Thread 720231094

>Everything does 2 damage, even scenery
>Just 3 misses will kill you
>"Hmm... well, okay, I'll look for a mask upgrade to get more health"
>At 6, you can still only take 3 damage

Okay /v/, explain to me, what is the fucking point? The first upgrade is useless, and this is a metroidvania that punishes you for exploring. What kind of game design is this?

>>720231094 (OP)
The developers played Dark Souls once and thought cock and ball torture and pointless run backs were peak gameplay design elements.

>>720231094 (OP)
just get 4 more mask shards, retard

>>720231249
My surprise is how the 2 damage implies a series of problems, including hindering exploration, which is the point of metroidvania, and most of the arguments in response are "haha skill issue, get gud".

>>720231336
Can you read? I'm talking about the full upgrade, not the shard, you idiot.

>>720231094 (OP)
I swear weapon upgrades don't do shit.

>>720231418
if not having enough hp is hindering ur exploration then yea it is a skill issue. turning back and finding other upgrades before you progress is a skill too

Most things do 1 damage, not 2. Anything that does 2 damage typically has a gigantic tell and is easily avoidable. Game has infinite continues and tons of checkpoints / warp points. It also starts with a healing skill that is pretty easy to pull off and every boss has a stun phase that gives you more than enough time to do it. As the game opens up you get better defensive options, and more life.
Pay attention to boss openings, and learn from your mistakes.

>>720231094 (OP)
I don't even understand what you're upset about.
The enemies do damage? Okay??

>>720231094 (OP)
Maybe they balanced it only with those values?

>>720231653
I would love to have time to explore all the boss openings and learn from my mistakes, you know, time to not die in the first 3 hits? How cool would it be, hmm, to heal 3 health and still die in 2 hits... The same goes for the platforms, imagine how cool it would be to not die at the beginning of them and take twice as long to get past, because like... 2 damage... but yeah, what can I do, it's good that I already beat that crap.

>>720231094 (OP)
My only problem is that most of the enemes still do 2 damage when you just touch them. I understand the shit design in some 2D games to make the enemies just a fucking hitbox but why 2 for just touching them?

>>720232592
The more you think about it, the more shitty everything becomes. I hate recovering 3 health and dying with 2 damage, it's almost comical.

>>720231094 (OP)
You're a few days late dude. Trajectory is hating the game in the beginning then realizing it's kino further in.

>>720232783
As long as there's a healthbar you can't complain. There is literally not a single OHKO is this entire game. If you die, it's because you fucked up multiple times in short succession, which means you've only got yourself to blame.

>>720231653
>Game has infinite continues and tons of checkpoints / warp points.
Sinner's and Bilewater say hi.
Also it doesn't matter how safe healing is if you don't have enough silk to actually use it. And a boss isn't stunned long enough for you to fill your entire gauge.

>>720231094 (OP)
You dumb consoleniggrs. If you were PC gods you'd be able to mod the bullshit out. But since you're bootlicking corporate loyalists worshiping plastic boxes, you get what you deserve.

>Judge does 2 damage because you can use the Magma Bell to reduce fire damage to 1
>But let's just make every single hit do 2 damage instead of JUST the fire damage
Fucking hacks.

>>720231094 (OP)
Loved HK but I honestly just find SS annoying. Even the singing of the map vendor is annoying and the areas don't even look cool

>>720233092
I prefer playing on my TV. But I won't give them another sale just to be able to mod the game.

>>720231094 (OP)
>>Everything does 2 damage, even scenery
doubt

>>720233092
>bootlicking corporate loyalists
I bet you own a nividia card, use Windows and have lgbt lights on your keyboard, mouse and pc. Look in the mirror

>>720233156
Agreed. The areas and their music don't hit as much as it did in Hollow Knight. And they spammed way too many deepnest dark zones.

>>720232901
As I said above, the fight has just started, and you can only miss 3 times. This is just stupid; healing doesn't help much because, in practice, it only gets you hit twice more. How am I supposed to learn to fight a boss if I die so quickly? It doesn't make any sense.

>>720233107
Use webweaver and the poison pouch with the flea juice. Magma ball is worthless. Only hit her during her jumps, just dodge everything else. Happy to help.

>>720233314
Could just be you got older

>>720233254
>AMD
>Linux
>Plain Jane Case
Try again, Faggatron

>>720233092
What the fuck are you talking about? I don't even have a console. Is everyone on /v/ this retarded? Wow.

>>720233107
The damage reduction on magma bell is on a cooldown. Even then you have magnetite dice

>>720231094 (OP)
This is the consequene of taking fromsoft cultists seriously about the whole GIT GUD meme, because the people that spout that meme don't actually play difficult games and they only play fromsoft games which are absolutely bitch-baby mode games to begin with. So devs spend time chasing the trend of MUH DIFFICULTY and for them "difficulty" means "fuck the player, fuck them all and may they burn in hell and never have fun".

>one troll drop
>hurrrrrr this game punishes u for exploring
when did people become such whiny fucking bitches ey

>>720231653
>Game has infinite continues
Except for the official difficulty setting (with achievements and extra content) where you don't get continues.

>>720233028
You know how the game doesn't lie about how much health you have, it gives you time to learn how the boss and the environment work, and it gives you room to think about when it's best to heal? That's right.

Defending Silksong has become pure copium.

>>720233314
False, the music to a bunch of the areas are layered with the games core theme

>>720233107
Wow man, you're really smart, now tell me, how are you going to use the magma bell on bosses and scenarios that don't have fire? YOU DUMB.

>>720233696
Or I could just mod in infinite health and be done with it.

>>720233909
You can say that about any game...

>>720234079
In the end it really doesn't matter. I tried so hard and got so far.

>>720233694
By then you know all the patterns THOUGH

Indie games just got Dark Souls 2, how crazy. I hope that just as Dark Souls 2 divided many people, Silksong does the same, because this crap being universally loved is insane.

>>720231094 (OP)
>what is the fucking point?
you have a 3 mask heal.
plus, pair it with the skull charm and you get an extra mask

>>720233365
>the fight has just started, and you can only miss 3 times
NTA, but it sounds like you've never played Cuphead. You can only get hit 3 times in that game. Silksong is of a similar level of difficulty, and yet while /v/ praises the former, the latter is reviled by shitters who can't admit that it's a skill issue.
>>720233365
>How am I supposed to learn to fight a boss if I die so quickly?
You run back and try again.

>>720234607
>2 damage
>3 healing masks

Do the math.

>>720234578
Did Dark Souls 2 have long runbacks? What I remember is shit like the Mirror Knight or King Vendrick (?) where the bonfire and the boss door were at opposite ends of big hallways filled with enemies. Which was fucking lazy and just encouraged running past everything.

>>720234659
>It seems like you've never played Cuphead.
I have, but we're not talking about Cuphead, are we? I thought Metroidvania was fundamentally different, but okay.

>You run back and try again.
Talking about Last Judge and Groal? I remember the path more than the boss, that's just stupid.

>>720234743
Always 1 mask ahead, what's the problem

>>720233854
you're autistic.

>>720234578
Is pogoing in silksong the same as pogoing in TEVI? What game actually did it first?

>>720235490
Ducktales

>>720235220
>recover 3
>lose 4 with two hits

Bro...

>>720235769
sounds like a you problem

>>720235729
Plausible.
Ducktales is to silksong what Ocarina of Time is to Dark Souls.

>>720232230
You could probably be a lot better if you channeled your seething passive aggression into not being a bitch

>>720235886
It sounds unfair to me, it's like in Hollow Knight I could only heal 1 after taking 2. Dude, the math doesn't add up, the player is at a complete disadvantage the whole time.

>>720235025
>but we're not talking about Cuphead, are we?
I'm using it as a point of comparison purely with regard to boss fights. Cuphead was considered absurdly difficult upon release by journos and casuals and was hit with a similar wave of criticism, but the people who stuck around long enough to actually learn the game and beat it ended up loving it. The same is going to happen to Silksong. Shitty time-wasting design like long runbacks aside, Silksong's bosses are difficult but fair, and I think the game has been relatively well-balanced so far.
>>720235769
I think he's saying that binding lets you tank 2 double-damage hits (if you have an even number of masks).

>>720232230
demon souls came out 30 years ago and retards like u still dont understand how to observe a boss to get an idea of its move set

>>720236441
That's just means Demon Souls is 15 years older than the average /v/ poster

>punishing you for exploring
>niggers are loving it
Dark Souls tards made everything about le bosses. Metroidvania whole point is exploring. You might as well rush in and beat the bosses without exploring since it wouldn't give you any benefits

>>720234578
why do skongers keep trying to ride the coattails of ds2? its really pathetic

>>720236907
You would be still be seething about dying to acid/magma in Metroid threads if this was a pre dark souls era

>>720231094 (OP)
>Okay /v/, explain to me, what is the fucking point?
the point is for you to use mods and balance this garbage by yourself.

>>720236341
>I'm using it as a point of comparison purely with regard to boss fights.
I don't think the comparison with Cuphead is fair because, even though I've already finished Silksong, I honestly find Cuphead easier. What I said about them being fundamentally different games is because Cuphead is a platformer divided into levels and not a metroidvania; you instantly return to the fight, all damage you deal is ranged, etc. I understand the journalists' point, but I don't think the rest is fair; they're very different games.

>I think he's saying that binding lets you tank 2 double-damage hits
My whole point about the masks is that all of this is unnecessary math. In the middle of combat, you don't just think about when it's good to recover the damage you lost; you also have to consider whether it's worth recovering those three when you have three out of a total of five, since taking another one heals you more. However, healing with one health only guarantees you'll get hit twice, and so on. Man, it's just schizophrenic when you stop and think about it.

>>720236441
>>720236865
I know you guys are trying to make me feel old, but it was released in 2009, not 1995.
I'm in my mid 30s and having no issues with the difficulty in this game, it's challenging but fair. Boss fights sometimes beat me several times, but that just makes beating them feel more satisfying. If some thing's kicking your butt, either buckle down and get better, change your load out a bit, or go explore for more power ups.

>>720231249
All that shit didn't start becoming a thing until DS2 onwards when marketers took over and decided meme difficutly = good game design

>>720237583
>you instantly return to the fight
not completely true, you still loose progression, whether it be the run and gun stages or phases in the boss fights

>>720231094 (OP)
>>720231249
>WAAAHH WAAAHHH WAAAAAAAHHH IM SHIT AT GAMES AND CANT HANDLE A CHALLENGE WAHH WAHHH I NEED AN EASY MODE WAHH WAAAAAH WHY DO I NEED TO LEARN FIGHTS
holy fuck you faggots are annoying, im tired of seeing these bitch ass redditor threads.
go play a button mash = kill everything game like assassin's creed or goy of war ffs.

I have found one single goddamn mask shard so far and I just got the wall jump goddamn why is this shit being so stingy

/v/ really is casual central huh

>>720236441
>a 3D souls-like with completely different mechanics

>>720237890
They become much more common in act 2. I found enough for one extra HP before act 2.

>>720233590
what does difficulty mean to you, oh elite gamer?
do you think battletoads and megaman are soulslikes too?

