Thread 723129769

/v/:
>"heh, games these days are too dumbed down for the modern audience. we only play HARDCORE games"
also /v/ when someone asks them to play fighting games, arena shooters, RTS, shmups, rythmn games and milsims(games that take a little bit of practise to get into):
>"muh heccin' artificial difficulty for autists! i ain't playing that shit"
why is this?

i didn't say that, you are in trouble for lying. Apologize to me right now

sometimes i even think the are other people on /v/ than me, you and todd

which nigga bought the feelsweird sakura cel?

>>723129852
i wonder how expensive the meme cels are, when did they start selling them anyways, 00's?

>>723130215
didn't you get your letterboxd account doxxed lmao

>>723129769 (OP)
Fighting games, RTS, and shmups don't take a little bit of practice to get into you fucking faggot, they take a lot.

>>723130315
I don't even know what that is.

>>723130395
you're a far-left canadian

>>723130504
he's that shitty looking mutt game dev with the green lizard

>>723130361
>fighting games
>needing a lot of practise

>>723130215
sup, newfaggot
kys

>>723130504
>>723130540
wat r y'all talking about

>>723129769 (OP)
/v/ is full of people who are too lazy to practice and/or of the belief that being good at games shouldn't require practice.

>>723130654
Good question.

f*goon go to bed it's past midnight

>>723129769 (OP)
>fighting games
im not south american
>arena shooters
now this is good shit
>rts
boring
>shmups
king
>"rythmn" games
you retard
but also hit or miss depending on the style
>milsims
just another flavor of autist simulation like farming or forklift simulator, ARMA isn't anything special

>>723130540
i don't remember much but he's a retard who got banned from the gamedev trannyjerk thread for being an annoying faggot on /vg/ so he keeps using a ban evading website full of literal pedophiles while hating pedos and anime
he's also canadian, and a LGBT libtard who gives high reviews to communist movies on letterboxd

>>723129769 (OP)
I play hollowlestelikes do I fit in?

>>723129769 (OP)
This scenario only exists in your head.

>>723131425
>i don't remember much but [literal feces expressed as a written statement]

>>723129769 (OP)
You can suck at everything you listed but still be able to play but you can't play fighting games at all without 10k hours of practice minimum
inb4
>Le lower ranks
just lesser autists that aren't as good as the turbo autists

>>723132338
just look up alice(filename) on /vg/ archives lmao

>>723130541
ok potemkin is literally the perfect character this doesn't count

>>723132913
Schizo theories are fun. Now let me try one on you: you are a pedophile freak in Eastern Europe who is not allowed near children and playgrounds. Because you are unable to rape children, you let out your frustrations on the internet so you can feel a little better about how your life spiraled so out of control that you have to live with your single mother.

>>723130361
What do people mean by this? Learning is the fun part of a video game. That's the entire game part.

>>723133084
not fooling anyone alicenigger

>>723133486
you can learn rtses and shmups but you can't naturally learn fighting games by playing them. fighting games are quintessential wiki games that you have to spend hours in training mode in for a grand total of potentially a fraction amount of fun for the amount of work put in.

>>723133750
>ACK
https://youtu.be/ERj36v4iNmY

>>723133496
Neither are you, child rapist.

>>723133808
do i really need to post screnshots of you posting on cucker?

>>723132314
>>723131907
what a goddamn brat

>>723130315
>>723130395
>>723130654
>>723129769 (OP)
why this attention newnigger posting frog sakura t. Erica

>>723133798
>posts a game that fgc fags can barely stand

>>723133798
>>723134105
also this is this video is specifically low level gameplay, it's basically a video so that fgc fags can point at plebs that dare think they're allowed to play fighting games

>>723129769 (OP)
this is just a tribute

RTS games are so fun bros... I hated the idea of playing 1v1s for so long until I actually tried it. I was instantly hooked.

>>723134251
what game(s) do you play?

>>723133750
>you can learn rtses and shmups but you can't naturally learn fighting games by playing them
You can't learn any actually good shmups by just playing them. You have to route and practice them.
>you have to spend hours in training mode
Doing what? What do you think people do in training mode? Why do beginners always gravitate to some retarded anime game where its half screen normals into looping setplay, just play street fighter or samsho or something, holy shit

>>723134336
>You can't learn any actually good shmups by just playing them. You have to route and practice them.
either bait or retardation
>Doing what? What do you think people do in training mode? Why do beginners always gravitate to some retarded anime game where its half screen normals into looping setplay, just play street fighter or samsho or something, holy shit
So training mode counts as playing the game but playing a shmup and routing it doesn't count? Also fgc fags hate all the popular shit so why should i play them?

