Thread 719179043

>>719179043 (OP)
it is

>>719179043 (OP)
>left has 10+ cannons
>right has 1 cannon
left is stronger idiot

it's called the power of cool and it's also why you have 0 power

>>719179043 (OP)
Can a tank do any of this ? Yeah, I thought so.

>>719179043 (OP)
tanks got raped and gaped by drones

>>719179294
left has two cannons (smaller than the tank cannon) and two "lasers"

>>719179043 (OP)
That's what? A rifleman? 60 tonnes of fire support with rapid fire canons. That thing fucks over a tank in no time.

>>719179765
would a modern battle tank give a shit about 25mm shells?

>>719179043 (OP)
both get fucked by a 500 dollar drone

>>719181447
are drone robots the new hotness? anime drone game when?

>>719181762
drones have been raping tankfags hard the past several years

>>719181447
what about a raven with a full ecm suit?

I fucking love FAF it's so fun. Me and my friend can't really beat the AIs but it's still a great time.

>>719179765
Average mbt is of similar weight with a larger caliber cannon and the compact size means armor is thicker and better distributed as there's less surface area to cover
The other thing is that once you have mech enabling technology you can just apply it to less retarded form factors for dramatically better outcomes

>>719179043 (OP)
Yes, walkers are superior in spirit which is all that matters.

>>719179043 (OP)
not to mention that in battletech left weighs less than right

>>719181762
No one likes drones, war manages to keep getting gayer ever since the last masculine conflict, ww2, fuck carriers, fuck fighters, fuck drones, battleships, bayonettes and tanks are the only legitimate way to fight a war.

>>719179043 (OP)
Mechas can fly!

>>719182245
>ww2
>fuck fighters
Anon...

>>719179991
From another tank at ground level, probably not. It's not impossible. The Bradley is credited with MBT kills.
But mechs aren't at ground level. They'd be shooting at the thinnest armor of the tank, its top.
Boom goes the autoloader, everyone dead.

No tankfag ever acknowledges this height advantage.

>>719179043 (OP)
Did someone order 2 AC20's directly to the torso? Coming right up!

>>719181965
damn. so in armored core games, drones could kill ravens by widdling them down, except in 4 maybe
>>719182245
yeah seeing that video of that one guy accepting his defeat really shown me the reality of tech.

>>719179043 (OP)
What you got tired of getting blown the fuck out on /tg/?

>>719182426
MWLL version is better

>>719182245
>getting killed by artillery from 20km away is not gay, getting killed by drone piloted from 20km away is gay!!
interesting logic

>>719179294
>left has 5000 points of failure
>right has two

>>719182425
>No tankfag ever acknowledges this height advantage.
but tanks have "height advantage", since mechs are so tall they will be sniped from 5km away easily by anything

>>719179043 (OP)
Left is cooler therefore should be stronger, if you disagree you are a faggot and should be banned from designing strategy games (And honestly playing them too)
like these fags: >>719179567 >>719181447
Absolutely soulless cattle who saw footage of modern "war" and thought that it's a good blueprint for videogames instead of designing something fun like chrono legionnaires, mirage tanks, walkers and so on

>>719182553
He's got a point. The bigger and louder the explosion, and the more difficult the shot is to land, the more masculine the weapon.
Getting slain by a shell the size of a car requiring the logistics of an entire supernation to produce and fire, supported by a crew of hundreds all deciding you're enough of a threat to need to die Right Now this excessively is infinitely more heterosexual than a $20 hobby quadcopter dropping a grenade as an afterthought.
Were you that fucking unimportant and impotent to die so pathetically?

>>719179043 (OP)
Is that a blackjack? I love those guys, my favorite loadout is 4 ac/2s with as much ammo as I can cram into the little bastard.

>>719179043 (OP)
>2x Large Lasers
>2x Autocannon/5s
>2x medium lasers

vs

>1x 120mm M256 smoothbore cannon
>1x 7.62 M240 coax

Because it is.

>>719183283
shell costs 1000-3000 dollars, drone costs 500-1000 dollars. There's practically no difference

>>719182730
Wow deranged Karen
>>719179043 (OP)
Women writing
>>719182178

>>719182730
hahhaa little plastic trash goes pew pew

>>719183725
I think understanding why Schwerer Gustav is cool while aliexpress drones aren't (even though they accomplish the same goal - delivering explosive ordnance) is a litmus test of being a man

>>719179043 (OP)
Only battlekeks do with these walking trashcans, when they are the worst form of mecha to bring up as an argument for superiority over tanks, because they are specifically everything that tankfags say makes mecha less viable x10, just a turret on pointless legs that doesn't even commit enough to the humanoid form to take advantage of it. It's all the downsides compared to tanks without the upside of being able to essentially do everything a human can do but heavily armored, much bigger and more powerful. Humanoid mecha are so modular, their choice of weapon for specific combat scenarios is only limited by having it there to pick up and when they are not used for combat they can literally lay down in cover or they can effectively help building emplacements and bases without specialized tools or heavy machinery (since some bring up drones, that's also fun, because at least a humanoid mecha could attempt to swat them out of the sky). Whenever a walking trashcan isn't walking and/or shooting it immediately becomes a big useless paperweight. At least tanks have the low profile and form-function effectiveness going for them to do that.

>>719179043 (OP)
tankfags might be the most obnoxious retards to have ever retarded in the history of retardation
mechs are cool, no one cares about your gay realism shit$
get droned worthless faggot

>>719179043 (OP)
rule of cool, faggot
now kys

>>719184630
left sends children to hell forsaken isekai while right sends them directly to God's very own Garden of Eden

>>719179043 (OP)
yes. left has the equivalent of two naval cannons and a handful of lasers, or four tank cannon equvalents depending on loadout/model. right has a single dinky cannon and would get obliterated from further away due to the left's superior range.

>>719184042
>e-celeb image
>worthless post

>>719184630
My favorite part is when people buy a supposedly rugged 4x4 workhorse car and then still cry about every little scratch on it.

>>719179043 (OP)
left is stronger but impractical, Tanks just do it better because they still get the job done and cheaper.

mechas are dumb conceptually, military utility wise
it's why they don't build them irl
you're not smart for figuring that out

>>719185201
or never leave the paved road.

>>719184475
Noone personifies the raped more than tankfags. Please understand.

>>719182245
>>719182553
The only reason anyone is using drones is because there is only one still functional factory in the united states that makes artillery shells but a million billion faggot hobbyist drone retailers with warehouses full of chinese ones.

>>719179043 (OP)
>realismfag keeps being an obnoxious faggot

>>719182426
Are quad track vehicles a meme? I love the aesthetic but something tells me there's a reason tracks are used instead of wheels.

>>719185535
The tech just isn't good enough to make them viable yet. When urban warfare robots become common you'll probably see slightly scaled up humanoid models that carry heavy weapons. We're never going to see building sized mechs though, they are retarded.

>>719182426
>torso
>implying
I melee

>>719186240
so this but x4?

>>719184630
>150K for a pick-up
Fucking why, you can get a fast car that actually looks good like a Porsche and still have enough money left to buy a cheap pick-up with that money.

>>719186553
Ye. Similar to the pic I replied to.

>>719179043 (OP)
I high tech supertank is still going to be a better option than a mech. The argument has always been fantasy faggotry with flying and rocket boosters and railguns vs a normal current day tank.
>le drones
A mech with current tech would be an even bigger target against drones. It wont be long till we get fielded anti drone active defense and then the arms race will continue.

>>719186240
Yes. More maintenance and far more complicated to power four treads instead of two. Also turns like shit in comparison to two.

>>719179991
It would definitely give a shit about 2 lasers capable of outputting 176,000kJ of power in a single trigger pull. Plus we have only a rough estimate of the caliber of autocannon shells. A modern tank would be the equivalent to a Scorpion light tank. You know, that thing that's bought in bulk and meant to delay invading forces with shitty and replaceable chaff?

>>719182245
No one likes Tanks, war manages to keep getting gayer ever since the last masculine conflict, The Battle of Crécy, fuck battleships, fuck planes, fuck tanks, horseback, spears and bows are the only legitimate way to fight a war.

>>719186857
>active defense
I wonder if there's even a solution for the really low flying drones. If you're anywhere in an urban enviorment or close to trees/bushes the drones can weave around obstacles two feet off the ground that probably block them from view until it's too late. There have been multiple videos of drones flying low enough for cats to bat them out of the air.

>>719187158
Specialized cat unit.

>>719187145
Well that is also true, war reached its peak in the early modern era.

>>719187367
CIA to begin training cats to destroy surveillance drones.

>>719186857
>I high tech supertank is still going to be a better option than a mech.
For a long time now I've observed retards argue their retard reddit brainlet opinions of the matter regurgitated from other sources because they never took a minute to think about it. The only strength a modern tank actually has is its armor that moves fast. That's it. The gaymer faggot in us all incorrectly attributes 'slow and durable' to the word 'tank.' That is incorrect, its fast and it won't usually blow up when shot.

Can a big robot move just as fast, probably not blow up when shot and be comparable in cost? When all of those answers are yes then there's no real difference between the two and at that point why the fuck not when the engineering and software involved will already be in use at every level of society and probably be interchangeable.

>>719179043 (OP)
WAIT A MINUTE, WHAT IF WE....

>>719179043 (OP)
?
Strategy games are pretty fair to tanks honestly.
It's mecha anime and real life 21st century war where tanks are useless

>>719187460
war peaked before the first multiple chambered round firearm was invented
it all went downhill from there

Siege Tank is stronger than Goliath, so no.

>>719188198
We lets check into that.

CnC Tiberian Sun
>Titan walker
>Is slow, has a big gun, destroys other vehicles quickly

>Wolverine
>Is fast and light, mulches infantry, guns not strong enough to punch through vehicle armor

>Mammoth Mk II
>Biggest robot, biggest guns, slowest unit in the game

Now for the tanks.

>Tick Tank, light armor, light gun, buries itself to become turret

>Flame tank, burrows underground, lights infantry and buildings on fire, dangerous to friendlies when destroyed

>Attack Buggy, fast, fragile, nightmare to infantry

I think the mechs have it if you want a force that will break through enemy lines and don't mind taking a bit to get there.

>>719179043 (OP)
right loses to a tiny drone lol

>>719188498
If you consider the fucking buggy a tank then the mobile artillery of Nod is absolutely a tank and that was one of the strongest things pre firestorm.

>>719188128
Game?0

>>719188790
Nod barely has poweful ground vehicles to being with, I was stretching the definition to get that 3rd example. The Banshee arguably shouldn't even be factored as that was made with alien tech, so that's like giving African tribesman a F-18 against other tribals.

>>719188498
?
If your argument is that a tank should be the strongest unit in the game in a sci-fi RTS, you have lost the plot. Just be glad they're still around as useful mid-range units and not completely obsolete

one has better agility and evasive maneuverability

>>719188957
Hey now, Kane's mind is just that brilliant, he made the !Scrin ship that had the Tacitus.
Also, in TibWars the Mammoth Tank absolutely savages the Avatar if you wanted a better example of an rts giving the win over to the tanks.

>>719189043
It's also the CnC setting, where one of the consistently strongest unit is a big fuck off tank that the GDI uses...and the Soviets, and the Chinese. Westwood REALLY liked using the Mammoth. Even Petroglyph used it in Empire at War.

>>719188918
GBO2

Mechy-est of Mecha feeling games. It's gacha but old so you have multiple hundreds of pratically free mechs from the non-paypiggy shop to play.

Online PvP only. You can get out of mech for objectives, sabotage, repair. Matches divided by power scaling so if you prefer slower "realistic" matches pick 300-400 power, if you want hyper stuff go for 550+
picrel also in the game, my fav tank-mech

>>719189981
left bot is way cooler than right

>>719190018
I know. You can transform into tank mode and drift around everyone (game has limited rotational speed, especially at lower power levels so you mog 'em). You can also ram into mechs to stun, just when they thought they were safe close-range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyXFdX58xWs&t=25s

>>719187873
If a tracked suspension allows to carry more weight you can have more armor and weapons at the same mobility. And enjoy a lower profile while your at it.

