Thread 719234617

I never played 2D sidescrollers much.
I always bounced quite early and even dropped Hollow Knight years ago because I didn't do great with platforming challenges. The only 2d game I finished is pic related, probably because it's more of a Souls game than metroidvania.
I wanted to play Hollow Knght and Silksong but I will probably get lost or fumble platforming
Any suggestion or entry level titles?

Super metroid and ender lilies are both easy to get into and also great.

>>719234617 (OP)
>traditional sidescrollers
>you play the game for the gameplay
>metroidvanias
>you play the game to find the gameplay
You don't get into them.

>>719234617 (OP)
>No mention of trying Metroid or Castlevania

Played The Last Faith for a while then dropped it too

>>719234689
Noted
>>719234803
Seems pointless if I can barely get into the newer ones

Play every Metroid since snes and every Castlevania since ps1

Play Islets.
Dont listen to people and dont play old games, interface is ass

Indie niggas be shilling the most reddit games of all time :cryemoji:

>>719234617 (OP)
katana zero
give hollow knight another shot

Blasphemous 2, I dropped the first game because spikes insta killed you but the second game is more streamlined

>>719234617 (OP)
>how do i get into
>shills for one

>>719236205
Nah It's just the only one I managed to finish.
>>719236030
Thanks

>>719234617 (OP)
Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night

Touhou Luna Nights, Deedlith in Wonder Labyrinth, and Blade Chimera are nice and easy to finish games, pretty fun too

I've not played many, but why are there some many that put so much effort into combat? Combo meters, unlockable moves. Shouldn't movement always be the focus?

>>719234617 (OP)
Play Super Metroid, Zero Mission, Fusion, AM2R, Symphony of the Night, and all the GBA and DS Castlevanias.

>>719236940
Samus Returns > AM2R

>>719237010
Didn't mention it because I have no idea about the state of 3DS emulation nowadays.

>>719234803
Because Metroid and Castlevania aren't metroidvanias.
Metroidvanias started with Symphony of the Night and they must follow that formula

>>719238289
What's the difference?

>>719234617 (OP)
Here's my ranking from my excel diary
Feel free to ask questions

Op here
I just realized what I really dislike games with contact damage
Anyone else?

>>719238679
See>>719238752
That shoud narrow it down

>>719238679
>chinkcore

>>719238752
>>719238798
It's hard to remember which has contact damage... but I remember DragonLoop has no contact damage except on spiky enemy

>>719238289
>Metroidvanias started with Symphony of the Night and they must follow that formula
Retarded faggot, Metroidvanias started with metroid Castlevania copied it.

>>719238752
Play Rabi-Ribi. You can turn off contact damage plus it's got my favorite world to explore if you can figure out the hidden techs (don't look them up, that's boring).

>>719242094
Alice Escaped is better

>>719242154
Is this Vtuber shit? I'll pass, but I'm sure it's fine as most their stuff winds up being.

>>719242412
no

>>719238679
>Afterimage
>10

>>719242819
yes

>>719238679
>Nine Sols
>8
Nine Sols is an abysmal metroidvania because it's not a fucking metroidvania

>>719243589
It is. even though the MV aspect is quite low

>>719234617 (OP)
Symphony of the Night

>>719234617 (OP)
Super Metroid is definitely one of the defining experiences and should be a good start.
Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow is also a great game to settle in from. The more famous Symphony of the Night is.. a trendsetter and worth playing if you find you like the genre, but it's a touch archaic and kinda slow.
Cave Story is also a soft introduction that's worth checking out.
Once you've gotten those under your belt you can go to the weirder options like Blasphemous, Ori and the Blind Forest, Metroid Dread, or return to Hollow Knight.

>>719238679
I think Afterimage is a lot better than people give it credit for, but no way in HELL is it a 10/10, lad.

>>719238289
no one gives a shit about SOTN inventory and leveling, aspie. Metroidvanias are open-ish games where progress is barred by finding abilities with multiple uses.

>>719235501
>>719235554
>we have blasphemous at home

>>719244482
my 10s are meant for personal favorites, but it's still a really great game. It's a huge game but I just didn't get bored. enjoyed every second of it.

>>719235554
NTA but play the sequel instead. The first game is actually a pretty badly designed Metroidvania and hard carried by its music and artstyle.

>>719234617 (OP)
>"melee"vania
>"muh swords"
>"souls"vania
>"muh hollow knight-like"

Devs please stop, this shit is so tired.

>>719238679
>rusted moss >dropped >4
>blasphemous >6
>haiku >7
>momodora >7

I am severely questioning your judgement

Dead Cells is the best one

>>719235959
Meanwhile the industrycucks have...