>>723134070
>why this attention newnigger posting frog sakura t. Erica
Hey Genius.

>>723133879
What were you doing on a pedophile forum, hm?

>>723132314
>>723131907
Okay, I'm getting the belt.

>>723134302
I know I said games but I only played CoH3...
I played TFT a long time ago to host custom maps but I didn't try the actual multiplayer maps

>>723134645
>So training mode counts as playing the game but playing a shmup and routing it doesn't count
Both of these are learning, which is all part of *playing* the game. If training mode isn't playing the game, then why would routing be playing the game? You simply have a disdain for obstacles.
>Also fgc fags hate all the popular shit so why should i play them?
Everyone in the "fgc" plays street fighter whether they like it or not and anyone who doesn't is shit.

>>723135038
>Both of these are learning, which is all part of *playing* the game. If training mode isn't playing the game, then why would routing be playing the game? You simply have a disdain for obstacles.
you have it backwards moron, i have a disdain of doing boring repetition. in training you're just practicing combos for 10k hours in the hopes you get 5 minutes of fun while in shmups you're playing the game and learning where to move as you do so. I'm not even a shmups player but i know it's far less retarded than fighting games.
>Everyone in the "fgc" plays street fighter whether they like it or not
The whole community is forced to play dogshit that they don't even like. That's all the proof for me to know that this genre is dogshit

>>723134787
>instantly recognises what i'm talking about
kek

>>723129804
I'm sorry that you're such a loser lmao

>>723132913
>What Is a Woman?

>>723135249
>in training you're just practicing combos for 10k hours
Uh no, you don't have do that in any modern fighting game. That's not what training mode is for. I have no idea where people get this perception. The execution in modern fighting games is very, very low.

>>723132913
Holy faglord.

When I saw this thread I was worried to Christ that OP was going to cum on an original Sakura animation cel as a funny troll.
I am lost

>>723129769 (OP)
Shmups and rhythm games are inferior versions of soulslikes. Memorizing patterns and brainlessly pressing your buttons in 3-1 dimensions isn't as skillful as you'd like to believe.

>>723135038
>You simply have a disdain for obstacles.
this is what /v/ is about nowadays. a bunch of posers is getting very loud and obnoxious as of late.

>>723135249
>in training you're just practicing combos for 10k hours
it will forever be funny to me that shitters still think practicing combos for 10k hours will magically make you not get shit on anymore

>>723135335
I said it because I knew you were a pedo.
You're not as much of a genius as I expected.

>>723135586
This so much please someone agree with me.

>>723135579
When you think about it soulslikes are more 3-1 dimensional than you'd like to believe.

>>723129769 (OP)
Post your hours in Grand Strategy games if you want to larp as an epic hardcore gamer.

>>723135464
>That's not what training mode is for.
there's no way it's not for practicing combos and memorizing frame data
>>723135601
>stupid pleb i actually spent 1000k hours practicing in training mode to get my silver rank!!!!!!!!!

>>723136232
practicing combos is a waste of time 98% of the time

>>723135780
Grand Strategy games aren't hard compared to the genres he listed.

>>723129769 (OP)
i played fighting games and the genre is retarded. you literally have to sit in practice to "git gud" whereas with other games you can literally have fun and play to "git gud"

the reason why smash bros is incredibly popular is because you can literally learn the game as you play whereas in fighting games things like combos, blockstrings, and setups all require sitting in practice and for hours learning shit

>>723136356
the only way to get better at fighting games is fighting real people not a dummy

>>723136356
>the reason why smash bros is incredibly popular is because you can literally learn the game as you play
Uh no that is definitely not the case

>>723136279
it's literally the genre where you try and get as much damage as possible when you stun the enemy

>>723129769 (OP)
I can't play fighting games. I'm not black.

>>723136680
and how do you suppose you get that initial hit

>>723135514
Haha, could you imagine…

>>723133486
You don't look like this no matter what your Twitter bio says

>>723136393
>>723136867
you have to learn neutral after grinding training mode or else the opponent will essentially be able to mess up 30-50 times before they lose while you have 2-3 times to mess up before you lose.

