Thread 722914608

>>722914608 (OP)
someone has never interacted with another human being in a meaningful way would think 2 sounds epic and intimidating so it checks out that weebs think its good

>>722914608 (OP)
3 > 1 > 2 > 4

"Punch your lights out" doesn't refer to lightbulbs in any way. It refers to consciousness, ie, being knocked out.

>>722914608 (OP)
None of the three translations are good

>>722914608 (OP)
>superior translation
this is an oxymoron
its time for you to start learning japanese my friend

Yeah too bad that's not what localization actually does nowadays.

>>722914608 (OP)
If someone breaks all the lights in your house, would you be happy?

>>722914608 (OP)
2 is funny and therefore better.

>>722914608 (OP)
Why is it so hard for people to just be honest and say we would like translations that are as close to the original as possible? Idioms are a stretch to translate but that doesn't mean basic conversations need to be 'massaged' in any way.

>>722914957
But they didn't break all the lights in my house.

>>722914608 (OP)
I do not understand how people can play a game in Japanese or watch anime in Japanese for years and years and not learn the language. I lived in Japan and learned how to speak it. Its not that hard. Now idgaf about localization. Don't tell me you wasted all those years anon...

>>722915090
congratulations, you beat the enemy and saved your light bulbs

>>722915107
>le I lived in japan!
sure lol

>>722914953
the cashier's (except some foreigners) don't just say arigato though because they are supposed to use keigo

>>722915107
This, but I'm not enough of a retarded faggot to live in a foreign country.

>>722915090
I just did, surprise

>>722914608 (OP)
............it can't be helped.........................

>>722915107
>consooming media adjacent to a language is the same as living in its home country 24/7
come on anon-kun

>>722914608 (OP)
The problem is that #4 is written like shit. Localization is important and direct translations suck but that makes it sound like inserting memes or wacky dialogue where there was none is cool. It isn't.
Translating it as "I'm gonna kick your ass!" if they're some kinda curmudgeonly old man is better than trying to make the like a weird pun.

>>722915307
not the same guy, but while speaking requires being there to get any good, you are better off reading a shitton of books if you just want to understand

>>722914608 (OP)
What the fuck is this? A translator's job is to understand the meaning and intent and pick an appropriate analogue. The meaning is "I'm going to beat you unconscious", the intent is a crude threat of physical violence with no levity - surely there is a perfectly suitable analogue for conveying these two things in any language. 4 is retarded self-indulgent embellishment with no respect for the tone of the original.

>>722914880
Good job missing the point

>>722914608 (OP)
Literally what is wrong with just leaving as it is on #1? "I'm gonna punch your lights out." is already conveying that he's going to punch you unconscious.

>>722915042
because "as close to the original as possible" is chimeric. if someone says どうぞ よろしく お願いします the "closest" translation you can get is gibberish like:
"please go ahead pleasantly politely ask." (and even then, every single word here is a vague approximation of the japanese meaning.)
to make what was said remotely coherent in english you have to insert information that isn't in the original text. "please be kind to me" is massaging it ("me" appears nowhere in the japanese text), "nice to meet you" is basically throwing out the japanese entirely and going "look, in an english conversation you'd say this"

>>722914608 (OP)
>your lights
>light bulbs in your home
naah
doesn't work that way

>>722914608 (OP)
Doesn't this just mean you should keep it at 1 or at worst go to 3? 2 is a it confusing but 4 is shit.

Translate is directly and place a translators note for context if needed.

>>722914880
Are you illiterate
The point was that an expression in one language doesn't directly translate into a different language, but it showed both of them as English

>>722915107
For the longest time I got filtered by the 'wa'/'ga' usage, it seems like everyone has a different explanation for that

>>722915825
>>722915992
1 is supposed to be in moonrunes, they have it in english for this example so you can read the "original" dialogue

>>722915172
Why is that so unbelievable? Is it because you're poor?

>>722916340
So if its like that in the OG Japanese. wouldn't that mean it would be number 3 aka the clarification? If not it seems weird that the clarification is not clearer than the OG language that is translated from Moon runes.

>She's a thieving cat!

In Japanese, the phrase actually means that she is an adulteress, not a literal cat that steals.

There's many ways to translate this.

>She's an adulteress!
Loses much of the character of the way the person is speaking. A peasant girl in 1870's Japan who constantly uses idioms will sound quite different if you strip her of those idioms.

>She's a homewrecker!
Trades one idiom for another, and while this often works, you're still stripping information from the translation, particularly cultural information.

>She's a thieving cat!*
>*Translator note: a woman who steals a man from another woman
Sometimes clunky, but people actually learn something.

just stop at clarification

>>722916535
the example they used kinda sucks. but the idea is that while 3 is correct in the basic meaning it doesn't have the same tone / style as the original language so 4 attempts to find an equivalent or similar expression or phrase. I think a better example would be something like

1. Original
可愛い子には旅をさせよ
2. Literal translation
Make your cute child travel
3. Clarification
Discipline your children so they learn obedience / independence
4. Localization / Adaptation
Spare the rod, spoil the child

For a good translation, there's different situations where you may want to stop at 3 rather than trying to force 4, which might be completely replacing the original. This is often the case with jokes since humor can be very different across cultures and language.

>>722915042
define close to the original
>what do you do about words like senpai and kouhai (no one says senior and junior, or upperclassman). do you just demand that the audience accept them?
>what about honorifics and yobisute (people dropping honorifics, a violation of etiquette)
>what about kanji jokes? do you just cut out the kanji background?
>what about dishes that aren't immediately apparent to foreigners, like chahan or jaganabe?
>etc. etc.
>>722916115
I'd explain but there are tons of guides out already and the complete list of use cases is quite long to type out
>昔々、姫がいました。姫は美しかったです (something unkonwn is introduced vs new info about something already known)
>XにはYがある (X has Y; within X, there's Y, etc. pretty common combination)
>肉は好きだが野菜はあまり好きじゃない (contrast)
>Xは買い物、Yは料理、私はソファに座り込むことで、さあ、始めよう (X will take care of A, Y will take care of B, I'll do C, etc.)
容疑者が逃げようとしている! (can't use は here or you get the usage in the previous sentence)
>母さんが編んだセーターだ (relative clasuses. が is used 99.9% of the time here)
>これはペンです (simple, plain statement) vs これがペンです (THIS is (what) a pen (is))

>>722917174
>Sometimes clunky, but people actually learn something.
Translators' notes are the best option, how many people know that keikaku means plan or that Schneizel is a shitter that makes illegal moves because of them?
The doroboneko must also be adapted into the Western lexicon.

>>722914608 (OP)
Shouldn't 3 be the original and 1 the translation? 1 doesn't make any sense to me as the base.

>>722914608 (OP)
>every one of them calls him O.G. San
eat your hamburgers apollo

The entire trannyslation argument boils down to leftists pretending they don't understand the conversation. No one is asking for literal translations. We get upset when you insert shit like mansplaining into your trannyslations and pretend you don't understand when we call it out.

>>722914608 (OP)
>I can translate it as 1, which is the most common sense thing to do, but I am a disingenuous idiot and pretend 4 is the best one
Why are you guys so goddamn stuped?

>>722917475
>Discipline your children so they learn obedience / independence
but that's not what it says.
the saying is about letting them venture out and experience the harsh realities of the world without pampering them.

>>722917636
No, 1 is "how it's written", 2 is how it would literally translate word for word 3 is what it actually means, 3 wouldn't make any sense as the original phrase in this example.

>>722916095
The direct translation is "I'm going to punch you your soul's light out of you", 2 just misunderstood the text.

>>722917690
that's just western culture now chud. everyone I know talks like this.

The fact you retards keep getting filtered by this slightly clumsy example proves that you really need all the help the adaptation process can offer.

>>722914608 (OP)
>Original (in foreign language) is somehow not the raw translation but 2 is
Localizers would also insist 4 is the best despite it being pure middle school energy.

I'm baffled that 1 is already a completely fine translation. If 2 is the raw translation, 3 is just the essence of the clarification, and 4 is someone messing and smearing it, then at what point during the process was 1? Why isn't 1 just used?

>>722917807
But 1 is literally an english saying already, and I don't think that exact saying exists in Japanese.

>>722915107
Japanese is not a language your learn by osmosis. It takes active effort and most people can't be assed after becoming adults.

>>722917174
I miss translator's notes, they've pretty much died entirely.

>>722917690
>Every argument with a leftist can be reduced down to them pretending to not know things, making discourse impossible

If the writing sucks, it sucks. Your job is translator, not writer

>>722917491
lookie here you stupid soi sauce-guzzling nerd. I'm not fond of my children quoting gay chinese cartoons like wimpy faggots. I don't care for your japshit. our nation's children must be molded into fine young men. the least they need is to be taught to talk like cringe yellow virgin bugmen losers.

>>722914608 (OP)
2 isn't a translation at all. Are they implying translators don't know if something is an expression or not?

>>722917690
>The entire trannyslation argument boils down to leftists pretending they don't understand the conversation.
typical leftist talking point
the only way to is to record everything they say and show the world their true colors when they let their nefarious true intentions slip

>>722918010
Blame the /a/-adjacent fansubs that decided TL notes are "wapanese shit".

>>722918106
bugs bunny: you
smiling man: me

>>722917690
>No one is asking for literal translations
They are, in this very thread.

>>722917485
Everything you said is correct, but for the underlying grammar it's that は (wa) is the topic particle and が (ga) is the subject particle.

Another thing regarding simple statement is that generally when you use は the important/emphasized part is after the particle vs が where the emphasis is on the word before the particle. For example

私は医者です (Watashi ha isha desu)
私が医者です (Watashi ga isha desu)

Both can be translated as "I am a doctor" but there's some difference on what the most important information in each sentence is. When answering a question you can usually just use the same particle that was asked.

誰が医者ですか (Dare ga isha desuka?)
Who is a doctor?
私が医者です
I am a doctor

vs

仕事はなんですか (Shigoto ha nandesuka?)
What is your job?
私は医者です
I am a doctor

>>722914608 (OP)
>Idioms exist
>So that means us TRANSlators should be able to make the villain a Drumpf insert, make multiple characters trans/gay, sprinkle memes that were already old 4 years ago, and censor important plot points that are taboo for me specifically!

