Thread 719198496

Japanese gacha industry is sinking, they can't compete with Chinese and Korean studios, many games are EOS'ing and a lot of people are losing their jobs, and worse yet they struggle going back to work on console games.

It's all your fault, /v/, for spamming the Mihoyo shit over and over. Now no one wants to play the Nip stuff.

it's fucked how final fantasy went from having 6 active gachas just before the genshin boom to a mere 1 by the end of 2025

>NOOOO DONT MAKE US DEVELOP ACTUAL VIDEO GAMES PLEASE
why are they like this?

>>719198627
wtf, even 1 active is 1 more than the world needs, fuck gacha, the governments can't wake up soon enough to regulate the shit out of these glorified casinos

shame on everyone who supports this bullshit

Just make good games?

>>719198665
>spend 10 years working on waifu.jpeg games
>can't handle actual gamedev pipeline
>no one wants to hire you
>commit sudoku

>>719198496 (OP)
Good. Let's hope the chink and gook gachas crash as well.

>>719198496 (OP)
>Now no one wants to play the Nip stuff.
Well maybe if they actually bothered giving half their shit a global release they could get some more players

>>719198496 (OP)
everyone is playing umas though

>>719198627
It's fucked how there were 6 to begin with. The resources for that could have went to an actual game instead.

>>719198496 (OP)
That's a pretty cool article, actually lists facts and sources, not just fearmongering.
>According to a survey by the Japan Online Game Association (source: ASCII Japan), the domestic online game market was worth an estimated 1.105 trillion yen in 2024 (about $7.48 billion), a steady decline from 2023’s $10.89 billion. Meanwhile, average mobile game development costs in 2024 rose to about $3.33 million per title, 4.7 times higher than ten years ago. Combined with the effect of market oversaturation and strong competition from high-budget publishers in China and South Korea, Japan’s domestic gacha game market will likely have a difficult time regaining its momentum.
https://automaton-media.com/en/news/japans-gacha-game-industry-in-a-sinking-titanic-phase-developer-says-switching-to-console-game-development-not-an-easy-solution-for-many/

>>719199008
They tried hard with Ever Crisis. Still flopped though. Rolling on costumes just isn't fun enough

>>719198893
the ccp will ban gachas one day, they still plan on reaching socialism in the next 20 years after all

>>719199086
Westerners can't save Uma, westerners don't whale

>>719198496 (OP)
Japan redemption arc after gooks & chinks going on the wrong path?

>be cygames and DUDE/OTHER GAME gacha devs
>make lazy, shitty gacha and rake in money
>other JP devs take note and do likewise
>KR and CN start taking note and do likewise
>KR and CN making gacha with more impressive presentation than the shitty quality JP gacha devs offer
>JP gacha refuse to improve so they end up losing to KR and CN
>meanwhile, in america/europe, gacha games are pulling for sportsball characters in yearly rehash sportgames

>>719199519
I think the new meta is just outsourcing to China like for example Persona 5 X.

>>719198496 (OP)
More like S-E sucks at making gacha games (or they outsource most of them to literally who retards), it's no surprise most of them get shut down in like a year after release because they're making less than $100-200k a month (although some flops like KHUX make negative money and stay around for years because they're directly backed by some higher-up like Nomura in this example)
Funny how ex-Square-Enix devs made their own company to make gacha games (Cygames) and they actually released some succesful ones. Hell, they even have their own art team (CyDesignation) and S-E outsource some work to them because fuckall talented people still work there.

>>719198496 (OP)
Japan used to make incredible games.
If they stop making gacha I'm sure they can relearn how.

>>719198496 (OP)
Shouldn't have listened to Sweet Baby Inc.

>>719198496 (OP)
i played this game until the EOS in the international version. in the end they kept re running the same events over and over again, and trying to please the metafags and whales until the game died.
it was cool to play a gacha game with an actual plot, where the females are not trying to ride your dick every five minutes.
bonus points for making this banger of boss fight track.
https://youtu.be/WrL5HZRzjnE

>>719199743
current chinese gachas are better than japan's entire portfolio of console games so gacha itself isn't the problem

>>719198496 (OP)
>Make shit loads of money with FGO
>Open a new studio and release a trailer for new projects
>Don't do anything and stall finishing FGO for 5 years
Japs have lost the plot

>>719199996
they made a ninja gaiden gacha?!

