Thread 720410091

is it worth playing in 2025?

>>720410091 (OP)
yeah, better than bg3

>>720410280
No it isn't

>>720410091 (OP)
>>720410280
Yes. BG1 and 2 + expansions are miles and miles better than 3, if you don't suffer from brainrot.

>2e mechanics
Hard pass

>>720410091 (OP)
It's a great game but I will never forgive it for introducing romance faggotry to wrpgs.

>>720410091 (OP)
Do you like magic? Then yes.

>>720412529
It is completely optional, and none of the options are like the crappy mess modern games have. They are all tame, short, and not at all focused on sex, it's just a little bonus.

>>720416696
>it is completely optional
I wish your mother had thought otherwise when she was debating weither to abort you or not, you fucking mouthbreather.

>>720410091 (OP)
Only if you have nostalgia for it (which I do, fucking loved BG2).
Otherwise, you're probably better off playing one of the modern CRPGs, including BG3. The two Pathfinder games are pretty great as well, and I'd recommend Pillars of Eternity but it's not necessarily for everyone. BUT they are working on adding a turn-based mode to the first game (which bodes well to possibly a future sequel since it means they're testing out if they can make an enjoyable turn-based experience with the systems they have, since 2's turn-based mode wasn't necessarily great)

>>720412529
You can blame Final Fantasy 7 for that one.

The real question is what is the most absolute cheese build to play so you can sleepwalk through it?

>>720410091 (OP)
It's worth playing for the sole reason that they somehow made Elven romance a compelling story.

>>720410091 (OP)
Yes but if your first introduction to rpgs was Dragon Age or BG3 you may have an expectation of a cinematic waifu game instead of tabletop RPG strategy.

>>720417294
They literally just released a AA game set in the Pillars universe this year, anon. Of course there will be a sequel.

>720417107
Yeah yeah, go back to fiddling to karlach's cock you dimwit.

>>720417523
BG1 and 2 were not tabletop RPG strategy.
Something like Pools of Radiance (original one) or Dark Queen of Krynn would be.

>>720417409
dual macing fighter cleric worked well for me

>>720417409
fighter/mage with sword of spiders and web for bg1 and front half of bg2
by the second half of bg2 you should be immune to just about everything with a few spells you can cast in advance, the biggest headache will be keeping your party alive should you choose to use them and rarely reloading when you get debuffed and mazed
still even that's not as bad as it might sound, the whole game just becomes rest abuse and sequencing a few buffs before each fight

>>720417409
Undead Hunter was the smoothest run I've ever done of the game. Berserker lets you cheese a bunch of otherwise difficult fights, though.

i don't know how anyone with experience in bg goes to anything other than F/M with sword of spiders, it legitimately feels like an unintended cheat on Core/Normal and below

>>720417664
>Pools of Radiance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v301ns_xyS8

>>720417664
You may be right but that doesn't change the truth of my statement. Going into BG1 and 2 with the expectation of a tabletop RPG and engaging with it strategically was the original experience even if the actual product was softened for non-autists and newbies to ttrpgs.

>>720418145
Fair enough

Boy sure is crazy how whenever there's a wave of deletions these shitty crpg generals pop up

>>720418297
I don't understand the correlation. qrd?

>>720412074
Lmao bg3 sucks ass larian can't design a game for shit

>>720417409
Kensai dual-classed at level 9 to mage is so fucking broken from what I remember. No armor, duel-wield some fancy swords when things get hairy, but otherwise you just drop nukes on everyone. It's a bit rough at first when you switch over to a mage, but I remember spanking the game after that. These days, I usually role a wizard slayer for some native magic resist and the ability to make mages have the possibility of casting failure. I've also had a ton of fun as a swashbuckler since that's a thief class that can actually throw down in melee.

>>720418358
schizophrenia

>>720418358
He doesn't realize that what he's saying is when jannies clean up shitty culture war and porn threads, actual organic game discussion by nerds and autists manages to appear.

>>720418473
nta but generally designing a game is what Larian IS good at, but they've historically sucked with world-building, story, and characters.
That's why they hired in a shit ton of people to try to fix that issue.
I'm genuinely curious of their next game, since it won't be relying on an outside IP, to see if these newer writers can do well there.

>>720418528
[Logic: Impossible - Success] There is no culture war. There is a war for mating rights, but man is ill-equipped and unprepared to handle it.

>>720418585
Designing telekinesis into your game doesn't mean you're a good game designer

>>720418708
Um

>>720418585
All their games are boring slop

>>720418358
>delete video game discussion
>crappy rpgs generals that are just someone saying their playing a video game for the first time 500 days in a row appear
It's absolutely lunacy to pretend it's organic at this point, this gimmick has played out far too many times. These are the most boring asinine astroturfed threads on this entire board and I'm sure a shitty little janny is nurturing them. If this is what he wants 4chan to be then he might as well just apply to be a reddit janitor.

>>720419389
I think you've lost your mind if a baldur's gate 2 OP is part of a great conspiracy

>720419389
Oh.
It's the "the jannies have a secret conspiracy with the Chinese government" russian anon. Was wondering why the thread was suddenly getting weird out of nowhere.
qrd received

>>720419243
Entitled to your opinion and all, but that's not really the general consensus typically.

>>720419610
I think it's pretty obvious a janitor is trying to turn this into a shitty slav echo chamber like /vrpg/ and /crpgg/ and I think moderation is so short staffed their letting him do whatever he wants. It's obvious these are blatant generals and it's obvious every single thread is dumb bait to farm engagement. What kind of fucking idiot "plays" a bioware game in 2025? Even fortnite is more mentally demanding and less gay.

>>720410091 (OP)
I played BG1 and 2 for the first time in 2018 and 2019 and really enjoyed them both. I'd give it a shot if you already like RPGs and old games.

>>720419883
No it really isn't obvious, nobody posts about HoMM here.

also

>conflating classic bioware with modern bioware

You're a retard. Get help.

>>720419883
brother im as autistic and paranoid as the next guy but you need to stop drinking and get outside for a while

>>720420025
I've watched /vrpg/ get killed the same exact way. It's been the same threads over and over for years now.
>picture of box art off google
>is normalfag rpg good for you?
It's the same thing every single day, some retard makes 20 bioware and bethesda rpgs. If generals aren't allowed these threads definitely shouldn't be allowed. And all bioware games are bad. They've been dumbed down dogshit right from the very start.

>>720419610
he does this in every crpg thread
I asked him what I should playing instead of the pathfinder games a few days ago and he suggested getting into shmups or fighting games instead
I wouldn't engage, he will just keep going

>>720420328
>every crpg thread
Why is there an "every crpg thread" if generals are not allowed

>>720420321
I really hope you sperg out this hard in the 20 thousand gacha threads that pop up hourly as much as you're sperging out in the rare random crpg video game thread that might pop up once in a blue moon

>>720420438
nta, but crpg is a genre. any game with that genre is a crpg thread by definition.
you're literally saying any thread that happens to be about any crpg is a general.
which is a retarded thing to say.

>>720410280
fpbp

Its the peak of the genre. BG3 and Pathfinder have nothing on it

>>720410091 (OP)
I still prefer bg1 to bg2 personally. But yes it's fun.

I hope beamdog pasta anon is doing ok

>>720420636
post one image of a bg1 save more than an hour into the game that i can't reverse search

nobody who's actually played bg1 says this

>>720420473
You make this thread every single day. With the same exact picture of box art. Even gacha threads don't do that. This thread exists to take up space on the catalogue, not to have a discussion. You pretended to be new because rpg fans have an iq of like 30 and can't help responding to the same bait over and over. These threads are full of crossposters from /vg/ and the same techniques are used to keep them bumped, with the same images and schizos.
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/718220909/#q718220909
There are literally thousands of these in the archive. This thread has been made thousands of times. If this isn't a general then nothing is. You people make the same threads every day with the same dumb bait multiple times a day. 4chan would improve 100x over if OP was permanently banned.

>>720420769
>Neverwinter Nights 2: EE
>Aspyr "Entertainment"
damn i miss beamdog so much, like a nigga wouldn't believe

>>720420321
>/vrpg/
I think you're not really examining the problem with that board as broadly as you ought to be.
There actually aren't that many crpgs, its a niche genre. The Interplay suite birthed the golden age companies (Bioware, Black Isle, then after folding: Troika, Obsidian and nXile) and of those Bioware and Troika have the best legacy, but really its mostly Bioware for becoming popular.

Today its really just revolving around Owlcat, Larian and Obsidian with a sometimes release from nXile and Larian is starting to fade into the background.

>>720420794
Don't have it installed, I played it like 2-3 years ago last time. I've played it many times since its release.

>>720420769
I'm not familiar with beamdog pasta anon, but if it has anything to do with how badly Aspyr fumbled the NWN2 Enhanced Edition, then I'd probably understand whatever the pasta is.

