Thread 719867648

Why even have healers in an MMO? They're tedious to level up and only offer one type of utility

>>719867648 (OP)
never played an mmo but don't healers have revive skills

Because it's easy to design long ass boss fights if you got a bunch of healers keeping everyone up. The only problem is that every boss fight becomes overly similar and boring.

I sure miss Golden Sun. But it can never come to be again, Nintendo's defacto JRPG franchise is xenoblade.

Why even have tanks? They just stand there and get hit.
Why even have dps? They just stand there and press their rotation(unless you play classic wow, where you just stand and press one button).

Your idea of what MMOs look like comes from the early 2000s.

>>719867648 (OP)
>They're tedious to level up
Maybe have some friends if you're going to play a MULTIPLAYER game?

>>719868763
Nope. Solo-queue matchmaking, speedrunning the dungeon, votekicking new players and never talking to anyone. That's how you play MMOs.

>>719867648 (OP)
because games like battlefield have proven that you are all literally retarded.
you cant even push Q to spot everything you see and you expect to be able to micromanage all different kinds of utilities like cleanses/shields/buffs/heals/dots/hots/etc

you have no fucking hope of success and your existence in such a world would be a detriment to everyone.

you cant even hold lmb and walk out of the fucking lava
completely empty without thought

>i hate healers
>have you ever played as one?
>no the class is too hard ;_;
Every time
Just admit that you are a mindless dps monkey and Healers are superior to you

>>719867707
Yep, pretty much their most important role is making it so the party doesn't have to walk back because they fucked up.
And trying to stop them from needing a rez by healing is also pretty important too.

>>719867648 (OP)
Healers are worthless.
In my ideal perfect MMO, all classes would
be different favours of DPS.
There would be light and fast DPS, strong and heavy DPS, glass cannon DPS that does more damage but is takes less hits to kill, ranged DPS, melee DPS, ranged-melee hybrids, single target DPS, area of attack DPS and so on.
Tanking is replaced by needing to avoid enemy attacks or parry or block them. Healing is done by resting and applying first aid and potions outside of combat and healing during combat is very limited.
This way, everyone is allowed to have fun, nobody is forced to play boring support rolls that would get shredded in seconds in solo battles and ERP is kept at a minimum too.

I like how ESO does it, with most classes having their own trees for dps, healing and tanking that are so cheap to unlock and level that you can just slot different shit to change roles any time.
The trinity seems fucked in that game though, damage dealers don't deserve heals and rezzing is a dd responsibility since the party wipes if the healer gets out of the tank's pocket for 1 second

I admit that I like playing healers or supports mostly because I simply enjoy being nice to other people and helping them. Online or IRL, being useful and helpful makes me happy. I'm sorry.

>>719867648 (OP)
>Guess who's not getting healed
I fucking hate ego gamers like you wouldn't believe. Every time one shows up you end up having to put all your effort and concentration towards being a shrink so they don't kill the entire raid and then themselves.

I like an MMO where healers are actually just healers and not another magic dps that can somehow heal. I want healers to be helpless without someone's help and can't level up without any party members. I want to be that healer

Mia is never like that in Golden Sun.
She's always a credulous little perfect angel.

I want to play a healer in an MMO after seeing some Aquaposting, how do I start?

>>719867648 (OP)
Healing used to be a task that was spread across the team, and/or something that was one's own responsibility. A dedicated healer is nothing more than a contrivance for a contrived system.

>>719869959
FFXI White Mage is pretty much that, they have access to damaging spells but for the most part they are not going to be winning any 1v1's unless the target is a small bug.

>>719869959
Why not just watch porn?
Just go on rule 34 or e621 and search "Healerslut" or something.
No need to create an entire really crappy MMO only so gooners can ERP as healersluts with other gooners.

>>719867648 (OP)
So there's something for women and faggots to play.

>>719867648 (OP)
Healers server a very important function in MMOs. They provide something for mongs to do

>>719869312
No, I am a mindless tanktard. DPS rotations scare me.
>Just stand in front of boss
>Do my overly simple 123 combo
>Get hit by what I am supposed to be hit by
>Sometimes use some mitigation so healer stops crying about their MP or some shit
>Everyone happy, no one cares about my damage

What are good MMOs to tank nowadays?
I already played WoW and FFXIV for a long while.

>>719867648 (OP)
Because we all saw what happened to GW2 group content when they removed the trinity on launch. It just became everyone piling up in a corner so all the mobs get forced on top of you so you can spam AoE's and hope your shared defensive CD's are enough to kill them all before you run out.

>>719867648 (OP)
How do you even make tanks and healers interesting in MMOs? They feel so important but also so boring, there's no real skill expression available.

I feel like the reason they both suck and are always so easy is because developers realise they have to get people to play them or else the game won't function. Maybe instead they could try making them, I dunno, interesting? Or at the very least give them a low skill floor but high ceiling.