>>719198893
they're already crashing. all new chink gachas are quickly dying.

>>719199996
False

>>719199996
China is a dying nation of people that live in constant squalor as their birthrates plummet to below replacement level

Uh gachas are shit btw, that's the thread topic or something
They're not games

>>719198496 (OP)
>earn literal billions selling fucking jpgs
>too unfathomably stupid to divert some of those good times funds to create some proper fucking video games to keep them well fed during bad times
It does not follow therefore that men, when the weather becomes fair, shall not make provision, both with defences and barriers, in such a manner that, rising again, the waters may pass away by canal, and their force be neither so unrestrained nor so dangerous.

>>719198496 (OP)
>Japanese gacha industry is sinking
>Japanese horse gacha is the biggest game of 2025
No, it's just other series like Final Fantasy are sinking. They tried to turn everything into a gacha and, not a big shock, only a handful of them got big. The rest will die off. And we'll be left with like 5 big gachas.

And Final Fantasy is dying not because of gacha but because of three decades of stupid management from Square.

>>719199241
It's almost like hype and growth are not endless. And there will always be a contraction. But shareholders are too stupid to know how money works, let alone entropy.

>>719199273
I can see China banning gacha for Chinese citizens, but still fully endorse the development of gacha games for foreign markets.

>>719198496 (OP)
Having a rough week macaco?

>>719200640
>look up Uma Musume
>pic related is the gameplay
ah yes, this is a true Genshin/WuWa/ZZZ killer

>>719201276
>the title screen is the gameplay
Try a little harder.

>make gacha game
>introduce sexy waifus with old school RPG gameplay
>decide you're now "above it all"
>no more sexy waifus
>old school rpg systems become lazy simple shit
They lost their way.

>>719199273
they won't, last time they announced a ban on gacha games they nuked tens of billions from their own tech sector

Brave Exvius was so fucking trash, it was such a greedy gacha game with near non-existent pity and monthly Arianna Grande events.

>>719199273
They'll only ban it if the money stops coming in or the people doing it anger the CCP. As long as the money keeps coming in, they will let them keep doing it. And Hoyo management are card wielding members of the CCP and still making billions of dollars.

Now, if somehow Hoyo gets so big they start to interfere with Xi's power...yeah. Then they'll "disappear" the company CEOs and take it over.

SE is retarded news at 11

>>719200640
>Japanese horse gacha is the biggest game of 2025
In what world?

>>719198627
FF is now a niche franchise.
Square Enix managed to kill it.

>>719199996
This is the most retarded post I've read in awhile.
Here's your (You).

>>719198496 (OP)
>Japanese gacha industry is sinking, they can't compete with Chinese and Korean studios
Anon FGO, Umamusume, Gakumas, Even Madoka Exedra would like to speak with you. Yes you can pull up meme chart, but the whole irony of your statement to say that they can not compete is retarded.
>many games are EOS'ing and a lot of people are losing their jobs, and worse yet they struggle going back to work on console games.
Yes because the quality of Gacha games is rising and therefore the costs are higher. 2D Gacha's are no longer as viable as they once were. Nowadays it's either 2.5D or 3D or bust. Very few 2D ones are able to make it to market.

Also SEGA and Square Enix expected to make easy money off the Gacha market, but usually IP Gacha is looked down upon because their rates and monetary incentives are worse compared to the lower echeleons of Japanese Companies already in the market and are wildly successful. It's their own fault for failing in the market, not Cygames, not Bandai Namco not others who are successful to this day.

>>719198496 (OP)
Looks like this is only a Shartenix problem.

