Thread 720003345

Why was he treated like pure evil when he was actually pretty reasonable?

cuz he gay

Because the game had to come out

Because no one can see Venat

>>720003345 (OP)
Because fuck the rich political people back then. Nowadays he'd be loved as the best character which he already was. He was fighting for your freedom

HANDS OF REINS OF HISTORY MEN

>>720004345
If only his little brother wasn't a little fucking faggot

daily reminder that vayne did nothing wrong

>main villain wants to kill all gods and give people free will
>thats evil because...ITS JUST IS OKAY

BUY MY SWORD

>>720004594
It was just the way he was going about it which was...peacefully taking over Dalmasca for the means of securing the nethecite...so people can be given free will. Yeah real bad guy behavior...

1. Occurian Manipulation
The Occurians hated him. The gods of Ivalice loved being in private control, but Lord Vayne was taking that control away from them. So, every chance the Occurians got, they made people feel hatred and fear of him.

2. Evil was subjective
Lord Vayne knew he was doing the right thing when he took action, or at least the best actions to take to protect Ivalice. Other people claiming him "evil" didn't sway his judgments; he was going to take the same actions regardless of being persecuted as an occultist or praised as a messiah. Morally, it had zero impact on his actions.
He knew what the title "evil" was going to do to his political, social, and historical image and was willing to accept that outcome. Lord Vayne was very responsible for himself and his values. He knew he was fighting a losing battle, but made the struggle anyway, betting on the hope his actions would positively affect other people both immediately and in the following generations.

3. Lord Vayne saw useful contrast and planned for failure
If he failed, which is expected, he knew there MUST be a backup plan. And, though he felt no one else was as capable or motivated to act like he did... he loved his family. He genuinely believed in his brother, Lord Larsa, in being able to replace him at least as a leader. Even though he knew his brother didn't fully share his values, he could EASILY paint himself as "evil" and manipulate others to see Larsa as "good." So when he failed, it would be so much easier for his brother to take his place and be beloved for it. That Larsa could see the example Vayne was showing and trust that his brother would come to understand that, ultimately, he was actually making the right decisions to abandon Occurian gods, even if Larsa wasn't capable of being as powerful a dictator. Larsa was still intelligent and motivated, and Vayne banked on setting the "evil" example was something Ivalice COULDN'T overlook in their idiocy, but Larsa COULD infer a reason.

>>720005125
God I love FFXII. Fuck anyone who hates the game simply because they can't look beyond the combat, which isn't even bad.

>>720003345 (OP)
because you were told to, fucking sheep

>>720005363
It's a fun game with beautiful aesthetics, wonderufl music and I do enjoy the Ivalice setting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWiHFunDwKU

>>720004904
>peacefully invading Dalmasca with an entire fleet of airships and armed soldiers that successfully peacefully shot the king in the throat
>>720005363
There were few things as satisfying as seeing a fully kitted-out party absolutely demolishing the endgame after a long, long treasure hunt.
>>720005445
The real answer is that Vayne had to be opposed simply because he was the closest target available. If Vayne wasn't assassinated, his war with Rosaria would have turned Rabanastre into a crater.

>>720008629
>a single paragraph for most races
>all that for the bangaa
Someone has a type.

>>720003345 (OP)
Because as noble as his goal to free humanity from Occurian influence was, he was still a murderous warlord who carved a bloody swathe across the face of Ivalice. People tend not to like invaders, regardless of their intentions.

>>720003345 (OP)
no idea, I never got that far before I dropped the game

You know almost no one played FFXII when no one mentions this guy basically becomes Broly in the final battle, and is the first final boss in FF history that's a Monk.

Yes, Broly. Not a joke.

>>720005363
Not sure why people were so down on the combat, it was basically Dragon Age before there was Dragon Age. Then again, I played a bunch of CRPGs using real time with pause, so maybe I was the minority in the FF fanbase.

>>720010884
Well, no; that's just a stitch from a "book." All those races got summaries, but with oncoming pages, the author began speaking about the Bangaa. The other races get similarly defined descriptions on pages 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, etc.

>>720011685
O. Is this lorebook available online?

>>720011397
the cutscene before the last fight was kino as well
>vayne: well, we're fucked. Venat you should go into hiding and try again later
>venat: nah nigga we'll die here together like bros
vayne: sick *goes super saiyan*

>>720003345 (OP)
>>720004586
>>720004594
>>720004904
He murdered a religious leader acting as a neutral party purely to prevent Dalmasca from negotiating a peace treaty on its own terms. He killed his dad and 2 of his 3 brothers as a power grab. He may have been dressing it up as freeing mankind from the rule of the gods, but he was never going to allow that to happen without making sure he ended up on top.

>>720005125
Top-tier post

>>720005125
Kino

>>720014918
His dad wanted Vayne to kill him.

>>720014918
so? nothing wrong with a society that serves great men.

>>720014918
>>720015865

if he has the will to make it happen, then he deserves to be on top

>>720015927
Well, he got stabbed to death on top on an airship, so clearly he didn't deserve it after all.

