Thread 720318560

Honest thoughts on Sonic Heroes?

i dont think

>>720318560 (OP)
All 3D sonic games are complete shit. Basically every sonic game has been shit since sonic and knuckles, until sonic mania, with exception of half of sonic generations, which was not to bad. Obviously the 2d half.
Unlike mario that did great transferring to a 3d space, sonic is complete shit in 3d.

>>720318616
>he don't am
baka

>>720318560 (OP)
a good game in terms of design. Unfortunately the mechanics needed refining

too repetitve

>>720318560 (OP)
Heroes and Shadow > SA1 and SA2

>>720318560 (OP)
Rails, too much rails.

>>720318560 (OP)
It's ok

>>720318560 (OP)
Has the best presentation of its "era", but plays like crap, both in terms of controls and "combat" and level design after you pass the second zone.
Curious what the apparent remake will play like. Not surprised they'd choose to remake Heroes first over SA1/2 considering most of Heroes' environments already have HD equivalent assets to reuse by this point
>Seaside Hill from Generations and the racing spinoffs
>Grand Metropolis would probably use a mix of Empire City and Metropolis (from Forces) assets
>Casino Park from the racing spinoffs
>Rail Canyon from Shadow Gens
>Frog Forest would probably be a mix of Adabat, Silent Jungle (Lost World), and Luminous Forest (Forces)
>Hang Castle would probably use stuff from the "haunted" tracks in TSR and Crossworlds
>Egg Fleet from the racing spinoffs
Probably wouldn't be much different from Shadow Gens, development-wise, which also reused a ton of existing assets.

>>720318560 (OP)
Everybody I know personally said they didn't enjoy it, and online is generally the same sentiment, but I don't see why.

Genuine question, what is wrong with this game?

Not a sonicfag so I'm not biased, I just never noticed anything wrong with it. I only remember that its a "bit" janky but the bigger problem I faced was the stage difficulty. I finished Amy's Team and got halfway through Sonic and Chaotix's team and damn they were tough.

>>720318560 (OP)
Ocean Palace's theme is fucking kino.

>>720318886
I think the controls just needed a little more time in the oven. Level design is great, except for a few "blow out all 51 candles" levels.

Untested dogshit that fails to do a single element of a sonic game well

>>720318560 (OP)
Great game.
>>720319019
Based

>>720318560 (OP)
The entire game is just a giant endless hallway with terrible fights that stop you every 10 seconds.
It's so fucking bad

>>720318560 (OP)
Could forgive everything wrong with it if it didn't force you to play through the same game four times.

Playing Team Chaotix reminded me how rage-inducing the physics are in this game.

The FUCKING FACT that if you want to go to the Special Stage you CAN'T TAKE A HIT is absurd in a game as janky as this.

Sonic Adventure's original lighting was really ambitious and dynamic, it's a shame they had to downgrade it before launch

>>720318560 (OP)
If you just do one playthrough of team sonic/dark, fun. Rose is pointless and chaotix obviously suck

>>720320797
Nah, this game sucks. I'm just too much of a Sonicfag to admit I probably shouldn't try to play it. In terms of actual fun and entertainment it causes me more stress than engagement.

SHAA

>>720319882
Slippery controls, and it’s even worse in special stages
Combat is a pace breaker when Sonic games are about speed
Four playthroughs to unlock the final boss

>>720318689
No one cares about the opinions of classicfags

>>720318616
Oh nononono descartes bros, what is this???

Really good level design from an artistic standpoint
Good music
That's about all the good I can say about it. I guess I can say the idea of playing as Sonic Tails and Knuckles all at once is pretty good. Other than that it is very much the start of the series being consistently bad

>>720318560 (OP)
This one was bad for the simple fact that it played like shit. Didn't mind just repeating levels with some light variations if it played like the Adventure games, but it doesn't, it sucks.

