Thread 720285785

What are we supposed to think the population and size of bethesda cities are?

skyrim is now old enough to fuck

>>720285785 (OP)
personally I think of it to about 1/25 scale

>>720285785 (OP)
It's made small because people want action instead of interesting worlds/places/etc.

>>720285849
It's only like 12

>>720285885
it's small because the game had to run on an xbox 360 and ps3.

>>720285785 (OP)
Autists really sap the fun out of everything.

>>720285962
maybe the second goty rerelease

>>720285885
it's small because bethesda is still doing the utima 7 style world with everything interactible and npcs with schedules and stories

why can't people comprehend something in fiction not being true to reality?
yes, the biggest town in this fantasy game is comprised of less than 20 families, it can still be a commercial heart and one of the most populated locations
>but in reeeeal liiiiiife
but i don't care, if pigs fly in my fantasy story then they fly, i don't give a rat's tit if pigs can't fly

>>720286124
lmao

>>720286049
What is this "fun" you speak of? Everything has to be 100% logical and realistic. Fictional characters must resolve every possible problem before the plot even begins. Every city in a video game must be as large and complex as a real city with completely accurate infrastructure. We will force things to be completely logical or our over nine thousand terminal autisms will make us explosively shit ourselves and screech like howler monkeys. Now if you will excuse me, I have to throw a violent temper tantrum because my peas and carrots are touching. Then I've gotta watch Wapner.

>>720285785 (OP)
about 3 times bigger without voice acting
about 15 times bigger without consoles

>>720285962
did he stutter?

>>720286093
The npcs have minimalist routines and no stories

>>720286192
Hello sar

>>720286283
>random redditism

>>720286246
and it still takes a lot to of resources to make those routines, quests and dialogue trees for a city the size of whiterun

>>720285962
Yes, and?

>>720286379
That's why Bethesda slop sucks

>>720285984
couldn't they just add more loading screens? or just add some high walls and shit to make it feel bigger

>>720286379
Doubt.jpeg

>>720286093
cities in ultima 7, a 1992 game were as big as skyrim's lmao

Why is Whiterun's sigil of a horse if they don't have a horse-centered society and no particular cultural association with horses?

>>720285785 (OP)
They could easily have just filled it with shit, but then you would have called it boring and repetitive.

>>720285785 (OP)
Why did you screencap this? Are you retarded?

>>720286093
The second people stop with that, people start bitching. You're doomed if you do, doomed if you don't.

Nobody actually likes overly big hub cities that just waste your time walking from place to place

Its honestly why average people get filtered by morrowind, balmora is just too big and all the buildings look identical, for aesthetic reasons its incredible but gameplay wise it took me over half an hour to find the fighter's guild on my first playthrough

>>720286601
Todd liked Rohan in the lotr movies.

>>720285785 (OP)
Can't make the Imperial City look small in comparison, please understand

>>720286730
>gameplay wise it took me over half an hour to find the fighter's guild on my first playthrough
jesus christ lmfao

>>720286724
I'm reminded of webms comparing the lack of collision for tableware in Avowed with someone hitting some cups in skyrim

>>720286856
And how big are Avowed cities?

>>720286897
no idea I never played the game

>>720286730
You are doomed if you do doomed if you don't

>>720286730
balmora isn't big, none of the morrowind's cities with exception of vivec are noticeably bigger than skyrim's
>it took me over half an hour to find the fighter's guild on my first playthrough
i hope you're baiting

>>720286856
Little things like schedules and interactible items do a lot for immersion. It's why Skyrim is still being played and modded 14 years later

>>720285785 (OP)
Would you prefer a bigger cities with nothing to do like ubishit cities? Huh, so bigger open world means better now?

>>720285785 (OP)
with hindsight ES were glorified jeremy soule delivery systems

>>720286583
No one cares about your shitty 2d pixel slop, unc

>>720286730
balmora isn't big.
Vivec is though but it's more that the way it's designed makes navigating it a pain.

>>720287151
>played and modded
as an artificial academy substitute

>>720285785 (OP)
What makes Skyrim's cities so fucking retarded is not how small they are, but that they contain more citizens than there are beds/houses.
Fucking Nazeem is a 'wealthy' snobbish guy but he doesn't even own a fucking house, he rents a room at the local inn all day and night!
How fucking hard is it to go 'okay, for every family we have to make sure there's at least a small house for them'?