>>723136232
>there's no way it's not for practicing combos and memorizing frame data
This all depends on the game and your skill level. Like even basic movement needs to be practiced in mvc2, but in other games you're practicing things like confirms, whiff punishes, defense, etc. Like not to be rude but just your basic kit of like combos and oki takes like no time whatsoever to learn in a modern fighting game.
https://youtu.be/q0W7cMe0gwM

>>723136281
Lmao. Post your hours scrublord.

>>723137702
>hour long video over a simple mechanic

>>723137779
Here you go. Not OP btw.

>>723129769 (OP)
i like rhythm games
i dont like rts because they're kbm shit and also dead

>>723137779
>>723139240
And here's my latest playthrough as Russia. I'm about to get economic hegemony soon. I started as Novgorod and got Frozen Assets in 1500.

But I do play AFPS :}

>if you're not playing these specific genres then you're a hypocrit
????

>>723139240
See now that actually is impressive.

>>723131907
>>723132314
Okay, Im getting my condoms
Captcha: daadd

>>723139324
you know that was ironic and paradox games are literally just cookie clicker with more menus right

>>723135249
>>723135464
>>723135601
>>723136279
nta but i can see why beginners have this misconception, because i only started playing fighting games like a year and a half ago
when i was a beginner i really struggled with combos and took hours for me to learn each one, it's only after i got to a certain level and was familiar with the mechanics that combos became easy. for someone with experience in FGC combos will take like 15 minutes to learn for each character(excluding the weird autist stuff) but that's not the same for noobs

I get the feeling that high-fidelity combat flight sims have one of the highest skill ceilings, despite their relative lack of demand on your dexterity compared to games in other genres, and despite how simple they present themselves.
I say this as someone who doesn't play them.

is this the video games thread where we discuss video games and their gameplay?

>>723139392
im a noob(50 hours) desperate for duels and would play you but i'm in a bus rn and wont be back home for hours

bump

>>723141253
drooling retard.

>>723143087
don't @ me japanese schoolgirl

live

>>723129769 (OP)
>120% of /v/ is the lowest performing barely classifiable as human gamers
this is a board where people put on cheat engine to play fotm slop to complain about it because they keep seeing it on their social media timelines and have to keep up with whatever is in vogue. They don't even like videogames they're just too poor and buck broken to find something they actually do enjoy.

I'm really having a lot of fun in silksong and getting my ass beat by omega savage. I am reticently looking forward to Friday where I may flip a coin and get the new pokemon game. I really liked arceus but this one does not look to be near the quality of legends arceus. Also to keep on topic with your op I am platinum in SF6 but an absolute shitter who cannot understand frame data to get better. I want to learn some more characters but the sheer volume of information in learning matchups requires more time than I have to play it. I should change jobs.

>>723131907
>>723132314
Little scoundrel!!!

>>723129769 (OP)
I can reduce /v/ even further
>stop playing your games and start playing my games

>>723146110
>who cannot understand frame data to get better.
if your +3 your move comes out 3 frames faster. if your move has a startup frame of 7 frames it will probably win against a 14 frame normal. nothing complicated

>>723146340
oh no I understand the premise it's the practical application that eludes me. Maybe I'm old or not reacting fast enough. I play regularly with very good players to try and learn matchups. I block or parry their entire true combo string but cannot for the life of me catch the punish or opening. I don't know what the fuck is going on. It'd be great to be able to grind out matches with someone sitting on a couch and asking questions
>so why wasn't I able to punish that
>can you spam that so I can see what the spacing is to either avoid or punish it
online lobbies sometimes someone is cool but most of the time
>lol scrub lmao
yeah I know that's why I'm trying to learn how to adapt. Most of /v/ is adhd zoomers their hobby isn't videogames it's being on the internet.

>>723129769 (OP)
oh boy another shitty thread where you mash together opinions from both sides into one homosexual chimera so you can feel less retarded by comparison

>>723146868
zoomerGOD here
experiment by mashing and figuring out which part of the blockstring is punishable or just ask the mains(much quicker) most of them will just tell you which move is minus and how it works

>>723129769 (OP)
>fighting games, arena shooters, RTS, shmups, [FUCK NO] and milsims
I play all of these though.
There's still a few of this site's actual core userbase around, no matter how shit it gets.

