Thread 723056042

>used exactly 3 times in the entire game
is it a bad game design

Yea

>>723056042 (OP)
it reminds you of your roots

>>723056042 (OP)
use it as furnace fuel

Its a wooden axe. Is reality bad game design?
At least you can shave wood with it or burn it in a furnace.
Also you don't actually need a wooden axe ever. Youre thinking of the pickaxe

>>723056042 (OP)
Did you mean to post this?

The same could honestly said about MOST of minecraft's "game design". It's pretty objectively terrible. Not that that is what people are there for (honestly the least shit thing on the market for people to make "game levels" they can share with their friends and play together on)

The wooden hoe is the worst since nobody is gonna be farming before getting stone tools.

>>723056302
>You now remember they nerfed gold swords to make them even MORE worthless than they already were

>>723056226
>Is reality bad game design?
Yes, that's why Minecraft doesn't feature a thirst meter despite thirst existing in real life, it would be boring and bad for the game.

When did minecraft peak?

>>723056423
Cliffs and Caves of course

>never waste diamonds on a hoe
truly they were words of wisdom

>>723056042 (OP)
>you immediately discard the lowest tier of equipment that's only meant to be used at the very start of the game as soon as you get better equipment. Is this bad?
No? Why would that be bad design?

>>723056423
Just before hunger, when the game had enough block variety to build lots of fun shit, but not TOO much to the point where making skin packs was out of line for amateur artists, and the game didn't actively punish you for playing.
Yeah it was still kind of shit to have tool durability but notch put a racing stripe in that particular pair of pants really early on.

>>723056042 (OP)
Your issue is that you know how to play. Remember, when the game first released there was no in-game tutorial. You were simply let loose to try to find out what to do.
You hit things and pick them up. You'd stumble into crafting planks and sticks by playing in the menu. You'd make wooden items and play with them, then wonder why they broke so quickly. So you'd wonder if stone would work on the crafting table. You were meant to discover better techniques to play.
This part of the game has become redundant because you have 64 stacks of netherite bricks in your self-sorting storage area. It's not the game's fault you moved on to the next step.

>>723056498
you haven't beaten the game until you complete a netherite set

>>723056515
>tool durability
I don't have a problem with tool durability in Minecraft. It works in Minecraft because resources are relatively easy to acquire and tools are cheap to make, so it provides you a continuous baseline reason to keep exploring underground and acquiring resources. Compare that to Terraria, for example, where resource gain is slower, and item costs are expensive, so there's no need for item durability. And sure, you could argue that it's the laziest and least creative way to "keep the game going", but at the end of the day, there needs to be some incentive for you to continue mining and crafting.

>>723057097
Tool durability ALMOST, MAYBE, POTENTIALLY made sense back when a minecraft world was 256 blocks across, as it stands now it's completely retarded, especially given you still drop your gear on death.

>>723057594
>tool durability made more sense when the world was smaller and there were less resources
???

>>723058582
I think what I said was pretty straightforward anon.
Tool durability made more sense when the world of minecraft was a 256x256 block island and could be mined with ~41 diamond picks.

>>723058948
What makes sense about it there but not in current MC?
Also are you going to address any of the points I made here? >>723057097

>>723059165
>What makes sense about it there but not in current MC?
There's far fewer blocks, especially in render distance in indev, meaning the quantity of blocks you can mine makes practical sense for the tools you're using.
>Pretend it's reasonable game design because it could make someone got spelunk for more tools and try to argue against this
No

>>723059340
(You)

>>723059496
Don't bring weak shit to the plate and expect me to waste the time swinging.
Terraria already settled this conversation 14 years ago when in a 2D fucking sandbox game they thought durability would be too much.

>>723056042 (OP)
>wooden tools
SOVL

>>723056423
There's two peaks for me.
Before the adventure update (1.8) where hunger was introduced. Beta minecraft just had so much soul to it.
And the modern peak is caves and cliffs, where adding an entirely new depth to the underground really helped expand it.