>>720420836
I haven't made a single one of these, you weirdo. I'm not OP.

>>720420794
There's a few people with that opinion, it really isn't that wild. The vast majority loved BG because of BG2, but there are some who are more into the even older style of CRPG prior to BG that BG was more like (just in real-time-wit-pause form).
More generational, honestly.

>>720420794
Not that guy but I've got 30 hours on steam plus multiple non steam playthroughs so really its more but I dont give a shit enough to screenshot it.

BG1 is equal to BG2. The games feel quite different and which one is better is just personal taste.

One thing that is definitely worse about 2 is the lack of companions due to each one having a personality, quest and dialogue that companions in 1 never had. So because of that there arent even enough characters to have a full party if youre evil.

>>720420910
>Today its really just revolving around Owlcat, Larian and Obsidian with a sometimes release from nXile and Larian is starting to fade into the background.
There are over a hundred rpgs released every year. Rpgwatch even keeps a list of them, both released and upcoming. This is your own personal conclusion from sitting in a retarded echo chamber that should have been deleted ages ago. If this is all you think rpgs are, if they are that dead, then even a monthly thread isn't justifiable. There's no reason to have multiple threads on baby's first rpgs every day like they're God's gift to video games. And convenient you're sweeping bg3 under the rug, that's ones a little too popular and not codex approved, eh?

>>720421031
>>720421118
the first hour or so is constantly reloading on any difficulty that isn't Easy for half the class list
there's a good 1/3 of the game you spend just wandering around looking for something to do on a first playthrough and every other playthrough after that try to speed through as quickly as possible because there's no narrative content whatsoever

>>720420836
Every single one of these threads has you coming into it and crying like a bitch. Why do fags on this site hate actual video game discussion to the point of having an autistic screech in all of them. You retards never bitch about games that actually legitimately get spammed here. I can't wait to see what dumbass head canon you got next.

>>720421132
>hundred rpgs released every year
Can you list some of them? Bonus if they're worth playing and not tumblrcore indieslop.

>>720420836
Wannabe janny over here

>>720417409
For your first time, fighter/thief dualclass for the versatility. Bring Keldorn, Aerie, Edwin, Korgan, and Viconia. Build your character to dual-wield, build Keldorn as a tank, Korgan to be a bruiser with throwing axes, Edwin and Aerie as your main offensive magic users, and Viconia as support/healing. You especially want Keldorn and Viconia in the graveyard and catacombs, and bringing Edwin/Aerie to the Underdark is an absolute necessity if you don't want to get raped by mindflayers. Never underestimate how powerful magic is in this game, always pause after each round to reassess the situation and adapt your tactics. Be smart with your positioning, and keep your AC as low as possible since low AC is better in 2e rules. Hope you enjoy the game, I first played it and BG1 in 2021 and love it much more than the insipid, watered-down, romantasy bullshit that is BG3.

>>720421118
the "enhanced" edition fixed this at least. If you can stomach the new ones though is a different story.


>>720421132
he literally mentioned who made bg3, get a life dude

>>720421260
I'm not really sure why people prefer BG1's random forest zones either, not to mention the insane power ranged weapons have in bg1.

>>720421260
Correct. And that's very similar to very early CRPGs, which some people have a fondness for. Hell, if you think that's bad, play the Pools of Radiance gold box AD&D game.
Obviously BG2 is the more loved among more people, but there are still going to be those who like that old style of CRPG. I personally prefer 2. But I get it.

>>720421260
You sound like a bitch. "wtf I can lose!? This isnt supposed to happen!"

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being able to lose so you have to reload. Its ok to personally just not like the game but to say the game is bad because of that instead of it just being your opinion is retarded.

Wandering around is called adventuring. Its fun in real life, its fun in games too. Games like space engine are entirely just that alone.

>>720421283
>tumblrcore indieslop
Do you want to play a movie or do you want to play a video game? You're already making imaginary culture war goal posts. I've told you exactly where to go to find the list. If you actually care about rpgs then figure it out for yourself and make a real thread instead of posting the same stupid shit over and over every day for over 5 years. Like I can tell it's the same person because it's the same hyper specific dated and dead games every day. Expeditions Rome is another one that gets spammed on /vrpg/ every day. No one likes or cares about that game, it's a terrible game and made right before the company folded and became a mobile developer but it gets threads constantly. No one cares about shadowrun. No one cares about dragon age. All of this mediocre crap is long dead and forgotten. These threads may as well be an avatar at this point. Imagine going on like this for years never growing or learning anything.

>>720421372
>Tell Neera to go away
>Dont click on the other guys
Ignored

Is it possible to play this in turn-based mode without rtwp? Because I fucking hate rtwp

A mod, anything?

>>720421568
>can't name any of the hundreds of releases

>>720421572
Neera's not even one of the evil aligned characters though.

>>720421613
No. Go play a different game.

>>720421626
This isn't a discussion. I'm not spoonfeeding you. Go to reddit if you want to be spoonfed.

>>720421613
There's an option to autopause after each round of combat, not "perfect" for what you're looking for but it at least greatly lessens the mental pressure of RTWP. I'd recommend using that at first if you're new to RTWP and turning it off if/when you get more comfortable, you can pause at any time during combat anyway, it's just there to help you divide combat into rounds more easily

>>720421626
>>720421679
I told you it was the same guy and not to engage
I asked him to name 5 better games to play than pathfinder in a pathfinder thread
first he said he wouldn't spoonfeed me
then he suggested playing fighting games and shmups
he's a shitposter he has no real opinion
the best thing he could do is get a trip so we could filter him, he posts in LITERALLY every thread about a crpg

>>720421613
Unfortunately no.
Best you can do is turn on Auto-pause and set it to active every "round" (roughly 6 seconds) which is what would encompass a full "turn".

>>720421613
Don't listen to gatekeeping autistic faggots like >>720421673 either, play the game however you want. Unemployed retards should have no bearing on how you enjoy a game you bought with your own money

>>720421875
it literally doesn't have a real turn based option, instead of forcing himself to play a game he hates for stupid reasons he should find a game that actually appeals to him

>>720421613
Why do you hate rtwp? How often do you have challenging encounters that you need to micromanage every non-caster?

>>720422025
nta, but I sort of get it.
the only reason I ever was "okay" with it before was due for my desire to play Baldur's Gate.

I was turned off from Pathfinder Kingmaker for the longest time because I kept getting annoyed with it after playing it for some time, but after turn-based mode was introduced, game was FAR more fun and I completed it (then eventually moved on towards WotR).

I'm currently waiting on Pillars of Eternity 1 to get that Turn-based mode patch they talked about earlier this year. That's another I haven't finished.

>>720410091 (OP)
No. The 90's were big on "simulation" and they were trying to simulate a tabletop dnd game. This was when dnd mechanics were at their most byzantine. The gameplay is mostly understanding the estoterics of AD&D 2e. The game does a very poor job at explaining these mechanics as well (lower armor value=better, is a famous example).
The story has really cool moments interspersed by countless hours of shit nobody could care about. The characters and companions are way cooler than modern ones because fantasy was written by imaginative fantasy nerds instead of subversive art hoes.
I just can't recommend it as an actual game in 2025. The people telling you to play it are nostalgic or charmed by its "classic" status. Play the first level. It throws you right in and it's one of the better sequences. If you can't stand prearranging everything based on esoteric out of game knowledge, quit because that shit only gets worse as you get higher level.

>>720421613
RTP is so good, though. Personally I find it much better than turn based.
You can pause, decide what each character will do, unpause, see if things are going well, pause, run away if necessary... plus all the cheese it allows with it, too.

>>720422306
I like both turn-based and RTwP. There's a lot of encounters in Kingmaker that are generic trash that if you played through them all turn-based the game would turn into a boring slog. I'm playing it right now, in fact, and just had two consecutive random bandit encounters while travelling that were identical and trivial. I'm not getting anything out of engaging with those encounters in TB mode.

Boss fights and narrative encounters on the other hand, yeah I go full TB and enjoy strategizing and getting granular with all the actions and fully immersing in a 'tabletop' experience, but for me to understand the hard 'no RTwP' stance I'd have to have a crpg that has no meaningless trash fights in it, where every encounter was engaging and worthwhile.

>>720410091 (OP)
If you're into CRPGs at all, absolutely, it hardly gets any better the Baldur's Gate duology.

>>720422439
>The game does a very poor job at explaining these mechanics as well (lower armor value=better, is a famous example).
You look at the number while naked, then you look at the number when you put armor on, this is not hard to understand.

>>720422439
BG1 was not at all an attempt to simulate a tabletop dnd game. It was trying to merge the at-the-time popular RTS-elements by making it real-time with pause with classic CRPGs.
Earlier AD&D video games were much more similar to a simulation of tabletop dnd.

