Thread 720656243

You can argue that it's actually a balanced sidegrade, that it "takes skill because you have one less rocket" or whatever you want, but the bottom line is that I simply do not respect Soldiers who use Black Box.

It's called the Black Box because it tells you how the soldier fucked up.

Whats the counter to soldier and demoman?

>>720657291
sniper and pyro

>>720657367
Soldier and Demo literally counter sniper by being able to divebomb them.

Pyro counters in theory but in practice anyone actually experienced with this game knows the reflect mindgame is stacked against pyro. The pyro need experience to even be able to reflect reliably while with that same level of experienced soldier and demo know how to deal with him.

>>720657367
>sniper
decent counter until they get rocket/stickyjumped
>pyro
defeated by shotgun or just jumping to high ground and beating either as pyro is harder than it is for them to kill you

>>720657291
scout

i use black box with the conch for even more healing
keep coping y'all

TF2 classes by power: an objective truth
heavy > soldier > engineer > pyro > demo > medic > scout > sniper > spy

Why did it take so long for people to start noticing how busted heavy is? I've been saying this shit for literally over a decade but it feels like it's only very recently people are starting to acknowledge this.

>>720659397
because hes hard to master and use. he cant move well and gets outmaneuvered all the time

>>720659748
He's actually the easiest class to pub stomp and steamroll with as long as you get a medic. In fact it's the big reason why he's the most common class to cause big steamrolls. Because a sniper or a demo or whatever doing that shit requires some exceptionally good at the game playing the class.

>>720659949
while true you will lose once you fight better teams. they will focus you while your medic will not always heal you.

>>720657291
Scout
>2-3 shots both easily
>Can dodge their projectiles easily
>They are slower outside of blast jumping that you only do when you’re rolling out or going to a higher floor, thus are easier to flank

>>720660264
If by "better teams" you mean "not pubs/casual" you're already leaving the environment that tf2 was meant for.

It's pretty common for medics to focus healing on the heavy. Either because the medic went on the server with the heavy player in the first place or because "heavy + medic" is the big meme.

The real answer is the heavy + medic reigns supreme up until the point the other team gets a competent sniper, or maybe a competent demo. But that's just it. It's two classes anyone can play needing to be countered by classes most people can't.

Why don't pyros use the shotgun more often? it makes up for the shortcomings of the flamethrower in all scenarions including 1v1 a soldier, especially if you use the reserve shooter or panic attack (if close enough)

>>720662208
because it boring and the flamethrower goes far enough

>>720662208
Flares tend to be more popular in case you have a heavy to deal with or need to keep a sniper in check. Flares can also be good for dealing with soldier as you can keep your distance knowing you'll do far more damage to the soldier than the soldier will do to you with his shotgun.

I'm pretty sure heavy aside though the shotguns are actually considered pyro's meta. But as >>720662547 says, shit's also boring.

>>720658117
Inconceivably evil image

>>720657291
>Scout can dodge the projectiles
>Pyro can reflect the projectiles
>Engineer can delete the projectiles with SC
>Medic can resist the projectiles with Vacc
>Sniper can headshot them from far away
>Spy can backstab them from behind
About the only class that really fucked by them is Heavy.

>>720657291
There is none since Valve has notoriously given harsh nerfs to anything that can even remotely counter them. They've made it very clear that if you don't play Soldier or Demo, they don't want you to play the game. It's blatant favoritism, and makes playing any of the other 7 classes a downright demoralizing and miserable experience.

>>720657291
get good with scout and you can wipe your ass with explosive classes.

>>720657291
soldier and demoman

>>720663681
get a load of this tranny shitter, back to spamming scorch shot and being the dedicated heal slut of our team, faggot.

>>720659397
>why did it take so long
>people were immediately recognizing the power creep as soon as the 119th update buffed the fuck out of him
the simple fact of the matter is that he has a lot of health and doesn't need to reload. that's literally all there is to it. You can eventually overwhelm a demoman or soldier by throwing bodies at them, but a heavy will just keep mulching people
he's not OP, it's just that throwing multiple walls of 300 health at the cart at the same time usually overwhelms most pubs.