>>719870417
>How do you even make tanks and healers interesting in MMOs?
Axe them!
>>719869460

>>719870417
If you make them "interesting" you need to add a modicum of mechanics and that would lead droves of autists to anxiety, not playing tanks/healers and returning to your problem.
It's an endless loop.
You try to fix it, people don't play it, you dumb it down so people play it, they become braindead.

>>719868694
they haven't changed since then

>>719870479
Your idea is worthless, you don't want an MMO you want to play an action game, so go play an action game.

>>719869460
>In my ideal perfect MMO, all classes would be different favours of DPS

So, Guild Wars 2?

>>719868694
It's funny how the same things people said about actors and other TV people is repeated to famous internet individuals they dislike.
They're called e-celebs for a reason, huh.

>>719870521
Cross-realm group finder & shit like discord becoming omni-present happened.

>>719870479
I used to play Wizardry Online, and while there were healers, you were super limited by MP in a dungeon, which was pretty cool. Kind of in a way similar to what you are saying, since you mostly did healing out of combat.
I miss that game, it had a ton of fucking issues but a really nice blueprint for something cool.

>>719869959
healers are dumb and useless without a strong tank by their side to protect them.

dedicated healers are bad.
supports/tanks that can also heal is much better

>>719868279
It's more about Camelot flubbing the sequel than Nintendo

>>719870548
But that system would not be infestedwith ERPing coomers unlike healerslop.

>>719871384
You playing an action game by yourself might be infested by the boogie men in your head, but at least they aren't in the game.

>>719871572
>Incomprehensable ESL babble.

>>719871627
If you can't read English that's fine, but don't push it on someone else.

>>719871662
>>719871572
>THAT
>"English"
Kekaroo!

>>719871627
>>719872310
pedro you're not fooling anyone with your 3-word replies

>>719867648 (OP)
I love playing as a healer, it really pulls my subby strings... Being dependent on other, stronger and manlier men, serving them, being their bitch, even... I feel kinda guilty for daydreaming something like that, specially when others wouldn't necessarily want to get involved, but I can't help it.

>>719872407
Fuck off Tryrone. Back to english class with your ass.

>>719872471
You are a balding greasy fat man in a drag

>>719872692
not really, I have plenty of hair, I'm clean and I bet I weight less than you do...

>>719872745
You a twink? Heal me, now.

>>719868279
It had two good games, one meh timeskip sequel.
Golden Sun had a somewhat good run, above average. Let it rest.
No need to milk franchises forever until they are unrecognizable. So in a sense I'm glad for Dark Dawn.

I am the best Ragnarok Online priest.

>>719870083
hmmm
parody, troll, or retarded (genuine)
call it.

>>719872745
I probably weigh the least of everyone on this board.
Sadly, that is not exactly a good thing. I wish I was more heavy, sturdy and powerful. But at least I am very fast.

>>719874337
That wasn't the point, you silly boy. Maybe you should be a healer too...

>>719867707
The entire point of healers in mmo is helping the team. Otherwise the game becomes hack and slash.

They should make an MMORPG where you talk with people and go in a journey around the world without a main quest unless you want to with things like timers for rides and stuff, why don't they do that?

>>719874712
Fuck no! I am the slim, fast, psychotic dual wield DPS.

Games should all be classless, and there should be no magic abilities for your character.

>>719867648 (OP)
where is the twink version?

>>719874748
>otherwise the game becomes fun

>>719875683
Completely unironically, I like low- or no magic medieval fantasy settings.
Attack magic is lame and without magic, you will need more creativity to solve different broblems and tools like ropes, climbing sets, lanterns, black powder bombs and bear traps become an actually important part of adventuring. Magic often feels like a cheap solves-everything solution.
Sadly, nobody else on the entire earth feels this way.

>>719874748
The point of healers is horny ERP. "Hack and slash", aka. action combat, is fun.

>>719867648 (OP)
Trinity is the best we got.
If you take away the healers you still either have to self heal or find healing stuff on the ground so everybody has to do everything, there are mmo/mmo-lites that do this, pso2ng, once human, but everybodys role is effectively the same and there is no differentiation between requirements for things other than number of bodies, and when it is a metaslave parsing dps epeen battle when everybodys role is the same, everybody plays the exact same class, the exact same way, and there is no variety.

>>719869959
This, and in single-player games also. When I see my healer character being able to deal damage, I uninstall. If I wanted to damage enemies, I wouldn't pick a healer.

>>719877318
JUST! WATCH! PORN!

>>719877318
Do you just want to do nothing when people are at full hp then?

>>719877458
NTA but I'd like it if healers had more stuff like damage buffs that they can use on others when they're full hp...

>>719877441
I'M WATCHING IT, DAMN IT!
>>719877458
Normally you can buff, or remove debuffs, or do some other positive shit, depends on the game. You either never tried it, or are being disingenuous for some reason.