>>723147439
That is literally me, yes. Is there a problem?

>>723133486
There are fundamentally two types of people that are play a lot of videogames
>People for whom games are their primary form of media to consume
>People for whom games are their hobby
The sooner you understand this the better. There is no getting the former retards to understand the enjoyment that comes from actually mechanically engaging with a videogame. It's just not possible, because they do not care about the game, they care about having an enjoyable distraction.

>>723146868
10,000 hours. It takes ~10,000 hours to master any given skill.

>>723147549
it took me like 300 hours to get to masters in gbvsr

>>723147651
You're not starting from complete scratch with each new game, skills carry over.

>>723133750
>fighting games are quintessential wiki games that you have to spend hours in training mode
People who don't play fighting games do not understand how little they will be able to learn in training mode if they haven't already spent a LOT of time actually playing the game. Grinding stuff in training mode is mostly only useful when you already have 10k hours of fundamentals from actually playing fighters and you just need to learn the technical details of a new game or character. If you don't have a lot of time smashing buttons against human beings then training mode is not going to do much to help you

>>723146868
>it's the practical application that eludes me
Because that's the hard part, learning to play against a human not learning the numbers. People at Plat in SF6 do not need to be pouring over frame data, you need to be fighting against human beings and only using training mode if you have a specific question like "what do I do against character tool X?"

Get some basic BnBs so you can convert from easy openings, learn the most basic character matchup info like which yeets are punishable and then SPAM ranked games and only use training mode to answer questions you have about ranked games. You should be thinking about what you're losing to and coming up with questions to answer.

>>723132314
Why'd she do it, vros?

>>723147698
was my first fighting game

>>723129769 (OP)
>anons say that games don't require any thinking anymore
>well why won't they play shit that requires tons of reflexes and memorization? I'm so smart!

>>723135464
This is correct. I'm pretty sure i have a mountain of hours just honing GG Xrd Faust defensive options and against (Matchup X) and even with the more combo heavy characters, i was more focused on labbing out the matchup kinks. It's quite literally the most braindead take to assume that people head into the lab just for combo practice. It might be useful for specific characters or occasional adjustments of combo pathing for character weight, but i never spent more than checking the b&b and more conventional combos instead of attempting to lab out some lvl 3 Jam combo (which you might see once every 100 matches, if you get a good chance.)

>>723133486
Normal people do not fucking enjoy labbing out combos or practicing build orders until they can play the game, retard, they enjoy learning the game on the fly.

>>723148097
>Get some basic BnBs
Right there, right there, that's the problem and why you don't understand.

>>723149009
You can get to the fundamentals real quick and without much pain. What you're attempting to do is a shortcut for longer term mastery. I'd say most people should atleast put around 150-200 hours in most games just getting used to how things work, develop instinctual framework on what they know can work for them and then use the aides, tools and guides to hammer out bad habits. It's how most people learn, you'll never be some amazing prodigy without placing some skin into the game and that is how most people get into PvP oriented gameplay. It still doesn't mean it isn't similar to PvE games like Shmups, Character action and plenty of other genres.

>>723149178
>I'd say most people should atleast put around 150-200 hours in most games just getting used to how things work
And you're a complete retard for saying that.

>>723133486
No, execution is the fun part of a video game.

>>723149147
No anon, nobody is asking you to optimise anything, your basic BnBs are button>special and modern FG design does not ask anything of you execution wise

>>723149389
>And you're a complete retard for saying that.
How? Obviously the amount of hours varies from game to game, but if you're seriously expecting you'll master or become competent at specific game mechanics in less than a month, you're just seriously attempting to take the easy way out. Nobody is obviously saying that such dedication is needed, just that if you're planning on improving you'll need to put in time.

>>723149178
grinding to git gud is retarded, learning and experimenting is the most fun part of a game, like in fighting games the low level matches were ridiculously fun

>>723149597
>Grinding
You're seriously missing the point. It's just complete casual play for all the hours and after that you can consider whether you want to improve or not. Nobody is putting you on a gunpoint when it comes to that. It's just that improvement itself does take time to accomplish and mostly is very linear with you learning new things on top of the things you already know. There is nothing "grindy" about that.