The process itself is actually correct here. The end result is stylistically incorrect, though, as I've experienced the "old man threatening you with violence" thing myself in a queue and there's no way he'd say anything like the end result.
If you want something like an actual translation case that is close to OP's situation, here's an excerpt from Gentlemen of Fortune, a Soviet crime comedy film.
> Toчнo! Кaнaй! И пycть кaнaeт oтcюдa, a тo я eмy poгa пooтшибaю, пacть пopвy, мopгaлы выкoлю!
The raw, literal translation that would be practiced by early Soviet translators and be defeated entirely by the 1950s would go like this:
> Accurate! Out! And just let out of here, or else I will knock off his horns, jaw tear, eyes pluck!
It's actually pretty hard to translate this in a raw way, but you can try MTL to get the idea.
The context here is that an infiltrator has to LARP as a hardened criminal and tells someone trying to "press" him to get out or he'll fuck him up, but isn't exactly good at it so he has to remember some of that slang as the other guy is naturally talking like that.
The "communication goal" here, the condensed message you cannot alter or change in any way or else you'd be a bad translator, would be something like
> (suddenly remembering the word) That's right! [Get out of here!] He should get out of here, or else I'll [violently bring you down to earth], [break your face], [pluck your eyes out].
You inevitably encounter losses. There isn't a single word for getting out of here in a derogatory way, so you have to describe it. Some other equivalents are also in order. The end result is something like:
> ...Right, get outta here! He should get outta here, or else I'll break his horns off, tear his gash and pluck his winkers out!
That's how you usually do it. There's a threat of violence and a bit of uncertainty, and you're preserving that as well as you can. One word is lost, but an equivalent is still found.
> Why are you telling us this?
It's fun.

>>722917857
>another random tweet with 0 engagement

>>722915107
If you watched more than 100 anime and don't understand japanese, you've brain damage
Moon runes is another thing, but understanding the words is easy

>>722918248
They aren't, you should kill yourself promptly. I meant that literally.

It's fascinating how 99% of translators are failed wannabe writers

>>722918248
You're literally doing the thing where you intentionally refuse to understand the minutia of the conversation. When people say "literal" they mean as close as possible while still being understandable. Not a single soul

Look at >>722914608 (OP) and tells me 4 comes anywhere near as close to 1 in terms of tone and message. 4 genuinely comes off likes something I'd hear an edgy 11-year-old say at school. 1 is at least something I've heard in shit like the Sopranos so it carries some weight to it. This is the divide that localizers keep creating with their own hands and then pretending they don't understand what's going on, only a chudcel could hate the "mastercraft" that is 4.

>>722918442
just like western voice actors are 99.9% failed actors forming a clique in LA

>>722917174
Last one is the best one.

>>722917923
>I'm baffled that 1 is already a completely fine translation
Because it's a stupid example which is already in English. Do this:

>>722918491
*not a single soul means a complete illegible string of English because it's super accurate.

>>722917174
call her a thieving minx I think that gets it across best

1 is what the actual translation is
2 is what people who say phrases can't be translated will tell you it translates to
3 is what people who think Japanese is dry and devoid of humor will tell you it translates to
4 is what trannylators will tell you it translates to

>>722917174
>>*Translator note: a woman who steals a man from another woman
>Sometimes clunky, but people actually learn something.
NOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T DO THAT REEEEEEEEEEE. THINK OF THE READERS. THERE'S A 45 SYLLABLE AND 2-LINE LIMIT PER SUBTITLE RRRRRRRREEEEEE

>>722918491
When people say literal they actually mean something else
Then don't say literal.

>>722914608 (OP)
>>722915726
>>722916095
#2 is not the literaly translation however.
"In your home" is injected meaning. You need to elaborate OR AT LEAST STATE THE METAPHORE
>it's a figure of speech, to directly reference the lights in your body as a metaphore for its concious functionality would require significantly more context for the reader
1. The step is "raw translating", the sense is secondary to the depiction of the words on the page with basic context. If you cannot do that correctly than your whole localization, the derrivative output of the material, will be wrong.
2. YES, which is why I prefer translator notes explaining the context and retaining the original raw nature of the phrase. I am not stupid, and I actually enjoy seeing how other cultures create their similes and idioms. When you are given the ability to see how the idioms are created it often makes perfect sense. And even if it doesn't then the context of the TR note is enough for me to understand the flow of conversation.

>>722918719
meant 45 character limit
also, it varies from 32-45. sometimes the max is 42

>>722918442
Yeah. There's this horrible misbelief that a translation must make the original work palatable for their audience, when that's completely wrong and can distort or completely erase the original work. A translation shouldn't even consider making the original work palatable for the new audience, it should consider making the original work understandable for the new audience. If what there is to understand isn't to your taste, that doesn't make it a bad translation. If what you really want is to have something but for it be changed to your liking, then it's confusing why you would want it at all and not look for something else. Any arguments to the contrary are where idealogy and agendas must necessarily come in.

>>722918791
We're way past the fucking point anymore where literal means literal. The fact that you don't know this means you're either a complete shut-in who hasn't spoken to another human in 17+ years, or you're not a native English speaker.

>>722918150
They surley must, they use them all the time!
>rub a dub dub, thanks for the grub

>>722918846
>Yeah. There's this horrible misbelief that a translation must make the original work palatable for their audience
it's widespread among translators. this shitty belief that "the translation must feel as though it were written in the target language." it's sickening. then they have the gall to ask for "tolerance and acceptance" while completely excising and neutering foreign cultures

>>722918928
You're just muddling the conversation using words that have a clear and precise meaning to mean something else. It's not anyone else's fault.

>companies decide to release localizations instead of translations
>this is the translator's fault

>>722918846
>Yeah. There's this horrible misbelief that a translation must make the original work palatable for their audience
it's widespread among translators. this shitty belief that "the translation must feel as though the work had been written in the target language." it's sickening. then they have the gall to ask for "tolerance and acceptance" while completely excising and neutering foreign cultures

I work as an actual translator and the responses in this thread are making me fucking cringe so hard. Japanese can't be translated literally, that's why we need to add our own interpretation. Anyway, this is how I would translate 1 into 4 myself:
Hey, fuck-o! When a black woman speaks, you listen! Holy fuckmuffin, you're really cruisin' for a bruisin' with all that mansplaining! Sisters, how about I teach y'all lesson numero uno: see a nazi, apply fist to face! Watch and learn, fucksticks!

>>722919018
It's called cultural imperialism. The only way to stop it is enslaving all women and metrosexuals.

Making shit up > Translation > Localization

>>722919059
Thank you for confirming what I suspected without even using a direct answer.

Normal, everyday people have not used literal to convey hard reality for well over a decade now. Again, only an ESL or a NEET shut-in wouldn't know this.

>>722918928
nta but I actively resist "literal" being used as a word for emphasis. If you don't use this word correctly in my presence I will belittle you.

>>722914608 (OP)
This example is stupid because it uses an English idiom and translates it away, they should've used a foreign one and explain it. As it stands, the localization they offer in 4 clearly has a different connotation, but they seem fine with it.

>>722919126
The only instance where this is true was old super nintendo jrpgs.

>>722918106
Yeah, it's so much better when they go around quoting skibbidi toilet instead.

>>722914608 (OP)
So why couldn't #4 be "I'm gonna punch your lights out"?

>>722919151
>>722918928
This site is for 18+ users only.

>>722914608 (OP)
2 isn't a direct translation of the punch your lights out saying that's fucking retarded

>>722918214
Im almost completely asexual, i have a few fetishes but ive never jerked off or anything, so please dont just assume I’m a coomer but… has oversexualization ever actually hurt a game in the west? Like, a single time? I understand it sometimes makes journos have a stink and often future games “correct course” but do we actually have any evidence it hurts the game in the west beyond making bloggers mad? Like, weve had games flop for many reasons and i dont think being too sexy has ever been one of them. Sure, germany or australia or whatever might ban it, but thats never what localizers are talking about, theyre always talking about the american market. These days the ESRB is entirely irrelevant, most parents have zero idea what games even their kids are buying and playing, where is the evidence the “12 year old in S&M gear” will in any way hurt the game?

>>722917872
No it's not, it relies on the metaphor of the body as a house and the lights being on being analogous to someone being awake inside the house, hence consciousness. If the lights go out in a house, the people inside are asleep, or there is no one home. That is the metaphor.

>>722915107
Bro just because I can recognize shit like “mada mada” and “ainz karou meseeateru” or however the fuck it’s said doesn’t mean I have interest in the language

>>722919271
Because that's boring and has been done before by white men. The world is changing fr fr and you need to tryna get with the program for sus.

>>722919225
The Ivalice Final Fantasy games do it too and people love it.

>>722918792
Needing a separate note to explain the translation means you already failed at translating.

>>722918604
HELLO? WHY ISN'T ANYONE TRANSLATING THIS? I THOUGHT 4CHAN WAS THE GLOBAL LOCALIZATION AUTHORITY?

>>722919059
>You're just muddling the conversation using words that have a clear and precise meaning to mean something else. It's not anyone else's fault.
Localizer defender suddenly cares about the actual definition of words and using them very directly with no possible deviance.

>>722919151
Implying I have poor social skills when you can't even keep your political bs out of an unrelated conversation. Lmao. Grow up.

>>722919296
I like how it adds "in your home" out of nowhere

>>722918008
Why can't people be sassed to continue gaining knowledge into their adulthood? Learning new skills or languages is amazing. Just take one hour out of your day to learn and in a year you will be really surprised by progress. I spend one hour a day on music, one on languages, one on exercise and the rest on vidya. I don't need to work so maybe thats the reason why

>>722919402
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>722918792
You can't put translator's notes in a game

>>722919460
Yes you can.

>>722919298
>has oversexualization ever actually hurt a game in the west? Like, a single time
Actual porn games and extremely ecchi games like DoA Volleyball I think do take a hit to sales because America is still Puritan and people are uncomfortable buying that, but the issue is they’ve been attempting to redefine “oversexualization” to a level where no, it doesn’t effect sales

>>722919445
>Why can't people be sassed to continue gaining knowledge into their adulthood?
Because it literally becomes impossible to learn by osmosis past your early teens for most people.

>>722918012
>If you're against abortion, you must be against masturbation too
I think it's a strong hypothesis.

>>722919374
Do you wish to understand what they said or not?

>>722915372
It's an illustration in a textbook. It's not the be all, end all of localisation. It's meant to convey the concept, not to tell you that this is the best possible translation.

I fucking swear, if this fact alone wasn't lost on so many autists we wouldn't even be having these threads.

>>722917872
>"I will remove the light from your soul"
Boom, translated

>>722919374
Such a retarded trannyslator brained take.

>>722919576
>>"I will remove the light from your soul"
kino

>>722919413
See >>722919313
It's implied; you don't have literal lights in your body.

>>722919552
>It's meant to convey the concept,
And it does a poor job, because in its own example it clearly shows 4, the intended golden boy answer within the hypothetical, sounds like garbage.

>>722919460
>additional text box
>side text box that appears linked to 1 text box
>optional input popup that gives the player the ability to open a side page explaining the tr note
Have you ever played a game with text boxes before?