In Etrian Odyssey I played a healer because healers got these huge mallets for whatever stupid anime reason, but I then put him on the front line and built him for DPS.

When I imagine the tank is a bratty loli, I understand healsluts. Though I only like healers that can also occasionally vaporize people.

>>719867648 (OP)
Healers also often have buffs/debuffs and targeted/raidwide mitigation in their toolsets as well.

>>719877879
Healers shouldn't have debuffs, that's what necromancers and warlocks are for.

>>719867648 (OP)
>the opposite spectrum:
>pull so hard and so fast the healer is running on fumes the whole dungeon, having to spam the drink button when the last mob is at 3%
>party already running ahead to pull again
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>719867648 (OP)
Because it's much easier to design content around tank and spank.

>>719878020
Shouldn't a Necromancer be the one that turns the corpses of fallen enemies into slaves to do all the combat for him while he stand back and occasionally throws a magic bolt or two?

>>719878313
Of course he should. Too bad most devs are too afraid to implement it like that. Here's your one zombieish minion and dark-colored mage spells, enjoy.

>>719869460
>my perfect MMO would keep all the classes but label them all DPS
Bravo anon very innovative

>>719867648 (OP)
That image is wrong.

As a healer in an MMO you just look at a bunch of bars that go up down constantly and try to keep them as high as possible. You don't even see what the other players are doing because the bars clutter up the screen. If you need to move to avoid an AOE you typically just follow the mages.

>>719877590
>wasting MP to buff your party on trash mobs
ngmi
healers should carry a good melee option to conserve MP

>>719869312
Healing's the easiest role in every MMO
>keep buffs and HOTs up
>use burst heals when some retard forgets to block or stands in red
>strafe around the group and enemies
You can do it on 800 ping.

>>719881249
Tank
>stand there
>get threat

Dps
>do damage

So which is the easiest

>>719869701
This is because most tanks are dogshit in ESO. My trial group's got entirety self sufficient tanks and the healers just keep the DPSs up through AOEs.

>>719881326
DPS is the hardest one.
>have to cast your skills and debuffs properly to maximize damage
>very low HP and no way to heal yourself
At least tanks have a shitton of health, and healers can heal themselves. That said, tanks are the most important ones. If a DPS goes down, you still have like two other ones. If a healer goes down, you have a small window of time to get him back up. If a tank goes down, you’re fucked

>Healer
>Gets raped by horses, dogs, pigs and sharks.
>DPS
>Does not get raped by horses, dogs, pigs and sharks.
One option seems clearly like the superiour one here.
Small hint: It is not the healer.

>>719867648 (OP)
I never got into MMOs beyond a few weeks or months of play with friends, but I hear about these healer players being massive cocksuckers like this. If this happened I would just leave the group or guild. I put up with enough vainglorious morons at work, why the hell would I tolerate that in my relaxation time?

>>719881834
But what if I want to get raped?

>>719881705
>click your macro

If the tank goes down then the backup tank takes over its not an issue

Honestly its like you've never done high level raiding

>>719867648 (OP)
Ok hear me out. Why have mmo's? Just give everyone the raid experience or pvp experience without the level part. Just pick a character with a defined role and play it.

>>719867648 (OP)
I don't think Jessica ever acts like that. Actuality I think they're making this up.

>>719882123
I would play that game but they don't make them. Why aren't there games that are just raiding/dungeon simulators? I know some people might find them boring but I would 100% play them.

>>719882123
>>719882460
There's TrinityS but that is a boss fight simulator.

>>719882728
it seems interesting, but the reviews seem to be rather low

>>719870548
Tanks and healers are not required in MMOs, RPGs or MMORPGs.

>>719869460
Best post in the thread, hands down.

>>719882828
I haven't played it since 2022, when it was still in early access. You should only play it if you have someone to play with. The CPU bots are smart enough to cooperate and win the fight with you, but there's no fun in that.
The boss fights at that time were decently hard. Try watching some gameplay videos.

>>719883638
I assume the game is dead by now

Why do people refuse to accept that people actually like playing healers? a lot of people do. I have always enjoyed playing healers just because the gameplay is satisfying.

>>719883804
Because nobody actually enjoys the gameplay of playing a healer and everyone just plays healer to have horny ERP sex publicly, which I, as a DPS, find very unpleasant to witness.

>>719867648 (OP)
I was hoping this would be a golden sun thread.
I am sad it's not.

>>719883804
I don't mind that people like to play healers, there will always be some games that appeal to you support faggots. I just don't like those games because healers tend to ruin them.

>>719884628
This. Healers are way too porn brained and their public ERP is compromising my immersive adventure experience.
In the real lif middle ages, if people would openly have sex in public places, they would get executed. They should do this in MMOs too.

b-but I just want to be a subby, obedient pet for tank studs and dps chads...

>>719884980
Please go take your ERP to e621 and stay out of my MMO video games.