>>719245104
Haiku is the best HK clone out there, just as good as it.
Momodora is really fun
Blasphemous is good but kinda unfun
I hate the art design and mobility of Rusted Moss. also I dislike shooters in general.

>>719238752
Nine Sols

>>719238679
Why play the inferior sequel but not the original Ori

>>719245526
Ori 1 > Ori 2, but I don't consider Ori 1 a metroidvania.

>>719245284
20 year old goats

>>719245859
The same way Steamworld Dig 1 isn't a MV, even though Dig 2 is.

>>719238752
bro just look at the screen better

>metroidvania
>posts one of the myriad of sidescrolling souls-ripoffs that simply uses a minor amount of backtracking
I really hate how casually metroidvania gets thrown around because casual shitters will hear that phrase and instantly soijak at the chance to add another heckin 'vania to their collection.

>>719238679
>momodora Moonlit farewell: 7
way too high
>luna night: 5
way too low

suspicious list
>>719245104
>>719245285
Moonlit farewell is dogshit, and a downgrade from RuM in everyway except visually. haven't been that disappointed in a sequel in forever

>no environmental puzzles
>no completely optional areas that you can only find via breaking away from the beaten path
>no optional/secret abilities/equipment
then it isn't a metroidvania, simple as

>>719246260
I can't express how real this post is, it fucking hurts.

>>719238679
>Afterimage
>10
based
>see bottom
not based
Salt & Sanctuary, Souldiers, Rusted Moss, Ghost Song are fucking great

>>719238752
contact damage is a mechanic specifically employed because the developer couldn't figure out a meaningful combat system or didn't feel like putting the effort in. Contact damage means every end-game combat encounter will devolve into enemies and bosses flying around the screen at the speed of light because that is the only area that the """"combat"""" can grow into it

>>719246430
>>719246260
Do you guys think backtracking makes one good? Fusion is my favourite metroid, super 2nd. The reason being it's just more enjoyable to play, the map guides you a bit but gives you plenty of times where you must explore and just feels smooth with that nice plot playing out. When I think about playing the original metroid i am reminded about lots of tedium making me a bit bored.

Easy ones off the top of my head
Gato Roboto and Moonlaw
Neither are long

>>719238679
What are some good metroidvanias with parrying as a core mechanic? I liked combat in Nine Sols and Frontier Hunter: Erza's Wheel of Fortune.

>>719234617 (OP)
The Messenger may be good for you
Starts off mostly linier

>>719244482
>>719246489
afterimage is good, but there's some bloat.
there's quite a few areas that are pretty much inconsequential and could be cut out.

upgrading weapons is mostly useless, you always want to equip the latest weapon you find with the biggest number.
also some moveset sucks, mostly whip (you literally want to do the jump attack for absurd DPS)
and your sense of progression grinds to a halt in the midgame, where you have double jump and swim but not triple jump/superjump

still one of the best MV tho.
a solid 8.5 in my book

>>719246734
Not those Anons, but I think a good Metroidvania should have backtracking even if the game guides you into it. Getting new abilities to open up previously inaccessible areas is a core tenet of Metroidvanias imo.

>>719246734
I like the power up progression the most and finding new unique tools/environments, backtracking is fun too when you get new things and get to explore old areas in a new way

>>719242094
shill me on rabi-ribi
pretend i'm OP and thus a gigantic faggot, who doesn't buy game just because there's girls in bunny suits on the cover

>>719247130
they have a sequel that doesn't have this shitty main char design, play that instead

>>719246972
hmm... I only know Nine Sols. I heard Somber Echoes is parry-intensive too, but I haven't tried it. too many other indie games to play

>>719238679
I don't see Aeterna Noctis on that list, where is it, you're not a casual when it comes to platforming?

>>719247847
too chuuni for me.
also I heard many bad things about the bloat and slog, so I don't even want to try it.

>>719247130
Fun fights with a light (heavy later on) bullet hell aspect to them. World that is so open there is an achievement for a 0% Run. Multiple difficulty levels that really fucking ramp up that bullet hell aspect if that's what you want. Another character for pretty cheap that plays completely differently for variety (Bosses don't change much admittedly, it's more Richter Mode in design than another campaign). Cute character designs. Good music. Highly recommended by Christ Centered Gamer (the only good game review site). Often pretty cheap on sale. It's a great game.
The sequel is much more so-so since it was written and drawn by somebody else. Gameplay is okay (in some aspects better) since it's by the RR guys but the world suffers for the story.

>>719238679
La Mulana 1 and 2?

>>719247590
Thanks, I'll check it out.

