Thread 720688041

What skills should and should not be in an RPG?

>>720688041 (OP)
skill bloat

>>720688041 (OP)
Passive skills are stupid, I hate them. Give me the option to turn on the skill at will. If I have to do 20% more damage with 2 handed weapons, let ME switch that on, stop letting the game decide when I do more damage.

>>720688041 (OP)
I actually really like the skyrim leveling system.

>>720688041 (OP)
I don't like gimmick skills like speech/charisma. If there's a way to actively use them, that isn't just bartering, then they're fine.
Movement skills are necessary in action games.

For me, KCD2 probably has one of the better skill systems
>No boring barter skill
>No medicine skill that's basically exclusively useful to heal NPCs in quests
>6 different persuasion skills, including how threatening you look or how well dressed and fit you look
>There's weapon skills and a general warfare skill so you're not useless when using other weapons

It's not perfect, but it avoids a lot of the stupid shit I hate in skill systems. They put a lot of thought into it.

>>720688041 (OP)
Sex skill, leveling it unlocks more sex

>>720688260
It's made for people with 90 IQ

>>720688041 (OP)
I always thought it was stupid how you're this great hero in games like Fallout or Elder Scrolls, and the skills allow you to do incredible things, and then there's the lockpick skill which just lets you open increasingly harder locks. Speech will allow you to talk demons into killing themselves and save the world, but lockpicking will help you with a lock someone paid 10 dollars for. Lockpicking should ALWAYS be combined with something else. It should allow you to pickpocket, spot cameras, hack computers, sneak easier, whatever.

>>720688041 (OP)
>Alchemy
Usually boring, but some people like it and you're normally rewarded with some pretty powerful stuff if you invest into it, so it should be included
>Crafting and enchanting
It can be lame when the stuff you make in the forge is better than the legendary gear you get from adventuring. But obviously it would be pointless if it was less useful as well. I'm undecided if it should be removed.
>Bartering
Delete from every game
>Speech
If it exists in a game, every protagonist is going to have it. It might as well not be a thing. Replace it with having to carefully choose the right option yourself, or divide it into several skills like intimidation, persuasion, lying, etc.
>Medicine
Should not be in games unless it's party based and has things like bleeding and broken limbs. It sucks when it just makes your healing item a little better
>Unarmed
The game actually has to throw you into a lot of brawls, otherwise it should be removed

>>720688041 (OP)
sneak is a dumb skill and stealth should be heavily if not entirely dependent on your equipment and positioning instead of being an invisibility cloak that turns on when you crouch

>>720689783
>sneak is a dumb skill
No it's not, the thief playstyle is the coolest
>stealth should be heavily if not entirely dependent on your equipment and positioning instead of being an invisibility cloak that turns on when you crouch
Being invisble in front of enemies due to high sneak skill isn't fun, but no game will have the resources to make a functional skill based stealth game in an open world RPG. Also, I don't see any reason why the thief related skills should be removed and replaced with equipment as opposed to any other playstyle. Should the thief be able to cast spells just as well just because he found a spellbook?

>>720688041 (OP)
New Vegas' Guns skill is better than the past Fallouts' Small Guns and Big Guns skill. It leads to things like Explosives getting Fat Man, instead of just having grenades and mines.

You'd basically just level up Big Guns in anticipation of the endgame when it would actually become OP

>>720688041 (OP)
Armour skills shouldn't be a thing. Shield? Sure. But armour... you're either wearing it or you're not.

>>720690970
You have to train in your armor but your right a 20% armor boost is kinda silly. You gotta make heavy armor come with draw backs and then leveling your armor skill reduces those. Like making equipped armor weigh less, reducing the stamina penalty, slower degradation and ect.

>>720688041 (OP)
Depends on the game and leveling system. Rarely used skills should either be axed or rolled into other skills that come up more frequently. Otherwise they easily become trap options where players invest points for no reward. Things like pickpocket and lockpicking, for instance, would probably work better under a single security or sleight of hand skill rather than be distinct things. At the very least, they should be tailoring experience gain to reflect the frequency at which you are using the skill. Non combat skills should level at roughly the same rate as those used in combat. So if you level Long Swords once per a dungeon, you should probably also level repair once dungeon, even if the latter is just clicking a bunch of armor/weapons in a menu after a few fights.

