Thread 720007539

>/v/ was desperately hoping and begging for this to fail
>Ended up being the most successful Sonic game to date
>Sega was so proud of ST they promoted Iizuka and even gave them a bigger budget to do even better games like Shadow Generations
>To top it all off, Sega revived multiple old IPs and said it was all thanks to Frontiers
>Not even to mention the three giga updates it received that allowed for cool shit like the most fun spin dash in a 3D game or multiple playable heroes again
What else can I say except...you're welcome :)

>Not even to mention the three giga updates it received that allowed for cool shit like the most fun spin dash in a 3D game or multiple playable heroes again
Redditfags are still coping this badly about Sonic Team finishing a game that was unfinished on release?

>>720008187
You jelly that Frontiers was good?

>>720008385
Three updates and those retards couldn't figure out how to make the pinball stage replayable.

>>720008579
>Wanting to replay the worst part of the franchise
Mate?

I still have not played frontiers because I opted to get shadow generations on sale over it. I don't regret my choice at all though

>>720007539 (OP)
>Sonicfag does mental gymnastics to glaze a mediocre 6/10 open world slop game

Das right piggy, keep eating up the slop and shilling, next you'll say Superstars was good too

>>720010463
Everything I said was true tho
Still seething that Frontiers is the best selling 3D game? KEK

>>720009947
That's fair, honestly. Shadow Generations was polished as hell and easily one of the tightest 3D Sonic experiences in years. Frontiers has that raw charm and ambition, but if you weren't sold on the "open-zone" thing, then yeah, you probably made the right call. Just know that if you ever wanna see Sonic chuck a kaiju into orbit while spinning Mach 5 with anime music blaring, Frontiers is sitting there waiting for you.

>>720007539 (OP)
>20k peak
Goddamn, why do they even put money into this franchise?

>>720012473
I've been playing this on my Switch. You going to account for those numbers too?

Please just get rid of the Lost World engine. My god, it ruined too many new games.

>>720013281
I love playing it with 20fps too

>>720012473
>Doesn't include the Switch, PS4, PS5, Xbone, or Series S/X's sales
Frontiers won buddy

>>720014682
was Forces too embarrassing to put on this? lol

>>720007539 (OP)
Is it actually good? Forces was the biggest slop I've played and it turned me off despite being a Sonic fan since forever.

>>720014682
It's insane how much money they were making back in the day when games costed a few bucks to make and still selling 15 million copies at $60 which was way more in the 90s. How the fuck is this industry sustainable right now?

>>720014908
Nobody knows how much Forces sold. But it was supposedly a huge disaster for Sega, they spent a ton of money on marketing expecting it to do big numbers kek

>>720014976
It really depends on the player. I think Frontiers is decent. Running around the open world with Sonic is pretty fun but some of the levels have mediocre as fuck designs (the third island in particular)
There's a switch demo if you have that, or just emulate the switch version if you can.

Also the recent one, Shadow Generations, was very good. Basically Sonic Gens but with Shadow and his own levels.

>>720007539 (OP)
/v/ wants every game ever made to be a TORtanic.

>>720014682
No, my narrative…

>>720014976
It’s not as great as Unleashed and things take a dip with the third island, but I’d rank it better than Forces and Colors.

>>720014976
It's okay. If you can grab it under $30 or pirate the Steam version it's worth it imo

>>720011603
>more people are playing video games than ever
>surprised when games sell more as a result

WILL THE WHOOOOOOLE WOORRRRLD KNOOOOOW YOOUUURRRR NAAAAAAAME

WHEN WE DAAANCE WIIITH DEEESTIIIINYYYYYYYY-YYYYYYY

I didnt like it, asked for a refund

>>720007539 (OP)
dookie game that's only value is an easy way to learning how to mod games. wouldn't play it again otherwise

>>720007539 (OP)
Why is Sonic naked?

>>720007539 (OP)
that's cool and i'm happy for the franchise, but it's still mid and leaves a lot to be desired

>game looked utterly uninteresting, planned to skip it
>still received it as a gift
>play
>probably the first game I ever fell asleep while playing
>it's a glorified Forces test stage with glued together level design and fanfiction tier writing, hate it
>fast forward to when final update drops
>play again
>felt like god's punishment in a cartridge
>promptly return to the store
Three decent tracks. That is all that is salvageable here. Playing Generations afterwards felt so refreshing it's not even funny. How did it take half a decade to make this

>>720017516
Nice LARP, wanna try again?