>played hollow knight several times
>get to endgame each time
>still have never beaten it because the combat difficulty gets cranked up too far and just becomes tedious
I like the art, I like the setting, I like the secrets, power growth and exploration, but I HATE the combat in the endgame. Not many """""metroidvanias""""" that have as fun and rewarding exploration with as interesting a world. Few notable examples off the top of my head are the Ori games, Shadow Complex, Metroids, obscure shoutout to Shinsekai, Animal Well was alright. Wish more of this genre would focus as much on the exploration and puzzles/secrets as these games instead of just chasing HARDCORE difficulty and combat encounters.

>>719248361
>Wish more of this genre would focus as much on the exploration and puzzles/secrets as these games instead of just chasing HARDCORE difficulty and combat encounters.
HAAK and Prince of Persia would be perfect for you

>>719248492
>haak
a bit too low budget looking, the "world" itself looks very bland, and the poorly dithered art is quite offputting imo
>PoP
isn't that game more or less highly linear without much in the way of true exploration or secrets? All of the impressions I've seen make it look like it's a "metroidvania" in gameplay but is largely railroaded by story and essentially babby's first metroidvania. Also, killmonger haircut lmao

really wish the siege and the sandfox wasn't plagued by an amateur dev who has no idea how to bugfix, the core concept is really neat but it's nearly unplayable due to the game's core mechanics, stealth, traversal and detection, all breaking down catastrophically, with the dev all but abandoning the game because they don't know how to fix it. Feels like classic PoP, nearly complete focus on traversal, stealth and exploration, little to no combat at all, but again, the game's systems just start breaking down and can literally brick your playthrough.

>>719248361
i liked hollow knight so much because it kind of had both the exploration and combat, the lategame combat is something i never really felt in any other metroid-likes. i love how dynamic the enemies are and how theres a lot of different cool ways to respond to their moves. similary the nonlinearity/interconnection was above average too. but if someone dislikes the "death by 999 cuts" stuff where you need to hit the lategame boss up to a hundred times & cant figure out how to hammer the bosses, i can see it getting annoying
silksong probably provides more alternatives, like judging by the crests you can decide to have individually stronger slower attacks or burst damage

>>719248693
>a bit too low budget looking
graphicfags I see.

>isn't that game more or less highly linear without much in the way of true exploration or secrets?
you just want an open world game.

If you want a super open game, go play Afterimage & Dragon Loop. maybe Shadow Labyrinth too.

>>719248492
>Prince of Persia
are you talking about the old games or the new one?

>>719248863
>siege and the sandfox
decent game, but the stealth/assassination aspect is very lacking

>>719248937
The "woke" one with black MC. it's really good.

>>719234617 (OP)
Why is being a newfag in vogue now? It's just like reddit here

>>719248880
I'm definitely getting silksong, even acknowledging my dislike of the combat system in the endgame. And yes, being 2 or 3 shot by bosses whilst requiring thousands of attacks from the player is the big turnoff. Especially because most of the endgame bosses feel designed so that you rarely get enough of an opening to heal up any mistakes, it just feels too punishing. I liked the combat UP UNTIL that point, usually after getting passed deepnest and getting into the carnival content. Personally I think shadow complex might be my favorite metroidvania just because of the quality and amount of secrets and exploration whilst also cleverly incorporating 2.5 combat.

Start with some games that aren't about platforming and are more linear, like megaman X. I never actually "got into" metroidvania because I was used to X-like games and not 1,000 years of backtracking, though.

>>719249152
Gravity Circuit

>>719249001
I pirated it and was pleasantly surprised. The character and art design was so off putting though. If they just had you play as the real prince and removed the dumb haircut it would've sold fine.

>>719249105
>being 2 or 3 shot by bosses
what? did you just not get your health upgrades?
You need 5 hits to die minimum against a double damage boss if you get all mask upgrades if you fail to heal, and thats before any charms or lifeblood. Unless youre talking about all-bindings
> so that you rarely get enough of an opening to heal up any mistakes,
theres quite a lot of windows but it requires you to think fast most of the time, but they all usually have one or two attacks that hand it over to you for free
You can get charms like Quick Focus or Baldur Shell to make it much easier to heal

>>719249105
>getting into the carnival content
the carnival stuff is a lategame DLC for after you are done with almost everything else, make sure you werent just plain undergeared

For me, it's pic related. I really wish I had some potion that let me forget all memories related to a game.
>>719238679
>Souldiers
Before or after the difficulty nerf?
I've never played a game I hated so much but wanted to love.

>>719247040
That's a far more reasonable number that I can absolutely agree with.

>>719249735
While it certainly won't capture the original feel, there is a randomize for La Mulana that lets you get more enjoyment out of it.

>>719249735
>difficulty nerf
I thought they just added difficulty options?

>>719249735
Same
Its so good
There's a randomizer but I never tried it

>>719249849
Yes and no. The biggest nerf was to checkpoints, where the game went from not enough to too many.

