Thread 719201725

Why have so many people turned against it lately?

>>719201725 (OP)
It doesn't hold up I'm afraid

>719201725
newfags like this retard >719201810 who are baiting.
or you.

>>719201725 (OP)
It's a really good introductory game to JRPGs, but once you've played more fleshed out games it becomes obvious that the mechanics are barebones and the story is pretty generic.

>>719201890
is this satire

>Lately
Most people never gave a fuck about this mediocre game

>>719201725 (OP)
probably some zoomer's eceleb daddy said something about it

>>719201725 (OP)
It aged like milk and sensible people are willing to admit that.

>719202007
>719202056
>719202072
hello children.

>>719202007
Same for FF7 tho, except that's still ass even as a JRPG noobie

some actual dogshit takes in this thread

>>719202312
correct but the topic is ct

I just don't like that the dual/triple techs have range or positioning restrictions and you can't freely move your guys around for them.

>>719202312
>the two fucking representatives of JRPGs as a whole (CT and FF7) are le bad actually!
low tier bait

Probably the same discord raiders that tried to bash AlttP a few weeks ago.

>>719202007
What's the equivalent for other genres?

Gunstar Heroes, Shinobi III, Witcher 3, Trouble Shooter 2, NuGod of War, NuSpiderman. Any other examples?

>>719201725 (OP)
The recent Chrono Cross remaster showed that the sequel is much better.

>>719202580
JRPGs are an absolute garbage tier genre. WRPGs and CRPGs are far better in every aspect, or at the very least play a strategy/tactics game

>>719202580
>they're good because... they are.

I have never played this game purely because of the art style. I know that’s unfair, but Toriyama’s characters look like retards.

>>719201725 (OP)
It's literally one guy who spams the same hate thread every other day. Every time he posts it, people post an image from the archive of him spamming it 20+ times. It's basically become a meme now.

But also, it's popular. So you'll have contrarians come in and hate on it just for that reason.

>>719201725 (OP)
/v/ noticed too many redditors also like the game.

>>719202580
>>the two fucking representatives of JRPGs as a whole
according to who?

>>719205832
what's a more iconic JRPG?

dunno but it's boring and too easy

>>719205893
According to modern times' standards it's Persona 5

>>719201725 (OP)
spammed my pasta too much
>Combat is so fucking easy that you never even hear the battle theme get to the good part, just the shitty intro
>The positional "mechanics" are half baked and only matter in like 3 battles
>Didn't even invent ng+, atb or team attacks (their most jacked off features).
>Overworlds are empty as shit and small too, you can walk entire continents in 7 seconds flat
>The game lets you explore a bunch of time periods, but going anywhere other than the main story just gets you overleveled / overgeared for the rest of the game making an already easy game piss easy
>You can very easily overlevel and get to op
>even if you don't the combat is mindless easy and you can destroy anything with iust regular attacks
>If you somehow struggle in combat just spam your techs which obliterate everything and have almost little to no MP cost
>Even if you run out of mp (unlikely) there are too many shelters that both fully heal and restore MP
>Dino chapter is a fucking slog
>the main theme is overplayed, more likely to hear it more than just the regular battle theme
>The best part is frog vs magus and that's only like 1 hours of the total 17 hours runtime
>no side content aside of giving money to poor family and the side quests at the literal last hour of the game
>characters are shallow as a puddle consisting of
>Engineer girl that likes tech and crono
>Caveman girl that likes fight and crono
>Princess girl that likes jewel and crono
>Robot
>Crono
>a frog and mage that actually have some story
>Bosses are mostly bad with 1 gimmick attack like COUNTER, COUNTING FROM 5 TO 0, and more
>The bosses are just damage sponges with 1 gimmick, they are either a joke or too long for their own good
>Time periods feel like an afterthought alongside the whole time travel sequence since the overworld is so small it could of easily worked the same with them just being different regions
>final boss is a rerun unless you crash the ship
>it's a fucking moviegame

>>719205893
Paper Mario
Golden Sun
Xenosaga

>>719201725 (OP)
It's a big target made for a younger audience and /v/ is full of contrarians

>>719201725 (OP)
Because all jrpgs are shit. This one is among the least terrible of them though.

>>719205893
Iconic is a bad term. It's more like "most well known and hyped." Which yes, I know is what you meant by iconic. But people will start naming games they personally like, even when they are nowhere near as well known or popular as CT or FF7.

You can also make an argument that something like Dragon Quest is more "iconic" while not being as popular or selling as much as FF7 or Pokemon.

>>719201725 (OP)
>>719206242
>>719206153
Just because it's popular doesn't make it good
>Inb4 coping fags try to act like CT is somehow """obscure"""

>>719206248
Pokemon and CT are the most iconic JRPGs
damn no wonder the normalfag has dogshit taste.

>>719206248
>But people will start naming games they personally like, even when they are nowhere near as well known or popular as CT or FF7.
Who the fuck gives a shit about either of those two nowadays?
It's always fucking been about things people personally like, the entire press in this industry is maintained by a select handful of industry approved people who makes enormously exaggerated statements about everything to promote an agenda that doesn't actually reflect reality in any way outside of maybe the most immediate and fleeting one, you might as well believe that Ultima was a massively popular game that sold millions and millions of copies given the lip service it got for a good two decades but it's not true at all.
More people played Persona than CT these days, CT is a game that failed to leave a mark in the industry to the point where even the amount of spiritual successors is almost nonexistent compared to other franchises, it's the definition of a paper tiger propped by a generation of millennial game "journalists" who pretend to speak for for an entire planet according to their personal and paid bias.

Because it's 30 now and engagement baiting makes people want to say 'this classic doesn't hold up, especially not compared to [underwhelming alternative]'

>>719206126
Case in point.

>>719206596
Pokemon is a dumbed down Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Story clone for little kids. Are you fucking joking?

>>719206797
Are you seriously this retarded?

>>719206635
>CT is a game that failed to leave a mark in the industry
You're right that the gaming "journalists" are hacks who inflate certain games. But you're absolutely stupid if you think Chrono Trigger didn't leave a mark on the industry. Games like Chrono Trigger, Suikoden II and some of the earlier SMT games regularly get voted by fans (not the media but fans) in the top 10 RPGs ever made. Often surpassing FF and DQ games. And Pokemon don't even make it on the top 10. But obviously all those other series sold more. Because of hype.

Persona is gaining popularity now. But was less known than Chrono 10 years ago. And it got popular without the help of gaming journalists. It wasn't until Persona started selling well that journalists started reporting it. Acting like they were always fans when we have earlier articles of them calling it "problematic." And Persona is still nowhere near as big as other JRPG series. In sales or hype.

>>719201725 (OP)
contrarians fotm game to complain about besides hollow knight / silksong

>>719207070
Poketard projecting his retardation on others. Go play MT DDS for famicon and see for yourself that I'm true.

>>719207183
this

>>719206635
>CT is a game that failed to leave a mark in the industry to the point where even the amount of spiritual successors is almost nonexistent compared to other franchises
>Chrono Trigger influenced Suikoden, Grandia, Lunar, Legend of Legacy, etc
>then Chrono Cross turned around and took influence from Suikoden
>then Square copied both Chrono Trigger and Cross with FFX

>>719207290
So, yes, you are.

>>719207565
>reee pokemon is best!!!! it cant be a clone...it cant be! your lying!!! pikachu, help meee!!!!

>>719207639
No one is calling pokemon good in this thread.
learn to read retard

>>719207686
Learn to play games before talking about them.

>>719201725 (OP)
who the fuck are you talking about? what people? who the fuck are you

>>719207639
>it cant be a clone
its not about being a clone, and its not about being better or even good
the topic is ICONIC
and any time you mention nintendo and handheld, pokemon will come up

>>719201725 (OP)
I like it

>>719201725 (OP)
Fox and grapes. Playing this game as a kid in the 90's is the best way to enjoy it.

>>719201725 (OP)
name 1 person

>>719207893
>You literally have to have no standards to enjoy it
Rich. going in the next version of the pasta

>>719207117
Fans...who?
I seriously hope you do not think shit like Famitsu polls are worth anything.
>>719207551
>>Chrono Trigger influenced Suikoden, Grandia, Lunar, Legend of Legacy, etc
Legitimately what are you talking about? Suikoden has nothing in common with CT and neither does Grandia, Lunar came out BEFORE CT and Legend of Legacy is a fucking SaGa clone made by former SaGa team members.
Chrono Cross has more in common with SaGa than it does with Suikoden given it straight up copies some SaGa mechanics and FFX has nothing to do with either Trigger or Cross.

>>719207752
Chrono Trigger is mediocre dogshit
Pokemon is poor man's SMT
That's why Expedition 33 this year's goty is aping of Mario RPG and not the shitty ass CT

>>719201725 (OP)
Shitposters aren't people.

>>719201725 (OP)
It’s a good game but it’s too easy. I’ve never gotten through it because the battles get kinda boring after you get your tenth screen nuke that kills everything in one turn. It could really use a rerelease with rebalanced combat and harder difficulties. They should also steal party chat from dragon quest because I think that would be neat.

>>719201725 (OP)
Because they never got to sniff Ayla’s feral cavewoman boot feet.

>>719208348
Chrono Trigger has no grind. That alone elevates it high above 99.9% of jrpgs.

>>719208347
>Chrono Cross has more in common with SaGa than it does with Suikoden given it straight up copies some SaGa mechanics
Suikoden borrowed the same mechanics from SaGa and early FF games. But Cross borrows the idea of a huge cast of characters and how they work in the story from Suikoden. Though the developers didn't execute it as well as Suikoden did.
>and FFX has nothing to do with either Trigger or Cross.
Sin is totally not inspired by Lavos. And the setting is totally not similar to Cross.

>>719201725 (OP)

It's great and a very important game because of the team that made it. You're a disgusting loser if you think otherwise.

>>719201725 (OP)
Nobody has. It's just faggot zoomers (redundant, I know.) that should be paying Roblox giving their worthless opinions.

E33 won

>>719208348
So what the fuck is Secret of the Stars, then, faggot?

>>719209165
>game is piss easy and mindless
yeah bro you also don't need to grind in Sticker Star bet that's like a 9/10 just out of that

>>719209661
It's also important because it's the best game Square ever made. And it took the Enix team to help them do it.

>>719206126
>can't find the picture, sorry
AHAHAHAHAHA_FAGGOT.JPG

>>719210292
Just another generic JRPG like CT

>>719201725 (OP)
CT has always been babby's first jarpig whose rep is built on a combination of normalfag hyping it up since it's the only jrpg they've ever played other than pokemon, and a whole lot of nostalgia. It's still at least an 8/10 though, probably a 9.

>>719210434

I sincerely think it is Square's best. It's a great game in the same way Jurassic Park is a great film -- quality entertainment that doesn't pretend to be anything but a good time. Everything about it is stellar. It's timeless.

>>719201725 (OP)
contrarianism

>>719201725 (OP)
Contrarianism and dumbass zoomer/alphas being dumbasses

Also, Ayla best girl

>>719210343
As I said earlier, all jrpgs are shit with no gameplay. I never implied Chrono nigger is good, just that it's better than 99% of jrpgs, which isn't saying much.

>>719210705
But enough about WRPGs. Dialogue trees are not gameplay.

>>719211028
You never played a proper crpg in your life. It was never about story or dialogs - it's about party management, character building and tactical combat, with environmental puzzles thrown into the mix.

>>719211237
Not him, but JRPGs have all of those except arguably tactics combat. And there still is some tactical combat. Just not exactly like Ultima. Which for the record, Ultima is really slow and annoying to play because of that system. Likewise, there's plenty of WRPGs without tactical combat. Later WRPGs play more like Final Fantasy XII than they do CRPGs.

millennials need to realize that its okay that younger people dont like their shit
like yes we get it that a black and white silent film has artistic merit and did a lot for the medium
that doesnt mean i want to watch black and white silent films

because you only discuss vidya on /v/ and contrarianism is more rampant than it's ever been. it's actually insufferable.

The best JRPG on SNES is Lufia 2. FF6 and CT are overrated.

>>719213076
Not a good analogy because silent films ended in the 1930s. And there's a resurgence of zoomers getting into them. While Millennials obsess over 1980s movies.

>>719202150
It has become a fine cheese only appreciated by those with exquisite taste?

>>719201725 (OP)
It's overrated 90s trash fueled by nostalgia along with Fallout 2.

>>719212959
>JRPGs have all of those
You have no idea what jrpgs are, which is for good desu.

Jrpgs don't let you create or develop a character to your liking - all stat gains are random or scripted. The combat in them are always utter shit Wizardry ripoff with most of the strategy achieved by variative spell effects and class actions snipped away, there are exceptions to this rule that has proper Goldbox-like combat but they usually escape being called jrpgs and are called trpgs instead, like Tactics Ogre.
I also know of no jrpg with environmental puzzles aside from Etrian Odyssey and early Megami Tensei games, but again - these games are not jrpgs because they have both character building (even if it's very primitive) and party management.