>>720287462
Nazeems house was cut content but he's supposed to have a manor outside the walls.

>>720287505
doubt.jpg

>>720287505
He never leaves Whiterun, and he does not own a home in the city he lives in.
Todd, go home you're drunk.

>>720287538
>Nazeem holds the key to Chillfurrow Farm, as well as a key to Wintersand Manor, which seems to serve no known purpose. Entering help wintersand 0 into the console (PC) shows that there is a Wintersand Manor Key, a location called Wintersand Manor and a Wintersand Manor Faction, but no Wintersand Manor cell, implying that Wintersand Manor may be a location which was removed from the final release, but the key was overlooked.
It's too easy to look up information for you to act retarded like this.

i dont understand what kind of wizard magic was used to make cyberpunk with millions of npc living their lives and a city so big you could fit 1000 winterholds in it
the power of 1 polish indie team is equal to 5000 indian outsourced toddy bois

>>720285785 (OP)
People who want empty cities with nothing to do in them because they're more "realistic" cannot see the apple. It's why they think the cities are that small in the first place, they can't imagine that things have been abstracted.

>>720287645
Cyberpinko NPCs stop existing when you stop looking at them

Bethesda NPCs are tracked even when not rendered

>>720287645
>i dont understand what kind of wizard magic was used to make cyberpunk with millions of npc living their lives and a city so big you could fit 1000 winterholds in it
That's simple, NPC's in Cyberpunk don't even really have routines or persistence. You can walk around a corner, go back to where you started and not a single NPC that was there before, is present.

>>720285962
Out of 10!

>>720287640
>implying
fanfiction but even if, just further proof bethesda is incompetent. they have whole 10 houses in the capital and forget to take away the key to the cut eleventh one?

>>720287645
they use the same magic as gta did 20 years ago with npcs that generate and disappear with draw distance

>>720287058
NTA but Balmora has twice as many NPCs and homes as Whiterun.

>>720285962
pedobear territory.

>>720287710
This is such a stupid idea, everyone has visual dreams, ergo, everyone is a 5. They're just too retarded to realise they can visualise shit while conscious.

>>720285785 (OP)
It's just a limitation of the hardware of its time, if you play ESO, you'll find the landmass is, just a personal estimation, about 4 times the size of Bethesda's mainline scrolls games. The Rift itself is massive, Riften is much larger in scale, the waters are big enough to fit boats of appropriate scale in the docking yard, and the amount of people in Riften is much more realistic, maybe 30+ npcs roundabouts.

>>720287785
All NPCs in Balmora were static, literally standing in one place without going anywhere.

>skyrim-whiterun-v0-n8k420pq5dfe1.jpg
you got me, it made me reply
fuck you

>>720285885
It's small because after the early 2000s, open world just became a way to scam investors.
Shit out a height map with randomized assets that are coordinated with a pathfinding algorithm like quest markers and you can say that you made a BIG game, so of course you needed a BIGLY BIGLY budget and 8 years to make it.

>>720287710
If you're going to make a world so vague and unfinished the audience has to fill in all the gaps, why fucking buy the game at all? Just draw on a piece of paper.
Bethesda is just so incompetent that questions like
>What do they eat?
Had to be asked, because the worlds were getting too simplified and vague.

idk, on the one hand, having a huge cities where you can have infinite thieving and vampiric adventures sounds fun, on the other, I preffer unique npcs with unique voicelines over generic citizen without a bit of personality

>>720288373
because the game world exists for the player and gameplay, not realism
I don't need more than a shop, a tavern, and an inn. you're just wasting my time and your resources if you bother making entire locations to tell me what people eat and where they shit and how they dispose of their shit.