>>720318560 (OP)
The struggle while playing through Heroes is worth it for the Final Boss

>>720319882
Off the top of my head.
>janky physics
>loose controls
>Grinding is objectively worse than SA2's.
>Some find the Chaotix gameplay tedious.
>Special stages aren't fun to play thanks to the aforementioned jank.
>have to play through the same levels 4 times to unlock the true ending
>PS2 version(what most probably played) is buggier than GCN and Xbox versions, and runs at a worse frame rate.

>>720321647
>Metal Sonic gets a badass edgelord upgrade.
>don't ever get to actually fight him in this form

I think

>>720322406
IF they really do make a Sonic Heroes remake they need to add a Neo Metal Boss fight

>>720318689
>Obviously the 2d half.
Bait. No way hes this retarded.
3&k still clears btw

>>720321647
Its really not
You can get a better experience playing shadow gens.

SHIT
ROCK
YEAH

>>720321647
>the entire finalboss is just playing match the color until your “do damage” button fills up
You are blinded by Crush 40. Metal Overlord sucked ass.

>>720318560 (OP)
As a kid it was the first Sonic game I played that I did not like too much.

First adventure game started the trend of hallway levels with no variation on paths BUT it had a lot of soul and gameplay, along with movement so it turned out great. Adventure 2 and heroes really cemented no variation though, and now with little movement tech were where we are now of all Sonic games just being subway surfers

>>720318560 (OP)
I remember this being the first instance that taught me not to get hyped up for a game just because it looks cool in magazine articles.
>a whole 3D game like SA2's sonic stages? AND I can switch to Tails and Knuckles whenever I want? Wow!
Kid me was pretty disappointed. I forced myself to like it for a bit, just for the sake of how excited I was beforehand Then I beat it completely and promptly went back to SA1/2 and the classic games instead.

>>720323583
>>720323417
I just thought he was cool, damn

>>720318560 (OP)
It's one of those games where I like everything about it except for the game itself

If it ever comes to NSO, they should launch it with a SP version that's a 100% save. Sentiment will improve if people playing it just need to play Team Sonic or Team Dark once then the final boss.

Omega is based though, hope he gets used again.

>>720323583
At least he's better in Shadow Generations. Helps that Metal being the King Sisyphus is applicable there since he lost to Shadow 1v1 despite his upgrades due to time displacement power level discrepancy and Doom powers.

>>720318560 (OP)
it's great fun when you don't have a faggot in your ear telling you it's worse than hitler

>>720321087
>>720321784
Alright that makes sense. I wouldn't have scrutinized it as much as a kid.
I do remember the game being "difficult" but I chalked it off as genuine difficulty, not artificial difficulty due to bugs, jank, and awful gameplay.

WILL there be Sonic Racing Crossworlds /v/eekends?

Sonic Heroes had cool levels and graphics at least on the Gamecube (I always heard the PS2 version was worse).
Playing as 4 teams was repetitive though, and I would've liked Adventure 2 style story where everyone had their own levels.

SHITnicbros............

>>720318616
WHO CARES WHAT YOU THINK YOU ARE NOT MY FATHER

But will you play as Blaze?

>>720322747
favorite level, ever

>themes, music, designs
kino
>actual gameplay
poop

>>720326778
This is every Sonic game after Adventure 2 and before Unleashed (because even the music and aesthetic value goes to shit too)

>>720327291
>because even the music and aesthetic value goes to shit too
Both Colors and Generations look and sound great.

>>720319019
>tell me you were 10 when you got your Gamecube and it's your favorite console without telling me you were 10 when you got your Gamecube and it's your favorite console

>>720318560 (OP)
It's a piece of crap

>>720318560 (OP)
I think it's fun to go back to once in a while because I miss Ryan Drummond as Sonic

>>720319019
the correct answer is SA1 > Heroes = Adventure 2 > Shadow

>>720327291
hating unleashed music is one thing but it looks better than most games released today

>>720318560 (OP)
Game looks AMAZING on modern hardware but the controls are still jank and levels too long.

>>720327793
I don't mind the longer levels but the controls honestly do need some tweaking

>>720318560 (OP)
Notable dip from the adventure games. You play the same game 4 times reskinned, and there isn't even any side content outside the bonus stages.
Physics also feel way worse.