>>720237839
all the /v/eddit demographic play are gacha games that play themselves

>>720237839
I literally 100%ed Hollow Knight and beat Silksong. Look, "hard-game-fan", I can still call the game hard, you idiot.

>>720237950
I had enough for 2 full masks before citadel

>>720231094 (OP)
||Test||

>>720237958
Battletoads was a joke it was so easy and MEGACHUD was piss easy too.
No video game is hard, at least for me. Maybe my brain is just more advanced than monkeys like you.

>>720238028
there is a difference between accepting that a game is hard and challenging and making fun of retards bitching at any difficulty they encounter on the way

>>720238180
Am I asking the game to change? Can you read? I've accepted that the game is hard, what I'm doing here is questioning the game design decisions behind it.

>>720231094 (OP)
So which streamer told you this shit?

>>720238113
Chink hands typed this post

>>720236223
Yeah, you never played HK. Not surprising, you lot pull some astounding shit out of your ass to cover for being shit at a video game.

>>720237583
>they're very different games
That's why I specified "purely with regard to boss fights". I know it's a superficial comparison, but that's not the point. The relative difficulty of both games and their critical reception is.
>all of this is unnecessary math
I don't see the issue with the game forcing you to make split-second decisions in combat. The frenetic scramble upon being reduced to 1/2 masks, where you have to look for opportunities to attack to accumulate silk to eventually heal, is what makes the game's bosses so intense and exhilarating to fight. Binding prematurely is almost always the right choice to make anyway, since you can easily make up for the silk consumed by just attacking the boss more boldly now that you can tank an extra hit.

I always chock up my history of having played through the classic Megaman games as to why I'm decent at 2D sidescroller games. There's mechanical skill, for sure, but learning to identify attack patterns and navigate through them is even more important.

I remember hearing someone say back during Elden Ring's launch that Japanese players don't even attack bosses for the first few minutes of a fight. They stay back and learn the boss patterns, then go on the offensive once they have the boss figured out.

>>720231094 (OP)
All these complaints about difficulty are funny to me because I’ve had an easier time with this than I did the original. I’m at the final boss and only been stuck on a few bosses/monster gauntlets for about an hour each time. Maybe the postgame will kick my ass.

>>720231576
The last one is huge, I think they're backloaded

>>720239671
I don't understand what drives these posters. It was the same in the Shinobi/Ragebound thread. So many incredulous posts from people who didn't play one or both of the games with factoids they pulled out of their ass

>>720239671
I literally 100%ed Hollow Knight, more than once.

>>720240117
You didn't. You don't even know that the game doesn't stop at 100%.

>>720231094 (OP)
SS is designed as an extended challenge/boss gauntlet which contrasts with the first games more laid-back exploration with occasionally hard bosses. People getting filtered clearly never played the post-release content and saw which direction the devs were clearly heading in

>>720231094 (OP)
Yeah. I love the game, but it feels very punishing if you don't go looking for the mask shards. Comparing those to Metroid Energy tanks, it's way less rewarding for all the challenges you go through.

Games still fun though.

>>720239859
I find the fights in the first game much more intense even though they deal less damage. I have full control over how much I want to heal, and it's much easier to choose when to use magic versus when to heal. Playing Hornet feels like playing with considerable limitations that aren't justified.

>>720240181
I stopped at 100% because I'm not a fan of the rest of the content, especially the Pantheon. That content is the main reason idiots think Hollow Knight is super challenging; in reality, it's a metroidvania that anyone can play.

>>720234578
>changes pogoing
if you think this is true you didn't play the game

>>720231094 (OP)
What I don't get is why enemies and bosses have double or triple digit HP values, and why Hornets weapons do double digit damage, when Hornet takes damage in single digit increments.
Like why am I doing ~ 20 dmg per nail strike to a boss, with a vague numerical hp value in the triple digits, why does their health not work like Hornets does? It genuinely feels like they aren't from the same game as Hornet, its really weird.

>>720231094 (OP)
Nobody would be complaining about this if you had 3 masks but they disappeared in halves.

>>720240943
>why does their health not work like Hornets does?
hornets health is also a numerical value and bosses also deal numerical values of damage. that number being represented as masks is purely visual

i wish they just added an easy mode so casuals could stop complaining

>>720240962
well yeah, it feels better.
It also means getting a new mask via an upgrade give you 2 extra hits, not just 1

>>720241250
Hornets health is represented by single digit values as far as I'm aware, can you post something supporting it being similar in the backend?

>>720231249
Souls isn't hard. You're shit at gaming.

>>720241406
like the game is not even that hard if you're remotely good at videogames and don't have attention deficit lol

>>720241406
Casuals never stop complaining, it's their default mode of communication. They only care about social media validation and are complaining to save face because the FOMO bandwagon game filtered them.

>>720231094 (OP)
Assuming you manage to pull off one heal you can take 5 hits instead of 4.

so is there a point fractured mask stop being crazy good or

>>720231094 (OP)
yeah 5 health seems completely pointless since everything does 2 damage and you heal 3
the masks feel completely cosmetic and have no purpose at all

>>720240943
Same reason bosses in Contra take lots of damage but you die in one hit. The masks are "lives".

Going to power through Act 3 before the inevitable cogfly and poison nerf because FUCK the new ambush rooms and FUCK getting JFK'd by a Voidnigger hanging around offscreen.

>>720231094 (OP)
Just like Sekiro, garbage

>>720240943
The game is surprisingly well balanced the further you get. What you're really hunting for over the course of the game is options. If you have to throw yourself at a boss/area, you're probably not ready to be there.

At all times you have multiple places to explore/revisit if one is stonewalling you. Those will help you find a way forward even if its not a direct path to your goal.

The game is training you to survive through all this running around and eventually, it can be modified into something you enjoy through native abilities/items. Feel like enemies are tanky? go find a new tool/upgrade and experiment. Some even directly increase nail damage.

Know that for every complaint there is a solution in the game available. That's just my experience and I'm looking forward to a 2nd playthrough with all the knowledge.

>>720241654
Around the time that multibinder+warding bell becomes more effective than a one-time get out of jail free card for bosses.

>>720234578
dark souls 2 is the easiest from game, nobody complained about long runbacks because the bosses were a fucking joke

>>720237680
The first game was called 'prepare to die edition' on PC.

>>720231094 (OP)
>>Just 3 misses
YWNBJ, kill yourself

>Play through the first game getting hard carried by health/defense boosting charm combos that you googled
>Second game doesn't have these so you have no choice but to git gud
Big wonder people are bitching about the game. What's funny is that it's actually much easier than the first one because of how many more mobility options and weaponry Hornet has, but if your only strategy is to run into enemies and try to slash them to death while tanking hits like you could get away with in the original, you get your ass beat.

>>720241460
it's easier to balance health and damage when the numbers are in the double or triple digits because there's more room for nuanced increases. if your attack did 1 damage at the start of the game and bosses had 30 health, there would be so little room for upgrades or more powerful spells or abilities early on, as doing 2 or 3 damage per swing against that 30 health is such a drastic improvement over the baseline, compared to doing 20 damage against 600 health, with upgrades or abilities adding 5 or 10 damage

>>720239937
It's chalk up. Like you're adding points on a chalkboard.

>>720242052
>because of how many more mobility options and weaponry Hornet has

...that YOU googled.

Strength progression in original HK makes way more sense than in this game.

>>720234578
But DS1 was harder than DS2

>>720241913
Blue Smelter Demon runback was pure cancer.
inb4 it doesn't count because it's dlc

>>720242196
>...that YOU googled.
The game just gives them to you, there's nothing to Google. Try using your brain before posting, or preferably don't post at all.

>>720241914
Because journos overstated the difficult parts of the game. DS1/DeS are easy games mechanically; the 'difficulty' was conflated with the intended design of not holding the players hands and not providing quest markers like skyrim

I'll never understand why /v/ ignores any criticism of a game's difficulty. I genuinely wonder when it's bad. They treat devs like gods who know what they're doing, as if bad decisions don't exist, or as if different people can only experience difficulty when you do.

>>720242607
because I'm not struggling and having fun

>>720233856
If the boss doesn't have some kind of mechanic where you can use a charm to reduce it's damage by 1, it doesn't need to do 2 damage.

>>720242607

People are desperate for gamercred. Something about Dark Souls just broke some people. I remember how back in the day people were defending blight town dps drops as intentional genius design. I've seen similar dev simping for the Graul runback.

>>720233696
God I wish Silksong was as good as Hollow Knight. Biggest complaint about that game is that Deepnest didn't have a boss.

people just want to rush through videogames without giving it a thought. the second they get a challenging game without cheese strats like elden ring they crumble. you have been pampered too much

>>720234578
>genre defining
This is what hollowtroons actually believe

>>720234578
>Tons of gank rooms
>Change things they don't need to change (Charms into Tools on Crest slots)
>Severely limited healing
>Zones are way too long just to pad out the game
Yeah it fits.

WHO THE FUCK DECIDED THAT THERE NEEDED TO BE A SECOND CROW GANK FIGHT WITH A BOSS AT THE END

there's a ton of shit that only does 1 damage, the people whining are fucking retards blowing things way out of proportion

>>720243234
I loved Hollow Knight and Elden Ring. Silksong is tedious and not fun.

>>720242607
They just look for any opportunity to flex that they beat the game. Discussion will be tolerable when the next soulslike or whatever comes out and these types leave.

>>720243753
>Grab attack
>Undodgeable damage after
1+1 still equals 2.

>>720231094 (OP)
one that filters

>>720243753
>there's a ton of shit that only does 1 damage
Case in point lmao. You didn't even beat the game yet you need to flex that game isn't hard

>>720231418
Be careful while you explore, and treat each defeat as data and not something to throw a tantrum about. If you're old enough to post here you're old enough to do this

>>720243669
>Severely limited healing
>DS2
uh what?

I will always love this game and Team Cherry for exposing every shazamfaggot as a shitter who can't beat a children's game. Go finish SMB3 and DKC then build your way up to Godsong lmao.

>bad game design is when I lose at the game ever

This place is somehow worse than Resetera

>>720243753
Yeah, you know what? Bosses, scenery, and enemies deal 2 damage. For some reason, whenever they mention enemies that deal 1 damage, they forget this other detail, lol.

For the thousandth time, what reason do I have to explore a metroidvania that brutally punishes me for exploring? Normal enemies and scenery deal 2 damage. This game is terrible.

2 damage is just a symptom of much worse game design decisions. Stop focusing on "noobs saying it's hard" and focus on how senseless these decisions make.

>>720244523
Bad game design is the part where the act 3 final boss has an arena with a fucked up camera that drags the screen across every time you change direction, how am I supposed to keep track of a teleporting black midget on a black background, with black projectiles everywhere when the camera keeps yanking it off screen.

>>720242607
There's criticism and then there's schizo samefagging the thread when your opinion has already been heard like OP

>>720244785
why do you think you shouldn't be punished for failing the skill test of jumping on a platform?

>>720231094 (OP)
Ya'll are sounding pretty gatekeep-y in this thread. Mods, be on the lookout for any RW dogwhistles. Do better.

>>720244921
>in this thread
the soulsfags are in every single one

I'm in the Citadel, just got the harpoon, the game's challenging but not ball bustingly hard yet, I'm also using the Hunter Crest because that's the canon hornet crest. Is the game gonna get much harder soon?