>>720288063
I will never play ESO. I do not like microtransactions and I do not like the awful writing of idiots. Furthermore, I abominate the Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages, or UESP, for incorporating the incompetent flavuor text of idiots into articles on previously established subjects, seamlessly with actual lore written by competent people, thereby making it impossible to understand at a glance what a particular concept or subject is all about, as you now have to scrutinice every single article for things like "Due to their diets, Bosmer who followed the Green Pact were notorious for passing gas [2][723][23513]" which all link to fucking ESO babble, and which for love nor money no Redditor will ever have the courage to abominate, which means that when at the end of hope you Google "[subject] site:reddit.com/r/teslore", all you get is circular idiot shit from MMO addicted retards. I hate it, I hate it, and I hate it. Caring about the Elder Scrolls "Nirn" setting has been pointless at best and masochistic at worst since whichever time I'm not cogniszant to that this change occurred, probably around 2020. Damn Zenimax, and damn Bethesda, and damn the Internet. Damn, damn, damn it all. Damn it all. I only like Daggerfall and Battlespire and Redguard and Morrowind and Oblivion and Skyrim. To Hell with what it has all become. To Oblivion with it. I no longer care!

>>720288063
>It's just a limitation of the hardware of its time.
More like a limitation of the devs ability to give a fuck.
If they're going to use AI and procgen for everything anyway you'd think they could at least make it realistic scale. Starfield NPCs were even more braindead walking through a handful of possible paths then disappearing like ghosts. Worst of both worlds.

>>720288639
What do they eat?

>>720288923
food

>>720288995
Made from what?

so we're at "it's ok world doesn't make sense" phase in a series praised for "alive" and "expansive" worlds

>>720285785 (OP)
Am I the only one who never goes to this section? The fuck is even here?

>>720289010
there are farms right outside of whiterun I'm not sure how you're confused

>>720289092
for me it's the crypt. went in there once and 180'd before exploring it much and never returned

>>720288995
Talking about Fallout 3.
What do they eat?

>>720289092
Is that where the cow is? I'm always getting lost and ending up in the cow's yard. I think that's in the middle district. What Whiterun could have done with (hear me now, modmen!) is some clearer delineation between the three districts. What the modders could do these days, I'm sure, is make a separate worldspace cell for each district, sacrificing seamless navigation for depth of representation. The game is nearly fifteen years old and it's well past time such milestones of accomplishment were reached.

>>720289190
there's an entire restaurant. the bar also sells you food

>>720289092
No, nothing useful there, think it is just the battleborns for their quest to rescue their kid and a couple empty NPC houses.

>>720285785 (OP)
Bethesda cities and populations are supposed to represent something larger than what you see ingame and it works well enough in Fallout or Elder Scrolls games but the illusion didn't work at all in Starfield
It's a method of presentation that doesn't apply equally to all settings and scifi with supposedly thriving cities is one setting where it fails to convey the right feeling of immersion

>>720285785 (OP)
what about an elder scrolls game that takes place in a single city.
so a skyrim sized map all used to flesh out a single city.
something like morrowind's mournhold dlc on a larger scale.

>>720289290
>Bethesda-retard can't answer simple question
Jej.

>>720288639
A pure gameplay approach. I respect it, especially with everyone's gay fucking focus on muh story, muh choices, muh writing.

In this case, after having been a Morrowind fan for so long, I disagree, but I can respect it.

>>720288605
>having a huge cities where you can have infinite thieving and vampiric adventures
It sounds tedious. Navigating an actual city on foot is boring and incredibly time consuming, having several minute stretches where you do nothing but press W makes for terrible gameplay.

>>720286601
Why is Britain's sigil of a lion if they are an island nation that don't even have lions within the same hemisphere as them and no cultural association with lions

>>720289472
>Navigating an actual city on foot is boring and incredibly time consuming,
lmfao maybe they should add electric scooters in the next one for you kids

>>720289092
That's the "Cloud District", and clearly you don't get there very often.

Hall of the Dead, Battle-Borns and Grey-Manes, Amren/Safir/Braith's home, Temple of Kynareth.

>>720288676
Alright then

>>720287710
why can't you just imagine the city being small and having things to do in it?

>>720289512
Same issue, slightly higher speed.

>>720289349
Play Morrowind, go to Vivec, go to Mournhold.
Hell, even fucking play Oblivion and visit the Imperial City.

>>720289535
Do you agree with me or are you deserving of a swift and ultimate death?

>>720285785 (OP)
one of the best cities in video games was prague in deus ex mankind divided. too bad nobody wants to make anything similar

>>720289493
>india
what a mistake that was

Vice City.

>>720289583
I played both games and visited those locations, now what?