>>720663786
>Want to actually improve instead of mindlessly spamming explosives with massive splash
>hurr you're just a tranny shitter
And people really wonder why I hate quite literally everyone I ever meet as a direct result of TF2. This is the only multiplayer game I've ever seen where you're actively looked down upon for wanting to improve.

>>720656243 (OP)
That's fine. I'm not dominating you just so that you can respect me.

>>720663681
>scout
>never nerfed
>sniper
>never nerfed
>pyro
>has only been buffed since release
>medic
>never nerf, been buffed with the addition of crossbow and vaccinator
>engineer
>has received items to expressly counter explosives

people in tf2 threads do not play tf2

>>720664012
>crying for nerfs is wanting to improve
Oh, thats funny.

>>720664040
>Scout
>Gets fucked up the ass by rockets if he tries to get in close, no you're not jumping over the huge splash
>Sniper
>Gets jumped by a market gardener and dies or is spammed out by stickies
>Pyro
>Had airblast completely fucked during Jungle Inferno
>Medic
>Gets garden'd
>Engineer
>Gets fucked by sticky spam, even with Wrangler
I've played enough to know that Soldier and Demo are far and away the strongest classes in the game, to an absurd degree.
>>720664174
On the contrary actually, I'd like airblast to be fixed, I'd like Sandman stun to be returned so Scout has a reliable way to shut down the explosives tards, and I'd like you to suck a fat nigger dick.

>>720656243 (OP)
its pretty much useless aside from trying to survive longer to build ur banner, but if ur having to try that hard to live u probably losing anyway so its just a gambling weapon to pick over stock.

Heavychads, what’s our status?

>>720657291
A better player, just get good nigga.

>>720664406

AFK hours on trade servers don't count, stupid fucking nigger.

UGC Premier player here, you only see demo & soldier pubstomp because they're fucking piss easy to learn to play at a semi competent level. Any half decent heavy main clears soldier. Any decent scout main clears soldier. Any decent sniper main clears soldier.

Fuck, whenever I see dipshits like you with 5k+ hours, barely able to comprehend breathing, I want to fucking nuke the server.

>>720664406
>other classes die if I concoct a situation in which I have already won
great going, retard.
that doesn't mean anything.
a class being strong does not mean the class is overpowered. Demoman is far and away the strongest damage dealer in the game if he is allowed to exist comfortably at his preferred range, but he is in no way unstoppable, in fact he has pronounced weaknesses that many classes are designed to exploit.
Soldier is seen as disposable but incredibly flexible to fit almost any role that a team may need for a bog standard combat class.
Scout is the king of TDM due to his mobility being free of charge and his gun being really damn powerful. Against a good scout you are not hitting him often, and he is hitting you. There's a reason why Scout has stolen the role of pocket from soldier in competitive play, he's just that fucking strong with a beam on him, which has freed up both soldiers to lean hard into being roamer/pick roles with gunboats.
If your only point of reference for dealing with other classes is in pubs that are just as unskilled as you (hours don't mean jack shit), that only shows how pubs are prone to mistakes. And it's not a mystery that pubs have a ton of shit players that mostly exist to pad out the teams.

>>720664406
>I'd like airblast to be fixed
What, you mean make it bigger than this?
>Sandman stun
Imagine being such a shitter you can only get kills as Scout against people who can't even fight back. lol, lmao.

>>720664406
>>Gets fucked up the ass by rockets if he tries to get in close, no you're not jumping over the huge splash
play better
>>Gets jumped by a market gardener and dies or is spammed out by stickies
play better
>>Had airblast completely fucked during Jungle Inferno
projectile interaction is the same
>>Gets garden'd
position better
>>Gets fucked by sticky spam, even with Wrangler
position better

>>720665350
>AFK hours on trade servers don't count, stupid fucking nigger.
Excellent cope there buddy.
>UGC Premier player here, you only see demo & soldier pubstomp because they're fucking piss easy to learn to play at a semi competent level.
>Compfag
Opinion disregarding, I'm not reading the rest of your post since you're part of the cancer that killed so much of the fun factor TF2 used to have pre-MYM. Kill yourself.
>>720665436
>words words words
mfw
>>720665503
I want it back to a pre-Jungle Inferno state where where you airblast the rockets, they go back towards the Soldier instead of into my feet, killing me anyway.
God, I gotta stop coming to this board, it's just retards and shitters who have to fight tooth and nail to defend the fact that they're too shit at the game to do anything other than spam rockets and stickies. You people make me sick.

