Thread 721124920

>game insults the player
honestly? kinda based

>>721124920 (OP)

Not really.

If MGS2 came out today Kojima would get doxed on Kiwi Farms.

>>721124920 (OP)
I wish I was as pretty as Raiden

I wish more games had the guts to do this. And more players had a sense of humor about themselves.

>>721125156
Telling the player to accept themselves for who they really are is transphobic

>>721125250
If anything, Raiden throws out his assigned identity and decides for himself who he is, it's a lot easier to do a trans reading of the game.

any other games of note that actively have contempt for the player?

>>721124920 (OP)
>Did you just call me a nerd?

>>721125517
90% of modern AAA releases
hell, you could argue that "engagement optimized matchmaking" is specifically engineered to keep the player upset

>>721125517
drakengard 1 and 3 kinda do this

>>721125517
Dustborn

>>721125517
YIIK and Danganronpa V3.

>>721124920 (OP)
>Raiden did VR (played video games)
>Ended up as a killer
What was Kojima trying to say here?

>>721125491
>Raiden throws out his assigned identity
Yeah his assigned identity of... uh... so anyway... uhhhhhh................

>>721125626
Live service sloppa in a nutshell really. Because nothing extracts money faster from a playerbase like psychological abuse mixed with the fear of missing out.

>>721125751
of the player? the dog tags? Hello, did you play the game?
I'm not pretending this is an absolutely retarded take, but it's an easier one to make.

i never got the impression mgs2 was insulting me. any shit that got flung on raiden (sometimes quite literally. those seagulls) is just from him being the new guy in the setting and i never felt any of it was a personal attack on me or the players in general.

>>721125932
solid snake, legendary hero, shit talks raiden for thinking he's a big shot just because he played VR missions
how else could this be interpreted?

what are you guys talking about in here?

>game hates the mc
what was kojima's problem?

>>721124920 (OP)
In MOTHER 3, there's this sequence where you're treated to a lot of references from the prior games, and it's great and all, but there's a subtle implication of "only Waito Piggu (Porky) would give a shit about all of this crap to keep Earthbound paraphernalia around after all of these years", because, in-game, it's Porky's collection.

The worst part is that Waito Piggu in USA doesn't realize this, and instead they fawn at the sequence.

>>721126013
literally. he's scoffing at this new guy who played VR missions.

>>721125751
The whole point of Raiden is that he's a self-insert with no backstory or personality. His only combat experience is essentially from playing video games and he's just going through an inferior copy of Snake's own journey. Then by the end it's revealed he has his own history, he gets a weapon and fighting style completely unique from Snake's, and he throws away the name that the player chose after realizing he doesn't know who that is. It's not at all subtle, but I'll admit it tends to get lost in all the other shit the game dumps on you in its last act.

>>721125932
It's insulting you a little but not as much as MGS4 is

>You are stupid for playing games
>You are retarded for liking Solid Snake

>>721126256
you know, i was going to mention eva's little speech about war games in 4 for comparison but i decided not to. but that did actually seem like a jab at players to me.

>>721126602
I view MGS4 as a big insult towards the fanbase, the series itself and it's lore, the games industry as a whole at that time, post-9/11 America, and Kojima himself even. It's a very bitter game

>>721126870
it's a real depressing game. i don't like it much. i pretty much stop having fun even playing it after the octopus fight.

>>721126870
Yeah, the constant feeling I got from playing it was that Kojima really didn't want to make the game and was doing everything he could to burn the franchise down so he'd never have to come back to it. Even if the post-4 games weren't amazing, it's nice that Kojima eventually came back around on his enthusiasm for Metal Gear. Still sucks that Solid Snake's story ended on such a bitter note, though.

>>721124920 (OP)
We need more bait and switch games.

>>721125642
Drakengard 1 was mostly an accident, and 3 is too desperately trying to please the 1st's audience to really have any contempt.

>>721127687
>>721126870
Fukushima wrote the original MGS trilogy, 4 is Kojima being on his own with a staff of yes men, that's why it's so vastly different.

MGS2 being so meta and 2 deep4u likewise is all Fukushima, Kojima could never come up with such an intertwined breakdown of what a video game sequel is. Kojima is borderline retarded

>>721126013
>>721126254
It's kind of weird people assign a spiteful or adversarial angle when the entire inspiration for writing this was him wanting kojipro to succeed him and take over developing MGS.

