Thread 723230397

> REEE IF I CANT CREATE MY FEMALE SELF INSERT ITS NOT AN RPG

Are people serious? Or is it just troons seething?
Actors can easily act a character they didn't write themselves, but gamers see an Rpg character they didn't make in a character creator and suddenly they are incapable of roleplaying?

Why roleplaying as Henry or Geralt makes you guys seethe so much? Because they are male?

If the set protagonist is cool, everything is fine. If i dislike the set protag for whatever reason, its shit. This isnt rocket science.

>Why roleplaying as Henry or Geralt makes you guys seethe so much? Because they are male?
No one does this, fag. Stop spending so much time on Bluesky

>>723230397 (OP)
KCD2 is a RPG where you can make Henry do whatever, amongst everything else they did to that game, they turned it from "play as Henry" to "make Henry be who you want".

>>723230397 (OP)
Henry is bisexual in 2

>>723230397 (OP)
I don't mind an RPG with a set protagonist, as long as the RPG lets me decide what the protagonist will do and who they will be. I still prefer making my own character though.
I can't stand """"RPGs"""" which put me into a predetermined character, with a predetermined character and story which is very largely set in stone, like Exp33.

>>723230397 (OP)
>Or is it just troons seething?
yes

> REEE IF I CANT CREATE MY MALE SELF INSERT ITS NOT AN RPG

Are people serious? Or is it just chuds seething?
Actors can easily act a character they didn't write themselves, but gamers see an Rpg character they didn't make in a character creator and suddenly they are incapable of roleplaying?

Why roleplaying as Billy or Aloy makes you guys seethe so much? Because they are female?

>>723230541
>No one does this, fag. Stop spending so much time on Bluesky

Who are you gaslighting? I've seen people cry about it here and claim those games are not Rpgs because no character creator.

Imagine being so sad you gaslight in 4chan

>>723230851
Who's Billy?

>>723230914
There are people on this board who claim that BG3 didn't sell well and Elden Ring was a flop, don't take /v/ schizos seriously

>>723230914
>taking random shitposting anons as a metric
>ever
Anon...

>>723230397 (OP)
>false assumption and well poisoning the post

>>723230397 (OP)
Pieces of shit who can't enjoy being immersed in a good story that isn't a jumbled mess where the player is just a blank slate avatar "touring" the setting and treating the plot as little more than a series of obligatory tasks with no personal connection or motivation aside from being the chosen one or some other bullshit that exists purely as backstory fluff with almost no bearing on other characters or whats actually happening. Fucking hate wrpgs that are like this
>iss liek muh DnD!
Fuck D&D, fuck tabletop and fuck you, you dull bastards

>fairytale describes princess as beautiful
>they cast an ugly mutt for the live action
>the witcher novels describe geralt as ugly
>they cast fucking henry cavill

>>723230397 (OP)
IT'S HENRY!!

>>723230397 (OP)
>Do people really seethe at Rpgs with set protagonists?
No? Where did you get that idea? Are you arguing with a made up person that only exists in your head?

At what age do you think henry sucked cock for the first time?

>>723230914
>reddit spacing
>using the tumblr "imagine doing X" buzzphrase
Lurk more

>>723230397 (OP)
I dislike Geralt.

>>723233090

It's an extremely common belief that if an Rpg doesn't have a character creator they don't consider it a real rpg.

Hell, even if it does have a CC they claim it's not an Rpg if it assigns any sort of backstory to you like fallout 4 or Cyberpunk did.

People want complete blank slates like Skyrim for some reason, and even in that one they seethe at being dragon born.

I've no idea why you guys try to gaslight. People cry non stop kcd is not an Rpg because you have to play as Henry and fallout 4 is not an Rpg because you have a baby and a voice.

>>723233292
WHO GIVES A SHIT WHAT SOMEONE CONSIDERS SOMETHING AN RPG

>>723230684
He’s also 15 years old in the gam

>>723233292
Maybe try playing a tabletop RPG and understand where the roots of video game rpg's are even from.

