Thread 722907323

What even was the Church of Yevon's goal?

Give people false hope that Sin would one day be gone for good while providing a legitimate means to make it temporarily fuck off + avoid another conflict that would probably lead to Sin 2.0

Fighting your aeons while YuFucker is possessing them was absolutely kino

>>722907323 (OP)
it was all a psyop from lady yunalesca. she's the real villain in all of the story. she's the one that established yevon's cult, she's the one that sacrificed his husband for the agenda, she's the one that kept the tradition of sacrificing human to perform the ultimate summon even after death.
all of this to prevent sin to destroy bevelle, that already won the war from being destroyed by sin, so to consolidate the win in the machina war. all of this while being a zanarkand citizen. I even suspect that was she who's psy operated to convince yu yevon to became the summoner of sin.
when confronted by the truth, she dropped the mask and showed her real nature, a monster that uses eons and corrupts them.
TO this day I dunno what her real goal was, machinas could defeat sin, so she had some role in psy op bevelle authorities, but only to preserve it and destroy every other city on the planet, maintaining a strict order and population control, banning any form of technology and wrong thinking

>>722907323 (OP)
Maintain control of Spira by promoting short term solutions while obscuring or sabotaging any long solutions, allowing them to stay in power and enjoy the benefits of it.
Think of it like the medical industry. If somebody suddenly came up with a cure for cancer, he would either be killed, slandered into obscurity, or dogpiled by the media and legal system until nobody trusted the cure, because medical corporations make far more money off prolinged and repeated treatments than one-off cures.

>>722907323 (OP)
Yevon is basically the flat-earth conspiracy, except real.

why did sin attack dream zanarkand?

>>722909057
Zanarkand gets BTFO, so she concocts a plan to at least temporarily put Sin away. That's really it. She's just a retard.

>>722909487
Jecht was Sin and even though he was a monster a speck of humanity shined through and he wanted to bring Tidus, his son, to Spira because he actually believed in him, knew that he could be a world-saving hero, and wanted to break him out of his little make-believe world so he could see the true nature of his reality.

>>722907323 (OP)
Kill the enemies of Zanarkand with the power of faith but Yunalesca was retarded as she did not take into consideration that the Aeons are sentient and might rebel against her, getting tired of living both on an endless dream and being the pets of future sacrifices to Yevon.

>>722909487
Jecht could from time to time take control of Sin and essentially decide what to do. Whether this was just to have it chill somewhere for awhile or head over to Dream Zanarkand to give his son a piggyback to the outside world.

I imagine this takes a lot of willpower so Jecht essentially has to rest and Sin becomes the mindless rampaging monster again.

>>722909507
yes the game is that, that is my fanfic. but the game really didn't really explain the machina war in depth, or why bevelle is still a large city, with functional technology. it's all just an "who cares" by writers, rightfully so, but again all of the post above is real in my mind

>>722910136
The story is written as they went, and they want to add twists and turns so that there's plot twists. FF7 and FF8 do the same thing, and FFX is a bit more coherent than FF8, it still suffers from needless convlution and things just sorta happening.

The fact that in FF10 they throw this random asshole who just loredumps the entire backstory in an area you already explored and likely won't return to just shows that the plot is kinda held together with tape.

>>722910379
and that is, as they say, is that

>>722910729
They kept making major plot twists late in development in all the games - and people speculate that FF8 needed one or two more of these re-writes to be fully coherent. It's very likely when they started the story they had no idea that Zanarkland is some ghost dream shit, they just had a nice way to start the story and have Tidus as the outsider in the story.

>>722910136
Bevelle isn't "still" a large city, it is a large city AGAIN. They had a thousand years to rebuild, and Sin doesn't attack Bevelle so it doesn't get periodically levelled like everywhere else.

>>722910136
>>722910379
This is 'Aragorns tax policy' level of autistic nitpicking. None of that matters or changes the plot if it were included, its just useless fluff.

The plot has zero holes and is perfectly coherent. You being too stupid to follow it, or just not liking it, is not a flaw with the game.

>>722911068
based.
Yeah I'm actually shocked how well it all works and ties together. It's a pretty straight-forward story.

>>722911068
It felt like they were making the story up as they want and kept wanting to add plot twists to keep it interesting and emotionally engaging. They always want their stories to be full of plot twists since they're so memorable. And then at the end they realized "oh shit we didn't explain like any of the back story in the main story. uh, throw in some NPC somewhere on the map that lore dumps everything in such an awkward sense."

last time I played the game I literally had real hardware and a CRT TV, so I forget the guy's name. He's some asshole on the mountain in the late game.

>>722911068
>central to the explanation given to you for why Sin exists is that Sin hates machina
>the largest city in Spira by a huge margin freely uses machina weapons and actual robots
>nobody ever brings up the massive incongruity of the Church of Yevon using machina or how Bevelle has avoided being levelled by the machina hating Sin
>especially when the Al-Bhed are hated for... using machina weapons and robots

>>722911283
It is directly addressed in the main plot.

>>722911008
to my memory nowhere is stated that bevelle was reconstruct, but I played it 20+ years ago.
the fact that the bahamuth temple is full of machinas and waka gets mad about it made me think that bevelle was never destroyed, like the other cities, the clergy just got rid of the flashy tech and kept for herself the knowledge to, at least, maintain it.
sin is stated that is attracted by large concentration of people, before kilika if I recall, so is why there are no big city and luka is up just because of the bravery of the crusaders.

for me yunalesca still had a connection with her father, that prevented sin to destroy bevelle or luka like the other cities. sin also attack bevelle after you defeat yunalesca

>>722911283
>>722911368
Total anti-tech didn't take over until after the first calm when Sin came back and wrecked any remaining technological cities.