>>720244876
Did I say it shouldn't be punished? My question is, why is it 2 damage and not 1? There's no incentive to explore, especially when the reward is facing hordes of enemies in a closed room in exchange for 1 rosary... lol, what kind of garbage is this game?

>>720245639
>what reason do I have to explore a metroidvania that brutally punishes me for exploring?
how does silksong punish you for exploring? does going down a certain route permanently reduce rosary drops from enemies? does it buff enemy health or damage if you go down that hidden pathway? failing on a platforming section or getting hit by an enemy on the path isn't punishing you for exploring, that's punishing you for fucking up

>>720244858
The same thing happens in this boss fight, only with white colors. The ground is white, the enemy is white, her attacks are white, MAN, how can art direction do this? This game is insanely worse than the first in every way, and they're still defending it.

>>720241817
>just like Sekiro
So it's kino?

>>720244785
Gris is a beautiful game that rewards exploration by having no gameplay in it that might punish the player. Give it a try, honestly it's a blast!

>>720245778
If I gain nothing from exploring other than taking 2 damage to everything and gaining NOTHING useful after hordes in small rooms, then I'm being punished for exploring. Bizarrely, this always happens in routes that aren't mandatory to beat the game; in this case, the metroidvania element is completely ignorable.

>>720246217
hey bro.
just download a cheat to turn off damage.
the exploration is meant to be a challenge for those who enjoy it, with rewards that aren't too bad to miss so folks like you who don't enjoy it can skip it.
you're expecting a reward for pushing through an unfun chunk of game, when in reality the reward is the challenge given by a new encounter.
i was super mad doing the farfield skull lava zone, because it felt real harsh, until i snapped out of it, swapped out some loadout for things that would actually help (fire resist bell, wall grip booster, boomerang), and then i had great fun BARELY getting through the fight and jumping gauntlet, even if the reward was a few rosaries, i still really enjoyed finishing it.

i dont think you're wrong, but i do think you're playing the game with the wrong mindset to enjoy it.

>>720245907
When will you guys realize that these people 'defending' bad game design choices aren't defending them because they think it's good, but because they gatekeep people lmao. If they don't actually reply to what you're saying with anything meaningful but can instead can be boiled down to 'git gud', move on. They can't be convinced and have probably won the argument in their head already anyway

>>720246217
You gain something you didn't have before More skill and rosaries + knowledge. Unironically this is the best reward the game gives you and it has compounding returns as the game goes on.

Silksong isn't meant to be a loot game or grinding game. Its a sequel in the same universe as hollow knight and people need to move on and adjust or drop the game. The exploration is the reward.

>>720246756
If the game was easy enough for you, you'd just shit on it for being easy the same way /v/aggots do with other GOAT games like Chrono Trigger and SotN. It's not about difficulty, it's the fact that if you think Silksong is hard you're exposing yourself as not playing video games.

>>720231094 (OP)
>>Everything does 2 damage, even scenery
2?

try 3

when you do that top left jumping shit or cog shit, 1 mask for hitting spikes, and then staright into another 2 from floor spikes

>>720246716
I liked your answer, but I can't agree. I don't see how a Metroidvania could follow such a path. To me, it doesn't make sense that following a linear route is the best choice for having any fun in a Metroidvania. In Silksong, many paths lead to dead ends and fights with poor rewards; it's something I genuinely don't understand a Metroidvania doing. But who knows? Maybe I'm seeing things wrong, but I don't intend to play it again.

>>720233365
The design is wonky. The bosses are ultra-quick fights, but you don't respawn in the exact same room for you to immediately fight again. That takes 10, TEN precious seconds of walking. Unlike the standard for this in meatboy or megaman. A life mechanic would fix the game.

>>720231094 (OP)
its soul slop without the invulnerability frames to make it accessible to browns and blacks

>>720231094 (OP)
>play mario game
>literally die in 1 hit, 2 hits if I get a special item that is lost on hit

What game design is this?

>>720248510
mario came out 50 years ago grampa
since their new nintodler games are pretty forgiving

>>720248025
The fights are fun. If you think the rewards are bad, and the gameplay to get them isn't fun, then don't do them. Better yet, play a different game.

>>720231094 (OP)
Said this before but I'll say it again
The main issue with the 1 mask - 2 mask damage system is that it makes calculating risk vs reward extremely random.
Unless you memorize every single source of damage in the game and apply it on the fly, you have no way of knowing if you can actually survive the next hit or not when you are down to 2 masks.
There is no reason they couldn't have just given you 3 masks and made everything do 1 mask damage. It would be much more honest game design while still retaining high difficulty.
It would have also made health upgrades more meaningful, and they could have easily designed around that as well (make upgrades require more shards or spread them out more)

>>720248510
More like
>Play Mario game
>Some enemies only remove your powerup
>Some enemies outright kill you even with a powerup
Good luck! ;)

>>720233856
CBT Core can suck a fat cog.

>>720231094 (OP)
>shitsong

>>720246059
I enjoy both Gris and Silksong :)

>>720249339
You should always just be assuming that everything does 2 damage.

>>720249728
Gay trannoid game design

/v/ never recovered from 7th gen casualization and Silksong proves it.

>people complain about difficulty in the game
>still at least 6.6% have completed the basic ending of the game

Statistics suggests it's not that difficult.

>>720231094 (OP)
Kek normies get filtered and act as if this mid as fuck game is hard.
Similiar to dark souls.

I got spoiled with Last Faith where you only take damage from attacks, the contact damage in HK is brutal.

>>720233028
>And a boss isn't stunned long enough for you to fill your entire gauge.
Just use Wanderer crest bro. You can facetank everything because you attack so fast that you fill up your silk enough to heal before bosses can kill you. Don't worry about fliers btw just trust me.

>>720245327
>I'm also using the Hunter Crest because that's the canon hornet crest
Someone hasn't talked to Eva

>>720246716
>Just mod the game in order to ignore shit design
LMAO

>>720242387
there didn't need to be quest fucking markers causes you either go up down left right

>>720231094 (OP)
Not everything does 2 damage, thats just lie.

>>720242607
its like when you go sekiro is faggot gay shit and someone comes in like why don't you wanna counter for 60hours and enjoy no other way of playing a game

>>720242607
>the devs who made the game for 8 years
>vs
>you who played for 3 hours
You have no right to complain. Bitch boy.

>>720254414
>/v/ mindbroken by a 20 dollar indie game

>>720254648
In that logic, every Triple A is good for the development time, you idiot.

>>720231094 (OP)
I noticed no problems from this.

>>720242607
I experienced an amount of difficulty I'd describe as satisfying and fun, so hearing people complain about things that do 2 hearts of damage is ridiculous to me.
And, hence, the ridicule.

>>720255583
in fact, thinking further, I quite liked how hornet gave context to the knight and vice versa.
I appreciate how much of a brittle agilityfag hornet is, especially because I get better movement options than the knight almost immediately.

>>720234578
I never played ds2. What did they change about rolling?

>>720231094 (OP)
it's not that difficult. this seems like sekiro all over again where a challenging but still pretty forgiving game gets people riled up over the difficulty whether it's positive or negative.

>>720234578
genre defining game
so we're just pretending demon souls is not real

>>720231094 (OP)
I actually thought the fact that you can heal yourself and replenish silk just by attacking any kind of enemy is very forgiving and allows you to continue to explore endlessly. In other metroidvanias I ran out of health potions of HP and need to find a rest place or die, that doesn't happen here because I can replenish all the health I want without wasting anything and there are easy enemies everywhere.

>>720231653
>Anything that does 2 damage typically has a gigantic tell and is easily avoidable
Except for touch damage or some stage hazards

>>720234578
>Hollow Knight
>Genre defining game

>>720256017
By default it has fuck all i-frames and you need to level a stat for it to gain some (the game never tells you this)

>>720231249
Even dark souls lets you teleport between bonfires

>>720237923
how the fuck is
>observe a boss to get an idea of its move set
not fucking applicable to this game anon?
you don't rush into what is clearly an arena and think you can stand a pixel away from a hitbox and mash "attack", right anon?

>>720233197
I bought this on PC and I play on TV. If you don't know how this is possible, you're an idiot.

>>720239969
Ironically, Hornet's divekick is stronger and easier to use than HK's pogo and allows for more fun, aggressive play, which only gets faster and more fun as you go on, but they're so bad they don't get it.

>>720256257
Also feels like she fills up faster, could only be because of attack speed but it feels more generous either way.

>>720237680
DS2 was probably their first From game considering all the memory shit and "King's Door" or whatever in HK. Tragic, in a sense

did they cuck out yet and nerf any of the game? hope not

>>720231094 (OP)
Upgrades being useless is kind of HK's whole thing. You're not supposed to ever feel like you have more options or are becoming stronger, it would take away from the bleakness of the setting.

>Crests are supposed to change your moveset to suit different gameplay styles
>Reapers Crest is a straight upgrade of Hunters Crest
huh

>>720258490

Architect is also just a strict upgrade of Hunter, it's quite silly.

In fact Architect is just an upgrade period, the tools are all better than the Silk skills.

When you retry a boss you get your full silk back so now you have a free heal. That means you have now 9 masks to burn, therefore you can take one more hit.
Healing is essentially free in this game, this made the entire game way easier than certain parts of the original game to me.

>>720258442
>You're not supposed to ever feel like you have more options or are becoming stronger, it would take away from the bleakness of the setting
I think this part of why hollow knight games are fundamentally less fun than metroid or castlevania, outside of the boss fights

>>720255257
>3 guy dev teams (prob 1 for balance)
>vs
>1000 ranjeet dev team
There is basically no difference right you fucking drooler?

>>720258914
Depends on the person playing. Some people want a challenge, and some people like you just want a godmode simulator framed as a "challenge".

>>720231483
4 shards make another full upgrade dumbass

>get hit by enemy take 2 damage and get thrown into cogs for 2 more damage for a total of 4 because fuck you
lol this fucking game

>>720231418
Yeah, this is my biggest complain só far. It's not unfair, just un-fun.

>>720231418
Stop thinking of this as a castlevania game where you can run into new areas and face tank everything because there's dozens of save points and even if there aren't you're loaded up with potions you can pop at any moment to make yourself safe again. This world is dangerous, that's the whole point. The game teaches you that very early when Shakra tells you not to fuck with the bird area if you're finding things difficult.

Bros I'm in act 2... should I go to sinners and bilewater right now or do that later? I'm not sure if I should do that before act 3

It finally happened bros. After days of calling everyone scrubs for finding the game too hard, I died twice and lost all my rosaries. It's fucking over for me.

>>720259871
go to the slab and get raped

>>720259227
Yes, and you need 2 mask upgrades to be able to take 1 more hit, that's my whole point.

I don’t understand the complainers at all, we’ve had more than a decade of difficult souls games and there’s nothing in Silksong that is harder than any of those games. Is the problem that it’s a 2D game or is the audience mostly children or what? I don’t get it. You know you get more healing when you hit the enemies, right? Fuck you all for getting the game nerfed though.

>>720259792
What's the point of creating areas that have nothing in them in a metroidvania? Please explain to a brainless person like me what the hell is the point of fighting hordes in a closed area to get a rosary.