The first Sonic game to really feel outsourced

>>720327498
Talking just graphically, I think every game after gamecube era, not just Sonic, took a nose dive. That is when they became more washed out, started adding rim-lighting and bloom, and adding too much detail to environments. Sonic's model is also lankier and gross compared to his original Adventure designs.

Look at this shit. Game is called Sonic "Colors" but is more desaturated than OP's pic.

>>720327291
This but unironically

I don't understand why they didn't do what SA1 and 2 did when reusing levels/assets.
SA1 rearranged the level order for each character story so you're not going through the same shit the same way every time, and even made certain levels exclusive to certain stories.
SA2 reuses environment assets across levels, but also used changes in lighting, weather, and time of day to make each area feel more unique.
Heroes could have done both of these to make the whole "play through the game as each team" bit less of a slog. Hell, Heroes already has a few different skyboxes for certain stages for the multiplayer mode. I'm pretty sure Iizuka directed all three games too, so I don't know what the fuck happened with Heroes.

>>720327498
Generations is just unleashed but worse

>>720327590
That critique doesn't really work when SA 1/2 were also on gaycube

This game would be a classic, beloved game if they didn't put in the Chaotix story

>>720328508
Generations dialed back certain visual effects because Unleashed was optimized like shit.

>>720328440
Too much effort. Heroes was sonic team just phoning it in after flopping out of the console war.

>>720318560 (OP)
It's not good, but it's the only 3d sonic game that feels like a proper continuation of the classic sonic titles in terms of visuals and vibe.

>>720318560 (OP)
Its biggest flaw is the level design. The levels are too long, but paradoxically too sparse and linear. The amount of work they put into making the level would have been better served putting a bunch of the segments parallel to each other and having connections between them that used the character powers. Boostshit has shown us that a good 3D Sonic level should be 2-3 minutes long with plenty of interwoven paths. There's enough content in every Sonic Heroes level to make that.

>>720328737
SA1s sonic stages do an okay job, sometimes.

>>720318560 (OP)
Songs are a jam. Was unironically listening to the System Menu theme when I saw this thread

>>720318560 (OP)
One of the best 3D Sonic games, but it needed more variation amongst the four teams to make it feel less like you were playing the same game four times in a row.

>>720328512
i see you don't understand.
it's pretty easy to tell who played SA 1/2 on their Gamecube from the older generation that played them on their Dreamcasts.

>>720318560 (OP)
It's a lousy game and Sonic Team had some fucking nerve to make players play the same goddamn stages four times in a row with different teams that functioned exactly the same.

>>720318560 (OP)
I enjoyed it. Some parts piss me off, but it was genuinely fun to replay. Clip related.

https://files.catbox.moe/itgj2a.mp4

>>720330682
all part of the slippery slope.
SA1, you only had to replay levels 3 times.
SA2 you had to replay them 5 times.
Heroes, you get to replay them, what, 56 times? 4 teams, 14 levels?

>>720330810
At least the layouts were completely different in SA2 for the light and dark stages.

I don't know why they don't just say "Hey, we had something good with SA2, let's go back and refine that formula"? They inject multiple play styles in all their recent games anyway, either with the stupid wisps, or with the player character in Forces, and so on. Just make Knuckles' stages about combat and tricky platforming since his glide and wall climbing are forgiving instead of hunting for emerald shards. For Tails, put him back in the Tornado or a new mech, he can have gameplay like Armored Core 6. For Sonic, the more streamlined, arcade-like approach works. Maybe something like Out Run but with more platforming.

>>720331140
but the layouts are also different for the different teams in Heroes. still feels like you're retreading the same areas over again, don't it?

>>720318560 (OP)
SHIT
ROCK
YEAH

>>720318560 (OP)
It's fun, best level design in the series altho I would appreciate less of the extra paths being use specific type here, physics are fucked up so you rocket to your death often. Also combat sorta just there.

>>720330810
SA1/2 at least took the Mario 64 approach of giving you a different objective each time you replayed a given stage - i.e., through SA1's different characters and SA2's missions.
Heroes decided to make three of the teams different "difficulties" instead, and then gave alternate objective approach to team Chaotix only - with said objectives just being very tedious overall.