>>720017516
How can a game thought up and created after Forces be a test stage for Forces?

>>720018171
wowie sis, zinger!

>>720007539 (OP)
>not normally a sonic fan
>frontiers looks very accessible
>self aware enough to know that just because i'd like it doesn't mean it's not a departure from the established formula which might upset the sonic fanbase
looking forward to the next one

well you have to realize this is basically segas one job to get right, this is their baby.

>>720018337
Nah they pretty much confirmed Frontiers is how Sonic is gonna play like for the next 10 years. Shadow Gens def proved they weren't lying either.
Hopefully Frontiers 2 fixes most of the issues

>>720014908
>>720015192
Forces is probably the biggest flop they ever made. They really NEEDED Frontiers to do well.

>>720008187
>finishing a game that was unfinished on release
This is basically industry standard. In fact you'd be lucky if a game actually got finished.
Tell me, how long did it take for them to "finish" No Man's Sky or Cyberpunk?

>>720020849
>This is basically industry standard
Not for actually good devs like Nintendo

>>720021606
Nintendo doesn't develop any of their games anymore.

>>720007539 (OP)
On release it was complete shit, the jukebox, speed and acceleration adjustments, spin dash, and final island made it ok.

>>720007539 (OP)
Sonic x Shadow Generations was 100x better and more acclaimed. Must be sad they got destroyed by a glorified DLC for a 2011 game.

IT'S TIME TO FACE YOUR FEARS

>>720007539 (OP)
But is it good?

>>720021673
So who developed Donkey Kong Bananza and Tears of the Kingdom then?

sonicfags are like indians.
they love eating shit.

>>720021807
so open up
*shaaaart*

>>720017516
>probably the first game I ever fell asleep while playing
>it's a glorified Forces test stage with glued together level design and fanfiction tier writing, hate it
>fast forward to when final update drops
>play again
>felt like god's punishment in a cartridge
You were part of the reason for the difficulty spike

>>720019563
Crazy part is they were gonna send Frontiers out to die too before Iizuka convinced them to give Frontiers more time
Sega does not give a fuck

>>720021802
NEPD, a subsidiary.

>>720007539 (OP)
The game still sucks though.

>>720007539 (OP)
it wasn't good and shadow generations was a 50 minute game.

>>720019563
>>720023234
Even with Sonic presumably being their biggest money maker, the games are made cheap so even with Forces flopping they probably didn't care much which would explain why they were willing to push Frontiers out the door before it was ready, yet again.

>>720025059
>50 minute game

This is so comedically wrong. It's 3-5 hours for the base game, and 10+ for 100%, as is the case with the OG Generations.

>>720025059
You did not play Shadow Gens why are you lying?
Even if you rush through everything on your first try you're still getting 2 and a half hours

>>720025404
>>720025525
2 hours for a full priced game is still fucking bad dude and the game takes an hour to beat.

and no, adding on an inferior version of sonic generations doesn't justify the price. I already have that shit.

>>720025754
Alright anon, off you trot. Let's see you, an average player, beat Shadow Gens in an hour. Be sure to report back.

>720025754
>"The game takes about 2-3 hours for the main story and 10 hours for completi-"
>You , a retard trying to bait people for some reason "THAT'S STILL BAD DUDE AND IT ONLY TAKES AN HOUR TO BEAT!?"
I'll never understand why they do this

Ruh roh, looks like he's exposing himself as an even bigger dumbass than we first thought!

>>720025892
>>720025936
lol, retard.
https://www.speedrun.com/shadow_generations

Sonic fans are just way too used to eating shit. They'll gladly pay $60 for an a crumb of gameplay.

>>720025989
>requests an average player to have a go, to see what a normal runtime would be like
>posts the autistic speedrun leaderboards

You can't be serious. By your logic 06 is a 10 minute game since you can glitch to the credits.