>>722911203
>and this happened, then this happened, then this happened, then this happened, etc

That's how the backstory sounds like. Realistically, it's written so that Jecht can be the core of Sin and that Tidus can have a personal reason to fight Sin.

>>722911283
>central to the explanation given to you for why Sin exists is that Sin hates machina
This is a deception, same as you being led to believe Tidus time-traveled.
Sin is "programmed" to go where there's large groups of people. Machina allows tech to get to the point where metropolises like Zanarkand exist, ergo Sin will attack these places. Sin won't attack Bevelle because it's in its programming. Sin rarely attacks Home because despite them using Machina, their population in the middle of the desert never exploded.

>>722907323 (OP)
So, here's the deal with the Yevon faith. It's the faith of Zanarkand's priesthood. And, it's magical principals are taught to Spira's population to keep the "Sin," Yu Yevon from achieving godhood and wiping out all life so that Dream Zanarkand will live forever. Sustained by the human sacrificial pilgrimage and summoner act of creating the final summon, which becomes the next Sin. "Resetting" the Yu Yevon. Until he gets too big again and has to be put down like a rabid dog. The reason why Machinia weapons are outlawed is because they can conceivably reach a point to where it could exterminate Sin without the sacrifice and result in the death of dream Zandarkand. The reason why the summons and faith help Titus destroy Zanarkand is because they're suffering in eternal agony in their own self created hell. Their "happy" afterlife/paradise ways heavy on them because they have to maintain the eternal dream. The Guado are kikes that took advantage of the situation and used it to seize control of the immense magical ceremonies and produce a hypothetical Messiah/god to claim control of the world in the form of Seymour. The biggest secret of FF10 is that it actually has a good plot buried beneath Titus's monotone, introspective engrish translated narration.

>>722911813
But why would Yu Yevon program into Sin to never attack Bevelle? Bevelle is the reason he had to make a Dream Zanarkand in the first place.

>>722913643
Because they are much more useful as servants than they are obliterated. He can't rule the world from inside a giant whale, he needs proxies to do his bidding while he holds the reigns. If everyone knew he was running the show from the giant whale, everyone would be getting together to find a REAL way to get rid of him. Instead the "church" misdirects them all day with temporary solutions that are just good enough to keep people from trying to find a permanent one.

It's the same reason the aristocracy invented politicians.

>>722911491
>but I played it 20+ years ago
Then maybe you need to play it again and pay attention this time before you enter into a discussion about it

>>722913643
Because there is a giant fuck off apocalypse robot under Bevelle that will Samson Option everything if Sin fucks with it.

>>722913643
sin is formed by the final aeon that defeated him and yu yevon. sin it's basically just another aeon, but the "mind" of sin it's linked to the person who became the final aeon, jecht.
bevelle as luka the game explains that are defended by the crusaders and warrior monks.
yu yevon has lost all of his will, he is just dreaming and performing the summoning of sin after defeat, like a simple life form.
the thing of sin never attacking bevelle isn't in the game, but is in the game that sin is the cause of the destruction of spira and it cities, motivated just by the mere presence of large group of people. I watched also a quick video to refresh my memory and sin did, in fact, destroyed zanarkand upon creation, so the game just explain that bevelle and luka are the last bastion of humanity and being defended just by distracting sin away. not a big deal, but since I am an asperger of the highest order, never got satisfied with the explanation.

>>722915679
so where is it stated that bevelle got destroyed and reconstructed?

>>722910379
>in FF10 they throw this random asshole who just loredumps the entire backstory
The funniest thing that X-2 reveals is that this dude is 1000 years old and Unsent and just refuses to die because he likes loredumping that much.

>>722907323 (OP)
>What even was the Church of Yevon's goal?
Goal = "Maintain population in Spira"
Reason = "Population in Spira has tendency to oversaturate"
Purpose = "SIN will DESTROY EVERYONE it finds"
Method = "Give positive hope for the masses via religious teachings"
Effectivenes = it's worked for at least 1000 years...

Primary Postive = Gives reason to live; without hope, population would suicide
Primary Negative = food processing is pre-industrial; no refrigerators

>>722917684
He's based and I liked his lore dumps.

>>722917684
But he does pass away after talking to you for the Nth time, so I guess at some point he realised enough is enough?

>>722907323 (OP)
to drive me into the arms of a passionate and loving Al Bhed woman to have a torrid romantic love affair

>>722909057
>when confronted by the truth
truth? or superior force? remember how they make fun of yuna for having so many guardians. maybe confronting yunalesca was never attempted before because the few pilgrimages that even make it are parties of no more than three

tidus is kind of like a sentient ai coming out of the computer to shut himself off

Albhed could be here he thought

>>722918798
Yeah, FFX is a Holodeck episode

>>722909057
>machinas could defeat sin
Can they?
Operation Mihen failed.
Did they simply need 5 times as more machinas?

>>722919057
>>722907323 (OP)
Why are regular dudes with swords stronger than guns and cannons?

>>722907323 (OP)
To keep the world order since they didn't believe Sin could be defeated for real.

>>722919564
They're not. Machina works quite well actually. But it is forbidden since it causes Sin to attack as that was its original purpose, to fight against Bevelle's machine armies.

>>722918539
true, but I suspect that confronting yunalesca was just never tried, in a coordinated fashion.
this is the 4d chess of auron and jecht, after all, jecht an outsider that has different values from the people of spira, and auron who is so incorruptible that got into trouble with the clergy. and even that the first time wasn't even attempted, after auron discovered the truth went to dream zanarkand and here plotted with jecht.
Yuna becoming a summoner I don't know if was by design or just a coincidence, but in all of this random chance played a big role. Yunalesca knew that the final truth was just for the high clergy and the useful idiot guardian who survived the final battle, so anyone involved was or dead or so far into the plot that had all the interest to keep the yevon religion alive.