>>719213076
>yes we get it that a black and white silent film has artistic merit and did a lot for the medium
a large portion of silent films are lost, the lower quality ones no longer exist to compare with the good ones or w/e was good enough to be worth saving
zoomers will play through and bitch about persona 5 being 100~ hours but can't handle chrono trigger requiring 0 grind / multiple endings / beatable in under 20~ hours
>that doesnt mean i want to watch black and white silent films
why play a snes game with modern PCs/consoles right?

>>719213596
I second this. Fallout 2 is bloatware and the story is utter slapstick comedy shit, New Reno and Myron were the only good things about it.

>>719201725 (OP)
Because zoomers are old enough now to go online and say retarded shit about stuff they don't understand and that's exactly what they do

>>719201725 (OP)
Generation Z literally hates everything

>>719201725 (OP)
I just replayed CT a week ago after more than a dozen years since my 2-3rd playthrough or whatever.
Is it a good game?? absolutely! amazing OST still to this day and a lot of great feels and moments, but is it a masterpiece? HEEELL NO.
Even the plot isnt that great. Just a typical save the future from destruction by altering the past. Thats not original in 2025.. maybe it was 30 years ago

>>719213787
>Jrpgs don't let you create or develop a character to your liking - all stat gains are random or scripted.
Some of them do at the same amount as a WRPG. And most WRPGs don't let you "create a character to your liking" either. You can customize the characters appearance and stats limited to the parameters that the games creators give you. They're scripted in WRPGs as well.

This argument is always stupid. It's basically people screaming "WRPGs are more of an RPG because it let's you control 3% of the games decisions while JRPGs only let you control 1%!"
>I also know of no jrpg with environmental puzzles aside from Etrian Odyssey and early Megami Tensei games, but again - these games are not jrpgs because they have both character building (even if it's very primitive) and party management.
Lufia, Illusion of Gaia, Golden Sun, etc. And you just disproved your own argument again. "Okay, I found some JRPGs that disprove my point. So I just won't count them as JRPGs."

>>719213787
You literally don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Lots of have both character building and party management.

>>719214343
The plot wasn't original back when it came out either. However, a plot doesn't have to be original to be good. Taking common themes and refining them to be as good as possible is better than just doing something shocking but stupid. This is what makes Final Fantasy 5 and Chrono Trigger better than Final Fantasy 4.

>>719213076
>millennials need to realize that its okay that younger people dont like their shit
This. I'm not going to pretend some janky ass Zelda game from 30 years ago is the greatest game ever made just because Millennials were blown away by it when they were ten.

>>719215448
As long as you don't think the modern Zeldas are good either. Then you'd just be an idiot who only cares about cutscenes and flashy graphics. And tons of games are better at that than modern Zelda as well.

Part of the reason people still marvel at Ocarina is that it had better composition and scene direction than the later games. The other people who prefer the old 2D Zeldas prefer them because they did a type of gameplay Zelda just doesn't do anymore.

>>719214767
Name one.
I'll say ahead that if you do, said game is not jrpg. An rpg made in Japan =/= jrpg, jrpg means shit like FF & Mother - an open world adventure game with barebones rpg mechanics. For example, Wizardry Gaiden aren't jrpgs.

>>719214690
>And most WRPGs don't let you "create a character to your liking" either.
I can only think of two - Dungeon Master and Stonekeep. Even then, it's mostly adventure games, and it still has character building based on player actions, e.g. you shoot bow you get bow skill. Dungeon Master also lets you take the characters reincarnated - with no skills, but increased stats - that's already more than jrpgs let you.

>This argument is always stupid. It's basically people screaming "WRPGs are more of an RPG because it let's you control 3% of the games decisions while JRPGs only let you control 1%!"
These things are what define crpg as a genre. Game doesn't have them or have them at a rudimentary level - game's not an rpg. That's why jrpgs are no rpgs.

>They're scripted in WRPGs as well.
In which ones? In Wizardry 1-7 stat gains/losses were based on how much of said stat you have - if it's high you have a chance of upping it, if low you may lose it.

>You can customize the characters appearance and stats limited to the parameters that the games creators give you.
That's not jrpg then.
Mother don't let you do that.
FF don't let you do that.
Pokemon don't let you do that.
No game labeled as jrpg lets you do that. Do I need to keep it coming?

>And you just disproved your own argument again. "Okay, I found some JRPGs that disprove my point. So I just won't count them as JRPGs."
Read the first part of my reply. Rpg made in Japan =/= jrpg. Those two games I mentioned walk a tightrope of being them due to, but still aren't.

>>719216636
*due to simplifying rpg mechanics

>>719216636
So by your logic, KOTOR and Mass Effect are JRPGs. And JRPGs are just this nebulous concept only you can define. But sure, I'll totally go with your definition over the actual developers.

>>719205893
FFX and Persona 5 probably at this point

>>719216636
an rpg made in japan is literally the only definition of a jrpg

>>719216812
>KOTOR and Mass Effect
I don't know, the only bioware game I played is bg1. Good combat, garbo quests - especially once you arrive at Baldur's Gate itself.

>>719216962
You are retarded.

>>719209642
>Sin is totally not inspired by Lavos
correct, Sin actually has a presence in the story.

>>719217003
No U.

>>719217003
>You are retarded.
Not him, but prove him wrong. JRPG isn't a "style." It's a classification of where it's made. One, because that's how the original term came about in the 90s when stupid western journalists coined the phrase. But two, because there's dozens of genres under the JRPG classification. Which people have been trying to explain to you. But you just ignore their examples. And have already admitted to not having played most of them or even fucking KOTOR/Mass Effect. So you're about as big of an expert on RPGs as I am on RTS.

>>719217363
Nobody ever used that term in the 90s. It didn't start getting used until the early aughts after Xbox came out we started getting shit like Morrowind on console.

>>719217237
>reeee I dont know what the fuck jrpgs is
Is Septerra Cora not a jrpg? According to you, it isn't, despite checking all marks for being one gameplay-wise.

>>719217363
>JRPG isn't a "style." It's a classification of where it's made.
You are wrong.

>how the original term came about in the 90s
It's not 90s anymore. As years passed many western games started copying jrpg's gameplay staples, hence... making jrpgs.

>even fucking KOTOR/Mass Effect
And you haven't played Wizardry - a series that defined crpgs. Or Gold Box games. Or Wasteland. Or Ultima. Or Dungeon Master. You literally have no right to speak on this topic, get out of here together with your npc games by a company that started out by making a mid Gold Box clone.

>>719217363
>JRPG isn't a "style."
JRPG is a genre. N niggas in a row.

>>719218356
No.

Lately? I've been saying it's grossly overrated for decades

>>719218356
Can't tell if people who say "jrpg can only be from japan" are baiting or genuine morons.

JRPG is not a "style", JRPG just means an RPG made in Japan, which is also a very broad umbrella of games, it's not just turn based combat games with a party of characters. I do not know why this label exists and I'd rather stick to RPG.

>>719218587
It stands for Japanese role playing game, right? How can it be Japanese if it’s not Japanese?

>>719217693
Journalists were separating between Japanese RPGs and Western RPGs back on the SNES with games like FF4-6 and Secret of Mana.
>>719217779
>And you haven't played Wizardry - a series that defined crpgs.
I have plated Wizardry. And it's a bad example to bring up since Wizardry was a major influence on the earliest JRPGs. Dragon Quest, Phantasy Star and some PC only games. And the last half dozen Wizardry games were made by a Japanese company. Did they stop being "WRPGs" because a Japanese company made them? If so, you just destroyed your own definition of what a JRPG is. If not, then you're proving that JRPG is a classification of where it's made, not the style or gameplay. But you already took a position on this argument by claiming some WRPGs are like JRPGs. Which is true. But it swings both ways. And you can say something like Dragon Quest is closer to a CRPG these days than most WRPGs are. Because it still retains a lot of the systems it had back when it copied Ultima and Wizardry.

>>719218587
it's true though. Expedition 33 for example is a JeRPG, not JRPG

I just woke up, opened bedroom window shutter, turned on the light and made coffee. Heard a weird noise from my bedroom. A neighborhood cat just jumped into my bedroom then ran through the apartment scared shitless and tried to jump out from the kitchen window but the shutter was half closed so it got stuck. It looked at me so scared and confused. I couldn't get it to calm down so I could get it to exit back to the garden side, so he just jumped out into the streets side where it might get into trouble. I thought it was a burglar or some shit. That was so fucking weird.

Anyway JRPGs suck.

>>719205893
expedition 33

>>719218356
>JRPG is a genre. N niggas in a row.
Problem is, there's hundreds of JRPGs that don't use characters in a line. And other people (idiots) think JRPG is a tone thing. Or a game with anime characters. Or a certain type or storytelling. And if you think any of these are what makes a JRPG, you have to then claim a bunch of western games are "JRPGs." As well as Korean and Chinese.

JRPG were never good, but they were the only games that did world building and had nicer cutscenes, when normal games started addin those JRPGs became obsolete, it's that simple.

>Chrono Trigger is actually bad!
It's good, people saying it aged like shit or whatever other stupid horseshit are talking out of their ass. It's just extremely basic, a JRPG for people who don't like or don't know JRPGs.
CT was also the "I'm not a huge fan of JRPGs but Chrono Trigger..." game. It does just enough to distance itself from 4 Niggas In A Row to be unique and stand out but not enough to completely detach itself.

I'm convinced this "JRPG" term is a psyop of some kind. I never heard anyone use it until the 2010s. In the 2000s everyone just called them RPGs

>>719218669
One could argue that JRPG is a "style" but again, Japanese RPGs do not all follow the same template. Not all of them are turn based. Not all of them are set in a fictional place. Not all of them have a party of characters. The RPG label is already stretched out very thin, the least a JRPG should do is be Japanese.

>>719201890
3PBP

>>719201725 (OP)
They haven't, you just spend time on 4chan where contrarians shit on anything popular and there's a few dedicated autists routinely making threads saying it actually isn't good. People still consider it one of the best RPGs of all time.

>>719218904
I was in high school in 1998-2002 and we were using the term then. The earliest example someone has posted online is from a European magazine from 1994 or something, talking about Final Fantasy. And calling it a Japanese RPG. But by the time Pokemon and Final Fantasy VIII came out in the west in 1998 the term was firmly established. At least with hardcore gamers.

>>719201725 (OP)
I have turn based fatigue

>>719214343
It was one of the first ever epic RPG of its kind. I don't get what you people expect. If time makes a game not so great okay whatever I guess but then you guys all better apply that to your favorite modern games once its time for them to not be seen as great do to the passage of time.

I would say among SNES games CT is top 10 at least. Along with FFVI, Super Metroid, MMX, DKC, Super Mario World, Super Castlevania IV to name a few others. I also don't get this disdain for simpler stories. They worked and still work for a reason. Often when people want 2deep4u shit the games come across as not as deep as people think or cringe to me. People praise TLOU and I just don't see the appeal of Druckman's shit. The game never interested me beyond acknowledging it looks great graphically and I am sure the shooting gameplay is quite good. But the story never ever interested me nor the characters.

>>719219106
>But by the time Pokemon and Final Fantasy VIII came out in the west in 1998 the term was firmly established. At least with hardcore gamers.
Eh, I remember it differently. We were calling them console RPGs back then, as opposed to computer RPGs

the vast majority of jrpgs are hardly rpgs at all

>>719201725 (OP)
No, it's a classic.

>>719218673
>And it's a bad example to bring up since Wizardry was a major influence on the earliest JRPGs
Despite that, it as far from your typical jrpg as a game can be - class actions, strong emphasis on environmental puzzles and proper character creation.

>Phantasy Star
Do you consider that game a good example of a jrpg with environmental puzzles?

https://www.pscave.com/ps1/dungeons/
Here's dungeon maps from Phantasy Star 1. Now go compare them to Wizardry 1's first fucking level - it looks more complex than the entirety of this shit.


>Did they stop being "WRPGs" because a Japanese company made them?
Did you just casually supported my point? Lmao.
That's what I fucking told you - Japanese rpg =\= jrpg. Read my older posts, I said just that - "for example, Wizardry Gaiden aren't jrpgs"
A country of origin plays no role in defining an rpg as jap or western - it's all about mechanics, or, in case of jrpgs, lack of them.

>>719219285
Phantasy Star also has three world maps with towns and dungeons to explore, and is pretty open ended. That adds complexity to the exploration.

>>719213127
Based Lufia CHAD

>>719201725 (OP)
Chrono Trigger is the only JRPG with actual pacing and actual quality, it didn't JUST age better than every other one, it is better than even modern ones.

>>719202007
Not really

>>719219513
That's not environmental puzzles.
Still, bet that Wizardry 5's fourth level is more complex than the entirety of what that world map has to offer.

>>719206064
>there's nothing to explore
Good, what is there to explore in other jrpgs? Shitty combat encounters with shitty items and like one or two lines of dialogue? JRPGs were always dead and empty even compared to modern open world games somehow. Who the fuck needs a sword +7 that doesn't even display on your character? Or some dumb accessory. This isn't real gaming, this is stat bullshit. Good thing it isn't here.