>>722919576
somebody get this man a job at sony NOW

>>722919445
because learning a language that does not have grammar similar to your own, has different pronunciation and doesn't even share a written form is difficult
>i-it only takes an hour a day!
the average person doesn't have an hour to spare, let alone on something that more often than not ends in frustration

>>722914608 (OP)
>Not “hungry? How ‘bout a knuckle sandwich?”
O.G San will never be radical

>>722914608 (OP)
wait why can't No. 4 just be "I'm gonna punch your lights out"

>>722915107
My brother lives in Germany and doesn't speak a word of German. If you don't need it... you don't need it, just use dubs.

>>722919576
YOU ARE COURTING DEATH

>>722919631
>the intended golden boy answer
Jesus fucking christ
READ MOTHERFUCKER
I LITERALLY COVERED THIS IN THE POST YOU'RE RESPONDING TO
AND THE IMAGE ITSELF DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS YOU

>>722919445
That's completely the reason why. Work when done without passion, which is the majority of everyone in the world, drains you completely and you just want to sleep afterwards.

It also gets even worse when you include family, regardless or whether it's your own children, parents, siblings, or extended tree, that living becomes cumbersome and you have very little time for yourself at all.

>>722919298
Visa and Mastercard are stopping legal games with sexual themes from being sold online by Steam, Itch, and other storefronts that use them as payment processors.
Reject these companies, they want to tell you what art is and what you should and shouldn't appreciate in your media.

>>722919704
>living in Germany
>doesn't learn one of the easiest languages to learn as an English Speaker
Your brother is retarded anon

>>722919656
Or if games like Mass Effect can have a codex, then translated games can just have a glossary or whatever for specific terms, and words. "Can't put TL notes in games" is such a complete non argument.

>>722917174
keikaku means potato chip

>>722919693
Because it stands in for a foreign expression with no direct equivalent in English
This is an autism test btw

>>722918008
>Japanese is not a language your learn by osmosis.
It absolutely is, all languages are.

>>722918604
HELLO?

>>722919784
Damn, I guess I really do have privilege

>>722918106
what children

>>722919445
Because learning fucking suck. I want to know, i don't want to learn to know. We seriously need direct knowledge upload into brain like in matrix

>>722919776
>I LITERALLY COVERED THIS IN THE POST YOU'RE RESPONDING TO
>AND THE IMAGE ITSELF DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS YOU

>In this example, we see that a raw translation doesn't necessarily convey the intended meaning. Clarifying it restores the intended meaning, and adapting the clarified translation presents the content in a new way while maintaining the original intention. Each stage is useful in its own way, and they all work together to produce a basic localization.

That's the full quote. You're right, it does contradict me, because it insists 4 is actually good and not horrendous dogshit.

>>722918008
>apanese is not a language your learn by osmosis
dumb nigga award goes to this guy

>>722919854
I already know I have autism

>>722919919
I don't mean to berate you Anon. Mostly just help you understand. If you have the ability to do so, keep doing so then. So you don't end up like us.

>>722919889
>>722920049
just because you know three words in japanese because they're repeated non-stop in your subtitled annie mays doesn't mean you know the language

>>722919552
If your example of a good translation is complete trash, why would anyone agree that that approach is the correct way of translating things?

>>722920046
>it insists 4 is actually good
No, it says that it presents the content in a new way while maintaining the original intention.

Why do you care about translation if you can't read anyway?

How are there people ITT that don't understand what the OP example is attempting to convey
Low IQ or autistic

>>722914608 (OP)
Unironically the threat of breaking into someones house and crushing all their lightbulbs with your bare hands is a pretty badass threat. I wouldn't fuck with him

>>722914880
retard alert

>>722920215
It's not an example of "good translation", it's an example of localisation, which is sometimes the correct way of translating things.

>>722919115
Every year that passes, I agree more with Victoria and Florence Nightingale.

>>722920258
>it presents the content in a new way while maintaining the original intention.
I dont want a new presentation, I want the words translated but presentation kept the same.
>why do you care about how real your beef is if you can't cook the burger yourself?

>>722918604
Clarification: "Everyone is so (negative thing depending on the context)"
Adaptation: "What's with everyone, anyways?"

>>722916047
all according to keikaku

>>722920318
GOOD MORNING SAR
DO THE NEEDFUL AND BUY OUR LOCALIZED JAPANESE PRODUCTS FOR GAMING PLEASURE

>>722918804
>sometimes the max is 42
Cowards

>>722920258
>No, it says that it presents the content in a new way while maintaining the original intention.
It does not maintain the original intention, at all. I know you're a retarded autist who doesn't understand language beyond the quite literal, but the intended tone of 1 is completely lost through 4. Do you need other examples?

>Original: I'll fucking kill you
>Localized: I'll heckin' unalive you.

That's what 4 in the OP's image comes off like. What little aspect of a threat was in the original line has been replaced by a comedic presence of child-like tone. Would you take some fuck seriously when he threatened you with 4? No, you wouldn't, and you likely know this, you're just being a fucking cock pretending not to understand.

Not that anyone cares because nobody on this board plays videogames but I thought Visions of Mana did a good localization job. It uses flowery language that reads as if it was actually written by natural english speakers without altering the source too much.

On the other hand, stuff like FF7R and FF7R2 go full retard with their localization often completely changing or leaving out the meanings of the Japanese-spoken sentences.

>>722914608 (OP)
Raw is better

>"I'm gonna punch your lights out!"
>"We must prepare to overthrow the patriarchy, comrade!"
based localizers

>>722914608 (OP)
>I'm going to punch you until you become retarded
Why the need to invent a brand new phrase instead of something resembling the original meaning?

>>722915042
Because people like
>>722915853
>>722917485
will pull the "define woke" bullshit and pretend like you're asking for a directly literal translation instead of a translation that correctly substitutes idioms without adding additional meanings unintended by the original text.

>>722919368
You're telling me the infamous screencap here is bullshit?

>>722914608 (OP)
I'm going to hit you like social injustice hits folks of color!

>>722918317
>There isn't a single word for getting out of here in a derogatory way
Scram is probably the word I would use in that case then. Not derogatory per se but definitely rude or confrontational.
>>722920160
How the fuck do you think Japanese people learn to speak Japanese? Osmosis. That's how humans learn to speak retard.

>>722920337
>it's not an example of good translation
Nope, the text outright the fourth stage maintains the original intention but just in a new way, except we can see in the example it got completely bastardized.

>>722920780
This? None of this text is from any version of the game, including literal JP translation. It's an edit.

>>722920894
Yeah, "scram" works, actually. I'll keep it in mind, thanks.

>>722914608 (OP)
"I'm going to punch/hit you" will suffice, localizing troon.

>>722920160
Just because you watch anime at 1.5 times speed with subway surfers on the side and also chatting on discord doesn't mean everyone does.

>>722920421
I'm sorry, you're literally too autistic to understand what the image is attempting to convey.
>>722920520
>It does not maintain the original intention, at all.
That's debatable but regardless THAT'S NOT THE POINT HERE. It's one page in a textbook, illustrating a concept that is expanded upon elsewhere. You're supposed to glance at it and go "ah yeah I get the concept"; not "I SEE! I AM SUPPOSED TO WRITE 'I BROUGHT SOME PUNCH' INSTEAD OF 'I'LL PUNCH YOUR LIGHTS OUT'!!!"
>I know you're a retarded autist who doesn't understand language beyond the quite literal
Holy shit the fucking irony
I literally studied translation science at a university level btw
>That's what 4 in the OP's image comes off like.
You're bringing in your own baggage regarding localisation. This is not what the image actually says.
>No, you wouldn't, and you likely know this, you're just being a fucking cock pretending not to understand.
Jesus, can you go one fucking second without assuming bad faith on the part of everyone? The textbook is tricking you, I'm tricking you, everyone is lying to you and doing things badly on purpose! No, you're just an idiot who compensates the many gaps in his understanding of the world with poorly reasoned assumptions.

>>722920894
Scat or begone may also work

>>722920908
Anon, please. Once again, it's just an illustrative example - and its first conceit is asking you to imagine that "punch your lights out" is a foreign expression that has no English equivalent. The fourth step is simply saying "this is how you might do it". You're spending more thought on this than the textbook authors, because you're hyperfocusing on this one illustration instead of reading the full context, which you don't have.

>仕方ない
do it faggot. translate the text

>>722920770
because what you are asking for is internally incoherent. you cannot know what meanings were intended and not intended by the original text, the original author's intentions were written in Japanese, using the specific meanings and connotations of all Japanese words. even if you could, it is impossible to substitute things without changing their meaning. "どうぞよろしくお願いします" cannot be rendered into English without connotations that were absent in Japanese. It can be understood correctly only in Japanese.

you don't want what you say you want, so you say something nonsensical that sounds better than what you actually want (which is for games to stop having cringe english dialogue. not being a Japanese speaker, you would neither know nor care how good the translation was if it wasn't cringe.)

>>722921052
>That's debatable but
Stopped reading right there. Your localization has betrayed the original works. You ought to be ashamed for editing the narrative and transforming the artist's work.

>>722915214
holy shit shut the fuck up faggot

>>722920980
The "It's escapism" one.

>>722921218
ching-chong not

>>722921290
>Your localization has betrayed the original works.
No.
I don't see you providing a better alternative btw

>>722921193
>You're spending more thought on this than the textbook authors
Or the localizers. And that's all a damn shame.

>>722914608 (OP)
>O.G. San
what a cool name

>>722921407
>if you don't do X than you can't critisize anyone who does X!

>>722919576
this is antisemitic
kino

>>722914827
thread should have ended here tbhfamsmh

>>722921052
You're talking to a mix of bots and professional contrarians
None of these people know how the world works and just scream and shout and post Twitter keycaps in the hopes of framing the opposite side as [undesirable of the week]
You're supposed to enter these threads and laugh at ESL retards who work at McDonald’s for providing free entertainment
Engaging literal bots has no upsides, just enjoy the circlejerk

>>722914880
thanks for the TL notes fan translator san

>>722921218
c'est la vie, nigga

>>722915107
gaijin pigs go back home

>>722921562
Yeah, if you think this is a poor example, give us a better one. Oh, you didn't even understand that that's what I was asking? No, that's because you're an autistic retard with a chip on his shoulder about localisation and so you're inherently disinclined to show any good faith in this discussion.

