way so a streamer can just call their bluff

>>719147897
>If the game runs, it's not defective.
False, games are required to be "completable" if this wasn't the case Sony wouldn't have been able to fully ban Cyberpunk 2077 from their Playstation store. Even though Cyberpunk 2077 could ""run"" it could not be completed in the state it was in.

>. I don't know why you think there's some magical contract that insists that the game must be perfectly free of bugs or you don't owe me a dime

Because we saw CDPRJKTRED get gut punched by Sony for selling a defective product.

>>719137280
lmao dumb faggot

>>719136056 (OP)
In most cases with something like this the publisher would receive the money instead of the creatives. This is just taking buying power from regular people and giving it to corporations.

>>719148375
Why does Sony's contract with a developer have anything to do with my contract with streamers? The game is provided AS-IS, you owe me 20%. There is no expectation of a finished game, or even a beatable one.

>>719139954
>universityofcalifornia

>>719148375
Sony removed cyberpunk because they were offering refunds and sony is anti consumer not because it was broken or anything.

>>719148440
Denounce Trump pedophile supporter.

>>719136213
fpbp I hope they all die in the fires they light to kill their animals. Seriously, ecelebs also known as posers when I was growing up deserve the worst.

>>719148334
Yes, that's one part of what I meant with
>as long as at least one side is too cowardly to push it that far
AAA studios understand they'd be shooting themselves in the foot.
Indies either understand that, or are afraid they might lose, or are afraid they might not financially survive until the verdict.
Players know they would not financially survive.

>>719148421
>There is no expectation of a finished game, or even a beatable one.

>>719142953
Palworld threatened their monetization scheme. They long ago realized the money was in everything but the games and that the games were on a timer. You can only do so much with the format so they decided to drag everything out. That's why each new game adds one or two new things and will often take something away. This lets them drag out the life span of the games. They only did significant jumps when threatened or when they felt interest was slacking. Palworld is much closer to what consumers want and if they jumped forward they would be adding far to many new features to their games drastically shortening their projected IP life span. They do not want to compete with a better product in any way shape or form, they want other products to compete on their level and timeframe. That's why they did not try to destroy Palworld outright they systematically targeted features in Palworld they wanted removed to slow the game down to where they feel comfortable with.

>>719136056 (OP)
inb4 muh gameplay is transformative

>>719142857
Literally anything except Xenoblade for some reason.

>>719136056 (OP)
Oh it's a rerun of Japs fight against new thing instead of learning how to use it for their own benefit.

>>719138067
>make slop only worth watching not playing
>"wtf why no one buying???"

>>719142857
Play whatever is popular right now, and learn how to cheese the algorithm of whatever website you're using. Playing what you want to play comes only when you're already popular enough. The other option would be to focus on a niche, but that's far riskier than chasing FOTMs.

>>719148421
>Why does Sony's contract with a developer have anything to do with my contract with streamers? The game is provided AS-IS, you owe me 20%. There is no expectation of a finished game, or even a beatable one.

Because the streamer BOUGHT your game in a ecosystem where other people are present to play your game to completion. Your argument would work if you gave the Streamer your game for free to stream. Do you even understand what you're setting yourself up for if the streamer is buying the same build as non-streamers and you pull that shit? At the very least whatever store that host your game will ban it immediately, at worst you're looking at lawsuits.

>>719136619
they're not entitled even to a tiny cut, they should be happy that their game is getting any exposure instead of whining about it

>>719148887
oy vey

>>719138542
>It's absurd, to me anyway.
Wait until your find out about sports or acting.

>>719136431
Popularity dies overtime and every single one of these popular ecelebs is an idiot whom is bad with money. I'd imagine most of them will be broke and without views by the time they are pushing 50. As time passes, let's see who is right.

>>719143512
>Jeet code
No such thing. Copy/pasting code from the internet and implementing it haphazardly does not count.

>>719138543
... and opened up a whole world of scamming, anti-consumerisms, and owning nothing and being happy. gtfo grifter

>>719148887
>literal "get paid in exposure" post
Huh. Didn't know there was anyone that unironically thinks this way.