>>719219868
What's so complicated about that map?

>>719219285
>Do you consider that game a good example of a jrpg with environmental puzzles?
I was referring to it having gameplay obviously copying Wizardry. And you know that's what i meant. The fact that you have to deflect to a completely different topic from like 4 posts ago shows how disingenuous your argument is.
>A country of origin plays no role in defining an rpg as jap or western - it's all about mechanics, or, in case of jrpgs, lack of them.
At which point you just destroyed both possible definitions. Because there are games made in Japan with Western mechanics and games made in the west with Japanese mechanics. But you refuse to call the western games with Japnese mechanics JRPGs. They're this magical other thing. Because you just want to single out JRPG as bad. And any time I provide an example of a WRPG that goes against your definition, you magically haven't played it.

>>719202007
The story is only "generic" because it was relentlessly copied after it was released. It's like how if you watch Citizen Kane today, you will have no appreciation for its use of the montage because even though it was one of the first movies to ever use, you've seen montages so often you think they're merely a given.

>>719219945
>Because there are games made in Japan with Western mechanics and games made in the west with Japanese mechanics
That's what I'm fucking telling you. You tarded or something?
First, there were Japanese openworld adventure games like FF with barebones rpg mechanics and mostly linear progression - they defined what jrpgs are gameplay-wise, and western devs been copying that formula, hence making jrpgs.
At the same time, it's not necessary for a jap to make a shit game like FF, they can make good rpgs too - that's what Wizardry Gaidens are, wrpg made in Japan.

>But you refuse to call the western games with Japanese mechanics JRPGs
Are you fucking retarded, dyslexic, or mistook me with another anon? I didn't refuse to call them that, that's EXACTLY what I called them! Holy shit, you ought to be trolling. I literally said in one of my posts that Septerra Core is a jrpg.

> you magically haven't played it
Which ones - kotor and mass effect? Are you claiming these games are more rpgs than Wizardry, Ultima, or even something like Fallout 1-2 or Baldur's Gate? I just can't stop laughing at you. I don't have to play these shit bioware games to know what rpg is, I'm good with playing actual rpgs like Pool of Radiance and Wizardry 6, or even light rpgs like the Ultima Underworld dilogy.

>>719219940
Play the game without walkthroughs and draw the map yourself instead of looking it up on the internet, and you'll find out.

I think it's a good game, but it is far from the best game on the SNES. It is very overrated. There are JRPGs on the same system with better combat, music, and story.

>>719220805
I'm sure when you're playing it's hard to work through because of many random encounters with large enemy groups, but the map itself doesn't seem to be anything especially complicated. You have to use some items in some places and solve a riddle or two I guess.

>>719220805
>draw the map yourself
hell no, unless the game has a map system like EO if there's no automap I'm not playing it. shit makes pacing glacial

It's always a no brainer comparison, why play Chrono trigger generic turn based slop when you could play action based Secret of Mana?

>>719219285
>game's levels are giant labyrinthine mazes
>this automatically means it's better and peak level design
why are smoothbrains like this?

>>719219868
It's literally a basic bitch etrian odyssey map.

>>719201725 (OP)
Because faggot baiting newfags can only speak in contrarian terms
>ummm, the good game is ackshually LE BAD because... Because it is, okay?

>>719219868
Meanwhile, Strange Journey

>>719220652
>First, there were Japanese openworld adventure games like FF with barebones rpg mechanics and mostly linear progression
Dragon Quest and Phantasy Star came before Final Fantasy. And "openworld but mostly linear" is a contradiction. You seriously sound like a schizo. Which tracks with a lot of your other arguments that keep flip flopping. And changing what other people's arguments are, then accusing them of flipping your points.

I guess you guys enjoy arguing with trolls, huh?

>>719221120
Yeah sometimes

>>719221120
That's life (on 4chan).

>>719220876
Again, I can tell you haven't played the game - there are traps like twisters and anti magic fields that dispell your compass. There are also sections that have openings that end up on the other side of the map and dark spots in which compass is your only orientation source, and it's very easy to run out of spell points for it unless you got the super expensive Figurine.

>>719221010
Already talked about Megaten series in one of my posts. Not a jrpg, hence why the level design so based.

>Dragon Quest and Phantasy Star came before Final Fantasy.
Same gameplay. Your point?

>"openworld but mostly linear" is a contradiction
Chrono trigger is the definition of that. You can play different timeline order each playthroughs, but the story holds your hand on exactly where to go better next.

>You seriously sound like a schizo.
Dude, I already told you either mistook me for someone or can't read. Quote my post in which I said "japs cant make wrpgs" or "whites cant make jrpgs". I never said that, I said the exact opposite.

>>719221024
>>719221570

>>719221570
>You can do things out of order, but it still holds your hand and tells you what to do
Literally a schizo. Also, by your logic, Ultima is a linear game. So it must be a JRPG.

>>719201725 (OP)
Have they?

>>719221570
>You can play different timeline order each playthroughs
What? I don't think this is true like at all

>>719221660
Ultima has a fuckton of side quests. It's as non-linear as a game can be, even Underworld games qualify for that. Jrpgs have no side quests, just what's necessary to keep the storyline going.

>>719221570
>Again, I can tell you haven't played the game
Well yeah, that's why I was baiting you into telling me about it. I'm genuinely curious and will get around to playing the game eventually. Looked up a guide's explanation and it didn't sound all that complex.

Thanks for the explanation, sounds cool. I was never trying to say Phantasy Star has more complicated dungeons than Wizardry, just saying that when comparing them you've got to take into account finding the right dungeons and stuff as part of the whole puzzle of the game. The dungeons themselves are mostly simple mazes with some pits, chests, and npcs (though there's some hidden doors and other stuff too).

>>719201725 (OP)
I think Chrono Trigger is a perfectly fine game, but my personal favorite JRPG from 1995 is Lufia 2.

>>719201725 (OP)
finally played it, didn't really like it

>>719221715
Memory might deceive me, but I remember timelines were in an optional order. Some of them at least.

>>719201725 (OP)
1. Chrono Trigger
2. Phantasy Star IV
3. Final Fantasy 6
Still the goat of that era.

has anyone ever made like, a hard mode romhack of CT? Love the game to death but It'd be much better if the combat had some actual bite to it

>>719221902
Can't you just underlevel? That seems to be where the real difficulty comes from, considering how tanky the bosses are.

>>719221863
Great taste, those are my top 3 RPGs across all eras.
>>719221902
They've made a bunch, but I haven't tried them so I couldn't tell you which are any good. Chrono Trigger Enhansa Edition and Lavos' Awakening are two big ones to check out though.

>>719222026
not really, lots of encounters are basically unavoidable and doing just the bare minimum of fights levels you out pretty reasonably because that's how I play every time. I guess I could just run away from most fights but that's lame

>>719222105
Ah. It has been a while since I last played through CT. It's a damn good game though, I ended up shelling out for an SNES copy.

>>719222037
>Chrono Trigger Enhansa Edition and Lavos' Awakening are two big ones to check out though.
perfect, thanks anon I'll check em out next time I get the itch to play.

The Cross remaster emboldened quite a few contrarians.

It’s pretty mediocre. Unironically baby’s first rpg. Worse yet, it’s very popular with southern Americans, who to my guess saw the the cover and thought they were getting Dragon Ball

>>719202580
But FF7 actually did age poorly. It's ugly, it's slow, and its biggest selling point (the CGI videos) are horribly dated. It doesn't hold up the way FF6 does and it isn't even the best Final Fantasy game on the Playstation.

CT still looks great, it plays great, and the plot is interesting.

>>719222204
it's not very pretty graphically but the pacing is fine, FF8 and 9 are much worse about loading into battles.

>>719221757
>Ultima has a fuckton of side quests. It's as non-linear as a game can be
>Jrpgs have no side quests,
Dragon Quest is all about side quests. Where do you think they got it from? The creator himself literally said it comes from Ultima. And early FF games also had a ton of them. Often the FF games from 1-6, the post game would be hours of side quests. Even fucking Chrono Trigger has a dozen side quests.

But here comes the exceptions. "Those aren't true sidequests because they don't fit my idea of a side quest. Also I never actually played the games so I don't know what I'm talking about."

>>719222204
THANK YOU, 7 is so boring it's unreal. I loved 6, and played through it for about 40 hours. Did the majority of the sidequests too. 7 just drags and drags and drags. Even when I used the triple speed feature of the newer versions, that opening still felt way too slow. I stopped playing after about two hours, it's just too dull. Even SMT3, which I also wasn't a huge fan of, kept me going for about 12 or so hours before I quit.

>>719222318
by side quests you mean fetch quests

JRPG quests are universally junk

>>719222353
>I stopped playing after two hou-

Opinion discarded

>>719221853
After the mid point of the game you can do some things in order. And then in the last third of the game there's tons of optional things you can do in any order or even just skip.
>>719222204
I don't thin kFF6 held up. A lot of the things you claimed about FF7 also apply to FF6. FF5 holds up better than it. Not just graphically but also characters and gameplay.

>>719222318
Not really FFs 1 through 4 don't have that many side quests. 5 and 6 do make most of the merged and ruined worldsd optional.

>>719222419
If Steam thinks two hours is good enough to judge a game before refund, why can't I?

>>719222369
The irony when most of Ultima's main quests are fetch quests. "B-bt that's different because it wasn't made in Japan. So it's good!" Yeah, having to walk across the whole map to talk to a bard to get a key is real deep gameplay. However will a JRPG surpass it...oh wait. That's exactly the same as Dragon Quest 1.

>>719222204
Personally I think FFVII holds up great. It even looks good to me still. The CGI might be dated, but doesn't look bad and the backgrounds are amazing still. The blocky lego people are simple but they're charming and expressive. Battle graphics look nice as they always did. I don't find the game slow either, especially not compared to other Playstation RPGs.

>>719222289
FF9 is salvageable by playing on emulator with a speed-up button. FF7 doesn't really have that luxury. It's an iconic game but it doesn't hold up anywhere near as well as CT or FF6,

>>719222527
>Dragon Quest 1
Why are you calling it this? It's Dragon Warrior 1 unless you live in Japan.

>>719222489
FF4 has a fuck ton of side quests. Collecting all the optional summons and weapons, optional bosses and so on. Which FF3 did the same thing. Then FF5 and 6 did the same thing again.

>>719221757
When you say stuff like this you have to somehow argue that things like SaGa games aren't actually JRPGs and it just gets silly.

>>719222506
You only played 4% of the game.

>>719222601
They're all Dragon Quests in Europe as VIII was the first of its series to officially be released here.

>>719222318
>>719222527
>"Those aren't true sidequests because they don't fit my idea of a side quest.
Listen to this >>719222353 dude.
Ultima 6 makes you craft a hot air balloon, play a tune with your number keys, and solve witty riddles inside dungeons. Ultima Underworld 1 made you fucking decypher a lizardmen language by body language of a mute prisoner.
None of your beloved shitty games came close to that.

>>719222601
I know you're joking. But it was renamed Dragon Quest 1 when it got re-released in the west. And is getting a remake next year.

>>719222601
lol typical American

>>719222660
Well, I did not care for that 4 percent very much.

>>719222604
4 has what, the pink tails for adamant armour but not much else.

Which RPG would be ideal for me?
>RPG without magic
>RPG without fairies and without magical creatures
>RPG without wizards
>Anti-Pokemon RPG
>RPG where you never have to grind
>RPG where leveling is ultra-instant
>RPG where it's impossible to get stuck
>I play on emulators for: Dreamcast, PSP, Sega Genesis (Mega Drive), and PlayStation 1

>>719222697
Whoops, wrong post. Meant this one >>719222369

>>719222697
>Ultima 6 makes you craft a hot air balloon, play a tune with your number keys, and solve witty riddles inside dungeons.
There are JRPGs with puzzles and crafting. But again, as you've pointed out many times, you never played them. I can also point out many CRPGs and WRPGs without those features.

Just admit you want to hate on JRPGs. But know nothing about them.

>>719222745
Sylph Cave where you find Yang and can talk to his wife to get the Spoon
Bahamut's Lair
Land of the Summoned Monsters (fighting Leviathan and Asura)
Making Excalibur by getting ore with the Rat Tail
Fighting Odin

There's a decent number of secret side areas too, but those are the sidequests I remember. If you're counting the pink tails, you can also hunt secret summon drops and some other rare items, but that's not really a sidequest.

>>719222450
I actually agree that 5 is a masterpiece. I used 6 as an example here because it's actually a lot closer to 7 in the sense that it's also a very story- and character-driven game, whereas 5 is more like what Final Fantasy used to represent (and which is now relegated to far less popular series like Bravely Default). I do think 6 is prettier than 5, although it has uglier ports.