>>720026046
Stop replying to his bait anon, cmon now you know better

>>720007539 (OP)
Should I play this game?

>>720026046
You posted howtobeat, the same site that thinks sonic colors is a 5hr long game when it's an hour.

I dropped it by the desert area. Even mods couldn't fix the terrible pop-in on the platforms/rails, it's just embarassing for a AAA release.

>>720026085
Do your own research. Go watch videos or reviews or something. I can't tell you if you'll like it dislike any game

>>720014682
>3.5 million
Damn got lapped by Kirby. From being Mario’s contemporary to fighting with Astro Bot for like 5th place

>>720026141
It's about context, idiot. The series has gone from floundering in bargain bins, to selling millions again, to a billion dollar movie franchise, and now is a global phenomenon again in the span of a decade.

Sonic is the healthiest he has been since the 90s and that fact seems to REALLY piss people off for some reason. Presumably because they had hoped the 2010s would finish him off.

>>720026120
HLTB is a reflection of how long it takes an actual normal person to beat a game. A person who doesn't mindlessly barrel to the end of every stage and skip every cutscene so they can get the game over with and move onto the next dopamine hit.

>>720025525
>2-3 hours
That's around the same length of Forces, man.
>b-but it's not a FULL game like Forces
It's not, but it's also not the way it was advertised, either. Shadow Gens is alright, but it's still very short. More like a DLC addon to Generations than a full game.

>>720019563
What is this nonsense? As big of a meme it was when Sega announced this in 2018, the official stance is that Forces "performed strongly", despite being mid as fuck. Even if we don't have the sales numbers, it was the 2nd most downloaded PS Plus download behind cawadooty, which should tell you something:
https://screenrant.com/sonic-forces-most-downloaded-ps-plus-game/
It was so successful that it influenced everything that came after it, from Team Sonic Racing, to the IDW comic, to Frontiers, to Shadow Generations, to Crossworlds, etc. Regardless of the actual quality of the things I listed, if Forces flopped so hard, then why aren't they trying to memoryhole it? Doesn't check out. Also:
>biggest flop
Even if you meant more in terms of critical reception, the "biggest" flop was, and will always be, Sonic '06. It sold well, but it was a massive critical disaster that Forces can't even hope to compete with. You want an ACTUAL flop? Look at Boom. Even if it wasn't made by Sonic Team, THAT's a textbook flop right there. Sold like shit, reviewed like shit, memory holed the second the cartoon was cancelled. It flopped so hard they removed Boom Sonic from pic related, lmao. Sticks even being referenced is an anomaly. Why do you fans keep exaggerating stuff when it comes to Forces in particular? It seems like it minebroke a lot of you when it's really just yet another mid 3D Sonic game at the end of the day.

>>720026432
It's exclusively because of the movie, and I'm tired of fans pretending otherwise. Frontiers doing well certainly helped, but he movie is what made Sonic relevant again. Everything else is just weird copium.

>>720026817
I think Forces just stings especially hard for people because of the wasted potential. We finally get a game about Eggman winning, and it's just like 'meh, here's the story on a black screen with text.' And then it's over in like 2 hours, with shitty writing all the way through.

>>720014682
Holy shit, this is even more embarassing than I thought. Is it really just a case of OP not knowing per capita or is he a dishonest shill?
On a semi-related note, kudos for Shadow, I didn't know it sold that well.
>>720015074
>How the fuck is this industry sustainable right now?
It really isn't. It only seems like it's still afloat because it's kept floating with outside money. Development cost is too high for current hardware, so high no one would make that money available without serious risk management. Risk management means
>paying some yuppie to say if it will be lucrative or not, raising the production cost
>yuppie saying they need to spend in marketing, raising the production cost
>marketing saying you need to re-do this and that part of the game to appease to this and that demographic, raising the production cost
>by the time they remade it, the cost raised so much they need to bring a new group of execs, since it costs so much, raising the production cost
>those bring in their own marketing consultants, raising the production cost
It's a vicious cycle, but at least Expedition 33 (I never played it and the actual quality has no bearing on my argument) proved modern tools can allow smaller teams to make a professional-looking game today without that much bloat so let's hope it becomes a trend.

