Thread 722963582

>protagonist gets dumber and dumber as the franchise goes on
any other examples of this?

>>722963582 (OP)
namine pretty much lobotomized him

DDD was nothing but character assassination after character assassination one after another over and over again

What bugs me about Sora is he had a pretty good arc going through the first three games, to the point where he struck me as a very experienced and capable hero at the end of KH2. Then Nomura had to totally regress him because apparently saving the universe two or three times just isn't enough to shake off your underdog status.

>>722964127
KH1/CoM/2/days is the complete narrative and everything else is an afterthought designed to keep the franchise going. Ironically, CoM/2/days are also afterthoughts. Nomura just writes these game-by-game I'm pretty sure.

>>722964103
Xemnas was made into a cheap side villain after he seemed so menacing in 2.

>>722964048
He wasn't too stupid in 2. He got painfully dumb in 3D and 3.

>>722964461
If you watched the final battles of KH2 and KH3 back-to-back with no clue about their context in the story, I think you'd have a very good chance of thinking Xemnas was a more important, powerful, and impactful villain than Master Xehanort. He just comes across as far more impressive without needing to try as hard.

I hate it more than Haley Joel was made to do an aged down Sora in 3D and then stuck with that voice in 3 for some reason. His KH2 voice was perfect honestly.

>>722964430
NO BUT LE 3 KNIGHTS HIDDEN ENDING

>>722964654
Master Xehanort was great in BbS, when he was voiced by Nimoy and you could feel his presence throughout the entire narrative. He felt neutered in 3.

>>722964430
Your nostalgia really doesn’t override the fact that Nomura wanted to do BbS from the very beginning of the series.
>KH1 Square interview before the actual release of the game, Nomura mentions he wants to explore the keyblade wielders of the past in a future title
>KH2 final Ansem report hints that Xehanort is an amnesiac keyblade wielder, and Xigbar mentions fighting keyblade wielders in the past too
>Days literally has Xion turn into Ventus and Xemnas compare Roxas to Ventus openly
You really can’t get around it. This isn’t counting the scenes 2FM added, obviously.

>>722964917
It had a lot to do with presentation. Nothing about the final confrontation with Master Xehanort wowed me like Xemnas ripping a city apart and throwing it around with a wave of his hand, for instance, even though MX was supposed to be wielding the apex of power in the KH universe. Of course Leonard Nimoy did a fantastic job voicing him, but I don't think that's all it was.

>>722964461
Xemnas in general felt like a special entity (the only nobody other than Roxas/Namine to have a different voice from the original) and it was almost painful to see all the Org members treat him like shit in 3.

>>722965409
>Thought that every nobody would be different from their human counterpart like Xemnas/Roxas/Namine
>lol no the three you see just happen to be the exceptions
Fucking stupid

>>722964917
>you could feel his presence throughout the entire narrative. He felt neutered in 3
Because Nimoy was dead. Even his JP actor died.

>>722965574
And then Rutger Hauer who they got for 3 died and they had to get Christopher Lloyd for the DLC. Protip: don't hire actual old people to voice old characters if you're planning to have the series last for awhile.

>>722965898
I did not care for the english replacements.
At least the japanese replacement TRIED to sound like the previous guy.

>>722965970
Eng KH has always prioritized their Disney connection to pull big name talent when they can instead of just getting someone fits the part. Granted most of them do a good job.

>>722965369
In BbS he’s terrifying and manipulating the other antagonists (Braig, Maleficent, Vanitas) into capitulating, Ventus goes into PTSD schizo episodes around him, and he’s feeding into Terra’s insecurities throughout the narrative. Every scene he’s in, he has complete control over the moment, and his influence everywhere else is palpable.

In 3, he’s literally just sitting on a rock waiting for Sora to show up for the entire runtime of the game. He’s such a non-presence that even his underlings seem completely bored to be there, or have zero emotional stakes being in the cult this time around. Xehanort himself doesn’t even show up until the last world of the game. It’s really emblematic of Nomura wanting to hurry up and move on to the Master of Masters and his story.

>>722965970
The Japanese guy was his son, and also voiced Ansem and Terranort. They were also Big Boss and Solid Snake, which was cute.

>>722966039
All the JP actors are big name talent too. Non-Japanese just aren't aware of them.
But Roxas/Ventus is Koki Uchiyama who gets TONS of work and is a pretty big VA name.

>>722966235
>But Roxas/Ventus is Koki Uchiyama who gets TONS of work and is a pretty big VA name.
in 2005 when he first got the role?