>>720422497
>There's a lot of encounters in Kingmaker that are generic trash that if you played through them all turn-based the game would turn into a boring slog.
That's actually true, and I DO switch it to real-time during the trash fights with a million mobs (since it's largely auto-attack anyway). But any other encounter I put it right back into turn-based.

Early to mid game BG2 was fun.
BG1, late game BG2, and Throne of Baahl was unfun.

>>720422642
They're saying it's not naturally intuitive, and that is true.
If AC never could get below 0, it largely would've been fine. But it does. Main reason it even works like that because D&D war originally based on at-the-time miniature war games, and armor was based on how those handled it.
Yes, when you understand it, it's easy. But it's not naturally intuitive.

>>720422792
I'm of the opinion, that, despite loving BG1 and 2, ToB is just blatantly kind of bad.
I don't even bother with it when I do playthroughs of the series anymore.

>>720422910
I got fairly fed up with it once every no-name mage started to cast time stop.

>>720410280
this

>>720422863
It's not intuitive, I know, everyone expects numbers to go up, but it's a very simple reversal after one easy test, you just have to trust that the interface isn't bugged. I get that's a tall order in 2025 when developers can fuck up very simple shit, but Baldur's Gate is a well put together game, the only real bugs in it are humorous engine exploits like item duplication and integer overflowing your stats, which the enhanced edition "fixed".

I played the original release versions on its many discs when I was 10 years old and figured it out just fine. I'm sorry, but if I could figure it out as a dumbass kid and someone else can't when they're clear into their 20s, they really are just retarded and shouldn't be playing autistic numbers games. Baldur's Gate 3 is more their speed, because 5E was made for them.

>>720422910
I can understand kind of being burnt out by the time you get to the actual campaign part of ToB, but Watcher's Keep and HLAs during SoA alone makes it worth it.

every day I find new ways to hate reddit and the fact they dominate the first results on google for every fucking thing
https://www.reddit.com/r/CRPG/comments/1n01koq/is_baldurs_gate_ii_a_good_entry_game_for_a_crpg/

>>720423223
Internet access without nuking your phone line was a mistake

>>720423106
It's not a matter of "figuring it out", I did as well wit the tabletop game.
It's a matter of "there is zero reason to do it this way and nothing to gain, might as well make the math work the same way in a more intuitive manner", y'know?
If it worked towards something mechanically interesting or for good gameplay, I'd get it, but complexity simply for complexity's sake is kind of silly.

>>720423314
The issue is that you're making this out to be a bigger problem than it is. Number higher with armor off, number lower with armor on, therefore lower number better.

>>720410091 (OP)
No, it's outdated as fuck

>>720423382
Yes, I know. I personally don't mind it.
I'm simply saying there is zero reason to do that going forward. A game is not "better" for having it.
3e forward changing it was the correct move.

>>720410091 (OP)
Do yourself a favor and play either the Sorcerer or Cavalier. Game is almost custom made for those two classes.

>>720423223
Whats wrong with that thread though? They recommend he starts with bg1, which is good advice.

>>720423485
>I'm simply saying there is zero reason to do that going forward
There is zero reason to have Celcius and Farenheit go into the negatives to express temperatures, but we do that, my god, now that I think about it, our entire common measurement system for temperature is unintuitive, we should all change to Kelvin immediately.

>>720423223
Reddit
>is bg2 good for beginners?
>no it's the second half of a two part game, play the beginning first. It's very easy.
Abib
>I HAVE TO MAKE 300 THREADS A DAY ABOUT HOW MUCH I LIKE BIOSLOP AND ITS THE MOST COMPLEX GAME EVER. BE SURE TO DOWNLOAD THESE INCEST MODS WRITTEN BY FAT GOTHIC LESBIANS, ONLY BIOWARE AND OWLCAT EXIST AND IM GALAXY BRAINED FOR PREBUFFING. CASTING BREACH ON A DRAGON IS THE DEEPEST SHIT EVER, PURE GAMING.

What's the problem here?

>>720410280
They're very different games despite the name.

>>720417409
If it's still broken, a ranger/cleric dual wielding flails had good attack and full access to both the cleric and druid spell lists as well as the best armors.

>>720410091 (OP)
both 1 and 2 are worth playing yeah, absolute classics in the CRPG genre

>>720423556
Probably.
But we're as a people largely too lazy to adjust. Also it would require a lot of retro-fitting old stuff to the new standard.

Luckily with tabletop and video games, it works fine adjusting to a more intuitive model moving forward since you don't have to worry about the prior edition.

>>720423595
I wouldn't say BG1 is easy to be honest, it can actually be pretty punishing at the start because you don't have as many toys in terms of casting, once you figure out Sleep works on most encounters though, you just blow through the game.

>>720410280
I can agree generally but BG3's problem solving potential on a sandbox level is unmatched in the genre. it's basically an immersive sim.

>>720423528
I was gonna start with bg2, so should I start with 1 instead?

>>720410091 (OP)
it wasnt worth playing 20 years ago

>>720423680
>No. The 90's were big on "simulation" and they were trying to simulate a tabletop dnd game. This was when dnd mechanics were at their most byzantine. The gameplay is mostly understanding the estoterics of AD&D 2e. The game does a very poor job at explaining these mechanics as well (lower armor value=better, is a famous example).
You don't think the game is worth playing because it's "unintuitive", you can't get away from that. There's nothing wrong with the system, it's very easy to learn if you have a brain, so your biggest complain means fucking squat.

>>720423745
>You don't think the game is worth playing because it's "unintuitive"
I never said that. What are you talking about?

>>720423382
Played BG1 earlier.
>first retro game in a long time
>had to quit tutorial because I picked the wrong class
>everything feels unintuitive
>bit surprised at how little you can interact with companions (the qt just calls me a queer when I click her)
>makes sense considering how early it was and they hadn't learned how to string people like me along
>random assassin wiped my team at an inn and I'm not sure if it's my fault
It's very different. Makes me feel like my brain is melting

>>720423767
>No. The 90's were big on "simulation" and they were trying to simulate a tabletop dnd game. This was when dnd mechanics were at their most byzantine. The gameplay is mostly understanding the estoterics of AD&D 2e. The game does a very poor job at explaining these mechanics as well (lower armor value=better, is a famous example).
Yes. Yes you did.

>>720423786
>>720423382
Didn't mean to reply

>>720423826
No I did not.
Where did I say that?
I started right here:
>>720422863

So again, where did I say that?

>>720421613
you do NOT want to play BG1 and 2 entirely turn based, there's so many combat encounters and many of them can just be bulldozed with your martials that you'd just be dragging out the process entirely too much

>>720423708
I think so, you load in your character from bg1 into bg2, it's a continuation of the story.

If you hate bg1 then fine jump to bg2 and see if you like it better.

>>720423693
>I wouldn't say BG1 is easy to be honest
Bioware games are designed for people who never played a video game before. You have to be severely mentally retarded to struggle with them.

>>720423920
Yeah, the actual encounter design is shit for like 90% of fights.
Its just balls of enemies, and if you are lucky you might get archers in the back.

>>720422439
>>720423314
>>720423382
The logic is no that complicated, but i remember in some old forums some people used to have problems understanding it, too.

>THAC0 = Trying to Hit Armor Category Zero.
This means that, if you have, for example, a THAC0 of 20, you'd need a 20 on a dice roll to hit someone with an Armor Category of zero. If you had a 15, you'd need a 15 to hit an AC of zero, etc.
You pick your THAC0 minus the AC of the target, and the result is how much you need on a dice roll to hit that target.
Therefore, the lower your THAC0, the better, and the lower your AC, the better, too.

For example, if your THAC0 is 10, and you are trying to hit someone with -3 AC, you'd do 10-(-3), obtaining a result of 13, therefore you need 13 or more in a dice roll to hit.

>>720423934
It's also important to note that BG2 makes a LOT of assumptions and possible "retconning" to make the start of BG2 make sense, since they begin to put more focus into character stories, something they weren't as concerned about in BG1.
So someone just needs to be prepared to get over that hump so it doesn't surprise them too much.

>>720423786
There's not much in the way of party banter in BG1. There's a lot more in BG2, but it'll still be a lot less than modern games. Don't do melee in the beginning of the game unless you're a fighter or something. There are two guards at the bottom of the inn that'll help you out if you lure the assassin dude near them. Also, bumrush him so he can't finish casting horror.

>>720423708
yeah, the start is a little rough because low level AD&D characters are dogshit but once you get into the swing of things it is a pretty fun game. having the experience of playing BG1 enhances 2 mechanically as you have proper context for what you could do at level 1, all the way up to the end of 2 when you're decked the fuck out in amazing gear and can demolish most foes with ease.