Once you realize healers are negative DPS an entire design space opens up

I still hate healers

>>719872927
On one hand, I agree with you, but on the other hand, I think Golden Sun is still salvageable even after the travesty that was DD and isn't even close to being too milked. But, if they're just going to fuck it up again, I'd rather it stay dead.

>>719882196
>Jessica
What?

>>719885246
God forbid combat should require any utility or strategy, everyone should just click on their shiny buttons in order and go through their Excel optimized rotation over and over to make big numbers

>>719885246
Like what, genuinely, what opens up?

>>719867648 (OP)
Healslut thread though? :3

>>719888313
>everyone should just click on their shiny buttons in order and go through their Excel optimized rotation over and over to make big numbers
That's what healerslop MMOs are like.
In a good game, you would be more concerned about your dodging, parrying, positioning, quick thinking and knowing when and how to strike the enemy or aiming your shots with ranged weapons than spamming your flashy cooldown ability effects and such crap.

>>719869856
*rapes you*

>>719888893
I do wonder, why do retards like you, who've never played an MMORPG, is in a thread about MMORPGs?

The trinity was important in mmos because each role being unique, relying on each other strengthened bonds and co-operation.

Most of you dont want MMOs, you want live service rpgs because your egos cannot handle the existance of other people.

>>719889110
I played some crap Corean MMOs and they always ended up making me depressed.
Stuff like Dark Souls multiplayer or Mordhau are better MMOs.

>>719889390
Thought so. Let me pose a question to you, if Dark Souls boss fights fall apart in co-op. what makes you stupid enough to believe that it could work in an MMORPG?

>>719867648 (OP)
>Dungeon Fighter Online
>Sader is mandatory
>Ragnarok Online
>Priest is mandatory
>Dragon Nest
>Saint is mandatory
>Guild war 2
>Healer are not mandatory
>Blade and soul
>No healer, pure raw tank skill check
>Maplestory
>Bishop is not mandatory
>Tera
>Priest/Mystic are not mandatory but it make your run really smooth
>World of warcraft
>I expect you to heal and do damage

>>719870020
She didn't have any sort of personality.

>>719889603
Just add a ton more enemies and make the bosses really overpowered so players will have to cooperate to succeed, just like humans had to cooperate in the ice ages to beat a mammoth or people had to cooperate in the middle ages in warfare. Everyone in the team will have to work together to fell the boss.

>>719889314
The worst part is whenever this fags get a whiff of a new MMORPG, they immediately start begging the devs to make it "solo-friendly".

>>719889885
You didn't answer the question at all, though I'm not surprised given your ignorance.

>>719867648 (OP)
>Real life doctors
>Based
>Rich
>Highly intelligent and learned people
>Risk takers
>Heroes saving peoples lifes

>MMO healers
>Dumb sluts
>Always horny
>No real skills
>No self respect or dignity
>Poor because cucked out of all the loot by DPS and tank
>Nobody really likes them as anything more than cheap fuckmeat
>Gets raped by dogs, horses, elephants, sharrks and pigs all the time.

>>719890407
You are an idiot and your question was foolishly worded.

>>719867648 (OP)
Don't care, sex with Mia.

>>719890606
No it wasn't you ignorant dog. If you've played Dark Souls like you claim, then you'd know exactly what I was talking about.

>>719891224
>Tranny dog ERP out of nowhere.
Yuck! Away with thee, foul gooner tranny!

>>719891365
>Actually got mind broken when confronted
If you don't play MMORPGs, why are you even here?

>>719891838
You just wanted an excuse to call someone else a "dog" didn't you tranny? Go to e621 with your disgusting erp crap.

>>719890532
>Dumb sluts
>Always horny
>No real skills
>No self respect or dignity
You described doctors here pretty accurately, they're all useless sluts

>>719892289
Seek help.

>>719892480
Seek some rope and a chair.

>>719881705
>gets babied by the rest of the team
>only duty is to top the DPS meter
>claims it was a solo effort when he does

>>719869460
You're basically describing most of GW2. They had to add healers back in for raids because it didn't work.

>>719892634
>DPS
>The badass hero who actually gets to slay the monsters and save the day or slay the other players and become the crowned champion of the arena!
>Tank
>Stands around doing nothing and gets beaten up
>Healer
>Team rape pet because that needs to be a thing for some reason

>>719870226
I'll argue that the problem wasn't the class design. It was the content design. They just didn't know how to build instanced content that can't be exploited with just 5 warriors in a stack. New meta is just mostly DPS and DPS with buffs and you still have interesting content.

>>719867648 (OP)
It's a really good utility.

>>719889957
Some games you have no choice but to sit around spamming world channels trying to find groups to do anything at all. Which means no group no play.
I'm not expecting to solo the things I need a group to do, it is just nice to have something to do when no group is happening.

>>719869959
Based healslut.