>>723058948
>~41 diamond picks.
i dont think there were enough diamonds in the 256x256 block island, at least when i played back then, i could barely find gold and diamonds, my goal was usually build my house and craft a diamond sword, then i would consider this world finished and move to the next

>>723056042 (OP)
>>723056226
>>723056238
>>723059908
I always just get the wooden pickaxe, mine some cobblestone and get the stone tools immediately and then burn the wooden pickaxe.
Wooden tools except for the pickaxe are obsolete slop and no one needs them.

We didn't need more early game shit, we needed a tier between Iron and Diamond.
And where's my netherite horse armor, you fuckers gave the Nautilus netherite shell armor but not the horse?

>>723060228
soulless...

>>723060290
We do not sign our posts here, you sloptroon.

>>723056423
Beta 1.2

>>723056042 (OP)
Minecraft does progression without any thoughts on realism.
>DURR OBVIOUSLY YOU START WITH WOOD!
>But a wooden pickaxe wouldn't even work...A wooden sword is basically a club and that makes sense. I guess even with effort you could eventually get through a tree with a wooden axe. But how the fuck are you going to smash stone with wood?
>DURRRR WOOD!
Reject Minecraft, embrace Dwarf Fortress where material values actually matter.

>>723060508
>muh realism

>>723060563
Realism is great when it enhances gameplay, it sucks dick when it detracts from gameplay.
Adding 'gamey' mechanics like wooden items you will never actually use, is shit AND the opposite of realism.
I mean for fuck's sake 95% of your playtime will be exclusively with iron items. That's shit-tier game design.
All they had to do was add refining, bunch of different metals, etc. Bam you could justify using a bunch of different items.

>>723060228
>obsolete slop
Kill yourself twitter retard

>>723060508
Some wooden tools like weapons, hoes and pitchforks work, but for axes or pickaxes, you would have to use either bone or stone (stones found on the ground, not mined).

VS satisfies the minecraft urge, but it still feels like it's missing something

And here comes the retards squad crying that the problem isn't that the tools that exist aren't useless enough.

>>723061005
>but it still feels like it's missing something
Bludgeoning weapons that are not shit.
Missing them does not ruin the game but heavily sour the experience.

>>723060954
And the game would be far better if that were the case.

>like basing on mountain peaks
>mojang adds in the deep dark
>now have to go defuse a shitload of sculk sensors/shriekers before i can go caving

>wood is obsoleted almost immediately
>gold is fucking worthless
>copper is meant to be the new tier in between
stone and iron but its worthless because getting iron isn't even hard
>
So basically this game about mining and crafting, after all these years, still only has three (3) actually worthwhile tiers of equipment. Four if you really want to include Copper, which they just added tools for.
>emerald randomly exists...as a fucking currency for the trading system you'll never use. Also apparently villagers just happen to have shitloads of it despite it supposedly being really rare
>amethyst randomly exists, does fuckall
>no other precious stones, no other ores.
>instead here's 3 different versions of the same reskinned block that do ABSOLUTELY FUCK ALL and only clutter your inventory
You don't hate the current minecraft devs enough. Imagine where this game could've been with Notch still at the helm. It's been how many years since the microsoft deal and you still see the same 4 hostile mobs out at night, but here's a turtle it took us 6 months to code...

>>723061005
It needs world generation akin to minecraft beta's worldgen.

>>723061425
>gold is fucking worthless
I never understood this. Why isn't gold the strongest and most powerful?

>>723062474
It wouldn't even have to be the "strongest and most powerful" just its niche of ripping stone a new asshole at lightning speed would make it worth using.

>>723061425
what minecraft needs is to rework how each material is obtained.
they should take some notes from VS without going full autism, like metallic tools requiring a tinkers smeltery and the different tears requiring a stronger furnace or materials for molds and whatever else.
the problem is its too easy to just skip to iron and then diamonds.

>>723062692
>they should take some notes from VS
NO THEY GODDAMN SHOULDN'T.