>>719222549
I do agree that the backgrounds look great, but I think that nostalgia plays a large role in how this game is presented today. I don't think it's bad, I just don't think it holds up as well as something like CT, which is legit beautiful and easy to pick up and play no matter what generation you're from. I also dislike what FF7 represents, which is a shift to games being driven more by anime cutscenes than by gameplay.

>>719222915
Like exploring Eblan Castle could probably be called a sidequest too

>>719222743
this is the correct way to play, wish I bailed earlier

>>719222743
>>719222982
You guys are infuriating

>>719222973
>although it has uglier ports.
I don't know why Square Enix seems determined to make ugly FF ports. Pixel Remasters at least look better than some of the previous stuff, but still worse than the originals in my opinion (for the most part anyway).

>>719222823
I played enough of them to know they're shit, and I'm not doing same mistakes twice.
I don't like dumbified Wizardry clones which is the great majority of jrpgs, I'd much rather play Wizardry itself, or a good clone like Etrian Odyssey or Megaten.

>>719221791
You should start with Wizardry 1-2-3 snes remakes. Make sure to play 3 after 1, and then 2, as Japs messed up the order of scenarios for some reason - Knight of Diamonds is actually the second one and Legacy of Llylgamyn is the third.

>>719223057
Thanks for the recommendation, the SNES remakes do look nice so I'll probably go with those. I started the original version of Wizardry 1 already, so I'm kind of determined to finish it that way, but I'll most likely swap to the SNES remakes for the others.

>>719223046
>be in a thread about an RPG known for its fast pacing and dynamic combat
>people in thread about said game prefer it to RPG known for slow pacing and relatively static combat
What a shocker

>>719222716
>re-released in the west
>moonrunes on the cover
sure thing buddy

>>719222697
I love how I referenced Ultima 1, but you jumped right to Ultima 6. Because you realize I'm right. The main quests in Ultima 1 are so bare bones and linear, you'd consider it a JRPG by your argument.

Also, Final Fantasy VII lets you play a piano with your controller. Various other JRPGs have dungeon puzzles. And a Dragon Quest game has you collect parts to make a balloon. But as usual, somehow it will all be "exceptions."

people who hate CT are the same who keep trying to reinvent the wheel because "its old and outdated"
literally retards who think that 30 years ago had the same technology we got today and that games looked like that because the developers are stupid/lazy

>>719223180
Dragon Quest I+II was announced for the west simultaniously with the Japanese. And the original game got re-released on ios and Switch.

>>719205893
Final Fantasy 7 it seems

>>719223216
It's mostly just contrarians who hate on it because it's popular. And most of them still like Chrono Trigger. They're just trying to get attention. Because the only way you get attention on 4chan and the internet at large is hate or contrarianism.

>>719223190
Ultima 1 is shit, but it has some character building and the Jester key quest is smart - already better than your average jrpg by a large mile. Crpgs started with Wizardry and everyone knows that.

>And a Dragon Quest game has you collect parts to make a balloon
Yeah, it stole that from U6.

>>719222973
>which is a shift to games being driven more by anime cutscenes than by gameplay.
I disagree with this in regards to FF7, as it manages to make use of it's gameplay very well to assist in the story telling IMO. Stuff like the Nibelheim flashback dragon fight showcasing the gulf in power from Cloud/Zack to Sephiroth, or the Jenova fight after Aeris/th gets stabbed playing Aeris' theme instead of the JENOVA boss music. not to mention stuff like the motorcycle escape, or the parade minigames.

>>719223320
>Ultima sucks. But it's still better than all those games I never played

>>719223474
It makes good use of music and environmental storytelling, but I felt many of the minigames were there as annoying padding. Especially the chocobo racing one, goddamn.

>>719223474
Outside of the Nibelheim flashback and getting wrecked by the midgar zolom it doesn't do that too often.

>>719223132
You mean the Apple 2 version? If you're at it, there's a cool clone called Silvern Castle for Apple 2 - it expands and alters some Wizardry 1-3/5 mechanics and adds stuff from Wiz 6-7 like weight and a swag bag, as well as minimap from snes ports. Too bad the level design is mostly shit in that one.
For Wizardry 6 you better play the dos version though, as that would let you import your party in 7.

>>719223574
>casul weeb seething

>>719201725 (OP)
Because it's a dragon Ball z ripoff. Rest in peace.

>>719223668
Only minigame I think is a complete waste of time and tonally bizarre is the snowboarding bit and maybe the RTS stuff at Fort Condor. Having a basically a slave class of jockies for your horse racing events for the people who can afford to go the golden saucer is pretty good stuff IMO.

>>719223720
*automap

>>719223216
Except play a modern JRPG like Expedition 33 or even Persona 5 and the gulf between them and CT is huge.

The JRPG genre was better when it was based around pixel sprites and early PS1 3D visuals. This cannot be debated. After this the genre got cringe and gay.

>>719223720
>You mean the Apple 2 version?
Nah I started the dos one. Are there differences major enough to swap over for? I suppose if I'm going for playing the original, I should be playing the actual original version.

>>719223906
Chrono Trigger is better precisely because it doesn't have 40 hours of filler dialogue and slow 3D movement. Among other things. Dragon Quest is one of my favorite series. But Dragon Quest XI is everything bad with modern RPGs. Just hours upon hours of filler dialogue and linear areas/events.

>>719223980
Yeah I love Persona 5, but the scenes really can drag on.

>>719223980
P5 does have some filler dialogue but Expedition 33 has neither of those.

My cat won't listen to reason. What do I do?

>>719224229
Give him treats

>>719223927
Dos version looks better, but both let you import your party in the following scenarios. Not much of a difference there.

>>719224116
Expedition 33 totally has slow 3D movement and linear areas. the level design is actually entirely why the game doesn't have a map, because it'd expose just how much of each zone is just a very nice looking hallway.

>>719201725 (OP)
most that rag on it are the same redditor types that jumped the "geek culture" bandwagon and want to feel "more enlighten" when they cry about this game and a few others. Just contrarian faggots.

>>719224229
Water bottle filled with your own urine. He'll learn dominance if you spray everything with your scent.

>>719224754
Don't bother spraying. What you've got to do is drink that bottle in front of him. You have to show the cat you're willing to do something crazy.

because theres a hard push to say old bad new good, because new is actually bad and old is G R E A T and there is nothing new can do to remotely compare

>>719201725 (OP)
there's literally no logical way anyone can go against CT. it's a very solid game

>>719202072
mediocre compared to what? for its day it sold very well and got good reviews. you're incorrect

>>719202556
I don't like this game mechanic, therefore bad game!

>>719202636
factually incorrect, it sold worse and had worse reviews, not to mention continuity errors, poor mechanics and story.

>muh classic
its literally just not that fun

>>719202556
Try playing Suikoden. 6 niggas in a row, but you also get double/triple skills.

>>719201725 (OP)
Zoomers finally got around to emulating it and came to this conclusion >>719201810

It’s just not a very good game. You watch trigger do the helicopter ten times and that’s basically your battle system for the next 13 hours

Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 6, 7 and 9; all very bad games. The graphics are just poor and all the games are super generic, there is no story. Unfortunately these games just don't hold up against modern JRPG masterpieces like Genshin Impact, Persona 5 and Final Fantasy 14.

>>719227259
This, I am a zoomer (23) and JRPGs are my kryptonite.
SNES era JRPGs look generic and boring to me, I think it's because I assosciate them with rpg maker games, which I've also never liked. I think FF7 holds up much more in terms of visuals.
I nearly finished FF7 and 8, but got too burned out and stopped playing because I needed to load earlier saves and re-do shit in both (ran out of healing potions in 7 before some important battle and played 8 entirely with summons so I was stuck at the end).
I forced myself to finish Super Mario RPG and have nothing positive or negative to say.
I fucking HATE JRPG combat. It's the same monotonous garbage every single time. It feels like a pointless obstacle in the way of what is otherwise just a walking sim with tons of reading. I especially hate being forced into battles over and over.
I also don't care about the stories half the time. But I don't believe I ever played video games for their stories anyways.
Currently I am debating on whether to keep playing Chrono Trigger or not, I played up to the masamune fight but I just don't see the point of continuing. I will note, however, that any time I actually have to use my brain to figure shit out and the game doesn't just spam it with dopamine, I immediately lose interest and it becomes a slog for me. And I fucking it hate it, but I don't think I can be helped.

>>719230907
Really doesn't matter what you think. If you make a toddler listen Jimi Hendrix, of course he won't understand any of it. The same applies to you.

>>719230907
i think you are an old man with a weird psychotic hate for zoomers that has lead you to a 300 word essay falseflag. fcked up

>>719230907
>zoomer
>things FF7 holds up in any way
It was a 3d cinematic game before they figured out either 3d or cinematic. It looked like ass and was impossible to take remotely seriously, which is the entire point of JRPGs.

And all characters are the same besides ult

So how exactly it's more bearable, again?

I like Chrono Trigger's pacing. I tried playing a modern jrpg (Cold Steel 1) and it put me to sleep with all the nothing that was happening.

Tried out the ds version on an r4 few years back (outside statute of limitations jewtendo) it was boring and i gave up after 45 minutes. The combat especially is dogshit, trying to hybridise real time and turn based never works, i really dodn't like ff7 either

>>719230240
ironically chrono trigger is somehow more adhd friendly than genshin or ff14

>>719231219
Glad you are being ironic and not serious.

>>719231285
but fr it takes more time to beat ONE area in genshin than it takes to beat ff6

>>719202580
Really wish the game revolution review of ff7 was findable. They shit on the game as generic anime slop when it came out.

>>719231351
I don't play gacha mobile trash so I wouldn't know, I'm into video games myself.

>>719231351
ff6 takes 33 hours though?
https://howlongtobeat.com/game/3519

>>719231020
What is there to understand? Music is either fun or not fun.
>>719231029
hahaha
>>719231101
I dunno, I like the combination of 2d backgrounds with 3d models walking around, and the use of FMVs. I played lots of 90s/DOS games and it reminds me of them somewhat. The visuals of CT just don't stand out to me in any way, it's just generic pixel art.

>>719230907
I'm not reading all that.

>>719231415
CT does some coolest shit with things being drawn in different perspectives that no games do at all. Like castle of the demon lord or trial room being drawn with round perspective instead of perpendicular bullshit

>>719231524
tdlr he hates jrpg combat but keeps trying to play them for some reason, also he doesn't like to think and ran out of potions in ff7 and had to give up (lol)

>>719231571
I was burned out nigga. It was the part where you fight guys in suits in a pipe. I kept overwriting my save so I'd have to redo about an hour or more of the game to get to that point again and I just didn't want to bother anymore.
I keep trying because I can't tell if I truly don't like something or if it sucks

>>719231020
That's a bad comparison. Anyone of any generation can understand music, music is timeless. Games aren't.

>>719201725 (OP)
A bunch of zoomers who have never played it watched youtubers play it and decided that its over hyped slop while they spend 320 dollars on robux

>>719231714
and then you'll beat the game, decide it sucks and will argue with everyone on the internet? Ah now i recognize you as a fellow zoomer

>>719231774
ff music sucks, so is zelda music btw

>>719231714
imo if you don't have fun with chrono trigger then you probably don't like the genre. i played CT before social media existed so sitting down and mashing A to read a lil story was no big deal

>>719231858
I don't listen to game soundtracks.

>>719231883
I don't actually mind the reading (I've enjoyed VNs before). Hence why I felt like pushing through the combat to actually see more of the story, who knows, maybe I'll get interested. I even plan on getting back to FF8 and figuring out how to play it properly.. eventually
>>719231858
Bait

>>719231797
It’s always like this. I just don’t like your game bro. You don’t have to get all defensive about it.

Man, Chrono Cross fags don’t get this mad about it. You tell them you don’t like it and they’re like “ok cool. Have you tried Chrono trigger?”

You know why cuz they don’t care if you love it or not. You on the other hand build your entire childhood around this one game that you played and you think it’s the best thing ever cuz you never played anything else. You’re just a man child and nobody should ever take you seriously

>>719231774
Ah yes, of course, that's why all the 8 billion people on this world listen to doom metal, because everyone understands music on the same level and there's no difference between low IQ ghetto rap and J. S. Bach.

>>719231774
Mathematics is timeless too but that doesn't mean anyone of any generation can understand mathematics, you fucking massive gigaretard faggot. Dumbest guy online rn.

Pearls before swine

>>719201725 (OP)
Chro_o Tr_____

>>719232472
I don't know why you took so much offense to that. Music is timeless and anyone can enjoy it. Games and mathematics aren't like that. Do I have to explain things in no uncertain terms so you don't cry out your ass about it?

>>719233130
Mathematics is timeless and anyone can calculate it. Games are timeless and anyone can play and enjoy them. Shut the fuck up, you fucking mouthbreathing imbecile.

>>719233369
he's right though, with music, you just hit play, with games/math, you actually have to actively participate.

>>719233450
With games, you just hit buttons. With mathematics, you just hit play in your head. Nobody likes the shit music a brainlet like you listens to. Actually, you just admitted you don't even listen to music, it just plays in the background while you are completely mentally passive and absent. You don't actively participate music. That makes you one massively retarded fucking zoomer.