>>720259201
but the bosses and platforming challenges should be the main thing that scales to your abilities. the "difficulty" shouldn't come from stupid shit like
>oh, I need to pay for save points and maps
>oh, the map doesn't update itself
>oh, I'm getting tired of playing the game because the music is fucking boring compared to any metroid or castlevania game

>>720260203
>You know you get more healing when you hit the enemies, right?
3 HP heal means nothing when all bosses do 2 damage and you need to completely refill the gauge in order to heal again. In Hollow Knight you hit the boss like 3 times and you can heal again, and if the boss hits you it's only 1 damage anyway and you can still take 4 more hits.

>>720260367
It's called SOUL

>>720258490
Reaper is slower and Hunter gets an upgrade that gives you a combo = more damage buff. Wanderer is the good shit though.

>>720260503
Wanderer is stubby as fuck. My main reason for using Reaper is the range.

>>720260203
The only difference between DarkSydePhil and the average "person" on this toilet of a board is anonymity.

>>720260549
Use the range extender charm

>>720260573
DSP beat Sword Saint Isshin in three tries. He mogs /v/

>Nail upgrade requires getting an item from the courier and bringing it back to the butler without taking too much damage
>and with a time limit on top of that
>it's literally the Delicate Flower bullshit again, but worse
Team Cherry can go shove a fucking cactus up their asses.

How the fuck do I clear frog nig. I can do the runup to him but Jesus Christ someone said stay in the water.

What kind of strategy is join the aids havers

>>720259895
I'll pray for you Pilgrim.

>>720231249
meme series

I know this is a hate thread but does anyone know to to reach the area I marked in silver all the way down left in the blasted steps?
I have unlocked the double jump and harpoon and have given it multiple attempts but I cant quite reach up to the platform
Is there an alternative way to reach it and/or a tool I'm missing?

>>720244785
>what reason do I have to explore a metroidvania that brutally punishes me for exploring?
If you like endless exploring with no combat and no loosing play a fucking walking simulator.
The game is hard because it's about getting better.

>>720261505
that's doesn't answer that anon at all, interesting

>>720261645
>WHY IS THIS GAME HARD??
>Because it wants you to get better
>BUT WHY IS THIS GAME HARD?????
It's time to play easier games, there's no shame in being bad at video games.

>>720260983
Is there a neat shortcut or something? Don't think I can do that otherwise.

this game has been busting my balls, I'm schizoing trying to explore everything before finishing act 2, and i want to get the second needle upgrade before beating the boss of act 2.

>>720261645
It does. He asks "what reason do I have to explore a metroidvania that punishes me for exploring?" and the answer is that it's not exploration for exploration sake, it's about the challenge.
If he, and only if, wants pure exploration, he should play a walkibng sim, as I said.
Your reading comprehension is lacking, clearly.

it's funny to me that this game is breaking people because it genuinely requires your attention and you can't rush or facetank everything like a tard
>BOSSES ARE HARD!
their damage output is harsh but they have clear patterns and from what i've played no more than what, 3 or 5 attacks? lol. use your fucking eyes

>>720261856
Embarrassing

>>720261820
I'd argue that making exploration hard ruins the enjoyement of it. It's not fun dying when exploring. It's not hard, it's annoying and a waste of time.

>>720262016
Challenge is where the fun is made. Specifically, overcoming it.

>filtered by SS
imagine the majority of /v/ trying the average baby rudin proof

>>720262078
Yeah, but I didn't expect this ball busting difficulty. i expected the challenge to lie at end game, not throughout. This is just a personal preference. I'm not saying hard exploration is wrong.

Have tried getting good?

>>720261856
reminds me of blue prince where you need to mod 3x movespeed to make it goty

>>720261413
In act 3 there's an upgrade that will make you go really high vertically. I hate this game btw.

>>720260045
And? What’s so bad about that.

>>720261645
Every question about Silksong is like this, they always find a way to change the subject to a "git gud" with fancy words. I already understand that this is the new Dark Souls, every question will boil down to this and you can't question/criticize anything.

>>720262016
The thing you need to understand is that hollow knight is not about exploration alone, it's an entire and very complex package of exploration, combat, narrative, and much more. People who want combat alone might also say that the tedium of the exploration between maps ruins the combat for them, but they fail to see it's a whole challenge. Want exploration alone? Go play an exploration alone game. This is a metroidvania, and probably one of the best i've played.
If you have problems with the difficulty, just get better or but an easier game. Unironically, it's not the game flaw's that it's too difficult for you (yes, "for you", because difficulty is arbitrary and some people even consider it as hard as hollow knight).

>>720262515
I'm loving the game, already a fan, and while I can see the game is not perfect and has some problems, the difficulty of it (only thing people are complaining about) is not a flaw.
If you want to criticize anything else, go ahead.

>>720261820
This literally makes no sense and still doesn't answer my question. If it's about getting better with stupid endless challenges, as they're insisting so much, then this entire game should just be about the Pantheon, where you train endlessly without stopping. Instead, it throws me into maps to make me explore, find secrets, interact with NPCs, etc. So no, it's not about that, damn it. For the thousandth time, I explore an entire map where even spikes deal 2 damage, and the secrets behind hordes of enemies in enclosed spaces are a damn rosary.

Enough of this "it's about the challenge" nonsense! You're the one who needs to go back to the Pantheon and keep getting better and better for god knows what reason. I'm here to play a metroidvania, what is it, and I'm questioning exactly that, what is it? But you're still not going to answer me; apparently, having maps and maps with nothing is good game design.

>>720261801
You need double jump so you can skip most of the citadel.

>>720263068
>If it's about getting better then it should be about MY idea of getting better
Children are less retarded than you.

>>720262515
I love the game but the only valid criticism of it is the economy is shit. Which they fixed. And the music isn’t as good as the first game. Everything else boils down to skill issue. I get super frustrated at times and think the boss is fucking shithouse but then I beat it and go “eh it wasn’t that bad at all”. People who say Last Judge and Widow are unfair for example are just genuinely bad at video games. They’re difficult don’t get me wrong but getting into the rhythm eventually is satisfying. The only truly shit boss is the Beastfly.

>>720263068
It’s about all that and about being difficult anon. It’s about more than one thing. It started as DLC for hollow knight so naturally it’s harder.

>>720263198
>>720263257
>1 minute apart
I'm NOOOOOOOticing

>>720263282
A normal rational thought is people samefagging sure man

In all honesty, I've only disliked the run backs so far. I hated the economy at first too, then I did some side quests/exploring on the side and was like
>oh ok, im back to 400 that quick?
act 1 has been great so far, a lot of great metroidvania moments

>>720259792
there's a bench every thirty feet anon. it's just bad players

>>720261856
>2x Shards and not just removing them
>Health bars
>Compass, Magnet without equipping them
>Quill without resting
This is embarrassing garbage and goes against the original Hollow Knight.

>>720263068
Radiance is easier and more fair than shit like Savage Beastfly.

How long is this fucking game? Im at Sinners Road and I just want this garbage to end already

>>720262643
I love Skong but it’s “hard” in the wrong ways. You know what game didn’t have any stupid runbacks or charge you currency to use checkpoints? Sekiro. And Sekiro was harder than any Souls game, as evidenced by the seethe it produces on /v/ to this day.

The thing about this kind of “difficulty” is it isn’t actually a barrier to progression, it’s just a test of patience. A special kind of shitter loves it, because it allows them to feel superior without actually being superior at anything except tolerating having their time wasted.

Ask these people why the game has runbacks at all and, if they give an answer that isn’t just shrieking “git gud”, they’ll say it’s to punish you for dying. Having to start from the beginning of a boss fight IS the punishment for dying. The skill barrier is beating the boss. If retrying right away makes the game easier, then the game isn’t testing your tactics or reflexes, it’s just testing your patience.

The entire Soulslike design ethos sucks ass. Silksong is a brilliant game IN SPITE OF those elements but they suck just the same

>Going around playing Needolin to various NPCs to see who has bits of song to share
>Get a nice performance from Little Pilgrim by the bench in Bone Bottom
>Skull Tyrant comes in from out of nowhere and starts killing people
My instincts tell me life shouldn't be so horrible

>>720263545
I really don't get how you guys struggled with that shit. Silk Storm alone makes that boss a chump.

>>720263282
They continue to ignore the fact that a metroidvania should be treated as a metroidvania, and every decision around this simple fact is stupid, as if they made the game without a GDD. So there's no reason for me to continue discussing this. Apparently Dark Souls 2-2D is a good game for a lot of people, so that's it. I'm glad so many people liked it.

>got stuck with the boss at the gate of citadel
>decided to explored elsewhere
>explored the sewer, the mist and gas factory
>ended up in citadel
am i missing out on anything?

>>720263760
Probably lots, but the Citadel is a key point and most roads lead to it. It takes up about a third of the map and has like 5 huge areas, you’re not getting around going through it.

Go beat Last Judge.

For people who love to shit on souls for simpilistic combat, you people sure are eating this literal 1 button to attack slop

>>720263616
I was both relieved and disappointed that the village rebuilds after a screen refresh. I was so sure the game was gonna Infected Crossroads me at that moment and ruin the shops and cancel any incomplete wishes from that board.

>>720263827
You're joking but people really just only use the needle and not anything else in this game, then bitch about the difficulty on fucking sister splinter.
I just dislike the goofy ass i frames in DS, really.

>>720261856
>All damage sources deal 1 mask
Can be fair for the early game when facing stuff like Moorwing
>2x Beads/Shards
Pointless garbage done by people who refuse to use their shard bundles or necklaces. You get way too many rosaries by the time you reach Greymoor.
>Healing only costs a perfectange of silk
I would have agreed with this at first but found that getting Silk is way too easy.
>Clawline no longer consumes silk
Objective upgrade, there's no reason for it to have cost silk when you get a regenerating base 1 silk anyway. The sprint doesn't consume silk though, this is retarded.
>enemies show a health bar
Raw dogshit and should never be considered
>The compass/magnet works without being equipped
Raw dogshit and should never be considered, especially when you literally get an upgrade for a permanent tool slot that can house the compass
>updates the map without having to rest at a bench
Raw dogshit and should never be considered
>Removed timers for delivery quests
Removed the entire point of these quests, kill yourself and plan your path and prepare it by killing enemies.
>Increased i-frames
This is getting pathetic
>Maggot effect no longer consumes silk
It takes a year for it to remove 1 spool of silk in the first place. Raw dogshit change.
>Skip game startup screens
Only other objectively good change

Modern gamers have been mindbroken by convenience this much huh?

I've never played a Metroidvania game like this where you are actively punished for exploring instead of being rewarded. There is literally zero point in going back to explore places because you get nothing of substance.

>>720262370
Thank you bro, really appreciate it, actually
It was driving me crazy lol there is like 1mm of height missing

>>720263959
Exploring is how you get to almost two extra maps, the crests, memory lockets, broken tools like poison and tacks, expanded shops and fat stacks of rosaries.

>>720264091
*masks

>>720264091
So a bunch of shit that doesn't benefit you in any way.

>b-b-b-but maps!!!
Incredibly poorly implemented.