>>719198496 (OP)
Gachas turn to shit the longer they go on for. The more tacked on bullshit the more shit you have to grind for, balance gets completely fucked, etc. What made Brave Exvius nice is that you only needed 1 copy of a character to max them out. Even 3* base units could be really good maxed out. With the addition of 7* units you needed to pull the character and 4 copies of them to max them out. Neo Vision made things infinitely worse by reducing the game to numbers porn and making it so you're required to do x amount of damage in 1~2 turns or else you lose.

Kingdom Hearts Union X had this same exact issue. Every attack doing full screen number damage, you dying in 1 hit, you having to win the battle within 3 turns or else you lose, etc. Brave Exvius followed the KHUX model to the T and died just like it did.

Who are the final fantasy adjacent gachas even for?
I'm in my late 30s and I have had zero interest in them. And, I can't imagine zoomers have the nostalgia to fuel interest in the first place.
I'd try (and have tried) gachas that are original IPs, why would I want to play something that's a some shitty, greedy bastardization of something I loved in my youth?
It just doesn't make sense to me.
Who is even playing these, and why do they not respect their interests to this extent?

>>719198496 (OP)
japan's gacha industry isn't sinking. it's just SE that sucks balls.

>>719199996
>Be CN
>Powercreep characters constantly
>Hard boil the userbase into paying
>Make the same Open World games constantly with the same UI that's just another Genshin Impact clone
>The same overdone Animations.
The only people who unironically like anything CN are retards who played CN games for the first time and have not touched anything else.

>>719204991
tick tock addled minds play these games because you just play them for 10-20 minute bursts. you pay money to get skins and weapons. and people go along with it. "it's just $5" for this item.. and it adds up over time.

>>719201276
Bro immediately summoned strawmen in his schizoposting lmao

>>719204991
>Who are the final fantasy adjacent gachas even for?
The shareholders. Literally. Square management announces "we're making a FF gacha." The shareholders dump $300 million into their stock. They make the game for $50 million and invest the other $250 million to cover their other games loses. Then let the game die after 9 months. Idiot shareholders lose their money and Square can claim they're "growing."

>>719204930
Square Enix has quality in terms of presentation and animation. But their monetary system and economy are awful especially the Gameplay aspects. They try to milk users on a premium. I did not even know Cygames were former Square Enix employees. It would explain a lot of how they are successful and Square Enix is not in Gacha.

>>719201276
Anon.. That's the Title Screen. Also it's nice to have an alternative to the clone wars of open world games for once which is why people like Umamusume anyways.

>>719198627
The problem is the fact Square Enix just has awful Management. I mean look at how bad they have been doing in the Live Service sphere
>FFXIV went from Endwalker and killed themselves with Dawntrail by not listening to user feedback to change anything
>6 Gacha's but somehow they have not so good rates or just horribly monetized.
Square Enix can make great games and things, they have talent. But the management is dropping the ball. Should have made original gacha and really tried to compete.

>>719199241
>Combined with the effect of market oversaturation and strong competition from high-budget publishers in China and South Korea, Japan’s domestic gacha game market will likely have a difficult time regaining its momentum.
For Square Enix and SEGA etc. Absolutely. For everyone else fuck no. Still plenty of Japanese Gacha that can easily enter in and compete.

>>719205278
Square-Enix has zero long term planning skills for gachas. Their only idea to prolong a gachas life is to make the numbers bigger. I fucking laughed when I redownloaded BE after a year or so and all of a sudden I was doing 5+ million damage in 1 hit.

>>719205776
All true. But the problem is Square has always run their company following the Hollywood model. In the 90s this meant taking risks and investing in new technologies (CGI, etc). But Hollywood became stagnant in the 2000s and on. And Square continued to copy their model. So now you can only get something greenlit if it's a spin off or remake of [known IP]. Hence, Final Fantasy gacha, rather than an original concept.

>>719205932
>>719206448
I think this is an issue with bigger companies and shareholders. They take less risk because they think if it's not an IP it can not work or make money. But honestly it's a lie it can but they need to be able to take a risk on products and allow them to make money. But they are too thirsty for ROI ASAP make huge numbers they lose sight of trying to think long term with viability.

>>719206448
>So now you can only get something greenlit if it's a spin off or remake of [known IP]
What? SE releases a lot of random shit, like Harvestella and DioField Chronicle. Not gachas though.