>>723230397 (OP)
>>723233292
>if it doesn't have CC it's not an rpg
I come to the conclusion this is true. It's more important than "choices" in dialogue.
Games with premade protagonist are adventure games, and there is nothing wrong with that.

>>723233471

Ah yes table top Rpgs where creepy lonely men play female characters and insert all their fetishes.
Thanks for proving people who hate Rpgs like Witcher and kcd are trans

>>723233738

See? Here's example of a tranny who thinks if a game doesn't let you create your female self insert it's not an rpg

Rpgs are based on tabletop rpgs and there are only so many elements that can translate into a video game, but creating a character is one of them. If a game doesn't let you create a character and make meaningful decisions about their traits, interactions with other characters, and their influence on the narrative, than its just an "adventure" game with some light rpg elements. Yes, that means jrpgs are not rpgs and its always been a misnomer. Dark souls is more of an rpg than any final fantasy game and that's just a fact

>>723231014
>using people as a metric of what people are thinking
yes

>>723230851
>Rpg character they didn't make in a character creator and suddenly they are incapable of roleplaying?
Yes. Same with movies and most forms of fiction: unless the MC is a straight one-for-one low IQ zoomers and later born Millennials cannot visualize themselves as that character.

>>723230397 (OP)
A lot of mechanics are poor implementations of things from tabletop RPGs, and some retards think those are all inherently good despite the fact that tabletop and video games are fundamentally different. Nothing's worse in an RPG than having a character talked at instead of talked to.

>>723230397 (OP)
Did you ever hear this complaint on /v/ or even 4chan in general? No? Then why the fuck did you come here with this question, retard?

>>723234081

So actors who are literally playing a role In a movie are actually in an "adventure game" despite literal roleplaying?

You troons are so weird

>>723235278

There's literally three people in this thread rsnting about how if you can't create the character it's not an rpg

How are you so sad you gaslight on 4chan when there are comments here proving you wrong

>>723234454
>using shitposters as metric
>the literal fags who are out for some culture war rage (you)s
Anon..... please.....

>>723230397 (OP)
If I can't make my own character, I am essentially forced to go with the shit visual design decisions of the dev. I'd rather apply my own shit taste.

>>723231254
mmmm yeah sorry dont care about your failed novel champ now lemme play some vidya

>>723236116
Whenever I see an OP with a weird hangup, I suddenly have the opposite opinion.

>>723233471
D&D was on the market for over a decade before you were even allowed to choose what kind of character you played.

>>723230397 (OP)
I prefer male set characters over custom characters 99% of the time because I just like following the story and narrative of a set protag over the much MUCH more generalized writing that comes with needing to account for custom characters.
All of my favorite moments in terms of game stories have been with set protagonists.

>>723235278
>>723236116
>>723237373
I don't trust opinions on /v/ because this place is infested with contrarians who will say anything as long as it's disagreeing with someone.

>>723230397 (OP)
Yes I don't play any rpg without custom character creation

>>723230397 (OP)
Yes.
Yes I absolutely seethe about it.
I played Witcher 1 and 2 and was somehow fine with it. I guess in Witcher 1 Geralt was a blank slate due to AMNESIA! so it kind of was my own character, and 2 was linear and less RPG-like so I didn't feel as invested in defining the character, but it was still a controlled enough world that I felt I had agency in making story decisions.

But when I played Witcher 3 it immediately bombarded me with
>OH remember Yennefer, some bitch you've never met?! Well you've gotta find her cause you love her so much!
>Look, it's Ciri you're adopted daughter you love so much that you must also find because you care about her!
And I hated it. It reminded me I always hated Triss and Dandelion, and only Zoltan in Witcher 1 felt like a character me the player befriended. But there were all these non-book characters that I actually enjoyed because Geralt met and formed a relationship with them when I was playing, not in a book or some youtube lore series.

Witcher 3 was all meaningless gobbledeshit to me the player, so I stopped playing it and Geralt is frozen for all time doing nothing.
Now I'm far warier with set-protagonists. And it's not coincidental that my patience with a writer's super special oh-so-important Player Character with their trauma and heckin friendos occurred during a civilisational trend of extremely shitty writing in every medium.