What the image says:
>Here are three degrees of translation, illustrated with some examples, and they all have their function
What you people take it to mean:
>The final step is the best and only way to translate and the example given is precisely the one way to translate this (because we hate weeaboos)

>>722921193
When you add an example to represent a concept that you state is useful, making the example look extremely bad and stupid makes it harder to take you seriously. It just makes people laugh at the example, as they're doing in this thread. You can't put something that bad and expect people to have zero reactions to it

>>722914608 (OP)
it actually is

>>722919105
>this is how I would translate 1 into 4 myself:
>Hey, fuck-o! When a black woman speaks, you listen! Holy fuckmuffin, you're really cruisin' for a bruisin' with all that mansplaining! Sisters, how about I teach y'all lesson numero uno: see a nazi, apply fist to face! Watch and learn, fucksticks!
based and localizerpilled. although next time remember to add references to the gamergate and george floyd and owning the gamers and chuds

>>722922038
totally well adjusted individual who interacts with humans often

>>722917857
Woah, he's literally me

>>722921948
Actually when you're in a classroom setting and someone is there to explain the concept this is illustrating it's perfectly functional. You're inherently unfair in your approach.

>>722921323
That game had a different setting and thus unpozzed localization

>>722914608 (OP)
The original line is an idiom that have the direct implication that the speaker is going to render you unconscious through punches. None of the the other rendition express that in anyway

>>722914608 (OP)
Terrible example because it uses an English idiom that the reader understands. Using a real world example is not hard to understand.

I just looked up Japanese idioms and here's a perfect one: "Asa meshi mae" which literally means "before breakfast." It means something is very simple or easy. Translating it to English, you could use the idiom "piece of cake."

>>722921218
>can't do anything about it
>it is what it is
>them's the breaks
>that's the way life goes
WHICH ONE IS IT TO GET THE 4CHAN LOCALIZATION POLICE OFF MY ASS FUCKKKKKKKKK

>>722916095
It's a shit example since both ends of the translation are real english phrases that the reader understands. It should have started with a completely literal translation of a foreign phrase the reader doesn't understand.

>>722919576
menacing...

>>722914608 (OP)
#1 would be correct for someone speaking straight Japanese in Tokyo-ben. But we must assume O.G.San is speaking at least Kansai-ben so his accent will be much rougher, relaxed and at the same time more poetic in the cockney rhyming slang sort of way. So #2 makes perfect sense! Kansai-Ben (osaka dialect), is just like that, sometimes nonsensical, sometimes funny and rough around the edges. Asuka from Tekken speaks Kansai-Ben for example.

There's one kind of retard who insists #2 is good and it's the people who think #4 is good and make threads in bad faith about people who just want #1.

>>722914608 (OP)
Local users will look you dead in the eye and say
>yep, I wrongly believe my inferior fanfiction should supersede that actual story made by my betters

Number 2 is better because you can just learn what the phrase means from context. "I'm going to punch your lights out" also doesn't make sense in English and you probably never needed anyone explain the meaning. You just see people saying it in the context of a fight and can figure it out yourself.

>>722921218
So it goes.

>>722922214
It asks you to imagine that it is a foreign idiom. This thread is better than apple example in rooting out absolute npcs.

>>722920770
>will pull the "define woke" bullshit
you are either being facetious or retarded
trannylators abusing plausible deniability does not change the fact that some decisions need to be taken.
shikata ga nai ne

>>722922157
I'm sure if your standards for classrooms are low enough it's perfectly suitable

>>722914608 (OP)
>the only one that doesn't sound like shit is #1
what was the point of this example???

>>722922284
it can't be helped

>>722922421
"Literal" translation certainly has its uses - particularly for scholarly or philological editions, where footnotes are common and expected.

>>722922515
To show all the different ways you can destroy a foreign text

>>722922515
What, you mean the untranslated idiom? Great, you've hit upon the biggest issue in translation: it cannot be done. Once we accept this, we can actually start translating.

>>722921052
>That's debatable but regardless THAT'S NOT THE POINT HERE.
It's quite literally THE FUCKING POINT of localization, maintaining the intent both through meaning and in tone. If you fail in either aspect, you have done a poor job localizing. If an original foreign piece is meant to induce sadness, but the localization instead turns it into a comedy, whether intentional or not, it has failed at localizing.

>I literally studied translation science at a university level btw
Thanks for confirming you own glorified toilet paper from some cucked university, that really sways me with the appeal to authority.

>>722922471
There's no reason to imagine it's a foreign idiom. Just use a real example. The "raw translation" they give is extremely exaggerated. That's like for my example, "Asa meshi mae" ("before breakfast"), a similar raw translation would be "it is now breakfast time so we will sit and eat a meal at the table." It's funny and it's a good joke. Just a really terrible way to teach translation. Or whatever this book is trying to do.

>>722915214
"Arigatou de gozaimashita"
It just means "Greatly appreciated" so a simple "Thank you kind sir/lady." is acceptable depending on context.

>>722922214
Funny, the english idiom: "I eat X for breakfast", is also an expression of considering a task easy.

>>722922394
Just come up with a similar way to something then perhaps then "Come 'ere and I'll knock yer lights out!" Would be better for someone like O.G San if he's a rough and tumble guy.

>>722922661
pozcalizers hate extended metaphors. they're their kryptonite. the urge they feel to modify and destroy them is simply too great

>>722922661
Anon, please, I'm begging you. It's just an example. An illustration. It's not saying this is the best way to translate something. It's just supposed to quickly illustrate the concept of localising. Show a little bit of good faith, please.
In fact, if I were using this textbook as an instructor, I might actually ask students to come up with a better translation, as an exercise, should they get autistically stuck on it. Because yes, I will admit it can probably be done better.
>Thanks for confirming you own glorified toilet paper from some cucked university
I love how rightoids always think themselves the highest authority on any topic and at the same time disdain actual expertise.

>>722914608 (OP)
>original (in foreign language)
>it's in English

>>722922421
You never been blacked out (knocked out, no vision, no light entering your retinas) Most people have been knocked at least once in their lifetime if they are at least semi active. "Seeing Stars" is also an English saying most people understand to describe the after-effect of being rocked hard enough to swirl like a drunkard and not quite finding your footing because there's a visible amount of light spots in your vision forming and break apart. Looks like galaxies inside your head are fucking up live.

>>722919672
>the average person doesn't have an hour to spare
Biggest BS in this thread.

>>722922038
painfully out of touch, just ridiculously behind the curve on what left-wing people are up to these days. it's embarrassing. believe whatever you want, but you could at least know what your enemies actually care about. george floyd? mansplaining? what is this, 2020? nobody talks like this anymore. even the nazi punching bit is just a lucky guess (they still say that, but its relevance peaked in 2017 when someone lamped Richard Spencer.)
here's a free tip: it's all about palestine nowadays.

>>722921052
>You're supposed to glance at it and go "ah yeah I get the concept"; not "I SEE! I AM SUPPOSED TO WRITE 'I BROUGHT SOME PUNCH' INSTEAD OF 'I'LL PUNCH YOUR LIGHTS OUT'!!!"
So your entire argument is the audience is supposed to nod and agree with everything that's written by the localizer instead of critically thinking about the output? You know, be secondary participants in the quality of the work and scrutinize the comparison between original and adaptation? Something that's always been the utopian ideal of any culture that prides itself on art. To have even the youngest among the crowd analyse how well the person did in conveying the author's writing through their own? Form where I've been standing and looking from the outside in, your entire argument can be boiled down to "you shouldn't criticize the doctor unless you are also a doctor." Because the localizer did anything, you're supposed to just go "yeah I get it" and then not have the valid freedom to say "but..."?

>>722914608 (OP)
2 is bad because it's just not the intended meaning, it's objectively incorrect
4 is also bad because it's the trannylator trying to be quirky and giving the character a different personality

>>722923302
you can't appreciate true genius

>>722923201
>So your entire argument is the audience is supposed to nod and agree with everything that's written by the localizer instead of critically thinking about the output?
No, you daft cunt. My argument is not even about the quality of the translation. It's just that you shouldn't get autistically hung up on a throwaway line in a fucking textbook as if it's the final authority on localisation.
It's
An
Example

yes, looks better to me than number 4.

>>722914608 (OP)
gay fagggot op uses a shitty trany manual on trannylation

>>722923201
>>722923402
In fact your whole misunderstanding here is thinking it's supposed to illustrate "THE BEST WAY TO TRANSLATE" instead of "a possible way to translate"

>>722922825
for me it's maido ari

>>722923402
To defend the existence of the poor example in a setting intended to be educational isn't a good idea when the majority of teachers would in fact use this example as "how you should do it." You have experienced being around the average teacher, right? Most of them do not extend beyond the books or give meaningful insight. 95% of my university course in programming was spent researching online, because the teacher was reading out of date material from 2006.

>>722923201
>>722923402
>>722923510
And, to add to that, every step of the process is deliberately exaggerated to make the differences more clear. Of course, it's not even actually a translation because the source idiom is also English. Acting like you can "translate this better" is inherently conceited.

Weebs also think anime's voice work is good acting so...

>>722921218
This, too, is something we must endure. Be strong, my friend.

>>722923689
I would say it's not a poor example and you're just too autistic to understand the actual point of it.

>>722922421
It is expressively imagery. When you break all the lights in a house, the house looks empty at night, like no one is home.
So when your lights is punched out, it means you are unconscious, since your body is pretty much inert and seems like your brain/mind isn't in control of body, as if your brain is no longer in your head (no longer at home). [also related to people calling you out? "Hello, is nobody at home?" when you aren't paying attention to anybody]

Why the fuck would I play any Eastern game?
>Reading the text
>Not just skipping it
ISHYGDDT

>>722914608 (OP)
the classic localizer motte and bailey tactic. people complain about bad translations, translators retreat to "heres why we need to change the text a bit so it makes sense" and when you're not looking they resume changing characterizations altogether.

>>722923042
>Anon, please, I'm begging you. It's just an example. An illustration. It's not saying this is the best way to translate something. It's just supposed to quickly illustrate the concept of localising.
And it's a shit example. It's a shit illustration. Stop defending its existence just because you think it's okay to handwave away poor educational material. Your passive contentless to absorb mediocrity because in a hypothetical you'd be the "cool teacher" and point out its flawed, which you've admitted, isn't an argument.

>I love how rightoids always think themselves the highest authority on any topic and at the same time disdain actual expertise.
I love how you think you can induce my political leanings at all simply because I used 4chan terminology on 4chan. Universities have been a known joke for decades, you went there, got a piece of paper worth nothing, and now think you get to lord over people because we weren't also stupid enough to waste our time with something that can quite literally be learned through advanced English classes with a bit of application. You're the same tier of fool who took "game development" classes instead of literally anything useful.

>>722923874
Getting your lights knocked out is also the experience of the victim no longer seeing anything (black out) because of being unconscious.

Here's several alternatives for 4
>I'm gonna knock you out
>I'm gonna knock your head out
>I'm going to beat you
>I'm gonna beat you unconscious
>I'm gonna cave your head in
>I'm gonna kick your ass
>I'm gonna beat your ass
>I'm gonna kick your head in
Then just pick what you believe best matches the severity and tone of the original. None of that gay shit in example 4 needs to be there. I'm making a massive assumption of ogsan being some guy threatening his grandson or something, either for real or as a non-serious threat meant to show disapproval, so in other cases the above might have to be changed for other sentences

>>722923938
Anon, this is not a fallacy because it's not even an argument. It's not intended for you. It's not part of your imaginary debate.