>>719867648 (OP)
Nothing is cringier than a healer who's safe in their ivory tower, pretending to be the team tactician

Your job is literally to just stare at HP bars and tap buffs
The entire run is made or broken solely by the tanks efforts, the healer is merely his accessory, because if the tank falls, everyone falls
and if the tank fucks up, the boss will just run around shredding healers and DPS players because none of them can survive even 5 seconds of aggro from anything in an endgame boss arena

>>719881705
>have to cast your skills and debuffs properly to maximize damage
No you don't

In no where does a DPS job involve "maximizing damage"
a DPS job is extremely simple,
compensating the lack of damage of the healer and tank, not stroking their ego with metamaxxing

In short, a dps players only job is to not die and hit enemy, because even at their worst, they're still doing far more damage than the healer and tank are.
if you're really going to dive deep in to it, then maybe you could argue that a DPS has to focus the right targets, but that's more or less the tank's job since they're the ones who have to juggle aggro

>>719894961
The only difference between tanks and healers is that tanks babysit mobs and healers babysit players. And players are far more volatile and unpredictable than mobs - it's always the same mob with the same stats, it always spawns at the same stage and location, and always does the same shit.

>>719897187
The job of the healer is to "babysit" the DPS and the tanks pets and mounts large engorged cocks.

>>719893186
>>The badass hero who
avoids monsters like the plague and waits for somebody else to attack first so they can attack it from behind!
I'm not sure we have the same conception of what a badass hero is.

i think that heal over time gameplay, like druid in WoW, is very mechanically compelling

>>719897995
I attack mobs from behind because
1. tanks are known to throw shit fits if people don't wait for them and let them do everything first
2. healers are known to throw shit fits if they have to do their job and heal people who take damage
3. the devs made it deal more damage

HA HA HA
OKTOBERFEEEST

>>719898413
>3. the devs made it deal more damage
You ought to thank them for more than just that (aside from it just making sense in some cases like LOTRO, since enemies can't parry things behind them). Tanks attack things too - "just stand there and be hit" is also called being shit - and the only reason they're not also DPS is because the devs made them deal less damage.

>>719898540
Dumb ESL pajeet. Speak english. American website! MAGA! Hail Trump!

in the mmo i used to play, the acolyte class (healer) had 2 transformations, cleric or druid.
clerics could use shields hammers and staffs, making them better at tanking than the dedicated tank class (because they had built in healing duh), and on top of that they could render the magic classes useless in pvp because they had the longest silence debuff in the game.
druid was a jack of all traits (wolf for physical dps, monkey for tank, eagle for magic dps, human for healer) and with decent grinding it was the single most independent class in the whole game.
i miss playing grand fantasia, such a shame the game is so fucking p2w.

>>719899232
>clerics could use shields hammers and staffs
I hate that trope.
Hammers and maces are DPS coded weapons.

>>719899356
>DPS coded weapons

>play dps
>tank is retarded and makes fails gimmicks causing wipe before boss dies

>play tank
>healer is shit and you die before boss dies

>play healer
>dps is shit, taking too long to clear raid and the tank once again makes mistakes causing wipe

The hardest pill to swallow is that people who play mmos are fucking retarded, so the only way to win any sort of group activity is either be very picky with party members or to not play at all. If you're the anti social type who doesn't want to act like group leader to manage the group or if you're a soft pussy who's afraid to kick retards who's wasting everyone elses time out of fear of hurting their feelings then you might as well as not play at all.

>>719900008
Judging by the pic you posted, you are probably the biggest retard and the other players were the sane ones.

>>719867648 (OP)
Because MMOs have been cursed with dogshit design for decades in attempts to sand off any level of friction imaginable to appeal to a wider market. There's nothing wrong with a trinity of complementary design, hell it doesn't even need to be a trinity of tank, healers, and DPS. GW2 - unfortunately the only MMO released in the last decade that actually tried to do something different was able to eventually find a new trinity to design their game around (ironically, by making healers an actual role.)

The issue isn't the inherent existence of a trinity, the issue is that the design space has been sanded down to the point that its simply boring, because design with more nuance and depth means a higher skill curve and heaven fucking forbid someone potentially has a negative play session due to a skill issue from another player. While more niche, older MMOs were able to solve this issue by the simple fact that being locked to a player pool of a local server meant that players could develop local reputations. The shitty healer would get filtered out over time thanks to a poor reputation, but with mega servers and matchmaking there is no such social contract, so instead designers made the roles are boring as possible to play to ensure that no mouth breathing retard might make your 12 minute dungeon run take 16 minutes instead.

>>719869312
>have you ever played a healer?
No, I'm straight.

>>719900092
Anyone care to make a qualified guess on what part of the post aggro'd the troon? Is it maybe a self relate to the situation thing where he got kicked for wasting peoples time or is it just the anime tittys?

>>719900371
>troon
You were the one posting tranny slop pictures.