>>720003345 (OP)
This was the last good game Square Enix ever made. They should have made a sequel to this instead of wasting time on Lightning, Homope and the dogshit that was FFXIII. Now we have pink hair troons and femboys everywhere.

Bring back honourable soldiers, leading men and noble lords. Bring back the Judges. Let curs fall upon the sword in droves.

>>720003345 (OP)
Regardless of his moral convictions, much about Vayne smacks of incompetence. Being right morally or even having a right theoretical plan doesn't equal making right decisions.

First of all, he restarted a continent-scale war with no allies on his side. He turned every capable political and military party on the continent against himself, and, more importantly for the future of Ivalice, against his political views. As a result of his aggressive actions, the consequences of which he couldn't foresee, our short-sighted party members were forced to release Espers in self-defence: cornered rats bite ten times harder. He didn't even bother to use diplomacy and cooperation to warn the world of the Ocurrian threat and propose a solution to that threat in the form of the Manufactured Nethicite technological approach.
At the end he failed to conquer the continent despite having a nuclear-like weapon on his side. As a result of his aggression both Ocurrian and based on Manufactured Nethicite orders were abandoned by people. The world was left completely defenceless against the demons of the Cataclysm. They will wipe out the civilisation of Ivalice 80-100 years after the events of XII.

I would argue that Vayne's actions indirectly or even directly led to the rise of religious fundamentalism in the region, resulting in the wiping out of civilization (see Cataclysm). It's just that when the fundamentalists reared their heads, there was no force, the Occuria's force or the Manufactured Nethicite's technological force, to suppress them.

Very unfinished character in terms of writing.

>>720015173
It's not certain, though it's likely that's the case. Regardless of whether they planned it, Gramis wasn't thrilled with Vayne's methods.

>>720015865
>>720015927
... His little brother had the will to make him a bitch, then have his mercenaries beat the shit out of him, so then he deserves it, yes?

>>720003345 (OP)
>villain
>words words words
Always the worst kind of villains. If they have to (over) explain they are 100% wrong.

>>720019790
Problem with Vayne was he wanted a shortcut to solutions rather than to put in actual time such changes would warrant. Which, to be fair, is why we have the game to begin with. If Vayne was less extreme and more sensible he would've won.

>>720025367
VERILY

>>720004594
>thats evil because...ITS JUST IS OKAY
It literally ruined the world forever.

>>720010862
Sex with Ashe

What if we have a white man but with Indian accent?

The only thing I hate about XII desu. Also the international job system. Yes I hate that more I think.

>>720025367
> he wanted a shortcut to solutions rather than to put in actual time such changes would warrant
The motivation to jump straight to quick fixes is very slightly, imperfectly, but explained in the game (picrelated). However, the real reason why they are racing against time is not clear to me. What is clear is that the methods Vayne chose to implement the plan resulted in literally every political faction in the region rebelling against him and his vision. It was not a very smart move. Whatever the reasons for the methods chosen are, they proved unsuccessful, which is quite realistic: it is difficult to fight alone against several armies/factions at once.

>If Vayne was less extreme and more sensible he would've won.
Indeed. I think in vacuum, it was theoretically possible to resolve the situation diplomatically in a relatively short period of time, or at least to avoid war. Vayne could have tried to negotiate with all the parties, explaining why "history" needed to be reined by people, and the potential danger of the Occuria. The problem is that Vayne grew up in very harsh conditions: he was forced to kill his brothers and so on, and as a result, he developed the idea that all political problems can be solved with force, not words. The story of XII shows that it was his strength that ultimately turned out to be his vulnerability.
Vayne's story as a politician is in some ways a typical example of how in autocratic systems the psychology of the ruler significantly affects the strategy of decision-making. His psychology was rooted in a traumatic past, which brings us back to a recurring motif in the characters' stories in XII: there is some traumatic past that must be overcome and left in the past in order to move on. This motif is represented in the stories of most of the main characters. Vayne is the character who could not leave behind the old ways of solving problems, and, apparently, old traumas. Even his father succeeded in this, but not him

>>720004594
Without the Occuria to direct the world, everything was set upon a path towards decay and despair, culminating in the Ivalice we see in Vagrant Story. The grand golden age with all that magitek and other races, gone forever.

didn't he kill his dad?

>favorite FF of all time
>gets a sequel
>it's a fucking RTS on the DS

>>720003345 (OP)
Man I want to fuck Lord Vayne, I always jerk off when he transforms into his muscular form.

>>720026494
His father most likely agreed to the plan. The writers sell it as the only excuse to disband the Council. At least that's what Ultimania hints at. Regardless, that doesn't mean his father was a total fan of his problem-solving methodology.

I wish we got another actual Dissidia instead of the shitty 3v3 garbage.

>>720003345 (OP)
Vayne?

>>720019790
"very unfinished [...] in terms of writing" is unfortunately an applicable complaint for XII in general

>>720015865
>um askhually he's good because he wants everyone to have free willl
> There's nothing wrong with spreading cheeks for 'great men'
The duality of the boot licker.

>>720025367
>he would've won.
Technically, he did win. The occuria fuck off at the end of the game and leave humanity free to fuck up the world (which they do, eventually).