>>722923896
Play Yakuza originals and you'll understand.

>>722914608 (OP)
>All these lines and not a single mention 'knock out'

>>722923817
>I would say it's not a poor example

>>722923042
>In fact, if I were using this textbook as an instructor, I might actually ask students to come up with a better translation, as an exercise, should they get autistically stuck on it. Because yes, I will admit it can probably be done better.

This is an admission that you yourself think it's a poor example. You can't argue you'd come up with something better to someone else, and then tell me in the same room it's not. Your flip flopping isn't unseen.

>>722923735
And you can barely type an English sentence.

>>722924030
Sorry, Japanese are polite even when they are beating you up.
>PLEASE APOLOGIZE YOU FUCK.

>>722923975
>point out its flawed
As a translation, not as an example.
It is undoubtedly a localisation.
>I love how you think you can induce my political leanings at all simply because I used 4chan terminology on 4chan
No, that wasn't it, although of course you can't throw a stone in this place without hitting some rightoid in the head. But it was actually what I just explained: your disdain for actual expertise.

>>722924030
None of those are really good examples for #4 because they're hardly even metaphorical and don't read too much different from #3. You're meant to illustrate the difference.

>>722914608 (OP)
>troonlaters will look you dead in the eye and insist #2 is a literal translation
I despise what people call AI these days, but what I hate more are the inept human beings that caused people to flock to it.

>>722924050
*looks away*

>>722914608 (OP)
what the FUCK is O.G Sans problem?

>>722924096
I will never consume ANY Eastern media

>>722922421
No it isn't, in Spanish a phrase for "I fucked up" is
>I shit in the milk
Imagine an emotional moment where you're meant to feel the weight of the characters actions only for them to reveal they shat in milk.
It ruins the scene while
>I fucked up
is something you can relate to as an English speaker, likewise a Spanish speaker watching the same scene only to hear
>I had sex.
Is baffling.

>>722924145
No it's not. See >>722924193

>>722924193
I respect actual expertise from people who can put their money where their mouth is. Unless you can cite me your works, you're a complete nobody in a field filled with nobodies, a field that has an infamous track record for both its poor quality and its spiteful creators defending their work to the high hills.

>>722914608 (OP)
Btw the 1 the superior. My native language is not English and it is making full sense in every way. All others mental illness or substitutes for people who don't know the target language yet.

>あれ
>Whatchamacallit

>>722918106
Me with the red face. This post is hilarious.

how come weebs don't just learn japanese?
why read someone else's mtl fanfiction?

>>722914608 (OP)
what's wrong with 1?

>>722924487
Because then they wouldn't have an additional avenue to complain about trannies and brown people.

>>722924487
I can read japanese. I just open these threads to shit on translators who are bad at their jobs.

>>722914608 (OP)
>I will break all the light bulbs in your house with my hand
FUCKING SICK

>>722924362
>As a translation, not as an example.
Anon, these two parts of your sentence aren't in a void separate from one another. Examples need to be good at X, in this case how localizing works. If the localization in the example is bad, but conveys it as the ideal first step, then the example is bad and potentially damaging to all future education that follows.

If a computer class teaches people to finger type as the beginner optimal method, do you think most of those people are going to shift to proper typing etiquette? No, they're going to stick with finger typing.

>>722914608 (OP)
2>1>3>4

>>722915042
Because when faggots are using shit like MTL as their examples of what their ideal localization looks like it always reads like shit. Digimon Seekers is a fucking slog to read because of MTL. On top of that, even if a localization stays close to the original, if those same faggots don't like what the original text would say they will proceed to claim it's not part of the original script then use MTL to completely fuck up the original text so they can LARP as knowing Japanese despite the fact that if they did then they can easily just fucking ignore the localization.

>>722924594
actually a terrifying threat
>knows where I live
>knows where all the light bulbs in my house are
>has a plan to break into my house and break them all doing god fucking knows what after
insidious as fuck

>>722923128
I learned seeing stars from watching American cartoons. I've been hit pretty hard, but I would not have described it as seeing stars.

>>722923874
Presumably that would still be there in an actual literal translation rather than the awkward English to English translation. since the words lights and punch probably exist in most languages.

>>722924332
That sounds like a great phrase that isn't too hard to make sense of. I don't see any issue with, especially If I happened to watch enough Spanish media to see it regularly. I don't see any difference between learning this and learning actual English expressions.

>>722924686
Do NOT fuck with O.G. San

>>722924701
Then you never been rocked enough to receive a concussion or near one.

>>722921218
It can't be helped.
Deal with it, nerd.

>>722924487
Where do you think those translation corrections come from genius?

>>722924686
>knows where I live
it's not that terrifying as it's listed in a phone book

>>722920454
That's never what どいつもこいつも is used for.
>>722918604
All of the scum.

I'd rather play ai translation than what trannylators shit out currently

>>722916368
Everyone is a loser because I am

>>722914827
This is very true.

If you can't translate it properly, then just leave the weird idiom as-is. If you MUST translate the idiom poorly, then it should at least be autistically literal and also funny.

The last fucking thing I want to see is an idiom replaced with a wishy-washy native idiom, especially one that doesn't mean the exact same thing like the literal translation and clarifications do.

>>722919105
>I work as an actual translator
A real translator, i.e. technical manuals and other hard things or a "translator" that abuses MTLs working for pennies?

>>722914608 (OP)
>Original (in foreign language)
>It's all in english
Kill EOPs
Behead EOPs

>>722924869
>Minamimoto-who? Oh that minamimoto?
Correct translation considering the subtext and colloquial language used.

>>722914608 (OP)
Growing up with chop-socky kung fu flicks and playing russian eurojank games gave me an appreciation for #2. Zoomers wouldn't get it.

>>722924281
Why would it need to be a metaphor in the localization? The meaning of #1 is extremely obvious, it can be replaced by any direct threat.

>>722919460
You sure?

>>722919704
That is because everyone in Germany knows English and will often default to English, especially if they sense you aren't German.

Germans make it very easy for non-Germans to live in their country, much to their loss.

>>722924869
>>722925008
just confess, japanese is too hard

>>722914827
I share the same opinion.

>>722924701
Genuine question; are you autistic? I'm guessing that's why you're having trouble understanding this.

PLEASE STOP BULLY TRANSLATE
THEY DO THE GAME GOOD

>>722925156
Never said it wasn't. Kanji is the killer.

>>722924830
Wasn't that obsolete after The Terminator?

>>722917174
I pick translator notes, I loved learning those nitpicks about idioms back in the golden age of media.

>>722917491
This, that single translator made keikaku a well known word

>>722925223
I'm just open to learning new things. I'm not sure how that relates to autism.

Idioms and puns should generally be gutted unless it's a very Japanese game with a lot of other culture stuff. I want to laugh when I should laugh, not be like boy if I was japanese I'd get this joke but at least I learned something.

So many scanlators got that shit wrong and made so many comedy manga sterile jank.

Sometimes you're left with a visual pun and don't have the linguistic ability to make an English version, so TL notes on a one off thing like this is fine for an amateur.

>>722919105
>Japanese can't be translated literally
yes it can

with ff7 rebirth the Japanese is written like number 3 and the English is like number 1

>>722919576
KINO

>>722925427
>Kanji is the killer
you couldn't be any more wrong. it's kana-only words, including onomatopoeia
shocchuu, shindoi, shikkuri, gikochinai, shagamu, kichinto, kikkari, kukkiri, kippari, tekkiri, zubari, pokapoka, kankan, surari, supatto, jirori, porori, mocchiri, zurari, jitto, shi'in, garagara, garandou, kyorokyoro, chorochoro, charachara, etc.
at least moonrunes have meanings for you to glean from them (e.g. 未来 means future (not yet+come))

>>722914608 (OP)
3 is legitimately superior to 4.

>>722926164
Moonrunes are only useful if you know them already, at least syllables are just sounds you can get familiar with easily even if you read those parts slowly. The worst isn't those words by themselves but when there's a large portion of them using loan words. Its like, what happened to native words?

>>722914608 (OP)
There is a 5th type in which it will say literally
君の明かりを殴って消すつもりだ
"I'm going to turn off your lights with a punch" and add a TL note explaining that it's a euphemism.
You can also trade out
殴る
with
パンチ
but, I would use 殴る because punching with a fist isn't literally what's happening most of the times in english. If it's boxing then we would use パンチ, general fighting use 殴る.

>>722914880
You missed the point, but hit the goal anyways. Certain phrases need TL notes to teach the reader what is actually being said.

>>722926343
>Moonrunes are only useful if you know them already
it's almost like that's the case for any language WAAAAAAAOW
the point is kana words are basically completely new root words. i.e. much harder to learn than derived words, like, say, 金庫(gold/money+storehouse/warehouse = vault/safe)

>>722914608 (OP)
i don't get this example because 1 is an english phrase?????

>>722914608 (OP)
>I'm gonna punch your lights out
I'm gonna knock you out.

Done, what was so hard about that? Inb4 cope.

>>722926781
Most other languages are not hieroglyph based but syllabaries/abjads etc or alphabets which are much easier to figure out than moonrunes that have cultural connotation and you need to understand that specific cultural context on how a foreign people think. In the other systems you can just learn to recognize the written forms much faster and easier because for a western person, you already have a basic understanding of pairing individual letters to sounds so its not a huge shift.

>>722925615
How do you feel about trains?

>>722917485
>what do you do about words like senpai and kouhai
keep them in. the west has been exposed to Japanese culture for long enough to understand their meaning, and keeping them in the dialogue is an important part to understanding Japanese social dynamics.
>what about honorifics and yobisute
the west has honorifics as well, mr/mrs, sir/ma'am, your honor/excellency/majesty, etc. And we have yobisute as well, people drop the honorifics when talking with people they are familiar with, and also drop honorifics when talking to someone they don't like or respect. just translate them to a fitting western honorific. you could even keep the Japanese honorifics, as in the same argument with senpai the west has been exposed to Japanese culture long enough to know what they mean.
>what about kanji jokes
those are rare, and usually only in material that is going to be seen/played by people who are very familiar with Japanese culture and language already.
>what about dishes that aren't immediately apparent to foreigners
just say what they are in English, to use your (bad) example chahan is just fried rice, which any English speaker will automatically know what that is. even if it sounds weird, like grilled eggplant in egg custard with mushroom sauce (yakinasu no chawan mushi) just say what it is. that's way better than replacing the original food with fucking hamburgers and hot dogs.

any more bad examples you want to give me I can tear apart in seconds? we're not talking about some alien culture that we have no exposure to, the west has been in contact with Japan for almost 500 years at this point. just translate the shit and leave your stupid reddit maymays and leftist political garbage out of it.