>>720289637
Must I spell it out for you? Re-read the first line here:
>>720289349

>>720289714
>Must I spell it out for you?
Yes. I am so clueless as to what your point is I don't even know if you're trying to disagree with me or make a different new point altogether

>>720285962
Too old.

>>720289637
Now pleasure me, slowly and deeply, carefully, with "Pokémon X" affection, making sure to respect my self image while projecting your own worldview into your suckmode, and with each lunge affirm to yourself and the universe at large: "I will never respect ESO cucks, who are fags. I will always believe in the 'Kirkbride Narrative Model'. I know what's best for The Elder Scrolls as the world's only fully democraticed creative initiative. I accept that Cyrodiil was that way, and Dunmer were this way, and Nords were this way, and not in the way Zenimax sought to syntheseize."

>>720289780
>clueless without someone pointing everything out directly
Can't help you then. Good luck in the future, anon.

>>720286785
The damage lotr movies made to the ES-series is immense

>>720286093
let's not pretend Bethesda small cities are a result of inherent limitations born from having dynamic npcs and interactibles

with a little bit of optimization a half decent engine could manage 100 times this number of dynamic NPCs and props, it's not that hard, what would be hard is managing 10,000 times that number of dynamic NPCs (as in, you'd need an actual competent engine to do that, it's not impossible, just hard).

it's just that gamebryo is shit

>>720289865
That reads like a terrifying AI ERP prompt

>>720285785 (OP)
they should at least packed the houses and make buildings with multiple floors

>>720286124
Its because RPG towns always depended on a limited view to seem bigger than they are. Being able to see the whole town at once from a distance fucks up the whole concept

>>720289583
>Play Morrowind, go to Vivec, go to Mournhold.
They're bigger and closer but still not to realistic scale for what they are. Vivec is like 80% storage spaces.

>>720290046
100x the npcs is not feasible with their already huge development cycles
gamebryo isn't shit and they've specifically crafted it to make designing large 3d environments and filling it with these npcs and objects to be quick and painless

All this cope about town size in this thread is hilarious, and gets btfo'd by just a few games.

Is nu-/v/ really held hostage by modern retard devs into thinking it's acceptable?

Solitude. Provincial capital. Eleven houses. LMFAO.

>>720290158
>realistic scale
It's a fantastical city from an alien, fantasy culture. That isn't really saying much, anon. I understand what you're trying to get at, but I don' think it applies here.

>>720290046
I think anon was just referring to the amount of work it would take to create so many unique characters, each with their own homes.

>a half decent engine could manage 100 times this number of dynamic NPCs
What are you talking about? No "half decent" engine comes even close to achieving that. Shit, no AAA engine from an actual competitor has achieved that. It is absolutely a technical limitation.

>>720290046
>a half decent engine could manage 100 times this number of dynamic NPCs and props
Yes, please bloat the game's file size to 1000 times what it is.

Have ANY other fantasy games EVER done ANYTHING as good as Morrowind's big old bug niggas and carved out cities? Has the genre really been creatively stagnant since 2002? That was 23 years ago. When will another "Morrowind" happen? I ask in good faith.

>>720290213
If you have an open world game with complete freedom to go wherever it's better to scale your cities down otherwise you end up in a situation where you hold W for 2 hours to cross a city from east to west and you come across a handful of buildings that might actually interest you across the way
People always mock open worlds for being empty land but real cities are boring as fuck outside of a few places dedicated to public gathering
Like what would we be the appeal to walk through 50 iterations of the same building?

>>720286730
>Morrowind
>big
Balmora is smaller than whiterun and Vivec only looks big because of it's various cantons

>>720290405
Is riding giant bugs really that amazing an innovative thing to you? Did the giant mushrooms also wow you? How about lizard and cat folk? So amazingly imaginative! What drugs were they on, right? Morrowind is so fucking overrated.

>>720290485
Balmora is a relatively new settlement

>>720290494
You must answer my questions before you may be derisive. Have any other games done anything like it, or not? Are you defending or lauding phantom games that do not exist for the express purpose of winning the 4chan argument? If so I must let you know that I have never lost an argument on this website and your luck accordingly ends here. Answer, or accept that you must commit ritual suicide for such a massive personal failure, and in so doing make these threads that little bit better, for we none of us truly want you here.