>>720422025
I want games like this which use tabletop systems to play like a tabletop game, simple as

>>720424016
THAC0 is "to hit armor class 0"

>>720424024
One way to make that slightly less of a problem is to bring the "canon" party, which would be Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc, Dynaheir and Imoen.

>>720423786
It'll take some getting used to if you're only familiar with the last 20 years of gaming, before that, you really were expected to read the manual and Baldur's Gate's manual is pretty fat, which I assume you don't have. My suggestion to you is to make at least one other party member using the multiplayer exploit or the Enhanced Edition's built in feature for that, and be sure you're rolling a high minimum stat block for character creation because the assignable points you get does fluctuate based on the roll results.

>>720422642
Because you already know how AD&D 2e works. Nothing else works like this. This is just one famous example, there are many cases of needing to understand mechanics that you wouldn't understand without out of game research or prior AD&D 2e experience.

>>720422665
I'm aware of what they were thinking. But their fixations are not important to modern people. My point is their adherence to simulation, knowingly or not, creates a slow, cumbersome, tedious, streaky, and confusing experience. Everyone gushes over bg2's legacy, but nobody replays it for this exact reason. It's a slog. It's not a good game for people who aren't already emotionally attached to it, regardless of its sometimes very cool characters, voice acting, story, etc.

>>720424016
This is my case in point. This is one mechanic. There are a million mechanics. If you're familiar with adaptability in DS2, imagine a game with 1000 things like that, but you control a whole party so even more is happening at once.

>>720424016
>remember in some old forums some people used to have problems understanding it
Those people didn't read the manual, I remember seeing a lot of it too, and it always came down to "Oh I haven't read the manual yet :)"

>>720424113
Yeah mb, I didn't remember how it was in english, I was attempting to free-translate based on the rulebook in my own language from way back in the day. You get the idea though.

>>720424152
I feel like most will roll that party makeup anyway as the main story directs you into Jaheria and Khalid, Imoen joins you basically immediately and Minsc is pretty out in the open in the first proper town of the game. you have to metagame or just outright ignore the plot events of the start to miss Jaheria Khalid and Imoen at the very least

>>720424235
>nobody replays it
LMFAO

>>720423106
>a very simple reversal after one easy test
You should not have to isolate and individually test mechanics in a video game to reverse engineer the logic. The fact that we're even having this conversation proves it's a problem. The fact that they changed it in later editions proves even they realized it was a bad decision.

>>720424235
>Because you already know how AD&D 2e works
At the time, it was my first experience with tabletop systems full stop. Still figured it out fine at ten years old. Fuck you kids are god damn retarded these days, but I guess that's not your fault.

>>720424417
>You should not have to isolate and individually test mechanics in a video game to reverse engineer the logic
And you don't, you can find it explained to you in the manual. That's just what I did because I didn't read the manual all the way.
>you shouldn't have to read the manual
Tutorials are just game manuals transposed into the game itself.

>website where a lot of middle-aged autists hang out
>most of them grew up with these old autistic games
>after many years, bizarrely a new entry into a classic crpg series is released, but its much different in tone, aesthetic and gameplay
>Obvious clash of nostalgia vs new skinsuit
>Threads made or responded to become fertile ground for trolling
Many anons love bg1 and 2, and have played those games enough to be able to either praise or shit on them depending on their mood. But these threads are just that, its either being nostalgic together or trolls coming in to bait the old autists.

But it is better than the endless gachaslop, waifu threads and shilling that usually saturates the board, at least.

>>720424308
Agreed that you will find them and add them, but you might swap them as you meet new characters.

>>720424419
Dude, nta (but I'm possibly the guy who was discussing this topic with you in the latter half), but I'm likely around your age assuming how close you played around release.
It's not a "retarded kid" thing. It's simply that it's not intuitive.
I'm not saying the game is not worth playing. I'm saying there's zero reason to ever keep that system moving forward when you can accomplish the exact same thing in an intuitive manner.
Play BG1/2. But there would be zero reason for any game past it to keep using that system. It's why 3rd edition switched it up.

>>720424501
I'll take gachaslop over reddit/twitter political bait screenshots. At least gacha is tangentially a game.

>>720424235
>Because you already know how AD&D 2e works
nta, I did not know how it worked when I first played the games before BG3 released and I figured it out quite quickly. Didn't have the physical manuals to browse either, as I played the EE (though they do come with digital manuals which I could've consulted if I had any trouble)
>not wearing armor number goes up, wearing heavier and heavier armor number goes down
>lower number = more armored
The biggest issue for me was vampires actually, as I did not understand how Negative Plane Protection worked and that it would prevent their level draining effect because I just didn't read what the spell did.

>>720424501
Man, I loved BG1 and 2 (ToB is trash in my opinion, though).
I also love BG3.
I USED to love the Gold Box AD&D games back in the day and have fond memories, but even those are a bit too much for me nowadays (not in a "I don't understand it" way, but in a "so unnecessarily clunky and hindered by old design" way).
At least BG1/2 are still playable.

Not everyone who played the older games hate the newer games.

>>720424634
>gachaslop over reddit/twitter political bait screenshots
I'll strongly prefer the removal of both

>>720424607
>I'm likely around your age assuming how close you played around release. It's not a "retarded kid" thing. It's simply that it's not intuitive.
And as the original anon said, not worth playing the game over? Really?

>>720424686
I remembered my AD&D table used to houserule how vampire negative energy worked, since it was weird and cumbersome (for us at the time) but we loved fighting vampires. Don't recall what the actual house rule was though.

>>720424501
That's exactly it, yeah.
It brings me joy to see other oldfags discussing and praising it, as does seeing new players at least trying to play it as well (though most will likely quit because they probably expect some shit like BG3).

It is mostly a genuine game discussion at least, instead of the usual shit that permeates these boards nowadays.

>>720424817
>And as the original anon said, not worth playing the game over? Really?
I never said that at all. In fact, in the post you literally just replied to, I stated to still play it. But no game past it should use that system again because there's zero good reason to do so.

>>720412074
Yes it is.
BG3 feels like a cheap porn parody.

BG1 and 2 would be better with better encounter design like BG3 has.

>>720424686
SoA was really bad with vampires and doesn't give you a lot of reliable options for protecting you from level drain effects that early into the game. You get the amulet if you pick the shadow thieves and that's it unless you drop by a temple and burn money on scrolls, and you should really be saving protection from undead for Kangaxx. Turn Undead helps a lot though, turn Anomen into a tank, give him the amulet and turn on protection.

>>720424878
By arguing against me, who took issue about what he said, I assumed you were taking his side in the argument. It's not intuitive, fine, but it's easy to figure out anyway by testing, reading or asking, regardless, is this really a reason to not recommend the game?

>>720424480
You tried to pre-empt the obvious answer because you know your own reasoning wouldn't convince anyone. This convoluted clunkiness would not be appealing to a modern gamer just picking this up.

>>720424686
>as I did not understand how Negative Plane Protection worked
As I said initially, there are so many things like this. It's not the only reason I wouldn't recommend the game to a new person. It seems to be the most controversial one.

>>720424817
I am that anon. There are plenty of other issues too. I mentioned a few. The general speed of the game, the huge dead areas of nothing interesting happening. But I think you guys are taking for granted how invested/engaged/nostalgic you have to be in a game in order to "put up with" a bunch of shit. They're not bad games, I just don't think they're worth playing for the uninvested so many years later. I think they'll drop it in a few hours. People are not gonna sit down and read the manual/google for 18 hours to reverse engineer 30 year old tabletop mechanics before just playing through an rpg. They're gonna buy another one on steam instead.

>>720425096
On it's own, no. But taken as a whole with all the other strange 2nd edition curiousness, I can SEE why someone would have that viewpoint. I don't agree with it, but I get why someone would believe that.
It's harder for me to judge how much a newer play would care to mess with it, because I'm biased by familiarity since I played it as a kid when it was brand new, and in comparison to other games of that time.
With CRPGs with less convoluted systems out nowadays, would a modern player bother? I don't know. I personally would say it's worth it, but again, don't know how much my personal bias plays into that.
I don't think younger folk are "stupid" for not wanting to mess with it. I just fessed up in another post how I wont' really bother with Gold Box-era AD&D games anymore, despite liking them when I was younger. So that's my line. I don't know where others' lines are.

>>720425128
>This convoluted clunkiness would not be appealing to a modern gamer just picking this up.
Oh no, the old game is LE CLUNKY and doesn't have the last ~25 years of advancements in gaming built around appealing to the lowest common denominator. Okay, if that's a dealbreaker for people, then fine I guess.
>The general speed of the game, the huge dead areas of nothing interesting happening.
Didn't engage with these because these are subjective arguments, it's pointless to argue against your own personal tastes in game pacing, doing so assumes I can change your mind.
>People are not gonna sit down and read the manual/google for 18 hours to reverse engineer 30 year old tabletop mechanics before just playing through an rpg
I have literally seen the same people you're talking about sit down and theorycraft optimal meta for modern video games, doing it for an old one is not beyond them but for "old game" giving them the ick for whatever reason.