>>722915107
I had a calendar event for August 2025, I planned to spend a few weeks in Japan for Summer Comiket, I set it as a goal when I planned to finally, for real this time, start learning Japanese.
I set that goal 5 years ago, and in that time I've probably put around at most 3 hours towards learning Japanese.

>>722924383
>I respect actual expertise from people who can put their money where their mouth is.
No you don't, you respect the autistic screeching of complete nobodies who share your own nobody opinion.

>>722918442
>>722918846
This guy would agree.

>>722919576
aAAAAAAIEEEEEEEEEE
GOMEN NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>722927263
>keep them in. the west has been exposed to Japanese culture for long enough to understand their meaning
95% of the time it's just pointless fluff. One sentence to introduce "this guy is my senior/junior/mentor/trainee" is enough most of the time. it's only when you have one of those retarded characters like Sakura who uses senpai as a annoying pet name where it becomes murky

>>722924281
That's the point of metaphor translation. You cannot do it 1:1 every time. Sometimes things are gonna fit perfectly, sometimes not. It's a trade-off.

>>722927263
Honorifics are just used in formal speech in the west public decorum asks for it. The biggest difference in Japanese I think are the counting words grammar-wise that person missed out on.
>Tachi can mean: Bunch of, Lot of, And Stuff, Alone.
For example and is sort of a counter word for "many of something." Then there's bunch of definitions per type of thing you are counting.

>>722924301
"I'm so fucked up"

>>722921407
>>722921562

>>722914608 (OP)
>weebs will look you dead in the eye

Why you can't just do the original translation is beyond me, unless it's some really obscure idiom. In which case just make it match one of our idioms/proverbs. Like

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_proverbs
>Deru kui wa utareru
>Literally: The stake that sticks up gets hammered down.
1:1 translation it

>Shiranu ga hotoke
>Literally: Not knowing is Buddha.
If the character is very buddhist-oriented then it'd be fitting to use it as is, but maybe transliterate it into ignorance is bliss
>>722915107
Quit your concern trolling shit. Japanese is consistently considered one of the hardest languages to learn. You concern trolling faggots are womanly with your passive aggressive guilt-tripping.

>>722924606
Well, let's be honest, it's not actually an example of translation at all. It's trying to illustrate ways of translating using same-language examples. The best and only real way to render "I'm going to punch your lights out in English is: "I'm going to punch your lights out". Every other step deviates from that and is arguably not a proper rendering.
But what it's actually doing is showing the process, by using exaggerated examples that show clear differences. People who insist there has to be a "better translation" are missing the point, because there isn't actually any translation to begin with. But the example for localisation does show some of the moves you might use during localisation - again, using an example that was already in English. That makes it a good example though being a poor "translation".

>>722917174
>There's many ways to translate this.
No, there is not. Using the amazing power of context, which you should have if your job is to translate the fucking script, you could just figure out if the character in question is called that because she steals men or valuables and translate accordingly instead of guessing, mixing or noting. (That said, I don't mind translator notes)

>>722927304
Is that Nabokov

>>722927401
but he's making a point. why would I side with the guy who does nothing and expects everything?

>>722914608 (OP)
Weeks can't look anyone in the eye

>>722927771
>you're allowed to be shit at your job and produce inferior products if you do not respect the buyers
Do you work at a chinese steel mill by chance?

>>722927823
>nazi scum can't spell

>>722927639
>The nail that sticks up gets hammered down.
Just makes more sense culturally in English, nails weren't often used in construction in Japan so they used stakes, in the west nails are more common association with building/construction work thus the nails. Ignorance is bliss is okay for the same reason.

>>722915107
Because moonrunes are ass.
I've been playing Japanese games and anime since pre-school and I can't learn the language because I can't tell them apart.

>>722924606
>>722927671
And that is of course besides the point that the textbook undoubtedly offers more examples and translation strategies suited for each type of translation as well as when they are appropriate; AND besides the point that even a localisation of an entire work doesn't literally have to adapt every sentence to some target language idiom but can frequently get away with #3 or even #2, because not everything will be an opaque dead metaphor.

>>722928071
Might be a font issue, if only they were larger in the text box.

>>722927179
They can be convenient, but unrelated. I think there must be some misunderstanding going on since I don't think it is that abnormal for someone to be able to figure out what "punch your lights out" or "I shit in the milk" would mean when used in context. Just to make sure it is clear, when I said the phrase doesn't make sense in English I didn't literally mean that I can't make sense of it. I meant that I do understand what it means, not because I needed someone explained it to me, but because I have seen it used in context as well as the comments about expressive language someone else made.

>>722928316
>I needed someone explained it to me, but because I have seen it used in context as well as the comments about expressive language someone else made.
But you have to understand not everyone is you, while these things may sound normal to you, they may not to someone else.
What you might understand and pick up quickly or have others you can ask, others may not and likewise they may not have people they could ask.
While you could just look it up on google many won't and will just continue watching the show missing certain intentions or may simply interpretive the literal meaning for how it is.

>>722914608 (OP)
Nobody is mad about the OP image. We're mad about pic related happening.

>>722915107
>people learn Japanese effortlessly by just watching anime for a year or two
>meanwhile I've been actively grinding that shit on top of watching anime for a decade and I still don't know shit
Man why do I even bother

>>722914827
>there are still hundreds of replies after this
yall niggas gettin trolled

>>722929119
Filthy Frank taught me all the words I ever need for claiming pussy in Japanese:
>Omanko kudasai.
>Ecchi shiyouse!

>>722915107
Legit, weeb shit is just the McDonalds of culture.
Not saying Japanese doesn't have anything outside of weeb shit but if you actually broaden your horizons a bit British literature is leagues ahead of Japanese literature and English original literature absolutely stomps on Japanese original.
Japanese culture is great but so is Indian, Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese etc.

>>722929315
>British literature is leagues ahead of

seeing ebonics or retarded zoomer language in a complete japanese game is super off putting and i ll never understand why they keep doing it, we learned nothing from 4kids

>>722923135
>8 hours of work
>8 hours of sleep
>1 hour of commuting
>1 hour of eating and hygiene
>1 hour of chores
>2 hour of spending time with your wife
>2 hours of spending tome with your kids
>1 hour of gym
Show me she spare hour

>>722928893
I get it and I just disagree with how to handle it. My main point of all this is that most languages likely have sayings like this that we have picked and learned to use without really thinking about it and the same would happen with any new sayings we are exposed to. Maybe it is a bit unfair since we learn better when we are kids and phrases like this will come more naturally, but I don't think it is good to assume that an adult is completely unable to process new things. If you go out of your way to play a game or watch something made by another culture, you should be open to the idea that part of their culture may be present in that media.

>>722919105
okay trannylator

>>722929040
>We're mad about shit I made up
Yeah, we know, that's the problem

>>722927263
>the west has honorifics as well
>>722927483
>in the west

Just say in English/Anglosphere if all your examples are from English

>>722929659
I didn't make it up though, but your defense of troonslators is noted.

>>722929730
You literally just made that example up though

>>722929696
German is even easier tho, it still has polite and impolite forms of address

>>722929696
It applies to all European languages as well due to culture. We sort of dropped the whole honorific spamming and only use honorifics if its a must because of elitist cunt would otherwise get upset about it 'jak spamming shitter who hasn't left his mother's basement in years.

>>722921218
ching chong ping pong bing bong fing fong

>>722927173
>or alphabets which are much easier
no they aren't. you only say that because you know all the root words already
try that shit with arab. it has its own alphabet but they're not logograms. you'll still struggle like a bitch

>>722929882
>>722929908
>replying to wojakniggers

>>722921218
Why does it can't be helped break brains? It's a perfectly sensible phrase.

>>722929798
It's slight hyperbole yes, but woke localizers are proud of the butchering they do and you know it.

>>722930075
So you are actually just mad about the thing you said you weren't mad about and not the thing you said you were mad about

>>722921218
"They don't think it be it is, but it do."

>>722929990
unclear tone

>>722927263
>the west has been exposed to Japanese culture for long enough to understand their meaning
you're speaking from your own vantage point. kids won't understand that shit without a primer
>the west has honorifics as well, mr/mrs, sir/ma'am
you don't use Mr. whatever to refer to other classmates
also see the problem presented by >>722927304 . publishers hate anything that sounds like a translation and will promptly shoot down your efforts. no, you don't have any room to negotiate this. if you refuse, they'll pick someone else who does the job. you're expendable, a cog in the machine. there are countless people who'd take your job in a heartbeat

>>722930145
I'm just going to assume you're jewish. Mazel tov, Chaim.

>>722929963
Arabic is similar to katakana/hiragana in terms of usage (syllabaries) levels of difficulty. Hangul is probably easiest variant on writing systems in similar way. Sanskrit (Tibetan/Whateversouthasiangarbage) though for any purpose? Forget about it.

>>722930214
Of course you are.

I know it's controversial, but I like this.

Compared to 4, yes. 2 is better

>>722915853
You need to insert context queues into a context sensitive language for a raw translation to be correct.

>>722929410
Name ONE SINGLE Japanese medium that is as influential as LotR

>>722930356
Then it's not a raw translation

>>722929908
>It applies to all European languages
Doesn't apply to Finnish. Except maybe for military

>>722914608 (OP)
what sort of monolingual nigger would need this explained in a textbook

>>722914608 (OP)
The big problem with trying to discuss this is that "Tomato" (the creator of the image in the OP) has no interest in actually showing what this process looks like, nor does he provide a fair example that illustrates the point properly.

After playing this I lost all respect for localizers

I just hate how localization insist on turning everything into a joke. The game could take place in a medieval fantasy land, a scifi space station, or senior home, and every line is some reddit quip. For fuck's sake, allow some things to be plain and serious. There's this thing called atmosphere

>>722929608
>1 hour of commuting
there you go

>>722930495
It does, nobody will demand you to use honorifics in casual language if you are familiar with them other than professional/working situation that demands the decorum of honorifics such as public speeches as I mentioned prior. Which you are referring to is "Teitittely." is the term for that and if you are ever unsure you can always ask "Voinko sinutella" if they are an old fart who might get upset, most don't or they'll correct you right away anyways.

>>722930658
>autist gets filtered by rhymes and alliteration
it's called soul

>>722930717
That's not a problem of localisation, that's a problem of low-paid unskilled translators working on tight deadlines

>>722930209
>Mr. whatever to refer to other classmates
we should bring that back though, mr. Anon

>>722930658
That trick is no good. Just translate it like that then. More accurate than zoom zoom fr fr no cap bs.