>>722966358
Depends on who was promoting him but yes?

>>722963582 (OP)
>protagonist gets dumber and dumber as the franchise goes on
>sora
Anyone who thinks this legitimately isn't paying attention. Sora is exactly the same level of stupid from KH1->KH3D, he just stops being a lucky motherfucker who's able to power through everything in KH3D. In KH3 Sora is legitimately the smartest person in the cast for like 70% of the fucking game.

>>722963582 (OP)
Dragon Ball

>>722966235
Yeah. Larxene in JP is Asuka from Eva, for example, and >>722966207 the Ohtsukas are/were in literally everything. If you’ve watched a handful of popular “entry level” anime in Japanese, you’ve definitely heard Toyoguchi (Aqua’s VA) at some point.

It's not that he got dumber he was just flanderized

>>722965112
Oh fuck off, what does nostalgia have to do with not liking a bad prequel?

>>722966358
The way Roxas' jp voice sounds like a little boy left such an impression on me and now that I look the VA up, he most likely did the role when he was in high school and it was among his first roles

>>722966562
Personally I liked him as Philip in Fuuto Tantei.
The green hair guy on the left

It's funny watching the Sixth Sense and knowing that kid grew up to be Sora.

>>722966562
Yeah he was like 15 when KH2 came out, he absolutely wasn't a big name back then.

>>722966645
Well he is now. As is everyone that worked on KH.
No one gives a shit about the english actors in KH tho. The non-Disney character ones i mean

>>722966461
Bullshit, things like getting the power of waking out of fucking nowhere, being able to jump from body to body and using Xehanort as some sort of portal is not smart, it's consecutive asspulls

>>722966631
I was slightly upset they didn't just haul in the original actors to do the voices, probably because of business bullshit.

>>722967727
They didn't because live action acting isn't the same as VA acting.
America thinks its the same which is why their cartoon movies suck.
You don't haul in a live action actor to do VA.

>>722966637
With KH4 in the works, I dunno if Osment is returning to voice Sora or is he retiring from voicing Sora?

>>722967827
Their actors would regularly just do the voices while the suit actor was actually acting as W though.

>sora figures out sonic blade, ars arcanum, ragnarok and strike raid on his own and with some teaching depending on move in KH1
>yen sid has an autistic temper tantrum that he's not fighting like a "real" keyblade master and he needs to start over like five times
>sonic blade, ars arcanum, ragnarok and strike raid are very high level commands to slot for ventus, terra, aqua
>limit form in KH2 and second form in KH3 are among the more useful of sora's transformations (especially in the context of sora not needing partners for limit form) and both of them are just sora fighting like himself at previous level caps

>>722967867
That's different.

Speaking of VAs has anything interesting come out of Gallagher streaming the series so far? I'm hesitant to watch any of it because I'll cringe into a black hole at any "omg my gerbil died can u say may ur heart be ur guiding key 4 me? ;_;" comments.

>>722967832
The only reason he wouldn't return is if Disney decided to can him after the jew comments he made earlier this year. The dude loves Sora and has even stated before that Sora is his favorite role.

>>722968358
Unless that celeb is playing level 1 crit KH2, I don't give a fuck.
I have 0 desire to go watch some shitty celeb play KH on beginner.

How did he break the Xehanort curse?

>>722966461
You're stupid.

>>722968528
Don't jinx it. He still has time to die before KH4.

He's not dumb he just thinks with his heart

>>722968512
Thanks for sharing

>>722964127
>bugs

ITS RIKU THEY PUT BUGS IN HIM

>>722968512
>that celeb
>some shitty celeb
Ummm?

>>722967941
Sora was then only person in the known history of Kingdom Hearts who knew how to make his Nobody a real person.

>>722967941
They also all died in seconds and needed Sora to do everything on every single battlefield so maybe the lesson being taught is that everyone in the world of KH is pants shittingly retarded and deserves death.

>>722968358
He's balder than Xehanort.

>arguing about sora's intelligence
>a game about disney characters

>>722969216
>mfw he's younger than me
HUH, fuck I'm getting old

>>722964430
>days
Why?

>>722969194
Riku is weird because he can be competent... when he's playable. He actually does shit in CoM and DDD. Then 2 and 3 are Sora-only games so he can't do shit without Sora there to hold his hand.

>>722969394
>hen 2 and 3 are Sora-only games so he can't do shit without Sora there to hold his hand.