>>719184414
t. retarded white nigger

>>719184475
Literally all you have to do is fucking build tetrapod/hexapod mecha and tankfags lose any possible objection because they can do everything a tank can do and a bunch of things a tank can't do. They even win on cost because treads are heavy as fuck.

>>719185535
Midwit faggot who's going to get rekt by a spider mech.

>>719186857
A mech can do moves a tank can't, like pretty much instantly move in every direction while a tank will have to turn.

BAR solved this by making mechs and tanks different utilities

>>719187873
A mech doesn't even need to be fast to be useful, it just needs to be able to get to places a tank can't get to, which is an inherent feature of using legs. People also act like even if a big mech wins against a tank 1v1, the tank wins on cost because you can build a bunch of tanks for the same price. What they forgot about is that you can build a mech roughly the same size and form factor as a tank and it could end up costing less. You don't always have to build fucking Metal Gear REX. You can build something much more reasonably sized and it'll be cost-effective.

>>719191084
>because they can do everything a tank can do and a bunch of things a tank can't do
Like avoid getting pissed on by drones for instance. Tanks are forward-biased and can't turn fast enough to fire on a drone swarm. A mech can carry more weapons and fire in multiple directions at once to get rid of drones.

>>719191378
They also tend to leave out the logistics train for both with a fleet of tanks being significantly longer. Even if we give both auto-loading systems, a tank crew would be minimum 3 people, possibly more depending on the size of the tank. A mech operates surprisingly more like a plane than a tank, with a crew compliment usually of 1, maybe 2. Add in most mechs are purpose built with a specific combat role in mind and tanks we have today are of the main battle variety with variants effectively disappearing then you see the further advantage of a mech over a tank. Less personnel means less food, less pay, less basic human comforts you have to factor in on top of fuel, ammunition, and maintenance. So that's why you get things like scout mechs, fire support mechs, main line battle mechs, fast moving cavalry mechs....and you just get tank. All of the other roles specialized tanks used to serve went to apc's, armored vehicles and other weapon systems that did the job better. A mech would be a multi-role, multi-purpose weapons platform you could put anywhere and it would operate effectively.

>>719184630
>more truck than bed
Americans are retarded.

>>719191964
This guy gets it. If a mech can do the jobs of 5 different wheeled or treaded vehicles with only minor refits, the logistics are hugely simplified.

Mecha are easier to repair too. Ever tried to repair a modern car? It's fucking nuts how complex they are, and much of this is done on purpose to force you to take it back to the dealership every time you need to repair it instead of working on it yourself. A lot of things that used to be minor repairs now require you to practically disassemble the whole engine. But with a mech, if the arm is damaged, all you have to do is take off the arm and put a new arm on.

>>719179043 (OP)
What I find actually amusing is that tanktards genuinely think tracked locomotion is better than limbs. They even think it's less complex.

Limbs are insanely simple, they are springs and levers, and they're extremely adaptable. Tracks can only do 1 thing, limbs can do dozens of things. Limbs still work even if parts of them are missing or some of the limbs are missing. Tracks stop working with any kind of damage at all.

Nor do armored vehicles have any actually effective armor, as it turns out a tiny little drone is enough to defeat them without issue.

At the end of the day all a mech needs to do is basically be an upscaled infantryman and it's incredibly useful

>>719191134
>>719191687
>a mech can do le sci-fi backflips vs your current day tank
This is what i meant.
Well sci-fi tank can backflip and 360 beyblade too.
>>719191964
Nuh-uh sci-fi tank has a plasma beam weapon that does not require a crew to operate.
(Btw the only reason to get an autoloader is when the shells become too heavy/ exausting to carry for a crewmember but at the cost of extra maintainance. That crewmember less in the tank becomes another crewmember at the base working on that vehicle.)
>>719192358
Tanks are pretty modular. If you destroy it's gun they can just lift it out and replace it. But le sci-fi tank also has external weapons that are replaced in a whim.

>>719191964
I see mechs as basically a helicopter that moves on the ground instead of the air

>>719192358
I actually like Battletech for having "lemon" mechs. Mechs specifically designed by their manufacturers to have constant maintenance issues that can only be solved by monthly PMs with parts that are sold only by the manufacturers and were never really intended to go to war and made during a time of relative peace. Things like the Clint, the Assassin, the 1A1 Charger are shit you get when you sell to a government that will buy everything but not necessarily look to closely into what they're buying. Because said government HAS to buy every new thing to keep up appearances of technological superiority while buying shit no one really knows works or not....until someone presses the "fuck around" button to see what happens next.

>>719192621
>being able to rotate your mech's upper half to face backwards without turning the whole vehicle is le sci-fi backflip
lel, okay strawmanning nigger

>>719192621
Tanks are only modular in the gun pod. If any part of them except the gun gets damaged, they have to spend approximately 9001 years in the repair bay.

>>719192572
Their armor was effective in the days before drones because their armor is concentrated in the front and it was hard to get behind them. This isn't the case anymore. Tanks were honestly already showing their age even during the Gulf War with attack helicopters shredding them. But drones made it even easier.

>>719182426
In reality:
>Slow
>Easily outranged
>Vehicle armor so it's easy to focus damage in an area
>More vulnerable to through armor criticals
Demolishers deserve respect but they're easily outplayed.

>>719192621
>being able to rotate your mech's upper half to face backwards without turning the whole vehicle is le sci-fi backflip
lel, okay strawmanning nigger

>modular
Tanks are only modular in the gun pod. If any part of them except the gun gets damaged, they have to spend approximately 9001 years in the repair bay.

>>719192572
Their armor was effective in the days before drones because their armor is concentrated in the front and it was hard to get behind them. This isn't the case anymore. Tanks were honestly already showing their age even during the Gulf War with attack helicopters shredding them. But drones made it even easier.

>>719192825
>Blackjack was memed in universe for having poor armor plating mounts and its legs would lock up
>Whether they were true or not, the meme persisted and the Blackjack's poor reputation maintains even to this day
It's little stories like that that make the Battletech universe really feel alive.

>>719193091
fucking lmao, this is great, I wish this had been made like 20 fucking years ago, maybe if these fucking midwit niggers had been shut the fuck down by this meme back then we'd already be setting up an actual legitimate mech industry.

The only problem is
>requires specialized launching warships

This is actually a real problem in the era of hypersonic missiles, but plenty of non-carrier-based jets still exist.

>>719193091
Traanksgender, sisters... our response? This really rustled my dilater, are mechs actually better?

>>719183283
>Artillery is expensive
>Drones are cheap
kek

>>719186019
But artillery is cheap. I can understand slowing down or scaling down production during peacetime, but the retards in charge are almost constantly at war.

>>719193581
lol tanktrannies btfo

So tired of idiots saying tanks are obselete because of the ukraine war, where none of the tanks in it use fucking APS or EW systems... Actual reddit tier opinion

>>719193091
>why not just fight with ships
3 0 0 mm
0
0
m
m

>>719193848
>none of the tanks in it use fucking APS or EW systems
Well whose fucking fault is that, peckerwood? Nobody's stopping them from putting EW systems on a tank. But even with jamming, a laser can still direct drones to the target visually.

>>719184630
>Densely-populated country without much oil uses small, fuel-efficient truck
>Less densely-populated country with lots of oil uses large, fuel-consuming truck
Wow.

>>719193848
Both systems are ought to be used, no? That and these anti-shaped charge stream breaking dresses they put on tanks nowadays.
If only there was a way to make them look cooler.

>>719193201
cute

>>719194052
Because they can't afford it and don't have the tech base to build them? US stripped them from the tanks they sent ukraine.
>. But even with jamming, a laser can still direct drones to the target visually.
Which is what APS is for. EW jam's, and then the APS takes it down if that fails. Also lets not forget both russia and ukraine seem to throw their tanks straight into the enemy with zero support and making them a big undefended target. We got cavemen tactics going on and are using stupidity as an argument.

>>719191996
>>719184630
It's about status. It's not about having a working-man truck, it's about PRETENDING to have a working-man truck.

>>719194258
>It's about stupidity
fixed that for you, buying something that has a specific purpose and not using it for that, is just telling the world you are a braindead consumer.

>>719194186
Interestingly the Ukraine War is already showing just how long a war between peer states would probably last as it's been stressing supply and logistics for the more technologically advanced munitions and equipment to the absolute limits. Yeah, you start the war with all your advanced shit, but as it drags on with no clear winner in sight and you can't keep using that shit as losses mount, you're gonna have to bring in the second and maybe even third line gear to fill the gaps. Or get real creative with what you have left.

>>719194186
A mech will always have superior active protection because its design gives it the ability to mount more weapons that can respond to drone swarms more effectively than any tank. A humanoid mech also has a slimmer targeting profile as long as it's not 50 feet tall. A 15-20 foot humanoid would be much more capable of not only shooting drones down but dodging them. Sure, you could make a tank more resilient to drones, but a mech can be made even stronger against them for cheaper.

>>719194478
It will have that superior protection only when it's on it, not before.
It's silly to equalize form-factor to useful loads that much, without even factoring in necessary foundation.

>>719194391
Or it could just be two ex-Soviet states deciding to get rid of the six gorillion pieces of military equipment that the Soviets made during the cold war arms race and test out a few of their newer toys in this retarded war.

>>719194391
>, you're gonna have to bring in the second and maybe even third line gear to fill the gaps. Or get real creative with what you have left.
The problem is ukraine never had the manufacturing capability to supply themselves in the first place. US military atleast makes every thing in the country, we could build the gear with no issues.
>>719194478
>A 15-20 foot humanoid would be much more capable of not only shooting drones down but dodging them. Sure, you could make a tank more resilient to drones, but a mech can be made even stronger against them for cheaper.
You getting basically into power armor territory which i think everyone would agree has many advantages and is very realistic.

>>719193086
The point is the speed it can do it with. You have fantasy speed in mind on how quick it happens.
>gun pod
kek the whole thing after ww2 was to make engines more modular in the first place so you can replace the whole package by again, lifting it out.
>>719194052
It's not perfected yet to counter the small drones. Ukraine is litterally a betatest for new and old weaponsystems like vietnam and iraq were.
Companies right now are rushing these system out with their new generation tanks.
>>719194137
Tandem charges do that. But theres plenty of footage of tanks surviving 10+ hits of both drones and missles. The newer versions are still defeating most armor.
>>719193201
Meanwhile.
>>719194478
How do you want to fit an aps that can shoot down a drone on a man sized target while also being able to carry a gun that can atleast be a danger to an ordinary bunker? And no you cant just spawn an "arm" that would be the same argument as saying. "fits on the roof".

Tanks can drive up and down slopes, usually without flipping over. How do you stop a mech from tripping over something?

>>719194478
>A mech will always have superior active protection
A higher profile will make it way more vulernable, more weapons means you need to store more ammo, which leads to even more problem, mechs are not realistic, i cannot even believe someone is pretending they are.
> humanoid mech also has a slimmer targeting profile as long as it's not 50 feet tall. A 15-20 foot humanoid would be much more capable of not only shooting drones down but dodging them. Sure, you could make a tank more resilient to drones, but a mech can be made even stronger against them for cheaper.
You have no idea how physics work or why the square cube laws is going to fuck this all up.

>>719194798
We don't, actually, make everything in house anymore. That's why the big thing with Taiwan and the microchip manufactories there were a huge bugbear with China getting real bitchy about it. A lot of the Wests manufacturing capabilities, and some of their energy generation, were shipped OUT of country. Meaning they made the globohomo assumption that constant interdependencies with economics would stop wars from happening because no one would dare challenge the status quo and ruin their QoL....and then Russia went and said fuck it. If something big happened somewhere, the EU would be up shit creek without a paddle entirely because of that interdependence....and that they haven't bothered to properly maintain their personal armies for decades.

>>719194798
15-20 feet is just a tad bigger than power armor. It's a smallish mech, but I think a lot of mecha will end up being about like that.

>>719194865
>How do you want to fit an aps that can shoot down a drone on a man sized target while also being able to carry a gun that can atleast be a danger to an ordinary bunker?
By building a hexapod mech.