>>722929616
>you should be open to the idea that part of their culture may be present in that media.
You should! but again, many may not realise what's being said even is a "phrase" or more they may understand it's phrase in said country but the line comes off awkward in English or immersion breaking.
As a translator/localiser your job is to bridge that gap as well as possible, if I said
>I left my house today and it was so cold outside, at least 263 kelvin
You're going to be pulled out of my sentence right away
What's Kelvin? How cold is that? etc.
The job is to keep you as invested as possible and to do that you need to word things in a wat the viewer will understand.

>>722915853
>you have to insert information that isn't in the original text. "please be kind to me" is massaging it ("me" appears nowhere in the japanese text),
That's not adding information, poseur, the pronoun is implied
>tell me you don't speak Japanese without telling me you don't speak Japanese

>>722930867
How does working on tight deadlines allow them to put in the extra time and effort to fully rewrite the lines and invent jokes, in your opinion?

>>722931173
よろしく is a pain though. it's just a more polite way of saying よく (well)
there's no way to translate that without being inventive

>>722915107
Huh, so this is where my macro fetish came from. Dunno how I forgot about this episode.

>>722931187
They are more focused because "they have to get it done" rather than "I'll do it when the mood strikes." Less procrastination, more work.

>>722914608 (OP)
This analogy is shit. The game translators are shit. /v/ is shit. Everyone involved in the debate is shit and I hate them.

>>722931260
You're acting like the only options are to be perfectly literal or completely change the text. The sentiment of よろしくお願いいたしますis unambiguous. You can translate it as "Nice to meet you" and it's acceptable because it conveys the right sentiment. You could write something like "Let's be good to one another" and it gives it an authentic ("translated" to some) feel. It's not a literal translation but it's closer to the original sentiment, even though it's grammatically different.

>>722931187
It's a lazy and easy solution.

>>722931601
>お願いいたします
Damn, I accepted the prediction without reading it properly

>>722931173
>the pronoun is implied
That's one way of saying "not literally there"

>>722919298
It's the opposite, 98.5% of people seeking out gook media do it for sexual gratification.

How do you say video games in japanese

>>722931452
>This analogy is shit.
That's because it comes from Legends of Localtroonslation's book where he pretends to be a subject matter expert disseminating helpful information on the translation and localization process to those not knowledgeable on the subject. But as with literally every other thing he has ever done, it's not actually helpful nor meant to be helpful, but rather, it is intended to make money and make ignorant cattle feel like "instant experts" with some sort of "insider knowledge" because, why the fuck else would they pay money for his book?

I think a pretty good example of the phenomenon is looking at all the Evangelion localizations. The newer more "accurate" one genuinely sounds like shit because it's too direct.

>>722931824
Bideogeimu

>>722931715
The contention was that adding a pronoun is adding information, not a word. If I translate 元気い?as "are you well?" is it wrong because the "you" isn't written? A Japanese person would clearly understand I'm asking them, therefore the information is present even though the word isn't. How does it feel to need the concept of implication explained to you?

>>722914827
This

>>722931452
is there a naked version of this image

>>722931969
It's more commonly pronounced: a-chee gay-moo

>>722931901
What's wrong with the content of the book?

>>722921218
tough shit

>>722914880
I want all localizer trannies to go back to dilating RIGHT NOW

>>722932039
No, what you fail to understand is that supplying implied information is already a minor act of interpretation.

>>722924301
fuck this commie shit.

>>722914608 (OP)
But what was wrong with 1?

>>722931601
>You can translate it as "Nice to meet you"
that's not what yoroshiku onegaishimasu means
it's missing an object (what do you negau (wish (for))?

>>722930750
>just teleport to work bro

>>722932574
this
they translated it properly in 1 for the sake of the example and yet somehow cannot bring themselves to just use that kind of translating

>>722932574
The example was inherently flawed from the start. Refer to >>722930658

>>722929608
Fat ass didn't even budget exercise. Get a job fat ass

I WILL SWARM YOUR COCK WITH MY LINGERING LEACH!

>>722933097
The magnitude of your misunderstanding is difficult to capture in words

>>722914608 (OP)
Except localizers don't do this and often rewrite entire lines, completely changing their meaning on premises that are flimsy at best.

>>722914608 (OP)
Am I retarded, or is 1 the best translation? If 1 is attainable, then why settle for 3 or 4?

>>722929119
watch anime with japanese subtitles, immersion is the key to gains.
when i started out i'd watch an episode twice, once with jp subs and one with english subs to clear up misunderstandings.
it's a slog at first, but you will notice that you're mining less and less words over time because you understand it.
i have my browser set up to let me inject subtitles into any video player and use a hover dictionary to mine words directly into anki.

>>722933523
I think they chose an english phrase for the example and poorly established the rest.

>>722933479
Shut up bigot. That's not what they do. Educate yourself anime-obsessed virgin.

>>722933573
I get that. But in so doing, they inadvertently demonstrated that a clear, concise, and flavorful way of phrasing exists, that isn't as curt as 3, no as needlessly verbose as 4.

>>722933523
You are retarded

>>722933563
I don't think that'll make a difference I'm obviously just too retarded given others just learn passively with just EN subs

>>722933784
>others just learn passively with just EN subs
Your mistake is thinking that people actually do this, because this is just a meme.
10,000 hours of English subtitled anime will teach you almost nothing of worth, very little of the knowledge you'll acquire here will transfer cleanly to understanding raw Japanese. You'll be plagued with "dostedt effect" words - words you mis-heard as something else and assumed they must mean (thing), or other problems that arise from subtitles not accurately mapping to what characters mean or say.

Half the people in this thread that are going "derp why is #1 in english and why they don't just use that??" must be trolling. Right??? But then people keep surprising me with their stupidity, I can't be sure.

>>722915107
I'm lazy, simple as.
I dropped out of Uni (they were gonna kick me out due to sheer lazyness anyway) and now I'm stuck working 60 hours/week for minimum wage. When I was younger, I spent all day browsing the internet and not doing homework.
Like I said, I'm lazy.

>>722934013
I mean that Anon learnt it through subbed anime so clearly it works for some

>>722922819
Correct post. 2 is disingenuous at best from a writer who wants to convince the audience that 2 is always bad.

>>722934013
>dostedt effect
Is this self-referential? I can't find anything on this

>>722933563
this seems nice but i don't think i'm at the level where i can read jp subs fast enough
anyway is there a qrd on setting this up? even just getting and syncing jp subs seems ass heh

>>722933784
you say you're grinding, but if you're just grinding premade decks in isolation from immersion you're holding yourself back.
my biggest regret was getting 2500 words into the core 6k deck before i started immersing and mining my own cards. i wish i had started even earlier than that, like the 1200~1500 range instead of holding myself back with those thoughts of "i'm not ready to consume japanese content in japanese yet". my comprehension improved massively after i started just doing it and i know i'd never get beyond n4 if i just stuck to grinding premade decks in isolation.
the hardest part is how unprepared you are. you think you have a good core vocabulary, and then you realize that every genre has its own set of core vocab you need to learn.

>>722932762
It said it's reasonable to translate it to "Nice to meet you", not that it means it. The verb in that sentence is つる btw.

>>722934423
>2 is disingenuous at best from a writer who wants to convince the audience that 2 is always bad.
But it's not actually trying to do that. That's your assumption based on the baggage you're bringing into the conversation.

>>722934438
The "Dostedt Effect" is passive vocabulary acquisition in a language you aren't actively learning, except that you mishear or misunderstand the word and never acquire the "proper" pronunciation for it.

>>722914608 (OP)
#4 is the worst of the bunch

>>722930453
LOTR is abysmal dogshit for booger-eating morons. The Brits have never produced a good novel (barring unsubstantiated claims to the works of Sterne and Swift).
>b-but what about [Victorian novelist]!
Hacks, all of them. Creators of muddled works for the dull-witted.

>>722934705
Get cancer

For adults and serious storytelling media, 2 with a translator's note at the bottom that explains the context behind the arcane and obscure Japanese culture reference is correct

For children and comedy media, 4 is correct

>>722934506
I'm severely lacking in grammar so reading is a no-go. That part of the brain that just intuits language must be broken in my brain because I don't naturally absorb grammar through reading whatsoever.

>>722934780
I accept your concession. It seems that I have won the argument - enjoy reading your children's tales.

Perfect

>>722934785
tl notes are a really wondrous thing. when i was reading through pevear and volokhonsky's dostoevsky translations, they would write ~200 notes per novel to explain the dated or specifically russian cultural references - as such, they could insert quotes or idioms as-is and just leave a note.

>>722934486
>this seems nice but i don't think i'm at the level where i can read jp subs fast enough
you could just... gasp... pause

Why do thirdies get so offended by localizations overall when they can't speak Japanese or English proficiently? Is it just specifically tendie seethe because of the dogshit Treehouse translations?

>>722935090
Comparable to reading any novel with commentary, no? Most meta analysis is interesting esp. if you tack it right onto the source material

>>722934486
the setup is pretty simple. set up a hover dictionary, link it to anki, have a card template set up and all that jazz for the anki integration. for subtitles i'm just using the substital extension and kitsunekko or jimaku to source jp subtitle files from.

having a card template setup that you're happy with is probably the hardest part.

>>722935147
i guess but that ruins the flow and pacing better to just a read a manga or vn innit?

>>722914608 (OP)
>Original: I'm going to fucking hit you
>Adaptation: Ay caramba don't have a cow I have a bone to pick with you!

>>722935090
Trying to explain niche or obscure cultural references for a time period or country is time consuming and difficult

But have some respect for the audiences respect, maybe I am an intelligent adult and maybe I actually do care about the original media as it was presented

Maybe I dont need the original work translated into 2020 english with emojis and modern slang, maybe myself and every other adult that is reading can handle the messy complex truth

>>722934671
Ah, it's from /a/, that would explain it

>>722935279
>i guess but that ruins the flow and pacing better to just a read a manga or vn innit?
As a learner, you don't get to complain about the pacing of anything being ruined. You are the weak link, and you will only grow stronger by going at a speed you can handle.

>>722935183
I like that the left and right have both come together in hating brown third worlders

>>722914880
You're right, and everyone that responded to you is a shitlib redditor trannylator supporter.

>>722935090
This is great for literature but not so great for a real-time video game aimed at teenage girls

>>722914953
too savage, too based.

Localization is great until you localize something whose original meaning and nuance is called back to later on and you're left high and dry with your irrelevant localized wording and have to further contrive a connection or say fuck it and give up on the connection

>>722935273
gotcha, thanks
and i assume for downloaded anime you'd just play the file through your browser right?

>>722914608 (OP)
2 is pretty funny so yeah I'm fine with it

>>722930343
It's only controversial to ESLs.