>press button in situation
>if it works keep pressing button
>if it doesn't work stop pressing button
fighting games area the easiest thing to learn

>>723149702
I learned more and in a shorter time about Skullgirls by labbing than I ever did through actual play against other people. It was extremely grindy.

>>723149754
They'll most likely only learn when they're up against something that won't give them the chance to just randomly throw out buttons. It's why people tilt so much on most anime fighters, as "taking your turn" is a much larger sum of parts than just hoping your opponent goes on minus and you can slip in a fast button. It's also why i think UNIEL, Xrd and most of the more technically demanding games have such a high entry barrier. It isn't necessarily a knowledge check, but it is a very steep check on understanding what your opponent has access to.

>>723149976
press buttons

>>723149702
The problem is that in fighting games and in 99% of RTS casual play doesn't have a clear path forward to intermediate play without practicing the shit out of execution and learning concepts that casual play didn't even begin to hint at. Casual play doesn't teach you the real fundamentals of those games at all.

>>723149702
why should you get good in the first place? getting good is the natural result of enjoying and playing games a lot

>>723149178
>most people should atleast put around 150-200 hours in most games just getting used to how things work

No offense but that's just fucking dumb. No one who isn't hardcore serious about a particular game is ever gonna do that. Even just finishing a ten hour game is an amount of dedication that eludes the majority of video game players.

>>723150261
as opposed to fps games, which teach you about angles, chokes, flanks, movement etc. in game

>>723150261
>Casual play doesn't teach you the real fundamentals of those games at all.
Huh? What it doesn't do is prime solely for MP oriented advanced concepts, which is something you can't expect the game to do in the first place. All it can provide is basic tools for that. Understanding the very core like micro, macro, resources, unit strengths/weaknesses and compositions are all instinctual in the sense that across all levels of play, those things remain constant. They're the fundamentals. Intermediate concepts like timing pushes, build orders and other facets governed in those concepts are the things that you can very well insert into anyone's gameplay over time as long as the fundamentals aren't completely fucked. It's very telling that most of the people in something like Starcraft and its sequel see more improvement from just fleshing out macro instead of getting all fancy with advanced concepts.

>>723150537
No, you still don't get it. Timing and build orders aren't intermediate concepts, they're the absolute ground floor to be able to play the game in multiplayer. If you don't learn them, you are going to get shit on, over and over and over, until you look them up, because someone who practiced them is going to beat you every time.

>>723150726
>Timing and build orders aren't intermediate concepts
Yes, they are. If they weren't you wouldn't see anyone drooling in Wood League or whatever lowest tier of skill grading exists in the game in question.
> If you don't learn them, you are going to get shit on, over and over and over, until you look them up, because someone who practiced them is going to beat you every time.
The build orders largely prime for the other parts of the match, from there your overall gameplay will largely dictate the rest of the match. I think WinterStarcraft put it the best in terms of mechanical intermediate problems and that is that people obsess over mechanically advanced concepts and then you've got Silver and Gold Terrans doing TvP with harass openings and losing their Hellions to probes or other sorts of silly mistakes. A large pool of advanced concepts won't give you shit, if the entirety of your baseline skillset is rotten.

>>723151069
No, they're not intermediate. Wood is what happens when the fundamentals of the game aren't taught naturally to players. Build orders and timings are barely even a step above novice, they're too fundamental to the game: there's a reason any guide worth a damn tells you to practice macro heavy build orders as the very first fucking thing you do after learning controls.

That's not the natural inclination of a player coming fresh off the campaign and getting their shit kicked in by a smurfing Korean zerg rushing them.

>>723129769 (OP)
>Fighting games, Arena shooters, RTS, Milsims
Too much time investment, I only have time for one of these. I would have to stop playing my main game that I am currently top 5% at to play one of these other genres.
>Shmups, rhythm games
Not real games

>>723151424
>any guide worth a damn tells you to practice macro heavy build orders
No, any guide worth a damn tells you to focus on the macro as a cornerstone for all the building blocks. Get a long-term lead in economy and unit production, not obsessing over the first five minutes of the game. Build orders lay a foundation for such intermediate options. They also mean jack shit in the case where you have to handle a cannon rush, six pool or other shenanigans that will almost invariably throw off your timing to pivot to specific options to counter such things. Good scouting gives a better indication and is a much more natural skill to develop over autistically thinking that a build order chart followed to the fractions of a second will save you from the mistakes when you've already in the progress of making them.