>>720424859
It's happens very rarely, but it's one of the few reasons I still even bother with /v/ despite how shit it's gotten over the years.
Every great once in awhile, you find some people who still love some of this old shit.

>>720424958
fuck you man

I'm coming from planescape torment and fallout 1 and 2

How different is this game from those three?

>>720426028
Improved version of Planescape essentially.

>>720424501
>But it is better than the endless gachaslop, waifu threads and shilling that usually saturates the board, at least.
It unironically isn't, there is nothing sadder than jerking off old shitty games for little kids. This board is regressing, you have people praising the Xbox 360 and shit now. This is the absolute worst thing that could happen to this board and it will not survive at this rate. You could have picked any old game to play and you always pick the easiest most braindead boring casual ones. This board will die like this.

>>720425405
>Oh no, the old game is LE CLUNKY and doesn't have
3rd edition came out the same year and cleaned up many of these issues. Nwn came out 2 years later on 3.5 and doesn't have most of these problems. That said, yes. The question was "is it worth playing in 2025" and my answer is no, it's outdated.
>Didn't engage with these
You did, just passive aggressively. But yes, committing huge parts of the runtime to blindly groping around the countryside or a city with vaguely construed objectives for most of the runtime, between some genuinely good setpieces, is less appealing in a world where there's hundreds of other rpg's to play.
>for whatever reason
You should try to find out what that reason is instead of reflexively invalidating it. It basically boils down to those games being more fun to play. For the exact reasons I've been outlining in this thread. I like BG1 in particular, but 1 and especially 2 are genuinely a slog. And I'm in no hurry to replay them even when the mood strikes me, because I don't want to sift through 600 scrolls in a giant inventory anymore, or sift through 30 year old archive material to figure out how negative plane protection works, in order to understand basic mechanics or make basic gameplay decisions.

>>720426123
post your top 10 games

>>720426076
that's good to know, I loved planescape

>>720426123
I'm sure it will Chicken Little.

>>720426164
Mushihimesame Futari Black Label
Marvel vs Capcom 2
Dodonpachi Daioujou Black Label
Umihara Kawase Shun
Spelunky 2
Pizza Tower
Unity of Command 2
OpenTTD
Neon White
Alien vs Predator

>>720426131
>Nwn came out 2 years later on 3.5 and doesn't have most of these problems
3rd edition. NWN was just 3rd.
NWN2 was 3.5

>>720426350
>pizza tower
>spelunky 2
YWNBAW

>>720426345
4chan is losing 150k per day every year, with no sign of slowing down. If anything it's accelerating and at this rate it has three years tops. RPG codex exhibited the same behavior and now their forum gets like a post an hour now.

>>720426435
>150k
*posts

>>720426435
Ok.

>>720426131
>no, it's outdated
With this line of reasoning, you could say 3.5e is outdated compared to 5e, so he's better off just playing BG3.
>just passive aggressively
It's only passive aggressive if you believe your opinions on that matter are objective, and you should know they're not. That is my genuine opinion on the matter, I can't convince you away from your held opinions on game pacing and I'm not going to try. Faggots attempting to impose their tastes on others is far too common here.
>You should try to find out what that reason is instead of reflexively invalidating it
Schizo accusation, that is not what I was doing, I was acknowledging that there are many reasons that any given individual could be turned away from a game. Boiling it down to one reason that I arbitrarily pick out is a stupid thing to do.
>I like BG1 in particular, but 1 and especially 2 are genuinely a slog. And I'm in no hurry to replay them even when the mood strikes me, because I don't want to sift through 600 scrolls in a giant inventory anymore, or sift through 30 year old archive material to figure out how negative plane protection works, in order to understand basic mechanics or make basic gameplay decisions.
This is mostly hyperbole, you can't even have 600 scrolls in your inventory at once, even with every scroll case in the game and would not be greatly different from future games even if you could, negative plane protection is as simple as casting a cleric spell or wearing an item, neither of which are vastly different from future games either, and most of AD&D 2E's peculiarities are entirely automated away from player concern.

So what, exactly, is the problem you have?

>>720426123
Cheap bait but I'll bite a little.
I didn't make this thread, I just observed what was going on and stated my preference.
Would I also like discussion of other classics I enjoy? Sure if its organic and real and not forced, which maybe is your argument if I'm to take you honestly and not as a troll.

How about someone make a Planescape Torment thread that doesn't turn into trolling that people who grew up with it consider it one of the greatest narratives? Like an honest Planescape Torment thread that actually discusses the characters, that goes into Dak'kon's philosophy and Zerthimon.

Or maybe a thread about Arcanum, how at the time steampunk was growing as a fad amongst hipsters especially and that likely was the real impetus behind the magic vs technology aspect of that setting? Instead of just endless baiting and trolling.

Oh, what about a Jade Empire thread, those never pop up and it was from Bioware's height too.

No, let's just have another shill thread for the newest slop, another gacha thread with some generic anime girl, interchangeable with the three thousand other generic anime girls. That's actually what makes video game discussion deep and worthwhile.

>>720426131
Inventory management/looting a bunch of garbage is soooooo much worse in bg3 than it is in 1/2 though?

>>720426350
>Futanari
Stopped reading there

>>720426507
Okay what? You're wrong and you people are boring parasites that no one wants to be around and you'll flood the board with diarrhea while massaging your ego. You're not superior to anyone and even uma musume is an exponentially more complex game than bg2. The reference manual alone is like 110 pages long. That's how shitty these games are, even gacha is an objective improvement, and when I look at those threads I see people learning things whereas when I look at these threads I see people struggling with the same basic shit over and over and never growing. BG2 is an extremely dumb game and EE does all the math for you. Doesn't take a genius to know green number means good and all that's left is ivory tower design where you need to know the 5% of spells that are actually useful. It's a nitwit game and I'd recommend people do not waste their time playing it. Play literally anything else but this brainrot genre, it ruins everything it comes in contact with.

>>720426710
Refer to >>720426507 for any further replies you're needing, if you need it.
I'm going to go ahead and continue with other anons here.

>Schizoid babble
>"Okay"
>Schizoid meltdown

>>720426649
NTA, but how so? I found it incredibly easy in BG3, and less of a nuisance because you didn't have to find bags/containers just to have gems not take an entire slot of your inventory.

>>720426649
This is an insane take

>>720426770
>other anons here.
You've been talking to the same 3 shitty subhumans for years with the same shitty baits for years.
>I'm a retard, how do i shot web
Other 2 retards
>here's how you shotted web
>wow we're such hardcore gamers
That's every single rpg thread ever made. You can't play anything else because you've let the elasticity of your brain decay by engaging in what is essentially incredible passive WEGs and power fantasies. You don't have the motor control or drive to learn required to play any other genre. You'll blame it on your age but the truth is you're poisoning yourself.

>>720426710
Anon this website has been "dying" since 2005. There are people browsing this place who weren't even born when the servers first went online. 4chan is not going anywhere, and I bet what you consider to be 4chan's peak was what some other anon considered the absolute worst state it was ever in.

>>720426963
>Anon this website has been "dying" since 2005
No it's been dying as of 2016 when your kind got comfy here and is now back down to 2009 levels of activity. It objectively and measuredly can't have been dying since 2005 and losing 33% of your activity yearly is not normal for any community.

>>720426868
There's so many items, and every room/area has like 5 billion containers. It's my biggest gripe with the game.

In bg1/2 you hold alt and see the few things you can interact with in every place, it's quick and doesn't take up most the time like it does in bg3.

>>720427041
>I bet what you consider to be 4chan's peak was what some other anon considered the absolute worst state it was ever in.
Damn, could have won money on that one.

>>720426579
>With this line of reasoning, you could say 3.5e is outdated compared to 5e, so he's better off just playing BG3.
nta, but not so much. With the difference between 3.5 vs 5e, it's more a matter of how much bloated/simplified one is compared to the other, and which you prefer. Neither are really much in the way of being convoluted, and are both relatively intuitive.
It's more a matter of how "cruncy" you prefer your underlying RPG system to be.

This is different than 2nd edition, which is more "simple" (except in spellcasting) but convoluted due to unnecessarily odd ways of handling simple scenarios/math/problems. They're not "bad" necessarily, but very much a product of their roots being from miniature wargames.

You can play a non-convoluted system that's very similar to 2nd edition. In fact, there's a lot of OSR-style RPGs that try to mimic 2nd edition AD&D and earlier, but with much more intuitive ways of handling the math and other things.