>>720264136
>hey, spend 4 hours chasing down an extra mask which does LITERALLY NOTHING because 3 hits and youre fucking dead anyway

>>720263935
i'm not joking, it's a 1 button slop, i have been in like 6 areas and there's nothing else to use attack
>downward attack
pointless because most of enemies has helmets that block it or flying
>spear
waste of healing bar
There's literally nothing else compared to games like ori 2 prince of persia shadow fist the combat is ass and very simple

>>720263959
idk nigga i went to the locked weavenest doors after getting the song thing and got a bunch of cool shit so thats ur problem

>>720264091
These fags can't make up their minds about the exploration
>Why are the rewards for exploring a tiny amount of rosaries?
>What do you mean they eventually add up as I explore into a generous amount that can let me afford what i want but not everything right away?
>Um uhhh um I wasn't complaining about the ECONOMY dumbass it's just uhhh... fuck you, you're an idiot for not getting it

>>720264198
That extra mask clutched against the savage beastfly because i took damage from a small enemy and not the giant asshole.
So definitely not useless.
That other reply only uses the needle, and nothing else, and got filtered by moorwing btw.

>>720264002
You're welcome anon, I'm the OP btw, I hated this game, but I'm glad you liked it!

>>720263632
Because the quest version is summoning 2 enemies that shoot fire during it's dashes. And at any given point on any given pixel, it can decide to either continue moving up/down or instantly shoot forward.

>give myself 99 rosaries and shard bundles
>can now freely turn around and explore another path without having to worry about runbacks
>game becomes infinitely more enjoyable

What is that weird guitar strumming technique thing? The game literally does not explain what it is or what it does. Just "hold X"

does /v/ play with thumbstick or d-pad?

>>720264348
But people are bitching about the first version, though. Most haven't reached that second one(me included).

>>720264237
The economy problem in HK isn’t “not enough Rosaries” everyone figured out how to grind them and there are easy ways to string them up to save them after death. The economy problem is

>shards suck and shouldn’t exist, and are an underwhelming reward, but the game gives them to you like they’re money
>too many important progression points are rosary locked, forcing you to go back and grind to get some bench or open some door or fast travel point
Nobody bitching about the economy in Silksong is mad about 250 rosary tools or the 500 rosary simple key. They’re worried about the first bench they’ve seen in 45 minutes costing 80 rosaries and they only have 60 so they have to go back and kill enemies with 2 masks of health EVERY TIME they find a bench.

>>720262553
shut the fuck up i retard, It's not that its difficult to me, it's annoying. I didn't expect this much difficulty but it makes sense since they probably took feedback from retarded apes like you to balance it.

>Boss designs are cool as ever, and some of them are fun. Fourth Chorus was amazing, I really loved that fight! However. HOWEVER. Pretty early on they start dropping in bosses that are just things that fly, deal ridiculous amounts of damage and contact damage, including contact damage when they're in a stunned state, and MOST IMPORTANTLY: have swarms of adds. Nothing can ruin a fight more than having to track three extra little annoyances around the stage when I could be focusing on the rhythm and choreography with the boss. In other words, the art. The artistry of boss fights is completely lost in pointlessly inflated damage and really, really, really, really annoying bonus enemies, and they are reduced to a stressful, frustrating slog with no triumph at the end, mostly just relief and irritation that it's finally over with. I don't understand this choice. It makes the fights more difficult, yes, and also more frustrating and annoying, and at the cost of letting the player view and experience the boss. What was the motivation here? I don't understand.
KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK PEOPLE ARE MINDBROKEN

>>720264237
?

You can farm... and create your own rosaries... you know that... right, anon? You know that... kind of finding rosaries is pointless, right? Right?

>>720264471
>The economy isn't the problem
>Proceeds to complain about not enough rosaries and having to grind

>>720263957
>The sprint doesn't consume silk though, this is retarded.
There's a tool that makes sprint faster but drains silk as you sprint.

I uninstalled it after 8 hours. Just decided to watch a playthrough and I'm glad I did because the game is just riddled with awful design that only drags and drags and drags and drags as it goes on.

>>720261801
>>720260983
The trick is to unlock shortcuts and safe routes that seem longer.
If you're going up the usual way to get to the citadel you're doing it wrong.

so this is literally the hardest boss in the game, right?

>>720264723
Nowhere near.

>>720241654
magnetite dice make it redundant since it triggers more than once per life

>>720264580
Why the fuck would I stay in one place for rosaries and bore myself to death instead of
>doing quests
>exploring places that needed upgrades to proceed and finding shitloads of relics/rosaries
That's like grinding the fuck out of the first area of an rpg

>>720264716
>Bro, how come you did the quest without going through the secret passages? Just find it!

>>720264606
It’s about not having them when you need them, not things being too expensive.

I’d trade doubling the rosary cost of every single shop item for making most Act 1 benches available without a rosary purchase (I’m on board with the shit in Act 2, it’s got lore implications)

>>720264820
>Grinds to level 100 in the starting area of an RPG
>"Why is the level curve of thie game so shittily balanced?"

>>720243745
it's funny when you are in act 3 and all that stuff just seems tame
there's a boss later where you have to fight 3 separate arenas before you even get to him each attempt

>>720261856
>Healing only costs a percentage of silk based on missing health (1 mask = 1/3 of spool, 3 masks = full spool)
Genuinely a good change.

>>720258561
the cost is having to grind the materials to use the tools

The only Metroidvania I've played are SotN and Dawn of Sorrow, would I like HK1?
Is it a controller or kb/m type of game?
I'm interested in getting to Shitsong and kvetching with the rest of you.

>>720231094 (OP)
>>Everything does 2 damage, even scenery
This isn't true at all though. Even generously speaking it's like half the damage sources at best.
Also. You're like 400% more agile than the Knight. So try to get hit less to make up for it.

>>720264856
I just don't see the problem. If you can afford things in shops, why can't you afford the other things during exploration? I genuinely have never not met the requirements for a bench or anything like that, and I've still had plenty of money to spare for shops on top of that.
>I’m on board with the shit in Act 2, it’s got lore implications
Agreed on this though, I'd accept random benches not needing to be paid for just to make the paid benches in the underworks stand out more.

WHAT DOES STRUMMING DO?

>>720264820
I can answer the opposite.
>Why the hell go to areas with high punishment levels if I can just farm and have multiple rosaries?
Man, it doesn't make sense for me to get upset about even the scenario giving me 2 damage, and doing that is the stupid decision.

>>720264893
>>720264893
I really don't get the difficulty complaints at all. The game doesn't seem that hard at all. My biggest complaint if any is that it's just kind of boring. Like really the best game coming out in 2025 is a 2D indie metroidvania? The genre has been done a million times and there's nothing here that really makes it stand out.

>>720264996
There are far, far, far better Metroidvania games you should be playing before you touch this one. Even the first game is far better.

>>720261856
>All damage deal 1 mask of damage
Ehhh some attacks I would understand, like heavily telegraphed ones that you should be punished for getting hit by
>2x rosary
Fair
>2x Shards
Also fair but the system in general is flawed.
>healing
Ehhhh Kinda like it kinda hate it.
>Swift step
Fuck yeah.
>Clawline
Only issue is that you can cheese the fuck out of mobility areas with clawline, otherwise I agree.
>Health bars
Nah
>Compass/Magnet
Compas nah, magnet sure.
>Updates map without needing to rest
No.
>Timers
Fuck no. Get gud.
>Iframes increase
Breaks the game

>>720261413
you can make it if you do a sprint jump from that slightly raised ground nearby into a double jump into a harpoon
or you can just wait until you unlock the thing the other anon told you about

>>720264941
It’s not. I actually LIKE the tactical consideration of whether to heal now at 2 masks down or not
>pro: I add buffer to my silk meter so I don’t waste hits at max silk
>pro: I have a safety buffer if I get hit during a heal where I won’t die; if I wait until I’m 4 masks down, I’m cooked if I mistime my heal
>con: I waste a potential mask of healing, which means less silk efficiency.

This micro-problem solving is unironically peak combat design. The game is better than HK BECAUSE of the multi-mask single heal and I don’t want it removed for piecemeal changes that remove this tactical consideration.

>>720265026
>>Why the hell go to areas with high punishment levels if I can just farm and have multiple rosaries?
Because you're gonna go there anyway? And quests, more often than not, aren't in dangerous places, at least in act 1(the act that people say has an rosarie shortage). They're just fetch quests, or kill # enemies that are right next to a bench.

>>720261032
He'll whiff most of his attacks if you huddle in either bottom corner

>>720264638
>There's a tool that makes sprint faster but drains silk as you sprint.
You can run through an entire area and only lose like 1 silk. And that's if you sprint without interruptions such as jumping or whatever.
It might have some slight impact, sometimes, if you really want to be fully amped up for something or if you're on the brink of not having enough for a heal or silk skill. But in combat you're never going to lose silk from sprinting. And like, if you're sprinting across an entire region then whatever use your silk could have had probably wasn't urgent.

So I kind of struggle to imagine it having been an issue for anyone.

>>720265016
You’re more likely to eat shit and lose your rosaries making a dumb mistake in a new area. The game tends to ask you for rosaries after a gauntlet of ass kicking.

I’m on board with it for shops because buying from shops SHOULD be a reward for consistently playing well; making it a condition of reaching a checkpoint after a difficult area is an “insult to injury” thing. Nothing sucks harder than finally scraping past a challenging section only to find it didn’t count because you double-died on your fourth attempt and didn’t immediately stop trying to go grind out 80 rosaries before trying again.

It’s just not a great design.

>>720265224
I finished the game doing farms that didn't even take long when I realized it wasn't worth exploring so many dangerous (and bad) maps. The game is extremely linear and short compared to the first one when you do this, so it's just... I don't know, the game is just boring. Keep in mind that I did this after taking a lot of risks and my reward being chests I won't use and rosaries I can farm, all on dangerous and boring maps.

>>720231249
I wouldn't even compare this to Dark Souls since it does all the things people hate about that game minus the unfinished shit.

>>720265447
>You're more likely to eat shit and lose your rosaries making a dumb mistake
Again, this hasn't happened for me. If I died somewhere then I know I can easily get back there by playing carefully. But fair enough, these types of systems are incredibly punishing for lower skilled players.

>>720265608
I mean, when you keep going back to an area with nothing new to do other than to just grind, and you keep doing that everytime you reach a roadblock... yeah, I'd get bored too. I'm glad they mitigated that from Hollow Knight with Quests and the Rosary beads letting me on hang on to my stuff when I die.

>>720264573
>they start dropping in bosses that are just things that fly, deal ridiculous amounts of damage and contact damage, including contact damage when they're in a stunned state, and MOST IMPORTANTLY: have swarms of adds.
And to counter that you can;

Sprint like a speeding bullet
You have the clawline
You can combine the above with air dashes
Not to mention how you've got ranged silk skills and tools
And enemies flying won't save them from being pogo:d repeatedly

>>720264471
>They’re worried about the first bench they’ve seen in 45 minutes costing 80 rosaries and they only have 60 so they have to
Pop a rosary item from the inventory. Which is what they're for.
Have some good sense to save at least a couple of them on you at all times.

>>720265969
No. I shouldn't have to manage my resources like that.