He's literally looking for a successor, someone to pass things down to, and people see that and go "haha! he hates his fans!".

>>721126013
Do you think you're a big shot just because you played MGS1?

mgs2 was the best one in the series.

>>721126172
he's forever asshurt about David Hayter taking the spotlight from him

>>721128536
the tanker chapter and arsenal gear are some of the best videogame content in history
the plant chapter is kinda meh

>>721128292
The fukushima memes are old as shit, and honestly Fukushima was probably the more lowkey and down to Earth writer between the two, Ghost Babel is a much less experimental and absurd story compared to shit Kojima constantly attempts from 2 onward. Not having him around is probably why the characters got less interesting in the latter games, that was always his main contribution, fleshing things out in optional codecs and punching up the main script.

>>721126254
when you realize that starting Arsenal naked isn't just a "funny haha" thing and that it actually symbolizes Raiden's rebirth into a new character it becomes pure kino

>>721128335
MGSV's ending is literally Kojima, as Big Boss, thanking you for helping him build his legacy too

>>721128292
>Fukushima wrote a significant portion of the codec calls in original MGS trilogy
ftfy

>>721125491
no. him throwing out the player's dogtags symbolizes him rejecting player control and thus becoming his own character instead of solid snake placeholder.

>>721128536
Eh, I've come around on it a lot over the years, but it's still got too many pacing problems. It essentially stops being a video game after the Harrier fight and the infodumping gets beyond excessive by the time you're on Arsenal Gear. Hell, you're given three different explanations for what the S3 Plan is with the only bit of gameplay breaking it up being the Ray fight. Shell 2 getting cut down really fucked everything up.

>>721125156
Yeah, because it's that pretentious message of " there's to life than video games, and we think our game is clever because reminds the player that lesson!" As if people dont already know or here that shit enough already in the first place.

>>721128860
Yes, he throws away his assigned identity and chooses a new one for himself. He even loses his dick by the time of the next game he appears in. Very trans coded.

>>721124920 (OP)
>game insults the player
gay as fuck
>game insults the player for sucking at it
based and redpilled

>>721128860
Well he should've stuck with the player considering he then did a bunch of stupid shit that got him turned into a robocuck.

>>721124920 (OP)
TRVKE

>>721125740
raiden was a child soldier

>>721128536
I always liked the story but recently playing it and the VR missions/snaketales has me thinking it's better gameplay wise than 3, which hasn't aged well in that department.

>>721128914
i think it's still more consistent than MGS1 which just turns into a boss rush after Mantis

>>721128536
>>721129141
it's really fun to play around in with the tools you've got available. still wish you could explore the other half of big shell.

>>721129140
He didn't remember it though. But a killer gravitated to video games, wanted to be like Solid Snake.... really makes you think.

>>721128775
>>721128728
>Fukushima barley did anything
>This obviously is why post Fukushima games are so incredibly different and bad
?????

I'm gonna go with Fukushima being the master writer on this one

>>721129836
They aren't incredibly different though. They are worse stories but not significantly different in theme, style, or anything like that. As I said the biggest difference is the characters aren't as good, which I attributed to help from Fukushima. Besides Kojima already wrote good stories before MGS1, which Fukushima only joined halfway through development.

Fukushima fleshed out the characters.
Uncredited Konami grunts created the suite of new gameplay features that would become franchise staples going forward.
Kojima was coming up with vague ideas like "Vamp the vampire", "Fatman the fat Bomberman" and "China Man the Chinaman".

>>721129385
the one half of the big shell we got to explore wasn't exactly riveting, the only rooms I remember are the mail room and that one fuckass room with the two stories you have to go through several times

>>721124920 (OP)
>Fable TLC
>Demon Door that demands all of your silver keys (limited collectible needed to open chests) to open
>Demon Door located in the very late game
>You should have found at least 10 silver keys by now just through normal gameplay
>If you don't have any keys when you agree to give him the keys, he calls you a weirdo and a freak before opening anyway
Based

>>721128914
you either hate or love it

>>721131081
Or you thought it was okay.