>>719900008
I'll never understand why people ragequit or vote kick over wipes. 99% of the time I'm there because I either like the raid, I'm trying it out, or because someone asked me to join. No matter which one it is I can't see myself getting mad about someone else's poor performance.

I have to assume you're an overworked dad with only 2 hours to spend on gaming and you hate the combat and the content and are only there for compulsive farming.

>>719900602
It's a symptom of the no child left behind mentality of modern MMO game design. MMOs continue to be designed for just the end-game to be the only meaningful portion of the overall play experience, and as a result do not create a leveling experience that serves to properly teach the full depth of game mechanics, let alone craft an experience that can create enough friction to filter out the shitty player. When you combine this with the lack of tools or social systems to allow a virtual community to properly police itself it naturally fosters a low-trust virtual society where players do not have the patience to hope that the new group of strangers with a high likelihood of never seeing again will figure their shit out.

It would be easy to just call it a player problem and call it a day, but I would argue that the type of player modern MMOs continue to nurture is due to the flaws in the modern design.

>>719900602
Pressed for time they will not wait for improvement.
It is subset to a bigger problem that is players playing for the result and not the process. The race to the level cap is now a chore in the way of getting max level gear. Dungeon crawling is now a chore in the way of attaining BIS gear. A party member not performing correctly is dropping below peak efficiency for the job- I mean game.

all MMO roles are easy. what's hard is managing a large group of retards, such as the people in this thread arguing about what easy thing is the most difficult.

>>719901445
The real retards are the game designers who came up with tanks and especially healers.
Who thought being an accessory to someone else being the main character is fun gamme design?
And did they smoke 10 gallons of horse cum when making up the healer class speciffically or what?

>>719901645
no one is the main character it's an MMO you fucking retard. you'd be one of the people I'd be dragging around by the collar in raids no doubt.

>>719899356
well, my first introduction to fantasy classes was this game so for me clerics have always been able to use hammers.
also, would you classify this thing as dps coded?

>>719901860
>More tranny ERP, but this time with collars.
Yawn.

>>719872927
They could just make an all new one with expanded systems nowadays.
No connection whatsoever to the old games outside of some easter eggs.

>>719901873
>Huge chunk of steel on a long pole warriors could ever use to any effect to smash trough armor and crush a dragons skulls.
>Somehow not the DPS coded weapon.
Mentally ill game design.

The problem with MMOs is they require playing with other people. I'm not sure how many of you interact with people who play MMOs, but they all suck. Wow implemented a single button that plays the game for people.

>>719902302
>require playing with other people
That's the good part about MMOs and the main and only reason to play them.
The problem is the atrocious combat and useless roles like healer and tank.

>>719901645
The core concept of the trinity of tank, healers, and DPS originates from regular RPGs. It's just three roles that all compliment each other in a group (tank soaking up the damage for the party, healers keeping members alive, and DPS offsetting the amount of lost offensive potential the healers and tanks sacrificed for their utility.) You could on paper replace this trinity with any other trinity of player roles that complement each other and get the same results, the current concept of tanks, healers, and DPS was just the easiest version of the concept for developers to realize, especially during the earlier MMO eras where technical limitations were more heavy handed. You could on paper replace that same trinity with something like a design space where every player can do damage, but with different roles stapled on like healing, buffing, and debuffing as its own sub-roles and get the same effect.

If anything, with modern server infrastructure allowing for more action oriented gameplay in a multiplayer space, it's tanks as a role that is becoming the most redundant. With garbage internet infrastruture of the 90s and 2000s making action oriented combat impossible at a massive scale, tanks made sense, but in an era where you could genuinely craft a multiplayer game that offers player agency on how they avoid or mitigate incoming damage unless your game has a heavy emphasis on enemy positioning (something sadly most modern MMOs have been doing away with) there's just less open design space for meaningful gameplay interactions for the tank to do.

>>719867648 (OP)
Healer/support classes should be erased from video games. Just enabling retards with 0 skill to play games.

>>719902237
well i mean why would a warrior equip a hammer when this is what axes do?

>>719902535
healers should just be expected to also do competitive damage, healing coming at the cost of other utility or their damage being less universally good like giving them dots instead of direct-damage or making the damage based on their healing

>>719902430
It was the only good part of MMOs and made suffering though farming mats or killing 100 rats barrable. I'd mark the difference between as the social aspect of MMOs, for example standing in front of a dungeon bullshiting with people while trying to put together a viable team. But yeah, the gameplay sucks in them all, thus the auto play mode in wow.

>>719902447
Early MMOs had much more, roles dedicated to buffing, debuffing, cc etc.
The trinity is already a simplification due to party formation constraints in practice.