>>719194882
By building a hexapod mech.

>>719194865
>It's not perfected yet to counter the small drones.
US got a long range microwave gun that makes swarms of small drones completely impotent, the value in drones is they are cheap, but if you cant get a single one to their target anymore whats the point, you gotta make them bigger to make them more survivable but then you reach jet territory.

>>719194993
>muh square cube law
This is already addressed by reducing the height of the mech to 15-20 feet, midwit.

>>719195065
All us weaponry is made in the country, Its a legal requirement. You are wrong, the stuff you are bringing up is not at all related to weapons manufacturing.

>>719195065
I remember an old Penn and Teller show talking about the path to world peace was everyone's economy being so interconnected that no one wanted to fuck with war out of fear of bankrupting themselves. Guess that one was bullshit

>>719194882
But can tanks drive up slippery slopes?
Gotcha.

>>719195124
>Just build a tank with 6 legs instead of 2 tracks

>>719195228
Its not merely the height, its the weight. 15-20 feet is still fuck huge and equipping it with armor and weapons is going to slow the fucking thing down massively

>>719182502
I fucking loved MWLL demolishers, made mechfags seethe immensely when you kneecap them with two LBX20 salvos.

>>719195065
>the globohomo assumption that constant interdependencies with economics would stop wars from happening
You can't seriously think anyone but the most ignorant of EU pencilpushers would ever assume that, right?

>>719195358
This. I don't think that anon understands just how heavy even a 20 foot tall machine would be.

>>719195353
Yes, unironically. Tank tracks are hefty as fuck and cost a lot.

>>719195358
The weight is substantially reduced too. And as for the weapons and armor weighing it down, that depends entirely on what you choose to equip it with. Matrix APUs, for instance, have stripped-down armor, choosing to use their weight capacity entirely on weapons.

I really wish sub 200mm guns were worth building in FTD

>>719182483
>widdling

>>719195353
Tank tracks effectively have 8-10 legs on them already. Every single wheel is attached to a leg

>>719195353
Yes, it's more believable than these faggots pretending we can build mechs that run and jump like ninja's and then claim it beats everything else.
>>719195730
This. It distributes weight much better. And boosting an engine to two drivewheels is much more effective than six separate legs.

>>719195460
People like Klaus Schwab and much of Brussels bean counters really DID think that economic sanctions would bully Russia enough to not attack Ukraine...and now Germany is having an energy crisis but Russia isn't. Because the Russians shut off the fuel to Germany after the sanctions.

There really are people dumb enough to think that.

>>719195243
My mistake then. Have a Nick Cage as compensation.

>>719195523
Make most of the mech out of plastic? People assume a mech has to be made out of metal. This is an example of the "magic" technology described in >>719193091 that actually could be disproportionately beneficial to mecha. A mech can be designed to be cheaper because many mech designs aren't intended to absorb hits like a tank can, so you don't necessarily need top-quality armor.

Ahem.
M.A.R.V.

>>719184475
Also that type of mech that always appears in the more realistic versions of mechas, meanwhile you cant criticize something like evangelion as not being realistic because it was never meant to be

>>719186019
and because you can literally carry a bomb drone in a backpack

>Tankfags in 2025
Bro they have been a meme for like half a century now

>>719182245
>war manages to keep getting gayer
good
the less appealing war is, the less likely we are to engage in it

>>719196151
Maybe only to people who are prone to calling anything they don't like gay, maybe.
All others still like it. Wars shall continue.

>>719195564
How the fuck is its weight being reduced? Look at the height comparison. Just by height alone it'd be 37 times heavier than a person and it's not even factoring how heavy it'd be with steel. And at that weight you'd run into issues with all that weight being on your machine's feet meaning it'd sink into soft soil.

>>719195971
Eh you'd still run into the issues I described above. Square cube law is a bitch and even at the lightest imagining you'd have issues. Elepants for example, have wide feet and four legs to distribute their weight. Your feet would have to be very specifically designed to overcome this issue.

>>719195847
>And boosting an engine to two drivewheels is much more effective than six separate legs.
Yeah, right up until the mech hides behind a hill and nukes you with vertical launch missiles attached to its backpack and you can't climb over the hill to respond because you're a faggot who thought lame old tank tracks were better than sexy mech legs.

>>719196151
If only this was actually true. But as long as simps exist, there will be war because some gynocentric retard wants to impress some roastie, not realizing that she only cares about Chad.

>>719194993
Square cube law doesn't prohibit structures of immense sizes.
You just try to come up with tech without prerequisite theories necessary for that.

>>719179294
Right would 1 tap left from 2 miles, 3/4 buried into the dirt where return fire is impossible.

>>719181447
Drones get BTFO by AMS

>>719196151
l m a o

>>719196424
>*dodges all the tank shells fired from long range until it closes the distance*

>>719196368
Yeah but it's worse when you're dealing with mobile devices. Buildings just need to be built to not fall over even if they're massive. Ships don't need to move super fast and use the efficiency of water to be so big. When you start getting into machines walking it becomes an issue.

>>719196231
sure, but sucking all the concepts of 'glory' and 'honor' out of war is objectively a good thing
ideally the picture people have of war should not be
>men bravely charging at the enemy, killing as many as they can before suffering a valiant defeat
but rather
>a miserable man sits in a muddy trench and something drops into his lap, blowing apart most of his lower half 2 seconds later; he clings to life for nearly 4 minutes, dying alone for nothing

>>719196345
>If only this was actually true. But as long as simps exist, there will be war because some gynocentric retard wants to impress some roastie, not realizing that she only cares about Chad.
Rude.

>>719196424
Why is the tank outranging the mech if they have roughly comparable ballistic armaments? Wouldn't the mech have a greater likelihood of hitting the tank, buried or not, thanks to it's energy weapons having pinpoint accuracy? It's down to user error to miss with those at that point.

>>719194798
>US military atleast makes every thing in the country
he doesn't know

>>719196332
>Eh you'd still run into the issues I described above.
Press X to doubt. I'm not going to say using lighter materials like plastic is guaranteed to work, but it's an idea worth looking at. It's worth more consideration than tankfags want to give it, at any rate.

>Your feet would have to be very specifically designed to overcome this issue.
Footpad design isn't given enough attention. It's an extremely important aspect of a mech, arguably the most important after the main hull, but creating better feet is totally possible.

>>719196547
Range is usually an abstraction in Battletech but IIRC the AC2 usually is portrayed as having a range of about 1200 meters.

>>719195243
yeah, silly little things like semiconductors have nothing to do with advanced weapon systems
fucking moron

>>719179567
everyone is raped and gaped by drones, idiot. You think mechs wouldn't be too?

>>719194993
>more weapons means you need to store more ammo
And this isn't a problem for tanks because...?

>>719196424
Left hides behind a hill. What now, biatch?

>>719196796
mechs just slap the drones away
unless you're saying irl you would lose to bats? rofl what a pussy

>>719196345
>as long as simps exist, there will be war blah blah blah
War has never once, in human history, been faught over a woman or to impress women. Wars are faught for the control of resources. Ironically, by creating this hecking chudcel narrative of wars being faught by simps you are pushing a gynocentric worldview. No one cares what women think even in 2025, just look at the Palastine/Isreal conflict for proof.

>>719196910
Would you still win to bats if they exploded when they touch you?

>>719196941
yes, pussy
man up champ

>>719196926
Why do you think men want resources? To get women. Billionaires think they can get girls with money, so they use their influence to start wars to get money. But maybe the next crop of elites will at least recognize the futility of this approach because of Jeff Bezos getting raped in divorce court and taken to the cleaners.

>>719196345
Yeah, right up until the tank hides behind a hill and nukes you with vertical launch missiles attached to its "lel roof" and you can with "lel sci-fi" climb over the hill to respond and still not shoot back cause im faster backing up than you can go forward because you're a faggot who thought lame legs going up hill were faster than treads going downhill.
Litterally every mech argument includes theory that is still sci-fi up until athletic human like mobility is achieved.

>>719196520
>sure, but sucking all the concepts of 'glory' and 'honor' out of war is objectively a good thing
No, it's actually not.
>ideally the picture people have of war should not be
To whose ideal and to what end? You understand the magnitude of your pretense, right?
>>men bravely charging at the enemy, killing as many as they can before suffering a valiant defeat
Correct idea, but it must be tempered in realism of
>a miserable man sits in a muddy trench and something drops into his lap, blowing apart most of his lower half 2 seconds later; he clings to life for nearly 4 minutes, dying alone for nothing
Because this misery on its own creates a world of cowardice you live in today, and cowards, domesticated manchildren and their overbearing keepers, are easily exploited.
>dying alone for nothing
Maybe if one had nothing to live for, or has chosen, or been chosen to work for actually unjust and unironically dishonorable people.


Some of these domesticated people might join sorely so as to not listen to the "war bad" crowd because they're annoying and do not understand.

>>719197207
Anon, you're reaching schoolyard child levels of argumentation here

>Your mech can't hurt my tank because it's got super anti mech armor!
>Well my mech has super AP rounds that beat super anti mech armor!
>Nuh uh, my tank also has homing missiles that can fire behind hills so you can't use your super AP rounds!

>>719197207
You're not going to be faster backing up from a dead stop than a reasonably sized mech. Tanks are heavy and will accelerate much more slowly than all but the heaviest mecha.

>>719179043 (OP)
mechs r retarded legs suck wheels and treads fte

>>719196807
The reply i was responding was talking about strapping more weapons than a tanks has onto the mech. As if that isn't going to make the mech more cumbersome.

>>719197374
Yeah, well, welcome to 4chan.

>>719196673
Anon we make semiconductors in the US, Intel exists....

>>719197174
>Billionaires
pursue money. Money is its own reward for these.
Not for the first time it's been noted by others that billionaires are typically either eccentric, or have some emptiness to them, inability to enjoy normal family or creation. They look at the world through constant report spreadsheets. They're addicts.

>>719197207
>athletic human like mobility is achieved
To be fair in BT they do have that mobility. They can climb, punch, jump. Most of the games just portray them as walking tanks because that's easier. They even have artificial muscles called Myomer with high strength to weight ratios.

It's all still science fiction of course.

>>719179043 (OP)
>Look thumbnail on catalog
>"oh cool! Doom map thread"
>Thread is really about mechs
my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined

Aren't tanks still a threat to mechs in battletech?

>>719197579
…

More moving parts and a higher center of mass, as well as fewer than 3 points of contact to the ground. You shouldn't have to be an engineer to understand the drawbacks of this design.

>>719197615
very much so, an AC20 on a tank is still going to fuck up a mech

>>719197419
Acceleration is more about mass than movement type. Elephants take a while to get up to speed and stop too.

The second anything has a leg you get a major weakness. Say goodbye to all of your movement and aiming and everything.

>>719197543
Barely. Most of our chip fabs are in Taiwan. We don't have enough chip manufacturing capacity to do shit with anymore.

>>719197579
Are you drunk, son?

>>719197579
Train that pattern recognition.

>>719197374
You finally fucking noticed. Holy shit.

>>719197419
>i do not understand physics the post
The heavier you are, the slower you will accelerate

>>719179043 (OP)
>6'0
>5'12

>>719197694
TSMC is building fabs in the US, Intel and Micron all manufacture within the US. And there are dozens of other smaller manufacturers. The examples you are bringing up, apply only to commercial products.

>>719194359
But anon just said that?

Why did it take so long for drones to be invented? I always thought they wouldn’t work because the propellers would be way too small and whatever cargo they’re carrying would be way heavy, but then one day they just because a reality.

>>719197615
They can be. Schrek is one of my favorite tanks in the BT universe and will make any pilot humbled if you use them right. In gameplay they still have issues to overcome, mostly from their armor being all or nothing and criticals REALLY hurting but they're great for fire support.

ANY Lance can only be better if it was supported by Schreks and LRM carriers.

>>719197663
>>719197738
I don't get what your objection is here. It seems like both of you are agreeing with the post you responded to. Tanks being heavy is why they accelerate slowly. They have a respectable top speed, but if they get droned before they can get up to speed it doesn't do them any good.