>>721125865
This bit has always been very funny to me because my name is Jack so when Raiden threw away the dogtags that had his name on it I didnt really get it was supposed to be him throwing away my control
I still think its fucking kino though, but a lot of mgs2 is particularly funny given I have the same exact name as Raiden

>>721124920 (OP)
>Game redeems the mistakes of past games and makes them better retroactively

>>721128292
>Fukushima wrote the original MGS trilogy
>Trilogy
>MGS3 is right there with MGS1 and 2 despite taking place in a soviet russian jungle in the 60's and superficially being silly fanservice that laugh with the player at MGS2 backlash.
LMAO YOU RETARDED FUCKING NIGGER whoever taught you how to type your braindead drivel should be executed and buried in a ditch.
Is MGS3 your favorite because major zero taught you how to feed yourself so you avoided your retardation leading to your timely death due to starvation?

>>721131771
jack the ripper is the dumbest thing in the series, and that's saying a lot

>>721131342
that could be either

>>721131863
They had two games to try to give Raiden some tangible identity that makes sense in 2 and 4 and they fucked it up both times. It was only in MGR that Raiden's character was nailed down, it reconciles his past with his present self and explores what kind of person he is rather than spouting nonsense about made-up player personas. It also does the seemingly impossible and actually makes him cool.

>>721131863
Liquid got mind controlled by an arm transplant and it was so stupid kojima tried to back out of it by saying he actually instead mind controlled himself to think he was being mind controlled.

Jack the ripper isn't even in the top ten big stupid mgs moments.

>>721132191
It's still so weird to me that he thought it was necessary to try and explain away all the supernatural elements after introducing The fucking Sorrow and after Fortune's last stand.

>>721124920 (OP)
I always think about what an actual mgs2 would be like. You know, a sequel that doesn't purposely recreate the events of the first game, and berate the player with the idea that wanting a sequel to a fun game is somehow a bad thing.

>>721132191
It almost kind of make sense in a stupid way when they made ocelot's dad a spirit medium

>>721132184
His character is great in 2 and fine in 4. MGR he is just some nonsensical edgelord in love with Sam for no good reason. It doesn't explore him or reconcile his past in any kind of interesting or compelling way. MGR is a fun meme game but it's embarrassing to pretend it's well written even by Metal Gear standards.

>>721124920 (OP)
enter

>>721132478
I believe this is intentionally anticlimactic and upsetting as part of 4 meta attack on the series. In fact I think the removal of so many supernatural elements is intentional to reflect how Kojima felt the "magic" of the series itself was gone be then.

>>721132595
If kojima wrote it he would instead meet a facescanned white woman named "metaphor nameperson".

>>721125517
soma tries to do this unfortunately the game thinks it’s much smarter than it is

>>721128292
Was Fukushima the one who came up with the dumb ass arm thing

>>721132758
the world allowing kojima to fall in love with the smell of his own farts was one of gaming's greatest catastrophes

>>721132898
No that was Kojima

>>721124920 (OP)
the 2016 election insulted a large portion of voters, just like these subversive video games, anon. Hope you're happy about that as well.

>>721132595
MGR is the only well written Metal Gear game for very obvious reasons. If you disagree, it is simply because you have a high tolerance for bullshit (which isn't a bad thing)

>>721128775
>>721130391
>He just wrote the codec calls.
The entire story is in those calls!

Please, by all means offer me another explanation for why the story for every Kojima game after MGS3 is pants-on-head retarded.

>>721133198
>IRL politics out of nowhere

>>721133351
its an analogy, anon. I guess subversive stuff that insults the viewer, isnt for you....

>>721133347
The story for every MGS is pants on head retarded. Kojima just got quirkier as time went on. Even before 4 came out everyone thought MGS was an extremely silly and bizarre series.

>>721133347
He wrote the optional codec calls, like the stuff Otacon and Rose say when you save the game, and not even all of those. The main story ones were done by Kojima.

>>721133496
Revisionism. I was there in the message boards, 4chan and Gamefaqs. 1, 2, and 3 were considered badass games embeded with high-concept scifi and quotable/meme-worthy humor. Fan art galore, chibi snake sneaking around in a cardboard box. The games have the full sprectum of human emotions at play.

>>721128564
Worships Hollywood and celebrities. Gets mad when he makes a game that is so loved it turns the American VA into a celebrity. What was his problem? He also loved aspects of the English translation like procure on site that he wanted an english language with Japanese subtitles available in the Japanese release but when he saw the translator had to make changes to the script to better work as natural dialogue he blacklisted the translator. Kojima really does have an ego still love metal gear though even if Kojima has a complex

>>721133906
That definitely wasn't true for 2 which was widely hated on release by many fans.