>>722919057
you defeat sin with a couple of zapping shots from the airship and some mele, yes a big part was to distract sin, but bevelle could just deploy, as you say, a ton of machina and just overwhelm it.

>>722919057
Operation Mihen was designed to fail. They wanted machina to look bad, and Yevon to look good.

Evil bug

>>722919057
Bevelle has nuclear-level machina 1000 years ago when fighting Zanarkand and they still couldn't beat SIN. They had to capitulate.
And Zanarkand "disappeared." They turned themselves into a Fayth on top of Mount Gagazet so they could "never die" and "summon Dream Zanarkand" which was just an Aeon of their memories.
FFX begins when the Zanarkand Fayth says, after 1000 years of non-stop dreaming, "fuck this, we're tired, holy shit someone please KILL US."

>>722920135
But Sin dies because you killed Jecht, that required entering Sin's body and having knowledge of what exactly to look for once inside

>Mika: Not in vain. No matter how many summoners give their lives, Sin cannot be truly defeated. The rebirth cannot be stopped. Yet the courage of those who fight gives the people hope. There is nothing futile in the life and death of a summoner.
>Auron: Never futile… but never ending.
>Mika: Indeed, that is the essence of Yevon.
>Yuna: Lord Mika!
>Mika: Yevon is embodied by eternal, unchanging continuity, summoner.
>Yuna: No…that can’t be right!
>Mika: Those who question these truths– they are traitors!
>Yuna: Lord Mika!

>>722921189
>Lulu: This…this cannot be! The teachings state that we can exorcise Sin with complete atonement! It’s been our only hope all these years!
>Yunalesca: Hope is…comforting. It allows us to accept fate, however tragic it might be.

>Yunalesca: Yevon’s teachings and the Final Summoning give the people of Spira hope. Without hope, they would drown in their sorrow. Now, choose. Who will be your fayth? Who will be the one to renew Spira’s hope?

>>722920875
you are right, bevelle couldn't have know what sin really was so just the panic had prevented them to try to stop sin.
but if they tried I think they would have succeeded, yu yevon require a new aeon to form sin, so after the defeat by machinas he couldn't reborn the monster

>>722919057
The big ass laser gun nearly toasted him. Deploy 1 or 2 more of those and youre set.

>>722907323 (OP)
what do you mean their goal?
its clearly stated. they keep it all going because its the best they have and it turned into religious and cultural sacrilege to even imply you can fix it otherwise.

Grand Wizard Wakka is still peak comedy and I will die on this hill.

>>722908791
>>722916743
As racist as he is, it's mostly just his coping mechanism to dismiss any blame on his brother.
True, he's a big fan of religion (as he should be), but he loves his family. His little brother, Chappu, was a good guy.

>It CANNOT be HIS FAULT he died!
>I gave him a sword to use! I gave him "Brotherhood!" We loved each other! His swrod was blessed by family! It was blessed with skills!
>But a fucking Al-Bhed PIECE OF SHIT gave him a GUN to use when Sin attacked!
>My brother wouldn't have died if it weren't for that damned gun! THAT DAMNED GUN!
>DAMN IT! DAMN GUNS! DAMN MACHINA! DAMN THE AL-BHED!!!

He got over his racism when the full history, lore, and manipulation of Yevon is revealed to him and his able to get over his brother's unavoidable death. And then marry/fuck his brother's fiance and have a kid with her.

Tidus and Chappu looked alike, apparently.

>>722908791
Betta ded than al-bhed me brudda

>>722922382
I always forget about that sword, even though it's being held by Tidus in basically every concept official art created.

>>722907323 (OP)
Just to continue to exist. Their goal of just keeping up status quo was so powerful that the leaders could stay as unsent with only that goal in mind.

>>722907323 (OP)
There was a pervasive belief that if humanity realized that Sin was "truly" unstoppable then humanity at large would have given up and accepted death, or at least stopped having children, instead of persevering. Yevon was created as a faith to keep steady the belief that Sin would be gone one day and humanity permitted to thrive anew.

>>722918798
FFX is what happens when japs watch the Matrix movies.

tfw i just realized the tines jecht was gone when tidus was a kid he was sin and the times he was jecht hed been banished temporarily by a summoner

>>722919057
Yes. Consider that the Fahrenheit was all that was necessary to blow a hole in Sin, albeit a semi-lucid, somewhat becalmed, actively suicidal Sin.
With enough firepower you can just kill the damn thing, albeit machina cannot defeat Sin for GOOD because Yu Yevon will just float away to make Sin 5 if you don't have a summoner on hand to keep catching his attention.

>>722923168
it's the best sword you can get for 2 decent sized parts of the game so thats pretty odd

>>722925402
What retardation is this.

>>722911583
>decimate
>devastate
Can I please nitpick in this nitpicky thread? This really, really has to stop. I'm being Wierd Al, here...