>>723233320
Nigger, have you ever seen a real 15 year old? They sure as hell don't have wrinkles. Henry is canonically twenty and looks like he's pushing thirty.

>>723238837
>I'm too stupid to understand any characterization that isn't literally me
What a weird thing to boast about.

>>723230397 (OP)
I used to care about character creators but I don't anymore.
Just have whoever as the protag I don't care.

>>723233292
no it isnt nigger

>>723238837
>so it kind of was my own character

Are you incapable of roleplaying a character tha'ts not "literally you"?
Chris Hemsworth seems to have no issue acting as Thor despite him not being a literal god of thunder.

>>723233738
this

>>723233834
the only reason why you get so unreasonably mad about this opinion is if you consider rpgs to be objectively superior to other genres. why would you think that?
theres nothing wrong with adventure games. just don't be surprised when rpg players aren't interested.

>>723241643
Only profoundly stupid people who don't understand the point of RPGs think video games need character creation to be an RPG.

>>723230397 (OP)
I dunno, most seething about playable characters in games seem to be from basic cuckservatives who cry they can't as a generic dude (i.e. themselves).
You know, the type that always votes against their economic interests, just to get back at trannies or some shit.
Basically you, the Amerifats reading this post.

>>723230397 (OP)
daily reminder Vavra got scared of journos so he went full message in 2

>>723241991
The point of RPGs is individualization and immersion into a game world. Just as a wizard plays differently from a fighter in combat, the same should apply during exploration and conversation. Maybe a computer game doesn't "need" character creation, but its such an odd choice to leave out that it makes me wonder why a game developer would do such a thing. A majority of the time its because the developer wants a specific story or for the main character to have a specific vibe and personality, entirely defeating the point of making an RPG in the first place.
This is all semantics anyway. The purpose of genre is for people to get a general understanding if a potential product will contain things they like. If we allow adventure games to be called RPGs, it only muddies the waters and makes it less clear if a gamer will actually like the product they're buying. This leads to strange and weird pseudo-genres like crpg, jrpg, etc. If people were clearer with their terminology this would not be an issue.

>>723238837
>I always hated Triss and Dandelion
What about Shani?

>>723242380
Woke oppression. I sympathize with him I get hit by it every day at work, you either fall in line or you get harassed and hated.

>>723242380
>>723242625
Vavra is a MAGA-tier chud here in Czechia. You would love him.

Which makes it all the weirder he went for all the homos stuff etc. in KCD2, yeah.

Guess politics dont always map cleanly across countries.

>>723242410
The point of RPGs is to facilitate gameplay within a role playing system. It's actually pretty easy to define under these terms but then people enter the conversation saying it needs "immersion" and "freedom" and "choices" which are just buzzwords than can describe a million different things.

>>723242410
Character creation works in tabletop because you literally speak for the character and have conversations and interactions in the world through the DM reacting to your choices. This fundamentally doesn't work in a video game and you end up with characters talking at you, and maybe a few canned line responses. There's never any depth to the interactions because everything needs to account the blank slate MC. It fundamentally undermines the whole point of am RPG, which is to interact to a world that reacts to you. Stats and numbers and character sheets aren't the point, they're just a means to get there.

>This is all semantics anyway. The purpose of genre is for people to get a general understanding if a potential product will contain things they like. If we allow adventure games to be called RPGs
Games like Deus Ex and KCD have set main characters. They also have lots of meaningful interactions and choices. That's the essence of an RPG. Role playing doesn't mean filling in a blank character sheet.

>>723243197
define a role playing system. im sorry but if nu-GoW is considered an RPG because it has level ups and experience points then it goes back to what I said about the genre lables being meaningless for everyone.

>>723243304
Its not just conversation though, it also applies to combat and exploration. The point of an RPG isn't "interacting with a world that reacts to you". That would make Breath of the Wild an RPG. It's a part of it, but the main thing is roleplaying. A Wizard can use Misty Step to enter a secret passage, which is something a Fighter wouldn't be able to do. This individualization is the core of RPGs in my opinion. In an idea RPG it should be extremely difficult to have a similar experience as someone else. Your own personal decisions about your character should drastically change gameplay.