>>720265725
The thing is, you can say “oh it only affects low skill players” but if that’s so, why care if it goes away? Surely if you always have enough rosaries to buy everything, then charging you rosaries is nothing more than a menu that asks if you want to unlock a bench, yes or no.

The cost only has gameplay relevance if there’s a meaningful risk you CAN’T pay it, and that risk impacts your experience. If it does, you have to be honest about whether it’s positive or negative (and just because it makes things harder for you doesn’t mean it makes your experience worse, I might add). If it doesn’t, then your opinion is pointless because you never engaged with the system anyway. Rosaries for you are like shards for the average player: so completely meaningless to your experience that you’d rather they be removed altogether just so they don’t clutter up the reward list with pointless bullshit you don’t care about.

I've literally been stuck on the exact same spot for the last 2 days. I cannot progress and I just don't know what to do. The pogo jumping gimmick has absolutely ruined this entire game.

>>720266221
>I've literally been stuck on the exact same spot for the last 2 days.
What are you stuck on?
>The pogo jumping gimmick has absolutely ruined this entire game.
Some kind of platforming challenge?
None of the platforming challenges are even White Palace tier.
The first game already did pogo:ing.

>>720266221
What spot? Also, what crest are you using? For a lot of players, getting a different crest helps a ton with pogo-centric platforming sections, as they alter your down attack.

>>720266221
>The pogo jumping gimmick has absolutely ruined this entire game.
There is a crest which reverts the down-slash to Hollow Knight's. Look around Bone Bottom.

>>720264723
I'll take him anyday instead of the crow fight club

So you end up in this area called The Mist and like the Sandworm area you can't see shit and everything needs 100 hits to kill and you get killed in 2

Very fair.

>Let's make the entire floor an environmental hazard that deals 2 masks of damage
>Except for 2 platforms that collapse 1 second after you touch them
>Oh, and the flying enemies collapse them too
>And they have perfect tracking 2-mask-damage ranged attacks
>And when you get past all that, you have to do a timed race up a series of collapsing platforms

What in the actual fuck were they thinking?

>>720237680
Kill Dark Souls 2 hater with a 1000 degree knife driven through their brainless skulls.

>>720266168
>why care if it goes away?
Because I enjoy having the risk of losing my stuff. If rosaries were as plenty as people wanted, then the collection of your cocoon would have no consequences beyond working with a smaller silk spool. And it should be noted, I did lose my cocoon once or twice, and it sucked, but that's why the game has the rosary items, to specifically make sure you don't fuck yourself into having to grind when losing all your active money.

You can argue about how these systems don't work on a fundamental level, and I can agree that it isn't balanced in favor for people who actually struggle with the game, but for me I find its presence works at keeping tensions high as I explore. I don't mind rosaries as a reward because it's just more for me to use later when I will need it, and it'll hit even harder the more I gain if I do lose them. I think the game's plenty forgiving given it lets you store your currency in a way that'll stay with you even when you die, and there's even an NPC who regularly produces an item for free that just auto-collects your cocoon without having to do the runback. You sometimes get these items as rewards for exploring as well, so it's not like it's limited to just this guy either.

I basically just argued "Well I like it" but that's all it boils down to really. It works for me, and I get that it doesn't work for others. All I can really give in response to someone saying why it doesn't work is to point to the many safety nets the game gives you to avoid total abject failure. And if even that doesn't work for them, then I don't know what else to do.

>>720231094 (OP)
>>720231249
I'm not really surprised that a $20 game being hard would bring out the worst of this board given the sheer number of retarded third worlders that ended up here since COVID, but seeing the result is still really funny

This is the first and last time I'll ever impulse buy a game.

>>720266747
Just "git gud"

>>720266767
yeah this shit was infuriating
first time I beat the gauntlet I died right at the end of the platforming section

>>720266767
lmao I'm so glad I quit the game and uninstalled before any of this shit. What an absolute waste of time.

>>720264723
actually unbeatable yeah

>>720265081
True. This is probably my least favorite metroidvania I've played.

>>720266767
EQUIP THE FIRE BELL YOU NOOB
I did this shit on my second try and I'm trash

>Thought I beat guardian Seth after a hard long fight
>That was just phase one
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>720242387
DeS was marketed as a le hardcore gamer game, zoom zoom

>>720242057
>if your attack did 1 damage at the start of the game and bosses had 30 health, there would be so little room for upgrades or more powerful spells or abilities early on, as doing 2 or 3 damage per swing against that 30 health is such a drastic improvement over the baseline
aaaaannnd not all bosses have 30 health, of course early game bosses and enemies should feel weaker and easier to deal with while using endgame upgrades, its a fucking metroidvania, Hollow Knight gets this right - why doesn't Silksong?
>"Ohh no, I'm worried an endgame player will feel like this early game optional content he missed won't feel enjoyable because he can steamroll it, I know I'll make it so that he feels like a weak limp dicked noodle the entire game, that'll really drive home the whole demigod character you play as angle"

>>720243764
>Silksong is tedious
In what way? You're super powerful. Super fast. You've got fast travel options. And respawn spots next to all the bosses.

First trying the (normal) final boss and most of the bosses people complain about makes me feel good not gonna lie. I'm not the only one right?

>>720266767
The thing that irritates me most about this is that there's just guaranteed no win setups - you can even respawn from falling in lava on that last mob wave and they're camping waiting to blast you point blank with their 2 mask dmg projectiles, but the firing is staggered so that one temporary platform is covered by the projectile sticking to it, theres one on the wall and you've got a fly swinging down toward you from above.
like what is this nonsense.

>>720268281
>You're super powerful
no
>Super fast
yea
>You've got fast travel options
yea
>respawn spots next to all the bosses
no

>mount fay
ok time to cheat engine my hp

>>720268490
get good you dumb retard

>>720268481
>>respawn spots next to all the bosses
>no
If you can get back to the boss under 40 seconds, it's next to the boss.

>>720268595
got my double jump now

>>720268490
If you're dying from the hazards, the moss charm might help a lot.
If you're dying from the freeze however then you simply need to get better at platforming.

>>720268643
>/v/ is literally gaming journalists now

>>720268364
reddit post

>>720237839
Upgrades should have an impact
Especially early on
This was the problem with the first game where the early game charms do basically fuck all
Still a problem now
They didnt learn their lesson

>>720231094 (OP)
have you tried not getting hit

So each time you fully unlocking a crest with memory lockets gives you a reward from Eva?
Except if it's the Hunter crest?
That's a shame. I wanted to use the Hunter crest.

>>720269272
p sure its just getting new crests

>>720268681
NTA, when i saw the big open area with platforming and started freezing, i just asssumed there's some kind of charm that keeps you warm and just left. Gotta go back there and give it a try then.

>>720269326
It's not. Talk to Eva. Get as many upgrades from her as you can. Go rest at a bench. Return to Eva. She won't give you more. Return to the bench. Fully upgrade a crest. Return to Eva. She gives you a reward. Fully upgrade two crests, and she gives you two.

>>720268281
>super fast
Not with that slow ass dash turn around you're not. I shouldn't have to know how to dash dance in your game

This is chatgpt shit, right? Sprinting doesn't cost silk

>>720269483
faster dash tool costs silk

>>720267601
I'd be more inclined to agree with you if the fire bell actually increased your fire resistance, instead of giving you what is effectively a 1-hp shield against fire damage on a 10 second cooldown. It also doesn't address the problem of the 2 vicious caranids that spawn that do 2 masks of contact damage and have a big aoe flailing attack that also deals 2 masks of damage. Or the fact that the fire projectiles stick to the fucking surfaces, jesus christ.

>>720268364
And respawning from falling in lava after you've cleared a wave but before the next one spawns puts you in the center of the arena with the mobs from the next wave already in position around you. Though I suppose that's probably what you meant.

2 mask contact damage is a shit design. Attacks? Fair enough, but there's no defending that shit unless it's like a fire demon or a poison fucker.

>>720233694
Can you cheese it with Save & Quit?

I LOVE FARMING BEADS
I LOVE HAVING TO DEFEAT THE SAME EASY ENEMIES OVER AND OVER AGAIN THEN RUN TO THE BENCH AND REPEAT UNTIL I HAVE ENOUGH
I LOVE IT

>>720231249
>let's you teleport between bonfires
>all enemies give you souls
>all bosses give you items and souls
>bosses do not have infinite supply of adds
>bonfires are free
>meaningful upgrades for weapons
Comparing dark souls to slopsong is an insult to dark souls.
Silksong is neither good metroidvania nor good souls clone.

>>720269648
Well at least the reward was about as good as it could be. Still doesn't excuse that encounter though. Seriously, what the fuck.

>>720269826
Why don't you just do some other objective until you have more beads naturally?

>>720231249
>pointless run backs
1. Platforming is fun
2. You are super fast in this game so you get right back into the in like under 0.5 to 1 minute every time.

>Mount fay
ok dude, ik ive been complaining alot BUT WTF IS THIS????? THIS IS COMPARABLE TO PATH OF PAIN IF NOT WORSE, THERES ABSOLUTELY NO CHECK POINTS, NO AREA ON WHERE TO GO AFTER YOU CLIMB, AND THEN YOUR JUST MAGICLY EXPECTED TO PERFECTLY SHOOT HOOKS ONTO EVERYTHING OR JUST INSTA DIE AND GO ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM??? IM NOT TRYNA PLAY AS MADELINE RN BAKA

reading the things people had trouble with reminds me that most of /v/ are 15 year old casuals.

>>720231249
>>720271449
>>720270041
>>720267060
>>720265624
>>720261219
>>720256605
>>720241483
TC literally denies Souls as an influence.

I asked them once on a stream and they denied it to my virtual face.

>>720231094 (OP)
I think you guys are either too old or too low iq to play this game.
>Everything does 2 damage, even scenery.
Lying, or genuinely dumb.
>just 3 misses will kill you.
In some cases. Not as bad as op says.
>At 6, you can still only take 3 damage
And 6 damage when you deal with literally everything else like obsticles, grunts, light boss attacks.
>captcha: GMMAD

>>720272534
They lied to your face then. The premises are almost 1 to 1
>ruined kingdom overtaken by some disease/curse/whatever
>you have to sacrifice yourself in some form to fix it/seal it/kill the source
>the story is found in bits and pieces through item descriptions

>>720272893
I know anon. What happened in Ari was in denial the whole time and William sort of said he got as far as Anor Londo. Both admitted to playing BB.

They just wanted to dodge the label.

>>720272534
That is incredibly unfortunate for TC then that many of their themes and even gameplay elements are are virtually 1:1 with Dark Souls.

Why the fuck couldn't every fight be designed like the first sinner?
>Touch damage is one mask
>Attacks are two
>Death spawns you right outside the boss arena

>>720273107
The funny thing about that fight is that the early version is the more difficult fight. The bells are lingering projectiles so they're more of a problem and take up more of your mental toil. I do agree that should have been the norm

>>720231094 (OP)
Hahaha oh my god you fags are terrible at video games. This is a basic bitch platforming metroidvania, imagine being this fucking casual

>>720231094 (OP)
I already explain the math for you, retard. Healing by 3 makes single mask upgrades still worth it. The only exception is if you are a faggot who never get silks and never heals.

