Thread 720168932

Can "being too hard" make a game worse?

>>720168932 (OP)
idk, your mom never complains when my dick is too hard

>>720168932 (OP)
You just described why every Soulslop not made by From is derivative trash.

>>720168932 (OP)
Hard how? Why is it hard?

>>720168932 (OP)
No, but artificial difficulty can.
Ex:
Shitty runbacks to bosses
Artificially increasing enemy damage
Making half the enemies not drop money

>>720170634
>runbacks
Why do zoomers call it a "runback"? This is just replaying the level if you die to the boss. It's been the standard in thousands of games for several decades.

>>720170634
Define "artificial difficulty".

>>720168932 (OP)
Being "le hard game" was all people kept praising about the first one, I don't get why it's a problem now

>>720168932 (OP)
According to /v/'s favourite essayist? No
https://youtu.be/cqL_AfNxNEE?si=aPTwfySkwEGQXAxa

>>720170634
>Making half the enemies not drop money
If this game is anything like the first this is only a problem if you're somehow a dumbass who manage to actually lose your money

>>720168932 (OP)
Games can't be too hard, "fairness" isn't owed to you, get good or uninstall

>>720170908
>If this game is anything like the first
It's different. Only (formerly) civilized bugs drop money. Animalbugs just drop crafting materials.

>>720168932 (OP)
Being "too hard" is just players self reporting that they're unskilled. All it leads to is them giving up on the game, which is a further self report. You either get better or you admit you're a failure

>>720170634
>Artificially increasing enemy damage
How do you increase enemy damage artifically?
>Shitty runbacks to bosses
Nigger that's a video game mainstay going back to the 80s. Beat the boss or redo the level, it's appropriate punishment for being bad, and also gives you an opportunity to gather resources or go a different direction until you're ready.
>Making half the enemies not drop money
Non problem. It's too easy to keep your money, or keep it spent if you're too shit to get back to your cocoon.

>>720168932 (OP)
It can and it does. Most games have annoying difficulty spikes. Some game are overall so hard that it diminishes fun. Old cartridge-based console games and arcade games were hard for economic reasons.
For reference, the original 2017 hollow knight was about 10% too hard for me, plus a few bigger difficuly spikes like the Fabulous Zote and colosseum last trial.

>>720168932 (OP)
Nah. Hard games are fun. Tedious games are not fun, and many "le hard gamez" confuse tedium for difficulty. Having to take 30 seconds to run back to a boss every time isn't difficult, you get it right the first time and you'll get it right every time after that, it just adds more padding that feels repetitive and dull.

I mean if you want that kind of "difficulty" why not go wild? Respawn bosses so every time you enter a boss room you cleared you need to fight it again! So difficult! Double all the enemy health and make the character die in a single hit, very difficult! (and not just endless trial and error at all!)

Funny how every single thing all these bitches are complaining about is found in Dark Souls but that game is apparently a masterpiece.

>>720171492
That's because none of them actually enjoy those "le hard" games, they say its amazing but then copy online builds, strategies and get overleved so they can actually finish the game

>>720171492
Because it was only ever retards that called those games "hard". Souls games have only ever been "punishing" with not a lot of legitimate difficulty, the entire series is about trial and error, and while you can do better than others by having better reactions or good sense it's not a game that is particularly difficult to play.

I think Silksong has a lot of fun "too hard" and unfun "too hard" but I don't want a compromise with stakes of Marika or whatever. A challenge is defined by how much you suffered to overcome it. Cope or leave.

>>720172064
>A challenge is defined by how much you suffered to overcome it
Bet you thought that sounded clever or profound, but in reality is just exposes your retardation.

>>720172064
Overcoming a challenge in 1-2 tries is fun.
Overcoming a challenge in 50 tries is developer incompetence.