>>719145621
>AI hallucinating a vista that isn't there
kek a picture truly is worth a thousand words

>>719147989
true

social media is fucking cancer and ruined the world and you faggots are defending one of the worst thing in existence aka ecelebs
kids are now stealing their moms credit cards to donate to their favorite streamer so they can see them having fun. this is all so fucking wrong and destroys everyone's minds

>>719136056 (OP)
and i hated voice actors for being entitled

>>719149240
Okay but corporations are still the villains here.

>>719136056 (OP)
Vtubers are already super popular and replacing real celebs in Japan. It's too late for them.

>>719148604
Big streamers can easily fund the legal proceedings if they want to

>>719149303
okay and? streamers literally directly work for those corporations. who do you think owns twitch

>>719136056 (OP)
Most of the time I'm not watching because of the game but the streamie

>>719149364
So corporations enable these streamer faggots? I wonder why I said the thing I said.

>>719149404
pathetic parasocial fuck

>>719136056 (OP)
I am fully in favour of this because it hurts streamniggers

>>719149335
>real celebs
I barfed a little

>>719149335
>there's like one person on there that might be japanese

>>719149335
>suisei is under 30

>>719143264
You sound absolutely fine.
https://forum.ripper.store/topic/61721/lf-various-live2d-models-63-127/81?lang=en-US

Use this site to find L2D models you can pirate. Just start streaming, I've heard of people with even worse voices than you starting out. The important thing is to start streaming and as you talk you'll get better at talking and your voice will sound better. Good luck, hope you start and shill yourself in /vt/ in the appropriate threads and you'll get a few viewers starting out.

>>719149335
>under 30
>suisei
doubt.jpg

>>719136056 (OP)
this sounds a lot like the piracy argument and I think they underestimate how much free advertising it is
here in the west you have to pay people to play your indie shit game, most of the time

>>719141405
oh so it's one of those games where there's no gameplay other than walking and looking at the same things over and over and waiting for something to happen
I can see why he would be mad when you can get a better experience watching a supercut on youtube

>>719149685
Japs are fucking retarded and don't understand Internet culture yet. They're still 40 years behind and unironically use fax machines. Any sane indie developer would be ecstatic to have some big streamer playing their game because it always results in a surge of sales.

why are japs so retarded with IP ?

>>719140278
go back to sucking dicks on reddit

>/v/: FUCK STREAMERS I HATE CAMWHORES
>Also /v/: FUCK DEVS WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT STREAMERS

>>719136329
Bruh their laws are clearly more lax because they sell fangames, while in the west if you try to sell your TES autistic fangame you're getting your ass sued to hell.

>>719147571
>Needy Streamer
I can understand and agree with calling Chilla's Fart "streamer slop", but not this one.
The most interesting parts of this game are locked behind different endings, which your basic bitch tuber would never reach (mostly because she'd get bored replaying it).

>selective on what's deleted
MODS = FAGGOTS

>>719143461
Except doujin devs who never stopped making games.

>>719149969
That's not because of laws, that's simply the culture of letting fangames be made. The IP owners could shut them down if they so wish and there's a reason you don't see any Disney related fan made content in Japan

>>719136056 (OP)
I completely agree with this

>>719136056 (OP)
>PAY
Why are zoomers so obsessed with this?

>>719136213
I refuse to consider """people""" who watch e-celebs and even send them money as the same human beings as me. This is some fucked up collective bugman behavior where destitute masses crowdfund lavish life of one idiot making a fool of himself in front of the webcam.

streamers are entertaining, games are not

>>719149946
>fuck everybody
You're almost starting to get it.

>>719150347
FUCK YOU

>>719150270
literal cum guzzler kys

>>719136056 (OP)
>reeee give me your money!
No. You should be fucking grateful your no-name obscure indie garbage which would have sold 10 copies is getting major exposure and is boosted. But it's never enough, huh?

>>719150270
Post your broccoli hair so I can make fun of you, zoomer.

>>719150491
>I MUST defend my e-celeb!

>>719136056 (OP)
Couldn't seen this from a mile away.
>Lock in the games to pay devs, sacrifice privacy, heavy copyright enforcement?
>Let pirating run free, less games, people/devs abandon the medium?
Pick one

>>719150227
Money steers work.

>>719149763
seems like the guy that bitched about it some retarded faildev that made a non-game
I dunno why people like that get to have opinions on things that nobody else complains about

>>719150549
I don't give a shit about the e-celebs you fucking retard. That doesn't mean you get to demand someone else's money because some streamer monkey is making more than you.