>>719206660
Ssssh, stop noticing.
We're only here for high profile shit, who the fuck cares about small games they put out :^)

>>719199841
While Gumi were a bunch of fucking turbokikes that made me quit at some point I can't deny how good it was to have a game with some actual story that seemed to progress toward something and had regularly scheduled updates
Everything else I've tried after that was just status quo shit that released at a snail's pace

>>719206627
Their gachas tend to be decent for the first year or so though. Record Keeper, Brave Exvius, KHUX, and Dissidia Opera Omnia were all decent early on. The one thing they all have in common is devolving into number porn and making events that kill you if you don't win in 1-3 turns. That's not the only reason why they turned to shit but it is a thing they had in common.

>>719198496 (OP)
if nikke can make a single player offline game so can gacha come on now they are just lazy.

>>719198496 (OP)
It's not our fault japs are stingy as fuck about their gacha.
Stop making shit expire so much and be more generous like the chinks and koreans. Then you can still have your absolutely garbage rates and noone will care that much.

>>719207595
stellar blade was largely outsourced to virtuos.

>>719207448
Opera Omnia fucked itself with FR skills. Kam'lanaut's to be specific.

>>719198496 (OP)
It's not our fault japanese are stingy as fuck about their gacha. Stop making shit expire so much and be more generous with the freebees like the chinese and koreans.
Then you can still have your absolutely garbage rates and noone will care that much. It's not that fucking hard. And while you're at it, get someone to teach you how to code, so people don't have to redownload the APK every god damn week.

>>719205127
Why do Horsetards post as if their opinions matter? I have not scene a gacha with worse gameplay in Uma in a long while.

>>719198496 (OP)
anyone else think it's funny that China copied Japan hard and is now making billions off of it.
China is very good at copying something and very recently they're getting much better at polishing their products in way that Japan cannot compete with just because China has so many fucking people.

The one strength Japan had compared to China and Korea was that they made a lot of weird unique shit and they had the freedom to tell more sexual, bloody, and "taboo" stories compared to china and koreas censorship. It seems that in recent years they're losing even that.

>>719198496 (OP)
so...china ended up saving japanese vidya?

APOLOGIZE

>>719198496 (OP)
>Japanese gacha industry is sinking, they can't compete with Chinese and Korean studios

Yeah, because they treated gacha as a cheap cash grab. China and Korea still wanted to make a decent game that you'd be willing to put up with the gacha. Japan just made a lot of gacha of their big IPs as cash grabs (SE being one of the worst culprits). Not to mention Genshin set the bar VERY high to where you can't just have cheap sprites anymore. What's dumb is gacha is doing better than its ever big. Its just Japs got lazy and let the Chinks and Gooks run away with the market.

>>719209383
>Japan just made a lot of gacha of their big IPs as cash grabs (SE being one of the worst culprits)
Who are the other culprits?

>>719198496 (OP)
Every gacha they made should've just been a single player game, Japan is a soulless husk of what they used to be

it's interesting that if you look at those gachashit revenue charts like 90% of the jap games are just milking 10+ year old ips. literally every game except for horse girls is based on some boomer series like gundam or dragonball. japs just see gacha as a way to scam money from people and don't consider it real gaming. when one game starts dying they just shit out another one based on some other popular thing. it's basically the same as pachinko.

>>719209137
I mean, it's what china's been doing for decades. To everybody, from everybody.
"Copying" is a really kind way to put it though. Most of the corporations they've looted would call it espionage.

>>719209462
Kadokawa.
Why do you think sony was so hot to get ahold of them.

>>719209727
What gachas have kadokawa made?

>>719209536
Nice generalization there chink shill

>>719198496 (OP)
The constant stream of low budget titles that inevitably EOS soon after release is one of the big problem with Japanese gacha games. People don't want to spend time and money just to lose everything in possibly a couple of months, it's like the video game equivalent of getting rug pulled.

>>719210194
it's not a generalization you can literally look at the top gachashits from japan and see that none of them are original.