>>722922382
>(as he should be)
Prime bait, ngl

>>722907323 (OP)

I choose intellectual and mechanical progress and sexo girls instead of praying to a false God and supporting primitive monkey-brained religious fanatics and racists

>>722907323 (OP)
>Read the novel
>The author randomly decided to add a racist dude from ancient time who hates Albhed
>The last memory the dude has is finding his crush in the bed of the man he hated most while two Albhed holds him down
>His crush turned him a Sex Fayth so he is forever stuck between the living and death, forever reliving the day he dies
For what fucking purpose

>>722910136
>machina war
I actually remember this from some of the side materials.
>Magician enslaved the rest of humanity with magic, and put themselves as the superior caste that is above everyone else
>A dude very good mechanic and scientist wanted to break the situation and rally the normies
>The summoners were extremely pretentious and had a tradition of abandoning their birth name and donning the name of a God from mythology to build their faith mojo every generation
>Mechanic dude decided to change his name to Alb, the God of the Workers to put him on the same level as the ruling caste
>Hence the creation of Albhed
>However, the longer the war goes on the more extremist the mechanic nation becomes, (one of the writer compared them to nazi), and they started performing genocide and racial cleansing against anyone with magic. This is due to the former slaves' grievance turning into pure hatred
>The magic caste just doesn't have enough people and logistics leading to them slowly losing

>>722911283
>Sin hates machina
it doesn't Sin is made to protect dream zan and destory anything that comes near it

>>722928948
>>The summoners were extremely pretentious and had a tradition of abandoning their birth name and donning the name of a God from mythology to build their faith mojo every generation
This feels very dumb. How many Gods would it take to name them all?

>>722929592
Naming popes after apostles is stupid, how many would it take to name them all?

>>722907323 (OP)
To ensure that Yu Yevon would always have a new aeon to possess.

>>722928948
Man all that only for the rest of the world to come crawling back to the magic users anyway. Humanity in FFX deserves to be enslaved

>>722929217
As seen in the literal introductory sequence to the FUCKING game, that is why it's not supposed to approach Dream Zanarkand. It immediately went berserk on the place, anon. It's supposed to DEFEND it, not APPROACH it. Jecht had to override Sin's programming to pick up Tidus.

What exactly is wrong with sacrificing a single human to preserve peace for decades?

>>722931339
its like 10 years max

>>722931427
The Mayan sacrifices were more frequent.

>>722931339
You're looking at it wrong. Everyone that Sin kills in the time it takes a new summoner to complete the journey is the sacrifice. All the summoners ad guardians wo die along the pilgrimage are the sacrifice. All the Crusaders wo try to lure Sin away from villages and cities and get btfo'd are the sacrifices. Every person who gets killed by fiends that are created when Sin levels a town and there's no summoner to send the dead who can't accept that they got wiped out for no reason are the sacrifice. It's literally a spiral of death, and the reason why Seymour crashed out and decided to just kill everyone all at once instead.

>>722927138
GRRR DAMN PUFFY BRAT!
NEEDS YEVON CORRECTION!!!

>>722931702
And they use war prisoners, not their own. It's a moot point anyway because the lesson at the end of the day is that human will never beat magic

>>722931339
I want to add on to >>722931758 because his post was fantastic. The entire idea of a sacrifice is that one person is giving up something for the benefit of someone or something else. The sacrifice here being Summoners and Guardianship and Crusaders giving up their lives to bring a world without Sin one step closer

>Tidus: What’s the calm?
>Lulu: The Calm is a time of peace. It comes after a summoner defeats Sin, and lasts until Sin reappears.
>Tidus: Eh… huh?
>Yuna: Sin dies and is reborn.
>Tidus: I get it! I thought it was weird. Yuna’s dad defeated Sin ten years ago, right? But Sin’s still here! Didn’t make much sense till now.
>Tidus: Wait… If it just comes back…
>Yuna: Don’t say it isn’t worth it…Because it is.
>Narration: Even for a little while…people can sleep in their beds without being afraid. That kind of time is worth anything. Don’t say it isn’t worth it. Your words that day, Yuna– I remember them well.

But that's not what's happening. The Final Summoning was never, ever going to work. Those people were throwing their lives away on a false promise. Even if a million Final Summonings happened, Sin would never go away that way. That's why Yevon is in the wrong. They know full well that they're lying to everyone.

>>722921189
>sentences the party to death
>gives them Yevon approved execution
>they survive
>they escape
>next thing you know they come back and tell you they killed the demigod of your religion and the only way to create the final aeon
>send yourself to hell immediately
Maester Mika was a funny guy.

>>722907323 (OP)
I've had a glitched disc or something, which didn't allow me to save, so I've never managed to get far in the game.
So, what's the story with Tidus? Why does the game start in some sort of modern utopia, if people in this game hate technology?

>>722907323 (OP)
>be the church
>be haunted by summon final boss
>have sequel's mecha final boss stashed in your vatican's basement
>keep using human sacrifice to pacify summon final boss a couple of decades for generations
>a weirdo isolated trive of desertic island dwellers scraps together a big ray gun from ancient junk scavenged from the bottom of the ocean
>everyone discriminates them for being blonde, green eyed and smart
>their scrap ray gun is so powerfull it blows one of summon final boss's arms off

Just imagine what the Al Bhed could have achieved had they have access to the lavoratory hidden beneath Bevelle
as usal, self important zealots ruining the world for everyone else then larping as the only solution while doing nothing despite being able to

>>722932175
>Even if a million Final Summonings happened, Sin would never go away that way. That's why Yevon is in the wrong. They know full well that they're lying to everyone.
Did they ever claim he would go away permanently?

>>722932298
What's doubly funny is that before they told him what happened in Zanarkand, he actually thought Yuna was going to do the Final Summoning anyway

>Mika: Why are you here? You must go and defeat Sin, quickly! You have obtained the Final Aeon from Yunalesca, have you not?
>Tidus: Well, we did meet her.
>Yuna: We fought and defeated her.
>Mika: What!
>Auron: Summoners and guardians will be sacrificed for the Final Summoning no more!
>Mika: You have profaned and subverted a thousand-year-old tradition? Fools! Infants! Do you realize what you’ve done? You’ve taken away the only means of calming Sin!

>>722931427
According to the Ultimania Omega, the Calms are actually pretty short.
Braska's only lasted a year before Sin reappeared.