>>720026432
The franchise at its strongest propelled by a billion dollar movie franchise results in a game that despite being on every platform sold worse weaker than a 2D Kirby stuck on one platform

>>720007539 (OP)
Yet the story will keep being boring vanilla shit because sega is traumatized with the idea of fun edginess, actual stakes and character development, there will never be cinemática because the fags at sega are broke, and there will never be a new Sonic model.

>>720026123
I dropped it but forced myself to complete it months later. The game is really fucking bad.

>>720026432
>Sonic is the healthiest he has been since the 90s and that fact seems to REALLY piss people off for some reason.

Probably because the games are still more or less cheap mediocrity (Frontiers being the current high-bar say A LOT) compared to what it could've been under competent leadership and those "healthy" profits all come from the fish-out-of-water movies. It's in a similar pit Pokemon's in: detrimental success for non-slop enjoyers keeping it from ever improving.

>>720012307
I could go for open zone but pairing boost with that takes the appeal away for me.

>>720030026
Actually, Shadow Gens is the current high bar, both critically and commercially. It sold a million copies in 24 hours. 2010s Sonic games dreamed of that kind of success.

>>720007539 (OP)
>>To top it all off, Sega revived multiple old IPs and said it was all thanks to Frontiers
Which other IPs?

>>720015681
Cope

>>720014908
Build-a-furry: the game was a misadventure, prease undastanduru

>>720007539 (OP)
Game still sucks tho

>>720007539 (OP)
I love it whenever/v/ is wrong about a game, it was fun

>>720007539 (OP)
>Ended up being the most successful Sonic game to date

>>720034089
It's frankly embarrassing people still pretend Sonic is a big deal with numbers like these.

>>720007539 (OP)
Sonic was never good

>>720035741
we know ign

>>720007539 (OP)
My nephew said it was good and i trust him :)

>>720034089
>Frontiers sold 3.5 million on all modern platforms + PS4 and XBONE
>Arguably at Sonic's second peak in popularity due to the movies
>Sonic Colors sold 2.1 million on just the Wii alone
>While the Wii was in it's dying years, with no outside entertainment to boost interest
Holy shit, even the Dreamcast titles weren't just a million behind despite that flopping as well.

>>720035992
Good.

>>720034551
Sonic the CHARACTER is a huge deal, hence the success of the movies and merch and the proliferation of so much fan content. Sonic the GAME is almost a tertiary aspect of the brand at this point.

>>720027775
confused, which 2D kirby is that? can you name it?

>>720039348
Star Allies. Comparing Frontier to Forgotten Land feels unfair

>>720025901
They're subhuman shartyposters. Don't bother trying to understand how they think, if they even do so at all.

>>720041342
FUARK...

>>720036452
Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 got many rereleases, and Sonic Colors brought many new fans into the series, also:
> the Wii console sold 101 million copies
> the "dying years" of the Wii only had irrelevant games nobody bought like Zelda skyward sword and Mario galaxy 2

>>720007539 (OP)
Who cares, it sucks.
>To top it all off, Sega revived multiple old IPs
And those will suck too.

>>720041342
Sonic would be shadowboxing Mario

>>720042518
Mario Galaxy 2 sold 7 million copies dude.

>>720007539 (OP)
they hired that man

>

>>720043340
yes, it was sarcasm, the Wii didn't have any dying years at all

>>720007539 (OP)
Sonic Team needs to rethink their level design philosophy for the Open Zone.
Both Frontiers and Shadow Gens feature platforming challenges that are incredibly scripted and make you look for specific entry points to those platforming sections and then they spit you out in some other direction that you didn't plan to go through.

Instead they should turn those scripted platforming sections into open-ended platforming opportunities.
They can do that by removing the scripting and making their layouts very clear.
The exit points should also be replaced with another clear entry point so you can go through the platforming sections backwards.
A good example of my level design concept is a simple series of big floating platforms.
>It's very clear with its layout so the player can make an educated decision about it
>Can be traversed both forwards and backwards

>>720014682
Old chart.
Sega said it sold over 7 million units.

What is it that about Sonic that triggers people so fiercely?
Why do they want it to fail?