>>720289521
https://vocaroo.com/1o6lmN6CFist

>>720290213
I'd be fine with a small handcrafted towns rich in lore and narrative or i'd be fine with massive proceduraly generated towns where I have to hunt for interesting stuff but it at least feels like a real town.
What i'm not fine with is towns that are both small and empty which is what we get today.

Behold! The entirety of the most important port of Morrowind! Almost all Imperial shipping passes through this vast metropolis!

>>720290485
>Balmora is smaller than whiterun
It's bigger.
>Vivec only looks big because of it's various cantons
It only looks big because it's big???

>>720290181
>100x the npcs is not feasible with their already huge development cycles
95% of the npcs only have a name and a sleep -> work (sometimes not even then) -> eat -> sleep routine. you don't need a 18 months dev cycle to create 100 of those, or else there is a real problem with your company.

>gamebryo isn't shit and they've specifically crafted it to make designing large 3d environments and filling it with these npcs and objects to be quick and painless
gamebryo is extremely shit because it can't handle what it should have been made to handle: dynamic npcs and dynamic props. we get small cities and loading screens everywhere because gamebryo can't handle more than 20 NPCs at the same time, but that's a purely gamebryo problem

the problem is that gamebryo is shit, not that it's physically impossible to have more than 20 dynamic npcs in a place

a decent game engine can handle 2000 dynamic npcs without shitting the bed with ease. a good one well optim could handle 200,000, but then we're talking doing it for the Art and for no real purpose and constraint on other parts of the game

>>720290780
you are out of your depth here

>>720290725
Seyda Neen is a village even in the lore
At least the Skyrim cities people shitpost about are supposed to be capitals and large centers of commerce

>>720290780
>95% of the npcs only have a name and a sleep -> work (sometimes not even then) -> eat -> sleep routine. you don't need a 18 months dev cycle to create 100 of those, or else there is a real problem with your company.
You forgot about having to make a place for them to sleep and also unique dialogue.

>gamebryo is extremely shit because it can't handle what it should have been made to handle: dynamic npcs and dynamic props
It handles that fine. Don't know why you think it doesn't.

>gamebryo can't handle more than 20 NPCs at the same time
That was true two hardware generations ago. Get with the times, gramps.

>a decent game engine can handle 2000 dynamic npcs
What in the fuck are you talking about? Are you referring to RTS games or something? Do you have any idea what sorts of shortcuts they need to take to fake that shit?

The Seyda Neen census rigmarole is the most immersive way of introducing the player to an unfamiliar world ever put to code. Change my mind!

>>720290405
pretty sure in GTA games you can get a cab or a plane and not drive it to the place yourself.

>>720290485
>Balmora is smaller than whiterun
No Balmora is at least twice the size, try looting every house in both. Interiors are bigger too.

>>720291008
Grand Theft Auto is nothing like a fantasy series. It is a humorous pastiche of our real and contemporary world and depicts the technology available to us in all our daily lives. There is nothing like big old bug niggas or carved out cities in the setting of Grand Theft Auto, which is for all intensive purposes "Earth As It Is". Furthermore, I have no idea what the fuck you're trying to say. You're pretty sure that in these irrelevant games you can get a cab or plane and not drive it to the place yourself? Do you speak English or are you an idiot monkey?

>>720289493
Lions actually existed in europe and all over the mediterran and near east during roman times. But they got all killed because they were like wolves but worse.

>>720286785
Little known FACT:
>Skyrim started out as s LotR license pitch and it was only when Bethesda failed to secure the license that it became TESV
>You can still find references to Smaug and such in the original files

>>720285785 (OP)
While I made fun of it back in the day, in hindsight I vastly prefer the smaller hand crafted Skyrim style cities. The fact that you actually bother to know who the people are in the city and remember them adds a lot.

It's not just "oh, that's weapon merchant #5 as indicated by the minimap icon" it's "oh, there's the black chick who's father works in the palace, she sells weapons" and so on. It's not much but it adds a lot.

This is Narsis, one of the largest cities in Eastern Tamriel, second only to Almalexia, capital of Morrowind and home of its namesake living god. It has 191 locations in the city.