>>720665631
>>720664406
are you the same guy in every tf2 complaining about the nerf to the sandman+cleaver combo?
You have a legit learning disability, dude. You've been in every TF2 thread for years, but you're still awful at the game.

>>720665631
>I am illiterate
fuck off back to facebook you limpwrist faggot

>>720665631
I quit playing actively right when MYM dropped. You couldn't provide a single argument at all other than "mimimi i'm fucking trash and the average soldier pubstomper rapes me waaaaaaaa"
If you actually played the game for 0.1% of the playtime you posted, you wouldn't be this fucking trash.
Now kill yourself. Never express your retarded opinions again you subhuman.

>me on kritzkrieg
>buddy on black box
The amount of assmadness was off the chain. We could solo entire games by ourselves and cause naught but pure seethe in our wake.

>>720666206
If your buddy has a pocket medic, why even use the blacked box? Should just use stock and have better DPS

Move the fuck on award x20

>>720663947
>119th update
It was actually the patch before it the April 28, 2010 patch before (yeah it didn't even have a name) that gave Heavy the big buff. Then he got tomislav and gru on top of that later on. And back then there was a shit load of denial. People would go as far as say Heavy was actually weak in spite of watching him steamroll pubs. And yeah I would say that's OP. It's a low skill way of being far too powerful in the game environment that tf2 was made for.

>”pyro is completely useless”
>same threads also complain about demo and soldier having no counters
Does everyone here use the fucking phlog?

>>720666206
>toxotranny is a heal slut
Wow. Exciting.

>>720656243 (OP)
it's legitimately a lot worse for a good player, decent for pubs who can't rely on having medics

>>720671658
toxoplasmosis increases testosterone, only causes trans for women

>>720671719
yes that's what your type always says, mind your crutch on the way out

>>720671849
I don't use the black box because you do so much less damage
I used the cow rocket when it was first released because 1 extra rocket was legit so overpowered

>>720656243 (OP)
>I simply do not respect Soldiers who use Black Box.
Thats because none is warranted. Youre playing the easiest way to play an extremely easy class.

>>720663681
Shut the fuck up retard

Direct hit
Conch
DA
Yup, it's time to be cancer

>>720664040
Scout is the most nerfed class in tf2 history and still shits all over demo and soldier.

>>720671550
>Pyro counters in theory but in practice anyone actually experienced with this game knows the reflect mindgame is stacked against pyro. The pyro need experience to even be able to reflect reliably while with that same level of experienced soldier and demo know how to deal with him.

>>720656243 (OP)
I use it only with the conch and only if there's no goddamn medic for some reason

>>720656243 (OP)

>tfw hard to fight a soldier equipped with black box and concheror, 50% of the time also pocket medic because can't stop laughing at how shit he must be

oops sorry, i accidentally unloaded all 3 of my beggar's rockets right into your face at once.
I'm now shagging your engineer nest forcefully.

>>720672127
scout is good vs demo but not that good vs soldier

>>720671789
N-no it actually INCREASES testosterone...
Really need those extra hormone supplements from cat feces for your transition, huh?

>>720672134
>the reflect mindgame is stacked against pyro
Good thing pyro can tank a rocket and pipe giving him two shots to reflect a critical back. Just last night I got 4 kills from a reflect

>>720672364
Well you're already showing your inexperience since any experienced soldier knows to switch the the shotgun once he gets the first rocket in. For the demo he doesn't even need to get the pipe in. Just get in that airburst sticky range.

>>720672306
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5994116/

https://www.science.org/content/article/parasite-makes-wolves-more-likely-become-pack-leaders

>>720672547
I have 4k hours and anytime soldiers switch to shotgun I just switch to my flare. Also most soldiers do not on fact switch to the shotgun, you would be shocked

>>720658834
Swap soldier and demo as well as pyro and sniper and you've got it.

>>720664406
>>720665503
they already added back the cone check over an year ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1MF49sMHg4

>>720672759
You're right that flares are great at countering shotgun. If you're not already at that "got damaged by one rocket already" health. At that point the soldier already has too much of a health lead on you. And we are talking about the experienced soldiers here.