>>719234617 (OP)
You can find a bunch of games on this dude's list. Ignore the tier-ing.
>https://www.demajen.co.uk/tierlist.html

>>719235501
>>719235554
TLF was a great boss rush-y game, too bad about the story lol
>>719238679
Hey you played Pronty. That's cool.
>dropped Salt and Sanctuary
Pick it up again and play it till the end.

>>719238679
and this is my wishlist/backlog
games outside these lists = no interest, like Axiom Verge & Bloodstained, for example. I hate retro 8bit shit, so I won't even try it.

>>719250279
...Wow.
>I hate retro 8bit
Thanks for reminding me, go play Environmental Station Alpha.
>But
No.

>>719250342
Uhh get in line, bud. He's busy firing up Salt and Sanctuary at the moment.

>>719235554
>Seems pointless if I can barely get into the newer ones
Play Super Metroid and SotN so you have a measuring stick to know why one is worth your time or not.
Or don't it's a free country.

>>719246972
Metroid dread uses a party as a main mechanic

>>719250342
no

>>719250395
>Salt and Sanctuary
potato looking garbage with no map and too much of a soulsclone. fuck that shit.

>>719238679
>metroid dread
>4/10 dropped

>>719250576
>too much of a soulsclone
>Afterimage and Death's Gambit two of the highest-ranked games
Okay, I understand. You were never accepting recommendations or inviting an actual conversation.

>>719250576
>no map
>t.man of the city
>soulsclone
the game is 80% metroidvania 20% soulslike

>>719245285
>Haiku is the best HK clone out there, just as good as it.
And with that one statement you have lost any and all credibility
Haiku was so boring and soulless it would have been better to just replay HK
It did nothing original and had nothing to say other than being like "remember hollow knight guys?!11!

>I hate the art design and mobility of Rusted Moss. also I dislike shooters in general.
Skill issue

>>719234617 (OP)
play Momodora:Reverie under Moonlight and Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night
only 2 metroidvanias that matter outside of Metroid and Vania

>>719250694
>Death's Gambit
I played Death's Gambit when it 1st released. Didn't they do a bunch of updates? Did it make a big enough difference to check it out again?

>>719250896
yeah, they've redone the game in a lot of ways

>>719250694
Those two are distinct enough, they have their own identity unlike Salt which is 90% soulsclone and 10% potato character model

>>719250863
>Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night
I've played Frontier Hunter: Erza's. there's no point in playing an inferior looking igavania.

>>719250896
Yeah, the gameplay was fun enough. The devs tried to insert some meta-twist kind of shit into the story and didn't do it well.
>>719250986
Hey man I said I get it. No need to continue with vagueries as if I never played any of them. Good luck with the rest of your life.

>>719249735
>I really wish I had some potion that let me forget all memories related to a game.
It's called time. I played the fan translation back in like 2007 I think when La-Mulana was /v/'s indie darling. There were lets plays from Something Awful, but there wasn't a lot of discussion of the game outside of 4chan or SA so it was easy to not get spoiled on the puzzles. I went in blind, beat my head against the wall for days, until the dev's logic suddenly kicked in and I "got it." Beat the game, thoroughly enjoyed it, and put it in the back of my mind. Flash forward a decade and I saw it in a cripple/v/ Vita threads, went
>Hell Yeah
and bought it to support the dev. Turns out a different dev made the remake and there were significant changes. Add on the fact that after a decade I couldn't remember the puzzles and it was basically a fresh experience tinged with a bittersweet nostalgia.

>>719250029
Yeah, Demajen has shit taste. His maps are good, but he is jewish hence why Grime is so high.

>>719247040
Biggest issue for me is the wild inconsistency with the bosses. You can just face tank half the games bosses, and by the time you reach the ones that are difficult your gear and items will be so OP that there isn't much of a challenge outside of a handful. Which sucks because the combat system in Afterimage is really fantastic.

There is also the issue of exploratory fatigue as outside of a rought "GO TO X" from the Archmage it is confusing as fuck to go in blind without knowing where the progression skills are. When you couple that with how insanely massive the map is it can wear you out having to cycle through every area looking for some way to advance to a new area and hopefully unlock new skills. I don't mind big maps, and I don't mind exploring, but on my first playthrough the gap between getting double jump and finding triple/super jump was a painful slog. Great potential, flawed execution. Hope Aurogon Shangha learned from it and tries again.

>>719246972
Grime, but Grime is dogshit

>>719238679
you played tevi but not rabi ribi?

>>719234617 (OP)
You just play games that look fun and interesting to you. That's it, don't deliberately force yourself to "get into" a genre, it doesn't work like that.