>people with the worst literacy skills have the hardest stance on the issue
interdasting

>>722914608 (OP)
The first issue with this is the shitty clarification. I'm going to hit you misses half the meaning (making the other person unconscious/knocking them to the ground with a punch).
Then the adaptation is a shitty pun instead of slang like the original.
The adaptation should be something like "I'm going to knock you out / I'm going to deck you"

>>722936159
It's the Dunning Kruger effect

>>722915214
>they are supposed to use keigo
That's so rude. Done shopping? k, go.

You translation NIGGERS always complain about localization but never bother to learn the fucking language
>But it's not my job!
Too bad, things will never get better, things always sucked, it just sucked in different ways
>It's too hard!
The lowest IQ retard from Japan can speak and understand basic Japanese. Even if that guy was born in Japan and had a head start, are you admitting be being beneath a retard?
>I'll never be fluent!
You don't need to be fluent, even a 60-75% understanding is good enough and you can fill the rest in with context clues
Pick up a goddamn textbook and some notecards/anki already. There's a buhmillion resources on the internet for how to learn Japanese and all you need to do is grind away at it for at least 2 hours a day
>But that's time I could be spending playing vidya or watching anime
Ah yes, the same vidya and anime you bitch about being censored or given a woke translation because you don't want to give up a little time to read the non-woke or censored or whatever version.

>>722935745
ar ye shur lad? I dinnae tink many peeps ar lookin ferwerd ter tha scots aksint

>>722918792
agreed, makes me mad more don't do shit like this
coming across weird gags in manga and having the TR note be "uh yeah, so in their language, the words are pronounced the same but have different kanji or whatever, we can't really translate that"

>>722936461
Yeah I'm sure

>>722924850
Wrong. Check Sonic X Episode 3 at 16:20, Knuckles uses it like that and by itself.

>>722920417
Don't forget Erin Pizzey. Founded the world's first shelter for abused women. Figured that most of those women are abusers themselves, and most domestic violence is mutual. Tried to create a shelter for abused men. Feminist movement immediately turned against her.

>>722936461
>>722936645
God help you if you ever decide to grow brain cells and work your way through English literature that is considered the best of its kind because of the amount of care and autism put into capturing in written form authentic American Southern accents to within miles of their origin points.

>>722914608 (OP)
>break all the lights in your home
If 2 is wrong, how can 3 and 4 be right?

>>722927741
Yes

>>722930356
>>722931173
>don't give me your woke interpretation or adaptation to western norms, tranny, just give me what the author said.
>well of course you have to include the stuff the author was implying! just because his audience would understand doesn't mean i do!

>>722931601
"the right sentiment", e.g. vibes based translation.
it's a lot more elegant if you just admit you're not really concerned with accuracy, you're concerned with people being inaccurate in a way that makes you cringe. nobody but the deepest autists care about banal inaccuracies like "nice to meet you" just being vaguely the sort of thing an english speaker would find natural in that context while being totally different to what the japanese text says - but that doesn't make it "accurate" either.

>>722937047
Maybe I just read a lot of literature as a teenager but that was pretty understandable to me.

>>722937263
>well of course you have to include the stuff the author was implying
The implication is a feature of the language

>just because his audience would understand doesn't mean i do!
Incoherent response

>just admit you're not really concerned with accuracy, you're concerned with people being inaccurate in a way that makes you cringe
I said there is a world of options in between "literal translation" and "completely change the text" that you are autistically ignoring

>>722937567
>The implication is a feature of the language
A feature that makes "raw translation" into English incomprehensible if not downright impossible

>>722918106
You have already lost dude. Weebspeak is preferable to whatever abominable brainrot dialects are developing on tik tok as we speak. Your kids are gonna talk about people getting unalived and warning each other to never cook again and genrally speaking as if there is a content algorithm banhammer hovering over them, while at the same time use of LLM shit will hamper their ability to eloquently and precisely express themselves on their own because theyll get used to a machine doing it for them in formal contexts.

>>722937567
>>722937771
Don't even bother trying to have linguistics discussions here as they pertain to translation and localization. The users barely speak enough English and are ill equipped to talk about the features of their own language in basic terms.

>>722918629
this

>>722937889
There are definitely some fakers ITT. The guy who tried to tell me 願う is the verb in お願いします being the most egregious example, imagine getting it that wrong when there are so many ways to tell (お being a prefix for nouns, for example).

>>722937771
You're just going round in circles 草
Face it you don't have a coherent point

>>722937889
You can definitely say "The weather is great today, too" without any explicit prior mention of yesterday's weather.

>>722938510
It has to refer to something.

>>722938510
You definitely can. You'll sound like an ESL in the process and people will ask what you mean by "too"

>>722914608 (OP)
#1 is the whole meaning, is it not? No reason to make it about juice instead. Goddamn.

>>722938479
>You're just going round in circles
Because you are.

>>722938560
It does. Yesterday's weather. But it doesn't need to be mentioned explicitly.

>>722938510
If you want to sound like an alien, yes.

>>722938612
Failed the autism test

>>722938626
>literal "no you" response
I accept your concession

>>722938703
Let's make it about fucking dogs instead.

>>722935458
>mouse over footnote indicator
>explanatory note shows up
wow how difficult (granted this wouldn't work for console games but those are dogshit/plot-irrelevant)

>>722938691
>It does. Yesterday's weather
I had no way of knowing that. Maybe you were thinking of some other nice thing from today.
A normal person would say "another lovely day".

>>722937567
when an implication is a grammatical feature vs when it's authorial intent is just another case where the translator has to make an arbitrary decision.
there is nothing incoherent about my response: the original author's audience would understand the implication, the overly-literal translator's audience would not. if there's a mistake, it happened earlier, in choosing a greeting as an example rather than one of the cases where someone says "yes, yes, yes, definitely" and means "politely: no"

there are a world of options, but all of those options involve inaccuracies, tradeoffs, and so on. getting back to the original point i was illustrating in reply to >>722915042 , basic conversations have to be massaged because they play out very differently in japanese and english. translation is one big exercise in massaging and the main problem people really have is when the translation draws attention to itself by saying something the author obviously didn't say, rather than the main problem being "inaccuracy" per-se. if you want a 100% accurate read on japanese, move to japan 20 years ago and become fluent in japanese.

>>722938764
People here seem to be under the impression that if you get your opponent to say "no u" then you win. Which is great news for disingenuous hypocrites who love to accuse others of what they do themselves.

>>722938846
>another lovely day
Which was the first lovely day? Yesterday? A week ago???

>>722917174
are burgers and other english retarded? you literally translate this to; that woman is stealing men/that woman is a male poacher

ect. translation is equal of keeping context, not of translating something 1:1

>>722938991
It's a self-contained implication that prior days have been lovely

>>722935597
i use asb player for local files
it's an in browser media player that has anki integration built into it. it also does other cool stuff like clipping the audio from the sentence you mined and taking a screenshot for your anki card.

>>722939065
>you literally translate this to; that woman is stealing men/that woman is a male poacher
Great, you lose the idiom and it's still stilted unnatural language

>>722938991
"Another" creates implicit serialization, which an isolated "too" does not.

>>722939065
>that woman is a male poacher
Nobody speaks like this except Omi from Xioalin Showdown, and the joke was that he had no real concept of idioms and metaphors.

>>722939065
>Is english retard? Here am the righteous translatink into the english, what difficult huh

>>722930209
>kids will easily learn and internalise over a thousand pokemon names and attack names but it's unreasonable to ask them to remember a small handful of Japanese words during the game

>>722938576
Somebody could be listing off things that are making them happy right then and end it all with saying 'and the weather is great too!'

>>722939097
So does the "too," although to emphasize the temporal relation "again" would be more idiomatic (the "too" could otherwise refer to completely different things that are currently "great").
The point is that everyone already knows which days had great weather or what things are great. Like in the Japanese example.

>>722939909
Exactly the point. There has to be a context.

>>722939909
If they're listing things off, then it has already satisfied the requirements for using "too" here, since it refers back to the list of things that they are happy about.
But say you open a scene like picrel with this - while the audience is meant to understand that "eating lunch with Tsubomi" is a habitual, recurring event, "too" completely fails to convey this in a way that a native English speaker handles this same line of thinking.
You would need a setup to provide the context for "too" here for it to sound natural - "I had lunch with Tsubomi yesterday..." leading into the line, for example.
But this is the norm in low-level J-E translation. This is what people think is a "literal" "direct" rendering when, in fact, there is information missing from it since "too" by itself fails to represent what も does.

>>722938510
Don't bother with trannylator faggots. All they'll do is come up with non-stop excuses for why they need to turn a perfectly good Japanese IP into Californian dogshit.

>>722939174
>unnatural language
maybe have more IRL conversations then

>>722940387
Don't you think that a proper understanding of translation theory might actually help you argue your position better? Or if you're afraid that a better understanding would lead you to abandon your position, doesn't that say enough?

>>722940605
Everybody is having a different debate in this ITT. You are all talking past one another.

>>722940594
Bruh
If you told me someone was a "male poacher" I'm imagining a bearded guy in furs with a rifle, not a serial adulteress.

>>722940605
I don't want to hear about patriarchy or veganism in my Japanese Animes, you faggot.

I'd let him poach my man any day of the week.

>>722940759
Yeah but people like >>722940963 are doing so intentionally

>>722940930
then stop forcing japanese phrases into english, if you lacking the equivalent just create it or use something different like 'this kitty girl is stealing men from other girls' IDK, who the hell care is it will be too long, for fuck sake

>>722941065
And the irony is he's creatively reinterpreting my words rather than taking them literally

>>722941271
Do you remember what you were responding to

>>722941065
Don't care, faggot. Stop ruining things with your California sensibilities.

>>722941387
Stop ruining threads with your schizo sensibilities

>>722939065
"that woman is a male poacher" sounds like you're talking about a transsexual poacher

>>722941387
I'll agree to remove my California sensibilities if you'll agree to remove your New York ones. Deal?

>>722941530
Stop defending trannylators.

>>722934225
If the example was posted in Japanese and they just translated 1, then its ironic that the need to translate or localize further is being done.

>>722941665
Remove the dick in your ass, first.

>>722941681
Learn Japanese

>>722941363
ever heard about context before?
no wonder you can't translate things from japanese if an ESL needs to explain you context and stuff

you will keep shitting on me while you fucking force some bullshit and cry about lack of idioms, ridiculous, don't call yourselves translators

>>722941821
>ESL
Yeah, we could tell

>>722914827
Seething incel post. You will NEVER be a translator while we continue to sneak in social justice and trans supportive ideology ;)

>>722936712
>sonic autist
gomen gomen, machigaimashita
>>722924850
That's almost never*

>>722919576
It doesn't actually mean that