>>719197652
There's a bunch of people in here talking about mecha that have 4-6 legs, which you obviously didn't read before replying. Most people who say this type of shit don't. They just want to spout off some redditard midwit shit that they think makes them sound smart, obviously missing the fact that there are no profiles here and nobody will remember if you sounded smart.

>>719197804
It's still something that takes time to build and get running to an appreciable level. All the manufacturing the US did have has spent nearly a century being shipped out to various 3rd world shit holes and left behind decrepit neighborhoods and communities in their wake. Detroit used to be a boom town with all kinds of jobs related to the car industry. It's a shadow of its former glory these days as businesses left for greener, and cheaper, pastures overseas or to different states.

>>719179043 (OP)
No amount of cope and seethe will ever make tanks as cool as mechs. Realismfags can bitch and whine, but you are posting on mechchad board.

>>719181447
>his mech suit doesn't jam drones just by running the engine
lol

>>719189981
dont forget to mention the abysmal matchmaking and that the game is almost dead in the beginner ranks

>>719197946
Intel and Micron alone could supply the US military. They have enough capacity for that, even more if they stopped selling commercially.

>>719197915
>Tanks are heavy and will accelerate much more slowly than all but the heaviest mecha.
This is what we are talking about, because its completely wrong, any mech will be heavier than a tank. If a mech is lighter than a tank that means its got really fucking flimsy armor that you will be able take out with mere infantry weapons making the entire thing completely redundant

>>719197890
Drones were a thing since WW2. It's practical mini-drones you talk about.
Tech advance is slowed down to prevent it spiralling out of control.
>propellers would be way too small and whatever cargo they’re carrying would be way heavy
Small RC jet planes were a thing for decades too. This really isn't anything new. Not even portable computation necessary.

Tankfags were BTFO by the Ukraine and Gaza war and will never recover.

>>719197902
>>719197660
Truly, one of the best parts of BT is that it realizes combined arms is best.

>>719197915
>It seems like both of you are agreeing with the post you responded to.
That anon seemed like he was saying because they're walkers they can move around faster. Unless you're doing sci-fi bullshit in some way.

>>719179043 (OP)
if that were the case, then super-heavy tanks would be a straight improvement over the average MBT.
there are many reasons those were a meme technology that never caught on. they were very expensive, impossible to mass produce, unwieldy as hell and could still be disabled by conventional weapons.
mechs would suffer from most of the same problems. why build a mech when you can build 20 tanks instead?
and if you want something that can traverse rough terrain or low gravity that tracks can't handle, a spider mech is a much better idea than a bipedal one.

>>719198116
>any mech will be heavier than a tank
This assumption is completely unfounded. There are loads of mech designs that are lighter than tanks.

>If a mech is lighter than a tank that means its got really fucking flimsy armor
A light mech isn't designed to protect itself with heavy armor, but by being smaller and harder to hit.

>that you will be able take out with mere infantry weapons
There are plenty of already existing vehicles lighter than a tank that are capable of withstanding infantry weapons, like APCs and armored cars.

>>719197241
>Maybe if one had nothing to live for, or has chosen, or been chosen to work for actually unjust and unironically dishonorable people.
there is no government on this planet worth fighting and dying for
in general, soldiery and the propaganda surrounding it is a convenient way for powerful men to convince others to die in place of them
there haven't been 'just and honorable' people commanding men to war for a very long time, possibly ever
it was one thing millennia ago when men fought to prevent the assimilation of obliteration of their tribe but since that stopped being the primary cassus belli it has mostly been around money, resources and political power that the men fighting do not possess and never will
they choose to give up their lives for other men who do not value them as anything but numbers
frankly i find this kind of social engineering very impressive; to convince a man to give up his very life for something should be extremely difficult, but manage to convince him it's for his family (it's not) and he'll at least think about it because that's the kind of personal connection necessary for a man to be willing to die

>>719198415
Anti-war spoils laws ruined soldiering.

>>719198318
>why build a mech when you can build 20 tanks instead?
Why build a tank when you can build 20 light mecha instead?

>spider mech
Now this is really where it's at.

>>719198379
>There are loads of mech designs that are lighter than tanks.
Which like i said makes them redundant, Armor exists for a reason.
>but by being smaller and harder to hit.
well you fucked up with that when you made a 15 feet tall target.
>There are plenty of already existing vehicles lighter than a tank that are capable of withstanding infantry weapons, like APCs and armored cars.
All of those things can be damaged by infantry weapons though, which is my point, you are making something that will be as costly as tank without the survivability , if i can plink the thing to death with small arms fire, its not going to be that threatening.

>>719198539
Because you want the thing to be able to survive, and a profile that tall is going to make it an easy target. And before you bring up it being able to move, Lol no, we can't even make highly maneuverable power armor, how is a mech going to do better

>>719182483
One of the AC games ends with you getting swarmed and killed by suicide drones

>>719198854
Which AC game?

>>719198854
Nexus. Technically you could have survived that encounter I suppose since it just fades to black instead of showing anything one way or another.

Some absolutely delusional retards in these mech threads, as usual. You'd have to be to seriously try to rationalize a concept that is obviously fantasy.

>>719198415
>there is no government on this planet worth fighting and dying for
Not to point at anyone, but whose fault is it exactly that the people don't exercise their agency? Must one pay people to live now too?
>there haven't been 'just and honorable' people commanding men to war for a very long time, possibly ever
On the contrary, such people were in many places. Admittedly fewer than their other peers, but men who want to lead by example have always existed and still do.
>it was one thing millennia ago when men fought to prevent the assimilation of obliteration of their tribe
It's always there, evne if it's sidelined. It may not be primary, until it is. Like in, say, modern day Britain.
>frankly i find this kind of social engineering very impressive; to convince a man to give up his very life for something should be extremely difficult, but manage to convince him it's for his family (it's not) and he'll at least think about it because that's the kind of personal connection necessary for a man to be willing to die
I'm not sure all the people that can be counted as major participants now, i.e. contract or merc work, actually care about their families. Some do, but others...

>>719198963
>He RAN

>>719199000
I should. It's not like you'll ever get any better.

>>719199107
Yeah go with those training wheels of yours, see if you can avoid dying accidentally

>>719198539
A "light mech" is still going to be super expensive and will have armor that will not stop ammo made to defeat tanks. And will have weapons compared to a tank. Aka there is no improvement here. The most "realistic" tank vs mech scenario would be benefits and drawbacks without having an argument on what is better. But most mechfags want to compare biplanes with jetfighters.
Total Annihilation and now Beyond all Reason did this perfectly as a game.
Mechs were more agile and could climb up some slopes better. Tanks had a better topspeed and durability.

>>719198184
Buddy!

>>719198740
A target that's 15 feet tall but slim is less likely to get droned than a big chonker tank, especially if the 15-footer has arms loaded with machine guns and microwave cannons to shoot down drones.

>you are making something that will be as costly as tank without the survivability
This is what I'm not so sure about. A light mech should be easier to mass-produce than a tank, meaning economies of scale will drive the cost down. The technology will also get cheaper as it matures, but people won't actually give mecha a chance because existing MIC companies are tankfags that already invested in the infrastructure to build tanks and they'll lose market share if mecha become a thing.

So people hold mecha to standards that tanks would never be held to so they can preserve the status quo money flow. The first tanks were pretty shitty and it required years to get them up to par, and if mecha were introduced they'd likely be the same way, but people are expecting mecha to dominate the battlefield utterly from the get-go, and if they can't do this, the trankies will say "see, tanks are superior because our vehicle that's had decades of testing is more reliable than new technology that's never been used before!"

Why don't mechs exist irl ffs

>>719199443
>A "light mech" is still going to be super expensive
source: dude trust me

>>719199631
No reason to

>>719199631
Tech isn't there yet. Getting a robot to walk and not stumble over itself is still a challenge.

>>719199631
Yes they do. >>719199496 i mean look it's easy. They will be as cheap as drones. While doing backflips like jackie chan but also feature deathstar lasers! All in a man sized package- oh i mean 15 foot. Which is totally not an easy target to hit for a drone... cause. Well my dad works at Nintendo!

>>719199631
Robotics are not really there yet, and there is no real need for them either. Just making a robot that can walk bipedally in a varied environment reliably is something that has only rather recently been sort of achieved. There is also no real battlefield role for a mech at least not within the current framework of warfare.

>>719199808
>Which is totally not an easy target to hit for a drone
They're harder to hit than a clunker and don't cost as much. That alone is enough to make them useful even if they don't completely replace tanks, as much as I'd like them to.

>While doing backflips like jackie chan but also feature deathstar lasers!
Why is it so fucking impossible for tankniggers not to strawman the fuck out of any counterargument? I have to admit, the main reason I'd like mecha to completely replace tanks is literally just because tankfags are so annoying and insufferable.

>>719199834
I've seen some walking drones with guns on them but those seem to be more just show off pieces than practical. And you might as well use one of those little bomb drones and strap a M249 on it at that point.

>>719182425
this is biggest brainrot military take ever
>>719183692
50call+ can penetrate meh ,
its all about silhouette of vehicle
the smaller it is in compare to weight and space inside the better, and a box is optimal shape to armor
humanoid shape is nightmare to armor
if mehs will ever exist it will look bug like, ant, spider etc

people do not get how much a 20mm can penetrate (and you can put up to 30mm autocanon on top of anything)

>>719179043 (OP)
FUCKING ENTER

>>719200106
why aren't blimps a thing

>>719199631
Countered by drones

How much pay would there be in mech piloting?

>>719186240
main reason why 2 tracks is optimal is torque and engine power distribution
every gimick, every ability adds weight,
and the less things that can break the better
and the repair and field mainaince ...

>>719199631
Basically what's going to have to happen is that some mech company is going to spring up producing exclusively spider mecha since that's the model that even tankfags have a hard time arguing against, and that'll be the basis for the mech industry.

>>719200162
You shitting me? Tanks get countered even harder by drones.

>>719200281
Mechs got countered before even being invented

>>719200149
Basically just the Hindenburg disaster. There's no actual reason not to use them if you use helium. They excel at reconnaissance because they can linger over a target for longer than any other aircraft type.

*is stronger than both in you are path*

>>719200401
>I know this is bad without ever having actually tested it
Which prophecy school did you go to, anon?

>>719200497
The perfect smug animu grill weapon.

>>719179043 (OP)
Mechas are at their best when they are all about urban mobility over raw firepower.

Brigador fixed the whole Mech vs Tank thing
>Tanks
>Most jobs can be done, and probably done best, with a pair of treads. Been that way for a long time, and I suspect will stay so for a while yet. Spacers were going to show us dirt eaters how it's done with those ball-treads, but even with all their tech best they could manage is a hefty trade-off.
>Unlike with most mechs and powersuits, tank crews don't need cranial jacks. Some are still wired up for it depending on the service and role - I've seen plenty of Betkas in the single driver config for example - but that's not the norm. Partly has to do with jack incompatibility being common enough in the service, partly because you can still make a good tank crew without it.
>Agravs will never be as reliable. And much as I love a good pair of legs, tanks are simpler to build and maintain. It's why they're the mainstay of any military that sees regular combat and has a budget.

>>719200458
Wouldn't they still be really vulnerable to being shot at? They're a big slow target. It's a cool aesthetic though and I'm sure they could have other uses.

>>719200704
>Mechs
>Mechs take considerably more maintenance than anything on wheels or treads. But when the War Council gets to see a new heavy legs unit put their foot straight through the top of a tank, it shakes the part of their brain that worries about money. I like to think the first mech field test was sort of like when the military first got real hot and bothered for helicopters back on Earth. They want the slick new stuff, who cares what it costs?
>Mechs are the standard-bearers, the cavalry, and the commanders all in one. Being taller means overlapping fields of fire with shorter vehicles, better top kill and defilade, and less trouble with comms in dense urban areas on account of the antennae height. Put them hull down ("kneeling") and you've got great defensive fire, perfect for covering infantry and powersuits.
>Despite how long mechs have played an active role in combat and police work, there's a segment of the Brass that still argues against them hard. They're "walking targets" that are "too expensive to maintain" and "damage roads and infrastructure because they don't broadly distribute their weight." Ok maybe some of that's true, but bureaucrats don't know what a psych-out it is to get stared down by a heavy. Gets you that fear deep in your reptile brain, sympathetic nervous system response. Also the part that worries about money.