>>720427172
If you want to be a bitter retard playing casual games go to rpg codex. No reason to ruin this place. You already had your shot with /vrpg/ and big surprise, it dead. You know what people used to say there? If we didn't have 50 bioware and bethesda threads a day the board would be dead. Well now that's all that's left and it's dead. Shocking how that works out. You're the reason /v/ is so bad, not anyone else. Don't you dare blame any one else for what you're directly responsible for. If RPGs were so great that board wouldn't be a dead irredeemable shithole.

>>720427238
>This is different than 2nd edition, which is more "simple" (except in spellcasting) but convoluted due to unnecessarily odd ways of handling simple scenarios/math/problems. They're not "bad" necessarily, but very much a product of their roots being from miniature wargames.
However, it doesn't apply to Baldur's Gate because the vast majority of 2E's math is computer handled.

How the fuck did this thread turn into anons bitching about 4chan? This is what's wrong with /v/. Anons will talk about anything except vidya.

>>720427043
>There's so many items, and every room/area has like 5 billion containers. It's my biggest gripe with the game.
OH, yeah yeah. I get exactly what you're saying, that makes perfect sense.
Not so much the inventory system ITSELF, it's the Ultima-style "you can pick up almost every item"-thing being overwhelming.
I completely get it. I have a friend who has the same issue, they don't like bothering with that and it was their biggest hurdle.

That's fair.

>>720426579
>With this line of reasoning, you could say 3.5e is outdated compared to 5e, so he's better off just playing BG3.
Yes, it would be easier to recommend a modern game to a modern gamer. But even 3-3.5 addresses some of the more glaring issues that make me not recommend BG2.
>It's only passive aggressive if you believe your opinions on that matter are objective
The tone has nothing to do with the objectivity of the statement, but it's not substantive enough to discuss.
>I was acknowledging that there are many reasons that any given individual could be turned away from a game
This is all tangential arguments about the argument. The point is that people are willing to invest that much in modern games because they're more relevant and more fun. Games changed for reasons. These reasons are why I do not recommend BG2.
>This is mostly hyperbole, you can't even have 600 scrolls in your inventory at once.
>negative plane protection is as simple as casting
I'm sorry but you're grasping at straws if you're trying to take "600 scrolls" literally. Or pretending I'm talking about hitting the button to cast the spell, rather than figuring out what it means in the context of a certain game encounter. Also nobody here is arguing that it's complicated because you must do the math, obviously. I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point because you like the game. You can like a game, but still not recommend it to certain people. I would not recommend BG2 to the average 2025 gamer.

>>720427340
>Anons will talk about anything except vidya
You've already made this thread 300 times. There is nothing to talk about. It's just occupying space now and astroturfing the same stupid bullshit.

>>720427313
It's a hurdle because if they don't understand the underlying system, it's more difficult to understand what items are better or worse.

>>720427340
You don't get it, 20XX ruined everything and the site was better when I personally joined up. It's just schizo paranoia man, typical for anonymous imageboards because this fucking place is a magnet for 'em.

>>720427340
It's just one dude. /v/ is filled with schizos unfortunately.
Apparently there's one who's super mad about the existence of CRPGs that I wasn't aware of previoiusly.
Just ignore him.

>>720427452
>sword
>sword +1
I wonder which one is better...

>>720427409
Retard

>>720422025
bg3 zoomer tourists think "rtwp" plays like a rts because thats what some bg3 mod does, they don't know there's a wait time between the turns of each character

>>720417856
T:

>>720427507
Different types, anon. Obviously same types with a modifier are more straightforward. Don't be disingenuous.

>>720427519
It's the same exact posts over and over. Nothing but cyclical misery for anyone who gets memed into falling for this bullshit.

>>720427459
wtf? u joined in 20XX newfag? I was on here on Charles Babbage's hypothetical Analytical Engine in 1839. Even I don't have the gall to oldmog people. There's some guys on here who were calculating the binary code for Yotsuba Koiwai before the 0 was discovered.

>>720427572
Anon, as someone who loves BG1 and 2, and played them on release, they ARE like RTS. In fact, that was a lot of the inspiration for making it the way it is (real time with pause) since it was a very popular genre at the time.
Also, RTS attack for units weren't typically instantaneous either. There was wait times between each attack modified by speed.

>>720427409
When has this thread been posted before? And why should threads about vidya on the vidya board devolve into how shit 4chan is now? Go bitch about this on r9k or some shit. Better yet, just get off the site.

>>720427340
>>720427501
Yeah, it's sad that it has fallen into this. I don't get how one dude got so paranoid over CRPGs of all things; an endangered genre nowadays.

I really wish we could've had a normal, genuine and preferably somewhat friendly discussion about the game, characters, story, etc.

This one we had before was kinda ok at least. >>720321206

>>720412240
2 > 3 > 1 to anyone that isn't a fucking tard

>>720427397
>I'm sorry but you're grasping at straws if you're trying to take "600 scrolls" literally
I literally just said it was hyperbole, your complaints about inventory management are a non-issue, since your inventory in BG is actually far smaller than later games.
>rather than figuring out what it means in the context of a certain game encounter
It's in the spell description
>This spell affords the caster or the touched creature partial protection from undead monsters with Negative Energy Plane connections (such as vampires), and certain weapons and spells that drain energy levels. The Negative Plane Protection spell opens a channel to the Positive Energy Plane, possibly offsetting the effects of the negative energy attack. A protected creature struck by a negative energy attack is protected against any form of level draining for the duration of the spell. The protected creature suffers only normal Hit Point damage from the attack and does not suffer any drain of experience. This spell cannot be cast on the Negative Energy Plane.
You just have to read

>But even 3-3.5 addresses some of the more glaring issues that make me not recommend BG2.
I have addressed these issues with the exception of your issues with the pacing, which you refuse to elaborate on except to say "nothing happens". I'm arguing with you because you're making a bullshit recommendation based purely upon your low estimation of the modern gamer, which as I've already said, they're not stupid. You had to resort to some smug mumbo jumbo about "engagement" to make it make sense in your head, but it doesn't make sense for anyone else unless you elaborate.

>>720427365
I do agree once you have stuff in your inventory bg3 has the better UI to keep track of it all but it's also necessary because there's so much of it.

>>720427853
I'd have to break it up depending on what we're talking about.

Gameplay:
3 > 2 > 1

Story/Characters:
2 > 3 > 1

All three >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ToB

Even with 1 being below the other 2, I still love replaying through 1 once in awhile

>>720427853
I disagree.
3 doesn't even deserve to be in the same series. It has absolutely nothing to do with the previous ones in style, mechanic or spirit, and it shat on the old lore and characters.
It is a game made by people who had absolutely no love for the series.

That being said, it isn't a -bad- game, technically speaking. it is just an absolutely terrible entry in the series.

>>720427950
How much worse is 1 than the other 2?

>>720427365
>the inventory system ITSELF
...is fucking awful and clunky as shit. Pathfinder and DOS2 have much better inventory system and ui.

>>720428017
>it shat on the old lore and characters.
To be fair, WotC were doing this long before BG3 was even thought of, you should see what they did with the character afterwards. They seem to hate the bhaalspawn saga for some reason.

>>720428026
It's not considerably worse, some would even consider it better.

But 2 has flashier stuff, like romances, more character interactions, more kits, more spells, more enemies, etc. I do find BG1 more authentic and consistent in style, though.

>>720428181
Sometimes simplicity has a charm in itself, bg1 keeps it pretty basic.

>>720410091 (OP)

Yes, I liked BG2 and I played it for the first time this year.

>>720412240

This guy is full of shit. BG1 is entirely skippable and doesn’t compare to 2 or 3. BG2 is when the series really came into its own. I still liked BG1, but BG2 and 3 are vastly better.

With all that said, I think 2 and 3 are tough to compare. 2 has a compelling story and really captures the feeling of a big world. You actually start out in a big city (not Baldur’s Gate) and there are other cities and towns you’ll come across. 2 has great companions. The romance with Viconia is based and canon. 3 also has great companions. And 3 obviously is a massive improvement visually and cinematically. In terms of the world itself, I prefer 2, but you also have to keep in mind that it’s a 25 year-old game. I tend to prefer the characters from 3.

tl;dr play 2, feel free to skip 1.

>>720428239
Have you played 1? Everyone in this thread has told me to play 1 first as it's a direct sequel.

>>720428068
I see people say this but they never articulate why they think so, inventory systems still act pretty much the same as they did in the 90's. If you don't want to play boomer games then just say so, you don't have to make up excuses.

>>720428026
Technically "worse" because of how super swingy things are at the start (by design, since low level 2nd edition AD&D just sort of plays like that), but you can work around that really easy honestly. Companion characters are largely just simple tropes with no deep story associated to them (again, by design largely because this is just how CRPGs were done at the time; I'll talk more on that in a bit). A lot of what makes BG1 so cool is the overall concept behind the story, which is very much a slow burn and takes a bit to get going.