>In the past normal people rises up against their summoners master with mecha
>In the future, normal people are taught to hate technology and the status of summoners are higher than ever
Funny in retrospect

>>722932374
Yes. The belief is that Sin was the embodiment of their sins and arrogance. And that while the Final Summoning would bring a Calm, Sin will keep coming back into Spira is 100% faithful

>Wakka: Well, then you tell me! Where did Sin come from, huh?
>Rikku: I…I don’t know!
>Wakka: Hmph! You bad-mouth Yevon and that’s all you can come up with?
>Rikku: But…that doesn’t mean you should do whatever they say without thinking! Nothing will ever change that way!
>Wakka: Nothing has to change!
>Rikku: You want Sin to keep coming back? There might be a way to stop it, you know!
>Wakka: Sin will be gone once we atone for our past mistakes!
>Rikku: When? How?
>Wakka: If we keep faith in Yevon’s teachings it will be gone one day!
>Rikku: Why do I even bother?

>Lulu: Sin is the punishment for, and the incarnation of, crimes we have committed.
>Tidus: Hmm. So, no one really knows what it is?
>Lulu: There’s no need to know, so no one asks. You run or you fight. That is really all you can do. There’s no sense brooding over it.
>Tidus: What, that’s all? I mean, you don’t even wonder?
>Lulu: (Chuckles) You really do come from a world where there is no Sin, like you say.

>Yunalesca: Sin is an inevitable part of Spira’s destiny. It is neverending.
>Wakka: Neverending? But…but…if we atone for our crimes, Sin will stop coming back, ya? Someday, it’ll be gone, ya?
>Yunalesca: Will humanity ever attain such purity?
>Wakka: Uh…
>Lulu: This…this cannot be! The teachings state that we can exorcise Sin with complete atonement! It’s been our only hope all these years!
>Yunalesca: Hope is…comforting. It allows us to accept fate, however tragic it might be.
>Tidus: No!

This is how they justify the racism towards the Al Bhed. To the rest of Spira, the Al Bhed refusing to be faithful and give up machina for Yevon usually the reason Sin keeps coming back. It's their fault they're still suffering

>>722932343
In the beginning of the game you're in a simulated world like the matrix, which is just a snapshot in time from the peak of civilization when they had a city full of machina that kept everything running. That snapshot in time was 1000 years ago and it's where Tidus is from, he's part of the simulation and not a real human.

After the intro you exit that matrix world as Tidus and then have an adventure in the real world where those machina cities got destroyed long ago. The real world is a lot more primitive and religious so Tidus has a hard time adjusting. Later you save the world, but in saving the world you shut down that matrix world and since Tidus is part of the matrix world he also disappears when it gets shut down. This is very sad.

>>722907323 (OP)
Status quo; just enough death to stay in stasis

>>722932374
Yes. >>722921294
>Lulu speaking with Yunalesca: The teachings state that we can exorcise Sin with complete atonement!
>Yunalesca's response: We're lying to you, but it's easier to cope that way. If we told everyone the trutch, they'd stop trying.

>>722933106
Wait, what? If Tidus is a simulated computer program, how is he walking around in the real world? Was he downloaded into a human body that coincidentally looks just like him?

>>722933591
He's an Aeon.
Dream Zanarkand is an Aeon.
The Fayth on top of Mount Gagazet are the survivors of the Zanarkand/Bevella machina war from 1000 years ago.
They're tired of dreaming, but Sin won't let them die.
Please kill Sin.
Let them die.

>>722933591
You really should play the game. There's several reasons why Tidus walking around makes sense in context

>>722933740
At this point my Playstation 2 is history, so no, anon, I don't think i'll be able to do that.

>>722933591
Tidus is more like an energy being than a computer program

>>722933591
>how is he walking around in the real world?
Be careful how much "reality" you place in the fictional world of the video game "Final Fantasy X" which has pyreflies, dragons, Thungaga, and giant cat-people.
"Dream" doesn't quite have the same literal meaning in the island Besaid as it does in Kentucky.

>>722933827
I'm glad you're enjoying the thread, then! Discussing story is fun, especially with people who aren't aware of its niches~

>>722919883
Serious missed opportunity to have one of the characters fight with machina weapons

Brudda, I think we should go into the al bhed neighborhoods and just clean them up, you know what I'm saying?

>>722934151
Rikku's "Mix" ability usually creates things like "grenades" if that means anything to you...

>>722933591
Not digital, more spiritual. He's a magical construct. He is still solid, the dream city he came from is physically located out on the southern ocean.

>>722933591
The technology to create the simulation (Deam Zanarkand) is not computers but magic that is being cast by dead humans who are stuck in statue form. Coincidentally those humans kind of look like the humans in the pods in the movie Matrix. The simulation is also in a physical location, not just inside a computer, but it's separated from everything else so normal people can't interact with it, just like the matrix in the movie. Also, Auron is Morpheus.

>>722911873
Part of the reason for the bad translation is because the voice clips had to be the exact same length as the original Japanese clips or the game would crash. The translators attempted to match both the length of the clips and the Japanese lip sync, which they compared to attempting to rewrite a movie script in haiku. and the laughing scene makes perfect sense in context

>>722907323 (OP)
>confronted with the reality of his shitty religion
>M-MUH TEACHINGS!!!!

>>722931339
cause the system was breaking down. calms were as long as 50 years, but its gotten shortened to 10 and is bound to shorten still.

>>722927138
https://exhentai.org/g/1243709/a11b2667d4/

>>722934648
why am I looking at a sad panda?

>>722926894
epic fedora atheists arent really that common in a setting like spira.