>>720170779
Games used to be costly to make, so they had to artificially make them longer by adding a "lives" system and making you go all the way back, which is tedious and unfun, but not if you're in the 90s when games still had some novelty.
This game has been in the making for 7 years and I'm pretty sure HK didn't have runbacks as bad as this game. There is no excuse in 2025 to not make you respawn at the boss's door.
>>720170825
Putting emphasis on the punishment of failure instead of making the avoidance of failure harder. Silksong actually does both of these things, which makes it even more cancerous.
Making enemies and certain pitfalls deal 2 damage for no reason, making you tediously run back to a boss fight and making you consciously farm for money are all unnecessary punishments. Making the bosses harder to dodge and having rewarding side objectives all entice the brain and require conscious effort, which makes it fun. Of course, the difficulty has to still be intuitive and not be a Touhou reflex game. DMC games are usually good at this.
>>720171148
>Non problem. It's too easy to keep your money
What does that have to do with what I said? Making killing only a few enemies rewarding takes away any motivation to participate in the combat. Now I always skip the roaches in Sinner's Road because there's no point in fighting them.
Really, I have no idea why the fleas don't give you money like in the first game, or why quests give so little money that it would just be more effective to farm citadel goons.

>>720172064
This. After beating Groal and seeing that bench appear, I felt a true sense of vidya accomplishment.

I just beat the refight quest with the savage beastfly in like 3 tries. I did just unlock the architect crest which seems OP as fuck, the charged drill has ridiculous range and damage. But with the way people were chimping out, I was expecting hell.

>>720168932 (OP)
No, good games can be either too easy or too hard. Difficulty doesn't matter

>>720172189
>DMC games are usually good at this.
DMC games are a joke.

>>720172389
That's okay. You have the right to have shit taste.
Although the game I think does it best is Exanima.

>>720172189
>had to artificially make them longer by adding a "lives" system
Factually wrong. The easiest way to make games longer on consoles was to make them a cryptic open worlds/search action or a jRPG. Good arcade games were designed with score and replayability in mind.

>>720171492
And yet Elden Ring introduced Stakes of Marika to let you respawn right next to the boss door. But I'm sure you declined that and ran back from the nearest Grace instead right?

>>720172614
>replayability
Yeah, so making them artificially longer.
Sonic levels don't change. They're not procedurally generated. Everything stays the same. It's all about finding the funny combination of jumps to get to the end as fast as possible.
Again, this was fun in the 90s when it was all you had when it came to games, and making only 1 level like that took way more time than it does today, but let's not pretend like that stimulates your mind in any way. It's time-wasting trial-and-error.

>>720172797
Every time I think I won't be able to see a dumber post on this board I get proven wrong.

>>720168932 (OP)
nope, but "being too cheap" does

>>720173014
Really? I don't think your post was that dumb.

>>720172617
>Boss runbacks were ok until Fromsoft stopped doing them, then they became "artificial difficulty"

>>720168932 (OP)
I feel like there is an entire subset of games coming out the last few years that creates a constant melty on /v/ because people here are actually terrible at videogames.

>>720173237
>Thing was bad
>Thing was fixed
>"N-nuh uh thing wasn't bad and the fix was... uhh.... uhhhhhhh.... BUT SOME PEOPLE SAID THEY LIKED GAME WITH THING SO IT MUST NOT HAVE BEEN BAD?!"
Buddy, you're retarded.

>>720171492
souls games are full of cheese. from broken weapons to overpowered spells to summons to spots you can stand where the boss can't hurt you, there's always some shit you can do to basically skip a boss that's giving you trouble. the game is designed around this so that casuals can beat it and still feel good about themselves.
silksong has none of these options. if you're getting your dick pushed in by a boss, you can't just summon a friend or use an overpowered move you've kept in your back pocket, you have to actually fight it. and that's what filters soulsfags.

>>720173498
you enjoy souls games, your by definition, retarded

>>720172189
>Games used to be costly to make
They're more expensive to make than they've ever been
>artificially make them longer by adding a "lives" system and making you go all the way back
Modern slop has no challenge because they forwent this system. Games are supposed to be a series of challenges you complete in sequence. If you fall off an obstacle course, you start at the beginning of the obstacle course because the challenge is designed with the entire thing in mind.
>Putting emphasis on the punishment of failure instead of making the avoidance of failure harder
Longwinded babyspeak that literally just says "Making the game hard instead of making it not hard"
>Making killing only a few enemies rewarding
Every enemy drops a type of resource for you to store. The maps reward you for completing their challenges with not just money, but stored money that doesn't get lost on death. If all you care about is mindlessly mashing enemies to death and having the game suck your dick and call you a good boy for doing it, that's not the game's fault.

You are a mindbroken modernslop addict who can only see games as new shiny skinnerboxes designed to wring dopamine out of you. Play the games that gives you reward instead of blaming the game for your failure to meet its challenge.

>>720174005
>They're more expensive to make than they've ever been
Stopped reading there.