>>720672301
Scout's only good against a bad Demoman. A good Demoman can delete a Scout or anyone else faster than any other class.

>>720672127
scout himself has received 1 nerf over the course of the entirety of TF2's lifespan, and has come out ahead by receiving a few crucial buffs that change the dynamic of scout + medic entirely.
if any class has received the most nerfs, it's actually demoman, and that's mostly because of how absolutely busted he was before launch.
>but what about all these unlocks that got changed
those aren't the core of the class

>>720673127
>If you're not already at that "got damaged by one rocket already" health.
True. But if it's two full health experienced players pyro vs soldier, soldier isn't going to directly approach the pyro and will either switch to the shotgun at a bit of a distance to harass the pyro or rocket jump while a pyro is distracted to get them from the air , lower their health, then switch to the shotgun if the pyro noticed in time. Pyro 1v1 soldier is usually a disadvantage for the soldier because if you can hit reflects consistently you can shit down soldiers pretty well. It's worse if the pyro can hit flares consistently too

>>720659397
That’s because Heavy is extremely one note as a class. For his primary unlocks he has.
>stock but better 90% of the time
>stock but you’re a pyros bitch
>stock but you can’t move
>stock because it gives scouts and demoknights aneurisms
Meanwhile his two subclasses are a meme class and demoknight but worse. Medic also has a similar problem but at least his secondaries have a bit more variety

>>720664406
>scout
>the fastest class with the ability to double
>”wtf I keep dying when I run straight towards the projectile class”
Just keep a safe distance and actually jump on some high ground
>”b-but solider shotgun”
90% of solider mains are addicted to nailing metal to their feet or run around with a banner

I miss the old Liberty Launcher that was just faster with one less rocket. That was legitimately a crutch but I didn't care.

>>720657291
>soldier
scout and heavy
>demo
scout and soldier

>>720659397
he really isn't, at least in pubs. heavy stacking gets clowned on by kritz demo and a good sniper keeps him from ever poking his head out for more than a millisecond.

>>720675068
Oh god don't remind me, I get that nu-Liberty launcher is meant to give rocket jumping soldiers more mobility without completely sacrificing damage like the Rocket Jumper does, but in reality that just turned it into the least satisfying soldier primary to use

>>720674393
soldier shotgun isn't really a great answer anyway. scout's tiny hitbox crouch jump spazzing around is hard as fuck to hit while soldier is built like a fridge and barely faster than a heavy. you either gotta catch scout while he's distracted or force him to fight you in a chokepoint where he can't escape splash damage. outside of that you're fucked in a scout 1v1. that's why 6s soldiers play him like a rocket propelled suicide bomber because scout is so oppressive. value trades are the best you can hope for in a lot of situations.

>>720656243 (OP)
Ir's fun

>>720675453
nigga pls heavy is fucking useless

>>720656243 (OP)
I don't require your respect to farm you and your team.

>>720657291
doesn't matter, soldier and demoman and scout game, anything else is scrub tier

>>720656243 (OP)
I use conch and whip because I hate walking slowly
>inb4 rocket jump
rocket jumping is a commit that you can only escape from once you land and eat damage

>>720676572
heavy shuts down rocket jumping and a soldier that can't rocket jump is a sitting duck. heavy might be a fat slow fuck on offense but if he is in a good defensive position he is a brick wall to soldier.

>>720675619
the liberty launcher should deal more knockback to both enemies and self, it'd be amusing even if it feels like trying to kill people with a t-shirt cannon

>>720656243 (OP)
>I simply do not respect Soldiers who use Black Box.
Ok, I don't care.

Tomislav is the only way to keep Heavy play interesting, I love baiting people into blind spots fully revved when they think I'm backpedalling to safety. I only occasionally switch back to stock if we're playing a section with super close quarters, everything else is a meme save for Natty when you want to punish spastic Demoknights and Scunts

>>720656243 (OP)
Who cares about your respect? You're a fool.

>>720664040
>pyro
>only been buffed
>air blast is heavily nerfed and the puff+sting combo is nerfed into the ground

>>720675601
>kritz demo and a good sniper
So either requiring two players co-operating with a combo you don't actually see supported all that often or a good sniper, sniper being the least competently played class in the game.