>>720290726
no it isn't nigger. Balmora is literally smaller than Whiterun and that's not counting the farms it has outside the wall.
>it's big because it's bigger?
half of the cantons are empty and filled with static npcs. stop playing modded version and see how they look

>>720287151
to be honest I hate object physics and it's why I never play a mage, it just means you have to spend 10 minutes after combat crawling around the floor looking for the good loot or god forbid unique loot you just knocked away

>>720286601
Location wise it would make sense for Whiterun to develop a horse-centered culture given that it is situated in the middle of Skyrim's plain lands
They have stables and stuff too but it's not exactly enough to make a big deal out of it
But I guess locals would still associate their city more with horses than other animals like sea creatures in the northern coastal towns or wild game that's found in the more forest dense regions in Skyrim's south

>>720291316
>Mod with decades of developement time

>>720291341
>Balmora is literally smaller than Whiterun

>>720291464
>No argument
I accept your defeat. go cry in the cuck corner like the faggot you are

>>720291226
>Black
Adrianne is a MEDSTAVCY tho

>>720291341
You don't get to call people nigger when you can't count.
>half of the cantons are empty and filled with static npcs
So they aren't empty.

>>720291586
>I accept your defeat. go cry in the cuck corner like the faggot you are

>>720291673
Static npcs are soulless and serve no purpose. thus they are empty just as Vivec

>>720285785 (OP)
Canonically the Imperial City has a population of half a million, and Solitude is the second largest city in Tamriel, so presumably a lot.
IIRC from Kuhleman the entire continent has an estimated population of 10 million.
Also the entire continent is about the same size as North America, so while cities can be quite large the population density will be - on average - very low.

>>720290725
You get booted off at seyda neen because its a fucking backwater and has an imperial office, you are pardoned because the empire wants you to be a covert operative to fuck with the tribunal

>>720291316
I had to have uesp open so I knew where shit actually was. Do they sell maps of Narsis like in Anvil?

>>720289521
>That's the "Cloud District"
Ackshually that's the Wind District.
The Cloud District is just the Jarl's palace.

>>720291775
Cope

Elder scrolls is a pretty shit setting all things considered.
>but muh pre-oblivion lore
was also shit. no one wants to explore a jungle filled with flying bugs or flying mantrays

One-handed or Two-handed

>>720294094
Two-handed.
Steel.
Axe.

>>720294236
Then you're either a Stormcloak sympathizer or a fool. Either way, you're no friend of mine.

>>720285785 (OP)
I am having fun with Dead Thrall looking for high quality bodies, the thing is storing them is a nightmare. There are tips about how to preserve the corpses on the web, but most of them are wrong.

I lost the entire Deathbrand armor because some highly regarded post branded it as "permanent". Not that I cared about it, just saying it didn't work.

RPGs are supposed to be abstract; that's why whenever RPGs try to depict worlds realistically, they always fall short.

>>720294000
Trips of trvth

>>720286508
>couldn't they just add more loading screens?
if you played this on a 360 or a ps3 you would not ask this

>>720290046
>a half decent engine could manage 100 times this number of dynamic NPCs
Is that why no other engine has even attempted despite Skyrims massive success
>it's just that gamebryo is shit
Creation isn't Gamebryo, even the creators of Gamebryo said so

>>720294710
but i would, though. the sheer scale would have the people justify it years down the line and by then anyone could just pop open a fresh can of Nexus mods to download open cities and shit (i gówno)

>>720285962
it's 14 actually

>>720295104
Too old.

>>720295025
They added more loading screens in Oblivion and people have spent the last 20 years shitting themselves in anger. Skyrim is the consequence.

>>720294743
It's just corpro bullshitting. No company wants to say that they've been selling the same software over and over for 20+ years with a few new features tacked on, but that is what they realistically do in the industry.
If they didn't completely start from scratch then most likely the majority of the code is the same, even when they do start from scratch they often pull in code from existing projects.
"Replacing a little bit" means they kept the same fundamental structure and design but patched, hacked, and retrofitted it.
Making a truly new engine means starting from scratch and completely redesigning.

>>720296087
Only a retard would start from zero instead of reusing as much as possible to speed up development.

>>720296410
no anon they need to make an entirely new engine and train their devs who have experience with the old one
I know better than the billion dollar company

>>720296410
>>720296706
>NOOO It's not the same engine!
>It is the same engine and that's a good thing!
Make up your mind.