>>720242052
I didn't look up guides, I just hated spell casting and ended up speccing into large fart clouds and thorns erupting from baldur shields as it was the best use of my soul power.

>>720272893
>ruined kingdom overtaken by some disease/curse/whatever
This was taken from Faxanadu and the devs have explicitly said so. Faxanadu's premise is that the hero returns to home (just like hollow knight) to find the kingdom overrun with poison that turns people mad (just like hollow knight)

>>you have to sacrifice yourself in some form to fix it/seal it/kill the source
This has been a story tool since Jesus.

>the story is found in bits and pieces through item descriptions
Lore is largely gained through npcs/dream nail, not really the items

>>720264419
Thumb but there's points where I use dpad.

>>720273651
Oh, and a lot of lore is from the bestiary. But again, not through the items

>>720273878
The bestiary in HK is basically just having The Hunter as an NPC in your pocket. You learn a lot about him specifically just by filling it out.

Has anyone gotten to the white ward yet? This place is fucking spooky, and it has spooky music to boot. It reminds me of the Soul Asylum from Mega man X7.

So what is it? Everyone complained that SotN and Aria of Sorrow were too easy because you could tank 10+ hits and chug 50 potions but when a Metroidvania comes out that actually makes enemies hurt then suddenly it's too hard?

>>720274076
Generations apart. Zoomers and whores got into gaming and demand instant gratification with zero skill commitment. No, silksong isn't that punishing.

i just fought Karmelita, how are you supposed to kill phase 3 without auto aim tools? she's retarded.

Just got the true ending.

act 1, tense, balanced and well paced.
act 2, very atmospheric start, gradually turns into boring and frustating checklisting
act 3, relaxing with fun bossfights and quests.

The worst parts of the game were the occasional shit bosses, minion spamming, obnoxious blinding attacks and offscreen attacks are all complete fucking shit.

Longclaw is the best charm, you get double charge attacks with hunter and can actually hit jumping bosses.

aside from that, 8/10 game, pretty good

>>720269181
That's the running theme for Silksong. It's like the devs doubled down on everything people complained about in Hollow Knight. Map is too large and tedius, we made it larger. Flying enemies are annoying, now most of the enemies fly. The constant spike pits in the late game can be frustrating, all platformign sections have spike pits now. and so on

>>720273651
Bro, you literally lose your currency if you die twice and have to rest and bench-fires. It's 100% souls inspired

The game is kicking my fucking ass but I'm still enjoying it.
However Vinny just beat Moorfly on his first try without the NPC which took me at like 15 tries so I'm unfortunately coming to the conclusion that I'm just very good.

>>720231653
>Anything that does 2 damage typically has a gigantic tell and is easily avoidable.
That's just not true, after the first 1/3rd of teh game everything starts doing 2HP of damage

>>720274953
*not very good
durr

>>720231094 (OP)
If 1 unit damage doesn't exist, why not reduce the starting number of masks to 3 and change the 2 damage hits into 1 damage hits?

By the time I got 4 masks shards 90% of things were still doing 1 mask of damage, have you niggers even played the game?

>>720274076
>It's both not fun in some cases alongside being difficult. I don't see myself replaying this game.
>>720274276
Just get potshots in every once in a while. Good examples are pogoing her after 3 hit combo and dashing in and doing a jumping slash when she throws her 2nd set of projectiles is how I did it. I still think she's a retarded boss. Who thought immediately dashing away out of reach on top of being practically immune to ground attacks was a fun combo?

>>720231094 (OP)
Git gud, unironically

>>720275060
>If 1 unit damage doesn't exist
but it does

>>720275112
accidental >
>>720275094
I can tell for sure you haven't gotten far in lmao. Anything to maintain that gamer cred and tell everyone that you're good at games I guess. Some midgame and most lategame trash mobs have attacks that do 2 hearts.

>>720275021
Nah you're very good for beating him without cheese or begging for nerf, anon.

>>720231094 (OP)
Having 6 masks still changes your potential heal windows which makes a surprisingly big difference

>>720275237
>I can tell for sure you haven't gotten far in lmao
the point is that retards are saying that everything does 2 damage right from the start, idiot. I'm sure that later on the higher damage becomes common but I'm 15 hours in and almost everything has been doing 1 damage still

>>720275249
Aw, thanks.

>>720231094 (OP)
I hate how the enemies in the underwork can hit you, take 2 HP, then knock you into the cogs for another 2 HP, making you lose 4 HP total from a single mistake. That clearly wasn’t playtested.

>>720234578
anyone who ever complained about iframes or runbacks in DS2 is a massive gigashitter with worms in their brain. The game's difficulty is the most well thought out in its own franchise

>>720275331
There are 2 damage enemies even in the start, though? Big skull guy, that ceiling boss that blocks wormways, the great filter savage beastfly, most of the enemies in deep docks due to fire damage, those flying slashing guys, I can go on and on. Stop being disingenuous

>>720231094 (OP)
Just... Don't get hit?

>>720275537
You're kidding right? You can buy infitie healing items in DS2 and your iframes are literally tied to some shitty stat that either makes the game too hard when it's low or too easy when it's high. DS2 has dogshit balancing

>>720275584
are you dense or are you trolling?
Read the OP again and then read my first post, I won't bother repeating the same thing over and over because of your poor reading comprehension

>>720240229
interesting that the Hollow knight post release boss centric garbage content was shit made to appeal to DS3faggots who go "bosses bosses bosses bosses" then, no?

>>720231576
just the first one, 2 & 3 were pretty noticeable.

>>720275702
>makes the game too hard when it's low
Imaging needing to level agility, you're just a shitter.

>>720249494
nah, the music alone makes that place worth it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq8wGcWeXwg
sounds like something from Legend of Mana.

I reached Citadel now and just beaten the cogwork dancers, but there's still plenty of places I haven't explore yet.
Am I way ahead of myself? Should I go back to explore the other maps first?

>>720256605
the good one doesn't. (until you get the lordvessel, and oh look, that's exactly where everyone agrees the game went to shit.)

>>720246716
>when in reality the reward is the challenge given by a new encounter.
that's not how it works for normal people
maybe it is for autistic neets living in their mom's basement or something, idk

>>720275875
Yeah, I'm sure you totally beat DS2 with half of the iframes all the other souls games have.

>>720259201
hallways requiring you to stop and wait because you have just as much trouble with the giant bell hat bug at max power as you did when you first got there isn't "challenge" it's tedium.

I just got the Flintslate, missed it earlier, is it worth using? How does the damage increase work, is it adding flat damage to my attacks or is it like burn damage that works like poison?

>>720275946
Nah, go ahead and explore whatever comes naturally to you. You can go back to the earlier areas at anytime, and some of them are a lot easier once you unlock more stuff in the citadel.

>>720264846
skill issue

>>720275946
That's a hard question to answer really because the game is so huge with so many optional areas available to you at your current progress. Keep exploring the citadel for now

i don't think i'd care how hard enemies hit if enemy of them actually felt like i was fighting an enemy and not a bouncing ball that occasionally swings a club 360 degrees

>>720276069
That's my biggest issue. I take more damage from contact than the enemy attacking me. Bosses too.

The "upgrades" in this game suck donkey dick compared to the first one. Nothing feels good to find. Oh cool I found a crack in a random wall with an item that gives me 0.5% progress towards something meaningful, so fun, I sure feel rewarded for paying attention.
I was excited to use the beast claw at first but having no gold slots and a fucking ASS healing mechanic made me switch back immediately.
Are there ANY crests besides the first two that aren't fucking retarded?

>>720261856
Where is this from?

>>720276103
Most of them are actualyl pretty good, the Beast is the exception for being total dogshit. Wanderer crest is the earliest one that just feels like a straight upgrade to the starting crest.

>>720275995
Considering the game doesn't mention it anywhere, yes I did. It's put into a throwaway stat no one levels. It wasn't until I came here I saw babies complaining about muh i frames and agility.

>>720276153
Hunter mogs Wanderer so hard its not even funny. literally the only good thing about Wanderer is having an extra dedicated compass slot.

>>720264723
i beat it with one skull, last phase is super easy.

>>720274925
It's embarrassing they'd even try to deny it. The memory dreams and king's door shit are all clearly DS2 inspired, there's an NPC that has maneater Mildred's bag head, the Hollow Knight and the Pale King are both Gwyn's roles split in two while the Radiance Infection is a mix of the First Flame and Chaos it's so on the nose it's not even funny

>>720276103
Architect is OP if you like spamming tools
Witch is as fast as Wanderer with better range, 3 blue slots, and a better life drain heal that works real well on certain bosses

>>720276191
You attack much faster and your attacks still do the same damage. Wanderer has higher DPS and a more intuitive downward attack

>>720276262
>Higher DPS
it's bait. the short range puts you in danger more often so you end up losing out on your DPS because you spend more time healing or outright dead
>intuitive downward attack
the Hunter dive is way better "as an attack" the wanderer one is just an easy mode for platforming.

>>720232592
if they didnt you would intentionally run into them for i-frames plus avoiding double damage

>>720266767
use hook to pouch enemy then pogo it easy

>8 years of /v/ crying about hollow knight
>now get ready for another 8 years of /v/ crying about silksong being too hard
this board is arguably unusable due to you clowns.

>>720276103
Getting beast crest is sort of like running into the Firelink Graveyard in DS1 and getting the Zweihander without the stats to use it, Beast Crest has a niche and I like using it for bossfights with the right charms and stuff you'll get later. I did the same thing as you did, Savage Beastfly is a cunt and I really should have come back to fight him later but I had no way to tell if that was the path of progress or not.
Look for other "Chapel of the"s as that is how you get crests. One of them is relatively easy to stumble upon, Chapel of the Reaper, and that crest is considered by a lot of people to be the noob crest because it's good. Chapel of the Wanderer requires you to use a Simple Key in the Wormways to reach early so you might want to save the key you can buy at the Bone Bottom shop for that. A lot of people really like that crest but I'd rather use Reaper or Hunter.

>>720276427
>Chapel of the Wanderer requires you to use a Simple Key in the Wormways
Wrong.

I think I finally pinned down what I don't like about the hollow knight games. It isn't the gameplay, movement or difficulty, those are all great.

It's the fucking Dark Souls shit where
>there's lots of dark, bland environments with very little color
>there's some convoluted "dark" lore necessitating dialogue and other shit that doesn't add anything to the game, who fuckin cares
>game just generally takes itself too seriously for something about cartoon bugs stabbing each other

>>720276336
>the short range puts you in danger more often
Unironically a skill issue, just learn your attack distance and enjoy killing things quicker.

>>720276336
NTA but desu, both deal good damage to the point it's just preference. Hunter is good for no damage runs and crits (i think are wanderer exclusive? idk) + fast attack speed are good as well.
>Skill issue or just get longpin. it's what i did

>>720231094 (OP)
A lot of the first HK progression felt like that, too. At the start you are but a measly, sickened child, who can only take a measly 5 hits, but at the end you are truly a God of Void, up against the toughest Dream Bosses and Pure Vessel, and you can now take... exactly 5 hits. Or you could not bother with masks at all and take 3 and that's really not that much different.