>>719136056 (OP)
Then just charge more, idiot

>>719136056 (OP)
Japanese devs that complain about this should get linked spammed by DPS videos.

People are not there to watch your game. They are there to watch and talk with the streamer. DPS is the only people are there to watch for the dogshit gameplay and he gets no super little cash for it.

>>719149064
they get paid in the guy buying their game and that's all they're entitled to

>>719136056 (OP)
So what's stopping the devs from becoming streamers?

>>719140751
Not any more. The big bucks go to the investors. Hololive is slowly being hollowed out due to being a public company.

>>719150645
The only retard here is the one that is saying "I'm paying you in exposure" and expects to be taken seriously.

>>719136056 (OP)
The Japs still hold onto this common misconception that if someone doesn't watch the stream of a game, then they will buy it instead.
I can say with certainty that if I didn't watch the game I wouldn't even know it fucking existed, even less likely that I would buy it at random.
If your game is good then people are more likely to buy it after having seen it UNLESS it is a 100% story game like a VN or Danganronpa, or Ace Attorney.

>>719150743
>>719150767
get a load of this seething artlet
what's next, clothing companies claiming they deserve to get paid because someone wore their t-shirt in their video?

>>719150735
But who would make the games then?

>>719150731
>the guy buying their game
You mean the streamer? They don't buy the game though. The companies give them a key. Hell, like >>719144915 said they even bitch if they're not given a key.

>>719150872
Make the game while you stream, charge extra for giving the audience a BTS glimpse into the game

>>719137052
Capcom nuked the entire JP streaming community a long time ago. It's why now every corporate streamer has to wait for a cucked permission letter before playing any games

>>719150821
>clothing companies claiming they deserve to get paid because someone wore their t-shirt in their video?
Brother, you do know that the number of videos out there where a shirt, hat, or some other article of clothing is blurred out isn't zero, right? That shit isn't blurred out because of profanity or nudity either.

>>719148306
>olympics-tier athletes get nothing
Quite a few of them make a hell of a lot of money thanks to sponsorships, commercials, partnerships and what have you.
The cash prize offered by the US, for example, for getting an olympic medal was lowered recently because it's not a financial incentive anymore seeing that high level athletes already make more than enough money from advertising deals.

Maybe the devs should start streaming then

>omg streaming is popular!?!?!?
Did these old retards forget how it used to be in the old days when you would go to a friend's house on the weekend to hang out and watch them play a game?

>>719150964
Yeah it's blurred because Japanese are retarded and horrified of showing any brands on their content

>>719150976
You gotta understand anon, lil zoomie there is too young to remember when olympians had their faces on cereal boxes or appeared in commercials.

>>719150735
Not everyone is good at everything. That's the same like as asking "why don't they just become movie superstars and make millions if they need money?"

A platform to share revenue with the rights holder of whatever you're streaming, to drop all pretence and finally allow streamers to stream anything no matter the copyright. Doesn't sound like a bad idea at all.

>>719150924
Some indie devs do stream while working on their game but no one is making much money from it. It's not that interesting watching a dude work all day long.

>>719137816
>It isn't like the west where all "influences" are paid to only focus on AAA goyslop and literally nothing else
They're the whole reason friendslop has been a running trend now for over a year-plus now after blowing lethal company up and every subsequent co-op fotm since

>>719141938
>It's still huge but ironically it's being strangled by console companies, not bigger video game companies, because the entry bar for putting your games on console has risen since the PS4 era. Strangling the indie game scene as it sanitizes itself.
But the bar for self-publiushing at comiket or dlsite has not risen.

>>719137816
I didn't know that fucking Peak is a AAA game.

>>719149763
The most baffling of all is the company in charge of Gundam who literally forbids watchalongs(Not mirrors). That is, they forbid the streamer from simply having a stream where they say; "Hey lets watch Gundam together".
Literally not only free advertisement but also guaranteed royalties or sales from the viewers having to get their own copy.
I seriously want to meet the suit in charge of that decision and ask him why the hell it is like this.