>>720174084
Why do you deny the retarded amount of budget sank into so much AAA slop that's expected to become a viral hit?

>>720174156
I dont know, I play good videogames, most of which are under 40 bucks brand new.

>>720174156
Yeah, AAA games, but anyone with Unity today can make Sonic 1, you silly goon.

>>720174208
Okay then based, nothing more to be said. Fuck AAA slop.

Mega Man X6.

>>720170634
new coped dropped

>>720173532
>Y-you enjoy souls game?!
Jesus fuck you're dumb, how the fuck did you draw that utterly stupid conclusion from my post you retarded faggot?

Does anyone know where i can find Voltvyrm i tried looking at the memorium but i cant find the boss there ?

>>720174482
Alright this anon actually posted a real answer. X6 SUCKS.
Here’s a bonus: Megaman and Bass on the GBA. Game is horrible with the screen crunch which makes it way harder. S

>>720168932 (OP)
Yes, but also only kind of.
I got that ninja gaiden game on the wiiu and had fun with it until I got to some insane part with endless superniggerninjas and a helecopter or some shit, and I basically played that one fight for about an hour, gave up, came back the next day for another hour, and gave the fuck up.
Its not even like the older bullshit games like ghosts and goblins or ninja gaiden, where you eventually figure out the rhythm of the level, it was just straight un-fun bullshit that should have been a difficulty option as opposed to the only way to play this 60 dollar game.

>too hard
maybe for modern gamer sensibilities, I wouldn't say it's harder than any older action platformer game like megaman, ninja gaiden etc

>>720175081
Yeah. Honestly Mother Brain in the original Metroid 1 has been harder than every boss here so far, especially with the lag.

>>720168932 (OP)
Your movement tools are way too strong for this game to be difficult.

>>720170634
>"Artificially" increasing enemy damage

>>720170908
Enemies that value currency drop it, meaning civilized bugs and crows.
Enemies that are just mindless beasts don't drop it, because why the fuck would they carry money? Instead these guys drop shell shards, which are used automatically when resting at a bench to craft tools that Hornet can use.

>>720170779
No, you don't replay the level. Replaying the level means getting all the items and defeating enemies again, opening shortcuts etc. When you are on the 5th attempt to a boss and just want to get it over with its just a straight run through everything, avoid all enemies and traps, take the shortest fastest route. It's a runback because you "run back", not "replay back"

>>720168932 (OP)
yes, but pic unrelated

>playing hollow knight for the first time
>get near the end
>find out that you weren't even the hollow knight
>you are just some random fighting the favorite child
Damn.

>>720168932 (OP)
I'm part of the way through Act 2 right now and the only time where I felt difficulty made the game frustrating was those flying niggas who throw shit at you in the Underworks, and the lava platforming there. Everywhere else the difficulty is basically fair and you feel accomplishment after overcoming it. In the Underworks it was just tedious and when I was done I was glad it was over.

>>720168932 (OP)
If the game is hard then it better be cool to compensate
Playing as a knight = cool
Playing as a ninja = cool
Playing as a marine = cool
Playing as a slutty strong womyn bug with autistic artstyle = not cool

>>720176526
Yep. The Hollow Knight was selected as uniquely pure from any "blemishes" (like a personality) that the Radiance could latch onto and infect through.
>No mind to think
>No will to break
>No voice to cry out suffering
However, he wound up developing a flaw: The Pale King adored him too much. The Hollow Knight was treated as a beloved son by the King, and this affection served as the anchor point, the chink in his armor, that the Radiance remained attached through.

The Knight is possibly just as impure, since you can do things that have absolutely nothing to do with your objective to imprison or kill the Radiance, especially carry those delicate flowers everywhere. The White Lady mentions that you must be a fool to carry it, because that flower is anathema to the Void and can neutralize its power completely. Still, you can offer them to others to make their day better, and the Knight proves strong enough to take the Radiance down himself.

>>720171342
>hard games are fun, tedious games are not
Nobody will give you a (You) for speaking the truth around here. So shape up and either say its too hard or copy paste git gud.
Nuanced opinions are gay.

>>720168932 (OP)
Yes.
That's all that needs to be said.

>>720175623
It's always really fun to see projections in comments like yours lmao

>>720170634
>artificially increasing
every mechanic in the game is balanced around the damage enemies deal. nothing was ‘increased’ from anything, this is the baseline of the game