I don't get what they were thinking. Maybe they figured people would be fine going through the same game four different times with only slight variations since that's pretty much how the classic games offered replays with different characters, and Heroes was trying really hard to classic-esque after the Adventure games.
In retrospect, Advance 1 and 2 did the same thing as Heroes, where to access the final boss, you have to collect all the emeralds as Sonic, then beat the game as each other available character, THEN beat the final boss as Sonic again before you can access the proper final boss - which tends to last only thirty seconds or so in each game.
Somebody on Sonic Team around that period really liked this forced slog approach to making people get 100%.

>>720331229
>but the layouts are also different for the different teams in Heroes
Object placements and goal positions are different, but SA2 still had completely different stages in comparison.
Heroes just has you go through slight variations of the same exact stage.

so should i wait until the eventual remake or play it with mods?

>>720333262
I doubt a modern remake will play anything like the original. Might as well try OG Heroes if you're curious.

>>720326542
WILL IS NOT A COAT
WILL IS NOT A CLOSET

>>720332614
>Somebody on Sonic Team around that period really liked this forced slog approach to making people get 100%.

Iizuka

>>720333262
>>720333436
Sonic Adventure 25th Anniversary Pasta

The best release of SA1 is Dreamcast GDI US 1.005 (1999.10.05).
The best release of SADX is SADX PC (NOT the Steam release) with SADX Mod Loader and Dreamcast Conversion.

>Dreamcast
Sonic Adventure original GDI (US 1.005, animated title screen)
https://myrient.erista.me/files/Redump/Sega%20-%20Dreamcast/Sonic%20Adventure%20%28USA%29%20%28En%2CJa%2CFr%2CDe%2CEs%29%20%28Rev%20A%29.zip
Sonic Adventure DC-HD patch on flycast emulator (60 FPS, widescreen)
https://gitlab.com/PiKeyAr/dreamcast-image-builder/
Sonic Adventure 2 GDI (US v1.008)
https://myrient.erista.me/files/Redump/Sega%20-%20Dreamcast/Sonic%20Adventure%202%20%28USA%29%20%28En%2CJa%2CFr%2CDe%2CEs%29.zip

>Gamecube
Sonic Heroes
https://myrient.erista.me/files/Redump/Nintendo%20-%20GameCube%20-%20NKit%20RVZ%20[zstd-19-128k]/Sonic%20Heroes%20%28USA%29%20%28En%2CJa%2CFr%2CDe%2CEs%2CIt%29.zip
Shadow
https://myrient.erista.me/files/Redump/Nintendo%20-%20GameCube%20-%20NKit%20RVZ%20[zstd-19-128k]/Shadow%20the%20Hedgehog%20%28USA%29%20%28En%2CJa%2CFr%2CDe%2CEs%2CIt%29.zip

>Windows PC
Sonic Adventure DX (NOT the Steam release)
https://archive.org/download/sadx-disc-1-2
SADX Mod Installer
https://sadxmodinstaller.unreliable.network/
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle PC
https://archive.org/details/sonicadventures2battle.7z
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle Render Fix
https://github.com/shaddatic/sa2b-render-fix

>List of available Sonic Adventure (+DX) builds
https://dcmods.unreliable.network/index.php/2021/09/03/list-of-available-sonic-adventure-builds/

>Blog examines the differences between Dreamcast, Gamecube and PC versions of Sonic Adventure, focusing on changes in the Gamecube and PC ports that can be considered downgrades from the original Dreamcast
https://dreamcastify.unreliable.network/index.php/category/level-specific-downgrades/

>>720332787
there are a few character specific stages in SA2, but just a few.
the rest are just remixed variations that use the exact same assets. visually, they might as well be the same level. Prison Lane is Iron Gate, Hidden Base is Sand Ocean. White Jungle is Green Forest. etc.