>>723243724
>Its not just conversation though, it also applies to combat and exploration.
Conversation and interactions are inherently limited by blank slate characters. Combat and exploration work fine either way.
>This individualization is the core of RPGs in my opinion
Both of the examples I listed let you build skills and play the game in a multitude of ways.

>>723243880
>Conversation and interactions are inherently limited by blank slate characters
maybe when compared to tabletop, but have you ever heard of the concepts of progress and innovation? it should be the goal of rpg developers to close that gap a bit. and regardless its not very pro-role play to have a voiced set protagonist. instead of working in the spirit of the medium, those developers are rejecting it and not even trying. again, thats fine if its an adventure game, but its not what many rpg fans are looking for. at least developers like larian are trying to tap into that spirit, even if they aren't all the way yet.
>combat and exploration work fine either way
I disagree, at least depending on what you value. Maybe I could bend the game's systems to do a "mage" build for Geralt, but that doesn't change the fact the game expects me to play and treats me as mainly a warrior. It's part of the games plan to make me inhabit the character of Geralt, which again goes against the strengths of RPGs.

>>723243880
also I find conversations in set protagonist games to be much more limiting personally. set protagonist games have to worry about the set personality of the main character, and so limit responses that go outside of their vision. i find that more traditional RPGs are much better at allowing me to say what I actually want to say.

>>723244486
>but have you ever heard of the concepts of progress and innovation?
And one day they might not be limited, but we haven't reached that day yet. Blank slate characters are terrible for dialogue and interactions in games.
>pro-role play to have a voiced set protagonist.
That's like saying a themed module with preset backgrounds isn't really role playing in table top. It's just fundamentally wrong.
>but its not what many rpg fans are looking for.
"RPG fans" who think character creation and not interactions with the world are idiots that don't understand what RPGs are about and should not be catered to.
>I disagree
Instead of addressing the two examples I gave, you chose to instead talk about The Witcher, which is just a shitty game. Try talking about the 2 examples I gave.

>>723244648
Show me an example of conversations in a quest in what you think is a "traditional RPG" that has more depth and options than the dialogue options you have in the monastery quest in KCD. Don't speak in generalizations, give a real example compared to the one I gave.

>>723243724
Yes, GoW has RPG elements in it, but it is generally not considered an RPG because those elements are not the beating heart of the game's systems. But that doesn't matter, because it's not like anyone is going to directly compare it to something like KCD regardless of its genre label.
Role playing does not mean the same thing as narrative roleplay which is the thing pesuds arguing this don't fucking understand. Ultima and old school D&D isn't an RPG by the modern westerner definition because it doesn't pass the vibe check of... whatever you feel like it should be.

>>723244823
>Blank slate characters are terrible for dialogue and interactions in games.
I just flat out disagree. Or rather, I believe that for an RPG, having a blank slate and a variety of moral options is better than having punchy dialogue.
>Try talking about the 2 examples I gave.
ok, let's talk about them. from an objective point of view, what does making the protagonist JC Denton or Henry add to the game? You probably have plenty of answers. And I bet none of them have anything to do with roleplaying. Allowing a "blank slate" protagonist, so to speak, would only improve the "RPG-ness" of the game. Maybe it would hurt other areas, but that has nothing to do with the purely semantic genre conversation we are having right now.
>That's like saying a themed module with preset backgrounds isn't really role playing in table top
I would say its less of a pure roleplay in general. Especially the "preset backgrounds" part. I'm rereading Rise of the Runelords and while they give suggestions about how you ended up starting the adventure, they don't presume too much about who the PCs are and why they do what they do. They may try and lead you along a path, but they again don't try and dictate who they are. There's a big difference.
>interactions with the world
again, thats not the only thing. by this logic Breath of the Wild is an RPG. are you willing to make that claim?