>>719150821
Your argument is so weak. A T-shirt would never be the focus of a video, unlike a game. There is no transformation here - most AI create more transformative content than streamers.
>>719150779
The problem here is that it should be exposure and a small payment to the developer both. Streamers are completely talentless compared to devs, who actually need to have some skills to do what they do. By that alone it would be nice if devs got paid more. I’m all for someone like 2K doing a shitstorm about this with gta 6.

>>719151225
>Literally not only free advertisement but also guaranteed royalties or sales from the viewers having to get their own copy.
Their own copy of what, retard? All Gundam shows are either on their Youtube channel where you can watch it for free or on a streaming service where the money has already been handled beforehand as the deal for making use of their streaming service.
What, you think they get paid per episode viewer or some shit like a fucking movie theater?

>>719151015
Except that the steamer is not your friend and doesn’t give a fuck about you. Literally kys

>>719151313
if going from playing the game itself to watching an other dude play is not a transformation then your game is shit and boring

>>719151360
If they aren't getting money either way then it makes even less sense to forbid it.
>"We don't want more people to get in touch with our product"
???

>>719151398
You seem triggered, snowflake. Are you okay? Did the streamer you were paypigging for get a boyfriend or something?

>>719150994
They really should, but very VERY few of them are capable of being both charismatic and level headed enough to do this without being cringe. Only ones so far are Sakurai of Kirby/Smash Bros fame and Modern Vintage Gamer who does the retro engines for Limited Run Games.

>watching people play video games
will never understand zoomers

>>719136056 (OP)
To be honest, it should work like that.
Never understood how people can just play game, get a lot of money from that and on top of that deprive the company from sales. Many times they even have to pay the big ones to play them or zoomers won't buy shit in any degree unless the game is popular on twitch, it's like you are fucked either way.
A % should go to the developers.

>>719136056 (OP)
If it's so easy, just become a streamer yourself. Oh right...

>>719151313
>The problem here is that it should be exposure and a small payment to the developer both.
>"Yeah we already get a lot from streaming but we should get EVEN MORE"
Piss off. If it all comes down to greed then the devs have already lost the argument.

>>719140247
>27 million in less than two years
Is this real chat?

>>719150767
Except they're also paying the price of the game, you colossal faggot. The exposure and additional sales resulting from it are a bonus, but you're such a seething jealous greedy imp that you have the audacity to demand further compensation.
Reminds me of the Witcher writer signing away the IP rights for the games for a fixed sum, then bitching about not getting royalties when the games turned out to be a success.
Eat shit, commie.

>>719151427
>???
It's simple. The amount they get is already fixed and some talentless hack who's brilliant moneymaking idea is sitting in front of a computer and watching anime isn't going to add to that, so why should they sit there and enrich the absolute bottom of the barrel type of "content creation"?

>>719151503
*copyright strikes you*
let's see how well you gonna do now without illegally streaming content mister eceleb, hopefully you are charismatic enough to stream yourself without copyrighted material, right?

>>719136056 (OP)
Japanese are a little backwards and behind on everything internet. Streaming is literally free advertising for your game.That's why you even have sponsorships for streamers to play your game where even small streamers get payed to play a game.

>>719136056 (OP)
Didn't Nintendo try and cut in on this area before by demanding streamers and content creators join an official programme which backfired terribly when they all decided that it was just easier to look elsewhere? I think the big takeaway from that fiasco is that while devs are not gaining tangible cash benefits, it's still free marketing at the end of the day and good marketing usually costs a lot of fucking money.

>>719151645
>Except they're also paying the price of the game, you colossal faggot.
>>719144915
Hell, they even get a bunch of fucking spares to give away, like all the extra keys Capcom and Fromsoftware gave out to streamers to give away when they released Monster Hunter Wilds and Nightreign respectively.
Pay the price of the game my ass.

>>719151681
so true streamers should be paid billions to play games (game of course provided for free by the developer) and of course japan should not be behind the times and include niggers and fags as every single character, you dont wanna be backwards amirite?

>>719137146
yes and so did that persona company

>>719151746
>/pol/brainrot
Kek

>>719151681
>Streaming is literally free advertising for your game
>get payed to play a game.
If they're being PAID to play it, then it's not free you fucking ESL hick.

>>719151742
We're talking about indie nobodies, not Capcom and Fromsoftware giving out keys. Yeah the retarded streamers complaining about this are leeches, but you're changing the subject.