>>719201725 (OP)
They played the game.

>>719201725 (OP)
Cross is better

>>719233569
>meltie
I accept your concession.

>>719234278
Your junkie music is garbage.

>>719233569
I admitted to being a massively retarded zoomer earlier anyways. However, I actually love music. Now name your favorite bands faggot

>>719201725 (OP)
newgens getting filtered by the old jrpg formula and adamantly refusing to "grind" even though there's very little of it required, it's all about exploring but people expect to just mindlessly progress and the enemy difficulty to be tailored to that

>>719234437
But.. you don't have to grind in CT..

>>719234437
>Exploring
>In CT
???

>>719201725 (OP)
Bog standard contrarianism. You'll notice it a lot when you get older.

I was confused at first til I realized it only took 16 hours to finish and that’s why it’s popular with normalfags. They finally found an RPG that caters to them and they stuck to it like flies to glue.

>>719235570
Super Mario RPG is even more normie friendly though. It's shorter and you can negate damage / double your damage by pushing a button during fights.

>>719234565
That's his point, zoomies call any game that requires you to battle any amount of fights "grindy." If they aren't movie or action games, they go away, to play something like BG3, Fortnite or LoL.

>>719202056

Life is a satire, which is why I'm always laughing.

>>719201725 (OP)
Its just super overrated.
Chrono Trigger has good pacing and good music but everything else is shallow.

Chrono Trigger is the The Last of Us of JRPGs

I dont care if the gameplay is standard jrpg, its got some of the best music and atmosphere of any video game

>>719201725 (OP)
Still a goddamn masterpiece. I don't care what braindead zoomers think.

>>719236906
>and atmosphere of any video game
fuckin lol, retard boomer

>>719201725 (OP)

Good, but linear. Easy to pick up and play. Story is kind of generic, but that's only because it's similar to other JRPG story structures. Hard to feel attached to any of the characters unless they got a mini-arc like Frog or Magnus or... Lucca? I still think it's worth playing because it's not even a particularly long game and the DS/ PC ports have a much better translation. The Super Nintendo original really hurts the presentation, so I wonder if that's why their is some backlash against it as people only remember "ye olde tyme" speech and some other dumb shit that was censored or re-written for no reason.

It's a classic for what it achieves, while still remaining fairly streamlined compared to most action JRPGS from the same time period.

>>719236906
Also the time travelling is something I haven't really seen any other game do as well. Its such an amazing concept

>>719201810

It's about on par with something like Earthbound.

>>719236952
Uhm.. Ocarina of Time?

>>719236952
Uhm Radiant Historia?

Live a Live is way better despite being the "prototype"

>>719236952
Uhm. Vampire the Masquerade Redemption?

>>719201725 (OP)
just like mgs3 the older a game gets the more shit it gets a games gotta be really amazing to hold up

>>719202580
theres little rpgs there

>>719222204
>the best Final Fantasy game on the Playstation.
based tik tacs enjoyer

>>719201725 (OP)
This game, Earthbound, Ocarina of Time, Symphony of the Night, Super Metroid, Super Mario 64:
all overrated, obsolete crap.

>>719222353
>Even SMT3, which I also wasn't a huge fan of, kept me going for about 12 or so hours before I quit
someone got raped by a little skully man and raged

cause that's one of the current themes on the memo the discord mods get from langley

>>719223906
>Persona 5
thats shit
33
is just ff10 with dragoon

>>719218752
Yeah This.
JRPG is not a genre and never will be.

>>719230907
>ran out of healing potions in 7 before some important battle and played 8 entirely with summons so I was stuck at the end
Look buddy, I get that the genre isn’t for everyone and some have very arbitrary or personal reasons to be into them in the first place. But you must be genuinely retarded if these were the problems you ran into playing FF games... Like how?!

>>719206126
Those games are shit compared to CT.

>>719206064
Yuck, what the fuck are those sprites!

>>719213127
Lufia 2 is good but is still inferior to FF6 and CT. It's the only other RPG that comes close to them on the SNES, though. Phantasy Star IV for the genesis also comes close.

>>719239702
Only Earthbound is overrated. All of the other games that you listed deserve their praise.

>>719201725 (OP)
It's for picky eaters that have a five minute freakout session over the most basic RPG mechanics and have only ever played this, Pokemon, and the Mario RPGs.

>>719241457
Well, in my defense, using summons early on is OP and since I was on an emulator I could speed up their animations.
As for FF7, I was just lazy to re-do a section of the game lmao, that's entirely on me
I am afraid I might indeed be retarded irl.

>>719240051
JRPG is literally a genre, like not just a "game genre" its about tone, tropes, artstyle, and gameplay. it's closer to a film genre than it is to a standard game genre, in that its not just limited to its mechanics to define it.

>>719241824
earthbound feels dated even compared to NES rpgs.

>>719201725 (OP)
Wtf is Gogeta doing there

>>719242183
To me, Earthbound felt like a dragon quest game with all of the things that I enjoy about dragon quest stripped out of it and replaced with "wacky jokes." I did enjoy the final battle in Earthbound, though. Having to pray to beat the final boss instead of attacking it was pretty cool and unique.

I think people realized it's just a very soulful and fun game, but it has serious writing issues even for JRPG standards and a lot of people were force-fed the "fact" that Chrono Trigger is the best of all times.
Ocarina also faces a lot of backlash nowadays but it's much more consistent within its own genre than CT is, so it still stands high.

>>719242445
>Earthbound felt like a dragon quest game with all of the things that I enjoy about dragon quest stripped out of it and replaced with "wacky jokes."
I think it was partially the intention, wasn't it? The creator wanted to satirize some aspects of games and subvert tropes with more pop culture references and a different kind of setting compared to the usual fantasy stuff back then.
The kind of pop culture reference Earthbound has was much more enjoyable in a pre-Internet culture. Wouldn't land very well today.

>>719242560
Everyone that I know IRL that played CT growing up still loves it. The only backlash that this game is getting is from contrarian streamers and youtubers "trying to correct the record" in order to drive rage engagement to their shitty channels.

>>719241457
Reading stuff like that makes me really believe devs back then (and today) receive a lot of feedback saying their games are legit hard and must me more accessible.

>>719242695
I remember renting it as a kid and I didn't like it. However, I played it all of the way through for the first time a few years ago and thought it was alright. I don't think it's nearly as good as CT, FF6, Dragon Quest V, or Lufia 2.

>>719201725 (OP)
>why nufags are retarded

>>719242849
Its merit was indeed being le quirky different JRPG when there were almost none for comparison.
Now we live in an era this was done a lot and even Earthbound itself was copied to death and it lost much of its initial charm.
It was an interesting think to deposit your money in an actual ATM despite the fact you could store your gil/gold/zenny in a bank NPC to not be penalized in case of wiping not being something new at all.

>>719242560
I really think that ocarina mostly gets attacked by the new audience botw attracted who never played it.
Its definitive of what Zelda was for decades, next to ALTTP, which is also getting lambasted more often these days even though its still excellent.

>>719201725 (OP)
Millenial Reddit garbage

Earthbound == FF6 > CT

CT would be rated higher if the difficulty wasn't toned down to retarded western standards. Only one time you had to utilize some strategy using magic, but you can pretty much spam physical attacks with ayla and robo and win the game, or use their tri attack and do it even faster.

>>719243129
I remember I wiped to that mud imp leading to Zeal once and I can't even begin imagining why.

>>719243129
Queen Zeal was tougher than any fight in FF6. There are no tough fights in that game because espers make everyone extremely OP.

>oh okay it's only 20 hours I could make it through that
>finally get to see what the hype was all about
>bored to tears after 8
I'm sure it was "good for its time" but in this day and age you need either nostalgia or a lobotomy to get anything out of it.

>>719243216
There are no modern games with such ambition and scope desu.
the only ones who are like it are also from the SNES era, like Terranigma.

>>719243216
I'm curious about the honest opinion about it people playing it for the first time today have.
Personally not one to replay older stuff I have good memories but I have this feeling even JRPG writing in general got better since the 90s, despite all the coomer baiting that intensified as a side distraction.

>>719243284
Terranigma has grand scope and ambition but it worked against it a lot of the time. I found running back and forth talking to NPCs in order to develop photography or some shit really tedious. I put up with it because I enjoyed the batshit insane story.

I played FF6 and CT, both were grossly overrated; repetitive, shallow, held back by technical limitations
I played FF7 and FF9, both were insanely good from start to finish
Just the way it is, boomers lost

>>719243567
>boomers lost
CT was released only a few years prior to FF7. You act like an entire generation passed. The same people that enjoyed CT/FF6 enjoyed FF7 - 9.

>>719243418
Developing the world is entirely optional.
I enjoyed it because I liked seeing the humans react to it, both positively and negatively.
And that giga nigger just going AHHHHHHHHGGHH while cucking the inventor of the phone was hilarious.
I think it served its purpose in slowing down the pace but the human part is overall arguably too long compared to the others before it.
the early parts of the game are sublime and after that everything goes crazy REALLY fast.

>>719243567
>FF9
>good from start to finish
bait

>>719243567
FF7 is so ugly, the game actually looks worse than SNES RPGs like Mario RPG, i can't believe people ever thought it looked good.

>>719243567
All those four are boomer games only few years apart from each other. Besides, it's a studied fact zoomer IQ's are way lower than boomer IQ's, so there's no losing in any situation, except on TikTok views.

>>719244062
FF7 has beautiful backgrounds and more variety in those than SNES era RPGs.
The models are pretty damn shit and people just dealt with those.
By FF8 you had great background and really good PS1 models.

>>719243169
wiped?

>>719241973
>I am afraid I might indeed be retarded irl.
I respect your honesty.
Also, I wonder how early you would throw in the towel in a SaGa game

>>719243567
Could the SNES have done better than FF6 and CT? Probably not.

Don't mind me, I just want to make more Chrono related edits.

>>719201725 (OP)
its overrrated. its by no means a bad game, but its not the crown jewel of its era like its purported to be

>>719244735
Want me to try?

>>719244387
FF7 looks like shit compared to the glorious pixel art in FF6 and CT. Nearly all early 3D PS1 games look like trash nowadays. Pixel art is timeless. It looks better with age especially compared to all of the indie games that desperately try to capture the aesthetic and fail.

>>719245310
I think it's considered a gem because it's accessible and polished in every aspect. It doesn't particularly excel at any one thing, but it does everything in a balanced way.
>>719246142
That's why i love Xenogears graphics

>>719246142
FF7 seriously mogs FF6 and CT when it comes to environments and its not even close.
Also FF6 looks mediocre for an SNES jrpg.

>>719246518
*a
not an

>>719201725 (OP)
It’s overrated. Even when you compare it to other RPGs of the time. But it’s easy and not long, a good introduction to the genre if you’re a ten year old, but not by any means one of the best. It’s actually laughable that anyone would even think that.

>>719246802
John Romero said it's his favorite game

>>719246802
Yes. Everyone should know that Genshin Impact and FF16 are the greatest JRPGs ever made. And Persona 5.

If Lufia 1 and 2 were so good, they would be in at least one of the modern consoles or PC.

>>719244735
>Want me to try?
Go for it. Try picrel aka. Saga Frontier, it's the best for entry point for SaGa games.
Remake or original besides QoL feature (if you play with emulator anyway) and added cut don't really make a difference.

I'll give you a heads-up though, you have the choice of 7 characters at the beginning. Pick Red or Emilia (imho pick Red) they are the most straight forward and resemble the progression of a classic JRPG the most. SaGa games are more fun the more you know about the world and its systems. So it gets pretty "META" which is their gimmick.

>>719249363
meant for
>>719245893

>>719249630
I saw it. OK.. I'll check it out

>>719249363
SaGa Frontier is kinda rough as an entry in my opinion.

>>719249769
Which SaGa would you recommend?
Giving the fact that, he is a "zoomer" and will only emulate one to try?
Don't say torrent Romancing SaGa 2: Revenge of the Seven

>>719250164
I'd say SaGa Frontier 2 or the last remnant if that's allowed as a SaGa title is an easier entry point

>>719250164
what game is this?

>>719250164
Last Remnant is the only good SaGa.

>>719250164
RotS is a good game, pleb.

>>719243284
There's no ambition to CT and the scope is ridiculously small even for its time, the SaGa games, Tactics Ogre, Metal Max, Uncharted Waters 2 and even really niche stuff like Masoukishin all blow CT out of the water

>>719250368
terranigma

>>719250368
The European "Chrono Trigger",
also known as Terranigma

>>719250282
>>719250457
>The Last Remnant
I did not expect that as an answer, we really have some folks here who know their shit. Maybe this place isn't completely lost.

>>719250805
10 yars ago we used to have frequent the Last Remnant threads upon every steam sale as it could be gotten for like 2,50€ but sadly the remaster has had it removed from PC marketplaces.

>>719250805
Terranigma is made by japs thou...