Meanwhile a heavy player can walk into games and often attract medics to him like flies to shit and do well without needing to put all that much effort in. Assuming the heavy player didn't already enter the server with another player serving as his medic.

Again it's just way too easy to fuck up casual games this way with the only counters being fairly impractical. It's a problem that I've seen people noticing more and more lately and I don't know why it's taken this long.

>>720678306
pyro used to not have airblast at all
airblast reflects didn't even mini-crit.
just because pyro can no longer instagib 300hp heavies with the axtinguisher, doesn't mean he hasn't overall been buffed over the game's lifetime

>>720678524
The original claim was that pyro received nothing but buffs since release. Saying Pyro is better now than his release state really isn't saying much since he released in easily the worst state any class has ever been in.

>>720665631
Compfags may be boring fucks, even incapable of game design on occasion, but you do Ruby Rose a disservice with such unnuanced and dull takes.

>>720678854
if we're talking the pyro v solder/demo matchup, pyro has ONLY gotten stronger in a 1v1 and has more counterplay against them than he did at release

>>720678440
>So either requiring two players co-operating with a combo
yes you need coordination to beat the enemy team coordinating by stacking heavies.
alternatively you could just stack demo.
>sniper being the least competently played class in the game.
no shortage of good snipers on the most popular payload maps.

>Meanwhile a heavy player can walk into games and often attract medics to him like flies to shit and do well without needing to put all that much effort in
a single heavy player can be dealt with again by sniper or demo. there is nothing heavy can do against a demo firing from behind cover and even with a medic up his ass it's not enough to save him from stickyspam.

I argue that it’s made by known scammers who commit false advertising and fraud.

Valve screwed over the Artifact fanbase by cancelling the Artifact 2.0 beta without even allowing users to invite friends like they said they would in January 2021 and does not deserve your financial support for these gross consumer-unfriendly practices.

>>720679041
>yes you need coordination to beat the enemy team coordinating by stacking heavies.
I'm not even talking about stacking heavies. I see rolls happen thanks to a single heavy+medic combo and that really doesn't involve any co-ordination. Keep in mind it's only really a problem with heavy+medic and maybe phlog pyro + medic. Solder+medic and demo+medic have enough inherent weaknesses because there's much easier to get close to

The problem comes the fact you've got a close range game where the majority of the classes are geared for close range but can't fight at where they are at their strongest when heavy+medic gets involved.

>no shortage of good snipers on the most popular payload maps.
Payload is shit. Besides having good snipers in the game shouldn't be desired to begin with.

>there is nothing heavy can do against a demo firing from behind cover
Jump the corner. Competant stickybomb users aren't that common in this game either. There's a reason the majority of demo players in games go demoknight.

In the end you can see what you suggest doesn't pan out because heavy+medic's always end up rolling servers in practice.

>>720679938
MEant for >>720679142

>>720679041
If we're talking the pyro v solder/demo matchup.
>things got harder for pyro with the introduction of direct hit, a faster moving rocket launcher that's consequently harder to reflect
>the introduction of the loose cannon, a projectile that more often than not doesn't manage to make a full return on reflect before exploding
>the introduction of the air strike, a rocket launcher that for some fucking reason was given its own special projectile model that's really fucking hard to see

>>720679938
>Payload is shit
if you're playing shitty maps like ctf where everyone's running around like headless chickens by themselves, everyone's ignoring the objective, and heavy isn't being hit with focus fire no shit he's going to be a menace. heavy overextends on payload he gets swarmed or headshot.
>Jump the corner
if heavy's slow ass can get to the corner before you your aim is either atrocious or your positioning is terrible.
>Competant stickybomb users aren't that common in this game either
you hold m1/m2 and don't overswing it is not that difficult. it only takes 1 player why don't you do it instead of whining about it. if you don't want to play demo then play sniper both can solve the problem.

>>720680832
>if you're playing shitty maps like ctf
Why was that the gamemode you jumped to?
>if heavy's slow ass can get to the corner before you your aim is either atrocious or your positioning is terrible.
He's not that slow when unrevved. Literally just jump rev the corner and start firing.
>you hold m1/m2 and don't overswing it is not that difficult
And how do you intend to deal with everyone you'll come across who isn't a heavy? In the end you actually need to play the class competently. And again competent demo players aren't that common. Same goes to sniper.