>>719902662
Because I can't imagine any melee weapon that has more raw power an damage than a two handed hammer, especially one of the bigger sort.
Really, the only thing that should hit harder would be explosives and for explosives, you need to buy and carry one for every attack you make, while a hammer handle should last months and the head centuries.

why don't we have more mmos or even single player rpgs that actually try to emulate the ttrpg experience? where the environment is its own antagonist as well where you need a utility focused person to actually deal with shit, and you don't have designated "healers" or "tanks" and instead everyone has some responsibility in making sure everyone survives?

>>719902771
The moment healers were given good damage they tried to squeeze every inch of DPS they can and forgot about actually healing.
At least it forces tanks to git gud and filters shitty dps.

>>719902771
castti was awesome

>>719902915
Such roles did exist, but support was always a dark horse separate from the traditional trinity. Like yeah sure, everyone and their mother absolutely loved having a Bard in the party in a game like FFXI, but the foundation of that party was still built upon having a tank, a healer, and DPS. The Supports were the cherry on top that just made everyone better.

>>719902447
the simplification has poisoned the actual power fantasy of being a priest or a berserker
wanting to use the power of god to revive people is one thing, but you being tied to your party in such a way where you're just paying attention to their numbers go down is not fun
as for tanks, being a berserker is about using your rage to crush your enemies, not turn yourself into a magnet so the wimpy rogue can do a crit flush

>>719903432
game design that is more complex than a paper box would have support be essential

>>719903453
Imagine giving players a toolkit and letting them figure out party compositions based on how much they can dish, take and heal damage instead of hard coding them into a "role". The Rogue could even "tank" enemies that hit hard but had low accuracy etc.
I know it's impossible for actual vidya to do this due to balancing/meta retards reason and in practice nobody would ever play properly.

>>719902919
well, in this game specifically, a lot of hammers have the ability to stun the target, so i guess thats how they decided to translate the "hard hitting mace" thing into gameplay. also, the only reason i brought up the weapon thing is that this game managed to make almost every class independent (by giving clerics shields to tank, for example), so that the only time you actually need someone that actually knows theyre doing is in high level weekly raids, that realistically you would be doing in a discord call with people that you know beforehand.

The best healers are the ones who ignore their team and just kill the enemy team the entire game

Dammit, I thought this was a Golden Sun's thread.

>>719903643
I guess the overworked, underpaid, underqualified "game designer" smashed a block of cocaine over his head, then snorted the entire thing, then injected an entire liter of the Krokodil drug and then poured an entire barrel of mixed horse- and dog semen down his throat before he started "game designing" then and that's the explaination how axes and swords hit harder than hammers.

>>719903639
a dodge tank seems more appropriate of a power fantasy than a damage sponge honestly
imagine how cool it would be if positioning was actually really important in an mmo and the rogue just abuses that by kiting enemies into danger, distracting them from trying to take out the mages, or isolating a powerful enemy to duel them so the rest of the party can handle everyone else
taunt hardly makes sense for your honorable knight to do, but fits very well for the wisecracking rogue to

>>719869959
same

>>719903453
I would argue its the dumbing down of the concept combined with the demand for faster paced games clashing with each other. For slower moving games like Everquest for FFXI, I think the original concept was solid, because combat moved at a pace slow enough for players to remain truly tactical even with only text chat while also adding more layers to the combat sandbox to make it interesting. For example, I absolutely loved the concept of volatile hate in FFXI, it added such a layer of spice to the overall combat sandbox. If you're unfamiliar with the concept, basically in FFXI all actions performed in combat had an associated volatile hate value with it (basically, massive spikes of aggro on the player who used the action that quickly dissipates.) This added a layer of risk to your most potent actions and demanded proper planning between you and your party to avoid letting aggro go out of control and cause player deaths. One reason why Dark Knights in that game had a reputation for getting themselves killed was from bad Dark Knights not understanding that their core damage abilities also gave them a fuckton of volatile hate and just popping everything at once and likely immediately exploding because they just inflicted like 3 provokes worth of hate onto themselves, but such a mechanic only worked because combat moved slow enough for players to realistically parse it.

The tragedy of the MMO genre was when server infrastructure got good enough to allow for faster combat, but not good enough to allow for true real time action combat, and developers not adapting the trinity concept to better fit the ugly middle stage of server technology with it. Guild Wars 2 was like the only real mainstream release from the tab-target era that ever thought that maybe the trinity should be crafted with different design better suiting the faster nature of tab target combat vs literal menu based combat like in games like FFXI.