>>719251116
>Terranigma is made by japs thou...
No shit. What I was implying is that Chrono Trigger for the SNES was never released in Europe.
Instead, we got Terranigma, which is highly regarded by most Europeans just as Chrono Trigger is in the US.

>>719251116
it's called the european chrono trigger because chrono trigger was jpn+us while terranigma was jpn+eu on release

Terranigma was a cool concept but had that same atrocious exp system that like many other action rpgs had at the time (probably all same devs). Neat combat system for the first few parts of the game but eventually becomes a shit-fiesta of grinding and even after that you're usually just single-attacking as all that flashy shit does nothing afterwards.

Oh yeah, also I got hard-locked out of the ending because there's no way to level at the point of no return so fuck me I guess.

>>719201725 (OP)
>Why have so many people turned against it lately?
The exact same reason people /v/ ''''turns'''' on any game: a handful of disingenuous contrarians and shitposters wanting to make you mad. And it worked.

>>719250282
I could never get into Frontier 2 compared to 1 (which I've replay countless times)

>>719250164
Romancing SaGa 3 or SaGa Frontier are the best starting points. Then play Romancing SaGa 2 and Minstrel Song.

>>719207893
no one was playing ct in the 90s. people barely play it today. people meme about earthbound but ct exists solely to pad out your 3x3s or whatever and add clout to your top 10 list for gamer cred. the supposed "fans" don't discuss, argue about it, or buy its merch. it's a fucking western gaming meme that it's some secret treasure. the real kicker is faggots love to recommend it as a gateway to "jrpgs" (whatever the fuck that even means) when it is by its very intentioned design the anti-jrpg. faggots.

>>719206064
No matter autistic rants you go on about Chrono Trigger I'm glad that at the end of the day, you can do nothing but seethe that it will always be on the Mount Rushmore of JRPGs.

>>719252793
>someone doesn't like a mid game overhyped by tasteless normies
>reee youre contrarian!!! youre disingenious! you cant be serious, nooo!! glenn, herpu meeee!!!!

>>719253060
>>719253192
samefag

>>719201725 (OP)
Pretend a propaganda remake is needed because the original game is just "unplayable".

my criticism of chrono trigger:

i'm fairly certain i can name all of the events that happen in the game but i couldn't tell you what order they happen in

>>719253371
Time travel be like that

>>719253265
Nah, 719253192 is the one who trvked that jrpgs are not rpgs early on itt.

>>719253401
i mean the main campaign. iirc there's ~15 significant sidequests that can be done at pretty much any time

>>719252793
>a handful of disingenuous contrarians
God I hate how you retards who are actually contrarians try to project on somebody else.
A contrarian is somebody who takes a reactionary position for the sake of being reactionary, people who criticize CT do so with actual arguments while you, who dismiss anything with buzzwords ARE the actual contrarian.
Calling other people contrarian while disregarding their arguments IS what makes YOU the contrarian you stupid retard.

>>719249749
Oh btw, just because I forgot.
SAVE OFTEN AND USE YOUR SAVE SLOTS!
SERIOUSLY!
There is a reason why, you have +60 Save slots... Use them!
You can legit soft lock yourself in this game, and you don't have to be a retard for accomplishing that!

>>719253535
>I'm not contrarian, YOU'RE contrarian!'
'No u' is not a compelling argument

>>719253703
See? You fucking did it again

>>719253703
So is calling people with different opinion a contrarian.

>>719253659
Oh fuck, I am gonna be so fucked

>>719253535
You have to be a contrarian to shit on CT. Even if the game wasn't for you, anyone should see the game is ahead of its time and crafted with impressive care and purpose.

>>719253986
>the game is ahead of its time
In which way? Care to explain how chrono nigger is more mechanically complex than Wizardry 6 from 1990? Or Wasteland 1 from 1988? Or Pool of Radiance from 1987?
You can't, you never played these games because you're a fucking <100 iq normie who only plays what big youtube essay faggots call a `classic`.

>>719201725 (OP)
Zoomers trying their hands at contrarianism. Lots of hot takes just for the fuck of it.

>>719253986
>You have to be a contrarian to shit on CT.
No, you have to be contrarian to dismiss the myriad of arguments as to why CT wasn't anything special even for its time.
Nobody who actually plays videogames and is honestly interested in the medium can consider CT impressive in any sense, it's a ridiculously archaic and uninspired game even for its time and it's worse now, because it was a simple game made for young children to begin with so they rightfully could not do anything complex or ambitious with that audience in mind.
But you faggots in a midlife crisis who don't play shit get your panties in a twist whenever people point it out and point out how you don't know shit about the genre and aren't even interested about it, which is why you get shit like >>719210705 proving that the people who like CT don't like the genre.

>>719254302
>>719254618
samefag

>>719253963
>Oh fuck, I am gonna be so fucked
Don't worry about it.

>Save often (in different slots)
>TALK TO THE PEOPLE/NPCS
>Recruit most party members in your case
>And try to use your brain

It ain't rocket science! I believe in you, buddy!

>>719253265
i've also spent my entire teenage years and adult life baiting people into lengthy arguments over video game topics of almost every variety, probably since before you were fucking born, and ct fags never ever have anything to say. they will never write more than 20 words in defense of their masterpiece, they are so unengaged i really don't believe they exist.

>>719254774
Lmao the cope. I wish every time someone being accused of being a samefag a mod would hop on to tell the accuser that they're retarded.

>>719255035
Because CTfags are smart enough to not be rage-baited

>>719253963
SaGa games historically let you save anywhere at any time and in multiple save slots precisely to avoid getting fucked, you just have to learn to be methodical and save before entering an unknown place or starting a quest, it's nowhere as bad as you fear but you do have to get into that mindset.

>>719254302
Wizardry isn't even same genre. CT didn't try to be like Legend of Grimrock, it tried to be a classic JRPG. In JRPG standards, it was graphically and technically impressive (you won't find a better-looking or smoother JRPGs from SNES), it had ambition in its design (time-travelling, minigames, a lot of different-looking places and characters visually, not just copy-pasted FF caves or samey sprites), characters had distinct personalities and stories (more so than FF6), combo skills, introduced new game+, like ten different endings and the ability to end the game as you saw fit, meaning you could face the final boss when you wanted, a lot of meta-game kind of stuff similar to Mother 3, the list goes on.

Wizardry 6 on the other hand is just excel sheet jank. Comparing CT to that is like comparing CT to Counter-Strike and it doesn't make sense. So you are definitely a contrarian.

>>719255035
>i've also spent my entire teenage years and adult life baiting people
Sad

>>719254776
ok, when shall I report my progress?

>>719239725
Kek, funny. But you know what, I actually did beat Matador. I got bored after that and quit at that abandoned mall with the red ogre guys. "Is spamming buffs really going to be what this game is all about?"

>>719244062
It's called a CRT filter, pic related
FF7 cannot be played without one, it's the most CRT-reliant game ever made. Even the menus in FF7 look like dogshit raw

>>719254302
How many of those games (W6/W1/PoL) had mobile enemies that required positioning in combat? That's just an another way CT was ahead of its time and exploring different possibilities, it wasn't just trying to be Dragon Quest.

>>719255283
Why the fuck did you mention Wizardry and grimcock in the same argument? Completely different games - Wizardry is proper turn-based rpg, grimcock is a Dungeon Master clone, and Dungeon Master is an action-adventure game with moderate rpg elements.

>In JRPG standards, it was graphically and technically impressive (you won't find a better-looking or smoother JRPGs from SNES)
So fancy looks is the only things that makes it good? Care to have a word about the gameplay?

>time-travelling
Lmao, it's not even a proper mechanic - just a setting.

>not just copy-pasted FF caves
Structure-wise and not grpahic-wise, they were copypasted FF caves.

>combo skills
Glorified class actions.

>Wizardry 6 on the other hand is just excel sheet jank.
Never played the game + retarded. I can't take your arguments seriously after this statement.
Wizardry 6 magic system and role-playing system, combat, puzzles and exploration completely devastates your beloved overhyped garbo. Story too, by the way, but you don't know that as you haven't played a second of Wizardry 6 in your life.

>>719255842
the most CRT reliant game ever made?? No way

>>719255408
>ok, when shall I report my progress?
LMAO
Do I look like your parents? That's not the point. The "report" is from (You) to yourself, figuring out that you're not a complete moron, when it comes to one of the easier genres to get a grip on.

Seems like someone failed you, don't worry. We have to start somewhere, might as well be this. Complete Red's campaign! You can do it!

>>719256049
>So fancy looks is the only thing that makes it good
I actually wrote a whole list of things that make it ahead of its time. Not just one, and you know it, so contrarianism once again confirmed, you are not being genuine. You can't possibly be academically educated. Good luck, that will take far in life, I'm sure.

>>719256270
Yeah, and I disproved them.

You just confirmed you're baiting people who dislike your shitty game.

>>719256225
alright, I see. Hell yeah, I can do it

>719256049
Notice how he just goes down the line CONTRADICTING each point?
That's why we call them 'CONTRARIANS'

>>719256471
Pinpoint the contradictions.

>>719256375
>Yeah, and I disproved them
By stating that I only commented looks? That's a logical contradition, you can't say I just commented one thing and then claim I commented multiple things. But of course some uneducated retard wouldn't understand this. But yes, enjoy your dia show games where you can only move in four directions and where animations don't even exist and all the enemies just stand still. Good luck, pleb.

>>719256592
Well, now you're not even trying to hide it. Good for me - less time wasted on arguing with a troll.

>But yes, enjoy your dia show games where you can only move in four directions and where animations don't even exist and all the enemies just stand still.
Enjoy your non-rpg with zero gameplay and braindead level design.

>>719255283
>(you won't find a better-looking or smoother JRPGs from SNES)
Seiken Densetsu 3 or Rudra no Hihou alone prove you wrong.
>it had ambition in its design
Where?
Time-travelling is straight up copied from what SaGa 3 (among many other things) did on the fucking gameboy with not a single elaboration on that.
Minigames are dogshit and a waste of space that isn't even properly contextualized in the game's general narrative, they're literally just there to break the monotony of a very monotonous and shallow game.
A lot of tilesets don't really mean much when the game's world is wholly uninteresting and poorly built, and the game DOES reuse them too so I don't think you get to critize FF for that and get away scot free even if FF was exceptionally lazy in that regard.
>characters had distinct personalities and stories (more so than FF6)
No, and I don't even like FF6 but FF6 characters are on a whole other planet compared to CTs, the only characters who are sort of on the average level of FF6's cast are Frog and Magus, Chrono doesn't exist, Marle, Lucca and Ayla are cardboard cutouts and Robo is barely even there until the very end of the game with Mother Brain's arc.
>combo skills
They're literally a Fire 4 to your Fire 3, pure visuals with no actual substance, might as well conside FF summons as actual summons and not just a beefed up black magic spell
>introduced new game+
And did nothing with it
>like ten different endings and the ability to end the game as you saw fit
No, fuck you, you could not end the game "as you saw fit" because the game is literally not designed to let you beat it at most of its checkpoint ending. and the endings in most checkpoints are 90% joke endings with no real legitimacy or actual choices to make.
Metal Max on the NES let you actually end the game whenever you wanted to the point that you could beat the final boss and keep playing as long as you wanted, SaGa, Langrisser, TO etc. gave you actual player agency, CT has none of this.

>>719201725 (OP)
Probably because some like&subscriber got filtered and assblasted about it
Nobody thonks for themselves anymore.

Zoomers are contrarian faggots

>>719257028
The pic post was made by a retard.

>>719256817
>They're literally a Fire 4 to your Fire 3, pure visuals with no actual substance
What? Fire 3 is cast by one character. Fire 4 would mean a stronger spell that is cast by a single character. Meanwhile the whole point of the combo system is that Square shakes things up a little and allows the player to invest multiple character's turns to perform certain skills; the price is paid in time, not just mana. You can't comprehend this, but simply think it's Fire 3 vs. Fire 4? Even when Fire 4 wouldn't be a matter of time or waiting for other characters, just mana. Therefore, the FF summoning is a false analogy, because those can be compared to group-hitting black magic spells, like you say.

It doesn't appear like you have ever played Chrono Trigger so I won't respond further. You really should comprehend simple things like this.

>>719255898
>had mobile enemies that required positioning in combat?
Lmao like... all of them? Even Wizardry 1 had group order - you can't attack far groups with meele weapons. Enemies can also regroup in battle when they see fit, to protect weaker flangs.

Wasteland had a distance calculated for each enemy group, and you could actually see them on the game map if you minimize combat UI. That affected accuracy of your heroes towards them.

And Pool of Radiance had a proper grid based combat. It was one of the first crpgs to do that.

>>719257463
>>719256049
>reddit spacing

>>719257463
>thinks Wizardry has real-time mobility
Please play these games before you start talking about them.

>>719231020
>>719201890
Good posts. OP is a fag, first post is a nigger.
Honestly it is too late to say this, but if you wanted a CT thread you could've just asked.