ORIGINALLY BG1 only has basic classes, but now (either via modding the OG or simply playing the Enhanced Edition) this is no longer the case. BG2 class kits were backported into BG1, so you can make a more unique character right from the start.

The biggest drawback is you're not going to get much in the way of party banter outside very superficial. That's because it didn't start doing that until BG2, before which the lead designer had a chat with a Black Isle producer concerning the newly release Final Fantasy 7 where the producer pointed out "their game has better characters than theirs". James Ohlen (the lead designer) bought a copy, played all the way through it, and determined "our game's companions are cardboard cutouts" so he took it as a personal challenge for his team to make more fleshed out party members and try to write in romances (which ended up shaping CRPGs ever since).

Sorry that was a bit long-winded. I don't like really saying BG1 is "worse", but it's a much earlier style and design than BG2.

>>720428239
Depends on what you're looking for. I like the narrative and party interaction in crpgs so I more or less agree with you. But some people just want "2d Skyrim with a group" and for that kind of generic fantasy questing BG1 is pretty singular.

>>720428318
i'm talking about bg3 you tard, but they weren't great in the old games either

>>720428026
If you want advice for bg1 is get ranged weapons on your characters and kite enemies on low levels, like have them chase on character while everyone else shoots with bows/slings. Bows are incredibly powerful in bg1.

>>720428289
BG2 literally starts with you having a party of high level characters with crazy spells and abilities, it assumes you're familiar with all of the games systems and combat, BG1 is pretty much a tutorial for BG2, no other video game sequel has ever done this. It is highly advised to play the first one first. BG1 is also a way better game.

>>720428289
Play BG1 first, Anon is correct in that it's skippable, but BG2 references it a lot. That said, both games were going for different gameplay styles to the point that the only real connection between them is the narrative and AD&D 2E, which is why I think you'll see people telling you to skip BG1 because it's a slower experience than BG2.

>>720428289

I played 1 as well. But you can still safely skip and watch a lore recap on YouTube. Your characters and most of the companions come back in 2, but without giving away too many spoilers, the second one’s story is relatively self-contained. But yes, you are still the same guy you were in 1, and there are some throwbacks and party banter references, a few NPCs that you’ll remember also.

>>720428119
Yeah, I know. I miss TSR, WotC is usually lame, and it got considerably worse after Gary's death.

I fucking hate the BG novel, it's shit and it too has nothing to do with the video games: the story is considerably different, the characters often act nothing like their game counterparts, the main characters is ass.
I don't know why do they keep pushing it as canon. I'm pretty sure the author must be like best friends with some bigwigs in there, for it to be pushed so hard.

>>720428439
BG1 is better because the low levels belie the massive stakes that are actually involved with the story. You, the player, don't even realize just how fucking over your head you are until after Cloakwood, and that could take you a long-ass time to clear with how much bullshit is between Candlekeep and Cloakwood in the first place.

>>720428289
>Have you played 1? Everyone in this thread has told me to play 1 first as it's a direct sequel.
Back in the day, I actually started up 1 and dropped it. I later played 2 borrowing a friend's copy, and the games intro is FAR more interesting and gets you in the heat of things immediately and I could not put the damn game down. I was hooked.
I later went back and played through all of 1 with the knowledge of where it goes with 2, which made my playthrough of 1 that much easier.
So... if you're able to play through 1, that's great, you can have a better overall experience. But dont' feel bad if it isn't working for you, it can be still okay to jump into 2 (even jump back into 1 if you're interested after).

>>720428524
Unless you just spam Sleep, but Cloakwood is about where it starts losing effectiveness anyway.

low-level AD&D is abject misery, no it's not 'comfy', no it's not fun, it's fucking DOGSHIT

>>720428591
YOU WILL SPAM SLEEP AND CLOUDKILL AND YOU WILL FUCKING LIKE IT

>>720428524
i liked bg1 but it was too simple like you have to engage with the combat very little even on hard. haven't played 2 yet though

>>720428289
NTA, but although BG2 is a direct sequel to BG2 the important events of BG1 as very easily to quickly summarize and are done so for you pretty well in the opening area of BG2. I certainly wouldn't recommend skipping it as I think it provides a good prologue and eases you into Ad&d 2nd ed. combat. But some people don't like it because the narrative is far more simplistic and the party members have much less personality. It's absolutely possible to fully enjoy BG2 while skipping BG1.

>>720428239
You are full of shit, 1 is important to give background to the story. It feels much less impactful for the player to simply read he is a bhaalspawn , rather than playing through the whole game and finding it out. Plus you get to know the story of other characters that show up in 2 as well, like Minsc, Imoen, Jaheira, Viconia, etc. If you skip directly to 2, you just don't care as much for any of them.

Plus, it is amazing to carry your character all the way through the saga, importing your save file from 1 all the way to ToB.

BG3 is shit, a typical modern glittery crap designed to attract fools.

bg1 is only good if you consider it as the prologue to bg2

>>720428591
Eh. Just spam arrows and the handful of correct control spells.

>>720428702
>Plus, it is amazing to carry your character all the way through the saga, importing your save file from 1 all the way to ToB.
ah yea i love my core kit paladin being immediately 1uped by keldorn
it really helps make me feel BIG

>>720428496
I mean, let's not completely whitewash TSR. They had their fair share of stupidity, especially under Lorraine Williams. They pretty much killed themselves off and were going bankrupt, which is why they had to sell to WotC in the first place.

Concerning the BG novel: It's not actually canon, in fact the ONLY thing they borrow from it is the assumed name of CHARNAME (and even with that, they largely just sort of gloss over it in BG3, unless you're really paying attention to certain parts).

>>720428729
Command is pretty amazing in bg1

>>720427862
Imma let you go since you've been evading the main point and trying to tunnel vision on quote fragments and verbiage for several posts now. I'm not interested in rerolling the debate topic until you find one where you have a stronger position. BG2 is very ponderous, byzantine, esoteric, and clunky by 2025 standards. It's not "low estimation" because liking that stuff is not a virtue. I recognize they have different expectations. That you think people shouldn't feel that way because it's lesser, isn't relevant.

>>720428761
Walking into a Beholder Cult is not something you should be doing in chapter 2...

>>720428587
>>720428635
I mean, I already loved spamming Sleep at really low-levels because it was absolutely BUSTED in Gold-Box AD&D early levels and ingrained into me.

>>720428702

Minsc, Imoen, Jaheira, Viconia, etc. have practically zero character development in BG1. Imoen occasionally references your childhood, but not in a particularly meaningful way. Jaheira is upset about losing a certain someone. That’s it. 3 is an excellent game and only contrarian fags like (you) claim that the earlier games were vastly better. Your judgment is clouded by nostalgia.

>>720428805
Nothing Insect Swarm and the Shield of Balduran can't fix.

>>720428805
If I'm not mistaken, the highest-rated guide on Gamefaqs for BG2 explicitly has the player's party get ass-raped by the other party in the Sewers and then do the Beholder quest, because the writer presumes that the player will spend over half an hour abusing Potions of Thievery to amass a huge fortune, buy all of the expensive items in the special shop (including the anti-beholder shield), buy all of the spell scrolls, and buy all of the ammo and potions.

>>720428787
>Imma let you go
What you're doing is running away like the intellectual coward that you are and trying to save face while doing it.
>BG2 is very ponderous, byzantine, esoteric, and clunky by 2025 standards
Elaborate. You won't.

>>720417409
the way to cheese the game isn't with a particular build, but with certain items you can get throughout the games, specifically the potions of magic blocking in the first game and the scrolls of magic resist in the second. this is because of the game's main weakness which is that it doesn't really have any tactics. every map is pretty much flat with no elevation differences or terrain mechanics, and non-magic enemies have no abilities that you have to pay attention to. every fight comes down to whether you can deal with the enemy wizard. the expected way is to use your own wizard with magic that counters whatever bullshit magic they throw at you, but if you can just make yourself immune to magic there's nothing they can do to you. you can make both the final boss and the hidden super boss completely impotent with this strategy.

>>720428846
Plus BG2 straight up retcons hard an aspect of Imoen...
I personally don't mind it, but it's a bit jarring and obvious the first time you play it.

>>720428898
Your mental faculties are incapable of processing the enigma of my internal contemplation that necessitates a viscissitude within the current paradigm catholic to the weltanshauung of autoengagement.

>>720428892
That's dumb, you can just pick up any gem drink a potion in inventory, then swap it out for the gem to underflow the gem to an absurd number, which gives you all the money you'll ever need.

>>720428974
pics or it doesnt happen

>>720428998
You need the original, won't work on EE because they fixed that exploit in the engine. Faggots.

>>720428914
Fighter > Berserker > Cloak of Mirroring, let's go!