>>719903432
If we're talking oldschool mmos, then dps wasn't even a part of the "holy trinity." Everquest is the game that popularized that term in mmorpgs, and it referred to 3 specific classes. Warrior, Cleric & Enchanter. Warrior was considered the best tank, cleric the best healer and enchanter brought the best support in the game. Crowd control, mana regen, attack speed buffs, even charmed npcs that could rival dps, though most enchanters didn't risk using that back then. Occasionally you'd see substitutes like bard over enchanter in that trinity, but the general idea of what it meant to be one of those 3 roles remained the same.
It was called the holy trinity because if you had those three classes in your group then you could fill out the rest of the party with drooling retards and it'd still be amazing. There was nothing holy about bringing something like a ranger or rogue. MMO players in general had much less of a focus on dps so classes that only brought damage were seen as filler, especially in raids that did not have strict player count limitations. A class like necromancer was valued more for its mana recovery than any of the damage it could do, because nearly everyone already provided damage in some form.
Because support has been phased out of newer games and theres strict requirements on how many people you can bring, the role of doing damage has become more important and people care more about optimizing it. The holy trinity including dps is just a sad reminder of how streamlined these games are now with simplistic roles.

>>719903982
no you see
swords have lower damage, but higher accuracy and inherent higher attack speed
hammers have mid damage, but mid attack speed and accuracy, and also hammer tend to stun
axes have higher damage, but slow attack speed and low accuracy, while also having the best "if this weapon activates, do more damage" abilities.
also, i guess you missed it in the weapon, but warrior classes can use hammers. in fact, they can use hammers swords and axes.

>>719905424
>hammers have mid damage
>axes have higher damage
So exactly what I said in >>719903982

>>719872927
That's how I feel with Castlevania and Soulcalibur

>>719905232
this really is more appropriate for team based game, someone being the designated attacker just means everyone revolves around them

>>719867648 (OP)
I once remember adventuring with a healer and tank but when we got to the boss raid, the healer failed to heal me and I almost died. I got so mad that I took the healer, broke his arms, broke his legs and threw him into a pot and kindles a fire beneath the pot. I then started cooking the healer into a deliscious human meat soup and ate it. The warm, tasty meal felt like a reasonable compensation for failing to heal me during the boss raid.

>>719867648 (OP)
i had a crush on mia, how did u know

>>719906505
My irl crush cosplayed as Mia and I had a crush on both.
I wish I could be born again not being a retard and live life normally.

>>719905232
Fair enough if that is how the term contextually originated from. I was too young for Everquest so by the time I started playing my first MMO with FFXI, the term had already settled in closer to the modern terminology we have today. In FF in the majority of content you tended to be limited to smaller party sizes so while supports still existed and were always heavily desired (a bard never needed to wait long to find groups at any level, supports were always good and heavily coveted in groups) it also helped that the best sources of damage primarily came from player co-operation so in a roundabout way damage was still a job everyone was needing to cover thanks to the skill chain and magic burst systems. (DPS jobs were more about being able to set-up and activate skill chains and magic bursts more efficiently, or being the heavy hitters to best detonate those skill chains when primed) >>719905783 really hits the nail on the head with the flaw in the design concept in modern MMOs. It's such a shame that GW2 failed to launch with the modern combat sandbox that it has, because it did with time manage to finally find what was always the best way to evolve the concept for the faster nature of tab target combat.

I don't get the hate for healers and healing, in my healer days I only ever healed sub 20% health havers and spent most of my time practicing cool 20 damage combos or arguing in chat, shit was fun and I was always invited first

>>719906727
The reasons healers are hated:
1. It's a lame boring roll that isn't really involved in the combat but just stands back and supports the true heroes.
2. Healers are a low skill role played by low skill people.
3. All healers are horny sluts who are more interested in getting their buttholes filled than winning the fights and gaining the loot.

>>719872927
>one meh timeskip sequel
The meh timeskip sequel ended on a massive cliffhanger, and if the lost age is any indication, it would have been a better game than its predecessor.

Are there any good games that came out recently where I can be a healer?

>>719867648 (OP)
I love Mia's big fat tits so much it'a unreal.

>>719907329
She was something else.

>>719869312
not everyone is a faggot who likes dressing up as a girl, anon

>>719908259
I played with this other kid who acted like a total fag and only played healsluts. He even had long hair.
I wonder if he finally trooned out or became a twink.

>>719906727
>I don't get the hate for healers and healing
Well...:
>healers are almost always the simplest classes
>they are necessary, so if you play in a group one of you always has to lose the dice roll
>if you have overgeared content and therefore don't need to heal much, your damage rotation is often just 1 or 2 buttons
Games are afraid to make complicated healers because the only people who play them are retarded gachaslop players who got coerced into playing a game they don't really like by their friends.

>>719867648 (OP)
Healing in an MMO can be very fun, but it requires the game's system to value healing and make the healer have to balance cast times and resources. Most current MMOs you have limitless resources and mostly instant casts which trivializes your participation.

FFXI was amazingly fun to heal and WHMs felt really powerful and important. Also you could still equip a club and go bonk shit.

>>719908332
Why did you not hit him with a baseball bat?

No. Every class must have:
1 CC/stun
1 Self-Heal
1 Purge of Negative Effects
1 Interrupt

>tank
>spam taunt over and over
>dps
>spam firebolt over and over
>healer
>spam heal over and over
Why is healer only considered braindead