>>719235554
>Seems pointless if I can barely get into the newer ones
You're thinking about it wrong, I'm a zoomie and the metroids are consistently more engaging to me than most indie metroidvanias I've played. They're just designed very well in general.

>>719234617 (OP)
Go with the games that gave the genre its name. Castlevania and Symphony of the Night and Super Metroid are still the best 1973. Simple as.

>>719252598
*Castlevania Symphony of the Night
Threw and extra and in for no reason
>>719235554
>Seems pointless if I can barely get into the newer ones
It shouldn't, they're generally better than the newer ones.

>>719250029
holy shit that is one of the worst tierlists I have ever seen for any subject

>>719252725
You could have meant Castlevania 2 which was the OG "vania" in Metroidvania. SotN and its derivatives used to be considered a subgenre the "Igavanias"

>>719252123
yeah, some rough outline from the mid game forward would have been nice.
just plopping down the location of major story bosses like HK does with the dreamers for example, just to get a sense of direction.

and yeah, boss difficulty is pretty wild.
some bosses are ball-busting difficult while others are a joke.
you can kinda play around it by changing difficulty setting, but the problem there was that normal is actual piss-baby easy, while advanced is fuck you hard, the swing is actually absurd.
not all of them are like this, but the outliers really stick out

Unpopular opinion: Symphony of the Night is a painfully average Metroidvania by modern standards and was only ever praised because it essentially invented the genre.

>>719246260
There are only TWO [2] actual metroidvanias I know of that came out Since Metroid Zero Mission (a remake at that): Environmental Station Alpha and Rebel Transmute. SotN eternally gayed up what it means to be a metroidvania, with flashy visuals but piss-low-effort level design, or "interconnected zones" but the game still primarily plays like it's stage by stage.

Hilariously, Axiom Verge AKA "the big Metroid tribute," commits this sin itself.

>>719253086
If they had properly balanced the bosses and given you the dodge i-frames afterimage way earlier in the game it would have vastly improved the boss battles. The contact damage would be an acceptable handicap since the i-frames would balance it out as a skill check forcing the player to balance their choices mid combat
>Do I dodge through and attack
>Do I gain distance and heal
>Do I position for a secret technique
Giving the player the chance to make those decisions early in the game and ratcheting up the power of the bosses would have gone a long way towards improving the combat and letting the player get the most out of combat systems.

>>719253608
I don't think that is really an unpopular opinion. SotN was good for its time, but it was still flawed in a number of ways which was even recognized at the time. The reason for its popularity was because there was really no defined metroidvania genre at the time and but people that like this style of game were (and still are) greedy for more. Didn't hurt that the English translation was very memeworthy and caught on hard early in web 2.0. It still has a lot of nostalgia for people like myself who grew up with it, but for young bluds and people who only really got into the genre after it exploded the game can feel rough, short, and unbalanced.

>>719248863
>game's systems just start breaking down and can literally brick your playthrough.
QRD? I was vaguely keeping an eye on the game.

>>719234617 (OP)
play super metroid or symphony of the night

>>719234617 (OP)
Play Symphony of the Night.

>>719238679
>astalon
>2
bait

>>719234617 (OP)
>I played a metroidvania and didn't like it
>how do I get into it
You don't.

>>719238679
>Tevi but no Rabi Ribi
>No Castlevanias

Play linear 2D action games.

>>719248361
I know it's an obvious thing to say but how do you find base game Hollow Knight difficult? I legitimately cannot picture how someone can get through most of the game (aka not be someone who has never picked up a video game in their life) and somehow get brick walled.

>>719249105
>I'm definitely getting Silksong
>Silksong in a post Godhome world
>When you were getting filtered by base game 2 mask bosses
Oh you poor naive fool.

>>719250694
dark souls 2 tier map
who starts the game at sea level, then puts 2/3rds of the open spaces under it

>>719254997
>>719255193
the things that were filtering me were the carnival and godhome, not base game. I specifically stated "endgame" content in my frustrations. use critical thinking. I was most interested in the carnival content because I like games with pet systems, having a lil dude who follows you around and helps in combat, even if it sucks, I still liked how it would upgrade as you progressed the carnival stuff. But 3rd phase troupe boss was frustrating, and I know there was one more to go still. Outside of all of this, the rest of the game, aka, 80%+, was still quite enjoyable, so I still see it as a worthwhile experience.

any game that uses motion tweening for its animation can safely be skipped. adjust your tier lists to take this fact into account.

Calling a Metroid game a Metroidvania is like calling a truck an SUV
Stupid fucking zoomers

>>719255764
other way around, it's like calling an SUV a truck, which is accurate.

>>719255764
>up is down left is right abloo bloo bloo
You can say wrong things as much as you want.

>>719255368
More like sides of an island as that boat takes you to the other side of the island. You get into the real subterranean shit later on.