>>719207448
Thats BE.
RK became tedious as fuck scripted fights that demanded you have specific shit or fuck off, they also went on far longer than they should've despite being supposedly less than a minute real time. Being enchanted to do damage? Fine thats bearable, but fucking moves that remove said enchant when the only way to get them is via soul breaks fuck off whoever thought that was good.
OO got completely retarded with HP numbers to the point you basically did nothing if you weren't in a specific burn phase mechanic that overly centralized the game, also too many mechanics that completely buttfucked characters or setups that made it more obnoxious than it needed to be.


no opinion on KH.

>>719208065
Kam's was the beginning of the end yeah.
FR's basically killed that game hard.

>>719201739
yeah but that's being capitalist, once they can afford the losses they'll try again

>fate extra record delayed
Though Im just gonna choose tamamo again

>>719210194
I'm convinced anyone that likes solo leveling has no aesthetic taste whatsoever.
Full disclosure, I don't know what argument you're making, and haven't and will not read the thread for context.

>>719210421
In KHUX hp and defense stats were entirely worthless. You die in 1 hit. You have an ability where you revive once when you die and your pet also gives you an extra life. The game reached a point where virtually every single battle was "win by turn 3 or you lose"

>>719198893
Their devs expect it to happen soon. That's why the KR devs are now trying to make regular games, while the CN devs are warning everyone that the market is oversaturated. Five years from now, you're going to see something similar to MMOs, where you have a few immortal giants and a mass grave for everything else.

Japanese gacha have always been the most Jewish money grabs. I'm surprised it has taken this long, honestly.

>>719198496 (OP)
It's not enough, it would be best if all gacha failed entirely so devs have to make actual video games instead.

At this point they deserve it. Jap gachas were nothing more than autobattlers with jpegs attached, it wasnt until chinks said "What if we add at least some tiny bit of more gameplay to the mix" than even the japanese themselves saw how nothing jap gacha is. Meanwhile koreans and chinks coming up with warframe gacha (now not gacha) gacha xcom, gacha shooters

>>719205245
No wonder I see so many brain-dead finance takes these days. Do you actually think the stock price going up is money going to the company? There's no way you're THAT financially illiterate

>>719198496 (OP)
The untold problem with gachas is that there never was a end goal or a end game. When does one "beat" a gacha game? Where's the final boss?

>>719211880
I wouldn't be praising Koreans either. They crashed their one and only market, the MMO market long before gacha got big. They'll follow suit too. Chinks will probably just make their own consoles at some point instead of these shitty AAA games on mobile phones.

>>719198496 (OP)
fgo will always be eternal
other gachas can just go eat a big fat dick, specially chink gachas

>gatcha's now need actual graphics to compete in the market, instead of just 2d static drawings
Good.

>>719212139
This is also a problem with MMOs. New expansion, new power creep, your previous achievements now mean nothing, etc.

the world would be a better place if every person who has ever even so much as installed a gacha dropped dead

>>719212139
Just like MMOs and other live service games, that's up to you. The games will always try to string you along to the next update, hoping to extract just a little more money out of you, or have you lure in new players for them.

The gacha gold rush in the mid to late 2010's so was crazy. There were big new games coming out every week if not every few days. The industry really is dead as fuck right now in comparison to those days, Genshin killed it by setting expectations too high so devs can't make clones of other gacha games with a popular IP attached and call it a day without investing a lot more money now.

It's basically what happened with MMOs. There used to be weekly Korean MMOs releasing but now the genre barely gets big new releases.

>>719212005
>Do you actually think the stock price going up is money going to the company?
It sounds like you're the one who's illiterate. I literally said they're covering up their losses and put "growth" in quotes. I know you can't get a persons tone of voice through text. But you should be able to get it when I lay it out in the text.

Good fuck gacha. Never spend lads. Never spend on gacha. What a literal scam. FOTM FOMO BULLshit. Mental manipulators praying on people like this dont deserve jobs or your money.

>>719200030
>>719212194

Kantai collection tested the grounds.

FGO almost perfected the idea and walked so that other gachas can run.