I have autism and I'm terrible at games so I'm happy that games are more accessible.

>>723151069
i remember watching a video where an brood war youtuber to show knowing how to set up factories as efficiently as possible is the most important skill in the game, did nothing but make 200 goliaths and destroyed the opponent

>>723129769 (OP)
>shmups
MORK can clear dodonpachi
this genre is not that hard
>arena shooters
dead genre
we have less than 1000 players if we combine every game
rapha tried to play overwatch and he accused everyone of being a cheater
>fighting games
glorified guessing games
>RTS
i hate fog of war

>>723152000
And how do you get to that point? With a practiced build order and timings. Literally the first fucking beginner's guide I found said what I did: once you're actually interested in multiplayer and know the units and what they do, focus on macro build orders before anything else because you learn the game better that way.

>>723152752
In rapha's defense there is a fucking enormous amount of cheating in FPS nowadays.

>>723152184
Plenty of cases where tons of higher level players also have to adapt on the fly and it looks really crazy depending on the player. The same principles obviously apply at lower levels too, but usually the difference is that it's even more chaotic. Some lower level replays have some genuinely enjoyable and fun stuff going on.

>>723152804
excuses

>>723130017
Any cels of Sakura are 500 USD minimum. Full head and full body go even higher

>>723146110
Unfortunately, you are mazed by multiplayer GaaS skinner boxes. Cheating is just modifying the software on YOUR COMPUTER which is a human right. Hell, maybe you should start cheating and you might learn a bit about hex editing and assembly and how a computer works, which would be way more worthwhile than your plat 2 ranking in SF

>>723152760
>With a practiced build order and timings.
No. You already know how the building blocks, units and economy works. Even if you practice timings and build orders, all you're doing is giving yourself a slight headstart in the cases where you're playing against an opponent at similar skill level. Even then, no amount of religious build order practice will make sure you'll transition into a stronger mid-to-late game, because usually for most complete beginners the game is already over before reaching that point and it's got very little to do with build orders alone and more to do with being unprepared for any kind of transitioning. To put it simply, most of the complete beginners replays might have some schmuck who has peerless build order and an attempt to do some fancy timing push. Only to realize he never scouted, never caught wind of what the opponent is doing and now you might have banshees sniping drones or other extremely rudimentary mistake that costs you the match.

>>723153237
Practicing build orders isn't a slight head start in a game that is more execution than strategy.

>>723152804
>muh cheaters is why i suck o algo
https://youtu.be/ZwMKQGC33tM

>>723153374
>a game that is more execution than strategy.
Hardstuck Silver or Gold Terran? I hear this same talking point 90% of the time when the tilt grows ridiculously strong.

>>723153636
It's a true talking point. Always has been. A halfassed strategy done much faster beats a better one done slower. That's how Starcraft works.

>>723129852
It was some lucky /a/non

>>723131907
>>723132314

>>723155048
sauce?

>>723131907
Why was the kid on the right still happy?

>>723154406
lucky

>>723129769 (OP)
>here is an exclusively competitive genre with a playerbase consisting of no newbs, no mid level players, and only 2000 high level players that have been autistically training for thirty years and playing nothing else
>you as a thirty something with failing reflexes should join the genre as a newb so we can curb-stomp you forever. you will never catch up because you haven't been playing the genre since you could hold a controller.
>nobody who plays these games cares about the story, we only care about curbstomping each other and endlessly practicing. The exclusive draw for anybody trying to get in is the constant feeling of anger at losing every match.
Obviously this doesn't apply to rhythm games and milsims but rhythm games are basically dead anyways and milsims are just boring.

>>723141626
I'm EU but I had okay connection to the east coast. I'm not very good, around 700pts.

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198146063620/

I just didnt grow up with a friend group that played fighting games so i never got that base level skill and now I dont really player multiplayer stuff unless my friends can convince me

>>723161889
can you join this thread?
>>>723159426

>>723129769 (OP)
You WOULD know about something big, fat, and hard, Sakurafaggot.

>>723133486
You forgot your estrogen. You changed back into a guy, tranny.

>>723133486
I feel much better to know that even you had to go through the learning process like us mortals, Onimai anon chan ~