>>719255815
Are you fucking stupid?
Metroid came first and then the "Metroidvania" was developed by taking parts of it and meshing it together with other gameplay elements to form SotN and it's own unique genre.
Calling every single non-linear platformer a "Metroidvania" is so fucking retarded and braindead

>>719253792
>trannyspinner

>>719256583
right, and truck came first, so calling an SUV a truck is accurate. don't use analogies if they don't fit your retarded logic, retard

>>719245284
Metroid dread?

>>719255368
>dark souls 2 tier map
i havent played s&s but a ds2 tier map sounds like fun gameplay with great branching

that aside, a lot of sidescroller games consider 'up/down' to be north & south. in ori for example, this is the start of the game and the spirit tree is directly "up" from you. so i assume thats whats happening in s&s

play metroid
play castlevania
don't play metroidvania (these start at symphony of the night)

for me its environmental station alpha

>>719248880
I HATE padded sumo bosses. It is the gayest fucking bullshit.

>>719257043
its not really padded, you can kill them very quickly if youre good at attacking and spells
its just that it ends up fucking over people who arent into doing some more acrobatic shit and repeatedly attacking, so thats why i said silksong will probably cater to more people because you can choose crests for different playstyles. For example you can instead opt for the crest with the slower stronger attacks and the huge damage sawblade move

>>719256721
Alright let me correct myself, it's like calling a sedan an SUV

>>719255659
>But 3rd phase troupe boss was frustrating, and I know there was one more to go still.
3rd phase?
theres only 2 grimm fights, you must have been at the end

>>719256904
>>719256453
bollocks. There is a shortcut cave about 5 screens to the right of the starting beach, you go almost straight down for like 30 seconds and you walk out into a village under open skies. There is no ambiguity of walking into or out of background, no background vistas to put the world into perspective, no space to sell the distance. It's just sloppy. And the lack of in-game map ascertains that you'll pay attention to this stuff.

>>719238679
Absolute Garbage List. My only respect is you somewhat seem to realize how good Iconoclasts is, but ironic since in contrast to a bloated mess like AfterImage, Iconoclasts doesnt overstay its welcome, and actually gets the most out of its mechanics, while being varied EVERYTIME.
Also has the best bosses in all of indie unironically. Reminds almost of when I first played Minish Cap with how unique and striking those bosses were, but with more demand for skill.

PoP Lost Crown rating is decent too, despite its follies.

>>719257768
>you go almost straight down for like 30 seconds and you walk out into a village under open skies.
this practically just reinforces the theories that the devs just consider down to be south and not actually going downwards
im not saying its not silly but thats the obvious explanation

>>719255659
Except you explicitly said
>never beaten it
and Godhome is largely post game content. So yes, applying critical thinking to you saying endgame and saying you never beat the game results in my conclusion.

>>719258895
but you don't need to beat the game to access godhome, godhome is little more than a menu

>>719247308
>>719248003
>sequel has a worse story and more tame character design, with somewhat improved gameplay
I might play that instead, i usually don't give a hoot about the story in games like these, beyond the general gist.
thanks.
and yeah, CCG is a great review site, highly recommend

>>719258014
He can consider whatever he wants, as long as he manages to sell it to me. Look at this shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsZPaCngZ0M&t=354s
30 seconds from beach to bonfire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6UTESG868I
50 seconds to village, including a little treasure hunt

>>719256583
Tell me, sophist, what "metroidvania" elements does Super Metroid LACK?

>>719234689
Nta but why not Metroid zero , I may play that as my first Metroid

>>719259498
Remake slop

>>719254140
>SotN was good for its time, but it was still flawed in a number of ways
Such as?

>>719238679
Very strange list desu. You dropped a ton of games you shouldn't have, Astalon & Rusted Moss being standouts.

Also weird choices like Magnolia>Lillies, there's lots you got right but also so many head-scratchers...

Wanted to play last faith and grime. I love salt and sanctuary, see it as one of the best games ever made, despite the obvious flaws.

Have played
>after image (convoluted story, all over the place)
>hk (awesome game, not for me)
>chasm (cool, but painfully basic)
>all castlevanias (timeless classics)
>rotn (could've been better, plenty of skills, albeit redundant ones)
>record lodoss war (only bought it because I like the source and it was cheap

I skipped timespinners (too gay) and might play deaths gambit. Anything else?