Genshin impact is the standard ideal gacha game.

>>719212150
>They crashed their one and only market, the MMO market long before gacha got big.
They also had other markets. Namely the RTS and Gunbound markets. But they killed those as well.

>>719212537
>The shareholders dump $300 million into their stock. They make the game for $50 million and invest the other $250 million to cover their other games loses.
So what was this then?

>>719198496 (OP)
how is it my fault that i dont wanna play 30 year old gacha browser games?

>>719209383
blackcloverbros... its over...

>>719209636
japan also did it back in the days but for some reason people ignore that

>>719213015
It's called a pyramid scheme. Look it up sometime.

>Japs are forced to make actual games now
Good news, china and korea can have their gachashit

>>719213364
Japan still does it. It's just that the whole "it's okay when Japan does it" is real. And it's because Japan doesn't try to claim they're the originator of the thing. They take something, refine it and make it better. China takes the thing and copies it directly. Then says they invented it.

i just want there to be a good ff gacha
wotv was such a waste of potential
and the others were just run into the ground over time

>>719213417
I know what a pyramid scheme is, you magnificent example of the dunning Kruger effect. What I don't know is what you think the link is between people putting 300 mil into SE stocks and SE spending 300mil. You said them in consecutive sentences, but you also acknowledge that the first 300 mil doesn't go to SE.

>>719212194
FGO being such an old platform feels like an advantage in the current climate because with old graphics, simple 2D presentation and a more narrative focused, essentially VN in mobile format delivery, it doesn't compete so frontally against the waves of Mihoyo and Korean gachas. A lot of the people who persist there are people who grew up with visual novels and TM products, and it keeps interest by being a generally narrative oriented game. For better or worse, that's part of the reason there will likely never be a FGO2 with updated models and graphics, not only because people already invested too much on their accounts so they'd not want to migrate and start from scratch, but the cost of upgrading graphics and visuals and meeting the kind of high standard that Mihoyo and others have set is just too much, specially considering all the other side projects the FGO machine already carries.

Umamusume similarly brings a very different kind of experience that you won't get with other gacha products on the market. I think as long as you're working with different niches that do not compete so frontally with the current market leaders, it should be fine, otherwise it's looking like a suicidal enterprise.

>>719198496 (OP)
They should release an offline version of Mobius. I liked that one. Great music and completely schizo story.

>>719213980
>What I don't know is what you think the link is between people putting 300 mil into SE stocks and SE spending 300mil.
>They make the game for $50 million and invest the other $250 million to cover their other games loses.
Literally can't read.

The budget put into modern gadgets make me feel like none of them will reach the decade mark, simply because it'll cost too much to maintain at its old presentation level once the numbers dwindle too much.

Vs. 2d gatcha where.....you just throw one artist at it for awhile and someone else to write up new scenarios/maps.

>>719214401
let me make my question more clear since you are clearly more than fiscally retarded.
What is the relationship between people spending money on stocks and SE spending money on expenses? The money spent on stocks goes to other shareholders, not SE.

>>719212259
I mean RPGs are about building a character. Increasing the level cap isn't exactly a problem because you take the same character forward. With gacha if they powercreep your old characters and you need to gamble for the new and strong ones it's much worse.

Maybe their shitty menu clicker gachas would last a little longer if they didn't shut them down annually.

It can't cost that much to keep a game like Opera Omnia going. Square doesn't give a shit. They shut it down and thought the playerbase would just shift over to the next game and start their progress over. No fucking chance. Better yet, stop putting out low budget cashgrabs.

>>719214478
Square Enix isn't putting out big budget gachas. They're putting out low budget cash grabs, shutting them down after a year, and crying about Genshin stealing their lunch.

Honestly, if they actually committed to FInal Fantasy XVII as a big budget gacha game and gave it the longevity of treatment that XI got, they might be able to compete. But why would you ever give them money when they've proven they're perfectly willing to throw your progress away when its convenient to them?