>>722921609
It's an irrelevant time wasting question dumb faggot

>>722932459
>>722931427
10 years of Calm per High Summoner at most.
4 High Summoners are known and venerated.
Sin has been around for 1000 years or so (maybe 800, rounded up).

The maths aren't mathing, unless the High Summoning is quite the recent discovery

>>722926036
replay the game retard he dissappears several times throughout tidus childhood

>>722937891
>>722925402
This is bait, right? Jecht wasn't Sin at all times, other people were Sin before him

>>722937891
Because he went on training trips out at sea, which is where he encountered the previous Sin.

>>722937852
high summoner is just a title awarded to those who bring the Calm. iirc it's implied there are others, those are just recent ones.

>>722934490
Jean Baudrillard wrote about the idea that reality is just some sort of replica or simulcra or something which is what the Matrix is based on, but yeah its just a similar basis i guess though the execution is pretty different. The dreamers are everyone in Spira and they're not living false lives only the dreams are, but ill give u that neo making his abilities in the matrix real or whatever is basically the same as tidus coming back in x-2

>>722938138
the sea is a metaphor for the dreaming tho so its not that simple i dont think

>>722937852
>The maths aren't mathing,
Two answers. One, there was a fifth High Summoner, but Yunalesca isn't given the title because she's treated more like a legendary figure in the modern day. Second: high summoners pretty much never win. Summoners either die on their pilgrimages, refuse to make a Final Aeon, or their Final Aeon isn't strong enough due to their bond with their guardian proving insufficient. They challenge Sin and simply die. Additionally, at least one other has taken their Final Aeon and simply returned to live his life without ever challenging Sin (Seymour).

>>722938357
no, that time its the literal sea

>>722938357
The sea is not a metaphor for anything, it is literally the ocean.

>>722938138
Every time he went swimming, Jecht actually trained with the previous Sin and that's how he became Zanarkand's top blitzball player. Eventually the previous Sin tricked Jecht into switching places with him and that's how Jecht became Sin and disappeared. The previous Sin is Auron and that's why he was in Dream Zanarkand watching over Tidus.

Just play the game again retard, I'm sure you'll find this there somewhere.

>>722938065
Yeah but he becomes sin at the end of yunas dads pilgrimage, hes not always active so thats what im talking about, i got the impression he left more than once tho so maybe not

>>722938438
but its the sea in the dream zanarkand so its not the literal sea
>>722938476
It is throughout the whole game tidus comes out of the sea at the start and end of the game as he comes back from dream to Spira

>>722938664
Dream Zanarkand is a real physical place out in the southwestern sea. It is made of pyreflies, but it's just as solid as every other aeon.

>>722907323 (OP)
Just continue the status quo forever because any alternatives might be worse and at least the current way works. And the message of the game that its this very mentality that allowed all the death and destruction to happen in the first place, illustrated through some clever worldbuilding. Pretty good stuff, X's story is deeper than most give it credit for.

>>722907323 (OP)
The only thing that matters. Control. Must control everything. Must control. Controoooooool.

>>722938731
the only reason jecht could leave is because of sin tho its not a normal place and i would assume the sea would connect since tidus jecht etc can go into the sea before they meet sin

>>722911873
This, you got it 100% right, though I like Tidus's monologues and how X tied a grand world saving narrative with a more personal character story, I really like when stories do that.

>>722927138
rikku's pussy is stinky. yevon summoner pussy is pure and fragrant

>>722938664
its the sea around dream zanarkand. dream zanarkand may not be real in the sense that its a facsimile made in the image of the real city, but its still a physical landmass somewhere below the hemisphere. dream is from the fayth's point of view but to people in the real world its as real as getting assblasted by ifrit's hellfire

>>722939195
then they can leave zanarkand do you see why that doesnt make sense jecht couldnt leave the dream without sin, so how is the sea which youre saying is part of spira part of where he can go while hes still a dream?

>>722939314
nta but have you tried swimming in the open ocean. even in a fantasy world where people can hold their breath longer you're not traveling a continent's distance on your own without a vehicle of some kind

>>722939314
its just weird to me that it would be both impossible for them to leave but possible to for them to go out into the surrounding sea where they could interact with real people from spira which doesnt seem to be a thing

>>722938975
There's no real disconnect. Touching Sin makes them go all funny (they're made of pyreflies and Sin is made of a fuckbillion pyreflies so they mess with your head) but he's not really the necessary element. All he did was pick Jecht up with his gravity storm and fling him way further out to sea than he ever wanted to go, and he got picked up by sailors similar to how Tidus got picked up by Al Bhed.

>>722939514
It's not impossible for them to leave, they just don't have any desire to leave. There's no wanderlust in Zanarkand, and all their boats are short ranging.

>>722939664
I could see this as an explanation comsidering how far away it is from the mainland

>>722938270
I'm just saying the game is very obviously heavily inspired by the Matrix movies like a lot of media from that time. You can kind of even see when they got inspired since the game actually had a totally different concept and plot early in development with none of the Zanarkand crap in it. I don't think it was even a Final Fantasy game to begin with. The plot was basically Clair Obscur: Expedition 33, people had a limited lifespan of something like 18 years old and the hero party was trying to stop that from happening by trying to find a cure. Those themes of inevitable death at a young age still got left in the final product, it's also why the main cast is so young even if they don't look like they should be.

When they decided to change the story, I guess they were scrambling for inspiration and just chose the most prominent thing in the zeitgeist and did their own spin on the matrix simulation world idea.

>>722939903
Didn't they say it was inspired by The Sixth Sense?

>>722939903
Matrix was a really big movie in 1999 which is when development started afaik so it's possible but it's not that unusual

10 has my favorite aesthetic of any FF. I love the tropical, SEA vibes.