I did not like Ender Lilies
I found it extremely boring and tedious actually

>>719238679
>>719250279
>Bloodstained
RItual of The Night is not 8-bit, its demake is

>>719260201
>I love salt and sanctuary, see it as one of the best games ever made
hell yeah brother
last faith and death's gambit were fun for gameplay and moving around the map. don't bother trying to keep track of the story in either. haiku was fun, short and sweet.
pronty was an underwater game so you have full movement and no platforming, you don't even do damage yourself you control a robotic barracuda thing that kills shit for you, and the game had one wacky hidden ending
cookie cutter has a LOT of flavor and personality but you have to be into its aesthetic (or willing to tolerate it) AND there is a shitload of references both to older and 'current' pop culture mainly other devs and older bands they were influenced by
unworthy is all black and white if that tickles your pickle

>>719260287
cause they screwed up some things really hard. For example you have collision damage but not when the enemies poise is broken and against certain enemies like Mimics poise break does nothing as they are instantly back up again. Some enemy attack animations are weird with the boss design rather lacking other than maybe Ulv and Julius. I like that the minimap tells you when a zone is fully explored but having only squares with indicators for map connections was flat out bad. Some spirits are really niche while others are exceeding given their usage design. I love the game especially the atmosphere, style and music but it's by no means perfect. The improvements in gameplay are significant in Magnolia but there the later zones feel a bit rushed and the story thrown together. Parries are there also way too strong.

>>719249586
>the dumb haircut
unironically why i did not buy it because i was otherwise interested through word of mouth

>>719260287
For me the biggest sin was the shit map. Almost every area was just a square box with random platforms scattered throughout. There's no clever backtracking or ability usage either. At least not in my 6 hours of playing.

>>719260891
>There's no clever backtracking or ability usage either
the hammer ability allowed you to push yourself back and upwards. It was needed to get a few items but it's never really explained. Very late you also get an uppercut ability but with the hammer alone you could reach everything from what I remember.

>>719253792
Cool gameplay, decent mechanics, perfect nostalgic pixel craft. Unfortunately >>719256653

>>719247847
played that one on switch and it was okay. liked that everything was voiced and the main character is an insufferable edge lord, but it gets a little nonsensical with adding in aliens and robots that kinda clashed with the rest of the setting and didn't really add anything. also fuck that palace of illusions area. putting secrets in there is a crime with how it's laid out.
unfortunately couldn't finish the game because something is crashing the game every time I load in at the alien spaceship

I'd rate it like 6.5

>>719234617 (OP)
Uhhh like any other game you play it and if you like it then you keep playing it....

Play metroid and castlevania

>>719261737
No

>>719234617 (OP)
fusion is pretty fucking linear, but it's also old as dirt
there's no point in you playing other metroid games if you don't give a shit for sequence breaks or general exploration
actually maybe you could try zero mission : there's objective markers and it's more polished than fusion, and doesn't look too old either

>>719259728
1. The game is very short by modern standards. Even a short game like Astalon has a map twice as large as SotN even if you count the inverted castle as a seperate map
2. The inverted castle itself doesn't hold up. First time you experience it, there is a great "holy shit" moment as everything you have known up until that point has just been completely flipped. Every subsequent playthrough it just becomes a tiresome slog meant to pad out the playtime of a very short game.
3. The inverted castle is a bother to navigate. Even at that point in the game where even a casual player should have unlocked most, if not all, of the traversal and movement skills it is still a pain to navigate the inverted castle since it was designed for a different orientation which makes it feel awkward and fumbly to play through.
4. The bosses are very easy. It isn't Afterimage tier, but ten year old little me had little to no problem clearing SotN's bosses. Replaying it now the bosses feel tedious to me, I imagine the current generation of lil jimmies that have come up playing Hollow Knight and expect a certain difficulty threshold would be bored out of their minds.
5. Most weapons and skills are largely useless. The vast majority will never be used, a handful find a nice middleground, and a few are game breakingly OP.
Iga had no real blueprint to go off of. He was throwing shit against the wall to see what stuck and it was wildly successful. The game had a great ambiance, banger OST, kino visual styles. It was great for the time, but now that there are a lot more variations on the formula it is easier to see its flaws. I am not going to criticise the English translation because it is classic camp which vibes very well with the hammer horror aesthetic that the Castlevania series was based on. Furthermore it would be reddit to nitpick something that was simply a matter of localization and not inherent to the game. It isn't a bad game, but it is almost 30 y/o and shows it

>>719260827
I think the devs took the criticism from Lilies map because Magnolia's has so many quality of life details that it almost seems indulgent.

Stay away from Rain World. Is the worst game ever made.

>>719262920
I'm not sure how they can even improve Magnolias gameplay. If they go for another Ender game they basically only need to provide more content.

>>719264425
I got really bored with rain world really quickly, it was interesting but it felt like “okay I get it”.

>>719252123
>he is jewish hence why Grime is so high.
explain

>>719265013
best part of the game is to autistically bring every single pearl to their destination without fast travel
it takes a special kind of mental illness to enjoy it

>>719265072
Israeli devs

>>719265072
Grime is an Israel developed metroidvania. Every single person who worked on the game is jewish.