>>720295025
Overscaling the world is not worth the extra loading screens, Bethesda is really bad about splitting areas into cells as it is.

>>720297036
It's the same engine in the sense that unreal 4 and 5 are the same engine

Meanwhile, in a Morrowind mod.

The worlds got so many people because god likes to fuck. Hes never really commented on whether or not this world would still exist if he wasnt allowed to fuck for pleasure. Its somewhat insulting to have an immortal alien pounding my friends butts. Hes set it all up though so if you comment on it, you’re going to be taking meds.

>>720297036
It's not the same engine brainlet, but the code bethesda had added to the game since Morrowind was theirs. And they tried to emulate what they had experience with and make their own engine. This mostly happened because Gamebryo was sold off to some Korean company and both Bethesda and Zenimax didn't want to renegotiate their license.

>>720297810
Lay off the moon sugar.

I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an arrow to MY LEG

>>720285785 (OP)
It had to run on a PS3 with 256MB of VRAM

>>720294094
two handed is objectively dogshit because smithing adds just as much damage to a dagger as it does to a warhammer

>>720285785 (OP)
I think people don't appreciate how large things are irl and how hard it is to handcraft a world. Cyberpunk 2077 happens in just one city, and it feels large with tons of unique areas and what not, and it still has less content than a bethesda game. And Night City isn't even realistically large. Actual CP LA would have to be 20 times that big to be realistic.

>>720289626
The gift that keeps on shitting.

>>720297593
>mod
yeah so what? there are also skyrim mods that add buildings

>>720300258
explain new atlantis being so small it looks like a resort with a tall building more than a city

>>720287557
>>720287749
>uhm actually, it can't be cut content because it's not in the game
retard-chama...

>>720288063
Weird how the hardware was capable of bigger cities 5 years before Skyrim.

>>720285962
oh really now?

>>720285785 (OP)
Like cities in most 3d games, the player is probably meant to experience the city as a gesture toward a larger environment, while keeping the amount of explorable space limited so the player isn't stumbling into random homes with nothing to do in them. In the case of Skyrim, and Whiterun specifically, I think they failed pretty badly at communicating the scale of the cities.

I think a game that handles this much better is Runescape. Their cities are still nowhere near big enough to be real cities with lots of people, but they have enough variety and livelyness to sell it.

>>720285785 (OP)
each npc = 1,000 npcs you just need to have imagination.

>>720285785 (OP)
>commercial center of Skyrim
>the entire market square is just two stalls
Riften has a bigger market and it actually looks like a market somewhat.

>>720307449
Three stalls.

>>720289493
because britain used to rule half the world, including places where lions were present, and thus could pick an exotic apex predator as their symbol.

>>720307449
Riften is just a really great hang

>>720289092
I like visiting the temple of Kynareth and the Gray-mane's house

There's nothing inherently wrong with the scale Bethesda chose the problem is more a matter of density. Whiterun, for example, the buildings are too small and there's too much space between them. Why they were so against having adjacent buildings being up against each other or even connected and having a sort of quasi-apartment like structure, I'll never know.

I mean, shit, all the houses save ones like the Battle-born house are all one-room things anyway. You may as well jam some of them together and make row houses to give the feeling of the cities being more populated than they are.

>>720310001
>Why they were so against having adjacent buildings being up against each other or even connected and having a sort of quasi-apartment like structure, I'll never know
Because it's inspired by Edoras, not brutalist New York.

>>720310176
Edoras buildings are close together.

yes and nobody shits or eats, its a video game
>inb4taxpolicy
>grrm invents armies and manufactures fortunes out of nowhere to fund mercenary wars

>>720285785 (OP)
So is this a motte and bailey and bailey? Did they have double baileys back in the day?

>>720285785 (OP)
Autistic sperg with no imagination demands fiction to imagine for him.

>>720311059
NPCs used to eat in Oblivion.

>>720286601
They copied Edoras

>>720286601
>they don't have a horse-centered society and no particular cultural association with horses
What makes you think this? Their inn is named the Bannered Mare, there are stables right outside, practically all of Whiterune is plains ideal for horses. Are you daft?

>>720287710
>can't even imagine things that he doesn't have to imagine because games with bigger cities that had more to do in them existed long before Skyrim did
Retard-sama, I kneel. You're a 6 on that scale.