>>722940441
>amazing water graphics
>spend 99% of your time in the level inside the forest

>>722907323 (OP)
Yevon is basically pic related

>>722940694
Or just do RT and only do the part on the nice beach!

Though not gonna lie, the jungle area is also very nice.

>>722940863
forgor pic

Why didnt he possess Tidus?

>>722940327
>SEA
Besaid is Okinawa, Kilika is Kyushu, Luka is Hiroshima, Macalania is the Japanese Alps, Bevelle is Tokyo, Bikanel is Tottori, Gagazet and Zanarkand are Hokkaido

>>722931758
>Seymour crashed out

>>722941029
Might have to do with Tidus working in a completely different way from an Eon in battles

>>722938975
Sin whisked Jecht away, further than anyone could travel, by pure coincidental accident. It was a miraculous event of coincidence; Sin was nearby, Jecht was drunk.

Jecht washed up in Bevelle and jailed as a lunatic since he was obviously drunk and screaming "I'm a famous blitzball player from Zanarkand!"
Tidus washed up in Besaid and treated as a "Sin Toxin" lunatic since he had no idea where he was and screaming "I'm a famous blitzball player from Zanarkand!"

The "sea" is never fake. "Dream Zanarkand" is never fake. There is no missing connection. Dream Zanarkand is a real place, out at sea. Sin is a real beast, out at sea. Jecht is a real being, out at sea. Tidus is a real being, dragged out of Dream Zanarkand by his Father/Jecht/Sin and flung out at sea.

Jecht's event was random coincidence
Tidus' event was conspired plot by his father.
This was a MIRACULOUS set of circumstances that led the Fayth (the boy you always see at the temples, remember?) to believe, "We are Dream Zanarkand. We are Jecht. We are Sin. We are Tidus. We can kill Sin, now. Thank God, we can die, now."

>>722941227
Look man, I just love the landscapes and environments of FFX. It has a magic that I've never really gotten in other entries.

>>722941378
>Dream Zanarkand is a real place, out at sea
Yet it's not on the map once you obtain access to Fahrenheit, whereas other secret islands are, curious

>>722939603
>Tidus got picked up by Al Bhed.
Most people forget about Baaj Temple, even if it's one of the first events in the game. They even forget meeting Rikku, there.

>>722938398
>high summoners pretty much never win.
By definition, if they fail to defeat Sin, they're merely "summoners", with no adjective

>>722939903
You might be surprised, but, the concept of "The Matrix" (1999) is NOT new in human mythology, religion, or cultures. American Hollywood film culture doesn't supercede East Asian religious thought or ancient Indus River Valley Hinduism ideas of "fantasy dream worlds" just because you recognize Keanu Reeves.

>>722939989
Part of the plot was with the people who are alive, but actually already dead. If I remember correctly that was also supposed to be the case for Tidus, that he was already dead, but they scrapped that and made him from Dream Zanarkand instead, which is arguably worse than being dead since he was never "real" to begin with.


>>722940136
Once you play the game with the Matrix in mind, it's just too blatant. I don't think they ripped the movie's plot, but just the idea of a simulated world, which was practically non-existent in mainstream media before Matrix, and ubiquitous afterwards. Both the matrix and Dream Zanarkand depict the peak of civilization, main character starts out in the matrix and escapes it into the real world guided by a cool mentor figure wearing small round black sunglasses, yes Auron wears sunglasses because of Morpheus, you can see from early concept art he didn't have them before. Even the people maintaining the Dream Zanarkand are people fixed in place in this weird tower statue and look somewhat like the people who are in the matrix that in the real world getting harvested for electricity in the pods, there are just too many coincidences.

>>722941598
Curious to you, but, it's not like the airship came with a fully-realized map.
They had to input locations for it to travel there... and no one in Spira knew where-the-fuck Dream Zanarkand was out at sea.

And they didn't have time to go looking.
They had to go kill Jecht/Sin/Yu Yevon ASAP, while Jecht was still passive listening to his hymns.
And Dream Zanarkand officially ceased existing altogether when you beat the game and the Fayth can rest, now.

>>722938209
>those are just recent ones.
Nope, high summoners like Gandolf and Ohalland are said to have lived centuries before the story takes place.

This implies that Sin's absence is a very unusual event.
Makes you even wonder why people worship High Summoners at all if Calms are so rare and short-lived

>>722942307
The party (i.e. (You) ) found the Omega Ruins island by pixel-hunting the map though

>>722942315
>Makes you even wonder why people worship High Summoners at all
Because they bring a Calm. The END apocalyptic death. For years!
>Calms are so rare and short-lived
You seem to misconstrue "rare, short-lived" as being the same as "abhorrent, meaningless."
No.
People will worship a MOUSE if it could bring a Calm for the entire planet.

>>722942517
Very true!
You, the Video Game Player, certainly had time for side-quests. It's like Final Fantasy X was a video game with fun end-game content to explore.
Not Tidus, though.

>>722942085
>but just the idea of a simulated world, which was practically non-existent in mainstream media before Matrix
Nigga what
I watched this shit before the Matrix was ever thought of
Lawnmower Man came out before even this
Books did it way earlier too.

The Wachowski trannies are just a couple of hacks who got a big marketing push

>>722942085
You sound like you recently learned how to recognize what a piano sounds like. You never really knew what a "piano" was, before, but now? It's like EVERY song has it. Hearing a piano is entirely "mainstream!"

>>722941587
I hope you're working that beach retirement anon.

>>722943282
>Dude, The Beatles never used a piano. But it's totally common now! Even Daft Punk uses an electric piano!
>What about Mozart? Bach?
>Dude, shut up; nobody listens to that crap.
Hmm.