>>720334240
>the rest are just remixed variations that use the exact same assets. visually, they might as well be the same level.
And? That's still preferable from a gameplay standpoint, especially when the given characters play differently. Like Knuckles in Pumpkin Hill and Shadow in Sky Rail. Same environment assets, but a different enough experience in each that it just makes the end result feel like the different stories are traversing through the same cohesive "world", instead of just having players run through the same levels in the same order over and over again.

>>720334240
>there are a few character specific stages in SA2, but just a few.
>the rest are just remixed variations that use the exact same assets. visually, they might as well be the same level. Prison Lane is Iron Gate, Hidden Base is Sand Ocean. White Jungle is Green Forest. etc.

SA2 had a low budget and quick dev time

>>720334580
>And?
and so it feels like you've already been there.

>>720334689
It's supposed to feel like that. The stages are in the same general area.
SA2 had a low budget, and that was the devs' way of accomplishing more with less. In comparison, Heroes did less with less.

>>720318560 (OP)
Shit rock.

>>720334674
they were still working on it when SEGA announced they were done, i imagine that also affected the team's work eithic.

>>720322747
>tails with blue shoes

>>720334810
>It's supposed to feel like that.
which is why SA1 feels like it respects your time more.
SA1 had enough content to pace it out. and so SA2 felt lesser, like it was trying to stretch out less content for longer. and Heroes felt even lesser. hence, the slippery slope.

>>720318560 (OP)
I wish I could have done better than only beating it with the two easiest teams.

>>720335068
What the hell is this logic.
SA1 has you enter the literal same stages (story-wise, because the characters all present in the same Station Square area), the devs just rearranged the order for each character.
SA2 has original stages for every character, they just reused assets due to a lower budget and to make it clear to the player where the stories used overlapping geography (e.g., when everyone's on Prison Island, at Eggman desert base, on the Ark, etc.) But even then, SA2 still played around with different weather and lighting in several places for visual variety.
Heroes uses the same stages, in the same order, with no attempt at variety for each team. Some of the intro stages don't even line up with the opening cutscene for certain teams (Team Sonic and Dark's stories certainly don't start at the beach).

There is no slippery slope. SA2 is a step up from SA1's approach, since it used the same geography logic while providing fully-original stages, and Heroes is just blatantly worse than both.

>>720335043
I don't like it either, but Neo Metal looks so cool

>>720335635
They should have done the Neo Metal reveal at the beginning of Egg Fleet, and then had him as the final boss instead of another Eggman mech.
Kind of pointless to have a twist villain if said villain has barely any noticeable presence in the story.

>>720318560 (OP)
a lot of sonic games are more fun and satisfying on replays when you learn the layouts of the stage and do all the inputs/mechanics in one clean run. sonic heroes doesnt feel that fun even when you breeze through the levels with your gained muscle memory (because you have to replay the levels 3 fucking times) so I dont really like this entry.
biased because I prefer 2d sonic anyways

>>720333262
mods?

>>720318689
btw you objectively can't mention mania being good while simultaneously ignoring superstars

Sonic Heroes Of Might And Magic

>>720318560 (OP)
I'm glad my mom never bought this game for me growing up. Looks like trash compared to thr adventure games. Still haven't played it to this day

>>720335604
>SA2 has original stages for every character,
and less characters.
and only two minigames that already appeared in SA1.
and no HUB worlds. y'know, the adventure part of Sonic Adventure.

>>720335604
>SA2 is a step up from SA1's approach
it is less game stretched out for way longer.

SA1 was SEGA throwing spaghetti at the wall.
SA2 was SEGA looking at the biggest chunks that stuck and trying to make a game around them.

>>720318560 (OP)
It's okay. Just okay.

>>720333262
Remake?

it alright

>>720328020
If you start paying attention closely, you notice that this entire franchise it's outsourced.

>>720318560 (OP)
Am I the only one who understands the complexities of this ambitious vidya masterpiece? This game isn't stupid, YOU'RE STUPID!

>>720318560 (OP)
slippery dogshit

>>720339470
Shut up, Mandy.

>>720333262
Has any Sonic game been remade ever? Ports sure, but not full remakes.