>>720311662
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DELETE THIS OBLIVION BAD OBLIVION BAD I'M A COOL KID THAT MUST FIT IN OBLIVION BIG BAD

>>720285785 (OP)
devs have said the canon size is Daggerfall style

>>720297036
It's the same core logic but with all the bones and meat replaced. The engine was actually designed with mmos in mind which is why it can handle so much cpu heavy tasks. It's also why Koreans bought and used it for some of their mmos.

>>720297593
Oh we doing mods?
Pic related. NBD, just a Skyrim mod. Feel free to admit Skyrim is the better game now since the mod city is bigger

>>720287710
>dipshit thinks inability to conjure up visuals in one's mind implies absence of abstract thought

>>720313135
>Feel free to admit Skyrim is the better game now since
nah. for me only morrowind out of all tes games scratches that open world rpg itch, the rest i find pretty boring

>>720289493
>no cultural association with lions
there's been some connection since Norman/French rule

>>720294094
one handed. grey-mane.

>>720290725
>canonically a small backwater village
>unironically bigger/the same size as the average skyrim city

>>720291426
skyrim took 6+ years with a far bigger team and more money to burn

>>720289626
Not for spices and textiles it wasn't. Cotton was grown there to be shipped back home to be made into textiles in UK factories. It was also used heavily to feed the homeland at the expense of Indians not getting food much like they did with Ireland and the potato famine.

>>720315561
>muh spices
who cares. salt is all you need

>>720315854
Sure thing bud.

>>720285785 (OP)
A game world is an abstraction, and should not be literal.
If you had to walk around a city big enough for a 1:1 replica, it would be tedious.

>>720285984
>it's small because the game had to run on an xbox 360 and ps3.
Okay what about this?
As far as I'm concerned you can't play saarfield on ps3 and xbox360
This is the biggest megapolis in the galaxy btw

>>720285785 (OP)
Console limitations.
>was for Oblivion
>was for Fallout 3
>was for New Vegas
>was for Skyrim
>was for Fallout 4
And is going to be for TES 6 whenever it is released.

so you retards want object permanence, huge sprawling cities, and thousands of npcs with routines and schedules... yet bitch about the cost of 5090?

>>720286192
>Everything has to be 100% logical
That's a true statement
Didn't read past that

>>720286730
>Nobody actually likes overly big hub cities that just waste your time walking from place to place
You can ride a horse or fast travel
Daggerfall did this
Oh wait you can't ride horses in cities in skyrim HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>720286049
>skyrim
>fun
No its normalfags and their retarded obsession with conformity and normality

>>720287710
>People who want empty cities with nothing to do in them because they're more "realistic" cannot see the apple
It's quite the opposite btw
By your logic every single city in any game should consist of two shops and a place to stay. And that's it. A city of 3 houses. Every city. Every game. Fuck off, retard
>nothing to do in them
Fill it with something to do in them then, faggots

>>720315973
your tastebuds are fried saar

>>720315854
>who cares
Buddy, the existence of the US was because of Europeans wanting to keep the spices flowing in from the East and not have to deal with the newly created Islamic Ottoman Empire that effectively cut free trade across the Silk Road between Europe and China/India. It's what set off the Age of Exploration.

>>720289996
half of arena and daggerfall was ripping off lotr and dnd.

>fallout 5 will have different races to pick and play as, each with their own starting location
>classic vault dweller starts from a vault
>raider starts in a camp
>ghoul starts in the ruins of a town
>beat the game to unlock super mutant
>pre-order to play as khajiit

>>720316820
Sounds awful

>>720316309
>daggerfall
As if any of you retards have ever played it
It is miserable traveling around in that game

>>720286093
>I WORK FOR BELETHOR, AT THE GENERAL GOODS STORE
Yep what an amazing lifelike NPC with a routine and everything, this definitely makes up for the capital being composed of 5 cottages

>>720285785 (OP)
Why does the New Vegas strip, the cultural and economic heart of the mojave, only have a dozen npcs walking around?

Because of console and engine limitations.

You know that spell in Harry Potter that keeps Diagon Alley hidden?

>>720291775
the trvthnvke morrowboomers fear

Shouldn’t the commercial heart of Skyrim be one of the ocean bordering cities? Even Windhelm seems like a more viable pick, it has access to the ocean