>>719151817
Most streams are not sponsored retard. That doesn't change the fact that devs pay streamers to play their game. Even smaller streamers with 1k viewers are getting sponsored sometimes.

>>719151746
You wish you could make billions acting like a clown instead of doing it for free in here.

>>719151807
go donate to your favorite streamer you faggot, it's the only way for you to experience even a semblance of social life

>>719151510
Exposure is a conmans payment, and usually a laughable proposition that is exploitative and only possible due to unbalanced power dynamics. Besides, if you are making claims that games on average sell more if they are streamed vs if they are not, you need to show solid evidence which backs that claim. Of course, I’ll be expecting cherrpicked outliers as I don’t have faith in your reading comprehension.

>>719151891
suck my dick you parasocial freak
you retards are barely human

>>719150976
>Quite a few of them make a hell of a lot of money thanks to sponsorships, commercials, partnerships and what have you.
No they don't, they're forbidden from doing just that in the only moment of exposure they get, which is during/before the Olympics.

>>719151043
Retard

>>719151659
>The amount they get is already fixed
So they entered a completely retarded deal?

>>719151921
>you need to show solid evidence which backs that claim.
The same companies sponsor streamers again and again to promote their games so they think it works.

>>719151668
*counters your copyright strike*
let's see you actually sue, pussy

Streamers fucking suck, get a hobby and stop wasting your time giving these cunts attention.

>/v/ - Marketing Experts
Kek

>>719151921
it's not supposed to be a payment
you're not entitled to get paid for someone recording himself using your product, if it were to be that way then devs would charge for the reviews and not pay for them

>>719151950
My negro they're not considered olympians until after they participate in the games. It's not disimilar to how an immigrant living in America isn't nationally an American until they complete all the procedures required to obtain citizenship.

Wasn't it exposed that like 60% of all viewers on twitch are bots just a few days ago?

>>719151714
Yup Nintendo definitely tried it and did so during the Wii U era. Which blew up in their faces.

>>719152084
If they are entertaining, what's the problem? Especially if they play something that you would never play yourself

>publishers pay tens of thousands of dollars for streamers to play their game for a couple hours
>indie devs want to streamers to play their games and also get paid by the streamers
Yeah I wonder whose games will get played on stream if this was the case

>>719152024
It's only "retarded" if the show exceeds ratings expectations. The price is agreed upon at the negotiating table with no regard for outlliers regarding feedback to the show.
In that way the licensor is actually coming out ahead if the show does poorly, at the cost of not getting even more should the show to great.

>play someone else's music for peoples entertainment
No you can't do that give me money I made that
>play someone else's movie for peoples entertainment
No you can't do that give me money I made that
>play someone else's videogame for peoples entertainment
Yeah that seems reasonable.

>>719151465
You have boomers on /v/ gossiping daily about e-celebs like AVGN and all the newsground people

>>719151950
>the only moment of exposure olympic athletes get is during the olympics
That's the biggest one, for sure, but 1. some do get approval, Usain Bolt is possibly the most famous and you'd see him in commercials during and around the olympics all the time, 2. a great many of them are notorious enough, and 2b. most of them are notorious enough in their own field/sport that they can easily get sponsorships from sporting goods brands.
Just have a look at how many followers someone like Abe Uta has on ig and how many of those posts are sponsored, even though barely anyone cares about judo and last time she won an olympic medal was in Tokyo.
Hell, even """fitness influencers""" survive on those kinds of deals and they're not even athletes.

>>719152310
Nice logic retard

>>719152323
He doesn't know what hes talking about. Twitch has been around for 10 years, same as many streamers

>>719152310
The real equivalent for music would be if you did a gig in a local bar and sang covers all night. Although, music companies are so greedy they probably would attempt to bleed you for all you're worth if they found out you had any worthwhile cash to take.

>>719152310
Stop posting and read up the thread, lil bro.

>>719151659
>Someone who has never seen your work getting a chance to be introduced to said work doesn't add anything
Amazing. I didn't think I'd find someone as retarded as the suits making this decision on 4chan.

>>719152056
The companies that invest into AI, which has barely any commercial use and is a money void? Yeah let’s listen to them

>>719136056 (OP)
Ever since the Japs let the jews, jeets and pakis in I've noticed they've gotten a LOT worse over this kind of shit

>>719152480
You do have to pay money to the record companies to do that

Can't devs just say that you're not allowed to stream their games, and if you want to stream you have to pay a fee?