>>719200734
They also have by far the highest maximum altitude of any aircraft type. You can't shoot what isn't in range.

>>719200625
It was revealed to me in a dream

>>719199975
The reason i'm here is to troll the fck out of you man. Mechfags always try to win their "le mech is better" with sci-fi asspulls. If you want sci-fi asspulls you should allow the tank to do it too. But then its suddenly not "realistic." Thats what these shit arguments always lead to.
I also said before. It's best to keep it as both having up and downsides.
Armored core and Gundam also litterally have a Tank (mech) Which is litterally just a tank with a human shaped turret. And nothing to that human turret has benefits compared to a conventional turret other than coolness factor.
Other than maybe being able to use both arms to shoot at different targets. But in that case the joints are vurnerable weakspots and supporting it mechanicly would lead to a reduction to armor. Aka compromises i mentioned before.

>>719197241
No one is taking you seriously when you talk about war and avatarfag with an anime pic dude

>>719200864
WOOOOO

>>719200625
I made it up.

>>719200959
Go get em champ...

>>719199631
Archons running this prison planet hate fun.

>>719200885
Avatarfags put pictures all the time. I just put what I've felt is appropriate to the topic.
If somebody isn't taking something seriously, that's their preference. I don't gain or lose anything.

>>719200972
>>719200859
Oh ok then. But I thought you should know, I just had a tarot card reader give me a reading about this and he said mecha wreck tanks.

>>719200864
>If you want sci-fi asspulls you should allow the tank to do it too
What novel mechanics could you even do with a tank though? Let it do a barrel roll like the Landmaster?

>>719179294
>has 11 barrels (of hell)
heh... nothin personnel...

>>719200864
Yeah where's the sci-fi hover tank that also has boosters in the side of it or something? The idea of a solo crewed tank is possible too if you have computers to do some things for you. If you apply the same logic you could easily have mecha quality tech in the size of a tank.

>>719200458
What really killed the Hindenburg was its aluminium coating. Hydrogen fires aren't great but the whole airship was essentially painted with thermite.
With proper safety precautions, hydrogen is fine as a ballast. A great ballast, even, because we have so much of it available.

>>719201095
Does he have a license to own and use tarot cards, sir?

hoverbros

>>719201361
I never liked that tank.

>>719201361
Noozhny boepripasy!

>>719201296
He doesn't need a license because he's not a britbong.

I like the "one-man IFVs without the troop carrying capacity but better at close combat" interpretation of mechs as seen in Heavy Gear.
Most other mech media just portraits them as "better tanks", in HG tanks are super fucking scary to go against unless you have a massive range advantage and ATGMs, which other vehicles can carry too anyway.

*gets hit by emp and shits the bed in the middle of a fight and dies*

>>719201548
Bro. Your weapon groups?

>>719201217
Jet boosters that make them instant turn, flip and roll. Yes. Give them impossible mobility like a racecar. (Yes if a mech is allowed scifi weightless movement the tank can too.)
You litterally cannot have a winning argument here cause the basis (mechs) starts with sci-fi.
So it all leads to a compromise which is usually. The tank will have more armor or weapons cause it distributes weight better while the mech is more nimble cause of legs.
And then it all pipes down to STR vs DEX 2.0

>>719201596
The only weapon group i need is "Fire All".

>>719201217
Literally anything you could do with a Mech could also be applied to a tank. Lighter materials? Single Pilot Crew? Multiple weapons? Limited flight? After a point you're just arguing the humanoid shape is better than a shaped brick.

>>719179568
at least 4 lasers on that one

>>719201548
bigger than power armour, but still small enough to be monstrously versatile. it's a great format.

>>719201668
Humanoid shape beats a tank in CQC.

>>719201780
WHY ARE WE DOING JUDO

>>719201780
Maybe, but you'd have to be in range for that to be true. Most of warfare is trying to hit the other guy from safety. Maybe in a city I guess?

>>719201237
Tell the men the cavalry's arrived.

>>719201909
>bomb the shit out of the city via air
>scout with drones
>roll tanks in with infantry
any mechs hiding in the city better be fucking dead

>>719202017
Combined arms win every time

>>719179043 (OP)
I think it's funny that Mechwarrior kind of accidentally proves how bad mechs are as a battle platform in game due to being too slow, soft, and large relative to how accurate and destructive the weapons are, hence devolving into peeking wars and deathballs. But I guess that is a consequence of being unable to abstract all of the tabletop stuff into an action game with light sim elements.

>>719201668
>Lighter materials
Tanks don't benefit from lighter materials though. They have to have the strongest possible armor because they're huge targets and they can't absorb hits and protect other units if they don't have it, and that means heavy armor.

>Single pilot crew
This could be achieved on either a tank or a mech through AI assistance, so this is just a wash.

>Multiple weapons
Mecha have at least 2 arms, sometimes 4, and the possibility of shoulder cannons. In the case of a spider mech, they can also mount more weapons on the knees. A mech will always have more places to put weapons than a tank.

>Limited flight
I don't think this is going to happen for either mecha or tanks, so another wash. But a light mech might be designed for large numbers of them to be carried by aircraft, which means they can deploy in tactically superior positions to tanks. Even the biggest military transport aircraft can only carry 2 full-size MBTs, but the same aircraft can deploy legions of mecha, and a light mech can be carried by lighter aircraft, which opens up the opportunity to haul more of them.

So mecha win in at least 2 out of 4 categories, and the other 2 are even, but the mech still wins in the last category if you count their ability to be airlifted.

>>719201835
Ran out of ammo

In battletech, tanks are still very much used and useful. It's a pros and cons thing.
Pros
>Comparatively cheap (This is the main reason)
>Smaller/low profile
>Easier to operate
>Cant fall down
>Little/no heat worries
Cons
>Much less maneuverable
>Slower
>Easier to kill
>Less weapons/adapability
Also remember that BT has a non-real tech called Myomer Fiber that are pretty much hyper efficient synthetic muscle and is entirely responsible for battlemechs being viable.

>>719202094
>>Mecha have at least 2 arms, sometimes 4, and the possibility of shoulder cannons. In the case of a spider mech, they can also mount more weapons on the knees. A mech will always have more places to put weapons than a tank.
Which will make them larger and heavier, and physics kicks in. The entire problem with mech arguments is you guys are somehow hand waving physics away. Their movement alone would induce incredible wear and tear on internal parts. They would most likely have the same kind of durability as a jet, and those things are in constant maintenance.

>>719199631
I wouldn't be allowed to pilot one so they can't be allowed to exist because that would be worse than NTR.

>>719202061
Yeah the tabletop was never balanced around being able to pinpoint some guy's CT to the point where pretty much everyone only runs armor ON the CT.

>>719202143
arent tanks fast as fuck irl

>>719202245
You dare to compare this to that?!

>>719196424
video games use mechs wrong, they should be like humans, lay low in cover, shoot from weird angles, stand tall when you need good visibility then immediately go back down

>>719202245
Based

>>719200864
The mechfags in this thread are hand waving fucking physics. Their arguments are so fucking dumb.

Okay the real reason? I think they look BADASSS

>>719201548
>pic related and friends start rolling down the hill towards you
>fire everything
>yellow armor
>restart mission and pick snub cannon
Tanks in that game were terrifying

>>719197806
Are you really expecting the /int/jeet to have an IQ above 70?

>>719199496
>A target that's 15 feet tall but slim is less likely to get droned than a big chonker tank
No they are not, do you know how fast a missile goes? If a mech can move faster than a missile the pilot is fucking dead.

>>719202143
I especially like Myomer because it's a technology that kind of doesn't work well in a tank profile. It works as an explanation that isn't too fantastical.

>>719202258
They're really only slow in BT because of how vehicle creation rules work. To have a decent speed you need a high engine rating. Most tanks top out at around 50 kph in BT. That's not TOO far off from reality.

>>719202392
(x) Talk to Lilith.

>>719202143
>no heat worries
LOL, tanks produce enough waste heat to have a fucking BBQ on their hull. Part of the reason they're getting killed so fast by drones in Ukraine is because they're super easy to find through IR imaging.

>>719202258
They're pretty fast at speed, but slow to accelerate to their top speed.

>>719197615
Enormously. Mechs are only a thing because they can move faster, be retrofitted more easily and are just more adaptable to more terrain types. In their element tanks fucking shred mechs because they are smaller, cheaper and just as well armed.

>>719202143
Also remember that Battletech has limitations on how much shit you can throw in a dropship and thus you kind of want to get the most bang for your buck in your invasion force. So tanks make for great defensive forces where you already have the homefield advantage and can lean into your numerical superiority as well as topographical knowledge.

>>719202094
>multiple weapons
Front of turret, top of turret, sides of turret, back of turret, frontal hull, back of the hull. Come on let's not pretend you only need joints to put a weapon on.
>>719202258
Nor are mechs kek.
>>719202328
It's always the same. Making up rules that do not exist and then prevent the other from using the same logic.

>>719202258
They're not slow but they are slower than battlemechs. M1 abrhams has a top speed of ~45 mph and the tanks in BT tend to be a bit heavier but a bit slower. Battlemechs range from anywhere to a bit slower than that to 2-3x as fast, but probably average about 20% faster if I had to guess?

>>719202469
I'm talking about BT tanks, since the op posted a mech from BT.

>>719202328
>>719202239
>midwit reddit faggots think they know physics
Basically every problem you have with mecha is also a problem with tanks.

>Which will make them larger and heavier, and physics kicks in.
Nigger, tanks are already way too fucking heavy. Most current MBTs can't even cross most bridges because they're fat fucks that need to lose some weight. How is that a superior design?

>>719202469
No heat worries in the context of Battletech. They don't have to worry about heat unless they have a Fusion engine IIRC.

>no titanfall mechs
>no 2142 mechs

>>719202469
>They're pretty fast at speed, but slow to accelerate to their top speed.
Shouldn't they be drastically better at accelerating than mechs since threads are basically superior for everything compared to legs?

>>719202239
in thoughtful, considerate mecha anime, whenever they're not fighting, they're being repaired.
Patlabor, Gundam, and even in super robot shows like Mazinger Z.

>>719202547
>It's always the same. Making up rules that do not exist and then prevent the other from using the same logic.
This is pure fucking projection. You reddit niggers literally just did this with tanks' weight, acting like weight is only a problem when a mech is too heavy, but it's just fine with tanks.

>>719202619
>Basically every problem you have with mecha is also a problem with tanks.
My problem with mechs is that it's impossible to armor them due to their much higher surface to weight ratio and joints requiring some degree of exposure to function

that's not a problem with tanks

>>719202619
>>Basically every problem you have with mecha is also a problem with tanks.
No it is not, there is no 15 foot tall tanks.
>Nigger, tanks are already way too fucking heavy. Most current MBTs can't even cross most bridges because they're fat fucks that need to lose some weight. How is that a superior design?
Square cube law, the big body allows it to more effectively distribute its weight, the legs on a mech would would cause them to shatter from any real forces involved.

Pic related is the REAL reason nobody would use mechs
Higher maneuverability, higher amount of weapons, better armor, better speed

You can even put arms on them if you really want

>>719186168
It's not a matter of realism, mechas are fucking retarded because we already have better guns in real life, it isn't something like magic.

We must invent energy shields to save mechs

>Tanknigger thread #1500099
Sage for not vidya

>>719202619
>basically every problem you have with mecha is also a problem with tanks
Why do you somehow pretend this argument works in your benefit.
>Most current MBTs can't even cross most bridges because they're fat fucks that need to lose some weight. How is that a superior design?
Lets put all that weight on two legs. That will somehow make it easier to cross the bridge.
I know your next argument will be. "B-but it can jump."

>>719202881
what if someone puts energy shields on a tank?