>>721133906
I was there as well and everyone just kept going "huh wow those japs sure are wacky! why is that man shitting? mecha? silly wacky funny japanese people! 2 nukes!" over and over.

In fact I feel like this whole deification of MGS as this super serious military setting is something that's mostly post MGS3. 1 and 2 were typically considered bizarre games. People hadn't gotten used to the water temperature of cyborg ninjas yet.

>>721124920 (OP)
get in the locker fggt

>>721132478
People who sent death and arson threats to Konami offices demanding those things to be explained motivated that addition.

>>721131816
>>Fukushima wrote the original MGS trilogy
>>Trilogy
It's a trilogy, yes. Did this anon have an aneurysm writing that post or something?

>>721124920 (OP)
>game tortures and kills all the series characters.

>>721128292
>>721134702
I heard that when I wake up full of sunshine and giggles it's because fukushimi snuck into my room and kissed me on the forehead while I was sleeping.

>>721134068
I can tell you that i randomly picked up MGS1 from Blockbuster on a whim. And at the time there was simply nothing else like it. It blew everything else away. Way ahead of it's time. Couldn't believe that a game could be like that. Which is why people were aching for a sequel.

>>721134045
A lot of people got filtered hard, but the twist ending for MGS2 was worth it and definitely took the idea of a "sequel" to the next level. The barrier between the game world and our world dissolved. It even challenged, like Lynch's The Return, the idea of narrative closure. What other game has done what MGS2 has done with applying storytelling in the context of an interactive medium like video games?

Also, MGS3 was Kojima attempting to mesh fan-service with his desires as a creator.

>>721134068
And to add. MGS1-3 definitely deserve deification because nothing since has really dethroned them. Hence why theyre "remaking" them now.

>>721134702
It's not really a trilogy. It's three sequels in a series that had 2 games before MGS1 and had 3 more after MGS3, not counting spin offs. It doesn't follow one singular story arc or anything between the three of them.

>>721135038
Its a trilogy anon
A trio of games that share a thematic thread
Youre the kinda nigga who gets mad about the term Metoidvania arent you?

>>721124920 (OP)
a game like MGS2 would never get made today.

>>721134702
Are you too much of a retarded gorilla nigger to notice how MGS3 differs from MGS1 and MGS2 which form a duology? MGS1 takes place in 2005 America, MGS2 Tanker chapter is set in 2007 while Plant chapter takes place in 2009, events of MGS1 are important to the story of MGS2, so much so the game will ask you the player if you've seen MGS1 through to the ending in the new game questionnaire to determine whether you should play the tanker chapter to begin with
MGS3 is set in 1964 in a Soviet Russian Jungle in fictional virgin cliffs and only has meta references like raiden being a fag whom everyone hates.

>>721135439
It's not a trilogy though, MGS3 is not directly connected to 1 and 2 in story, it's closer to the msx games in giving Big Boss a backstory, and is a large shift in gameplay. and there is no complete conclusion or continuation to 1 and 2 until 4 which ties them together with MGS3. It's only nostalgia and the consistent quality compared to later games that makes people want to categorize them as a trilogy separate from the rest of the series, but there's no real reason to look at them like that.

>>721124920 (OP)
Kojima is the GOAT

>>721135529
I played all 3 in differing orders, and if you play 2 right after playing 3, a lot of stuff plugs in like crazy. Like when Gurlukovich mentions Metal Gear's tech being a Russian invention. The thing with Liquid's arm and Ocelot bring the son of a medium. The gameplay elements and story progression mirror MGS1 a lot too; big battles, huge lore reveals, driving and shooting sequences. MGS3 was the follow-up structurally that fans were craving after MGS2, but actually managed to answer some of the questions from the end of MGS2 by oddly going back in the past, which makes MGS3 kind of a flashback game.

>>721135038
>not really a trilogy. It's three sequels in a series

>>721136051
>throwaway line in MGS2 has an entire cutscene dedicated to it
>PROFOUND LORE CONNECTIONS BRAVO KOJANGLES I KNEEL
>the thing with liquid's arm and ocelot being son of a medium
MGS4 corrects that and says he was merely pretending, lmao

>>721136665
No, the arm possession WAS real, which is why he secretly replaced it with a robot arm and merely continued pretending he was possessed.