>>722942085
>the idea of a simulated world, which was practically non-existent in mainstream media before Matrix

>FFX prequel never ever
It hurts.

>>722944753
What would be the point
You already know how it begins, how it goes, and how it ends. The heroes lose.

>>722944834
Sounds like RIPE emotional gut punch material. Seeing Jecht go through his character arc only to have to sacrifice himself at the end would be amazing.

>>722944908
But we already saw all that. Didn't you watch the Jecht Spheres?

>>722907323 (OP)
>What even was the Church of Yevon's goal?
Its an JRPG church aka keep everybody poor, ignorant and full of fear while acting evil like retards doing nothing.

>>722945264
that's just IRL church

>>722944753
Fun fact: as a kid, I started FF with 10, and playing it, I would assume that FF9 was about Jecht, Braska and Auron

>>722920420
>They turned themselves into a Fayth on top of Mount Gagazet so they could "never die" and "summon Dream Zanarkand" which was just an Aeon of their memories.
They didn't do that, Yu Yevon did that. He's the summoner binding all the Fayth to Spira as a testament to Zanarkand's defiance against Bevelle. The Zanarkand-Bevelle war is still being waged by him, even though he's now a mindless spirit acting entirely on instinct within Sin's shell.

The Fayth are tired and want to pass on to the Farplane, and so created two unique person-shaped Aeons within Dream Zanarkand to conduct their will in Spira and free them: Jecht and Tidus. Jecht failed, so the job fell to Tidus.

>>722946337
Jecht didn't fail, he was the first step in the plan. They needed to give Sin a weakness it did not previously have, that could be exploited by the next step. Jecht's "lingering will".

>>722946814
Jecht failed because Braska couldn't think of another way to stop Sin besides the Final Aeon, and so opted for a temporary Calm since he realized he was but a small piece of the puzzle and the true scope was way beyond him. This wasn't part of the plan, because the Final Aeon is strong enough to destroy Sin's shell. They just saw no other way.

>>722945040
The pitch for Stranger of Paradise 2 was the Braska prequel. Since SoP more of an alt universe thing they could change a lot about the plot.

>>722947365
Source?

>>722947440
https://stinger-magazine.com/interviews/interview-with-the-director-of-stranger-of-paradise-nobumichi-kumabe/

if zanarkand was the hippy summoner country and bevelle was the high tech one how come dream zanarkand from the start of the game was way more high tech than anything else in the game?

>>722948312
They both had technology, both were high-tech city-states. Bevelle just had more guns.

>>722941227
a lot of FFX temples and architecture are SEA buddhism aesthetic.
Some of the cities you pointed out are not even reomvely similar to Japan except Okinawa and southern Japan

>>722948312
Tech-Tech vs Magitech

>>722948397
>>722948312
I always wondered how come if Zanarkand was the summoner city Tidus didnt know anything about summoning, like he'd never even heard of it. Weird to dream up a copy of your city and culture but leave out a huge part of it.

>>722948312
>>722948612
idk if this is the truth or not but I always thought that dream zanarkand was like an idealized utopia version of zanarkand. I mean the country was at fucking war so I could see Yu Yevon wanting to make his dream version all peaceful and stuff, where the populace never needed to worry about summoning, just going to blitzball games and partying.

>>722909057
Man, I love Final Fantasy X. That moment when you defeat Yunalesca and you realize that the only known, proven way of getting rid of sin has just been destroyed hits really hard. Now Yuna is a heretic, an enemy of the church (and really, the entire government since Yevon controls everything) and she has to figure out how to take down Sin with her friends. She really took a gigantic risk, and was willing to throw away her entire life's belief and work, with no promise of being able to actually stop it.

>>722948725
Yep. Also Sin destroying it in the beginning of the game is meaningless because as an Aeon it can just reform as needed. It's funny to think that in the segment where you have Tidus and Auron fighting through enemies on the freeway out of the city it's actually a ghost and a dream fighting monsters made from scales to escape a city that doesn't actually exist.

I wonder what Auron thought of the city, since he lived there for 10 years to watch over Tidus.

>>722922382
If you died would you want your brother to fuck your fiance?

>>722949539
Good news when you're dead you cease to exist so it doesn't matter what happen

>>722947532
Uhhh Based?

>>722949005
Like Wakka, he saw anyone not strictly principled and practicing restrained behavior as "immoral idiots," so, ten years in fantasy Las Vegas was very draining... even after he discovered his religion was facetious.

>>722949770
>3500 days
Did the translator mix up hours and days?

>>722950906
>FFXI
No, he got it right.

>>722950982
got it tight

>>722949539
If I got death cucked I'd prefer a friend or family member fuck my fiance, rather than some other asshole.

>>722949732
Very deep. Now answer the question.

>>722945418
>weighted_dips.jpg

>>722932374
the calms got shorter and shorter with each cycle, safe to assume at some point they would eventually just stop

>>722955487
I think that was inevitable due to the way it works. Your final aeon has to be stronger than the last one to defeat the current Sin, which in turn makes the next Sin even stronger. We're barely even able to defeat it in FFX and that's with Jecht fucking cooperating with the plan and being hesitant to fight back against Tidus even when fully transformed.

>>722931339
are (You) going to sacrifice yourself?

>>722922382
>Traveling with him I though, maybe you were still alive somewhere yah?
>But then again. here you are on the Farplane. Guess your place is here.

>>722941968
Isn't the oldest known example the concept of the "lotus eaters" in ancient Greek mythology, a group of people who spent almost all of their time in a dreamlike state fueled by growing and eating a certain kind of lotus's petal? Essentially they lived in a utopia in their mind and had no desire to come back to the real world.