>>719202928
just swim nigga

>>719195431
just use the prime you fag-
>AC20 changed to be a doubleshot
welp

>>719202871
The problem with helis in settings like BT is that weapons with effectively 0 travel time such as laser exist and make shooting down helis much easier.

>>719202674
>threads are basically superior for everything
LOL no, they're certainly not superior for negotiating tough terrain. A tank has more horsepower in its engine, hence its higher top speed, but a light mech will have superior power-to-weight ratio, meaning it can accelerate faster. For sudden dodge maneuvers a mech will be superior, but it'll never match the speed of a tank.

>>719202801
Distributing your weight better doesn't mean shit if the bridge can't support your total weight.

>>719202871
Insane fuel consumption. BTW these are far more threatening to tanks than mecha.

>>719202881
We don't even need this, just creating sacrificial armor will do just fine. The tankfags saying it's hard to armor a mech are mostly correct, but that doesn't mean you can't protect a mech, it just means you need to use a different approach. You need to get used to the idea that most armor panels on a mech are disposable and not intended to be permanent.

>>719202983
FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK

>>719179043 (OP)
>tankniggers are getting uppity again

>>719203030
yes but the heli can use it to shoot down the mechs just as easily, and from more angles

you can put a 360° laser on the bottom of the heli and have it just snipe mechs before they can align a shot

mechs aren't more armored than a heli, and they're more expensive

>>719202928
>Lets put all that weight on two legs.
No, let's design a lighter mech that won't fucking collapse the bridge because it didn't eat all the pizza in Italy.

Excuse me sirs why aren’t we just carpetbombing the entire fucking area

>>719203101
>Distributing your weight better doesn't mean shit if the bridge can't support your total weight.
actually it does, because most bridges can indeed handle its weight, All of its weight is not one a single point but distributed well, meanwhile a bipedal tank is going to be putting all its weight on two points which is more likely to crush whatever is under it

>>719203147
>mechs aren't more armored than a heli
Just like tanks aren't more armored than helis

>>719203101
>LOL no, they're certainly not superior for negotiating tough terrain.
Mechs are crap for rough terrain by the way, they sink in anything that's not rock
you can't use a mech in a desert, or anything with soil or anything with the slightest bit of water or mud, tanks navigate those easily

mechs also topple over far before tanks do, and they can only climb something like a granite mountain because otherwise they'll just rip whatever they're trying to hold onto down

>>719195971
the supporting structure would still need to be steel or kevlar
just dont give it any armor if you want to minimize weight

>>719203279
mechs have lower surface to weight ratio than either tanks or helis so they're worse armored than either tanks or helis
>>719203101
>Insane fuel consumption
As opposed to mechs who have 25 different engines in their structure and no space to store fuel?

>>719194186
you still run into the problem of APS alone being 100x more expensive to operate than a drone with a shaped charge stuck to it

>>719203101
>LOL no, they're certainly not superior for negotiating tough terrain
a mech is not going to do better then any vehicle would for rough terrain, all that dust and stuff is still going to get inside the mechs internals just as it would any vehicle. This is magical thinking

Why arent there any drone vidya?

>>719195971
>Make most of the mech out of plastic?
Your mech now gets taken down by a butt naked african with an RPG-7
billion dollar wasted against a weapon they bought for a crate of bananas

>>719203001
Hahhahaha with tactical onepiece bathingsuit.
>>719203185
>No, let's design a lighter mech that won't fucking collapse but wont protect it against anything above an autocanon anymore.
>>719203360
Nu-uh! My mech can have a magical powersource while your tank must have a realistic engine.

>>719179294
Left has 2 Large Lasers and 4 Medium Lasers, and it is a fucking Oven if used for too long.
Right is a Abraams.
And i take even M60 Patton over the Abraams

>>719203387
>you still run into the problem of APS alone being 100x more expensive to operate than a drone with a shaped charge stuck to it
APS is actually very cheap, its just a directed explosive toward any incoming object.

>>719203068
I want to like HG2 but I can't get past how awful the UI/gear building is compared to the first game.

>take 4 mech beam swords
>put them on the rotors of a heli
>take a mech engine
>put it on the same heli
>have heli piloted by the scion of an ancient lineage of samurai warriors
>cut through 500 mechs in a single sweep

Can anyone tell me why this wouldn't work?

>>719202871
Mechs fill a good niche of bringing fire support for infantry where armor cant go, and where air support is limited. Mountains, jungles, and other really fucked terrain you cant really roll a tank through. Think avatar where the good guys tried to save humanity

>>719203147
You can only up-armor and up-engine an atmospheric flying helicopter so much before it ceases to be able to fly. Even light mechs in battletech have enough armour to withstand multiple salvos of laser.

>>719203601
>That spin
FASTER

>>719181447
>what is AMS and ECM
The wonders of battletech is that they made sure drones are shit thanks to countermeasures over years of autistic warfare.

>>719203697
I had to fix it because it was causing physics fuckery.

>>719198027
I can't wait for us to discover our own version of Minovsky particles so we go back to line of sight dumb-fire weapons as the only reliable weapons of war.

>>719203654
the strongest weapon they had in avatar were their helis though, they piloted them easily through jungles and mountains and they did far more damage than the mechs

>>719179043 (OP)
>put tank in space
>It fails to shoot in any direction
Woooooooopw

>>719203360
Whats the point of this when your whole argument is just "mechs dont exist so they're worse"? Why are you even here in a thread talking about mech video games if you're just going to stick to what is possible IRL right now?

>>719203678
yeh but you can only up armor and up engine a mech so much before it sinks into the ground so they'd still get one-upped in terms of armor by mechs

>>719203462
So exactly like a tank? Because a tank costs a hundred million while a single Javelin costs 40k

>>719203824
no the whole argument is, mechs don't exist because they are worse
the issue with mechs is that no matter the level of advancement, it will always be more efficient to simply put the things you'd want to put on a mech on a different platform

battlemechs are such the pinnacle of tech in their setting that they have been used for 500 years, and anybody who doesn't have them gets bullied by those who do have them

there are various reasons for this, some of them realistic some of them not, but the TL;DR is maneuverability and versatility

>>719202728
>, acting like weight is only a problem when a mech is too heavy, but it's just fine with tanks.
You guys need to learn fucking square cube law, jesus god damn christ, that is the entire problem with mechs. Any bipedal legs on a 15 foot behemoth is going to fucking crumble from its own god damn weight. No tanks have that issue.

>>719203292
>Mechs are crap for rough terrain by the way, they sink in anything that's not rock
This only applies to large bipedal mecha, like basically every tankfag argument. Change anything about this scenario and their logic collapses.

>>719203481
>but wont protect it against anything above an autocanon anymore.
Not really seeing the problem with this. APCs aren't protected against heavier weaponry than autocannons and they do fine. People need to stop seeing a mech as being intended to 1v1 a tank and start seeing them as more like IFVs, except for a select few super-heavy mech models that will be very uncommon.

>>719203462
>mecha cost a billion dollars per unit because I said so
>a mech mostly made of plastic, even
>also mecha don't have anti-missile systems but tanks do, again because I said so

>>719203775
Yes but helis dont have line of sight all the time due to the Forest canopy, and are susceptible to AA missiles, the heli can wreak havoc until an enemy infantry squad in the jungle gets uppity with a stinger, then our grunts and a mech comes in to mop up

>>719197574
Myomer is being developed.

>>719203880
Abrams tanks have only been taken down by javelins like 2 times, and both those times it was caused by Arabs being retarded and leaving the hatch open
Mechs would cost 20x what a tank costs and get taken down guaranteed by a single shot to a leg joint

>>719203794
Just put a turret on the bottom too
ez

>>719203970
>>a mech mostly made of plastic, even
How is your stupid ass even suggesting this, do you know how fucking weak plastic is, i could defeat the god damn mech with a pistol if you make it out of that. Hell i could beat it to death with a mere baseball bat.

>>719203923
not if your mecha are borne of adapted space station construction machinery

>>719198415
Perfect resume of the fucking Clans

>>719201361
Will never be cool as Battlezone tanks, and they are literally from the cold war era.

>>719179043 (OP)
Left is heavy fire support. Right is an armoured brick/spearhead. Point is by themselves they get taken out by drones, IEDs, and whatever. Both need infantry/PA support.
Also
>posts whatever mech that is
>not BF2142 mechs
Those are far more viable and likely to be developed.

>>719204065
Mech's in space make incredible sense, Now that is an area one could not argue against them. Although i imagine legs would be pointless on them.

>>719203923
Most of the time the more "realistic" mech settings (ie battletech and the like, not gundam) there are reasons to use mechs, and tanks, and helicopters. They all have pros and cons and there are reasons that people aren't just fielding 100% tanks or 100% helicopters. Its the same reason that modern day war still sees a variety of platforms as well.

>>719203991
yeh but that same stinger destroys a mech
>>719203970
nobody in this thread is talking about power armor, which in fact IS a viable technology and being researched, the main issue there is that we don't have a power source yet, but they'll also never be any bigger than 8, maybe 10ft

>a mech mostly made of plastic, even
I was responding to an anon who said that the mech's armor would be made mostly out of plastic, reading comprehension is a trainable skill

A tank can also have passive anti-missile systems in the form of armor, mechs can't because joints will always be exposed to some degree

>>719203842
A helicopter absolutely has less armour at any size than a walking building what the fuck are you even trying to say?

>>719204134
legs let you orient yourself without spending propellant.

>>719204143
yeh but the same reason the modern military sees a variety in platforms, and mechs aren't even hypothetically considered is the same reason why you just wouldn't want to build them, there's inherently too many issues with mechs, you simply can't have a mech that's not vulnerable to a common soldier in a realistic setting

>>719204197
Right but you dont need legs to achieve that either, could have like some kind of mechanical clamps instead.

>>719204179
>walking building
which sinks into the ground
you're talking about making something heavier than a friggin Ratte and putting it on 2 legs

>>719204272
The issue with mechs is that they require you to defy reality to get them in a workable state on a planet with gravity like ours.

>>719204172
The stinger destroys everything I agree, but the mech like I said is filling a niche of going where tanks cant go, giving heavy fucking firepower, being resistant to small arms/heavy machine guns, and hopefully if designed with reactive armor can handle smaller explosive weaponry. open field is where the tank is king I agree, in fucked terrain its mech (please if anyone working with darpa is reading this just let me convince you already fuck fuck fuck)

>>719204272
Yes you're right mechs aren't viable currently glad we hashed this out.

>>719204003
>Mechs would cost 20x what a tank costs
And a tank costs 100x what a horse does and yet somehow they still managed to reppace traditional cavalry anyway.

We're talking about galaxy spanning governments in the 31st century what point is there in bringing up today's economic and technical limitations?

>>719204283
but by the time you're making giant space colonies with the aid of proto-mecha, you might as well give them some limbs styled like legs for when they're working on the interior hull.

>>719204379
>The stinger destroys everything I agree,
not what I said anon, reading comprehension is a trainable skill might want to work on it
Tanks are mostly fine when stingers are involved, especially in more futuristic settings which have mechs since such a setting naturally would require significantly more powerful engines that are drastically more efficient than ours (basic requirement for mechs to function) so tanks would require less space for engines or fuel and could be better armored

And here's part of the issue: mechs aren't resistant to heavy machineguns, a typical squad level heavy machinegun would do catastrophic damage if aimed at the leg joint of a mech

>>719179043 (OP)
The big fucking ball is stronger than either.
Tempest Rising may have been kind of meh but these fucking things are so silly to use.

Having enemy army just scramble away once you got like 5 or 6 of these bad boys rolling towards them is funny as fuck.

>>719204436
31st century chinese drones

>>719204436
a galaxy spanning government in the 31st century wouldn't need mechs, they would just send down nanobot swarms to disassemble the weapons of their opponents

>>719203952
>muh square cube law
You niggers act like we haven't heard this from you incessantly. It's like a cult mantra at this point. Even when people propose viable strategies to deal with this like building a mech out of lighter materials or using multipeds, you just disregard it and say any advancement you could apply to a mech would be better on a tank without any actual justification.