The only upgrades that really felt like the moved the needle at all in the first HK were the damage-ups. Which we know they do, because we have the datamined numbers and it goes up 4 points a level at base 5 so Pure Nail deals 4x as much damage.

I'm curious what the under-the-numbers calculations are going to look like for Silksong. I definitely used Tools an infinite amount more than Nail Arts, or any spell that isn't the one with i-frames, but the Needle is definitely going to be a fair bit worse than the Nail in terms of spell damage ratios. Silksong makes it such a pain in the ass to get half the damage upgrades so I can't image they're that integral.

>>720276153
Beast Crest is good for nobrain facetanking through bossfights for fun. Boss spoiler for the area past the Deep Docks simple key door: https://files.catbox.moe/vit3lu.webm

>>720276474
this is probably the gayest possible reason to not like the game

>>720276452
>to reach early
Unless you mean there is a way to get there before getting wall clling?

I FEEL THOSE UNDERWORKS FLIES ARE STRONGER THAN ME. THEY TANK MORE HIT AND HAVE A BIGGER MOVESET

WHY ARE NPC FLIES STRONGER THAN ME ?????????

IS THIS KENSHI ??

You can't refute this without using the tranny comeback of "git gud."

>>720264471
>The economy problem in HK isn’t “not enough Rosaries”
and then he explains why that's precisely the issue lmao

>>720276427
Reaper is a noob trap, it's so ass it's not even funny. Attacks are way too slow, significantly lower range on both pogo (though the arc mitigates it somewhat) and dash attack (the uppercut is only good for putting you in precarious positions), plus there's a blindspot in front of you on the upwards attack since the arc only comes from behind and hits straight above you.

>>720276615
>30 seconds
>insane

>>720269768
contact damage just doesn't belong in hollow knight. The movement, enemy design and area design just don't synergize well with it
The game should be unironically more like dark souls, where enemies only do damage when there's a hitbox active

>>720276615
>bitching about an optional fight
it's faster to cut through sinner's road and fight phantom.
not only does it put you in act 2, but it drops you at 2 fast travel points and the map.

>>720276615
Hornet runs faster than the cone flies can spawn.

>>720275730
Didn't I tell you to stop being disingenuous? Anyone who's played the game for 10 seconds knows that OP is clearly exaggerating to make their point. Do you seriously think they genuinely mean every single enemy?

>>720260983
Delicate Flower was a one hit or you fail quest, it's not worse in the slightest.

>>720276615
Last judge runback is like 20 30 sec max, what are people smoking ?

>>720239859
>split-second decisions in comba
which is fine unless there is more than one enemy on the screen because then you are getting sandwiched, knocked back and killed when you had full hp just before getting sandwiched

Where is the twisted bud in Bilewater? I've scoured the whole place and still can't find it.

>>720275995
lmao way to out yourself as a braindead iframedrone

>>720276797
You can juke every enemy in this game so easily. People are genuinely dogshit.

WHAT CREST DO I USE
I'M AUTISTIC AND GAMES FUCKING WITH THE CORE MOVESET TRIGGER ME REALLY BAD BECAUSE I ONLY WANT TO USE WHAT'S THE BEST AND MOST FUN BUT I CAN'T EVER SETTLE BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL SHIT IN SOME WAY

>>720276560
I mean, I like the game, it's good.
But, all the dark souls shit just makes it so much less interesting than it could be. Especially when it's committed to just not diverging from that aesthetic, at all. It's in that lane where it's so committed to the "dark fantasy" thing that it's just fuckin boring, especially when it comes to the generic classical soundtrack that goes in one ear and out the other

>>720276615
last judge runback is at least engaging / predictable, once you get good it goes by pretty quick
there's much worse runbacks in the game that people should be complaining about

>>720263657
>Treat it like a metroidvania
>NOOOO NOT LIKE THAT

>generic classical soundtrack that goes in one ear and out the other
bait used to be believable you know

>>720276357
How does running into the enemies( who do not damage you with their skin) count as iframes in a normal videogame? Yes, this game is designed lazily so they around hurtboxes and hitboxes so they would be easily exploitable bugs like no hitzones.

there's a subweapon i can find here, right? where is it?

Do you think they'll make the Zote game next now that they got a ton of money, or will they say "fuck you, you didn't reach the goal"?

>>720260983
Delicate Flower only really sucked if you didn't know that quitting out resets you to the last rested bench so you don't have to walk all the fucking way back.
Courier quests I want to say aren't nearly as bad regardless, Silksong doesn't have any real "fuck yous" in those like covering Traitor's Child Grave in thorns. The payouts for the generic courier quests are absolutely pathetic though.

>>720276951
The Groal runback is incredibly annoying just because enemy spawns are random. You cannot plan a consistent path through it all, often making your safest routes be the slow kind that adds up more seconds than if you could consistently sprint jump over those needle throwing cunts. Can't tell you how many times I had to waste time attacking those bloated flies just to heal off some maggots for the actual fight.

Where should benches be added ?

>BILEWATER
> Karak

and ?

>>720276779
I haven't done the Mist area yet but I understand it vanishes once complete. If I want the full bestiary entry for the ghosts do I need to stay and farm them before finishing hte zone or will they appear later?

>>720277038
Honestly with how much money HK and silksong have gotten I'm betting on them retring comfortably and never working again

>>720276980
This tells me nothing.

>>720277038
Maybe a short episode like what was originally envisioned with Silksong.
I'd feel like it'd have to be Festival of Blood where it's just Zote lying about his adventures, which might be funny for like a short bit.

>>720277118
They had a lot of fun making Silksong though.

>>720276615
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KloGPVAvSio
>hmmm I keep getting hit by enemies on the right
>what if I try going left instead and don't kill every enemy in my path?
>nah

>>720277151
how the fuck did i miss this

>>720277159
Anon, it's pretty explanatory. If you want a written explanation, go upwards to the room right to the exhaust organ (or exit the bilewater bellway and go up). Using the image it's practically impossible to miss.

>>720277076
that's exactly the one i had in mind
the needle guys are cancer, their spawns and pattern are complete RNG and then they throw an arena before each boss attempt
if you take a few hits on the way you don't get to heal after recovering the cocoon because you're cleaning off the maggots

>>720277204
>Don Quixote but with Zote
make it happen

You think the bitching is bad now, wait until everyone gets their jobber ass to Act 3.

fuck you BW

>think people bitching about Groal have to be overstating it
>die to him
>have to do the runback
Bilewater is so fucking shit.

Is Savage Beastfly really that ass or are people just struggling cause they're not using tools + silk attacks

>>720277250
Dunno, I missed it too. Had to check a guide because I did everything else in the area, fuckass boss included.

>>720277339
you found the bench, right?

>>720277204
Yeah, but they must be rolling in so much money right now. I guess if they really want to make a third game because they want to, since money is no object to them anymore, then I can see it

>>720277339
>What do you MEAN I have to do platforming in a platformer
>>720277370
The latter.

>>720277395
Yes. It's still cancer.

>>720277370
The first one is easy
The second one is cancer

>>720277076
There's a cache of respawning silk just above the boss room, so you can kinda get away with just bumrushing it and healing the maggots off when you get there. You get another silk refill from your cocoon in the boss room assuming you died there

Just beat Last Judge, great boss, shitty runback like everyone says.
Act 1 was a 9/10 for me, personally.

>>720276987
It's pretty forgettable compared to something like SotN, where literally every area gets a strong theme that sets it apart from the other ones. Meanwhile, I've yet to encounter any area with particularly memorable theme in silksong, and only remember the theme for greenpath from the first game

>>720277403
The game is $20. It's not that much money they're making after all the years of work.

>>720277403
Money was already no object before they did Silksong. I think they genuinely enjoy making these games.

>>720265083

Adding i-frames to a game in which you can die because not having enough i-frames causes you to get stuck inside big enemies and you die due to contact damage doesn't break the game, it fixes the retarded design. Contact damage for every enemy is retarded. Contact damage from staggered enemies/bosses is mega retarded. Having to chase your fucking currency around because it bounces everywhere is giga retarded. Your currency fucking imploding because the magnet drags it into a spike is ultra retarded. Getting "upgrades" that require you to use inventory slots just to fix their stupid design is ultra nigga retarded.

Only retarded niggers defend LJN NES tier shit game design.

Retard.

I missed the path to rhinogrund before act 3 and its dead... Did I softlock hunters notes or do they spawn another one somewhere else

>>720277415
I just beat the second one and it went a lot more smoothly than the first just because I have a fuller moveset now.

>>720277339
Every random enemy jumps - run under them. It's always safer to take the path with heavy spawns than the one with the floating mosquitos.
Hornet climbs faster than the big faggots can fire, just ignore them and jump.
She runs faster than all the traps, just run through them.
You should be back to Groal in 90 seconds maggot free. Which is still a hefty runback, but Hornet is very good at running.

>>720277414
just play carefully and abuse the fuck out of the spike traps, poison and whatever projectiles you have. groal doesn't have a lot of moves and they're pretty easy to avoid

>>720277487
Spoken like a true retard with no spacial awareness.

>the ghosts in The Mist have a hunter's journal entry
You have got to be shitting me. I didn't kill a single one before that area disappeared.

>>720276615
>RockSolid
Can this retarded grifter shut the fuck up already.

>>720277465
Steam had a highest playercount of 600k players. That's 12 million dollars if my math is right. 12 million amongst a team you can count on one hand. That's definitely more than enough money

>>720277370
If you get RNG with heavy add spawns it can be pretty cancer.
But like a lot of bosses in Silksong, if you just ignore trying to build meter for heals and just shit out spells and venom tools he usually melts before he gets too annoying.

I didn't find the second encounter to be much worse, if you bait him to lava dive he fucks off for a solid 5 seconds so you can deal with the adds.

>>720277716
Isn't that 8.4m dollars? Since Steam takes a cut

>>720276615
The judge runback is fine. It's actually pretty satisfying to do quickly once you have the route down. Groal is fucking cancer though

>>720277716
it's 5 milions copies

>>720263916
I like that the pilgrims built a statue for the craftsman pilgrim in thanks for all he did to improve the village.

>>720278083
>pretty much all PC
Console gaming is dead

>>720278083
>ps5, xbox, switch and steam all together = 5 millions PLAYERS
>on steam alone = 3 millions copies SOLD
lol
lmao even

>>720231576
They follow the same scaling as the Knight's where you start with 5 base dmg an then it goes
>+4->+4->+4->+4
When in reality it should go like this
>+4->+5->+5->+6
Then it would actually make a difference

>>720231249
dark souls 1 was never hard I don't understand where this fucking meme came from, it punished reckless retards but if you go slow and with a shield nothing will ever kill you in that game

if you go slow in silksong you get bodied

>>720234578
>mfw dark souls 2 is my favourite

time to purchase silksong

>>720277716
>>720278083
I always just take the review numbers x 100, and it's pretty close to the actual number most of the time

>>720261856
finally the game is playable, day 1 fags on suicide watch

>>720263657
the devs never once said silksong is a metroidvania, you fags just applied that term yourselves and judged the game based on your assumption

>>720276135
hollowknightsilksong/mods/92

>>720264404
Needolin, a Weaver musical instrument. It can stir up lingering will in the ambient silk around Pharloom, like the Dream Nail did in Hallownest.