>>721125517
don’t know if it goes as far as contempt but by playing and progressing through links awakening you’re destroying the world of the game

>>721135847
>It's not a trilogy though
It is though
>game 1
>game 2
>game 3
Its a trilogy

>>721138808
MGS1 is not game 1, it's game 3.

>>721138979
it's the third metal gear game, but the first metal gear solid game
thus, it's game 1 in the MGS trilogy

>>721139061
But MGS is not a trilogy, there are at least 6 or more depending on what counts.

>>721139126
Its actually a trilogy of trilogies
Mgs trilogy (123)
Solid Snake Trilogy (124)
And Big Boss trilogy (3 PW V)

>>721128292
Are you pretending to be a Fukushima fan just because you're seething at Kojumbo
or did you actually like his main writing work, God Eater and Freedom Wars?

>>721126013
you shouldn't feel insulted unless you see yourself as combat veteran for playing video games

>>721125084
Why? They make threads on anyone they find interesting enough, for one reason or another. Seeing minor trolls trying to 4D chess with backfired personal army requests is also funny since they just do that on themselves.

>>721139207
This doesn't work at all aside from the Big Boss trilogy, which even then only has 2 games where Big Boss is the main character. MGS trilogy is at best a duology as 3 is only barely connected to MGS1 and 2. The Solid Snake trilogy doesn't make any sense without MGS3 since 4 relies so much on characters and lore from it. And none of these make sense without MG1/2 as the center piece which is why it doesn't really make sense to count the series as separate from the overall Metal Gear series or attempt to divide them into sub trilogies the way you might Star Wars since the entire franchise involves a very intricate and complex interweaving of lore and plotlines across multiple titles and eras and doesn't really make sense unless you play all of them.

>>721139207
>>721139319
Solid Snake's trilogy, is MG1 MG2 and Mgs1.

>>721125517
danganronpa v3

https://youtu.be/zSVesLcKYT8?si=EHEMEQzuoDp8wT5X&t=80

I am not finding MGS2 fun. This bomb defusal quest can go fuck itself. Also, I swear the enemy placement in this game only serves to troll the player.

>>721143657
i really don't know how you're supposed to play it without the radar especially with those fucking automatic doors

>>721143692
By spamming the first person view constantly, I guess.

>>721132898
>Bottom
no, because that's retarded.

basically anything you like about MGS1-3 is Fukushima, anything you dont like - Kojambles

>>721143778
first person and pressing up against walls. i've got respect for anyone who gets the highest ranks in MGS1 and 2. you have to play radarless in both and it makes me think you really just need to have a general idea of guard routes before going for a perfect rank.

>>721144110
I guess my biggest issue with MGS2 (and to some extent MGS1) is that it requires you to perform some very precise actions with some insanely fiddly controls. That and MGS2 still doesn't comprehend analog sticks, so I am sccidentally pressing myself against the wall when I want to climb it or do this stupid cartwheel instead dropping into crawl, shit like that.

>>721143903
how do you know that

>>721125517
Umineko

>>721137631
Why didn't ghost liquid just possess him to keep the arm? He's literally possessing him.

>>721126172
>>721128564

>>721147497
I thought he was only strong enough to take full control when Solid Snake was nearby

>>721132595
>metal gear standards
Fucking Lol

>>721129642
he got kidnapped by the cia and groomed into it that's the whole point of the game

>>721149143
Gamers like Raiden are easily brainwashed golems?

>>721149524
nah the message is more like "freedom is kinda fake if the government can mindfuck anyone into doing what they want"

it's all because kojima was really mad that he almost got fired for accidentally prophesizing 9/11

I thought mgs2 was only insulting snakefags. And as a zoomer who started with 2 it flew over my head

>>721151826
Whats the point of doing that though

>>721151826
it's more of an observation of our digital dominated future. we can archive our history better than ever before but we will also have VR trained soldier golems who cant tell real and virtual apart anymore. our future needs genuine human experiences to not become a catalogue of fake events.

>>721128112
>Drakengard 1 was mostly an accident
sick meme
I love retards that know nothinga bout game development, their planning and costs

drakengard was an accident as much as vr chat was an accident

>>721125517
People will argue about if Spec Ops actually did that or not but it's a fact that at least one of the two writers really fucking hates you.