>>719265013
Played it for 4 hours because of the praise it gets in this board but I couldn't stomach it anymore. I guess the fun is the world Ecosystem. Random stuff happens all the time and its really cool seeing monsters fight, eat each other to survive but it wasnt fun. So much exploring but nothing to find but food, rocks, spears and mushrooms.

>>719234617 (OP)
You should absolutely play Super Metroid and optionally AM2R since those are the best ones. I know SotN is also super popular, but I wasn't really digging it.

>>719234617 (OP)
a lot of metroidvanias are just badly designed or designed in a way that becomes really repetitive and exhausting instead of fun. You usually can't go wrong with an Igavania as a starting point. SotN, the DS games, bloodstained.
Astalon was one I found really surprisingly decent but does have a couple of annoyances. still one of my favorite indies
Momodora reverie under the moonlight is very good. the others not as much, even the newest one was kinda weak
didn't like smelter or vernal edge, but it can't hurt to try them yourself

>>719259008
>largely post game content
>largely
It requires you to have beat the game to access the more substantial portion of it.

>>719262424
Thanks for the well thought out post, Anon. I never played it before, but have been playing modern Metroidvanias so I'll be curious to see how it really holds up. Sounds like I should temper my expectations.

>>719266253
nigga what

>>719234617 (OP)
Getting into metroidvanias? No fucking clue, I think it just takes finding one that catches your interest.
I had both Metroid and Blaster Master on the NES, and Blaster Master just clicked with me and ive loved it ever since desu
however, Metroid was fun to boot up and play with my dad with a map printout and shit, good times.

If you need something a bit more modern however to get into it, would definitely recommend Blaster Master Zero since its a reboot of the original, or Touhou Luna Nights like anons have already mentioned. BMZ is a bit more linear though to be fair, but I also cant recommend its two sequels, not a fan of em at all.

>>719262424
Honestly a smaller map and shorter overall game is not a bad thing by any metric. A tight well-paced game is gonna be better than a long game that feels bloated. that's one of the reasons a lot of classic games are considered classic even when people can't articulate why. Like how every chrono trigger "clone" or "inspired by" usually ends up feeling like shit or drags at points.

Usually it's just pacing issues

>>719264492
I don't even know if there will be a third one. Magnolia didn't sell very well from what I have seen. The steam charts look really weak even if it is an indie. Adglobe shut down the english version of their website and their Canadian branch is unreachable online. As for Live Wire they have been going all out on porting Cave's games lately and I suspect it might be due to budgetary stress. It really sucks because the Ender series started with a decent first installment, they two studios clearly learned a lot from that rookie outting and made a ton of improvements, but Magnolia didn't seem to get the same amount of attention Lilies did and I think it hurt sales. Lilies came out right at the height of covid lockdowns when there was a significant captive audience who got into gaming

>>719266939
I 100% agree. I mentioned Astalon in that post because I beat it a few weeks ago. I sat down on a Friday night and Sunday evening I had finished it. It played for maybe 15-20 hours over all, but the denisity of gameplay was very well done. Almost every room in the game is filled with traps, puzzles, secretpassages, or character interactions which made me excited to backtrack because I was certain that on the second or even third visit to a room I would find something I never discovered the first time around. Even after beating the game and being certain that I found everything I discovered that I still had not completly found ever secret. In a way it kind of reminded me of old school games like Milon's Palace or Tower of Druaga, but without the completely obscured random bullshit you would need to do to find the secrets. Astalon, for as much as it had hidden, was usually pretty good in leaving very subtle breadcrumbs to diagetically guide the player towards its more opaque puzzles.

That said, I am a glutton and if a dev can give me a tightly paced game, plenty of hidden stuff to keep me interested, AND a massive map I am 100% going to want it.

>>719234617 (OP)
Play Shantae the pirate's curse.
It's simple enough, has platforming , cute and not hard. Also the best in the series.Then move on to other stuff

despite being a bit too lighthearted and simplistic, this was still a super fun game. A metroidvania incorporating pinball mechanics had no right working so well

>>719234617 (OP)
Play Shadow Man

>>719267903
usually it's pacing that determines how much I keep to a game. well paced stuff? 100%ing easily like Astalon, momodora reverie or Shantae Pirate's curse.
drags a bit or has some unfun mechanics? I'll beat the main story and leave it. Did that with Dread, moonlit farewell, minoria, etc

Been dropping a lot lately though just from being a bit unfun. Smelter really wanted to be megaman and actraiser more than it wanted to be a metroidvania and did them all poorly. and a lot of names I don't remember

>>719268106
Not a Metroidvania.