>>720047554
Nintendo adults like moviebob and Vinny Vinesauce just act that way

>>720040790
oh yeah right, one thing i noticed is that Forgotten Land is the best selling Kirby game, it's the only one that sold 7 million, seems like most gamers don't care that much about 2D games, and i honestly don't mind Kirby outselling Sonic, at least Kirby's better than Mario

>>720047196
People hated this game even thought it had floating platforms that you could climb to without that level of safe scripting. Sonic just gets a pass because it's Sonic.

i hope they learn from mario kart world.

>>720049269
The game that stole its concept from Forza Horizon but made it worse?

>>720034551
This is just for fans to compare and understand which style of sonic games Sega is going to follow in the future, back in the 2000s Sega was releasing multiple sonic games per year even with these numbers, Sonic's not a big deal like Pokemon, its a medium deal and that's fine

>>720049269
Learn what?
How to not make a kart game?

>>720047196
To be fair towards Sonic Team, in all their design genius, the original version of Frontiers didn't actually have any of these platforms. Surprising no one, play testers said the game was boring, which is part of why Iizuka insisted with his bosses to give the game more time. These GTA Online tier platforms floating in the sky are the fastest bandaid they could pull out of their ass to make the game not as empty.

>>720049269
Sonic doesn't take ideas from Mario as much as it does from Zelda. The next game will probably have some recall mechanic ala TotK.

>>720007539 (OP)
>Ended up being the most successful Sonic game to date
It sold 10 copies?

Hey, any Sonic lore autists out there.
What is considered to be "canon"? Sonic 1-3 is clearly in Frontiers, as Green Hill and Chemical Plant is there, and Angel Island is mentioned. Several stages are based on Adventure and Unleashed too. But what about the others? 06? Colours? Lost World?

>>720052156
According to the previous social media manager, everything is canon, but there is a timeline now https://sonic.sega.jp/SonicChannel/character/worldstory/index.html

God it's going to suck when the next game is more of this

>>720050271
The fact that they unironically went
>What if there was NO level design?
is insane to me.

Are sonic fans the snyderverse fags of vidja?

>>720054092
Probably thought "if Zelda can do that, why can't we?" I swear Sonic Team really wants to make other games but they keep getting forced to use Sonic. C'mon Sega, just let them have an RPG to get it out of their system.

>>720054413
Ok but Zelda's open world actually does have level design and is engaging. That's how they got away with no dungeons.

>>720054473
Agree to disagree, specially since the lack of proper dungeons is the biggest complaint both games have gotten, but in regards to Sonic they probably had a similar idea. Just sprinkle the world with those isolated challenge, equivalents to the shrines, and call it a day. But Sonic and Zelda are very different in design and Sonic Team refuses to accept that so they added the floating rails as a quick solution even though they hadn't actually thought it was necessary at first. Who would've thought the platforming series should have platforming.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Vm5Ouf0MkkQ

I can't believe the definitive 2D sonic experience got cracked more than an year ago and I didn't knew about it.

>>720054881
>Agree to disagree
Bro you have to actually be retarded to not notice how much thought was put into BotW Hyrule. It's fine if you don't like the game but come on.

>>720023852
Epd is not a subsidiary it literally says DIVISION in the name you cock gobbling retard

>>720055863
Did you know Sonic Team actually built the islands out of clay before putting them in the game? There was thought put into Frontiers as well but while the open world design worked for Zelda, a slower paced combat oriented series with a big focus on careful traversal, it didn't work for Sonic even with trying to make combat a bigger deal to offset the emptiness of the world, hence floating rails as a quick and easy solution.

>>720055863
NTA and my memory is fading since I only sunk 50 hours into BOTW in 2018 or 19, but it depends. The map of course has some fun well thought out areas, like the one where you're stuck on an island and it strips you of your current inventory until you complete the challenge, areas which of course depend on you having the right clothing and supplies for the weather, and of course there's plenty of boulders around for the player to take advantage of. But it still suffers from the regular open world issue where there are still going to be tons of areas where they just expect the player to fast travel or rush through them quickly.

>>720056776
>Did you know Sonic Team actually built the islands out of clay before putting them in the game?
Yeah.
That's fucking stupid.

You do stuff like that to talk about your game on a concept level, not to literally design the map.