>>719203524
the sensors required to make that work arent cheap though, nor is maintaining them.
if it were to cost $10k to build the system and then you loose it to $1k worth of drones, then you have a problem

>>719204425
and they won't ever be viable
they're the nunchaku of machines
cool, but pointless in war, no matter how advanced your materials get, a nunchaku is never the correct choice

>>719193848
Both those countries have great EW. It's not enough.

>>719204621
what could defeat this? why don't we just roll in giant killer balls

>>719204058
>what are nano-coatings

>>719204003
>Mechs would cost 20x what a tank costs
There are like 50 posts of people disputing this. Tankfags always say mechfags don't know physics, but after all the posts against this that tankfags have ignored, it looks like tankfags don't know basic literacy.

>>719204003
Tankfag, there is a reason of why legs in battletech are reinforced.

>>719204641
>>719204661
they tried that, only to meet ECM, EMP and Nukes, all during the Amaris Coup and the first two succession wars.
Also drones aren't indestructible, even fish nets can do the job, and AMS exists, as Laser Guided AMS.

>>719204672
if you can build the mech out of the futuristic lightweight material, why aren't you building your tank out of it as well?
you still have the exact same issue

and if we get super light materials why not just build futuristic hovercraft instead?

>>719179043 (OP)
myomer (the artificial muscles used in those mechs) is magic so they can carry more weapons and armor ton for ton than a tank
that particular mech's gimmick is that it's fire control systems are so advanced it can down jets with its autocannons

>>719204661
But in this specific instance, those governments signed a piece of paper saying that they pinky promise to only use mechs because they went too hard on the drones & supernukes in the last couple of wars and kept blowing up the planets that they were trying to conquer.
Also because they're retards with ego-problems but that's a different matter entirely.

>>719204840
>there is a reason of why legs in battletech are reinforced.
yeh but you can't reinforce a leg joint to the same level as even an armored car, it simply won't be able to move if you did
joints are just an extreme weak point on any vehicle, it's why we generally try to avoid making them on military vehicles
like you don't see swivel-vehicles in any serious military task either

>>719204848
Battlezone 1 and 2 made the most awesome tanks ever thanks to cold war tanks and ancient aliens astronauts shit.

>>719204891
And myomer is getting researched right now for medical appliance.

>>719204945
And yet everything you said is null there realitard.

>>719204927
I mean that's an entirely different reason, if every government got together and for purely cultural reasons decided not to use mechs then that explains why armies are made out of mechs
but in such a setting you absolutely cannot have any other vehicle than mechs because those other vehicles would out-perform the mech at every function

>>719204827
The world is not ready for sphere based warfare.

>>719204763
Yep, there's no way that mechs could ever be viable, ever, no matter what.

>>719204621
for all the "mechs in space" fags out there
Balls in space > mechs in space

>>719205046
We don't really go into space anymore though.

>>719204621
You've got balls. I like balls.

>>719205046
Okay then find me a single use of a nunchaku in any war ever
Find me that and I'll agree with you mechs can have a use

How can Mech/Tank sisters even compete?

>>719205000
yeah, when electroactive polymers get to the point where it's practical to use them for locomotion, mechs will become viable IRL
for now they're mostly looking into using them in tactile displays and shit, not as artificial limbs

>>719204621
BALLS BALLS BALLS BALLS OF STEEL
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/IyXmYuZ0AQ0

>>719205192
wouldn't those also be limited mostly to power armor rather than actual mechs?
that or something like a logistical quad-leg dog of up to 500kg or so

>>719203774
it really was the coolest thing about the gundam universe, shame they had to bring the fucking drones back with retarded psycho bullshit.

>>719204590
I was imagining the mech was smaller, maybe around less titanfall size, use the Abram’s depleted uranium armor in high vulnerability areas mixed with ERA, which would cover most infantry squad weapons, also train pilots in always staying in cover like infantry, only moving from cover to cover, the engine part I dont know im not a engine expert, I was assuming they could’ve used a hybrid engine type

>>719182245
>fuck fighters
No need to tell me twice.

>>719205046
No one is saying mechs tech wont be possible in the future. But again its sci-fi shit arguments that can be applied to everything.
Most mech arguments just miss any logic. Its always just 1 upping with shit you saw in fiction.

>>719205260
if you watch some videos, there is already 3d printed nerves that reacts to electricity

>>719205084
We both know that it is cylinders in space.

>>719205292
the issue is that the Abram's depleted uranium armor is only really viable because of the simple shape of the Abrams which helps deflect weaponry, mechs have complex shapes
you're mostly not going to get a mech that stands up to heavy machinegun fire

what would work, and what is actively being researched and likely in like 100 years will be a core backbone of the military is power armor, something roughly human sized, but armored enough it stands up to most small arms and can carry around significantly larger loads than regular infantry

>>719204848
Because a tank and a mech are designed to use different tactical doctrines and a tank doesn't benefit from it. Tanks are meant to absorb hits, a mech is meant to be able to dodge. The futuristic lightweight material isn't intended to give an IFV-style mech super armor, only to give it basic armor protection because it can't properly use heavy armor like what you'd find on a tank.

>>719204840
Fly by wire drones

>>719205434
cylinders for large objects, balls for small agile objects that need precision movement
so you'd have the balls working on the cylinders to repair it

>>719205351
Anon, blue board!

>>719205260
why wouldn't you make battlemechs if it's feasible?
put AMS plus ECM on a Thunderbolt and it will hard counter anything a modern battlefield can throw at it while fucking up everything in its path

>>719181447
>both get fucked by a 5-ACK

>>719205489
you're not going to dodge hits on a mech though, legs at that size are pretty terrible at handling the momentum that comes with fast movement, and well, nothing dodges a spray of bullets
mechs also have higher profile so they're kinda extra vulnerable in that regard

if you want something exceedingly agile, you're better off with a small mecanum wheel armored car

>>719205413
Yes exactly that's the fucking point.
If mechfags were interested in talking about real life shit, they'd be talking about and playing games based on real life. They're not and they don't, which is why you don't see fags going into Flight sim or ARMA and throwing a bitchfit about how it would be better if there was a cool robot in it.
But every mecha thread has to be at least 70% arguing with retards who don't like mechs and don't want to play mech games.

>>719205543
That would make sense. Big fuck off cylinders for battleships that beam lasers and near relativistic particle beams at targets at insane ranges, with spherical support & maintenance craft docked along the ship.

Toroids for space stations.

>>719205769
and every mech thread has retards argue that mechs are totally going to be the future and realistic and what not
if you'd just treat them as a purely fantasy thing that looks cool then okay, but you don't do that, this thread is absolutely filled with mechfags arguing that in the future we will use mechs and how practical they are

>>719205615
mechs do have a place in a society that could make it
for example, mechs as the new gladiator fights would be utterly amazing, people would absolutely love watching mechs duke it out more than tanks
put enough limits on their weaponry that the pilots (maybe they're just brains in super heavily armored jars at that point) have a 99% survival rate and it would be the top show in the universe

>>719204747
Im pretty sure APS requires little to no maintence, its electronics, you arent giving them a wrench over. The point of these defense systems is to make it more expensive to defeat, if im loosing 1k worth of drones to destroy a single tank, i would start looking for cheaper alternatives.

>>719205510
cucked by AMS

>>719204672
Its not a cult mantra, you are just being retarded. You cannot defeat reality here. That is the problem. You are having to create magical inventions for you shit to work and then don't apply those magical technologies a tank. This is just stupid dude.

This faggot OP was kicked out of /tg/ and fucking /k/ after being proven wrong a million of times

>>719205475
Abram’s armor can stop a 50 cal no? But yeah if its going up against a 20mm no its dying(if its fighting 20mm its tank territory anyway). But yeah give the body a weird tank like slope design with biomechanical knowledge learned from medieval plate armor designers, and give the knees to upper thigh heavy armor.

Oh fuck yeah, power armor is probably way more realistic(reality its going to be all drones anyway) I hope if we go the power armor route its like the farewell to arms short

>>719204768
No they don't. The US stripped any EW and APS techs from what they provided to ukraine. And Ukraine is absolutely not rolling around on the most high end anti drone tech cause the US doesn't want their enemies to know how they work.

>>719206197
power armor actually ties into drones fairly logically
a soldier in power armor would be immune to civilian or insurgent drones for the most part and their drastically increased carry capacity would let them carry a pair of deployable drones around and act as their operator or else as a relay to their remote operator

while also still being able to function as a soldier and provide a human aspect to the battlefield

>>719206061
can't you overwhelm APS with dumb munitions 'then' send in a drone?

>>719206162
Bro is getting butt hurt when you put out basic fucking science at him. If what he says was even remotely doable we would be making mechs RIGHT NOW

>>719206393
You could but the moment a tank's aps goes off, that tank is supposed to start running, not sit there and be an open target. Regardless US has solved the drone problem years ago with THOR.

>>719206390
Battletech's got you covered. I do agree though. We've been steadily providing the average soldier more and more protection, this just seems like the next logical step.

>>719183692
only one of those is powered by pure fantasy
>fucking lasers

>>719206390
I love it, I really do wonder how they are going to cushion the impact from heavy fire though, like one shot from a big bullet would fuck the operator up

I really hope we see more shenanigans like Ukraine's container launched drones
that honestly felt like some true scifi shit, smuggle containers behind enemy lines, launch drones from them and wreck the enemy's supply lines

>>719204347
Sinking into the ground doesn't really matter when you walk by raising your legs. Wide feet like snowshoes (which a really, really large amount of mechs have) would mean you're just gonna be leaving impressions like a movie t rex.

Tanks themselves have shockingly small footprints and can churn themselves into the ground from their movement.

>>719179043 (OP)
>lets make an overly complicated mobility system that is also insanely fragile at the same time
>lets have 5 times the profile

>>719205000
personally, I'm still waiting for those flying cars

dronefag here
i rape both of you

>>719206061
>require little to no maintenance
hard kill systems use radars and other sensors to detect threats. they require significant maintenance
tanks also cost millions
$1k worth of drones to kill a multi-milion dollar target is one hell of a victory, especially at scale.

>>719206636
oh absolutely that's why they'd still need to maintain proper cover, they can't go walking out like they're space marines or something like that
just that you now have soldiers who don't have to worry nearly as much about some random insurgent with an AK which in turn also provides a sort of morale effect for the enemy to know that regular insurgents are not effective

it would also render soldiers highly resistant to shrapnel from IUD's which again, makes insurgencies far harder

>>719206580
that part of battletech is good, but I still think that we most likely won't see anything bigger than 10ft tall
worn power armor absolute yes, piloted mechs, likely no

>>719206762
the GTA3 Dodo is a perfect example of why it's a bad idea.
you want a flying car, get yourself a helicopter.

>>719206764
Drones are already solved, what they're best at is providing cover for endless wars where no one wins. "oh wow a drone killed ten gajillion tanks and dooblastasia is still not taken? reasonable, drones are so strong!"

>>719205146
>The nunchucks have never been used beyond a specticle weapon
>Therefore nothing else can ever become viable if it's not currently viable, regardless of future technological advancements
I can't say I've ever thought of it like that.

>>719188601
and mechs don't because you can't lose when you don't exist

>>719205046
>Woolley would rather see funds for satellites go to build a giant telescope for his Greenwich Observatory
This is really the core of the issue that a lot of people are ignoring. The guys who say this newfangled idea will never work want the money that would go into that idea to go to themselves instead.

>>719202757
>much higher surface to weight ratio
This is actually a good thing from a certain point of view. It makes a mech harder to armor, but it also means it dissipates heat more readily and doesn't accumulate heat like a tank does, which causes it to be easily visible to FLIR. A mech optimized for stealth can exploit this. So many people ignore the idea of a mech primarily intended for stealth operations, scouting and such. You'd think Kojimbo would have given us that at some point because he made a stealth series about mecha.