Gold should honestly be the currency you trade with villagers with desu

>>723062474
Because gold is a soft metal?

>>723057594
minecraft is an easy game
it shouldn't be made even easier

>>723062915
>He never interacted with gold in his life.
Gold is the toughest and heaviest metal in the universe that can punch trough solid steel with ease.
The only reason why gold wasn't used for weapons and armor is that it was too rare, expensive and heavy. If gold was as common as iron, every heavy duty tool or weapon owould have been made from it.

i tried terrariacraft yesterday
this shit has potential, i shat myself when i saw eaters of souls surrounding me when i entered corruption but the game sadly only has content up to queen bee
that has shown me how interesting minecraft could actually be if it was trying to be more besides a pixelart simulator

>>723063312
>gold atoms slide past each other relatively easily, which makes the metal soft and malleable.
>Gold is so soft, in fact, that one gram of it can be beaten into a sheet covering nearly a square metre. Such sheets are used in the process of 'gilding'.

>>723063312
My nigger in christ, Gold can be molded by hand at room temperature.

>>723056042 (OP)
->wooden pickaxe ->mine 3 stone ->stone pickaxe ->all stone tools (minus hoe) in the first 20 seconds of creating a new world
you are genuinely retarded if you make ANY wood tool other than a pickaxe that you use precisely 3 times. even crafting a wooden shovel wastes you time and adds to your inventory bloat because you were too much of a shitter to know better.

>>723056423
I wanna say it was Beta 1.7.3. but really beds were a terrible edition and the Nether is stupid as well. So in a way Alpha 1.1.2_01 is the last 'pure' version but that one is just a little too basic.

>>723061005
Better vanilla world gen and improved combat.

>>723063312
>Gold is the toughest and heaviest metal in the universe
ai post

>>723063312
Please be bait...

>>723063687
>the Nether is stupid as well
you weren't there at the time and that's why you write this. genuine newfaggot yearning for some masturbatorily perfect game he never played

>>723056042 (OP)
lets compare it to stardew valley
you're forced to use your entry level shitter tools until you work for better materials
in minecraft, you can go from tier 1 to tier 3 or even 4 if you're in a village, with basically no work needed
but, it would be weird if the game just didn't allow you to craft a wooden axe or hoe.

>>723056042 (OP)
Flint -> Copper -> Iron is the superior design

>>723063830
no the nether was always stupid, its original iteration is 'stupid little empty deathworld' and its current iteration is 'stupid big empty world'

>>723056423
Beta 1.7.3
>Best world gen, chaotic and at a good scale
>No hunger, food instead used for healing. Variety in food served little purpose, could have been improved but wasn't.
>Limited food stacking, most food didn't stack making inventory management slightly more relevant.
>No sprinting, making escaping enemies not a trivial task.
>Comfy colors and lighting.
It wasn't the best it could've been, and it was still a very flawed game, but the game design was a lot tighter back then.

>>723063830
I literally was but whatever. I started playing Minecraft in 2010

>>723060667
>realism is good when it makes the game good and bad when it makes the game bad
good analysis

>>723056423
Beta 1.7.3 is the rawest form of Minecraft there is while not being extremely dated and lacking in content. I would say there are three peaks to the game.
Beta 1.7.3 before hunger was added
1.7.10 before the diorite andesite slop was added and the game felt even more modded with shit like Elder Guardians and the Elytra
1.18 after additions like revamped Nether and revamped Caves as well as useful villagers but before the game just started adding Bedrock marketplace tier slop like the Creaking and rideable ghasts

>>723063506
>>723063802
>>723063828
>>723063575
>Poorfags who have never touched gold in their lives.

>>723063830
>>723064575 (me)
Also it's not like I hate the Nether in principle I just don't like that it strays from the generic theme that Minecraft had beforehand and it should've been a layer under the main map rather than a seperate dimension, maybe with a layer of obsidian blocking it from easy access. The caving rework's addition of that underlayer is a good one, it'd be cool to see the Nether as a region below even that. Ghasts should be smaller 2 block tall ghosts rather than the weird big ugly boxes they are.