>>723244975
I confess, I haven't played KCD, because it didn't look interesting to me, so I could not accurately compare. though do notice we switched from "limiting" to "depth and options". tho ig if I have to give you an example, I would say the Kingdom rank up quests in Pathfinder: Kingmaker, I remember those being surprisingly satisfying roleplay wise. If I have to give a specific example, then I would say the Culture rank up quests, because they were the weakest in terms of sign-posting to you about the "correct" option, but it was still more satisfying than conversations in something like MassEffect

>>723245156
it is funny you say that because I mostly play OSR these days

>>723246026
>I just flat out disagree.
That's fine, but you're wrong because you think shallow options are more important than reactivity and interactions.
>what does making the protagonist JC Denton or Henry add to the game?
It makes them actual people with connections to the world and people and prevents all interactions from being shallow one size fits all "conversations" where characters talk at you and you occasionally reply with 1 line.
>And I bet none of them have anything to do with roleplaying
Wrong. You just mistakenly believe that more shallow interactions is what makes role playing good.
>thats not the only thing. by this logic Breath of the Wild is an RPG.
No, it just has immsim design philosophy which itself was borne of wanting to copy the actual choice of RPGs in terms of gameplay. And that's a good thing. BotW doesn't have any character building or player choice for quests, so it's not an RPG.
>I haven't played KCD
Then I'm not going to keep arguing while you bring up games that have far shallower interactions and dialogue.

>>723230397 (OP)
>I CANT CREATE MY FEMALE SELF INSERT
>troons
>Because they are male?
No that's not it. In role-playing games they should be characterized as canon heterosexual men with at least 3 beautiful girls to romance. Bonus points for womanizing and killing flamboyant/gay rivals/antagonists.

KCD2 ruined Henry, and therefore the entire game when they did this. Was even worse than when Mass Effect 3 pulled this gay retcon stuff.

>>723246610
well then we come at an impasse. while I can see being peeved by "shallow options" its strange to pair that complaint with "it makes them actual people". but I'm sure you have your reasons. I think we can come to a compromise here: while I would prefer if there was full character creation I consider Gothic to be more RPG than action adventure. considering that I can empathize with your perspective.
while some people in this thread seem to think that "certain people's preferences should not be catered to" I am taking this all less seriously, again genre is entirely arbitrary. I would prefer living in a world where people used words correctly, but we've been in this bubble for awhile, so I'm already trained to be more discerning when it comes to which games actually deserve my attention. its a minor annoyance really when we have strange soup genres like crpg. 'metroidvania' is another annoying term.

>>723230397 (OP)
I fucking hate character creators. I miss iconic expertly designed characters that are instantly recognizable. Vs some shitty pastiche of mustaches and scars, and stupid hair that clips through the armor.

>>723247301
>while I can see being peeved by "shallow options" its strange to pair that complaint with "it makes them actual people".
It's not strange. I don't think the important part of RPGs is lots of shallow options. I know it's about choices and reactivity, which are lacking when you have to account for any blank slate character with no roots or ties to anything.

>>723247680
perhaps I'm more amicable to the "blank slate" because the majority of games create characters I have no desire to play as. at least with a blank slate character I can create someone who is much closer to my preferences. if more games had protagonists like raistlin, perhaps I would be less interested in blank slate games. its always good to check your biases.
alternatively, you get the worst world where developers make intentionally bland protagonists with no personality so that everyone can feel "included".

>>723230397 (OP)
RPGs with set protaganist pretty much all have way worse RP and are way more story focused. Which is a bad thing for any good RPG. CDPR games exemplify this, KCD and warhorse are a CDPR clone studio.

>>723242729
>Which makes it all the weirder he went for all the homos stuff etc.
Didn't the studio get bought by THQ or something? All the DEI shit in 2 was probably mandated from above.

>>723230397 (OP)
i did not payed to play kcd2, dropped the game half way in second map (failed musa trail, unninstaled and watched the rest with skipping on yt gameplay run, nothing of value was lost)
the best chalenge game throw at you is when you find most numerous army outpost
still baby mode on hardest dificulty because belladona poison exist (300% hp dmg in 40 sec)