>>719257643
Where the fuck did you mention "real-time mobility", dyslexic child?
Besides, real-time should be devoid of rpgs, you just further prove my point of chrono nigger not being one.

But okay - Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder had that, as well as countless other Dungeon Master clones.

>>719257808
If you had ever played Chrono Trigger, you would know exactly that we are talking about real-time mobility, mobility that requires decision-making in relation to timing. In CT, enemies actively move and attack, it's ATB. A character swapping to another position while the whole world stands still around it is not real mobility. Fucking play these games before you engage in any discussion.

>>719258130
I played chrono nigger. The combat happens so slow even on combat mode active it's near impossible for you to be slow enough for it to affect the battle outcome.

>>719258268
I thought it was too fast, but I have it on normal atm

>>719257358
>You didn't play the game because I say you didn't
Retard, you have no idea what you're talking about
>Fire 4 would mean a stronger spell that is cast by a single character
Combo attacks are literally just that but used by multiple characters, which is also one of the reasons why they're not worth using, because your DPS is much higher by using simple character abilities, not to mention Magus having full screen wipes too.
Those two characters aren't doing anything different or special than what they do on their own, your X Slash or whatever is just a bog standard attack command with a slightly higher damage multiplier and a worthless AoE that is never relevant outside of that one fight where it's a forced gimmick.
And as you yourself said, the fact that you're paying for a slightly stronger attack with two characters instead of one makes them worthless, a game like RS3 has actual combination attacks with their own use cases, mechanics and a fully freeform configuration you actually builld around on your own rather than sticking to preconfigured character dependant "combos" which are also abundantly copypasted.

>>719231415
>What is there to understand? Music is either fun or not fun
Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

CT music is one of its strongest point.
It's calming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYp_UsDzgxM&list=PLxA687tYuMWi7XZ8OnaifvnYRiQCKBGj1&index=4

>>719258370
What else could there be? You either like something or you don't, leaving complexity and other nonsense to the composers and musicians to work with. I don't even know what people mean by it in the first place.

>>719223132
Why the SNES version specifically?
Why not the saturn or PSX versions, or even the new remake?

>>719258573
My favorite part is in the final fight when you can hear THE melody play in the high note.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yf-s9yhin8

>>719258650
PSX version has casualized automap that you can pop up at any time, rendering dumapic spell useless, as well as the Figurine and the Ring of Jewels. It's for faggots, be a man and play it on snes.

>>719201810
>objectively wrong opinion
>stated in an absolute faggot manner
>”I’m afraid”
You’re a toilet-dweller.

>>719257214
>if someone has a different opinion than I do, they're stupid
Oh, the irony.

I think this thread wins for the most pretentious idiots talking past each other award.

>>719201725 (OP)
I simply do not care for Active Time Battle

>>719220480
What are you talking about?
Citizen Kane is still a good movie, it's just that you won't appreciate all of the things it's responsible for existing.

Uhhh so I am playing SaGa Frontiers
What the fuck do I do in the casino?
Can't go up into the employees area, nothing at the parking lot, hotel goes on forever, nothing happens when I talk to people in the casino.
I've never had to use a walkthrough so early in the game

>>719259325
It's not an opinion, it's sheer retardation and not knowing what rpg is. Especially with fucking witcher being an example of wrpg lol.
I'm already tired of proving jrpgtards they're tards, so not gonna dissect it's every shitty point word by word now.

>no wrpg has total freedom to create characters
Every rpg has that. Character creation or the ability to affect it's development by a large margin by player actions, that also has strong impact of said character interaction with the game world, is the definition of an rpg. Game don't have said thing - game not rpg, but an adventure/action-adventure with rudimentary rpg mechanics.

>wrpg/jrpg denote where theyre made not gameplay
Wrong.

>jrpgs with mechanics popularized in the west
A western game with jrpg mechanics = jrpg. Jap-made normal rpg = still an rpg. Already been discussed.

>>719255283
>characters had distinct personalities and stories
I love CT but I don't agree with this at all. Cyan's story and personality was more interesting than all of CT's party members combined. FF6 had adult characters with adult problems which was extremely rare for a JRPG at the time. The only other 16 bit game that tackled "mature" subjects like FF6 did was Tactics Ogre. You won't see someone attempting suicide by throwing themselves off of a cliff in Secret of Mana or Breath of Fire.

>>719202312
No, that would be FF6. FF6 does not hold up well, it aged worse than FF1.

>>719259797
Talk to each of the goons (the guys in the gimp suit), there's a row on the left sitting on the slot machines, once they leave take the elevator to the parking lot.

>>719260165
Oh, it's the "it's only an RPG is I say so. Even though I already admitted a bunch of WRPGs I like also aren't RPGs" guy. Opinion discarded.

>>719260338
That doesn't even make any sense. FF1's combat is terrible. It only "holds up" in the remakes. Dragon Warrior 1 has better combat than FF1.

>>719260464
yep, you gotta talk to the bottom one specifically, got wiped during the fight though, whoops

>>719260274
>I disagree
>FF6 is full of adults like me
>The only other 16 bit game that tackled "mature" subjects like FF6 did was Tactics Ogre.
Dragon Quest V did it better than FF6. And later games like Suikoden did it better than FF as well. But somehow I bet you think otherwise. Either because you have nostalgia for FF or you never played anything besides FF/Tactics.

>>719260536
Go play a real rpg like Wizardry 6 and Wasteland, nigger. Or at least something simpler like Might & Magic 4.
Learn what an rpg is and then come back to defend your beloved primitive garbage.

>>719260628
>Dragon Warrior
It's not 1989 anymore grandpa. You can call it Dragon Quest now.

>>719201725 (OP)
children who never played it

>>719259797
Depends on who you're playing, some MCs like Red, Riki or Emilia have Baccarat as a step in their main quest and what happens there is character specific, for everyone else Baccarat is side content and part of one of the Magic Gift questlines.
Keep in mind that while SaGa Frontier is almost entirely open from the beginning you won't be able to see the content in a lot of areas if you're not triggering the flags for some questlines, try to not use guides and figure out things on your own though.

>>719260723
>Dragon Quest V did it better than FF6

No it didn't. You're a slave for 15 minutes in DQV. That's as mature and "dark" as that game got. Oh, and your dad who you've known for 5 minutes dies.

>>719260750
>Go play a real rpg like Wizardry 6
I already pointed out in our argument from fucking 12 hours ago that I did. As well as providing examples from JRPGs that did all the things your examples were. But as usual, you just disregarded the examples and went "nu uh, it's not an RPG unless I say so." And then you also admitted to not having played all the JRPGs I cited. So you just admit to being ignorant and disregarding everything if it doesn't fit your argument. In other words, you have no argument.

>>719260792
I can call it whatever I want, you faggot.

>>719201725 (OP)
Like who?

>>719237381
you don't actually think OoT did "time travel" well do you? it's just another light world/dark world, except this time the dark world is safer.

>>719260843
You as the protagonist grow up to be an adult and dad yourself. And really dude. Cyan's entire story arc is also like 10 minutes long. And completely forgotten after the Shadow Forest aside from one casual mention (which is entirely optional to see). So you really shouldn't use time as the measurement. FFVI is terrible with pacing and development of characters.

>>719260628
FF1's combat is fine and DQ1's is hardly any different.

>>719261060
That's bullshit. He has an entire dungeon dedicated to him in the world of ruin with loads of flashbacks and story. You didn't play the game. DQ V's "tragic events" are written in a way that aren't impactful to the player. The game makes light of them. It dedicated a single line or two to your dad after he dies and he's promptly forgotten about for the rest of the game.

>>719227259
>emulating
it's on steam unc
zoomers don't emulate

>>719261337
>unc
thatts not an insulrt

>>719260628
DQ1 combat is godawul, FF1 runs laps around it, DQ1 doesn't even have something as basic as elements

>>719261490
yeah unc?

Holy shit, they couldn't make the fucking ship layout any more confusing

>>719261196
>DQ V's "tragic events" are written in a way that aren't impactful to the player.
Funny how so many people remember them and think it's the best DQ game because of them. You personally don't think they're impactful. But a lot of people do. Likewise, I don't think the stuff in FFVI is as impactful as other people. But that's just my opinion. But I'm not trying to pass my opinion off as a fact like you are.
>The game makes light of them.
No it doesn't. Shifting from dark events to light events doesn't make the dark events silly. Though you can argue the shit localization adding puns and crap to the scenes does. But that's a different topic. In the original Japanese, they're plenty impactful.
>It dedicated a single line or two to your dad after he dies and he's promptly forgotten about for the rest of the game.
He shows up again in various flashback scenes, then again in the second to last boss fight. And they're not optional like Cyan's stuff is.

>>719261552
>virgin black mage has to match elements
>CHAD Erdrick's heir just casts HURTMORE and watches the enemy die.

>>719261575
If that's your new nomenclature for older people then I'm happy to learn it.

>>719261614
You're playing as Red aren't you?
You better memorize it, it's complex precisely because you'll need to know how to play
around it at some point

>>719261663
>new
okay grandpa it's past your bedtime now
let's wheel you back inside

>>719261552
FF1's constant prompts for misses are so fucking AIDS in that game. It makes fighting battles feel like a slog. I shouldn't have to press the A button every time a character misses. DQ's is far superior even back in the first game.

>>719231374
>schizo making shit up

>>719261552
Not him, but DQ does have elements. It just doesn't matter much in the game. But you have two lightning spells, a fire spell, etc. Dragon Quest is also a little better in some areas like monster balance and items. Final Fantasy has multiple party members and a ton of options, but a lot of them are broken. And the enemy balance is absolutely terrible. You can of course adjust for it. But I mean, mob enemies are 10x harder than bosses. And placed poorly in dungeons.

For the record, Final Fantasy 1 came out after Dragon Quest 1 and 2. And alongside Dragon Quest 3. So you really should be comparing it to Dragon Quest 3. Which had similar systems and clearly more polish. And all that said, I don't hate FF1. I actually love it and FF3 is my favorite FF game. But I'm just looking at them objectively.

>>719201725 (OP)
>hailed as one of the best game of all time
>play it
>turned base rpg but you got a timer to make your selection mid combat
I am getting filtered or is active time battle fucking retarded

I didn't think it was particular good. Pretty forgettable experience all around. But youre talking to a guy who finished over a thousand video games so eh.
I'll never forget Chrono Cross though. Viper Manor was peak.

>>719261657
>You personally don't think they're impactful. But a lot of people do. Likewise, I don't think the stuff in FFVI is as impactful as other people. But that's just my opinion. But I'm not trying to pass my opinion off as a fact like you are.

No one believes DQ V of all games is as dark as FF6. Only you do and judging from your posts, you rushed through the world of ruin skipping Cyan's dungeon entirely. You never got to see his full story. You never got to watch him become the ultimate samurai by coming to terms with his grief and guilt over his family.

>>719258573
Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana have my favorite 2 OSTs of pretty much any game ever. other devs weren't even trying compared to 90s Squaresoft.

>>719201725 (OP)
It's a cult classic that's really refined for its time and plays well. It might not have aged well like Super Metroid, but that's mostly due to the current culture. Artists can't always predict the future, especially this future.
It's the same as people disliking reading. Internet algorithm feeds are ADHD-inducing, and every content form rewards formulaic, repetitive things with short-term entertainment: Shorts, porn, DLCs, isekai, episodic anime, shitty roll-baiting FromSoftware bosses, etc.
What's changed is the reach of globalist countries to the average person, and the average person's ability to voice their opinion.
Eventually, a new thing will come along, videogames will stop being the mainstream medium, and the niche slops will die out. You just have to wait 20–30 years.

>>719261693
Yeah, I was told to play as Red by some guy earlier in this thread. I've been looking for the place where I can get my paycheck for 10 minutes.

>>719262034
Yeah, I stopped reading after your second
Paragraph.
Never seen some cope this hard before.

never played chronotrigger. Liked demonsroots though, but year I'd don't see the point of playing a jrpg that censors itself.

>>719261614
>>719262068
Come on buddy! You told us you played ff8 which means you didn't get lost in Balamb Garden. If you can do that, you can do this.

>>719201725 (OP)
Maybe it's autism but I could never get past how inconsistent and nonsensical the time travel is. I like it otherwise but it's hard to be invested in the story beyond liking the characters.

>>719261946
I did play the entire game. Including everyones optional stuff. Cyan coming to terms with his wife's death and getting a skill is not the pinnacle of JRPG storytelling. Krile and Galuf in FF5 is a more impactful version of the same thing. Let alone stuff like Sierra or Yun in Suikoden or various things in Dragon Quest.

>>719262350
the balamb garden is very straightforward, I never felt like I was looping in one place forever. I actually still have the savestates from FF8, alongside a single SMT save.

>>719261881
There are two modes: action and wait. You only have yourself to blame if you didn't set the combat to wait.

>>719201725 (OP)
That doesn't make sense it's like the perfect game you don't even need to grind you get enough xp to progress through to next stage when you beat a boss.

>>719260165
Only tabletop games are real RPGs, zoomie. You're only playing cut-down garbage.