>>719142906
both things are true but I can't be bothered to explain why

>>719140586
Name me one (1) stadium owner that actually put brick to mortar to build "their" stadium.

>>719152547
It's because their economy is going to shit and indie devs are struggling to make money

Streamers literally made games like Among Us, Repo, Lethal Company and so on hugely popular but /v/ can't understand why some streamers are getting sponosored to play a game. Kek. And japanese indie devs asking for compensation is even more funny.

>>719151921
The very fact that companies don't blanket ban streaming their game is already proof that it works. Unless you think the companies are purposefully letting themselves lose more money for the lols.

>>719152589
Yes, Nintendo did exactly that

>>719152661
Another recent one is Miiside. That game immensely profitied from the exposure from streamers

>>719152589
So the streamer has to pay for the video game and a fee to stream said video game?

>>719136213
fpbp streamers are parasites

>>719152369
What you are talking about is some athletes who happened to perform in Olympic Games are shilled on TV and Internet so that they become media personalities. This has little to do with actual sports, which you already noticed.

>>719152762
Fucking lmao. Comparing streamers to musicians.

>>719152661
streamers are not capable of "making" anything they are parasites you zoomer faggot

>>719152971
Nice argument retard

>>719152661
More like why are they getting paid in money when they're paying in exposure.
Streamers should just be paid in exposure as well.

>>719152670
Again, showing no evidence based on data or sales, just saying it must work because someone else is doing it. Not an argument.

>>719152971
Literally every job that doesn't produce your own food is parasitic, you fucking dunce.

>>719152289
Sorry, if that's your idea of entertainment you're a braindead monkeynigger. I get bored to death after having to endure watching some retard play a video game for longer than 80 seconds.

>>719153021
>>719153042
broccoli head subhumans you should be exterminated

>>719152289
Yeah sorry but watching people play games is the most cucked shit in the world.

>>719153042
>the job that maintains the power grid allowing you to shitpost on 4chan is parasitic

>>719153069
Good for you? Your argument is literally "Stop liking what i don't like"

>>719151493
I hate the vast majority of streamers, but
>Deprive the company from sales
>Zoomers won't buy shit in any degree unless the game is popular on twitch
So what is it? Videogames sales have only heavily increased since the social media era so what makes you think that it isn't the other way around? Streaming boosted sales and now developers are taking this new normal for granted.
This reeks of sour grapes to me, even though I would nuke twitch from the face of the earth if I could.

>>719153107
It’s the best when someone says “I just want to see what the game looks like” when in reality it’s a cope. There are always long plays on YouTube of the entire game without commentary. There is no need to watch streamers, ever.

>>719152128
>they're not considered olympians until after they participate in the games
Yeah, and they're not considered by advertisers either because they're absolute nobodies before participating.

>>719152369
>some do get approval
That is true but it's increasingly rare. The major shift happened less than a decade ago.

>great many of them are notorious enough
Most athletes are either
>not medal-material, which means generally not advertisement-worthy, or
>part of a team, which greatly decreases their personal exposure, or
>competing in a sport nobody gives a fuck about, which is actually most of them
Being a semi-attractive woman can surely help, but as you see-

>Just have a look at how many followers someone like Abe Uta has on ig and how many of those posts are sponsored,
-you're then forced to compete in the e-celeb influencer sphere, often whoring yourself out for a bit of attention, rather than simply being an athlete that's paid to be an athlete.

Don't get me wrong, a few of them actually hit the jackpot and manage to emerge as actual celebrities with all the money that implies, but the VAST majority of them are entirely forgotten the moment they exit the arena/ring/pool/whatever.
The fact the country of origin is tasked with paying the athlete means quite a few of them are forced to do an extra job on top of daily training just to pay rent, because most counties are cheap as fuck.

>>719153036
So you unironically believe companies are purposefully taking an action that they know loses them money. Advertisement works, otherwise it wouldn't exist. It is really that simple.

the more you focus on thinking about money the more deranged you become.
lots of small streamers just do it for fun and don't make a dime, it's the greedy motherfuckers that ruin it for everyone.