Why do you think that in practice the combo just ends up rolling casuals and pubs?

>>720680832
>shitty maps like ctf
What a pleb!

>>720680832
>you hold m1/m2 and don't overswing it is not that difficult.
and yet people find a way

>>720681716
>Why was that the gamemode you jumped to?
because it's the polar opposite of payload.
>He's not that slow when unrevved
he has to walk unrevved for several seconds to get to the cover you're hiding behind at demo's max spam range and if he unrevs he has to wait 1.87s minimum to have full damage and accuracy again and in that time you can hit him with 4 pipes or 4 stickies. you should also always beat heavy to chokepoints and high ground since you can sticky jump and he has to walk.
>And how do you intend to deal with everyone you'll come across who isn't a heavy?
as the most powerful dps class in the game? gee I don't know.

to me this sounds like a big skill issue and you just don't want to admit it. take off the sword and shield and learn stock demo instead of bitching and moaning.

>>720682493
also forgot to add sticky traps completely dunk on heavy. you put 5 stickies on a choke there is absolutely nothing he can do about it.

>>720682493
>Why do you think that in practice the combo just ends up rolling casuals and pubs?
Answer the question

>he has to walk unrevved for several seconds to get to the cover you're hiding behind at demo's max spam range and if he unrevs he has to wait 1.87s minimum to have full damage
Less than 0.7 seconds with tomislav to start doing damage. No the rev damage penalty doesn't matter that much. It's 25% of just one second of your damage.
>as the most powerful dps class in the game? gee I don't know.
Having high damage doesn't mean anything if you can't hit with it. Remember we're talking classes like scout you're likely to come across. I repeat, in the end you actually need to play the class competently. Most people can't.

>>720683182
>Answer the question
Because pubbers are shit and don't want to play stock demo.
Same reason a single engie can stonewall a team when demo poops on him.
>Less than 0.7 seconds with tomislav to start doing damage
Still have to walk for several seconds to get to the corner, still have to wait 1.7s to do effective damage again, still a sitting duck while unrevved.
>Having high damage doesn't mean anything if you can't hit with it
go join any mge server and ask a demo to 1v1 you as heavy and get a reality check.
you people are so shit at the game it's unreal.

>>720656243 (OP)
Using this with the Japanese backpack is very fun. I like not having to rely on a medic to keep me alove

>>720683964
>Because pubbers are shit and don't want to play stock demo.
Right. So why argue the game should be balanced towards people playing the class they don't want to play?

>still have to wait 1.7s to do effective damage again,
75% of your current damage is not ineffective damage. Heavyfags exaggerate the fuck out of the rev penalty.
>go join any mge server and ask a demo to 1v1 you as heavy and get a reality check.
My point was that you need to be actually competant as demo. You're making my point for me by talking about MGE demos.

I like how the Black Box is modelled after an irl Rocket Launcher that holds 4 rockets and yet it only holds 3 in game whereas most of the other RL's hold 4.

>>720684392
>Right. So why argue the game should be balanced towards people playing the class they don't want to play?
welcome to tf2 buddy. enemy team has a medic and yours doesn't? you lose. your team has to walk a marathon to the front and nobody wants to play engie? you lose. there's a kunai trickstabber spy terrorizing your team and nobody wants to play pyro? you lose. play the class the team needs it's a team game.
>75% of your current damage is not ineffective damage. Heavyfags exaggerate the fuck out of the rev penalty.
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Minigun
>There is a 50% damage penalty that starts when the gun is revved, decreasing linearly over the course of one second until full damage is reached. Accuracy is also reduced for the same time, with the cone of fire tightening over one second.
all miniguns share this mechanic including the tomislav.
>My point was that you need to be actually competant as demo
then learn to play demo you fucking shitter. why do you think deserve to win when you don't want to play the classes the team needs and you're a one trick pony who sucks at every class that isn't his main? why do you think tf2 should be balanced around garbage players like yourself? do we need to kneecap spy for the hundredth time because the average pub player is deaf and blind?

>>720685249
50% penalty decreasing linearly over the course of a second means 75% of your normal damage overall. You're looking at a 50% damage that changes to 100% damage over the course of a second. That averages to 75% over that second. Yeah I know a lot of heavy players fail the math on this one and seem to think you deal with the 50% penalty for the whole second. Unless you're specifically talking about the accuracy penalty as well.