>>719260750
>JRPGs that did all the things
Jrpgs have no proper character creation and player-affected character building, that's the genre's staple, which games like chrono nigger and FF prove. No jrpg would give you as much freedom as to charm an important or unimportant npc with a spell to get information or better deals from a merchant, or to hypnotize your enemies to turn them on eachother, or even temporarily join your party after the fight ended like in Baldur's Gate. No jrpg has npc recruitment - and I'm not talking about chrono nigger's plot important character joining you up when the story forces you to, I'm talking about something like Wasteland which have a fuckton of recruitable npcs that you have full control over to take in or not, or finish the whole game without them.
No jrpg has a level design as brainfucking as the wiz 6 pyramid or the temple of ramm.
Wiz gaiden, megaten and etrian odyssey are no jrpgs - they have too much "western" mechanics to separate themselves from a jrpg gameplay formula. We already discussed that rpg made in Japan =/= jrpg.

>>719262741
I already told you only tabletop RPGs count as RPGs. Your baby games with very limited skill sets and options don't impress me.

>>719262568
I've beaten every Dragon Quest game multiple times and none of them come close to being dark. I'd say DQ11 was as dark as DQ gets in chapter 2. DQ V is more of a rag to riches tale where you go from being enslaved to getting married to a hot lady to becoming a bad ass with strong kids of your own. It's not a sad game at all. FFV is also a silly game with a single sad moment that you mentioned. FF6 was way more mature by comparison. You know this too but you want to be a contrarian.

>>719262741
Maybe if you learned to read you could play tabletop RPGs like real RPG enthusiasts. But you can't read, so you have to rely on this super casualized PC garbage like Wizardry.

>>719262741
You could simply said you didn't play any JRPG past the baby shit
>Wiz gaiden, megaten and etrian odyssey are no jrpgs - they have too much "western" mechanics to separate themselves from a jrpg gameplay formula.
Ah, it's baiting, isn't it

>>719261552
>Mario is a shit game, it doesn't have something as simple as guns

>>719262838
>I've beaten every Dragon Quest game multiple times and none of them come close to being dark.
Yeah, you either never played Dragon Quest VII or you're lying to salvage your point.
>FFV is also a silly game with a single sad moment that you mentioned. FF6 was way more mature by comparison.
FFVI is full of the same "silly" parts as FFV and other games. You're just selectively ignoring them to claim FFVI is "mature for a mature gamer like myself." Most likely you played it at age 12 and thought it was the most amazing thing ever. Then played all the other games later in life and it didn't have the same impact on you. So you selectively think FFVI is this somehow super mature game. When it's actually on the same level as FF5 or 7.

>>719262741
Wasteland is casual trash. Have you ever played an actual RPG? Wasteland has only, like, two dozen skills. That's just rubbish.

>>719263002
>You could simply said you didn't play any JRPG past the baby shit
He did like half the thread ago. He keeps claiming all JRPGs suck, then every example people point out, he admits to never having played it.

>>719263128
>Yeah, you either never played Dragon Quest VII or you're lying to salvage your point.
Yeah, I've totally never played DQ7. Kill yourself, contrarian retard.

>>719263223
Why are you playing with bilinear filtering?

>>719263002
>the baby shit
The baby shit is literally what jrpg is, as well as their targeted demographic.

>Ah, it's baiting, isn't it
Wizardry Gaiden has a proper character creation. Etrian Odyssey lets you pick a skill to develop as you level up. Early Megaten games let you to assign stats on a level up, and before starting the game.

>>719263357
Because I don't give a fuck about the graphics. I like the job autism grind.

>>719263175
>muh quantity over quality
Fuck off retard zoomer obsessed with "MUH CAHNTENT!!!"

>>719262741
I know you are hiding from me because you've never played real RPGs (can you even tell the difference between 3.5e and 5e?) but I just wanted to let you know that you're a fucking poser. Character sheets should be multiple pages long, if you have any love for RPGs. The baby PC games you list don't even provide a single full page, you can't even write on them yourself.

You have no clue what RPGs even are. They are not your baby games.

>>719263424
mad respect

>>719263427
Wasteland has way more actual content than any 80's jrpg had combined.

>>719263505
Finishing off with a shit bait, eh? Expected no less from a jfag.

>>719263427
Your baby PC games are extremely dumbed down, there aren't even 30+ classes to choose from. Only a massive retard who has never played real tabletop RPGs would ever dare to call your baby PC games as real RPGs. I mean, you just have no clue. You can't even write in them, how are you supposed to design a real RPG character without writing? That's so fucking casual and stupid, you must be some retarded zoomer.

Stick to your 2D garbage because 3D garbage filtered you. You will never understand what real RPGs are.

>>719263175
>chess bad
>it only has 6 skills
Retard

>>719263652
Why do you keep trying? Your baits are as low effort as they can possibly be. No fool would fall for em.

>>719263626
Wasteland is fucking trash. Name all the classes it has so I can laugh at you. You only like retarded casualized slop made for little children. I only know little kids who has ever played it.

There's a reason why all Wizardry portraits looks like they were drawn by a little kid, because it's a game made by kids, for kids. You would burst into tears if you ever tried to play a real tabletop RPG, scrub.

>>719263223
I notice you didn't refute the bottom point. You probably played DQ7 way after FFVI. And have nostalgia blinders for FFVI. It's okay. Lots of people have this. I felt this way about Castlevania III and Zelda 1 for years. But I eventually grew up and looked at them objectively. The difference is, I still like the old games and new games. And can recognize when something is well-written and has a good use of tone. You are hyper fixated on FFVI to the point you have to attack and discount everything else to prop it up. I've been arguing with idiots like you since the late 90s. Who thought FFVI, VII and Tactics were "the greatest written thing in all of history" and "mature for a mature gamer like myself." Most others grew out of it. You just haven't yet.

Also
>the town where the machine is still keeping watch on his dead master
>the town that had a polygon love triangle that was so bad, it spread across the whole world and all involved died sad, unrequited deaths of isolation
>a cloud driven by sadness that travels around the world and curses people
>being thrown in a prison and left to rot
>a race of people who are exiled because they don't want to mix their blood with humans
But sure. A guy losing his wife and child and then getting over it is somehow more "dark" and "mature."

>>719239702
>>719241824
Ironic, considering most RPGs take inspiration from MOTHER 1 and EB, and no one takes inspiration from CT

>>719263373
>Wizardry Gaiden has a proper character creation.
So do games like SaGa 1 or 2, Lunatic Dawn, Wizardry Empires/Elminage, Metal Max 2R and so on, just to name a few.
>Early Megaten games let you to assign stats on a level up, and before starting the game.
And? Do you seriously believe the D&D format is the only RPG format that's allowed out there?
By the way, there's plenty of old D&D modules without any of that shit, you can also just play as premade characters if you so like, see Fallout 1.
You say you love Wasteland so much but don't even know Metal Max games which are both a direct homage and an affectionate parody of Wasteland, you're such a joke really.

>>719263815
>Name all the classes it has so I can laugh at you.
It has none. It's system aren't based on DnD, but on Mercenaries, Spies and Private Eyes.

>>719263779
How many classes and subclasses does your Wizardry 6 for babies have? Answer the question. That's all you contrarians do, bait and then run away, you never answer the actual questions because you just don't have a hold of your pathetic low IQ lives. If you had ever played a real RPG, you'd know exactly how stupid you are sounding here. "Hurr durr, fire, water, earth and air spells! Oh, but there's mental, that makes it totally hardcore!"

There's a reason why you wouldn't accepted to any tabletop group, you aren't just hardcore enough. You just sit on your computer playing with your toys for little babies, you couldn't survive the real deal.

>>719263851
>You probably played DQ7 way after FFVI
No shit, retard. I played these games back when they were new and DQ7 didn't make it to the US until 2000. I'm not "hyper fixated" on FF6. I simply said that it was a dark and mature game compared to nearly every other 16 bit RPG at the time. I don't care that later games were more mature or have a "better story." That was never my point to begin with. I wonder if you even have a recent saves from the games you claim to have played?

>>719263692
I was surprised to find out that chess involves strategy (e.g. thinking several moves in advance). No one told me that, I thought rounds started off as a game of chance and then you just needed to eliminate all the enemy units. Now I know why I always lost to my grandpa.

>>719264084
Your game doesn't even have classes yet you think that's an RPG? Are you fucking stupid? What kind of RPG doesn't let you even pick a class? Even fucking FFV is more of an RPG than your baby PC games.

>>719258346
>they're not worth using, because your DPS is much higher by using simple character abilities
I've seen this before but I don't buy it. I've played around with this stat sheet listing damage calculations in the game
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15EAnTd6cbEI4pxSsJrXvkmu9odlCNNvMfvbozOvZ_CM/
And in almost every party config you're likely to get most DPS from some manner of Triple or Double Tech, the base damage for those Techs combine output from its respective Singles on top of a multiplier so it's always more than the sum of its parts. There's exceptions, like Crono/Frog/Robo have an underpowered Triple because you unlock it early enough to use against Magus for a taste but even there a Double+Single isn't far off from their best Singles (Super Volt + Leap Slash = 1900 vs Luminaire + Shock + Leap Slash = 2200). And 2200 pales to other Triple Techs. The other exception being certain outcomes of pumping them full of STR/MAG tabs you're unlikely to acquire on one playthrough until New Game+

There's also a matter of MP usage. In the above, it's a difference of 41 MP for three Singles vs only 29 for Double+Single which makes the latter more economic MP to DMG ratio. You could argue Elixers/Full Ethers/Megaelixers render this a moot point, but using an item is still a turn taken out of the way to refill MP (cutting into overall DPS) and MegaElixers/Elixers have a finite quantity in the game.

Double/Triples also get the most out of Prism Specs/Sun Shades, as the 50/25% damage boost applies to Techs and if you're using it with others, it's sharing the damage boost with them rather than just one character. This matters less on New Game+ where you can get more sets of glasses but then the math still favors it. Finally, the best SINGLE-target attacks are all Double/Triple Techs: many of the strongest Singles are AoE and those are dangerous to spam on bosses and even common enemies like on Black Omen who'll heavily counter attacks on everything at once.

>>719264138
>list tons of examples of gameplay and events from the game
>ignores them all and falls back on "y-you didn't actually play it!" defense
Basically, argument over. Good.

>>719264274
All of your CRPGs lack things DnD had. So they're not "true" RPGs.

>>719264431
Have you ever heard of the expression, "it's not what you say, it's how you say it?" That applies here. DQV feels like a carefree DQ game with silly puns and monsters just like any other one even while dark events are happening. The player isn't as impacted by them as a result.

>>719264513
There's this massive imbecile on this thread who thinks Wizardry and Wasteland are real RPGs, can you believe it? Like, just how clueless do you have to be? You aren't that guy, are you? The guy dodged when I asked him to tell the difference between 3.5e and 5e. He can't, because he wouldn't recognize a real RPG because he's just not cut for it.

But at least he admitted I won the argument and ran away.

>>719264019
>Wizardry Empires/Elminage
Not a jrpg.

>Do you seriously believe the D&D format is the only RPG format that's allowed out there?
No, but I do believe an rpg should give you control over role-playing. Jrpgs don't do that.

>you can also just play as premade characters if you so like, see Fallout 1
No sane man used premade chars in F1 lol. It's a fucking useless gimmick, possibly to appeal for casuls.

>Metal Max
Yep, never heard of it as I'm not a jfag like you. You can ask every western Wasteland 1 fan - he'll probably never heard of it too.
It looks real interesting though, I'll check it out. Thanks.

>>719233369
Mad over literally nothing

>>719264116
>How many classes and subclasses does your Wizardry 6 for babies have?
For a crpg, it has a lot.

>>719264809
You are not a sane man, you're a poser who is advocating casual garbage here. I've only ever seen Wizardry played by underages and there's a reason for that; it's not a real RPG, you're just an unhinged casual dimwit. You wouldn't survive a day if you tried to play a real tabletop RPG.

Stop hiding behind your baits, imbecile. Try representing arguments for the first time in your sad life.

>>719264580
And Final Fantasy VI has tons of silly moments as well. The way you feel about Dragon Quest V is how I feel about FFVI. Magnified even more because of bad pacing. One second you're suppose to be in this dramatic moment where Celes or Terra is crying and you're running for your life. Then 5 minutes later you're watching moogles dance or playing tag with Relm. FFVI (and the other FF games) aren't as "mature" as you think they are. And they're literally made for the Gundam/Shounen audience. Hence why they share the same tone and tropes.

Also, I already addressed how the western localization is shit and ruined some of the important scenes (especially fighting the horse dude and Ladja). But in the original Japanese they didn't have the dumb puns.

>>719264809
>Wasteland 1 fan
So, you? There's not anyone else. And you are a retard who can't even write properly. Why the fuck should anyone ask anything about you? What have you accomplished in your life when you can't even tell what a real RPG is?

>>719265153
I fail to see your point. I already explained what a crpg is in the thread, a few times even.