>>719153258
They are doing that with AI at this very moment, so yes, it’s possible. Again, no argument.

>You can't watch streamers!!!!
I can and i will

>>719147903
>forums
>kino
>some retard obsessing over every thread that didn't get a reply in a week calling it "necroposting" and jumping down your throat for giving good, accurate responses and his clique applauding because he has 20 000 forum posts
No. Imageboards are the ultimate and best form of public forums.

>>719153320
I say do what you want. I just think you’re really sad and gay.

>>719153417
Okay random internet dude

>>719153182
No, my argument is that you're a literal nigger and that you should do everyone a favor and off yourself asap

>>719153247
>and they're not considered by advertisers either because they're absolute nobodies before participating.
Nah, they're not nobodies. There are all sorts of competitions for the events these olympic hopefuls compete in that aren't the olympics.
It's just that being an olympian allows for global levels of clout. Some dude in ireland is less likely to give a shit about buying a cereal box with "Pan American Gymnastics Championship gold medalist Chungus mcBungus" versus one that says "Olympic gold medalist Chungus mcBungus".

>>719152515
How much did EA, Ubisoft or Sony invest into AI?

>>719136056 (OP)
Now do the same with game journos. Fuckers benefit writing about games without revenue sharing.

>>719153318
Hell, it wasn't even that long ago when companies were shilling for NFTs.

>>719152606
Name me one (1) modern indie dev that made their own programming language to code the game.

>>719136056 (OP)
retarded, but i do agree that creating game content is breach of copyright law
streaming platforms should just pay licensing fees, not streamers, twitch already takes 50% of what people make, its should be their responsibility to sort this out

>>719153464
>pfft what do I care about his opinion?!
Then why are you posting and telling us yours? Retard

>>719153124
No you don't understand. In the economy there are two forces that are fundamentally opposed and symbiotic to each other. Those who produce food and those who don't produce food. Those who produce food can survive without those wo don't. The same can't be said the other way around.

>>719153574
Anon there is literally a website called ai.sony

>>719153805
Furthermore, this is the reason why modern society is so fuckedd up. Everyone is cramming themselves into the cities in hopes of a better life while the fundamentals are eroded from underneath them.

>>719153519
Go back to /pol/

>>719153871
Do yourself a favor and log off the internet to go till the fields.

>>719152915
>>719153247
>you have to become a celebrity
>you have to compete with e-celebs
Of course, they're the ones who become bigger and make more money, but plenty of good athletes are celebrities in their field/sport, so, while the audience is smaller than the pool of CNN viewers, it's still a solid audience.

>>719153785
You don't even make sense, try again

>>719153941
Wow, you sure owned me.

>>719153551
>they're not nobodies.
Most of them absolutely are.

If you're already a celebrity before competing in the Olympics, no shit you won't be short on cash.
But your income is probably still not related to the salary you get as an athlete.

>>719153871
Wow thanks anime poster you figured out everything wrong with society. It’s so simple.

>>719153847
And does the site belong to SIE or a different part of Sony?

>>719154110
Anything arguments you might want to contribute?

ITT: /v/ hates streamers with a passion because they could never become one because they lack a personality, have no charisma and have nothing interest to say.

>>719154241
without being able to stream video games none of these people would be famous

>>719153964
You’re having a hard time paying attention to the thread and streamer at the same time I see, so let me give you the gist.
>I don’t like thing
>you: but I like thing
>I think you are gay for liking thing
>you: I don’t care
The point being, if you don’t care about the opinion of the people in this thread, why did you decide to tell us your opinion in the first place? You understand now Timmy?

wait til you guys find out how much money politicians make for what they do.

>>719136056 (OP)
>what is free advertising

>>719154236
Not really, since you’re just making shit up there is nothing to “contribute” to. I personally think we can blame mechanical clocks for the slow collapse of humanity. The primitive man had no clocks and was much happier, and besides, society started going downhill since their invention, no? Retard

>>719154241
That’s both an ad hominem and a non-sequitur, well done retard-kun.

>>719136056 (OP)
ACTORS EARN MORE MONEY FROM PLAYING ROLES THAN THE SCENARIO WRITERS WHO WROTE THEM

>>719137917
In the future zoomers are going to be sending 60$ to their favorite streamers while Vidya will have to rise to 500$ to off set the costs