All the Remind boss fights was Riku playing as Data Sora except for the Yozora fight.

And he protected Sora from the heartless when they killed everyone

>>722964048
I just bought her Bring Arts figure. It has sculpted and removable panties.

>>722969543
Are we sure that it was Riku and not Cid? The dude was still sitting in the damn chair when the cutscene to start the data fights ended and the one immediately afterwards when you completed it all. Unless I am forgetting something.

>>722969216
Must be Billy Zane's darkness

>>722969861
Cids an old 28 year old man he couldnt beat a superboss

>>722969286
which is really saying something how stupid Sora becomes later in the series. Fucking Goofy has more intelligent moments than him.

KH4
>Replaced the villain from KH1-3 with comic relief Marvel quipping mobile gacha character who appeared in 2 cutscenes in the actual games for 6 minutes and 36 seconds
>Organization XIII is replaced with mobile gacha characters who have cardboard one dimensional personalities and appeared in 1 cutscene for 2 minutes and 55 seconds in the actual games
>In order to understand backstory you need to play mobile gacha (WHICH IS OFFLINE NOW)
>Another mobile gacha that was supposed to contain crucial backstory got cancelled
>QTEs
>Strong woman representation
>Unreal Engine 5
>Nomura is retiring and giving away the franchise to literally who
IT'S OVER

He became retarded in DDD, Nomura just gave up at that point

>>722963582 (OP)
Animated sitcoms

>>722971401
Nomura is the one who wanted all the stuff above you mentioning him though? I'm not sure how him retiring is bad when he drove it into the ground to begin with.

>>722965112
What was the one reference to a prior keyblade wielder in KH1, and did that world show up in BbS or not? Hell, there was nothing suggesting the keyblade wasn't unique until literally the ending of KH1.

>>722971401
>Strong woman representation
>implying
Nomura is incapable of having a woman do anything but lose instantly. They aren't even allowed to be half competent.

>>722971956
Triton knew about the keyblade because some keyblade weilder must have fucked his shit up in the past

>>722971956
>What was the one reference to a prior keyblade wielder in KH1,

All the legends that Yuffie and Leon knew about had to come from somewhere too. It was way more than just 1 reference.

>>722963582 (OP)
My boy Ash Ketchum. 20 years and he only became more retarded, you think he'd know all the weaknesses/strengths by heart by the time he hit Hoenn, but nope.

>>722970956
>Cids an old 28 year old man
He is definitely older than 28. He is at least in his 40's in Kingdom Hearts. Hell, the Manga shows that he raised Squall, Aerith, and Yuffie after Radiant Garden fell.

>>722963582 (OP)
Mortal Kombat after 9

>>722964048
I was thinking about this in another thread but how would a potential scenario where Sora chose not to restore his memories would work?
Consider that and the end of COM, before eating the bugs and sleeping in the pod, Sora DID remember Kairi just before he was put to sleep, so those """""""'chain of memories"""'""""""" are still there, so what if Sora decided not to sleep in the pod? Here is my TL;DR fanfic of a premise
>Sora decides not to sleep in the pod, but Donald and Goofy still do to get back their memories of the King AT THE RISK OF FORGETTING SORA(although given their relationship theyd pull a shonen and still be able to remember him)
>Sora now choosing this path has the option to go back to Destiny Islands and meet Kairi, but knowing the consequences of his choice, would have to rekindle their relationship with Kairi by either remembering their bond with Riku and going from there or just having a fresh start completely
>Riku would still choose to walk the path he chose, but instead of protecting Sora it would solely on building his character and resistance/growth to the darkness
>Roxas now not having the issue of memories leaking from Sora to him, he is allowed to grow simply as his own person, with most of his motivations staying largely the same. In this case either Riku still decides to stop Roxas from attacking the organization due to Diz's orders cause Diz hates fucking Nobodies(leading to roughly the same start of KH2) or Riku is more level headed cause he doesnt need to protect Sora from regaining memories, and they are allowed to be mutuals and team up at a later date
>If we want Days to still exist in my scenario, Xion either actually stays as a fucking husk, or through sheer willpower from Roxas(cause canonically he has a heart) projects his own energy and she becomes her own person, and the whole killing her thing can still happen but possibly under different means

>>722964738
Haley’s KH2 Sora voice was natural because he was only 17 at the time so it’ll never be perfectly replicated again thanks to aging unless you use AI.