In use-to-improve systems like TES, anything that isn't active use shouldn't be a skill. Armor skills should all be cut. The whole point in combat is to avoid getting hit. These skills only level when you fuck up. This means they either significantly trail behind everything else or you have to do retarded shit like park yourself in front of low level enemies and let them smack you around for hours. It would probably work better to just improve itemization and have different armor types have different cost/benefits.

It's important to roll two skills into one occassionally. Bows and crossbows should always be the same, if not you end up with a ranger character who can't use a good crossbow he found because he never had the opportunity to level it. When it comes to swords, maces and axes, I usually prefer if it's rolled into one handed vs two handed, but I'm OK with them being seperate skills as well.

>>720688041 (OP)
I suspect an RPG doesn't need skills.
Witcher games have "skills" or whatever, but they don't feel like RPGs to me. You always play as Geralt, he always has the same personality no matter what dialogue or choice you choose (occasionally the games sort of whine that you gone and done a non-Geralt option) and even if you wear heavy armour or unlock this or that spell you're always a Witcher: 2 handed sword, fast and dodgy, quick disrupting spells.
Is Assassin's Creed an RPG because it has skills?

I think for an RPG you need to define your character via personality/motivation/dialogue and "build". Build could be decided by skills, but maybe there's other ways.

>>720690237
>no game will have the resources to make a functional skill based stealth game in an open world RPG
sure, but they could certainly try harder
>don't see any reason why the thief related skills should be removed and replaced with equipment as opposed to any other playstyle
thieves usually do more than just sneak, even if sneaking is what makes most of it work
>Should the thief be able to cast spells just as well just because he found a spellbook?
he should be heavily limited due to not having the right attributes and skill investments but it should still be an option, just like a warrior in heavy armor should still be able to ambush an enemy by staying still in a hiding spot until the right moment

>>720688712
You should feel right at home then nigger

>Unlike SPECIAL, GURPS has a lot of skills the player can acquire. Based on the number of assets, the player would have been able to select a total of 56 skills. This was cut down to just 19, a little over a third of what the GURPS version featured.

>Indirectly, this also explains why the game seems slanted so heavily towards a particular playstyle, namely, a character with Speech tagged. Conversations which would normally require one of eight separate skills (estimation according to the purposes of various social skills in the game) just require one: Speech. There is no other skill that has such utility and versatility in the game.
its over

>>720694171
imagine

>>720688123

Twink.

This thread is made by people who don't like RPGs

>>720688041 (OP)
I was going to say lockpicking skills should just make picking easier and not prevent you from even attempting to unlock something. But then I realized if you did this people would just save scum the hardest locks for 10mins until they got lucky.

>>720695618
>Game allows you to attempt minigame regardless of skill
>However the lockpick always breaks unless you have the minimum skill required
Based

Skills need to have disadvantages like racism makes gives you some extra strength and opens quest lines but niggers are stronger against you and are more aggressive than normal

>>720688041 (OP)
Depends on game mechanics. The problem with RPG vidya is always the same. It's too much combat based because the action seems to be what the majority of the public enjoys.
That's why it's so hard to include non-combat skills, that in tabletop games offer so much.
Things like speech or bartering are reduced to one or two dialogue options, which is fucking underwhelming. Charisma in general is a joke.
Mobility skills are mostly absent, or are there to support combat. Agility is always dodging. What about climbing places? Jumping off ledges that would otherwise kill you?
If games put more emphasis on world and character design, and playing around with the environment, RPGs would be closer to what they're supposed to, and pretty much every boring skill would add something to the experience. Why does my character need to fight every single time? Why can't I deceive everyone and make them betray themselves, or give me their loot voluntarily?

I think everyone can agree that speech is usually the most flawed skill

>>720697475
No, it's good in Fallout 1 and Fallout 2.

>>720688041 (OP)
Skill trees are gay. My issue is when it is displayed as a tree since the devs WILL prioritize making the tree look aesthetically pleasing over it being an actually good leveling system. Also, it is the favorite RPG level up system of non-RPGs. Skill trees shouldn't be an oversimplified skill system. Picrelated is good because it isn't aesthetic faggotry.

>>720689182
Lockpicking is just a good "skill gate".

>>720694053
Speech is just broken.