>why do you think tf2 should be balanced around people getting to play what they want to play instead of what they're expected to?
Because it would be more fun. Remember Heavy+Medic was actually balanced for pub play when the game originally released but valve really wanted to shoehorn heavy into 6s play which is why we see this shit because they're explicitly not balanced with the mode of play the game was meant for.

>>720664406
go to bed homogay

>>720677564
The asshurt alone makes natasha worth it

>>720664406
You are terrible at scout if you cant rape soldiers and demos when youre in on them

>>720683964
>>720685249
half of a minigun's damage is still more damage than most weapons can put out in the same time

>>720686479
>That averages to 75% over that second
which is still garbage and you still haven't addressed how you are going to close the gap on a demo spamming at max range or make your bullets fly around a corner to kill a demoman corner peeking you.

>Remember Heavy+Medic was actually balanced for pub play when the game originally released but valve really wanted to shoehorn heavy into 6s play which is why we see this shit because they're explicitly not balanced with the mode of play the game was meant for.
heavy has been nerfed repeatedly since release so what the fuck are you talking about. the spinup penalty used to not exist, gru used to not reduce max health, heavy used to be able to eat his own thrown sandvich, fists of steel only had the melee penalty and blocked 60% of damage, heavy used to do less damage to sentries.

>>720686479
not enough to kill a demo spamming you to death from behind cover and that's only including corner peeking. if he has high ground or vertical cover to lob stickies over your damage could be infinite and you still wouldn't be able to kill him. there is no world where heavy is ever going to kill demo unless he makes a huge positional or aim blunder.

>>720658117
>>720660715
>>720663582
>>720675453
>>720663684
I LOATHE these retards so much

>>720687185
>how you are going to close the gap on a demo spamming at max range or make your bullets fly around a corner to kill a demoman corner peeking you.
I told you, run and jump the corner. The whole reason jump revving still exists as a heavy strategy is that the even under the rev penalty heavy does plenty of damage.

>the spinup penalty used to not exist
The spinup penalty was added in the first place because valve realised they make the spin way too fast, but had already added a weapon which had having a fast rev as its main thing.
>gru used to not reduce max health
GRU was originally not in the game.
>heavy used to be able to eat his own thrown sandvich
Sandvich used to not be in the game. Nor did it originally have a m2. It was originally added with the intention it wouldn't stack with medic and then valve added the m2 despite what was previously said.

>>720687853
>I told you, run and jump the corner
how is heavy going to leap 20ft across the room you stupid nigger?

>I want heavy to be stuck with fists and shotgun again
of course the dumbass with a retarded opinion was just shitposting all along.
kill yourself genuinely.

>>720688631
>run and jump
>heavy going to leap 20ft across the room?
>run and jump
>run

>I want heavy to be stuck with fists and shotgun again
Didn't say that. Original sandvich was great. Hell GRU would probably have been fine had it been with the older heavy balancing. The big mistakes was fucking with the rev speeds/times and forgetting heavy is supposed to make a noise when revved up.

>>720687398
>he can't kill soldiers as scout
skill issue

god i wish medic's other primaries were viable next to the crossbow

>>720662208
I almost always run shotgun if I'm using stock flamethrower.
The flaregun feels kinda pointless outside of harassing snipers desu
The shotgun does significantly better and easier damage at the ranges where pyro should be fighting. It's basically a free win against any enemy pyro that's running flares.

>>720691137
The Overdose is great for being a speedy, unkillable little shit

>>720691137
on hit ubercharge on syringe gun would be fucking stupid

>>720663947
>multiple walls of 300's
>at pubs
I think that's kinda the problem lol most pubs just see them and try to fight them head on and are surprised that they got curbstomped

>>720656243 (OP)
BUT WHY DON'T THEY JUST MAKE THE WHOLE PLANE OUT OF IT
WEIGHT ISSUE'S A BULLSHIT

>>720691137
I think the syringe gun granting ubercharge on hit encourages offensive usage too much when it's meant to be used as a somewhat unwieldy personal defence weapon
I really like the idea of it reloading when stowed, though