>>722973006
nah he still sounds like kh2 sora. It comes out in his normal speaking voice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWhNhRs2vmY

>>722971776
>[Guy who made the game] is the one who wanted all the stuff [in the game]
Holy FUARK! That's crazy!
>I'm not sure how him retiring is bad
You are not sure if the guy who made all the games in the 25 year old series retiring and giving away the franchise to random pajeets is bad???? Are you like 5 years old?

>>722972483
>Nomura is incapable of having a woman do anything
Yeah except there were 10 trillion strong women characters in KH3 and in the last game little girl Kairi defeated Xehanort (mega powerful wizard who was the antagonist of the series for 20 years)

I’m still pissed they screwed over Hayden Patteneire and Billy Zane from ever returning as Kairi and Ansem respectively, especially considering they both WANTED to come back but Square didn’t contact them because they’re retards.

Hayden’s been there since KH1 alongside Haley and David wonky to replace her with Alyson Stoner who fucking sucks ass (I don’t mind her as Xion tho) and Richard Epcar doesn’t really nail Ansem the way Billy did.

>>722973006
Nah man I think Hayley has the range to do it, whoever directed him for 3 just decided to go in the wrong direction. Like I remember for that Smash trailer the shit that made pog wasnt fucking Sora reveal itself, but when he spoke I instantly recognized it as more akin to KH2 Sora to the point I thought Sakurai was just reusing old voice clips.

>>722973187
Dude literally in Melody of Memories Nomura brought back Sora right at the end just to not have Kairi win

>>722973187
Larxene did nothing. Aqua got stomped immediately and was worthless and Kairi was there to die and only in DLC did she fight Xehanort alongside Sora and beat him ALONGSIDE Sora. Then she got a rhythm game where Sora saves her in the end.
t. actually played the games.

>>722973130
He's made nothing but shit for the past 10+ years I don't really see what the big deal is if someone else comes in and also makes shit

I really love almost every single Kingdom Hearts game. I dont even have the heart to defend myself anymore because I'm.always being bombarded with hate. I dont even disagree with all criticisms either. You dont love something because it's perfect. How do you even express joy and happiness on the internet. I forgot. Everything is rage bait and hidden behind irony.

>>722974186
>defend myself
Who cares? For anything you enjoy, you'll find at least one person, whether in sincerity, or just as an excuse to shitpost, that hates it. Even if you theoretically convinced them, what would that change?
At least Kingdom Hearts threads still have some genuine amount of discussion still regularly buried in them, most games aren't that lucky.

>>722972535
Yeah. and they specifically call it "the keyblade" not "a keyblade".

>>722973873
Can you list examples of when a long running series changes creator and it suddenly improves?

>>722975378
Final Fantasy 6

>>722975509
Except every FF is standalone so you can easily change entire dev team every game

>>722975607
Oh sorry I was responding to
>>722975378
not the rules invented after my post.

>>722975378
I mean technically Devil May Cry was Hediki Kamiya's baby but once he left the franchise basically became Itsuno's wild ride if that counts
Also if you count Mario with just the mainline platformer games anytime Koizumi touches something it turns to fucking gold with shit like Galaxy and Odyssey. Plus Mario in general has hardly been touched by Miyamoto by the Switch era came around so shit like Wonder also proves the rule.
Also technically you can count DKC cause they created basically a whole new franchise based off Miyamoto's character, and the Bananza team itself doesnt have any of the Rare team as far as Im aware and they resurrected that franchise big time. It happens a lot more then you think.

>>722976430
>Devil May Cry
It wasn't long running when it changed creator
>Mario
They are all standalone
>DKC
They are all standalone

>>722964127
>Sora is he had a pretty good arc going through the first three games
No he didn't, he was an utter tard for no reason in 2

>>722976841
>Mario sequels are standalone
Motherfucker are you still waiting for Mario 128 or something shut the fuck up you know thats BS logic

>>722976882
No he wasnt fag there was no scenario in 2 where any action Sora took directly resulted in any harm or long standing consequence that actively hindered his goals. He is typical shonen protagonist, does funny things but gets shit done.
If you dont remember what an actual dumbass looks like play BBS again, the entirety of that story is an Idiot Plot in motion where all our main characters act like retards cause otherwise their would be no plot

>>722977327
You unironically think that a game like Super Mario Wonder is not standalone?

>>722977529
Motherfucker the original premise was long running SERIES, Wonder is part of the main SERIES of mainline 2D Mario platformers. Is your criteria needing a number 5 or 6 at the end of the fucking title what is your logic here?