>>723065175
you have to be american to think that only rich people can touch gold. my parents have a shit ton of gold jewelry and boxes. gold is malleable as fuck. go watch gold artisan videos, they barely press on it and it folds like butter.
>>723065223
the rideable ghasts are so stupid

>>723065175
Gold in common use in jewelry and circuitry and things like that is an alloy with sturdier metals mixed in to make it less malleable. Pure, processed gold is soft as fuck for a metal, its one advantage is that it basically never corrodes under most conditions it's exposed to.

>>723065175
>gold is expensive
hello turdworlder

>>723056360
I recall them being good for enchanting, but I could be remembering a mod

>>723065283
>>723065303
>>723065347
Well if you ever touchedgold, you should know that it is hard enough that a gold nail can punch a hole trough a heavy steel sheet.

>>723065601
Yeah, because the fucking nail has harder metals mixed in giving it that strength retard-kun

>>723056423
infdev

I can't play minecraft after vintage story, I always liked cave man autism
wish vintage story was more like unreal world

I'm not defending him, but how do you justify diamond tools and armor being the best when diamonds easily break if you hit them the right way?
A diamond sword would shatter on impact, a gold sword would bend at most.

>>723065840
Notch looked up "hardest material", saw diamond, and coded it in that way. He's your average /v/ shitposter, he doesn't have a degree in material science and it doesn't really matter in gameplay terms anyway. It's just a fun valuable material to make shit out of.

>Hytale actually will come out
What a bizarre development cycle

>>723066031
Wait what?
I thought that shit was canned after bad managment and feature creep.

>>723065601
>trough
>>723063312
>trough

>>723056042 (OP)
i hunt chests asap for iron gear get bucket lava and water to make portal boat enderman for pearls and get ros quickly find the end portal kill dragon and get eleytra first week then focus on building my farms/automation

>>723066069
The old boss of Hypixel who sold it to Riot paid out the ass to get it back after getting pissed at the cancellation. Wants to actually release a game.
He hasnt outright confirmed the acquisition yet but he's not exactly being subtle

>>723056042 (OP)
You never had to unwax great quantities of copper, or make large quantities of debarked logs, I presume?
>>723056302
Oh no, super-enchanted items I can find as loot before I have diamonds or an enchanting table of my own ohn how terrible

A few days ago I learned you can use wooden tools as fuel for furnaces

>>723066283
>The old boss of Hypixel who sold it to Riot paid out the ass to get it back after getting pissed at the cancellation
I don't blame him, from everything I've read it seems like they had what was basically a finished game but kept adding needless feature creep and pointlessly remaking systems.
Sometimes you need a producer to step in and say 'no, this is enough, we don't have time/resources to do this shit'. And its clear they didn't have that pushback

>>723056302
diamond grade with the durability of wood

>>723066283
I'll believe it when it's in my hands playing it. They can pass the buck all they want but the fact remains that they wasted like six years remaking the game from scratch for no reason. I knew that "we want to release on all platforms simultaneously" was a fucking death knell the moment I heard it.

I started playing again for the first time since 2011 wht the fuck are golems for i thought hed pickup all the eggs in my chicken area and put them in his chest but he dont.

Also i gather im suppose to fuck off and actually adventure due to how much ive seen pop up as loot in shipwrecks when ive googled how to make a compass or paper or something
>forgot bamboo and sugarcane are two different plants

>>723066476
They exist for you to kill and get some iron.

>>723066570
No, copper golems specifically. I might be retarded and cant see the value in something that takes an item put of a chest and puts it in another chest ojtside of autistic automation

>>723064841
It is a good analysis and retarded game-devs still manage to fuck up such a simple premise.
>NOOOOOOOOO WE CAN'T DO THIS IT IS REALISTIC EVEN IF IT WOULD IMPROVE THE GAME!
>NOOOOOOOOO WE HAVE TO ADD NEEDLESS REALISIM EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD WORSEN THE GAME!