>>719214701
Stock is not a static thing. Companies borrow and invest with their stock value. That's the entire reason they go public in the first place. There would be no reason to open your company up to outside investment if you had to just sit on it. And this is obvious when you also look at how many companies crashed because of a sudden rush on their stock couldn't be covered. Because, again, it's being invested in other companies, R&D, product development, etc.

The irony when you're claiming I'm fiscally retarded...

>>719215210
XI lasting 23 years (so far) was a complete accident, and twice they tried to shut it down.

>>719198496 (OP)
Good, you produce nothing but low effort slop for past 10-15 years (with very few exceptions) and then act surprised that chinks and kimchis taken over of both gacha and gaming industry. It's a self inflicted wound.

Now you go bankrupt and i will celebrate every single of your companies going down in flames.

>>719214006
To be fair, FGO is in a very unique situation. Unlike many gachas that exist only as a ad and just there for quick money, its canon. Really rare for a gacha game i think. Anything that happens in the game may affect other future Fate works. Nasu and the other writers are all supporting the game.

>>719213432
>Japs are forced to make tranny BlackRock propaganda and go bakrupt for good
Fixed for you

>>719215234
1. The numbers you gave give a 1:1 ratio of money spent on stocks to expenses. If you can't see why you're being called retarded for that you're beyond help.
2. Loans have to be paid back. You don't EVER want to be borrowing for losses or you're twice as deep in the hole, so I don't know why you're bringing that up
3. I have no idea what you mean by "invest with their stock value". Stock is in the hands of the stock holder, not the company.
4. A company goes public because ISSUING stock brings in money. Once the stock is issued, the company doesn't get any more money from it being traded.
5. Show me one example of a business that had good financials, but had their stock price driven down and had to shut down.

Don't learn economics from /pol/.

>>719213312
>blackcloverbros
such thing does not exist, anon.

>>719215961
>1. The numbers you gave give a 1:1 ratio of money spent on stocks to expenses. If you can't see why you're being called retarded for that you're beyond help.
You're right. They usually use more.
>2. Loans have to be paid back. You don't EVER want to be borrowing for losses or you're twice as deep in the hole, so I don't know why you're bringing that up
If you think companies don't take more loans than they're worth, you're an idiot. They take a new loan to pay past loans or refinance loans all the time. Every fucking government in the world does this. What makes you think companies don't?
>3. I have no idea what you mean by "invest with their stock value". Stock is in the hands of the stock holder, not the company.
The money they get from the stock. But also, the interest rates and loans they get is dependent on their companies value. Which stock is one part of that.
>4. A company goes public because ISSUING stock brings in money. Once the stock is issued, the company doesn't get any more money from it being traded.
And hence why I said they will trick new investors to buy stock. But you keep skipping over the parts that don't fit your argument.
>5. Show me one example of a business that had good financials, but had their stock price driven down and had to shut down.
They don't have good financials. That's the point. They issue more stock than their company is worth, then get screwed if a huge amount of the investors suddenly want to cash out. Like I already said in a previous post, they either have to borrow to cover their debts or get new investors to replace the old ones. This happened to an anime studio called Gainax. And is currently happening to Disney. But Disney is able to stay afloat because of their outside investments and theme parks.

>>719216479
>If you think companies don't take more loans than they're worth, you're an idiot.
That's not what I said. Not even going to read the rest of your drivel. You're clearly neither equipped nor inclined to have any actual conversation.

>>719216831
>You're clearly neither equipped nor inclined to have any actual conversation.
Coming from the guy who didn't even understand how stock worked and kept deflecting to other points to try and hide it. But okay.

>>719216831
>That's not what I said. Not even going to read the rest of your drivel. You're clearly neither equipped nor inclined to have any actual conversation.
You got smoked son, cooked as the children say these days. Trying to accuse someone of financial illiteracy when he was breaking things down to your grade level is just embarrassing for you.

>>719200191
>China is a dying nation of people that live in constant squalor as their birthrates plummet to below replacement level
little bitch acting like that shit is exclusive to only China. It's all first and most 2nd world countries

>>719199996
Having hack and slash gameplay with exaggerated particle effects and faggy looking chinese people as the characters does not make a game good.