>>720428846
>Your judgment is clouded by nostalgia.
It's not, I simply know the game has absolutely failed as a sequel, since it has nothing to do with the original games; not mechanically, not aesthetically, not in the story, not in the spirit/vibe, not in the old characters. Nothing.

like I said before, it is not a BAD game strictly speaking, since it is mechanically well-designed and it works for what it wants to do, but it is an abhorrent sequel, clearly made by people who didn't give a crap about the originals, and that annoys me, since i did like the originals.

>>720428998
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYc-SoZShqU
Here you go, it's the easiest fucking shit to do.

>>720429060
HOLY SHIT THAT'S--
>>720429020
cringe

>>720428846
>3 is an excellent game and only contrarian fags like (you) claim that the earlier games were vastly better.
We can prove BG1&2 were better objectively because WotC will no longer be working with Larian after BG3.

>>720429112
NTA, but what the are you talking about that proving something being "objectively better"?
That doesn't make any sense as an argument at all.

>>720429165
If BG3 were good, then why won't WotC let Larian do a sequel?

>>720428974
>>720429060
I remember this. There were other little bugs associated with potion swapping, like being able to use a potion you normally could not.

>>720429112

WOTC sucks and that’s a stupid point to make. BG3 was a HUGE commercial success and I’m sure WOTC would’ve liked to keep the partnership, since Hasbro/WTC wanted Larian to make DLCs and a sequel but Larian turned them down.

>>720429038

Play as the dark urge.

>>720429198
WotC would. In fact, they said "they were happy to wait however long Larian needed" for an eventual new BG.
Larian decided to move on, and while there's definitely a lot of consensus on WHY they decided to move on, it's technically rumor and hearsay. The belief is because WotC was souring relationships, and their huge layoff of employees (which included people from the WotC side who collaborated with Larian for BG3) made them less interested in continuing work (and very shortly after, Larian decided to NOT pursue DLC like they were doing).
Not speaking of what we may personally like better between the 3, BG3 was very much the most financially successful BG.
But that's just successful. What's "better" is purely subjective.

>>720429273
Durge would be the closest thing to something related to the old ones, but even so it doesn't make sense considering the ending in ToB.

Though since the game took the damn novel that nobody cared as an anchor point, as per WotC's instructions/demands, I guess it could make.

Liking anime girls and traditional western hardcore CRPGs at the same time is really rough. There is literally 0% overlap in the audiences.

>>720429489
They didn't take the novel for shit. Only the name of CHARNAME.
Nothing else from the novels is used or referenced for any other official material at all.

WOTC recently has a track record of being pushy and litigious, and trying to control everything. Chances are the popularity of BG3 made Larian look like a golden goose, and WOTC wanted to come in and take control of the company.

>>720429583
That's the common belief, even if Larian is more diplomatic about it.
There's also been rumors of them attempting to weasel Critical Role under themselves (the execs, not the direct D&D designers), but that obviously didn't fly since they were adament about maintaining full control of their setting if they published part of the setting under the official D&D name.

>>720429530
I thought about this before, but I wonder if it'd work, making a game like BG or Planescape with cute anime graphics.

>>720429778
I've wanted something like BG, but with Final Fantasy and FF Tactics-style combat forever.
Wouldn't even be that weird anymore either, since the MMOs (especially 14) have already partially normalized the idea of a Create-a-Character hero being the lead of a Final Fantasy story.

>>720429778
Well, Etrian is just Wizardry with cute anime graphics, so why not?

>>720429583
Or they'll send the fucking no-shit Pinkertons after you...

>>720430026
lol ye I heard about that

>>720429778
My gripe is that the anime style goes hand to hand with infantile writing aimed at their domestic market.
Rance gets a pass because I found it's takes shitting on adventuring cliches' genuinely funny.

>>720410280
No it isn't, at least not in most departments.
>worse music
>more cut content (you have no idea how BG2 was butchered in that regard unless you read into it)
>worse combat system
>story completely disconnected from the Bhaalspawn, you could skip from BG1 into ToB and not miss anything from that storyline
>worse itemization, there are clear and obvious "best in slot" ones for each class
>worse build variety
>worse reactivity
>completely linear quests, there's maybe half a dozen where "evil" choices matter in any way

I'm not going to judge graphics since this is a case of apples to oranges.

>>720430298
>anime style goes hand to hand with infantile writing with one exception
>the exception is fucking rance of all things

>>720428914
>>720417409
>>720429030
Without mods you can beat every single enemy in the game, including the most OP bosses like Kangaax, with a single Druid spell.

I wish Sword Coast Legends didn't suck complete ass.
I love the main theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYVjtQaXl0A

>>720428702
The funny thing is if that you play BG2 while skipping the first game you may actually believe Viconia's bullshit that she's being unfairly persecuted.

>>720410091 (OP)
No.

>>720421342
Not sure why you're suggesting Korgan and Vicona with Keldorn. He will try to kill them for being evil.

>>720430795
explain

>>720430451
Rance has my proper respect for being written in-game as a character who acts like a quicksaving chaotic neutral giggleshit player. Without the quicksaving. Apparently he is supposed to lampoon the endlessly selfless and altruistic jap MCs of the time too. The blobber parts are nothing special.

>>720430026
this really didn't get enough attention
wish they'd sent them to a ranch in Montana or something instead

>>720421470
sometimes i forget how autistic and aggressive this site is b/c everyone just does the pajeet meme thing now when they dislike something

you're a retard tho. there's nothing fun about getting one shot b/c of one bad dice roll when you have 6 hp

>>720431205
holy shit just go the fuck back already

>>720427591
you do this on an evil character because there's only one good evil thief and while i like her, i assume most anons don't because 1. she's a beamdog companion and 2. she's a nvampire

>>720431242
i've been here longer than you and will be here after you're gone

>>720431205
Why have you got the 6hp retard on the front?

>>720431417
jesus you fucking losers haven't even played bg1 on anything other than easy or normal, shut up and let the players talk

>pretend to play a classic game
>have an opinion indicating you know absolutely nothing about said game
tell me more about how having a 10 hp frontliner in chapter 1 of bg1 saves you from one shot kills

Just kite while the rest of your party pelts the enemy with arrows. Works in BG1 atleast.

>>720431504
Coupled with armor and a shield? Your frontliner shouldn't be getting one shot. I would believe it for non-martial classes.

>>720431623
Yeah that's how you do the first two levels at least, sometimes past that against certain enemies like ghouls unless you have a character immune to their paralyze.

>>720431718
>armor and a shield
okay now you're just trolling
or at least i hope so

>>720431623
Just cast sleep

>>720431782
I'm starting to think you're trolling, because there's no way your martial has 6hp and AC bad enough to get one shot.

>>720431623
yeah you can also jimmy stairs but if you're going to play like that then you might as well just cheat engine or mod your hp
anyway pretending bg1 isn't a troubled and archaic product of a time when table top systems weren't balanced for crpg conversions and/or is better than bg2 is silly contrarian shit

>>720431845
you're confusing yourself with your own posts dude

anyway armor and a shield is a stupid response because it doesn't reduce the damage you take on a bad roll, just the likelihood of a bad roll
this is a retarded conversation that only a total newfag who has only played the game once on story mode or some shit would even have, no one who was around 15 years ago would have dared post something like this for fear of public ridicule
y'all are some fake ass fans

>>720431790
You got like one spell slot at lvl 1.
>>720431862
You think real adventurers would fight fair? That's how you end up in an ogres stew. Might aswell not use any crowd control magic either because that's cheating too right?

>>720431205
Sorry buddy but you just fucking suck at videogames.

>>720431935
Shield is good in bg1 though, there's a shit ton of archers and a large shield will make them miss most attacks.

>>720431935
Again, your martial should NOT have 6hp unless you stupidly treated constitution as a dump stat and went with something retarded like dex and charisma instead, or felt you needed more than 12 wisdom or intelligence for whatever reason. Your martials are probably really badly built where you're running into issues with them getting one shot.

If you're not referring to a martial, then it's any other class which really shouldn't be in a position where they're getting hit at all, which would make it a party composition or formation issue.

Or you're just being a hyperbolic little faggot whinging about a game you play badly and blaming it on the game because you feel you can do no wrong.

BG1 and 2 are still okay, they're more rudimentary in a lot of ways and of course you'll have to warp your brain around D&D's original mechanics of THAC0 and how overdesigned Arcane magic was (there's like 10 different dispel magics the difference between them being which order they dispel magics in)
BG1 is harsh. real harsh. Low level D&D is a death bonanza. Everyone gets a Bow or a Sling and enjoys the safety of long range, except the one Warrior you've put in the best armor you've got and sent in as the distraction beacon. AI was very crude, it'll all go for your tank unless he's absolutely SWARMED.

>>720431935

>y’all
>fake ass

Normalize bullying those who talk like niggers