>>723056302
golden hoe is a status symbol

>>723056423
went downhill after 1.9 (same update that made axes did more damage and swords)

They should add ent enchantments to make wood have a purpose after the first 2 minutes of the game. Mojang just doesn't have any imagination.

>>723067096
Mojang is run by retards who prioritize updates on a shitty version of their game because they can monetize it more

Good that they added copper tools finally but I miss the times when people would actually use stone tools for lengthy periods of time because iron was once actually somewhat rare. But the game is completely fucked now anyways so what does it even matter? I only play BTA nowadays.

>>723056042 (OP)
what's the logical alternative? fists being able to mine stone? fists doing the damage of a sword?

>>723056042 (OP)
I don't think I ever bothered making a wooden axe in vanilla minecraft, and only ever bothered if using a mod that lets me fell trees from the bottom stump cause I hate chopping them from the top down.
I also use all my tools until they break, and typically carry a stone, iron and diamond pickaxe when I mine and use them appropriately.

>>723056042 (OP)
I find it quite useful for cadastral transactions

>>723067096
>enchanted wood tools can regenerate durability
fug i would actually consider using wooden hoes

At the current rate I'm finding Diamonds, I might have a Diamond Pickaxe by Christmas. Jesus, my luck is bad.

>>723065965
They're also rare, the most valuable and have a unique looking color. It's really not all that deep.

>>723068332
Getting diamonds is rough in recent versions. Hope you enjoy looking at cave moss and being disappointed.

Has anyone noticed that almost nobody is using texture packs anymore? Faithful 34x34 used to be rather common in videos and the like. I guess the block selection being so large nullifies the need for it.
I remember an official texture pack on the 360 edition of the game that changed one of the 1x2 paintings to being a medieval banner with bricks behind it.

>>723056423
Before the nether update
>ywn post in a notch thread again
feels bad

>>723068486
I'm seriously concerned I'll run out of Coal just on Torches alone.

>>723068332
>>723068486
lolwut
Getting diamonds has never been easier. Whether it's getting a bunch from shipwrecks/buried treasure, village chest or just going down into the gigantic deepslate level caves where their color pops much harder against the backround.
Fucking stripmining on an appropriate Y level used to be the fastest way, what's wrong with you?

>haven't played since Beta
>dig straight into a Trial Chamber
>go Google a trial chamber afterward
Wew lad

>>723056498
>waste diamonds on anything and not just buying diamond stuff via villagers

>>723068540
Modded is a big reason. Can't use texture packs when mods are based on vanilla textures. However, resource packs have gotten very popular. Examples include Fresh Animations, Visual Effects+, Vanilla Tweaks, etc.

What do I do with a Beacon?
What's its purpose?

>>723066450
I'm in the same boat.
I got real tired of hearing about lighting and shit.
I want a game.

>>723056042 (OP)
It's a sandbox game. It's optional. Just don't use it.

>>723066776
wood tools are good design though. the crafting table recipe confirms to players that wood is useful for making shit immediately. sticks are afterward discovered with basic experimentation. the recipes of each convey the vaguely representational relationship of crafting inputs and outputs. wood is the sole material available to the player at that point that has some obvious crafting utilization, and sticks are entirely without purpose but are made of the material you've crafted with so far and are immediately available. crafting obe wooden tool almost certainly leads to trying recipe alterations and finding the rest of the tool recipes, introducing the player to every important craftable tool. trying to mine stone afterwards and crafting tools with that teaches what could be considered the core loop of finding better materials to make better tools so you can break harder blocks and do things more efficiently. minecraft is a game that conveys almost nothing well and the wooden tools are the one semi-exception. the disposability of wooden tools is innate to their design purpose

The wooden axe is used on some servers to create protected areas where other players can't break blocks. I used it to create indestructible swastikas in front of some dude's house