>>719206125
>plastic is a magical invention

>>719206162
>implying /k/ isn't the only board on this site even dumber than /pol/

>>719206851
no anon
i ship a box filled with drones to your supply depot and rape it
same with your refinieries
good luck defending against random drone strikes like that

>>719206865
nunchaku were used as an example of a weapon that will never be viable regardless of technological advancement
same thing with mechs, regardless of technological advancement they will never be useful due to the inherent flaws in their design

doesn't mean you can't get new weapon systems, there absolutely will be new weapon systems that will likely render even tanks obsolete, but anything capable of rendering a tank obsolete also renders a mech obsolete

like how modern guns rendering swords obsolete also rendered nunchaku obsolete

MAN i want to play War thunder but the devs are fucking jews with shit same for Enlisted and WoT its shame there is no good sim games (i already played Arma and Steel Fury: Kharkov 1942 (maybe i should redownload it)and i will not get GHPC)

>>719206996
Why do dronefags pretend only they would have drones? Okay, so the drones sent to your supply depots have killed your supplies too.

And while no one has any supplies at all, we've got the mechs still so we win. Mechs with drones on them.

>>719206971
why would you use a mech for stealth operations instead of a power armor soldier, they can do everything the mech can do and are even more stealthy

in fact, a power armor soldier would win from a mech most of the time, since they can get the drop on them and disable their joints

>>719206794
True true, if you havent already watch farewell to arms 2013, fun short about soldiers in power armor, it was fun talking to you but I still maintain that more reasonable sized mechs are possible enough autism, peace anon

>>719207112
>mechs
with no supplies

>>719207129
Battletech also have power armored troops too, and ofc >pic on which having sex and marrying one is the biggest ACHIEVEMENT Ever

>>719207129
This is just a guess, but maybe because a mech can fit more EW equipment on it than power armor?

>>719207129
The optimal balance is that power armor butchers infantry and other targets, but mechs butcher power armor.

Even in battletech where power armor is insanely good, you can still oneshot them with anti-tank weapons to their torso or physically crush them to death. There's just a good amount of them. You're making individually suicidal attacks to charge a mech.

>>719207321
oh sure just saying power armor > mechs in just about any scenario you'd want to use a mech
after all the super material you're using on a mech can also be used on power armor

>>719207269
Yes, superior weapons against your inferior weapons, and no one has any supplies.

>>719207245
>farewell to arms 2013
this is the future the dod wants

>>719207370
yeh but what about advanced armor that lets power armor soldiers withstand anti-tank weapons and new engines that let them move faster than mechs?

you can just have power armor soldiers dodge most of the mech's attacks and disable their weak points, using mechs is kinda suicidal when power armor is around to do it's job better

>>719195847
>This. It distributes weight much better.
It doesn't.

Legs don't work like wheels. It always amazes me when I have to describe to tanktards how a fucking leg works, but it goes up and down, it doesn't rely on friction the same way a wheel does, and that directly impacts how much the weight distribution matters. Legs can pull out of a 1ft hole, you can *crawl* through mud. A tracked vehicle needs a pulley and train to pull it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Ekx0djHgU
we power armor now?

>>719181447
I'm so glad that the future of war is going to be as cheap as our lives.

>>719207480
If power armor soldiers can withstand anti-tank weapons, a mech would be able to.

>>719207512
pulling the leg out puts more force on the other leg causing it to sink deeper
you can't just step out of quicksand, and everything is quicksand to a mech

>>719207536
Wake me when he finishes it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjTcReaOqQ0

>>719207480
That's literally battletech and you still die when you get shot with a particle cannon. You still have to approach the mech.

It takes squads of power armor to kill a mech, and you can expect multiple men to die in the attempt. The mech can win with superficial damage and the pilot doesn't die. You expect losses while they expect survival. This is why they're used by an insane warrior cult that doesn't mind dying so much.

Spreading your power level out over multiple people is effective but you have to motivate the individuals to attack a giant machine that might have a reactor flamethrower that instantly kills half your squad.

>>719207575
at which point, why use a mech?
power armor is just as durable as them, faster, and more mobile
if really need be you can just use cyborgs, cyborgs beat mechs at everything you could possibly imagine a mech doing

>>719207381
Elementals were Scarier early on because no one knew how to deal with them.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Elemental_(Battle_Armor)
And the IS also have Power Armor tech
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Battle_armor

>>719207636
its mostly done

>>719207670
why does it take a squad to take down a mech?
you can just put a particle cannon on power armor and have it mow down mechs easily
they're also more mobile and can hide from the mech easily letting them get the first drop

>>719207608
I dunno why people think the world has the consistency of half-set jelly. Look at cars. They rest their entire weight on the the edge of four wheels. They sink only when their movement churns the ground. They don't actually just fall into the earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9alJwQG-Wbk
how can we use this for war

>>719207792
yeh but a car also doesn't weigh 100 tons and drives on 1 wheel half the time

>>719207783
Because you can't put a particle cannon on a power armor.
You need a big reactor. Then you need to armor it. Then it's a mech. You've reinvented the mech and admitted it's the better format.

>>719207817
Make sure the guy in the chair piloting the predator drone doesn't miss.

>>719207783
In Battletech. The BA scaled weapons tend to not do too well against mechs and tanks. They can get between joints and shoot weakpoints or even shoot the cockpit out though.

>>719205884
Go get 'em tiger. I'm sure you'll teach them real good one of these days.

>>719207892
>>719207817
>an automated system must never issue a kill command
>have the automated system forcibly move the humans finger to press fire
genius

>>719207873
UMM ACKSUALLY

>>719207873
>Because you can't put a particle cannon on a power armor.
Yes you can, just miniaturize it with a better power source
I put a particle cannon on my power armor and it mows down mechs easily

They also have energy swords capable of cutting through mech armor, so they just need to get at close range, which is easy in jungle or mountainous terrain where mechs otherwise would have advantages over other vehicles

>>719207979
BA PPCs are like 3 damage compared to 10, IIRC?

>>719207997
>miniaturize
Why don't you maximize it instead?
And then you have a mech that can do all those things instead of a power armor that can't.

>>719184042
Karen hates giant robot tho you homo

>>719207480
>super fast servos
I think at that point the military will be 25% human power armor and vehicles for contingency, 75% unmanned power armor and vehicles

>>719207690
>>719207783
Because you low iq retard, said weaponry can kill a power armor wielder on sight with energy weapons, mainly a PPC to the chest.
AND PPC's cant be miniaturized due to the shitload of energy one uses, and even energy weaponry in mechs are stronger than power armored ones, and even energy weapons in power armor is weak.

>>719207873
Even protomechs cant wield high grade energy weapons as a mech can, and protomechs are aberrations made by Smoked Jaaaaaaaaaags

>>719206701
But enough about tanks. Time to talk about REAL PRACTICAL WARFARE.

>>719181762
Probably won't happen

>>719208074
because it's a futurist power source, the same technology that made power sources small enough for mechs to use has made them small enough for power armor to use, so power armor has particle beam cannons

Power armor does everything a mech does, while also being faster, stealthier, more mobile and cheaper
Also much faster reaction times since the brain is better at controlling a body of it's usual size than a larger one

>>719207979
>>719208064
Exactly. Power armor is literally just spreading out a mechs power level over a few different guys.

And those guys have to expect to be killed while the mech pilot just pulls the eject when it gets hairy. You have to be insane to want to fight a mech in power armor. Which is cool though.

>>719208201
Fujo wing is just shit.

>>719208118
I made a better PPC that got miniaturized, why are you saying that's impossible, do you know the future, do you know what might be possible? I thought not
It's miniaturized and it works, and the power armor soldiers are out there killing mechs at higher rates than mechs are killing them

>>719208212
Why not put it in a mech and then you have even more power?

OP is a fag that would refuse a batchall

>>719207572
most drones actually miss target or get jammed, you don't see the fpv footage of those because they don't make it online LOL

>>719208214
Elementals are insane. But even in a mech I still wouldn't want to go up against one. I had a few bad runs with them in Roguetech and I'm generally pretty careful.

here's how the average mech vs cyborg fight would go
cyborgs > mechs in all circumstances

>>719207690
Assuming identical durability for PA and a mech, the mech would still have more firepower and possibly auxiliary capabilities like EW.

>kills your entire tank battalion
>walks away slowly

>>719184630
>>719194258
maybe those strayans know what's up down there

>>719208308
Same reason you don't put it in a tank and get even more power than in the mech
the power armor is simply better at using it

>>719208408
...very slowly

>>719208382
Nope, the particle beam has the same power as the mech one, miniaturization is a hell of a drug sadly

Could AI finally solve the problem of maintaining balance for a walking machine so the pilot only has to push the joystick in the desired direction and shoot?

>>719208425
>Same reason you don't put it in a tank and get even more power than in the mech
Mechs are more powerful than tanks. They're bigger and stronger and have big powerful generators.

Tanks are small and weak and get killed by drones.

>>719208491
>unironically talking about particle memes
I'm talking about how to build a plausible mech, not game mechanics.

>>719208579
Power armor has the human spirit on it's side letting it overcome any mech
they rendered tanks obsolete and then rendered mechs obsolete

>>719184630
if i have to sit in this shit for hours at a time, i want it to be comfy. i also have groceries i want to keep in the truck cabin rather than on the bed.

>>719208621
>I'm talking about how to build a plausible mech,
It's called building a tank anon, and it's boring
Power armor, and it's more advanced form, the cyborg, are however better than the mech, they can do everything a mech does but better and more agile

>we went all the way into the post limit because of the realismfag seething over battletech/mechwarrior
before this thread dies, shadow of kerensky is coming out soon and i want to give mech 5 mercs a new chance, so which mods are good 2 go for a gameplay these days?

Also any mech 2 mercs remake campaign mod?

>>719208669
Mechs are bigger versions of people, so there's even more human spirit in them. The bigger the human, the more spirit.

>>719208772
no they're cyclopean abominations, they're idols from a bygone age when man still cowered before it found it's spirit

>>719208742
>It's called building a tank anon
Only midwits think this. The mech will triumph.

>>719208868
Power armor triumphs over the mech, it is the true return of the ancient warrior, when we finally become the heroes of legend, the modern Gilgamesh

If I want to get into battletech books, where do I start?

>>719208768
Get YAML at the bare minimum.

People suggest a lot of other big sweeping changes mods, but I dunno how great they are. It starts to get hard tracking what mod is doing what. vonbiomes looks very pretty, but it's fucked up my terrain generation multiple times.
Battlegrid orders is great and should've just been put in the game proper. I want to mess around with ttrulez AI, so I can actually tell my mechs what sort of things their mech is supposed to be doing.
>>719208834
>cyclopean
There's your problem. You've got yourself the zaku instead of the gundam. The gundam beats the zaku cause it's more human and full of spirit.

>>719208914
its 3152, year of the ilKhanate of Charles II of spa... I MEAN THE GREAT ilKHAN AND FIRST LORD OF THE NEW STAR LEAGUE THE GREAT ALARIC WARD STEINER-DAVION, KERENSKY BLESS HIM and that was proven wrong millions of times, even with assault power armor designs

>>719208914
I'd prefer it if we became Enkidu, except don't fuck the roastie this time. Just wait for the robowaifu revolution.

*drones you*
how do you respond without sounding mad?

>>719208976
Begin with the classics.
then the new ones that features a fuckable brat and her twin in highwind
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Tara_Campbell
And learn to hate the Dark Age era

>>719209228
>laser AMS
nothing personal

>>719209114
Enkidu are the semi-wild shape cyborgs, they're the close companions of the power armor soldier

This kills the "mechs are shit because of their higher profile" argument.
Mech than can also use treads > tank that can never stand up.

>>719209323
I don't know where this brand of schizo came from, but it's kind of funny.

>>719209573
It's more expensive to build this than it is to build a pure tank or pure mech though.

>>719209702
if you're cheaping out then don't have an armoured division at all and send in more conscripts.

>>719209573
this is just a tank at this point

>>719209883
It's a mech.

>>719209938
That is just Brawl of the Combaticons

>>719210017
For all intents and purposes, yes. Transformer wins both sides of any debate.

>>719209573
I agree but think the loto is a bit ugly.

Personally I like it when mechs can just crouch down real good. Like their hips aren't designed to block themselves from hitting the dirt. Mechs with hoverlegs or wheeled feet that can raise and lower their sight profile is my favorite.